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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Keith Scott's Family Releases Cell Video of Shooting; Charlotte Curfew at Midnight for Second Straight Night; Protesters Marching In Atlanta And Charlotte; Charlotte Curfew At Midnight For Second Straight Night; Justin Carr's Family Speaks Out; Donations To Carr's Family: Gofundme.com/2qtyhvwk; Police Video Fallout; Hillary Clinton Set To Visit Charlotte Sunday; Keith Scott's Family Releases Cell Video Shooting; Charlotte's Mayor Speaks. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 23, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:10] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
We begin with the first video we've seen in the killing of the Keith Lamont Scott in North Carolina. It's not police body cam or dashcam video, although that exists. It hasn't been made public. But today, the family released video Scott's wife took with her cell phone showing the moments before and after the shooting.
As you will hear police officers repeatedly yell at Scott to drop the gun. The family maintains there was no gun, that Scott was just sitting in his truck waiting for his son to come home from school. Today, a source close to the investigation says the gun that police say they recovered was loaded and had fingerprint, blood and DNA that matched up with Scott's.
Now, it's important to note, though, that the forensic evidence that doesn't prove Scott was armed when he was killed. The bottom line: four days after Keith Lamont Scott was shot and killed, there are still more questions than answers.
Randi Kaye tonight on the latest.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video is two minutes and 12 seconds and it's hard to watch. The tape begins with a standoff between Charlotte police officers and Keith Lamont Scott. His wife Rakia Scott is recording the video on her cell phone.
RAKIA SCOTT, WIFE OF KEITH LAMONT SCOTT: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.
KAYE: A second later though, you hear police shout about a gun. Listen carefully.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Gun. Gun. Drop the gun. Drop the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun.
KAYE: The shaky video shows police surrounding Scott's white vehicle. What you don't see at this vantage point is Scott himself. Twenty seconds into it, another firm warning from Scott's wife that
her husband does not have a gun but that he does have a traumatic brain injury.
RAKIA SCOTT: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI.
KAYE: A few seconds later, she tells officers her husband just took his medicine, that he's not going to do anything to them but the situation escalates.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Let me get (EXPLETIVE DELETED) baton over here.
KAYE: Rakia Scott walks closer, telling her husband to get out the vehicle.
RAKIA SCOTT: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out the car.
KAYE: Police can be heard on video yelling to Scott to drop a gun at least nine times.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun. Drop the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun.
RAKIA SCOTT: Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
RAKIA SCOTT: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun, drop the gun.
KAYE: Then about fifty-seconds after he was told to put his hands up police fired, but not before one final warning.
RAKIA SCOTT: Keith, Keith, Keith, don't you do it.
KAYE: Four shots can be heard on the video, though the actual shooting is off camera. It's still unclear what Mrs. Scott was trying to tell her husband when she shouted "don't do it".
Watch those final moments again.
RAKIA SCOTT: Keith, Keith, Keith, don't you do it.
KAYE: Still up for debate if Keith Scott had a weapon as police claimed and what prompted officers to shoot? His wife clearly shocked by what she witnessed,
RAKIA SCOTT: Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? He better not be (EXPLETIVE DELETED) dead.
KAYE: She moves closer until the camera can see her husband on the ground, unsure if he's alive or dead. Rakia Scott is stunned
RAKIA SCOTT: He better live, I swear he better live. Yep. He better live. He better (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live.
KAYE: On the video, it's hard to tell if the gun police say they saw is anywhere on the ground. But look at this photo acquired by Charlotte police. The chief says it shows what appears to be a handgun on the pavement at Scott's feet. The photo was clearly taken after the video since crime seen tape not seen in the video is up.
When asked about the gun being in the photo but not clearly in the video, a spokesman for the city of Charlotte told CNN, quote, "It is part of the investigation and a question for the state investigation board."
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: As you know that fatal shooting by police set off three nights of protest. The first two nights were more chaotic and at times violent while last night was much calmer demonstrations.
Boris Sanchez has been reporting in the middle of the protest since they started. I want to check in with him now in Charlotte to see how things are going tonight.
What's the latest in?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson.
Yes, this is a very, very different crowd than we've seen the past three nights here in Charlotte. We're outside the Omni Hotel right now where about 48 hours ago, things got completely out of hand. There was chaos on the street.
Right now, the crowd is much slimmer. There are much fewer people here than there were even last night when there was a prayer vigil here. Right now, these artists are actually writing the names of African-American men who've been involved in police shoots over the past few years.
The crowd is also very different. There are a lot more church groups, religious leaders, I've seen several prayer circles, people hugging each other and talking very calmly. I've also seen a lot of people walking up to the National Guard that's parked right here outside the Omni Hotel and shaking their hands, thanking them for their service as well.
You've actually see, just down there, there is a prayer circle going on right now. So, it's a very different crowd.
I can also say that this crowd is noticeably younger. I think partly because it is the weekday a lot of families have come out. I spoke to a mom who brought her six kids with her, with signs to stand on the corner. The tone here is very different. It's much more somber. As you can tell, there isn't any chanting going on. There isn't any
march going on. And there are fewer people out here. The hope is that as we get later into the night, this kind of tone will continue and the protest will remain peaceful, and we won't see a repeat of what we saw two nights ago which was just absolute bedlam here on the streets of Charlotte -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Boris, thanks very much.
It's a different scene tonight in Atlanta. I want to go to Martin Savidge who's there with a crowd of protesters who are marching.
Explain where you are, what you are seeing.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Described as a day of protest, Anderson. We're just outside Olympic Centennial Park. This is a major landmark not just for the city, but also for the nation here. This protest is organized under the umbrella of the Georgia NAACP, but there are many other groups that are here.
At least 25 different organizations, everything from Black Lives Matter to the Unitarian Church. It's a diverse crowd, but it's a very firm crowd. They are fired up. Clearly very angry as a result of the events that have taken place this week in Charlotte and in Tulsa, several hundred here marching.
They won't say exactly where they are going to go. They do say they are headed eventually to the King Center. It's about two miles away. They also have -- there is going to be an undisclosed location where they will gather and attempt to do something.
The concern for Atlanta police is they may try to block a major highway or a major thoroughfare. That is something the police say they will not allow to happen -- Anderson.
COOPER: Do you have any sense of numbers? On the left-hand side of the screen we also have a helicopter shot from our affiliate. So -- but it is hard to get a sense of numbers.
SAVIDGE: Right. I mean, initially, it looked like when they started at the civil rights museum, maybe 200 to 300 people. They have been hinting that they are going to be joined by more people strategically placed along the way. That would be people maybe at Olympic Centennial Park, maybe who will be at the King Center, maybe in between.
So, the crowd is expected to grow. It is a mixed crowd, not just racially but by age. There are people who are demonstrating back in the days of the NAACP movement, there's a youth movement as well. And that's really part of the symbolism.
That's why they go from the Civil Rights Museum to the King Center to show that there is a link of the events of today to events of the past, and it is all based on race -- Anderson.
COOPER: Martin Savidge, we'll continue to check with you. Joining me now is former LAPD officer, David Klinger, and also
criminologist, CNN law enforcement and former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, Cedric Alexander, CNN political commentator Van Jones, and former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates.
David, let me start with you. In video that the family of Mr. Scott released, we don't see the actual shots or even the gun video. For the first time, we are able to hear the officers repeatedly saying "put down the gun". You hear them shouting about dropping the gun.
It is important to note that a loaded gun was according to police recovered from the scene.
What do you see in this video? What stands out to you? Because the wife, we should also point out, is saying tat he does not have a gun in this video?
DAVID KLINGER, CRIMINOLOGIST: Start out with the wife's statement, that's really irrelevant to the police officers in terms of what they're seeing if they're seeing something different, if they've already determined that he's got a gun by seeing one. What she says they have got better information.
Now, in another situation perhaps, where the officers don't know what's going on, they can't see where his hands might be and she's saying he doesn't have a gun, that would be something they have to put into the thought cycle.
One other thing that really struck me was the amount of time that passed between when the video started and when the shots were fired, and as your reporter mentioned the multiple commands to drop the gun. And so, this wasn't one of those situations that happened very, very rapidly. This was one that took a little bit of time to build up.
Another thing that is interesting to me that I don't quite understand yet is how it is that the suspect traversed the area from the vehicle that he was apparently sitting in to the one point where he fell. And so -- that took a few seconds and so we don't really know what was going on at that point because as you noted earlier, the camera is being jostled. So, it's really difficult to assess.
[20:10:02] What I would say is there are still a huge number of questions. Why are the officers there? Why did they deploy in the locations that they deploy? Why is it one officer said something about getting a baton? The wife said something about, don't let him break the windows.
So, I'm trying to understand that they have a tactical plan to try to extract him? So, there's a lot of unanswered questions and I think that will come when we have access to the investigative case file with the radio broadcast in all likelihood and the officer's statements.
Cedric, I mean, you also hear the wife saying the last moment to her husband, don't -- I think to her husband, I think she says, "Keith, don't do it." I'm wondering what you see in this. I mean, everyone sort of sees things differently. I'm wondering what stands out to you.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER PRES., NATL. ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: That is very true, everyone does see things a little differently in this case, and I don't know who she's talking to when she makes that statement.
But here's something I need to be very clear about in this. This video that we're looking at and viewing all day is a piece of the puzzle. What's going to be interesting during the course of this investigation is also to see the video footage that the city or the police department has possession of.
We have to take all of this footage, put it together, couple that with officer's statements, witness statements, any other footage that may be out there that we are not aware of. You have to look at the physical evidence on the scene, the forensics. All of this is going to come together and really tell a story as to what occurred, when, where and how.
And in this particular video, I'll tell you what does stick out to me here, Anderson, is that none of us on this side of that video can see a gun. So, that doesn't mean it was not one there. It's just that if we're looking for one, this video doesn't give us that. But maybe another piece of footage somewhere may be able to do so.
COOPER: Van, I mean, if officers were able to hear Scott's wife and we don't really know all the officers could hear her. Once they know that there was a possible brain injury and he had taken -- I'm wondering should had have effected the situation at all? There's also the question of the still photo, where you see some sort of object in the foreground. I couldn't identify it as gun. It could have been a glove. I don't know what it was.
But in the video, it doesn't seem so show up. What do you make of what you are seeing?
VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, first of all, you know, it's just hard breaking to see this stuff over and over again. And I hope that we just -- this doesn't become a new normal where with we just get desensitized. You know, here is someone who lost their life, here's a wife, you know, pleading and we almost just see that as something almost to be clinical about. It is a horrible tragedy.
The reality is this video cuts both ways. It's -- this is a piece of a puzzle. What I want to speak to is that when you have people who have traumatic brain injury, you are saying TBI, TBI. When you have people with mental health issues, law enforcement needs to be better trained to talk people down rather than shoot them down.
All too often, people who have mental health issues wind up on the wrong end of these incidents and police, you know, go into a particular pattern with it. Verbal command. Verbal command. Verbal command.
The command is not working and they start moving up the ladder force often to deadly force, when someone else in the neighborhood might be able to talk that person down. So, that could be an issue here. We just don't know if there is really a gun or not.
And let me say one last thing, for a normal person. You know, if you just -- they say, well, listen, the cops are saying drop the gun, there must be a gun. There could be a misunderstanding. Then they say, well, they found a gun.
What you have to remember is in the African American community, the idea of a throw-down gun is just as normal as anything else. When there is -- when the shooting goes wrong, there are some law enforcement through the years have carried a throw-down gun, a gun you drop at the scene. And that is something that people are familiar with.
Just the fact that police say there was a gun there does not mean to a lot of people that there was a gun there. So, we need much more information than we're getting. And then hiding the actual video is not helping.
But this video could cut either way. We need more facts.
COOPER: Laura, I just want to get your perspective. The sheriff said that the video he had seen didn't show anything definitive about whether there was a gun being pointed. This new video doesn't seem to change that and we don't even see Mr. Scott.
What about this video raises questions for you or answers questions?
LAURA COATES, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, as a prosecutor, I look at this and say, look, this is very emotional and provocative. But just the facts here. What don't I see? What is going to be my inquiry?
And as a prosecutor I'm looking at it and saying, if there was a gun there, he may have been entitled to have a gun in this particular state. I know he had a record, may not have been able to lawfully have one. But having a gun is not the end of a prosecutor's inquiry.
[20:15:01] It's whether or not these officers felt as though their lives were threatened and whether he was going to use lethal force against them to either justify a use of force or use of force on them, or otherwise.
Just because he had a gun whether it's on the ground or on his person does not automatically make me think that he used it in a that was going to be brandished or threaten them. That's what neither video that we're seeing right now shows us or the one we haven't seen but described by the sheriff. And that is where my eyewitness testimony comes in.
And that's why I don't really understand, Anderson, why the video from the officers hasn't been released. These are but static moments in time that are incomplete and inclusive but would help us to figure out whether or not the bigger picture is.
COOPER: Well, let me just try to answer that because I asked David last night. And his explanation I want to put it to you and see what you have to say about it, from a legal standpoint is that in a investigation going on, you don't want witnesses being affected by seeing the video, changing their story or in some way being impacted by seeing this video and having a video out there, same with officers. You don't necessarily want them seeing the video and changing their stories.
What do you make of that, Laura?
COATES: Well, to the first point the chief of police has already come out and given a press conference and describes with specificity what he sees in this video.
So, having us had the opportunity to confirm that what he has described is what you need seen on the video to me seems a little bit odd. If I'm already told what it is, can't I see it for myself, that's number one.
Number two, yes, it's true that prosecutors routinely will tell officers, look, let's not open investigation completely. Let's not have all of our evidence there and we're trying to ascertain the suspects and what they know. But in this situation, it is being used in a hypocritical way for the reason you just said, Anderson.
The officers say that you not want to compromise the investigation by having witnesses recall the video and not recall the actual incident. Yet officers are allowed to have a uniformity of memory when it comes to having watched the video over and over again and decide how best to proceed, and it cannot be used as a doubled edged sword when it comes to the justice system.
COOPER: We've got to take a break. We're going to hear more from our panel coming up. Just ahead, I'll speak with the public defender who's worked very hard to calm the chaos during protest this week, literally standing between police and protesters in the midst of tear gas. He says people are hurting and no one else needs to die or be arrested. We'll talk to him.
Also coming up, an arrest in the shooting of protester Justin Carr who was shot and killed during the first night of protest. We'll tell you who police say actually pulled the trigger. We'll talk to his family about their reaction, ahead.
COOPER: We are keeping an eye on two cities tonight. Protesters marching in Atlanta. That's on the left hand side of your screen. And on the right, Charlotte, a fourth night in protest. A curfew again in effect for midnight tonight.
Now, if you have been watching the coverage of the protests in Charlotte this week, you might have noticed this man there among the protesters and -- between, I should say, protesters and police, putting himself in the middle of a very volatile situation, trying to diffuse it, trying to help do what he can.
That is Toussaint Romain. His pictures are from Wednesday, the most probably chaotic night of the protest. Romain is a public defender in Charlotte. He joins me now.
Toussaint, thanks so much for being with us. It has been incredibly tough week in the city of Charlotte obviously. I'm wondering what you are seeing out there tonight, what the mood is like.
TOUSSAINT ROMAIN, PUBLIC DEFENDER: Well, you know, Anderson. Thanks for having me.
But the mood is one of somberness. It is one of hurt. It is one of, still we want to know more but it's peaceful. There aren't any protesters in the streets necessarily breaking or hurting anyone. National Guard is here and they are on their knees. They are sitting on the curb. They are relaxed in that atmosphere.
There is not the tension that we're waiting for an explosion or shot to be heard around the world. We're really just here demonstrating.
As you can see my friends back here, they come and they say, listen, we want answers. We're here to stand peacefully. We're here to show that we're exercising our constitutional rights because we're upset, but because we're upset, we're also going to do it peacefully.
And so, the peaceful nature of it is for me is the biggest thing. I'm really glad this is the way Charlotte is operating. I'm really proud of my city for doing it last night as well in the midst of a state of emergency, we were enacting in that emergency. So, in that way, it's been good but we still have a long way to go.
COOPER: Let me ask you just from a personal standpoint. I mean, I said this last night on the air when you are being interviewed I think by Boris Sanchez.
You know, I have huge respect for public defenders across the country. You all are overworked. Understaffed, underfunded, underpaid and really have an impossible task. For you to work during the day at your job as public defender and then spend nights on the streets standing in risky situations between police, it's very volatile. What personally draws you out there?
ROMAIN: Yes, it's not just me, though, Anderson. There's Eddie Thomas and from my office. Emmy Walworth, Elizabeth Gerber, a lot of others who have been out here.
And what draws this is not the paycheck, it's not the hours, it's not the work. It's the heart for the people. My heart is always pounding for the people that I'm representing. So, I'll continue to serve as long as my heart is pounding.
And so, when you're passionate or have a purpose. It doesn't really matter what gets in your way, or if even if you are tired. This is my fourth night out here. I've been up to about 3:00 or 4:00 every morning, and I'm tired. But you know what? I'm going to keep going because I'm driven by the
fuel that knowing that we can make a difference today and we will improve things for tomorrow. And so, in that sense, in that way I believe we're getting better and I think that's what keeps me going.
COOPER: As you know, Mr. Scott's widow released a video that she took of the incident. I'm wondering, you know the justice system well. You know, there are folks involved in the investigation saying look we don't want to release the police videos because we don't want witnesses to change their testimony or be influenced by what they see in a video.
Do you think the videos should be released quickly? I mean, they will all obviously be released at some point. But should they be released quickly?
ROMAIN: And the interesting thing about that Anderson is there are two courts. There's a court of law and a court of public opinion. In the court of law is where I work on an every day basis, and that requires the facts. But in the court of public opinion, it's simply about emotions, opinions and those type of the things.
So, in the video, which is a fact is not shown and the video is the only unbiased fact, you can't change the video.
[20:25:02] And if the video was not shown, then those facts are left to be imagined, and that takes us to the court of public opinion. If we don't have the facts, we're going to fill in the blanks. And in our community, in all of our communities, we know that people can do and say the wrong things.
And because there's been such a mistrust, because there's been so many problems in the police force and so many problems with the police covering things up, i.e. Charleston, South Carolina, we imagined the worst. And I think that's what's happening in this court of public opinion, because our officials are not releasing the video.
I would simply say this, the video of wife I believe is one piece of this puzzle. There are only two other pieces to the puzzle. There are only two other videos. One is the body-worn cameras from the officers and possibly the DMVRs, the digital mobile video recording that the videos from the vehicles.
Why not release those? Why not release those? Why not release those? And to say don't shoot him, and as you hear don't do it, that is not the wife speaking to what's happening inside the car. That is our -- it makes sense to see if an officer is taking his weapon out and pointing it -- don't do it. That's where that makes sense.
So, if we have this one video that says, you know what, there is a lot of distrust here, there's a lot of open questions, a lot of unanswered questions, but we need the cops to show their side. You can't have one team show their cards, the other team not showing their card, but then to have the chief characterize this video in a way that seems favorable to them just doesn't add up. If the video is what they claim for it to be, then release it, and
allow the people to see it. And that is what we did two or three years with Jonathan Pharrell. We addressed the issue. We got right to the crux of it and the community was at peace in that sense.
And so, tonight, the protests very more about trust within our police department. Regaining that trust within our community and really building those relationships and those bridges. And to our leaders, if you are serious about doing that, then do it, because your community is here. Your community needs you as the leaders to lead us, not just to protect those that you want to.
COOPER: Toussaint Romain, again, I just think what you've done last couple of nights is extraordinary. I appreciate talking to you tonight. Thank you so much.
ROMAIN: Thanks for having me. Take care.
COOPER: Just ahead, a suspect has been charged in the shooting death two nights ago -- two nights ago during the Charlotte protest. The victim Justin Carr was 26 years old. I'll talk to his mom and his brother after we take a short break and tell you the latest of what we know about the person accused of shooting him.
We continue to watch the protests in Atlanta and Charlotte. We'll be right back.
[20:30:38] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN AC360 ANCHOR: Well there are protest tonight in Atlanta, and in Charlotte North Carolina, let's check with Brian Todd who is on the streets in Charlotte.
Things looking pretty calm tonight there Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So far, so good Anderson. Yeah it's a peaceful protest going on here, this is people marching down Tryon Street here in Charlotte. Started I'd say probably a half hour age.
Estimating, there are between 100 and 200 people in this ground right here, marching down Tryon Street in Charlotte. There is spirited as it was last night. And a recurring theme here on the streets. They want those police body camera and dashcam tapes released. They have been chanting it. They were chanting it just a couple of minutes ago.
And they have signs now to that effect. So they are really, you know, they're really into that message tonight. They do not trust the police. They do not trust the police's declination of the Lamont Scott shooting and they want those videotapes released. See if they come down this street?
TODD: All right, yeah, you want to say something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NFL does not care about us. TODD: OK, sir thank you, thank you. So Anderson, you know, they -- we thought they were going to make a turn and now they are going down this way. And again a lot of distrust on the streets today because of the issue of the police not releasing those videotapes.
COOPER: All right. Brian Todd, we'll check in with you shortly.
A 21-year-old suspect has been charged in a fatal shooting during the second night of protests in Charlotte. He was taken to custody this morning charged with murder, he's accused of shooting 26-year-old Justin Carr who died from his injuries yesterday, that's just in there.
Witnesses have given conflicting accounts of what they saw. A chaotic scenes certainly down by just clear bystanders at the scene trying to help Mr. Carr.
Joining me Vivian Carr, Justin's mom and Kenneth Johnston, his brother. Vivian and Ken, I'm so sorry for your loss. What you do want people to know Vivian about your son Justin, what kind of man was he?
VIVIAN CARR, JUSTIN CARR'S MOTHER: Justin was a good fella. He was of course my baby boy. And he's also -- was a father to be. His son is due October 28th and he was so excited about becoming a first time dad. You know, he wanted to teach him how to play sports just as he did. You know, and he played Justin -- he was a key at heart, he play all sports. Everybody in the neighborhood knew Justin. And he was always the one that was aggravates everybody. Talking, talking, talking, you know.
COOPER: He liked to talk.
CARR: He is always -- yes he liked to talk well. When he was younger he didn't. He was quiet. And then when he got to junior high that's when he started talking. He was a little shy kid that didn't talk much. But we got a little older about 14-15 is when the talking started.
COOPER: Kenneth, what do want -- how do you want people to remember your brother?
KENNETH JOHNSTON, JUSTIN CARR'S BROTHER: He was a realist. And if there was something that was in his heart, he wasn't afraid to speak out about it or defend whatever stance he had. He was a walking platform on a number of different things. Regardless of the situation that took place here in Charlotte, the great city of Charlotte in which we were all raised, Justin never had any problem speaking out about any particular situation, cause or anything near and dear to his heart.
COOPER: Vivian, I understand that Justin was on his way to work on Wednesday evening when he stopped by the protest. Did you know that he was there?
CARR: Yes, he called me at work and asked me was I coming down. He wanted me to come down with him. But I told him I was still working late and he stopped by, you know, to do the protest and, you know, I told him, that I didn't think it was a good idea because, you know, it was getting dangerous but he told me that it was fine. You know, why he was -- you know, he was down, and he say this, "There's nothing going on right now, ma. You know, I'm fine."
And he was like -- I just want to come down here and, you know, and help out and be a part of the protest. You know, he said, you know, his grandmother always told him about the story when she marched for Martin Luther King, so he was like, he wanted to tell, you know, his granny that, you know, was part of marching too. You know, be a legend too, like she was. And therefore it's really told her, and you know, she went -- he went and make a stand too, but he didn't make it out. So is just, I just want everybody to know my son was a good kid.
[20:35:10] COOPER: The strength that you are showing, I mean being able to even talk about him so in the midst of your grief. It is just extraordinary.
CARR: Yes, because I know that he died for a cause.
COOPER: Kenneth, there has been arrests made. I know there were a lot of unanswered questions about the shooting. There still are. Do you have any sense now what if any motive there was? Do you have any idea? Was there a motive at all do you think?
JOHNSTON: We have some -- again, you know, huge, remarkable efforts from the city of Charlotte. Everything that is going on with Charlotte, it is called a total disarray. And as Justin would also state had would he still been here, we don't want these reckless acts to diminish the overall image of our great city.
And in terms of the cause or the motive behind what took place that caused me to lose my youngest brother, we have a strong investigation under way. We have great support from the detectives that have contact with us, that have constantly been in contact with us since the news was first brought out. In terms of any specifics? No.
COOPER: Vivian, I know you posted on Facebook after you learned of Justin's death that you wanted everyone who was protesting to do it peacefully. That your -- that ...
CARR: Yeah. That is what he would have wanted too.
COOPER: That is what he would have wanted. What would you want to say to protesters now?
CARR: I want to say everybody, just be peaceful about it. It's not about looting and killing. It's about making a stand, being peaceful. Coming together as the city. You know, as me everybody knows my Facebook post. Aalways end in love, love, love.
And that's what I hear hours I always taught to know my sons to, you know, respect and love everybody. So any speculations at what -- like, it was something going on with him and somebody else, that's not -- I don't want anybody to think that's true, because my son was not a bad person. He was not a mean person in my kind of way.
COOPER: Vivian and Kenneth again, I'm just so sorry for your loss and I do appreciate you coming in and talking about Justin and telling us about him. Thank you.
CARR: You're welcome.
COOPER: Strength of a mom who's just lost her son, being able to talk about him is just extraordinary. One more thing about Justin we think you should know. He's giving life to others right now. His heart, liver and lungs were donated to patients on transplant waiting lists in Charlotte and Ohio.
Much more ahead from Charlotte where there is growing pressure release video of Keith Scott's shooting. We've been hear before certainly in other police shootings. We'll look back at what happen in some other cases after police videos were made public.
Also the latest on protest happening right now in Atlanta and Charlotte of course. We'll be right back.
[20:40:59] COOPER: Hillary Clinton is calling officials in Charlotte, North Carolina to release the police video of the killing Keith Scott. Clinton is planning to go to Charlotte on Sunday one day before faces Donald Trump on that debate stage on Monday.
Joe Johns joins me now with the latest on that. What are you learning about this potential visit?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, among other things Anderson, this situation sort of points up the fact that big events like what's going on in Charlotte could be a catch 22 for presidential candidates. They risk criticism if they go, they risk criticism if they don't go. Case in point.
No sooner had Hillary Clinton said she was planning on going and Donald Trump saying he was considering it that the mayor Charlotte, North Carolina essentially came out and said thanks but no thanks. Listen.
COOPER: I think with we don't have that sound.
JOHNS: We don't have that sound. Essentially what the mayor was saying is that both candidates should delay their trips to her city, saying this is a stressful time. And that resources are limited.
Hillary Clinton today also tweeted out, calling on the police in Charlotte, North Carolina to release the police videotapes of the shooting. The Police Department responding that in fact this is now being looked at by the state bureau of investigation, and they will have the final say on whether to release the video. So why is Hillary Clinton hitting this so hard? She has talked about police use of force, police use of lethal force repeatedly on the campaign trail. And she's also tried to strike a balance, talking about the need to protect first responders. For his part Donald Trump has talked quite a bit now on the campaign trail about Charlotte as an issue of law and order and the need to protect, among others, the African-American who live in that city. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Joe, thanks very much.
And as we've reported the family of Keith Scott has released footage showing the moments before and after he was killed by police. It is a difficult cellphone video to watch that his wife took. Doesn't offer many answers or final answers. The police have body cam and dashcam videos as we've talked about that's not been released to the public. The family wants it to be.
This isn't the first time though there's been pressure for footage related to police shootings to be released. Now when the video has eventually comes out, sometimes it's a totally different story than the police accounts but that's not to only outcome. Here is Randi Kaye, and a warning, some of this video is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chicago, Illinois, October 2014. Teenager Laquan McDonald is shot and killed by police officer Jason Van Dyke. McDonald was shot 16 times. The officer claimed McDonald had a knife and refused to drop it. He said McDonald advanced towards him so he fired. Even after firing 16 shots the officer said McDonald tried to get up.
MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO: We will continue to take the necessary steps to build trust between the police and the residents in communities they serve.
KAYE: That may be easier said than done since the video of the shooting released more than a year after the shooting death tells a very different story than the officers account. It was only released after enormous public pressure and a judge's court order. Dashcam video shows the victim with a knife but walking away from police. Before he shot despite what the officer said happened, McDonald never faces Van Dyke.
In a video the officer fires more than a dozen times after McDonald was already limp on the ground. The officer was charged with first- degree murder and is awaiting trial. Still the city erupted in protests.
Ferguson, Missouri. August 2014. Michael Brown is shot and killed by a white Ferguson police officer. After a scuffle at the police car the officer said Brown charged him but eye witnesses disputed that. Violent protests broke out.
[20:45:00] Minutes before brown was shot dead, police say he stole cigarettes from a convenient store. Ferguson's police chief released video of that robbery, then made this stunning comment.
THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF: The initial contact between the officer and Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery. They were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic. That was it.
KAYE: That just fueled the angers. Protesters blamed police for releasing the vide only to make Michael Brown look like a criminal, especially when the officer may not have even been aware of the robbery. In the end the grand jury chose not to indict Officer Darren Wilson.
And now this, Tulsa Oklahoma, just last week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got (inaudible) something before now.
KAYE: Terence Crutcher, an unarmed black man with his hands in the air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is still walking. And not following commands.
KAYE: Suddenly shot and killed by police. Officer Betty Shelby said the victim reached inside his car window for what she fears was a gun. Authorities release video from a police chopper, and cruise her dashcam.
The video shows Crutcher walking a away with his hands up. But because of the angle, it's impossible to see if he reached in his car or the moment he was shot. The man's family says his window was rolled up. The officer has now been charged with manslaughter. police say they released the video to help keep the peace.
CHUCK JORDAN, TULSA POLICE DEPARTMENT CHIEF: We will not cover anything up. That is not in our DNA.
KAYE: They are hoping transparency with the community pays off.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Former LAPD David Klinger is with me again. Also joining the conversation CNN political commentator Attorney Bakari Sellers, and Boyce Watkins, founder of yourblackworld.com.
David, you advocate in public not to jump to conclusions and wait for all the evidence. As we've seen though the police statements don't exactly match with the videos shows in Chicago, wasn't until the video was release over 1 year after the shooting that actually was actually taken including the removal of the Chicago police superintended.
So, I mean you certainly hear the argument about releasing videos sooner than later.
DAVID KLINGER, CRIMINOLOGIST: I agree that they should be released. The Chicago situation was a vulnerable. You had a mayor who was running for reelection and he was interested in trying to win that election, so from my perspective he didn't want this to come out and he tried to bury it. So it is a politician who make that decision.
My argument about the time in other release or the video is very simple. Once the investigators have buttoned down all of their initial interviews of all the witnesses and perhaps the follow-ups, because you might want to go back and get follow-up interviews to identify -- excuse -- to clear up things that you'll identified in those initial interviews after you compared them. That's the time to go ahead and release the videos.
It makes no sense to wait for a year. But it might make a whole lot of sense to wait a week or two and we don't know what's going on behind the scenes in the investigation. And so I'm all asking people to do is wait until all of the investigative steps that need to be taken to make sure that no witness is going to have access to either another witness or to the video is done and then release it.
And I might also add very briefly, that if the police do not follow protocol and you get contaminated statements, that offers do the defense attorney a huge opportunity to go ahead and dismiss the entire ...
KLINGER: ... investigation from that one part. So let's just wait until question have it.
COOPER: Bakari, where do you stand on this?
BAKARI SELLER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well I mean -- I think first and foremost what's incomplete about Mr. Klinger's analysis here, is that there's one witness statement that can never be gotten by police because that witness is dead.
And so in these instances we always have this let's make sure we preserve, let's make sure we protect. But who is actually going to give the truth to the people who deserve it. Who is going to give the truth to the families? And this instance right now people just want justice. They just want to know what happened and the public import in this instance, it out weighs just some protection of individuals whom government may want to protect.
I think that it's right to call on the mayor, I think that it's right to call the chief of police, both of whom has show layers of incompetence and being lost at see throughout this portion here in Charlotte. To actually release the video so at least we understand what happens. Because at the end of the day Anderson all we want is justice and that dead man can't speak. So to Mr. Klinger's point, you're never going to have a complete investigation.
COOPER: Well, you know, boy it's interesting because there is obviously such distrust in a lot of communities toward the place in particularly can use of color. As we saw in Ferguson, we talked about in Randi's piece, video was released that Michael Brown that convenience store, and there was a lot of outrage at the time, because the perception was, well the police releasing that to try to influence the public's perception of Michael Brown. Where do you stand on if this video should be released sooner rather than later?
[20:49:58] BOYCE WATKINS, FOUNDER YOURBLACKWORLD.COM: Yeah, absolutely. People seem to forget that the police work for us. We pay our taxes. We pay their salaries. They are supposed to be here to serve and protect us. They're not serving us. They're serving themselves and that's a serious, serious problem.
My father Anderson was a police officer for 25 and he actually had to kill somebody on the job one time. And so I've seen all the points of view on this, in terms of police conduct, good conduct, and misconduct. And what you see is that you have a scenario where you have certain communities that are under a police state, where the rights of the officer are protected, almost always at the expense of the general public.
You cannot operate a democracy in that way. It is not going to work. So this distrust is correctly placed. It's due to extensive, extensive misconduct. Officers thinking they're above the law and this doesn't change, it's only going to get worse. And it may hit a tipping point. We've got to be real careful.
COOPER: We've got to take a quick break. We're going to continue the discussion later on. We're going to -- we'll be right back.
COOPER: The family of Keith scot, who was fatally shot by police on Tuesday, today released video that Scott's wife took as police fatally shot her husband. In the statement, they say they released the video in the name of truth and transparency and it's just one step in their quest to find the truth.
Back with David Klinger, Bakari Sellers, and Boyce Watkins. You know, David, I wonder how much of a difference does it makes that the officer who shot Mr. Scott was African-American. I wonder if any you think you could have on investigation or the public's response.
KLINGER: I really don't know, one of the interesting things is since I have in the law enforcement about 35-years ago one of the calls for reform was to increase diversity. And now we have increased diversity, but we still have the issue. So I really don't know whether the race of the shooter will matter in this case, I have no clue.
COOPER: Bakari, what do you think? I mean in the death by police shootings that have caused probably some of the biggest controversies, the biggest outrage, the officer has almost always been white, not black, as he in this case.
SELLERS: Well, I think it matters about the victim, and what we've seen is the trend of these victims being African-American males. You know, somebody's going to have to ask this officer why there were four officers around with their guns pointed out, and he was the only one who fired the shot.
I mean if you look down in Charleston, one of the things that stuck out to me was not only did Michael Slager need to be indicted, but you also needed to indict his African-American partner who was there, who signed off on a false incident report.
[20:55:02] So, I don't think it matters. What matters to me is these victims and -- I mean that the video should have been released a along time ago, and we're here still talking about it. The community wants to see it. Until that happens, Anderson, we're going to have people who are still out here fighting for justice and thirsting for leadership.
COOPER: Boyce, the other side of this, is, you know, there are leaks coming out of the police department about fingerprints, Mr. Scott's fingerprints on the gun and other evidence that they see was found. That's being leaked out. And I guess that adds to the mistrust of people who say, well, if there are selective leaks, then why shouldn't all the evidence, all the video be out there?
WATKINS: Well, I think that's a great point. I mean, the truth is supposed to set you free. I think there should always be room for the truth in these conversations. You know, every shooting is different, every situation needs to be accounted for. But what I think is really important to understand, Anderson, as well, is that when people are protesting individual shootings, they're not just protesting that incident. They're protesting decades of community neglect, where drugs and guns replace jobs and education. They're protesting 40 years of extreme police violence toward people of color.
They're protesting the fact that there are entire communities that have been neglected by politicians, Democrats and Republicans alike, who never really came to check on these communities. So, you know, at the end of the day, I hope that people will see that this goes far deeper than just one incident. The incident is the trigger, but there are a lot of issues that we as a country have refused to deal with.
COOPER: Boyce Watkins, Bakari Sellers, David Klinger, thank you.
We have much more ahead in our second hour of "360." I'll talk to the mayor of Charlotte about the video that the Keith's family released today and how it's different from what she has already seen on those police videos that have not been released.
COOPER: Thanks very much for joining us for the second hour of "360." Tonight, there are growing calls for police dashcam and body cam video to be released in the fatal shooting of Keith Scott in Charlotte, North Carolina.
[21:00:06] Scott's family does want that video to be made publish, instead many of the protesters. You're looking at live pictures from Charlotte right now.
Today, Hillary Clinton calls for the video to be release --