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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

60 Days in Jail for Raping Daughter; Searching for Missing Fort Worth Woman; Driving While Distracted. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 18, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[20:00:00] ASHLEY BANFIELD, HLN HOST: A father violently rapes his 12- year-old daughter multiple times, but a Montana judge gives him just 60 days in jail. The outrage is growing, and you won`t believe the judge`s

reason for the slap on the wrist.

A woman goes missing in Texas, and the last person she`s seen with is her boyfriend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully, we will find Typhenie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He tells police a story, but it is the same story he told them the last time a girlfriend of his went missing.

A beloved school bus driver walks out to get his morning paper and is struck and killed by a driver texting behind the wheel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something must be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That driver`s punishment will have you asking, is that it? Find out what it was and how the victim`s family feels about it.

Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE.

If you look up the definition of justice, the on-line dictionary will tell you what is right, what is equitable, what is fair and what is just.

But even here in America, where the rule of law is held so sacred, it doesn`t always work out that way. and tonight, we have the disturbing,

God-awful case of a 12-year-old girl. She was raped repeatedly by her own father, and the court records outline every brutal fact. They even detail

how the girl`s mother walked in during one of the assaults.

Never mind the lifelong pain and suffering that this 12-year-old girl is going to endure as a result of being brutalized by someone who should have

been her fiercest protector. No, injustice is going to hit her squarely again because a judge in Montana is using his discretion to sentence that

child predator to just 60 days -- 60 days.

To be clear, that judge had a huge arsenal that he could have thrown at that father, that man who raped his own 12-year-old daughter over and over.

The minimum sentence is 25 years with another 75 probation. But Judge John McKeon granted a plea deal with just 60 days behind bars.

Not surprisingly, there is now a petition on Change.org calling for the judge`s removal, and it has thousands of signatures. Hardly the first time

that a judge has given an extremely light sentence in a rape case. Think Brock Turner, who got six months in the Stanford rape case. Think Austin

Wilkerson, who assaulted a drunk classmate rather than getting her home safely, like he promised her friends.

Joining me now is reporter Aja Goare from CNN affiliate W -- or KTVQ in Billings, Montana. Michael Christian`s a PRIMETIME JUSTICE producer who`s

digging into the facts in this case. And Judge Alex Ferrer is a former Florida circuit court judge, and of course, he`s also the host of "Judge

Alex."

Michael Christian, first to you because I know that you had the unpleasant task today of doing the research on the court documents and the actual

affidavit that lists the facts. How bad is it?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, PRIMETIME JUSTICE PRODUCER: It`s pretty bad, Ashleigh. You know, as a journalist, you cover cases that are horrible, things you

don`t want to hear, things you don`t want to read. I have to say in all honesty, this is one of the worst. It`d be horrible under any

circumstances, but especially when you consider it is a 40-year-old father and a 12-year-old daughter.

BANFIELD: And normally, Michael, as is the case in television, you would show a picture of that perpetrator. You would name him. You wouldn`t name

the victim of the assault. But we can`t name the perpetrator because her friends, her classmates, that town -- they would all know it was her if we

put his name on television. And so we`re in keeping with a lot of other media outlets, Michael, and we`re not naming him, although I know your

court document does.

And I want to do one other thing. And Michael, I know that this is not something you wanted to have to do. But in order to understand this case

and how bad it is, I need you to tell me exactly what happened to this little girl.

CHRISTIAN: Let me read from this, Ashleigh. This, again, is not pleasant. But the first occasion when this happened, from the court file, quote, "The

defendant stated that he began to kiss the victim and rub her vagina before removing his pants and asking the victim to fellate him. The defendant

stated the victim did not want to do so, but he prompted her to continue. The defendant stated he then vaginally penetrated her with his penis, and

that the victim had told him it hurt."

[20:05:22]Now, there`s more, Ashleigh. There was a second occasion. "The defendant described a second time during which he had entered the victim`s

room with a condom. The defendant again kissed the victim, rubbed her breasts and instructed her to fellate him. The defendant then proceeded to

anally penetrate the victim with his penis. The victim again indicated she was in pain and asked him to stop. The defendant stated he eventually

withdrew his penis, ejaculated inside the condom and disposed of it in the garbage can."

And in what may possibly be the most disturbing incident, Ashleigh, this one had a witness. The third time he had intercourse with the victim, he

had come home that night and went to the victim`s room, where he kissed her and directed her to his own bedroom.

There he bent the victim over the bed, removed her underwear, spit onto his hands to lubricate his penis, and began to anally penetrate the victim.

Shortly after beginning, the defendant`s wife walked into the room and observed what was happening, at which point she left the room, followed by

the defendant.

BANFIELD: Those are the facts. And as horrible as that is to hear, that`s what happened to this child at the hands of her own father. Michael, thank

you for that.

Aja Goare, I can only assume the judge in this case was in the courtroom and had all of these documents and knew all of those facts. How on earth

did this man get only 60 days in jail for the assault that Michael Christian just outlined?

AJA GOARE, KTVQ CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Ashleigh, one of the things in the Montana constitution allows him to get around that minimum

sentence that you talked about if the psychosexual evaluator recommends or testifies at sentencing that the defendant would be a good candidate for

community placement.

And that`s exactly what the psychosexual evaluator did. He said this man would be best suited for a community program to get him rehabilitated after

these awful acts and said that that would be best for him. And then, also, when the judge replied to us in a statement, he pointed to testimony from

the victim`s own grandmother and mother, where both women said that this man did not deserve to go to prison for 25 years and said that if he were

to go away, that his two sons would suffer unfairly for the amount of time that he`d be away from them.

BANFIELD: The two sons, presumably the two brothers of the 12-year-old girl who was raped repeatedly by their father. Just so I am crystal clear,

Aja, did anyone speak on behalf of this 12-year-old girl in court? The mother and the grandmother speaking on behalf of this defendant? Did

anybody speak on behalf of her or say anything for her?

GOARE: You would hope that would be the case, that the mother and grandmother would speak on her behalf. But being that they are the

defendant`s mother and wife, they chose to stand up for him. No one spoke for her.

BANFIELD: Judge Alex, I asked the question already. Presumably, the judge in this case was in that courtroom and had all these documents in front of

him and had the awful task of having to read through them, like my entire staff on this program had to do. How does this happen?

ALEX FERRER, FORMER FLORIDA CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE: I wish I had an answer for you, Ashleigh, but I don`t. You know, judges make wrong decisions.

Sometimes it`s just a bad judge. Sometimes it`s a judge who inexplicably makes the wrong ruling. I wish I had some indication of why he would latch

onto that kind of a sentence in a case that clearly deserves prison time, at least some prison time. If you tell me, OK, he had reasons to go below

the 25-year minimum mandatory and he decided that based on the testimony of the forensic expert, the clinical licensed psychologist or counselor...

BANFIELD: He`s evaluator, right?

FERRER: ... had testified...

BANFIELD: Called the evaluator?

FERRER: The evaluator, right. Yes. If he was going to give some weight to that and say, I`m going to go below the 25, all right, maybe I would

side with him depending on what the circumstances were. If he gave her 20 -- if he gave him 20, if he gave him 15. But how do you go from a minimum

mandatory sentence of 25 years for what is clearly, clearly...

BANFIELD: Brutal.

FERRER: ... rape...

BANFIELD: Brutal.

FERRER: ... not something that just falls under the definition of a rape...

BANFIELD: Yes.

FERRER: ... but clearly a rape, and then end up giving him a suspended sentence of 30 years, which means he doesn`t serve any time as long as he

doesn`t, I guess, get caught again.

[20:10:07]BANFIELD: You know...

FERRER: I don`t understand that.

BANFIELD: I`m glad you said that whole thing about that, you know, that falling under the definition of rape because I think when people see the

headline, they immediately think, Well, every state`s different, and sometimes rape isn`t exactly what I think it is.

But in this case, this was a brutalization, a repeated brutalization of this 12-year-old girl witnessed by her own mother. This child was attacked

over and over again.

It`s just -- but I want to ask you something. I want to just go over a couple of these cases that have been making our blood boil -- I mean, and

honestly, not just ours. A lot of people in America and elsewhere are so frustrated with hearing these cases, like the Judge Aaron Persky case,

where Brock Turner sexually assaults a young woman behind a dumpster at Stanford, and he gets six months in jail and only serves three.

And then there`s that Judge Todd Baugh. Stacey Rambold was a teacher who raped a freshman. She ended up committing suicide, and he got 31 days.

Later, he was resentenced by another judge, but originally, 31 days Judge Baugh gave him.

And then there`s Judge Marc Kellams, perpetrator John Enochs (ph), originally charged with raping two Indiana University students. But they

were dismissed, those charges, as part of a plea deal. Instead, just a single count of battery, and he got one day. He served one day, one day in

jail with a year probation.

And Judge Patrick Butler decided that when Austin Wilkerson sexually assaulted a drunk classmate who he promised everybody he would take care of

and make sure she got home, he got two years work release.

Judge Alex, these cases are making huge news. I have reported them. They`ve gone viral, some of these cases, and yet we see this happening

again. Are judges not listening to the public, who are outraged about this? Or is there something else afoot?

FERRER: No, I don`t think there`s something else afoot. First of all, every case now that comes out where the judge gives a sentence that`s below

guidelines is going to be blown up. And you have to be careful about that because some of them, it may be warranted factually.

I remember in the Enochs (ph) case, the prosecutors came forward and basically said, We have evidence that has come forward that has made us --

made it clear to us that on these two incidents that are alleged, we can`t prove rape on either one of them.

Now, that certainly gave rise to the plea deal that they offered to Enochs and the judge entered. So I wouldn`t lump that in together. I`d like to

know more details about what was the evidence that led them to believe that maybe the women were lying, or what was the point?

But on the others -- you know, Brock Turner, he basically grabbed an intoxicated girl from a party behind a dumpster and raped her. The judge`s

comments were basically that he took into consideration the defendant`s age and he took into consideration alcohol. And yes, OK, judges take into

consideration a lot of factors, just like the judge in this case of incest took into consideration the rehabilitation of the father.

But that does not trump the crime. If you are under the influence of alcohol or you`re young and you murder someone, I`m sorry, you stepped up

to the plate in the major leagues. You murdered somebody. And it`s the same with a rape. There is no justification for letting that outweigh it.

In this case, one of the factors the judge didn`t consider is punishment for the crime. He should have been punished for the crime, and there`s a

deterrent effect that comes from punishing him properly.

BANFIELD: And justice for the victim. Presumably, after his 60 hard time days, he`s going to go right back into that house with his daughter.

Hold your point there for a moment, Alex, if you will. Aja Goare, Michael Christian and Judge Alex Ferrer, thank you for your input on this.

I mentioned this before. Nobody spoke up in court on behalf of this 12- year-old girl, raped by her own dad, not her mother, not her grandmother. Instead, they spoke up for him, Said he was a good father. And the judge

seemed to think he could change.

But coming up, you`re going to hear somebody who went through a similar experience, and she`s going to tell you they don`t. They don`t change.

I`m Ashleigh Banfield, and we`re just getting started.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:08]BANFIELD: A father brutally rapes his 12-year-old daughter and gets 60 days in jail. What was the judge thinking? And why did the family

members stand by the accused in court?

Joining me now, Shari Karney, a victims` rights attorney and a survivor of incest herself, a similar experience, in fact. Robin Sax is a former sex

crimes prosecutor, and Shawn Holley is a defense attorney. Thank you all for being with me.

I think the very first issue that I need to figure out here, is if it`s typical for families to abandon one of their own who`s a victim in a case

like this. Shari, you have a similar experience.

SHARI KARNEY, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I do.

BANFIELD: Is this something that surprises you?

KARNEY: It`s -- no, I`m not surprised at all. Unfortunately, I`m not surprised. I`m mad as hell, but I`m not surprised because, typically, what

happens is that the families ally with the perpetrators, abandon and orphan the survivor. So if you`re the truth teller in your family and you`re the

victim, you`re the one that becomes family-less. You`re the one that everybody doesn`t stand up for.

And my heart goes out to this 12-year-old little girl because I can relate to her. I was that little girl. I know what she`s going through. And I

know that the part that makes me really upset about this is the part that he has 60 days. He`s gotten sexual pleasure from molesting his own

daughter.

They`re not going to change that with psychosexual therapy. This is someone who cannot, in my opinion, be rehabilitated. So what`s going to

happen after he serves his 60 days is that he`s going to go right back to molesting, sexually abusing, raping his own child.

But this time, her voice will be taken away because she told. She spoke. She told her grandmother. She told her mother. She told the courts. And

nobody did anything.

[20:20:03]BANFIELD: I want to -- I want to read for our audience what the victim`s mother said in court in her statement supporting the father who

did this.

"I do not feel 25 years in prison is necessarily the best way for the defendant to pay for what he`s done. The defendant made horrible choice.

He needs help, not to spend 25 years locked up. He has two sons that still love him and need their father in his -- in their lives. Even with very

understandable restrictions, I would like to see my children have an opportunity to heal the relationship with their father. He is not a

monster, but a man who made a mistake."

Let me read for you what the grandmother, maternal grandmother, I might add, read in court. "What he, the defendant, did to my granddaughter was

horrible, and he should face consequences. And I certainly never wanted to it happen again to anyone. But his children, especially his sons, will be

devastated if their dad is no longer in their lives."

Robin Sax, I want to be sick when I see two family members talk about the sons in this case as though they are the critical element here. Not a

mention of the girl who endured these repeated brutal assaults, not a mention. And the judge is OK with this?

ROBIN SAX, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, what`s completely outrageous is besides what they said, this case was settled by plea bargain. That means

that the defendant himself said, I`m going to plead guilty, and the prosecution had offered a sentence where it was going to be a 100-year

sentence, 75 years were going to be suspended, and he was going to serve 25 years.

If he was not OK with that, he would not have accepted that plea deal. So now the judge comes in and decides to undercut something that even the

defendant was agreeable to! That`s where I`m outraged.

BANFIELD: Well, and I`ll tell you what. You`re not the only one because it turns out thousands upon thousands of people have signed an on-line

petition. They want this judge impeached.

Now, full disclosure, this judge is retiring in just a couple of months. So I want to read what the petition said. And then, Shawn Halley, I want

to ask you what impeached might do, other than retirement.

"Impeach Judge John McKeon. We the people of Montana cannot sit by and watch the repeated injustice of our court system. We want Judge McKeon

impeached and his retirement benefits revoked."

Shawn Holley, is that the only additional punishment that a judge might get, the impeachment would take away the retirement benefits, because

otherwise, this judge in a couple months sails into the sunset.

SHAWN HOLLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me say this, Ashleigh. Obviously, it is impossible for anyone to defend the actions of this

defendant. That said, there is a bigger problem here. You said previously, is not -- are not people watching what this judge is doing?

And you know what? That`s a dangerous question.

It is important for the judiciary to have discretion. We know a lot about this case, but we don`t know everything about this case. And it becomes

extremely problematic when we the public look at pieces of a case, look at something that a judge has done, and understandably become outraged because

the facts that we know are outrageous.

But more importantly, a judge has got to have some discretion. And you also said, Ashleigh, that no one spoke up for this little girl. And the

reality is the DA, the prosecutor spoke up for this little girl, and we do only know a piece of this. We don`t know, for example, whether or not it

would have traumatized this girl, and we have to presume it would have, for her to go through this process during a trial.

There are a number of things that we are not considering because we are so outraged by the act, and we should be. But we have to keep in mind greater

principles, like the ability of a judge to make decisions with the totality of the facts and circumstances, and not just what we here are considering.

KARNEY: But here`s the problem. Shawn, here`s the problem. There`s too much discretion when it comes to protecting our children. There`s too much

discretion when it comes -- how come sexual assault after sexual assault goes in judge`s discretion, where they end up doing nothing to punish the

perpetrator, nothing, and the victims serve a lifelong sentence.

(CROSSTALK)

CHRISTIAN: So the perpetrator gets off scot-free and the victim serves.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: ... in the sentencing guidelines, and I feel that this one like, Brock Turner, like the others, fell woefully below those guidelines.

[20:25:05]There`s no way you can read that affidavit and hear what happened to this child over and over again, the most brutal kinds of sexual assault,

where she begged him to stop because it was painful. It was the most violent kind of rape there is. I`m not going to sugar coat it here, folks.

And for him to get 60 days? This is his child? And eventually, he goes and lives with her again? You can`t tell me that this is a case of

discretion where I just don`t know enough of the facts. I just -- I can`t possibly find any fact anywhere that could assuage or mitigate what we`ve

seen happen here tonight.

Shari Karney, I appreciate what you`ve added to this conversation. Robin Sax and Shawn Holley, two brilliant lawyers, stay with me because I`ve got

more coming.

Coming up next, a young woman goes missing, and the man at the center of the investigation -- it is not the first time, apparently, an ex-girlfriend

of his has vanished mysteriously. And what`s even more bizarre, his story is almost identical for each girl.

[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Days ago, 25-year-old Typhenie Johnson was seen with an ex- boyfriend. It was in the Fort Worth Area of Texas. But tonight, no one knows where she is. Police, volunteers, search team, family members,

everybody is looking everywhere for Typhenie. Her ex-boyfriend reportedly told police he saw her get into a car with someone else after an argument

that he had with her.

Here`s the oh-oh part of the story. This ex-boyfriend apparently spun pretty much the same story about a decade ago. You guessed it. Another ex-

girlfriend had vanished. Joining me now, Claire Ballor, in Dallas, Texas. Claire, what happened to Typhenie? What`s the story in the last moments

that we last saw her?

CLAIRE BALLOR, REPORTER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS: So Typhenie was last seen October 10th, that evening, when she was outside her apartment in Fort

Worth with her ex-boyfriend, Christopher Revill. They were having a conversation and he was the last one to see her before she vanished.

BANFIELD: So from what I understand, her new boyfriend and her brother were actually there at the apartment and looking from a window where they could

not only see the argument but they could see the trunk of his car was open. And he backed in, close to the apartment over some grass?

BALLOR: Yes. So, they were outside discussing it. And while this conversation was happening, Typhenie`s brother and her current boyfriend

were watching. At one point that conversation moved. And it moved out of their line of sight. And 20 minutes later, Revill came to the door to

collect some belongings. And later, that`s when they saw him go to his car with the trunk open.

When they went outside to look to see where Typhenie was after he had told them that she had gotten into the vehicle of someone he did not know, what

they found lying on the ground where his car had been parked was her sock, her phone, and her keys.

BANFIELD: And then that wasn`t it. There were some other things found in his apartment and at his mom`s apartment. What`s the significance of those?

BALLOR: Right, so Revill live with his parents. And when police searched that home, what they found in the backyard was a woman`s bra, and on that

bra, the metal clasps had been bent out of shape as though as the affidavit said, it had been ripped off. They also found a woman`s shirt and a man`s

tank top, as well as a smart watch with a busted clasp.

BANFIELD: Is there -- I mean, regarding this search for Typhenie right now, is there any thought at this point that they might find her and that

something else entirely innocent might have happened? Or is there a really dire sense in this community?

BALLOR: So one thing that set this case apart from the beginning is that from the very start, authorities said that they had reasons to believe

there was foul play. And that Typhenie did disappear under suspicious circumstances. So, there have been indicators that something went awry here

from the very beginning. And at this point, authorities are searching in nearby parks around the area that Revill lives with his parents.

BANFIELD: There is some water source isn`t there as well behind her apartment where she went missing.

BALLOR: Yes. So around that area, there are some rural parts that they`re also looking through. So at this point, unfortunately, it seems like this

is more of a recovery effort.

BANFIELD: That`s just awful, awful to hear. Especially with the details we`re about to get into. Claire, don`t go anywhere if you would as those

search teams work hard to try to find Typhenie Johnson. Police say her ex- boyfriend is not being very cooperative in the investigation. We`re going to dig deeper into just what he told police and friends and anyone who

would listen 10 years ago when strangely, a girlfriend just mysteriously went missing. And then even more odd, there is a silver lining, in a sense,

to this case. I`ll explain all of that in a moment.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: 25-year-old Typhenie Johnson disappeared just a week ago. But is this mystery linked to a missing woman`s case that remains unsolved almost

a decade later? Authorities are trying to get some information from a man who dated both women. And says he saw each one get into a car with someone

else before they mysteriously vanished. And yes, they were both arguing with him right beforehand. All of this 10 years apart.

Joining me now reporter Claire Ballor with the Dallas Morning News, former Los Angeles County prosecutor Robin Sax, and defense attorney Shawn Holley

who has represented some pretty big names like Lindsey Lohan and O.J. Simpson, Dream Team as well. Welcome to all of you.

I`ll come back to you, Claire, with the notion of another woman and another MO that seem strangely the same. Authorities have to be taking that very

seriously.

BALLOR: Absolutely. And as they said, the case of his previous ex- girlfriend who went missing in 2006 is still open. But at the time, they had nothing to link him to it. But they are hopeful now that they have him

in custody that this could lead to some resolution as well.

BANFIELD: So he is in custody. But as I understand, he is not charged yet. Is that right, Claire?

BALLOR: That`s correct. He has been arrested on a kidnapping charge in connection with the disappearance of Typhenie Johnson. And he has being

held in the Mansfield Jail currently.

[20:40:00] BANFIELD: Okay. So Robin Sax, if you don`t have a body but you have some broken bra clips and some keys and a phone and a sock, and maybe

the tube top, the small halter top that she was wearing the last time she was seen, is that enough to actually go after this young man on anything

more than attempted kidnapping or suspected kidnapping?

SAX: Well, first of all, I think that it is too soon to make that determination. I`m sure Shawn will be the first to tell me. Don`t jump to

conclusion.

However, what we may actually see here is what we`ve seen time and time again. We saw it in the John Gardner and Chelsea king case where sometimes

the prior case gets unearthed because of evidence and you`re actually able to make linkage and charge the first case while you`re actually holding for

arrest in the second case.

And I can see that investigators I`m sure are looking at both cases simultaneously and saying, is there any way we can link anything together

to charge him with something?

BANFIELD: So that to me would be the silver lining in this. But to Taliba Islam (ph), the woman who went missing 10 years ago, and it seems to be a

cold case, is suddenly re-energized and is getting some attention.

I`m sure her family is thrilled with the notion that that young woman may actually find some justice in this case that has just befallen us. But let

me ask this. Without a body. I`ve seen it before. But without a body, Shawn Holley, can you actually have a prosecution?

HOLLEY: Well, I mean it`s possible. There have been prosecutions without dead bodies before. But obviously, it is very difficult. It makes sense

that the authorities would be suspicious. There are certainly suspicious circumstances.

But cases are not built on suspicious circumstances. They`re built on evidence. And it doesn`t sound to me like there`s enough evidence at this

point certainly to charge him with either of these mysteries. We`ll call them mysteries because we don`t even know.

BANFIELD: Really? Not enough?

HOLLEY: . if it`s any crime. No. And I bet you that my colleagues will agree with me on that as suspicious as it sounds.

BANFIELD: I mean, he has got a rap sheet that`s pretty long, stemming 10 years. Burglary, aggravated robbery, robbery, assaulting a public servant,

marijuana possession, criminal trespass, evading arrest, resisting arrest, criminal trespass. I guess, what you`re gonna tell me, Shawn, is what the

facts are. That means even a little of that, it doesn`t make you a kidnapper.

SAX: But we have eyewitnesses. We have eyewitnesses.

HOLLEY: We need to go where the evidence is. We have eyewitnesses who see an argument. But, you know, it is hard to commit a perfect crime. We need

to see some DNA, we need to see some forensics. We don`t have enough.

BANFIELD: Let`s watch and see what happens. Thank you to both of you. I do appreciate it. Claire Ballor as well, great reporting. Robin and Shawn,

stick around. Just ahead, a driver plows right into a man who is picking up his morning newspaper out in front of his house. She was distracted by her

cell phone.

So how long do you think she will spend time behind bars? Because ultimately she killed him. Either way, will her sentence bring any justice

to the family? And what does the family of the victim have to do with the number of days she`ll spend behind bars?

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: More than 600,000 Americans are driving while distracted with devices. To put it in perspective, it is like the entire population of Las

Vegas. Or Boston. And in Minnesota, 79-year-old Joe Tikalsky stepped out of his house to pick up his newspaper and that ended up his last act.

Because the driver mowed him down. She was thought to be texting and the scene was an ugly one. Joining me now, Andrew Lee, morning host of KTLK-AM

11:30 in Minneapolis. Andrew, what happened to Mr. Tikalsky?

ANDREW LEE, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND MORNING HOST OF KTLK-AM: As you said, Tikalsky was a well-liked longtime bus driver for the school district. He

just finished his pre-dawn route. And like he did every day after his first route, he would go home.

He would park his bus to his house, he would go out and get his newspaper. As he was collecting the newspaper from the roadside, that`s when he was

struck and killed by an SUV driven by Susan Russo.

BANFIELD: I want to be really clear. This was an extraordinary accident. It was terribly violent. This is the description of the victim afterwards from

an affidavit. The body had extreme blunt force trauma, with the lower portion of the body to be twisted and severe damage to the right side of

the body. Andrew, she knew -- Susan Russo knew that she had hit something because she heard it right? But didn`t see it?

LEE: Correct. She admitted to the first responding officer that she was looking down at her cell phone, that she was getting ready or she was about

to send a text. She was composing a text message to her daughter. And as soon as she looked up, all she saw was a yellow flash and then she heard

and felt the impact.

BANFIELD: Well, I want to read exactly what she told the officers in the back of the cruiser. Russo would advise that she was looking at a text

message that she had received from her daughter and she was in the process of typing a response text message to her daughter. Russo noted that she

heard the impact from hitting something before she sent the text message.

So ultimately, the text message was not sent. Andrew, stay put if you will. Because coming up, you would think since the driver made that admission to

the police in that cruiser, that this would be an open and shut case, right? Not so fast. In a moment, you`ll gonna hear from the victim`s son

who tells us how and why his family made all the difference in the sentence.

[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We hear about texting and driving being incredibly dangerous. How dangerous is it? I want to you check out some unbelievable stats. It takes

five seconds at a minimum to read a text. And at 55 miles an hour, you drive the distance of a football field in just five seconds. So that in

itself is the recipe for disaster and it happens all the time. It is generally illegal to text and drive.

All but four states have driver bans on texting. Arizona and Missouri, Montana and Texas. Joining me now is Greg Tikalsky. He`s Joe Sikalsky`s

son. Thank you, sir, for being with us tonight. It is remarkable that you are as forgiving as you are for what Susan Russo did. Texting and driving

and ultimately killing your dad. How did you come to that forgiveness?

[20:55:00] GREG TIKALSKY, SON OF CRASH VICTIM: Well, Ashleigh, I thin, first, we understood it was unintentional. We understood Susan had no

intention of causing harm when she woke up that morning. Unfortunately, a decision that was made on her part resulted in my dad`s death.

I think part of the forgiveness is my background. Part of the forgiveness also is part of the healing process for us. And so in order to move

forward, I think we have to forgive.

BANFIELD: I understand that and I applaud you. Because I don`t think as many people could be as honorable as you. In the same vain, I wonder when I

think about drinking and driving, I`m sure most people don`t want to hurt anyone either. But they make a choice, they do something reckless.

And if they kill someone, they pay the price. And it seems that Mrs. Russo made a choice to text and drive and ultimately the result was that you lost

someone very precious to you. And yet you still feel that way.

TIKALSKY: I completely agree with the fact. I believe drinking and driving and texting and driving are both conscious decisions made by people. And in

some cases, these are good people who commit these crimes. Whether it`s a drinking and driving or texting and driving. But they`re both conscious

decisions that could be avoidable.

I would agree it has been called an epidemic, texting and driving, it`s been called an epidemic by federal officials, local officials. And I just

don`t understand how if it is an epidemic, how our legal system hasn`t responded the way it should.

BANFIELD: So Greg, I know that Mrs. Russo is extraordinarily remorseful and has dedicated that she will help in this cause moving forward in her life.

But at the same time, don`t you think one of the best messages we can send to try to assuage this problem is to be tough? To actually set an example.

TIKALSKY: Absolutely. I believe the behaviors will follow the law. So if texting becomes a more serious offense, I would like to see texting and

driving that results in death become a vehicular homicide in the State of Minnesota. If that law changes and we become more strict with our

penalties, I believe there will be a social stigma attached to texting and driving. We haven`t arrived there yet. Beginning in the 1980s, we began to

see with that with drinking and driving.

There was need to catch up sooner. I think there is a real slow learning curve for drinking and driving. I think we should have learned from that

and that curve could could be much deeper. And I believe part of the healing process for those people who commit the crime, for who commit a

crime, I believe this is part of the healing process as well. A punishment.

BANFIELD: I think you`re an incredibly magnanimous man. I`m very sorry for your loss, even your family. As you go forward, we wish you the best, sir,

thank you.

TIKALSKY: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Judge Alex Ferrer is with me still. You know, judge, it is amazing to hear someone who is so deeply affected be so forgiving. But at

the same time, I wonder about the rest of us. Because sometimes, crimes are not just crimes against the victims.

They`re crimes against society. Oftentimes, they`re crimes against society. You, me, our viewers right now. And how does that judge reconcile, I get

it, how that family feels. How about how the rest of us feel?

FERRER: The judge`s decision in cases like this, those are the hardest cases for a judge to handle. I mean, sending a rapist to prison, that is a

piece of cake, I guess, other than some of the judges we discussed earlier in this program obviously.

But sending somebody who has done nothing wrong, your whole life is otherwise a law-abiding citizen, and you know you`ll gonna destroy their

life by sending them to prison, yet they did an act, not intending to kill, but they did an act that was so stupid and resulted in the loss of a life.

You`re really torn in two different directions.

So judges very often look to people like the victim`s son that you just had on, to see their position on it. And in this case, it was clearly, clearly

the woman was remorseful. She was crying with the victim`s wife. And those are the kind of things the judge takes into consideration in deciding

whether they should destroy yet a second life. It`s a tough call, it really is.

BANFIELD: And I will note to our viewers that the perpetrator in this case, Susan Russo, will serve four days. She will serve two days in the next

couple of weeks on the anniversary of the incident. And she will serve an additional two days next year on the anniversary of the death of this man.

Thank you very much to my guests. Alex Ferrer, I do appreciate your input as well. And thank you everyone for being with us tonight. Great you have

to back here. Looking forward to seeing you back here as well, 8 p.m. PRIMETIME JUSTICE, where we spotlight justice wherever it happens. Stay

tuned.

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