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Clinton's Lead Shrinking in New National Poll; Bloomberg Poll Has Trump Leading in Florida; Muslim Gold Star Father Takes to Campaign Trail; Gingrich Clashes with Megyn Kelly. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 26, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And that does it for us. What a night. CNN TONIGHT with Don Lemon starts now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Breaking news, you know the old saying, it is not over until it's over.
New polls show this race may be closer than anybody thought.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Hillary Clinton's lead shrinking in our new poll of polls down to six points over Donald Trump, and the whole thing could come down to the sunshine state, Florida when the new Bloomberg poll has Trump in the lead.
Just barely, but remember, this is a state that Barack Obama won twice. Clinton today, taking nothing for granted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can't take our foot off the gas even for a short time. Every vote counts. Just ask my friend, former Vice President, Al Gore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You might have heard about this one, the battle between Megyn Kelly and Newt Gingrich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Me, really?
GINGRICH: Well, that's what I get out of watching you tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, now Donald Trump is weighing in. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Congratulations, Newt, on last night. That was an amazing interview.
LEMON: Wonder if he saw the same interview. Meanwhile, he tells a crowd in North Carolina this tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Seventy five percent of the American people think our country is on the wrong track. That's an easy one to figure, isn't it?
We're going to fix it and we're going to get our country back on the right track and it's going to happen very quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's get right now to Mark McKinnon, the co-creator of Showtime's, The Circus, and CNN's Mark Preston.
Good evening, gentlemen. Mark Preston, you first. A bunch of new national polls out today, so what do they show?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, Don, in a month of bad headlines for Donald Trump he did get some good news today for this evening. Anyway, from a new Fox News poll.
Let's take a look at it right here if we can it up in the screen. Right now it shows that Hillary Clinton only has a three-point advantage over Donald Trump.
Now, within that poll, it shows that Trump has a 14-point advantage with white voters, 5-point advantage with male voters, a 28-point advantage with non-educated whites.
Now, where does Hillary Clinton, where does she see her strengths? Well, not surprisingly a 77-point advantage with African-Americans, a 10-point advantage with women, and an 18-point advantage with those that are under -- voters that under 30.
However, we can't look at one poll as a solo and say that's the snapshot of the race. Let's now look at the CNN poll of poles right now, Don, this is where we can take that can bend them of the most recent national polls that CNN has selected and it gives us a better idea of where the race is right now.
If you take a look at it, it shows that Clinton has a six-point lead right now over Donald Trump. Now, of course this is a national poll and it includes the new Fox News poll, as you can see there, as well.
Gary Johnson comes in at 5 percent, Jill Stein at 2 percent. So, Don, the race is clearly tightening as we've seen it with the state polls and the national polls, Hillary Clinton though still seems to have a pathway, a more clear pathway to winning 270 electoral votes needed to win the election.
LEMON: All right. Let's bring in Mr. McKinnon now. Because there is more god news for Donald Trump in the key state of Florida, he is two points ahead. This race is tightening up, and shall we be surprised by that?
MARK MCKINNON, THE CIRCUS CO-CREATOR AND CO-HOST: We shouldn't be surprised. The race always tightens up in the last couple of weeks. Although there's been a significant news about him in the couple of days which I think is helpful to Donald Trump and that's the announcement of the ObamaCare premiums.
I mean, that's a big issue for republicans and it's what Donald Trump has been saying all along and telling people that those premiums are going up. So that's a bad-news development in the last cycle that certainly helped Donald Trump.
But I think also a lot of republicans are looking at their options and they're coming home, and also, you have the third-party vote that at the end of these races people say I really don't want to throw my vote away.
LEMON: And people - the people usually come home, democrats usually come home, republicans usually come home.
MCKINNON: Democrats come home. And the key for Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton currently has 90 percent of democrats supporting her. Donald Trump only has about 85 percent of republicans. He needs to get that to 90.
LEMON: All right. Let's hear from Donald Trump because Dana Bash caught up with Trump today at his hotel ribbon cutting and asked him about his -- about his fundraising efforts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Time is running out. The clock is ticking. Will you write a check and...
TRUMP: I've already done that. I've already written the number on it.
BASH: But I mean, specifically -- specifically to get up on the air to combat the ads that you say Hillary Clinton is running against you?
TRMUMP: Well, in Florida she has 50 to one against me, 50. You're the one who reported.
BASH: But you have the means to combat that.
TRUMP: Sure, I do. But in the meantime, 50 to one and I'm leading. How would you like to have spent? You know, in the old days, you'd get if you would spend less money and have victory that would be a good thing. Today, they want you to spend money. I'll have over 100 million. I'm willing to spend much more than if I have to. I'm seeing just great chance. You know, one of the other things we're seeing in Florida, we're seeing it in other places the lines going into voting booths, going into voting areas, are unbelievable.
[22:05:06] I mean, in Florida, yesterday, we passed four of them. The lines were three and four blocks long. Those are not her voters because her voters have no enthusiasm to go out.
BASH: Can you just be specific how much are you willing to put down...
TRUMP: No, I've already...
BASH: ... in order to put up new ads.
TRUMP: No, I will have over 100 million in I'm willing to invest more than that.
BASH: Like how much?
TRUMP: Don't -- just let's go to your next question, Dana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he was a little bit testy there, Mark, with Dana. And the latest campaign finance report shows it's more like $56 million. Is he leaving other republicans in alert or not?
PRESTON: Well, there's no question this has been a torched of relationship at best between Donald Trump, the republican establishment, and quite frankly, Senate and congressional candidates that are going to be on the ballot with him.
You know, at this point, you know, I do wish -- I think that republicans do wish that in fact, he had gone all in, that he was able to use some of his personal money and that he was able to put up television ads a lot earlier than he has.
We haven't seen that much from Donald Trump in paid advertising. He's done a lot of it just on earned media, doing interviews, doing call-in interviews and what have you.
If you are a congressional candidate right now, though, you have to wonder are you willing to hitch your wagon to this horse. And in some congressional districts and some states do you not want to be connected to Donald Trump, and in others quite frankly, you do.
So, I do think that the republican establishment wishes there was more money put in, Don, but at this point right now everyone needs to run their own race.
LEMON: And? MCKINNON: I -- you know, I was the advertising effort of the Bush
campaigns and I got to the point where presidential campaigns where I believe that 95 percent of most ads finance just wasted.
So, I actually think that is not that necessary to be spending on advertising, especially Donald Trump is a free-media machine.
On the other hand, the turnout operation is important and money should be spent there. In the last report I saw Donald Trump is spending three times as much money on hats as he is on turn-out operations.
LEMON: The ground game is really important.
MCKINNON: We're going to test the hat strategy. Well, in a close race, absolutely that matters.
MCKINNON: I mean, that's where you get one or two point difference. It's in the turnout effort.
LEMON: He is saying, Mark McKinnon, that this election is rigged, telling people that they need to go and watch the polls, right? You know, he's doing that thing.
This is from USA Today. Here's what it says. It says "Half of all likely voters say that they are at least somewhat worried about violence on Election Day or after."
And today, this is what former U.S. Representative Joe Walsh tweeted. He said, "On November 8, I am voting for Trump. On November 9th, if Trump loses I'm grabbing a mascot, are you in?"
So, when so many people are so anxious and so many are angry, is that irresponsible?
MCKINNON: Yes, I think it's highly irresponsible. I mean, we need a peaceful transition, no matter what happens. And what concerns me is that in the last two presidential elections, first George W. Bush because we had a recount and so because of that recount half the country didn't see him as a legitimate president or a lot of them didn't.
Then when Obama was elected because of Donald Trump and the 'birther' stuff, many of the people didn't think he was a natural born citizen and cut sort of handicapped him going in.
And now we have another situation where if Hillary Clinton wins, Donald Trump is sort of threatening, you know, whether or not it's going to be -- he's going to lineup on the results or not and then you have others talking about violence after the election. So, it's very concerning and I think irresponsible.
LEMON: You're out there and Mark Preston, you've been out there on the campaign trail, as well. And you hear -- when you hear people say things like that what does that do to the electorate to the people who show up to those rallies?
PRESTON: Well, it enrages them. There's no question. And you know, throughout this campaign we've seen Donald Trump takes the stage and in many ways encourage, you know, this type of stuff.
Now we've seen democrats, as well, you know, through these videos that were taken. You know, that they in fact try to incite some of this themselves but that's at a very, very small level and certainly quite frankly, didn't really make a mark.
However, when you see somebody like that former congressman come out and say something like that, it really does say something about where we are right now as a nation.
And the fact to the matter is there is so much hatred and anger towards Washington because they don't feel like anyone gets anything done and these people out there and these folks out there in many ways, and they should be, they feel like they've been left behind and they don't think that Washington is really representing them.
That's where I think you're seeing most of Trump's support come from.
LEMON: Mark and Mark, both of you, stick -- you wanted to say something?
MCKINNON: Well, it's just playing on peoples' fears and there are absolutely no facts to back it up. There is no voter fraud in this country.
MCKINNON: There's 33 cases.
LEMON: All right. Stick around, we have a lot more to talk about. When we come right back, the Gold Star father bashed by Donald Trump takes to the campaign trail today. Could he be Hillary Clinton's strongest supporter?
[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Donald Trump campaigning tonight in North Carolina, and laying out a plan that he calls a new deal for black America.
Black with me now, Mark McKinnon and Mark. Preston. So, Mr. Preston, Trump gave a speech today build as his plan to revitalize the inner cities. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will also police our streets; have to make our streets safe. I want every poor African-American child to be able to walk down the street in peace and not be scared and not be hurt.
The problem is not the presence of police, but the absence of police. We need really a great group of people to keep you safe, to keep us all safe.
The war on police urged on by my rival is really reckless. What's happening is reckless and dangerous puts African-American lives at risk and all you have to do is look at the statistics and you see what's happening.
We must work with our police not against them. We're going to work together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Mark, there has been an ongoing debate about what these speeches are really about, who he's targeting when he talks about the inner cities and police like that. Who is it?
PRESTON: You know, I think Donald Trump thinks he's targeting everybody in those, but that's a very difficult speech to give in the sense he's sending two messages right there.
And when you put them together they sound like it's a great thing to do but it's a very, very complicated. If you go back to 2013 and you look at what the Republican Party did with their autopsy and they realized that they had to reach out to African-Americans and Latinos, and they, you know, tried to the Republican National Committee try to put some money behind it and put people out in the field.
Well, you can do that and put people in those neighborhoods. But the fact to the matter is, when you have a portion of the Republican Party, pushing really hard on an immigration plan that is not going to be accepted by Hispanics, let alone by a majority of the country. It's very difficult to reach out to, you know, these constituencies.
[22:15:01] And you know, we should note that Donald Trump has given similar speeches in the past but he's given to all-white audiences.
So, I'm not quite sure if he's trying to bring over black voters or if he's trying to, you know, soothe any fears from these undecided voters who look at Donald Trump and my question whether he has racial tendencies or not.
LEMON: Mark McKinnon, I mean, it's kind of cringe worthy when you hear that.
MCKINNON: Well, I mean, he says it is as if there's some sort of shared experience. And I think that that's going to get a good reaction in the communities that he's talking about.
LEMON: Yes, why doesn't he understand that, or his folks do you think understand that when he speaks that way about -- especially you know, when he says that I want every poor African-American child?
MCKINNON: I think he -- I think in his own heart feels like he's genuine but that's just -- he doesn't -- he doesn't have enough experience to know that that's not how you talk, that's not how you interact and he hasn't been in the community enough to understand that. LEMON: It's actually really, really awful.
LEMON: It's really, really terrible.
MCKINNON: And it may have just the opposite effect.
LEMON: Yes. So, he has been kind of tone deaf when it comes to his criticism of people of all kinds and his attacks on Khizr Khan, a Gold Star father. That made a lot of Americans cringe.
Khizr Khan was out on the trail for Hillary Clinton today campaigning in Virginia. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR PARENT: This election, we are going to select American values and I have no hesitation, I will say it a million times because you all have given me the courage by your example to speak when the time comes, get up and stand up and speak.
I will say this that crossroad is American values that represented by Secretary Clinton, and un-American hate and division represented by Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Other than the first lady is there a more effective surrogate than, you know, someone who is a voter or someone who has lost their child on a war?
MCKINNON: Oh, my God. No. That was such a powerful moment at the convention, and because it was authentic, this was not a politician, this was a real human being, who lost a loved one, unscripted from the heart. And, I mean, in showing his grief.
LEMON: Yes. Mark Preston, can you compare the surrogates that Hillary Clinton has to the surrogates Donald Trump has out on the trail and what it means in terms of galvanizing and turning out voters because that's really now you need to turnout voters.
PRESTON: No, I mean, it's not comparable at all. I mean, the fact to the matter is that Donald Trump, in his campaign, he's alienated so many people in the Republican Party that could potentially work on his behalf.
Him and Speaker Ryan don't even speak which is amazing, right, because they both want to see, you know, a republican-controlled Congress and a republican White House.
But if you look who Hillary Clinton has, Barack Obama on the campaign trail, as you noted, Michelle Obama, who is going to be with Hillary Clinton for the first time in North Carolina tomorrow, who's been an amazing surrogate.
You've seen Bernie Sanders, who was her opponent, who was out there with her. Elizabeth Warren who is a very good surrogate, as well.
You're talking about folks who can reach out to different constituencies not only in their own party. Joe Biden, for instance, who is doing blue collar worker outreach in Pennsylvania and Ohio.
And you're looking at Donald Trump, who, by and large, his surrogates are his children and, you know, they're pretty good but they don't rise to that level, and Rudy Giuliani, who seems to have gone off the reels a little bit in this campaign, certainly in the past couple of months.
MCKINNON: And for any grieving parent you have to -- you have to honor the grief. And the worse response you could say is well, if I've been president that would have happened. Because then you're disrespecting the sacrifice that that person -- that that person made.
LEMON: Yes, I want to ask you about, Mark McKinnon, about this is an amazing about-face by Utah Representative Jason Chaffetz. Right after that Access Hollywood he became public -- that became public, he unendorsed Donald Trump.
Listen to what he told me.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: I can no longer endorse Donald Trump for president. There's no possible way I vote for Hillary Clinton, but these are abhorrent, they are wrong, to use a baseball metaphor, I got to call balls to strikes the way I see them, probably more compelling even that is my 15-year-old daughter.
Really, you want her dad to endorse this person and the way they're behaving to become the president of the United States of America? I can't do that with my 15-year-old daughter, so why should I do that with the rest of Utah? I just couldn't do it.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON: Then tonight, here's what he tweeted. He says, "I will not defend or endorse Donald Trump, but I am voting for him. HRC is that bad. HRC is bad for the USA."
So, Mark McKinnon, what's going on here, there is the party leaning on him because it's so close in Utah?
[22:19:58] MCKINNON: Gee, shucks. This is called politics, Don.
LEMON: I don't get it.
MCKINNON: And he's getting squeezed. He's getting squeezed back home by those Trump supporters, you see the polls tightening back up again and he's trying to have it both ways.
And I think when, you know, I think ultimately, when you try and have it both ways voters see through it and you don't have any way at all. LEMON: Yes. Does any -- I mean, I guess -- do people stand on
principle anymore? Because I hear people say that the most horrible things about someone and then all of sudden they're best buddies.
MCKINNON: Well, if you think somebody takes a principle stand like Ted Cruz did at the convention.
MCKINNON: And you say, well, you know, maybe there is some principal there, and then, a weeks later. Polls.
LEMON: What's up on the Circus?
MCKINNON: The circus, we're going to focus a lot this week on what it takes and we're going to do it through the lens of Joe Biden. I mean, Joe Biden has run a couple times.
MCKINNON: He's a -- he won around this time, he's been vice president. He knows a lot of these acts. He knows more than anybody arguably about what it takes to run for president, so we're going to take a look at Joe Biden.
LEMON: You know, I was, Mark Preston, I was asking you, I was like, do you know where he at the time when he says no, no, and you don't either, Mark Preston.
PRESTON: I find out at midnight where I'm going tomorrow.
LEMON: Oh, my gosh. I would like to see your airline schedule. That must be nuts.
All right. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it.
When we come right back, Newt Gingrich's epic on-air clash with Fox anchor Megyn Kelly. Is it helping or hurting Donald Trump, we'll debate that next.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Donald Trump praising Newt Gingrich, one of his top surrogates for his on-air clash with Fox News anchor, Megyn Kelly.
Here to discuss, Betsy McCaughey, the former lieutenant governor of New York who is a Trump supporter, and Jennifer Granholm, the former governor of Michigan, who is supporting Hillary Clinton. Good evening to both of you. Thank you for coming on.
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Good evening.
BETSY MCCAUGHEY, TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISOR: Good evening, governor.
GRANHOLM: Good evening.
LEMON: I want to start with you, Betsy. Because I want you to listen to this exchange between Megyn Kelly and the former Speaker Newt Gingrich from last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRICH: Do you want to know why Donald Trump has hard rough time at least...
KELLY: If Trump is a sexual predator that is...
GINGRICH: I'm not defending that statement. He's not a sexual predator. You can't say that. You could that not defend that statement.
KELLY: OK. That's your opinion. I'm not taking a position on it. I am not taking a position on it.
GINGRICH: Now I'm sick and tired of people like you using language that's inflammatory that's not true.
KELLY: Excuse me, Mr. Speaker.
GINGRICH: Donald -- Donald Trump...
KELLY: You have no idea whether it's true or not. What we know is that there are at least...
GINGRICH: And neither -- and neither do you.
KELLY: That's right. And I'm not taking a position on it unlike you.
GINGRICH: Yes, you are. When you use the words you took a position.
KELLY: So, what I said...
GINGRICH: And I think it's very unfair for you to do that, Megyn.
KELLY: ... is incorrect.
GINGRICH: I think that is exactly the bias people are upset by.
KELLY: I think that your defensiveness on this may speak volumes, sir. And we do.
GINGRICH: Do you want to go back through the tapes of you recently? You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.
KELLY: Me, really?
GINGRICH: Now that's what I get out of watching you tonight.
KELLY: You know what? Mr. Speaker, I'm not fascinated by sex. But I am fascinated by the protection of women and understanding...
KELLY: ... what we're getting in the Oval Office.
KELY: And I think the American voters would like to know.
GINGRICH: And therefore we're going to send Bill Clinton back to the east wing because after all you were worried about sexual predators. Do you want to comment on whether the Clinton ticket has a relationship to a sexual predator?
KELLY: We, on The Kelly File have covered that story, as well, sir. I will tell you the polls.
GINGRICH: I want to hear you the words "Bill Clinton, sexual predator," I dare you. Say bill Clinton, sexual predator.
KELLY: Mr. Speaker, we covered...
GINGRICH: Disbarred by the Arkansas Bar.
KELLY: Excuse me. Excuse me.
GINGRICH: Disbarred by the Arkansas Bar, $850,000 penalty.
KELLY: Excuse me, sir. We, on The Kelly File have covered the Clinton matter, as well. We're going to have to leave it at that and you can take your anger issues and spend some time working on them, Mr. Speaker. Thanks for being with us.
GINGRICH: And you, too. And you, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That was a mic drop right there. I mean, considering that he is deficit with women, 20 percent. Hillary Clinton has a 20 percent lead with women, lieutenant governor. Does that -- how does that -- what Newt Gingrich did help...
MCCAUGHEY: The Republican Party has long had a deficit with women.
LEMON: But how does that help close that gap?
MCCAUGHEY: Well, let me point out this. First of all, I have had a long affection relationship of great affection and friendship with Megyn Kelly. I have enormous respect for how she runs her show.
But I do believe that the polls show that Americans are not buying this roll out of accusers and this bigger theme of man shaming and they want to get to the real issues.
And the latest Fox poll shows it very well, for example, 13 -- Trump is up 13 percent over Hillary Clinton nationwide with independent voters that includes women, as well as men.
LEMON: So, you think that exchange helps him with women.
MCCAUGHEY: Well, on the exchange, it just happened but the fact is what I'm saying is that Americans are watching this drum beat about this sexual accusations and they're saying I don't buy this. I want to hear about the economy.
LEMON: I understand your argument.
MCCAUGHEY: I want to hear about terror.
LEMON: I understand your argument but I have to say that you're a little bit off because this seems like that he's personally targeting someone who has been targeted by Donald Trump already. He was specifically talking about Megyn why she's obsessed with sex. I watch your show all the time.
MCCAUGHEY: It's always unfortunate to watch these things get personal. I mean, look at us. We disagree on so much but we've never had a fight.
MCCAUGHEY: I have enormous respect for how you run your show. You are so fair, right?
LEMON: Thank you. And I don't fight. I just want people to get people to get direct answers.
MCCAUGHEY: Right. I do think that...
LEMON: And then -- you'll have a problem with me when you don't give a direct answer. MCCAUGHEY: ... the polls show that people are not buying this roll out of accusers.
MCCAUGHEY: It's just fraudulent.
LEMON: Governor, get in on this, Granholm.
GRANOLM: Yes. Thank you. Fifty one percent of the populations are buying the accusers, number one. Number two, I just thought that that exchange was so disrespectful of Megyn Kelly, not only was she so utterly professional calling him Mr. Speaker, sir, and he, calling her Megyn, and pointing his finger and doing this whole mansplaining thing, I dare you.
It was so utterly -- I mean, I don't -- I'm not on that side of the aisle but I felt so offended for her and she was utterly poised. But that was a bullying effort on his part and you wonder why women are -- or whether -- he's -- why Trump has a 20-point deficit.
It's people like Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump, and Rudy Giuliani, who are coming out there with this great bombast asserting these things that are -- you know, that really when he tries to divert a way from what women really wants, they do want to hear about whether this person is a sexual predator.
[22:30:08] They do want to know whether that's true or not true. She was simply asking a question...
GRANHOLM: ... and all he did was attack her instead of attack the issue.
MCCAUGHEY: What he was getting at, and perhaps his style was a little more aggressive than you'd like. What he was getting at is how unfair it is for the media to hear an accusation that has absolutely no evidence and no witnesses behind it, and splash it across the front page of New York Times or up on a television screen without even telling the public, the viewers and the readers, that this accusation comes with no evidence.
LEMON: But with all due respect.
MCCAUGHEY: That's what happened...
LEMON: With all due respect, that was the same thing that the folks over at Bill Cosby -- Bill Cosby's camp said the same thing and then you see what his role is now.
(CROSSTALK) MCCAUGHEY: Well, and sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong.
LEMON: Sometimes they're wrong.
MCCAUGHEY: But think of the injustice of it. The Duke Lacrosse case, for example, the UVA rape case. Lives do came -- and then the truth comes out.
GRANHOLM: That they ruined and then you said -- but to say that there's no corroborating evidence is not true. In many of these cases there are -- there is corroborating evidence in the sense that these women told somebody at the time, or in the case of that Access Hollywood tape, there's actually Donald Trump on tape.
MCCAUGHEY: That's just words.
GRANHOLM: Or Donald Trump on tape talking to Howard Stern bragging about going in and to see...
MCCAUGHEY: Those are words.
GRANHOLM: Well, but it's his own words.
MCCAUGHEY: Those words are not against the law.
GRANHOLM: It's his own words.
MCCAUGHEY: Sexual assault is different. Let me just clarify what I said, Governor. In the case of Jessica Leeds, accuser number one, she went to the New York Times and said about 40 years ago I was seated on a plane and Donald Trump groped me.
The New York Times 48 hours later published that on the front page. They couldn't confirm the date that it happened, if it ever happened, or even the year.
The flight, the departure city, they had no witnesses. They had not one fact before they ran that on the front page of the New York Times. So, we have...
LEMON: And that's...
MCCAUGHEY: Let me go on. The point I wrote a piece for the New York Post where I reviewed each of these 11 accusations, and they came up very thin.
LEMON: That's in your estimation. That's the evidence that you had.
MCCAUGHEY: No, I'm just reviewing what evidence -- not my estimation. There was no evidence.
GRANHOLM: The question...
LEMON: Go ahead, Governor.
GRANHOLM: ... that I think, Don, was getting at though, is that you've got now two figures in the Republican Party -- or at least that have been allied with the conservative wing.
Megyn Kelly and Newt Gingrich going at one another at a time when Donald Trump is losing women. This does not help his 20-point deficit with women to see the Republican Party splinter like this.
So, I just think that his strategy of going after her as opposed to talking about the issues, talking about -- I mean, he could talk about whether these women -- whether it was accurate or not, but he didn't. He went right after her personally. What a terrible strategy that was.
MCCAUGHEY: Well, I agree that people don't like to see unpleasantness or cruelty or fighting on television. I agree with that, but getting to the really big issue...
LEMON: I've got to go. Quickly, Governor. Quickly, quickly, quickly.
MCCAUGHEY: Look, I've been a feminist for 50 years as you are have, governor. I was a very early female lieutenant governor of New York, one of the first Columbia professors into my department.
So, I feel this need to defend women. But now when I look at the workplace or college campuses or politics I see that men are constantly and unfairly put on the defensive. A man can't call a woman nasty.
MCCAUGHEY: But women can make any kind of accusations against a man.
LEMON: Yes. OK. OK. But also, when women -- women are afraid to come forward. And you can speak to this better than I -- anyone who is a victim of sexual assault, even men, are afraid to come forward because they're afraid people won't believe them and they're afraid of being shamed as it's happening in the media now, Governor Granholm.
GRANHOLM: Yes. And so, what does this to it causes them to think twice about coming forward. Obviously, no one wants to be accused of sexual harassment and no one wants to have to go through being sexually harassed.
In this case, you've got 10 people who have now bravely come forward even after hearing that Donald Trump says he is going to sue them for having done so because they think it's important to the country.
MCCAUGHEY: It's only whether they're telling the truth.
GRANHOLM: Whether it's...
LEMON: OK. I've got to go.
GRANHOLM: Well, of course. Of course. But what's in it for them. There's nothing in it for them.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, both. I appreciate it.
LEMON: Coming up, Trump's troubles with women voters just seem to be getting worse. Is the Newt Gingrich and Megyn Kelly battle the final nail in the coffin? Our panel will weigh in next.
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Newt Gingrich goes head to head with Megyn Kelly and Donald Trump cheers, but what about the voters?
Here to discuss now, Charles Blow, op-ed columnist at the New York Times, Kayleigh McEnany, a Trump supporter, democratic strategist Maria Cardona, a Clinton supporter, and CNN political commentator Scottie Nell Hughes, also a Clinton supporter -- a Trump supporter, right.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is it Halloween yet? That's my Halloween costume.
LEMON: I just want to see your reaction to that. So, we have been discussing, as I was discussing with the governor and lieutenant governor, Megyn Kelly, and Newt Gingrich, it got pretty heated last night.
He, telling Megyn that bizarrely she was fascinated by sex. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRICH: You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.
KELLY: Me? Really?
GINGRICH: So that's what I get out of watching you tonight. Do you want to comment on whether the Clinton ticket has a relationship to a sexual predator?
KELLY: We, on The Kelly File have covered that story, as well, sir. I will tell you the polls.
GINGRICH: I want to hear you the words "Bill Clinton, sexual predator," I dare you. Say Bill Clinton, sexual predator.
KELLY: We're going to have to leave it at that and you can take your anger issues and spend some time working on them, Mr. Speaker. Thanks for being with us.
GINGRICH: And you, too. And you, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mean, that was so awesome. Megyn. So, anyway. So, did he really do Donald Trump any favors last night with that exchange?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he did. And I mean, I want to say I appreciate Megyn Kelly a lot as a journalist. She's done a lot for the conservative movement in exposing some important stories.
That being said, I think mainstream America viewed that exchange far different than we here at the media view that exchange.
[22:40:04] Mainstream America has begged us to focus on the issues, and last night the frustration came out with Newt Gingrich that he wants to talk about public policy but we're not allowed to talk about...
LEMON: Kayleigh, hold on, that is not...
MCENANY: We can never talk about ObamaCare, and he never talk about the economy. We can only talk about sex in the mainstream media.
LEMON: That is not what Newt Gingrich said. Kayleigh, hold on. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That is not what he said. If he had said you guys in the mainstream media, or you should focus on what have you, he personally attacked Megyn Kelly.
He said she was fascinated with sex and then he watches her show -- he talked about her specifically he is seen as attacking a woman that had nothing to do with the media in general.
He was talking about her specifically, so how can you -- how can you spin into something that it is about the media. This was about Megyn Kelly.
MCENANY: It's not spinning it. He was talking about her show as a case...
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: He didn't say the media.
MCENANY: ... study at large.
LEMON: That's not what he said. That's what you're saying.
MCENANY: He said you. He said you. You interpreted that as you personally.
LEMON: He said you, meaning Megyn Kelly.
LEMON: He said I've watched your show. He said, I didn't say I've watched your show, I've watched Don Lemon's show, I've watched Bryan William's show, I've watched Jake Tapper, I've watched Anderson.
He said I've watched your show, Megyn Kelly. You are fascinated with sex. He did not broaden out to the media overall. That's a spin.
MCENANY: You interpreted that as you, Megyn Kelly. I interpreted that as you media at large.
LEMON: You're the only person in the world who said that.
MCENANY: No, I don't think so.
LEMON: I think you are.
MCENANY: And there's reason by the way the media has the lowest trust ever in recorded Gallup history it's because all we talk about are things like this. You never talk about the issue.
LEMON: Yes, but you're part of the media, as well.
MCENANY: No, no, I'm not part of the media.
LEMON: Yes, you are. You're on television.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are, Kayleigh.
MCENANY: No. I'm someone here who is supporting Trump and the Republican Party. I'm not part of the media. Don't put that title on me.
LEMON: Yes, go ahead, Charles.
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Are you getting a check?
BLOW: Are you getting paid by a news organization? HUGHES: You're an opinion person. Mr. Charles you and I are
LOW: That's right. One second -- you're getting a check, you're part of the media.
MCENANY: I'm not a journalist. I'm an opinion person.
BLOW: You're not a journalist; I will definitely give you that.
MCENANY: I'm not part of the media. I'm an opinion person.
BLOW: But you are part of the media, right. You're getting a check from this -- from this studio. But just one second. But let me just say this. I really don't have -- I don't have a problem with somebody being fascinated with sex, but what Donald Trump was talking about is not sex.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
BLOW: Assault is not sex, and the -- and the real problem here is that republicans -- particularly people -- and Donald Trump can't keep not understanding that there is a canyon of difference between sex, which is always consensual, and assault, which is any forcible touching of anybody's body, that is assault. There's not -- nothing sexual about that.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.
BLOW: And if he -- and if Megyn is asking a question that came out of this man's mouth himself, whether he would say now he's joking about it, he now says he never did it, he now says all the women who have accused him are telling a lie, he say all of that, that's fine.
But I do believe you have to cover -- if it comes out of the candidates' mouth -- she was covering a lot of things -- at that question and he went off the rails and this is a man who -- Newt Gingrich, who also has confessed to cheating on his wife.
BLOW: So what is your fascination, Newt.
LEMON: Go ahead.
HUGHES: OK. If you're going to go to this whole idea that just because she's getting a check that makes her a member of the media, then we're going to say that politicians...
BLOW: You are, too. HUGHES: I'm a proud member of the media. I will definitely because
that's my background, that's what I studied to be. That's like saying politicians who get, you know, checks from lobbyists make them to be, you know, absolutely scum, or that they get to be the cockroaches that, you know, that they're part of those companies that they get checks from.
That's just not necessarily. We bring people on here because they're experts in their area. That does not make them a member of us. They don't have the same responsibility.
BLOW: No, no, no, no.
HUGHES: You and I do, OK?
LEMON: That doesn't make you part of the media.
BLOW: First of all, we're not in the same boat. I consider myself to be in the media.
HUGHES: Now we -- I do too. But we're in opinion journalist.
BLOW: Right. But what I'm saying is -- what I'm saying is this...
HUGHES: The point is...
BLOW: The media point -- when you're getting a check from a media company.
BLOW: If you're on contract with the media company, you are then part of that media and for people to keep coming out saying the media is so horrible, you're part of this, too.
HUGHES: So, my point about -- I hear you. First of all, the fact that we're having to talk about sex and we are talking about ducks and we're talking about...
LEMON: Sexual assault.
HUGHES: ... kitty cats, first, the issues that we're having 13 days out I think we are definitely giving a disservice to the American people right now.
MCENANY: Yes. HUGHES: That's not what they want to be talking about. Whether the candidates bring it or not, whether their campaigns, both sides are responsible for bringing it or not, that's not what they want to hear.
LEMON: So, why did Newt Gingrich respond to.
HUGHES: So because he was asked a question. Here you have the former speaker of the house, who I believe -- actually the reason why Bill Clinton...
LEMON: Ask me -- ask me the question that Megyn last night.
HUGHES: Do you believe I was sexually -- I think her question was do you believe...
BLOW: No, she said -- no, she started with...
LEMON: No comment, Megyn, I would rather not discuss it.
HUGHES: And you know what? You can advise Newt Gingrich. But the question is, here we have the former speaker of the house, a person who I believe while Hillary tells her husband's economics and how great he was for the economy, I actually thought on the republican Congress Newt Gingrich led. Let -- that would be a great opportunity. Let's talk about the economics. Let's talk about Donald Trump's economic...
LEMON: Where he...
CARDONA: But he didn't take it. He didn't take it.
BLOW: While Newt was leading the impeachment of Bill Clinton he was cheating on his wife.
CARDONA: That's right. He was cheating.
BLOW: He's the last -- no, that wasn't personal. That was our money. We paid for that impeachment. That is our money.
[22:45:07] HUGHES: But you didn't -- you don't pay for -- we paid for Bill Clinton's cheating.
HUGHES: Leave it out of it. If we can't talk about Bill Clinton's past, then we can't talk about Newt Gingrich's past.
CARDONA: There's two things here.
LEMON: Maria Cardona.
CARDONA: Thank you. There's two things here. First of all, to your point, Charles, Gingrich is the last person...
BLOW: The last person.
CARDONA: ... the last person on earth who should be talking about this.
BLOW: Amen and hallelujah.
CARDONA: Here you have, you know, you a serial cheater who has been married, I don't know how many times defending a sexual predator for who is a candidate for the presidency.
HUGHES: He is a sexual predator. He is a convicted -- you cannot put that statement.
CARDONA: And secondly, and secondly, the problem is that, you know, Kayleigh and you and everybody keeps saying that we need to talk about the issues. Well, guess what.
When you have 11 women who are coming out accusing you of sexual assault, and when you have your own words saying that this is what you like to do with beautiful women, because you can't help yourself, then I'm sorry, as a mother of two young children, that is an issue.
MCENANY: I just find it...
LEMON: I have to say though -- I have to say that...
CARDONA: It's an issue for the American people and...
LEMON: He's been accused of predator behavior; he's not a sexual predator.
MCENANY: Yes. And I find it so interesting, and here is what's so interesting. I know you, the viewers are so much smarter than this and you watch this and every time they go into sex that's what the Hillary Clinton campaign wants to talk about.
They go into sex because Hillary loses on the issues. Your premiums are up...
CARDONA: We're not bringing it up.
MCENANY: ... your paychecks are down.
LEMON: Sexual -- we're talking about...
MCENANY: ... you don't have the jobs, you can't afford college...
LEMON: Kayleigh, stand by. Kayleigh -- Kayleigh. This is -- Kayleigh...
MCENANY: ... and here I am to talk about it here, we can't talk about it here.
LEMON: Whoa, I'm the host of the show. I'll talk to the camera, you can discuss us.
So, but that is not what is happening here. Newt Gingrich responded to that question, we're in the middle of a presidential campaign, where Donald Trump has been accused by 10 women of sexually predatory behavior. That is...
BLOW: For doing what he said he did.
LEMON: That is a huge issue and again, as I said to you before as someone who is a survivor of that, that is a big issue for me. And people do want to know who they're getting when they're going into the White House and they vying for the White House.
MCENANY: Don, I'm not...
LEMON: And you're saying that this is not an important issue for the American people by saying...
LEMON: Hold on. By saying that there are other issues that are more important. Sure, there are other issues but every issue is equally as important.
MCENANY: Don, I am not agreeing with you, that kissing allegations should be covered. I'm not disagreeing with you there. Where I am disagreeing with is that on a scale...
LEMON: Kissing allegations?
MCENANY: ... of seven to one, we can talk about the issues here. Have you ever heard about ObamaCare? Have you ever heard about the economy? We don't do segments on that because we just know talk about these allegations. I haven't heard you talking on that.
LEMON: We've done segments on that. That, first of all, hold on, hold on, hold on, stop it, please. That is not -- that is patently false.
MCENANY: When do we a segment on ObamaCare?
LEMON: That is patently false.
CARDONA: Five days. Three yesterday.
LEMON: I just talked about -- just talked about ObamaCare with Mark McKinnon. You weren't part of that segment. We talked about it last night. We talked...
MCENANY: Right. Because Trump supporters aren't a part of that.
LEMON: Because Trump supporters are not a part of that?
MCENANY: We're not a part of that conversation. We're not allowed to talk about that.
CARDONA: I was on three times with a trump...
HUGHES: But you're not talking about ObamaCare.
LEMON: Yes. That is a complete -- that is a complete deflection. And we'll be right back and we'll continue to talk about and maybe we might even talk ObamaCare. Who knows?
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: And we're back now with Charles Blow, Kayleigh McEnany, Maria Cardona, and Scottie Nell Hughes.
So, this is -- both Gingrich and Donald Trump reacting today to what we were just discussing. Gingrich tweeted this today, "For the record, Megyn Kelly was wrong. I don't have anger management issues. I do have media-bias issues." To Kayleigh McEnany's point, and then here's what Donald Trump said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: By the way, congratulations, Newt, on last night. That was an amazing interview.
That was an amazing -- we don't play games, Newt, right? We don't play games.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, the question as you said, he's -- they're saying now that it was media bias even though it wasn't framed that way in the original conversation.
I'm wondering as a Clinton supporter, do you -- are you like yay, these two -- you know, someone on the conservative network and his -- you know, one of his number one surrogates are out fighting?
CARDONA: Well, I just think it underscores what the narrative is, not just about Donald Trump, but about somebody like Newt Gingrich.
You know, the hypocrisy is just incredible when they are talking about this, and then when they blame the media for an issue that Donald Trump can't help himself, but bring up every single time he talks to the public.
And so, yes, we would love to talk about issues but like I said before when you have this front and center that Donald Trump put front and center, nobody else; no network, wasn't CNN, wasn't Fox News. Nobody else put this front and center. Nobody else put words in Donald Trump's mouth in the '90s on the Howard Stern show talking about he doesn't respect women.
LEMON: Do we have the -- I want the Newt sound bite from 2012 if we can get that...
CARDONA: And the media and the Hollywood Access.
LEMON: Let me know when we have it. OK.
HUGHES: These are the things last night. Both of them won. And it was amazing to watch -- to watch this happening to real time action on social media, and there is also here in the newsroom.
The people that are against Mr. Trump, they cheered. They thought Megyn was awesome. She put Newt in his place and in that way putting Trump in his place. That if you were a supporter of Mr. Trump, finally told -- someone finally called out the bias that they feel like Megyn Kelly has been since she was the moderator of the first debate.
Both sides feel emboldened by last night's interview.
CARDONA: That is true. That is true.
BLOW: I don't if both sides. I don't know. I mean, listen, they can have their whole, you know, dual to the death in the thunder dome mad max situation. I don't care what they do.
What's important to me is that we do not advance rape culture, that we do not sweep that under the rug, that if -- there's way that you respond to -- even to allegations, even if they're wrong, at least you admit that you -- what you said to the media by the way, Entertainment Tonight is part of the media, you were mike up. He's a smart guy, he's been doing media for his whole live, been
calling in pretending to be P.R. agent even to media, been using media in his whole life. He knows better than talk to the media in that way with a mic on.
He did that to himself and he cannot then turn around and say well, the media is bias because they're using my words that came out of my mouth.
[22:55:03] LEMON: Well, listen. I want to play this. I want to play this. This is not the first time that he's had a fight with a reporter over sex questions. Play this 2012.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She says that you came to her in 1999 at a time when you're having an affair; she says you asked her, sir, to enter into an open marriage. Would you like to take some time to respond to that?
GINGRICH: No, but I will.
I think -- I think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract decent people to run for public office and I am appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that.
LEMON: So, in that one, he talked about the media, but if -- when a candidate's private life is in the news, wouldn't press be remiss not to ask about it?
MCENANY: Look, Don, I just think you brought up the most salient point I've seen brought up today by playing that clip. Because for those of us, Scottie and I who watched that moment. I know you saw it one way.
But for us, we remembered that moment in 2012, and we remembered cheering Newt Gingrich and saying, yes, this should be about issues. This is a national stage where you get to tell the American people what you're going to do for them and it's insulting to the American people to bring up sex allegations.
You just made the most salient point I think has been made today by playing that clip because for us it harkened back to 2012.
LEMON: Those are two different conversations.
HUGHES: Right. It shows the motivation of the media. LEMON: I've got to go. Quick, quick.
CARDONA: But here's the thing. That was good for Gingrich and it helped him win the South Carolina primary. It didn't help him win the primary obviously or the election.
LEMON: Right. And Kayleigh is not right.
CARDONA: And this is the case with Donald Trump. You were right. The people who supported Donald Trump saw that as I win.
LEMON: I got -- I got to go.
CARDONA: It did not add any voters to Donald Trump.
LEMON: Obviously it helped him. I mean, look, president...
HUGHES: He's helped him in the right, and in some polls.
LEMON: It must have helped him, President Gingrich.
CARDONA: Not because of that.
MCENANY: That'd be great.
LEMON: We will be right back.
MCENANY: That is President Obama.
[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)