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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Anti-Trump Protests in Several Cities; Many Demonstrations Centered Around Trump-Owned Properties. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 9, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:18] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for joining us this hour of "360".
On the first day, we live in a nation with a President-elect Donald Trump. On the streets tonight, multiple major American cities, people are demonstrating.
Jean Casarez joins us from outside Trump Tower in New York. You're seeing scenes there in Chicago -- look at that highway, by the way. Before we go to Jean, look at -- if we can go back to that shot in Chicago, the highway, basically traffic just stopped on that highway as protesters moving through.
That's obviously a situation very difficult for police. It's similar to kind of Black Lives Matter protests we saw in New York maybe a year or two ago on the West Side Highway in New York, where traffic is just stopped as protesters change directions with these kind of mobile rolling protests that are not necessarily -- there's no permit for, it's just a lot of folks on the move and we've seen this now in New York where Jean Casarez is standing by outside Trump Tower.
Jean, how long has this been going on for because I know you've been following this crowd which started in Union Square which is down in 14th Street in New York, now you're in Midtown around 56, 57th Street.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. This group has protested about 40 blocks up. It started about 6:00 tonight, Anderson. And what they are saying here is that they are opposing Donald Trump's election last night and they're changing their chants.
The New York Police Department is estimating that about 5,000 people are here tonight. Their signs are, "Trump is not our voice," "Don't make America hate again," "Not my president," "Black Lives Matter," "Rapist," "Trump means more war".
And we wanted to talk with somebody right who has been a part of this protest.
Nick Powers, thanks for joining us. Why did you come out tonight?
NICK POWERS, PROTESTER: I think I came out here to let go of a lot of fear that was sparked as soon as I saw the results and part of it was a deep fear of a racist reaction that Donald Trump will reenact harsher stop and frisk laws that will wind up putting so many people back into prison, also a deep fear at the sexism that will be bubbling up through United States.
Because you saw this incredibly qualified woman to be president being superseded by man who has no qualifications at all for the office. And so, I'm here because, also, I'm afraid for the people who might get deported, having their doors kicked down by ICE teams and being sent back across to countries that are falling apart.
CASAREZ: Are you upset at the Democratic Party at all that Hillary was the nominee and not Bernie Sanders? Because many believe here that Bernie Sanders could have permeated that wall and actually beat Donald Trump last night.
POWERS: That's a good question and a lot of people are feeling that. And, of course, I wanted Bernie to be the one but when I saw that here's an incredibly qualified woman to be the president losing against somebody who's unqualified, I have to wonder how much of sexism was at play in these votes.
And then more importantly that the policies that Hillary Clinton was putting out were -- even though they were less than I wanted, were far superior than the policies that Donald Trump was advocating when he can actually put together a coherent position. And now he doesn't have to do the thinking. Now, he's got Pence, and Newt Gingrich, and Giuliani and a whole right wing establishment that's going to feed him the ideas that he himself would not come up with.
CASAREZ: Now, our national leaders, including our president, Obama, is asking the country to come together to support Donald Trump, to give him a chance. Will you do that?
POWERS: I'm going to respect the institutions so I will respect the institution of the presidency but I'm also going to respect the institution of protest.
In the constitution, we have the right to protest for rights and to also protect each other. And so, I will respect that he is the president but I'm going to fight every single day to make sure he's one term and that the policies that he rolls down don't roll over the human beings that will be destroyed by his policies.
CASAREZ: All right. Thank you so much for joining us.
You know, Anderson, Socialist Advantage is the group that advertised this on Facebook and I think they got more people than they ever dreamed they were going to get.
But I do have to tell you as we were walking from Union Square up here, there was a man on a bicycle that was bicycling through the group and he said, "Stop protesting, go to WikiLeaks." So he was here also giving his message tonight. But as you can see, these people are passionate, Anderson, in their belief that Donald Trump should not be the next president of the United States. COOPER: And this is an extraordinary scene. I mean, this is a major intersection in the Midtown Manhattan, if you've been to New York, and it's one of the busiest intersections there is and it is come to a standstill as you see right there.
[21:05:04] We're going to continue with our panel in just a moment. I think Paul Begala or Van Jones is going to sign up that young man.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it was a young Van Jones.
COOPER: Yeah, I think so. And it's a time warp with that hair.
But joining me more also as we continue to watch these protests is more on the impact the Trump presidency could have on the world and world reaction, Fareed Zakaria, CNN World Affairs analyst and host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS".
I mean, Fareed, in terms of a Trump foreign policy, is it clear to you what exactly that will look like? There were a lot of different things said, obviously, over the course of the campaign about his belief about America's role in the world, about nation building or, you know, alliances. Where -- how do you see things moving forward now?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, it's not entirely clear, Anderson, because he has been erratic and all over the place in many areas. But what I'm hearing and reading from people abroad, the concern is this, the United States has been the upholder, the preserver and the guarantor of a kind of international order ever since the end of World War II, since the United States helped lead that coalition to defeat the fascism in Europe.
It set up an international system and it has been in a way the upholder of it. America through its words, its deeds, its actions, its foreign policy. Trump seems to dissent from that. He has said so many things that seem to suggest that he'd rather every country go on its own and that is what worries our allies in Europe, allies in Asia.
Does he really mean that the Japanese should just fend for themselves and maybe get nuclear weapons, the South Koreans the same? You know, let's kind of deal with Putin so we don't have to worry about this business in Ukraine. Should Saudi Arabia get nuclear weapons?
You know, that's the part that I find worries most people. It's truly freaking out people in Eastern Europe because they really see their security imperiled. But it's worrying and upsetting lots of people because they're all wondering, international security and, you know, global peace, it's not an exaggeration to say has rested on these bipartisan policies that the United States has followed for 75 years. Are they in jeopardy? Nobody really knows.
COOPER: Well, I mean, one of the things that Donald Trump, of course, has talked about a lot during this campaign is making U.S. allies pay their fair share as members of NATO, things which, frankly, other presidents, the U.S. has tried to make them do for -- with varying levels of success and in many cases not success. That's certainly something it seems like is a priority for Donald Trump.
And I guess the question is, you know, I think we heard from France's President Hollande today saying that it now opens a period of uncertainty. How important do you think it is for Trump to convey a sense of stability and continuity to allies right now?
ZAKARIA: It's deeply important. I think you hit on it, Anderson, uncertainty is the issue. If it were simply about the idea that allies should pay more, well, presidents going back to Jimmy Carter have demanded that America's allies pay more, in some cases they have, in some cases they haven't. Obama actually, the 2 percent rule that Trump has been talking about was something Obama was quite insistent on and again some have and some haven't and you always face complicated negotiations with countries. But the more general fear and the uncertainty is just does this guy believe in America's role in the world? Does he believe that the United States has been, you know, a force that has upheld security and created an international economy and, you know, does he want to continue that kind of benign role that the United States has played in the world?
COOPER: And, of course, I mean, there's so many questions about what does this mean about the fight against ISIS. Donald Trump has talked about, you know, bombing the hell out of them, about it's going to end quickly, he's going to get it done. You know, the military leadership, U.S./Russia relations, the Iran deal. I mean, there's a lot which is potentially on the table, even the international climate agreement.
ZAKARIA: Yeah, on the Middle East I think it's fair to say he's really been all over the place because he at times has said bomb the hell out of ISIS. At other times he said why should we be involved there? Let Russia do it. He's also talked about essentially unraveling the Iran deal and approaching Iran with a new and greater level of hostility which would suggest a more militarized American foreign policy in the Middle East or a more confrontational one at any event. And some of this is contradictory because, of course, the Iranians have been perhaps the principal force fighting ISIS in the region in terms of outside powers.
So some of that, you know, can all be sorted out. He has a lot of latitude because presidents have enormous latitude in foreign policy. He doesn't have to follow the things he's said.
[21:09:58] One of the things we're going to learn as we go ahead, Anderson, is whether Donald Trump's off-the-cuff remarks on foreign policy, as on many other things, were expressions of a deep instincts that Trump had or were they just off-the-cuff remarks he realized he had to have a position on these things and then when confronted with the tradeoffs he will settle for a more sober policy. And one sign of that, Anderson, may be whom will he appoint to the key roles? There are very serious people in the Republican Party whom he could appoint. We don't know where he's going to go with that.
COOPER: Yeah. You know, the best made plans often don't survive, you know, mulling the saying, but don't survive the first brush with actual combat. So once a person is actually in office, many times things are different. We'll watch and see.
Fareed Zakaria, thanks.
We're back with the panel, John King, David Axelrod, David Gergen, Dana Bash, Kayleigh McEnany, Jeffrey Lord, Paul Begala and Van Jones.
I mean, Van, you know, you were talking about who the -- a lot of the people are out there, a lot of young people, we heard from that gentleman earlier explaining his position very, very well.
VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yeah, I mean, the structure of this is going to be the far left in small numbers but loud and sometimes getting a lot of attention but small and then Sanders and Black Lives Matter. That's the structure of what you could call an anti-Trump resistance in the streets that will play itself out.
COOPER: Does it burn itself out?
JONES: It may. It's going to get cold and (inaudible) coming.
COOPER: Because he was saying that he basically wanted to come out because he woke up feeling fear and wanted to kind of get rid of it.
JONES: The most important thing I want people to hear is fear. He said the word fear, four or five or six times. I don't think people understand -- listen, it's an inkblot test, I agree. Trump said some things that were good and some things that were maybe off-the-cuff but those things are off-the-cuff landed like a bomb for some people and we just have to deal with that.
JEFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: To quote one of my favorite Democrats, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
BEGALA: Well, David made this point an hour ago which is this, the prophet Hosea said those who sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind, right, or (inaudible) a reaction equal and opposite reaction. It's not simply that Donald Trump won, but it is the way that he conducted himself in the campaign which inspired a lot of people to vote but inspired a lot of fear. And he is the most divisive person we've ever elected to be president, certainly, in our lifetime and this is, in some ways, just the laws of physics coming back into play that there's going to be an equal and opposite reaction.
But his life is about to change in profound ways and the question is how does he handle that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To Fareed's point, to the point you're making about what you're seeing on the streets, he is now going to get the real briefing. He gets the president's daily briefing now. During the campaign they get sort of college briefings, the college version of the intelligence briefing that David can tell you, Paul, can tell you, Jeffrey. You know, you can see a president who's really cheery over coffee in the morning at the first breakfast meeting when you're talking about the budget and then he goes and gets reads the PDB and gets brief on what's happening in the world and goes to ashen face.
Donald Trump is about to learn about the world, and I don't say that disrespectfully, any president, whether it's Ronald Reagan, whether it's Bill Clinton, whether it's Barack Obama, this changes your life.
And so the decisions he makes after this, to Fareed's point about who he surrounds himself with, whether he, you know, uses -- sometimes Bill Clinton on weekends would walk through the White House when you're covering the White House and you say where are you going? And he'd be in jeans and a sweatshirt, and he say, "I'm going to the Oval. I'm thinking about something big. I like to sit in the office and think about the big decisions."
When he's there with the president of the United States tomorrow, that plays when you walk into the Oval Office and the two Davids know, it just -- you know, either as a reporter even and it's just, wow, it's a sanctuary of American democracy and Donald Trump's going to go through this transition.
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Because he doesn't have a track record on a lot of this, just the statements of a campaign, who he surrounds himself as secretary of state, as the national security advisor? Because Fareed's absolutely right, uncertainty is what the world cannot tolerate, the financial markets cannot tolerate. His first order of business has to be to put a team together that reassures people ...
COOPER: Dana, do you have some news ...
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: On that note -- well, first of all, I would just tell you what somebody close to him texted me, and I'll just read it. "Now you will see the Donald Trump -- now you will see Donald Trump the president, not Donald Trump the candidate." Now, we don't know what that is, we'll wait and see, but ...
COOPER: And that could something that Donald Trump himself used to say a lot early on the primary.
BASH: Absolutely. But to your point ...
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: It might be Donald Trump.
BASH: It's John Baron.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: But I think we just ...
BASH: But just to add to what you are saying about who he surrounds himself with, there is pressure on him, maybe pressure is too strong, people are encouraging him to do the chief of staff really fast and then in the next two weeks to do the big five cabinet and to reassure people ...
COOPER: It's also telling ...
BASH: ... pay the picture.
COOPER: I mean, from the beginning when he was talking about his vice president -- potential vice presidential pick he was always saying he wanted somebody who knew Washington, who could help him actually with Congress and that was, you know ...
[21:15:01] GERGEN: And he made a very reasonable pick in Mike Pence. I think the collision here potentially on the first five that he names and then the people who follow is that his -- the people who are working those transitions have been vetting various names of who might be good candidates or not and they're taking off the list people who opposed him during the campaign or may have said something negative about him on social media. And I would just tell you, if they restrict it to the circle of loyalists, they're going to have problems down the road.
With Reagan, Tom Barrack who the -- whom I think is one of his best advisors who was on the air about an hour and a half ago, praised the way Reagan went at this.
In Reagan's case, the day after he got elected he named his chief of staff and he named someone who had ran two campaigns against him and it was Jim Baker. It turned out to be one of the best appointments he made.
COOPER: Wasn't he the velvet hammer?
GERGEN: Yes, he was the velvet hammer. You and he have a lot of similarities.
GERGEN: Yeah, yeah.
COOPER: I'll take that as a good thing.
BASH: He's going to call you the velvet hammer.
COOPER: No, in college I remember watching him and sort of admiring him from afar.
GERGEN: Well, and he -- and the Trump reached out to him earlier in the campaign and I think he's exactly the kind of person he ought to be talking to because if he restricts himself just to the loyalists that tends to get presidents in trouble.
Paul will remember I think in the early Clinton months one of the problems he had was he took a lot of people who had been in campaigns, other campaigns they said, no, we're not bringing them there.
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: Opposite story is I had very little to do with the transition because we had a new baby but I remember being in one meeting and George Stephanopoulos suggested Mike McCurry to be the State Department spokesman. McCurry had been a spokesman for one of Clinton's primary opponents and was accused of spreading rumors, shocking, shocking that Clinton may have played around his wife, right?
In the meeting Clinton said -- somebody said, well, he spread rumors, he was with the opposition. Clinton said wait a minute, he was against me and now he wants to be for me, he wants to join our team, and George you say he's good, what am I missing? And Mike McCurry went straight to the State Department, that's ...
GERGEN: Yeah, but Mike McCurry was lined up to go to the White House and they vetoed him for the White House.
BEGALA: He had to go to purgatory -- before he came to heaven he had to do a little time in purgatory.
BASH: A reality check, obviously this is a very different dynamic and it's not -- it hasn't been that they're shunning people who are dying to get into the Trump administration. Until today, I am told, the big issue was they couldn't get people to commit to doing the jobs and I say until today I was told that now that he actually is the president- elect things have changed.
COOPER: Funny how that changes.
AXELROD: He's going to have to make a decision, though, because it's a delicate balance. He just did get elected by what he calls a movement. And people like Kayleigh are going to be watching -- and Jeffrey are going to be watching closely to see if the people he appoints are establishment people or are they movement people.
COOPER: But I also think -- I do think it's important. I mean, I was getting like texts from people I went to high school that I haven't heard from -- in ages who are very liberal, who are, you know, upset today and I mean, I do think there's a certain -- I remember when Ronald Reagan was elected and I was in high school at the time but there was this great ...
LORD: So were David and I.
COOPER: ... cry about the world coming to an end from a lot of liberals and I'm not, you know, comparing them and I'm not saying, you know, Ronald Reagan didn't have issues and ...
LORD: Anderson, you are exactly right.
COOPER: I mean, the institutions of democracy continue. I mean, the country continues to move forward, you cannot like the way it's tacking left or right but ...
COOPER: ... it's not as if the world comes to an end.
LORD: I mean, and to go back even further, when Jimmy Carter muscled his way through the Democratic primaries -- meaning he defeated the Democratic establishment and then started summoning people to Plains, Georgia to, you know, this little town down there in (inaudible) interview for this, that and the other job, there was all this conversation about, well, who are these people and what are these Plains people and what are these Georgians and all of that kind of thing.
This happens when presidential administrations change and the only real difference here is -- in the case of Hillary Clinton, had she won, is that she'd been here for 30 years. But when you're an outsider as Ronald Reagan was arguably as a governor and not a Washingtonian, when you're a Jimmy Carter, same sort of situation, that's the attitude you get ...
COOPER: But I think we'll also going to see a lot of old names which are certainly new again coming back again.
KING: Remember in his rallies, "Lock her up. I will appoint a special prosecutor."
COOPER: Investigator, yeah.
KING: What will he do on that question?
KING: I'm fascinated about what he says about that question in the 10 weeks between now and being president because his people want a special prosecutor. His voters want to lock her up. Donald Trump would do a lot to unify the country if he said "Let's close the chapter."
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break and continue the discussion next as we continue to watch protests in a number of cities across the country.
Also ahead, Trump had better-than-expected success with Latino voters despite some of the rhetoric that started his campaign continued throughout. John King breaks down those numbers in a moment as well.
[21:23:54] COOPER: And our breaking news, protests occurring in a number of major American cities across the country. You're looking at Chicago right there, demonstrations against the election of Donald Trump as president.
I want to check back in with our Jason Carroll, who is with protesters outside Trump Tower.
Jason, have the crowds gotten any smaller? I mean, it's been going on -- we've been covering this for now for the past hour and half.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
COOPER: They've been outside Trump Tower.
CARROLL: Well, it's a dedicated group of demonstrators out here, Anderson. The crowd has not really gotten that much smaller. You can say look -- you can see right where Trump Tower is on Fifth Avenue, that section between 56th and 57th, still blocked by thousands of protester who jammed into the street here. You can see that one man up there on a street light.
Basically what we're being told by police is that they've got -- most of these protesters sectioned off in a pen and they're going to allow them to basically do their thing for -- at least for a while. We've not been given any indication as to how long some of them will be out here.
I want to bring in some of the protesters who have come out. They weren't able to get in the pen. They're sort of outside the pen here. We're standing in the middle of 57th Street here, Anderson, and Fifth Avenue. We've been talking little earlier about what happened last night, why you're out here voicing your anger. You, sir?
[21:25:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm actually here to support the outrage of what happened and I'm not surprised, I'm not shocked, I've been having this conversation with my friends over the last year and a half and I was expecting a turnout like this because Trump did something very interesting. He went and opened the key and turned the key to little feelings that people are having in this country.
CARROLL: And what kind of feelings do you think he turned the key on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Racism, separatism, division. All those things that he's been actually running on and those people that are dormant waiting for somebody to come and say it's OK to feel this way. I actually was born and raised in a country with demagogues and despots and dictators.
CARROLL: You said you were from Argentina?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, I was born in Argentina. I'm actually an American. I've been here for 29 years and it's amazing in a country like this, in a country I came to get away from (inaudible). We actually live in this right now.
CARROLL: I think a lot of people are going to be looking at, you know, all of these people who are out here and some of them might be saying where were all these people yesterday who supported Hillary Clinton or even during early voting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They actually voted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They voted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they're basically in shock because of the media, I would say, said the polls are showing that Hillary was ahead of everyone but, yet early in the evening it showed that Trump was way ahead. And so -- and it progressed and progressed and it just doesn't pan out.
CARROLL: Trump now says what he wants to do is he wants to be the president of all the people regardless of race, background, religion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does he take back everything he's already said in these debates and how do we have people watching these debates, these two people and the intelligence level between these two people where -- who are supposed to both be educated and I'm just confused here. He now wants to be for all of the people when before he wanted to be for some of the people? Who are all of the people, because we live in a diverse nation and yet we're not being represented?
CARROLL: Can I -- but can I ask you a question. So this meant that the people have spoken and so, I guess, my question to all of you is where do you think you go from here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I just think that the country really comes together depending on what side you're -- of the fence you're on. I just really hope that we can come together as one nation. It's going to sound a little corny, but one nation under God and, you know, we just move forward. You know, tomorrow is a different day, everyone is protesting, freedom of speech, but I just really hope that everyone everywhere whether it's here in the U.S. or anywhere else protesting that everyone just comes together and everyone is just unified and there is no craziness, no outbreaks of any sorts and we can just move forward from here.
CARROLL: Thank you very much. I want to thank all of you for joining me and keep doing what you're doing out there protesting. Thank you very much, peacefully.
Anderson, you know, the president-elect has made it very clear that what he wants to do is be a unifier going forward but it's also very clear he really is going to have his work cut out for him. Anderson?
COOPER: Jason Carroll, thanks very much. As you pointed out, actually, where you can see the White House behind us, we can actually now hear protesters outside not too far from where we are, I don't have -- we don't -- I can't really see it but actually we have a camera there on it. We heard protesters chanting -- I think I heard Black Lives Matter and no more hate as well.
MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: No more hate.
COOPER: We heard those from protesters and others that we have heard tonight, we've seen this in a number of cities, we've seen Chicago, Portland, Oregon, Oakland, New York City as well, Philadelphia, there's obviously some of the protesters that we've heard from tonight say there's a sense of fear, fear of what they see as Donald Trump's sexism or racism that they believe was expressed during the campaign.
As far as the race, though, and taking a look at the numbers, 88 percent of African-American voters supported Hillary Clinton, 65 percent of Latinos did as well.
John King is back to break it down by the numbers. Where did he do better than past Republicans to make up for those numbers?
KING: Well, let's look first at the working class vote, you talked about that in a sense. Again, I want to make clear, a lot of people think that millions of voters who hadn't voted before came out of the woodwork to vote for Donald Trump. That's not true. He got fewer votes than John McCain and fewer votes than Mitt Romney. What happened is Democrats stayed home. But among those voters who did come out to vote for Donald Trump we do have a profound divide in this country on gender issues, on race issues, and on income issues.
Look at white no college degree voters, Rust Belt whites. These are Rust Belt states. Romney support -- Romney won these voters without a doubt but Donald Trump won them by much bigger margins. This should be nine points. They adjusted the numbers. Nine points in Wisconsin, seven in Michigan, eight in Pennsylvania, six in Ohio.
[21:30:08] So white blue-collar voters in the Rust Belt without a college degree absolutely were the engine that fuelled this. Donald Trump turning one, two, three states that had been blue since the 1980s red. There's no doubt about it.
But there's also an issue, you see those protesters Jason Carroll is with. There's no question Hillary Clinton had a much more diverse coalition. Democrats thought because of the demographics of this country that diverse coalition was going to power her to the White House just like it did President Obama twice.
But look what happened, there was a drop off. President Obama got 93 percent of the African-American vote four years ago, Hillary Clinton dropped off a little bit to 88 percent. Latinos dropped off a little bit, 6 percent. Asians dropped off 8 percent. Independent voters dropped off, younger voters dropped off a little bit. Not only the percentages, Anderson. The percentages is almost don't matter as much as the math, the raw numbers.
In so many of the key states, Detroit, for example, Milwaukee, for example, African-American turnout, other Democratic base turnout like young people was down, she might have won the percentage, she might win 65 percent in the county and you say wow, she's on track to crush Donald Trump in that county but the raw vote totals were down and then Donald Trump in a state like this, look at Wisconsin, runs it up in the white rural areas, turnout for Democrats, sure she gets 66 percent of the vote but the raw numbers are down. And guess what? Wisconsin is red for the first time since the 1980s. So that's what happened.
I want to show you one more quick map as we go through, watch Jason Carroll out there tonight. There are red states and blue states. There is a deep divide in United States. I like to use this map, Democrats don't like it. These are house districts in the United States of America. Look at all that red. Look at all this red in this map. We live in a center right country. There's a reason Republicans hold more governorships, Republicans have the Senate Majority and Republicans have the House Majority.
This is America, blue out on the coasts, but most of the middle of America, except for Minnesota, some areas in the Midwest, is very deep red. And that's the challenge for Donald Trump. How does he deal with those protesters in the streets in New York, in Washington, D.C. now, in Chicago, in Seattle? Those are blue areas. How does Donald Trump deal with them when the people who made him president live in these red areas, they want to build a wall, they want tough action on immigration. Other issues he can work with Democrats, so on issues like trade, things like that. There are some places where he can work especially with voters in the states that he flipped from blue to red.
COOPER: So, John, earlier in the last hour, Paul Begala, you know, who was running a -- working with the pro-Clinton super PAC said essentially he believed there was just an enthusiasm gap that Donald Trump had more enthusiasm among his supporters. That's what you agree with as well. I mean, the actual total number of Republicans voting for Donald Trump, you said, was lower than John McCain and lower than Mitt Romney, but the number of Democrats voting for Hillary Clinton was much, much lower than for President Obama.
KING: There's no question. Again, there are a thousand reasons for this. We could focus on one or two and it might not be fair. Hillary Clinton is not a dynamic political candidate. He has many strengths as a politician, she's not a visceral dynamic candidate.
Number two, Barbara Bush at the beginning of the campaign, remember when she didn't want Jeb to run, she said in a country of 300 million plus people do we have to have another Clinton and another Bush? I think the electorate processed that (inaudible) without a doubt.
One of the narratives was she had a strong superior super campaign organization and they could make up that enthusiasm gap by touching voters and turning them out. Well, it turned out not to be true.
I'll close with this, Anderson, my first campaign was 1988. When Michael Dukakis lost 40 states, a lot of people said, you know, did your chief of staff get it wrong, did your campaign manager get it wrong? What Governor Dukakis said and I think was appropriate, he used an old Greek saying, forgive my salty language, he said, "The fish rots from the head." It's the candidate's fault. That what he's trying -- that's what he was trying to say.
COOPER: All right, John, come in over join the panel. Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, is back, also joining us, Clinton's 2008 campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle and Republican Trump critic, Ana Navarro.
Ana, first of all, I've just going to ask you about your t-shirt, what does it say?
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It says TGIO, Thank God It's Over.
NAVARRO: So it seems like it may not be over.
COOPER: So, as somebody who was very vocal ...
NAVARRO: And I'm just very happy to be here. I want America to know I have not been deported yet.
COOPER: All right. But I mean, as a Republican, but somebody who is also a very ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute. Jeffrey is taking notes over here.
LORD: Let me take care of that now.
NAVARRO: Let me let movement Republicans know I'm also not being interviewed for the chief of staff position.
COOPER: In terms of where you're at, I mean, bringing the country together which is obviously, I think something everybody wants, even protesters in the street tonight were talking to our reporters about, at some point things have got to come together. Where -- how does that happen?
NAVARRO: It happens with our leaders. It happens with Donald Trump. I think he struck a very conciliatory note last night. I think Hillary Clinton struck that similar note today. She was gracious. You have to be gracious in victory and you have to be gracious in defeat. And so far, we have seen them -- seen both of them do that. We've saw, I think, President Obama do that.
I've got to tell you, you know, it's all I can do to unhook myself and go out to the street and protest with these folks but I also feel a very strong respect for the institution, for the presidency, the office of the United States. I kept saying that to you over and over again. It's what motivated me over and over again to fight and I am -- I'm very at peace with myself. I did every damn thing I could to stop Donald Trump from becoming president but today, I know he is president-elect and I know that his success is our success, is our country's success. And I think that's what we have to focus on. We've got to give him a chance to lead.
[21:35:29] Now if while being president he resorts back to being the kind of campaign person the kind of subhuman person, racist, divisive, hostile, sorry, I still need to vent ...
COOPER: All right, we got to ...
NAVARRO: Then we will call him out and we will call him out forcefully because that's what we're here for, that's what America means, freedom of expression. But until then, we've got to think give him a chance to show what kind of person he's going to be as president. COOPER: Patti, I mean, obviously you were working with Clinton in 2008 when it didn't work out so you have been here before in a sense. What do you say to protesters who are out in the streets tonight who may be thinking about going out, you know, in future demonstrations about trying to bring the country together, about, to Ana's point, of giving the president a chance to lead?
PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Yeah, well, look, I ran Hillary campaign, we lost and it was horrible. It's an excruciating thing to lose a presidential campaign because you put everything you have into it, right? These are 18, 20 hour days. It affects your family, it affects your friends. I mean, it's just excruciating. So I feel their pain when their, you know, candidate lost, but I agree with Ana. It is time to come together now. It time to unify. If the Bernie Sanders people could do it with the Clinton people during the primary, I mean, I think we can do it now.
But, look, the onus is on Trump to be gracious and I think we're going to see a lot more graciousness tomorrow when Trump meets with the president in the Oval Office. I think we're going to see two presidents tomorrow and I think that's going to have an impact on ...
NAVARRO: Patti, you know, they're not protesting because they lost. They're protesting for the fear of losing to Donald Trump and what the future holds.
And I think it is so important that Donald Trump and his close advisors see these protests and realize we are a divided country and governing a divided country is a very difficult.
NAVARRO: And it is to their benefit to try to reach out and bring ...
AXELROD: One of the things that I remember from 2009 that kind of stunned me was two things. You know, one was Rush Limbaugh saying when Obama took office "I am rooting for him to fail."
LORD: Can I say something to that?
AXELROD: "I want him to fail." And the second, frankly, were people like Donald Trump who challenged the president's right to be there, challenged his citizenship. I don't raise that to be provocative. I raise it because many people -- I believe what you believe which is his -- we have one president at a time, we all have to hope for success. It's the success of the country but there are a lot of people who say well, gee, they didn't give Barack Obama that chance. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter now. What matters is what happens going forward.
LORD: I want to answer for Rush here. When he said that what he was saying was that he believed Senator Obama, president-elect Obama was going to move the country towards the socialist left and he hoped he fail in that attempt. He's frequently said since that he didn't fail in the attempt. He didn't want him to fail in the sense that I think this is being used. He was totally misunderstood ... AXELROD: So he meant it in a nice way.
LORD: No, no, no. What he meant is, look, as a conservative, he didn't want the country, the president to take the country to the far left.
COOPER: All right, I want talk more with the panel. We got to take another quick break. Trump protesters still on the streets in a number of cities. You see they're in New York. We'll hear from voters who were key to Donald Trump's victory, working class white Americans sharing why they backed Donald Trump, that's next.
[21:43:07] COOPER: Protests going on in a number of major cities in Los Angeles, from the Los Angeles to New York, people protesting the election of Donald Trump as president. In key Rust Belt states and beyond working class Americans made their voices heard on Election Day. White voter without college degrees made up a third (ph) in the electorate and they roared at the ballot box.
Despite what polls predicted, blue-collar workers carried Donald Trump into the White House. The key to understanding how this race ended in Ohio, Martin Savidge asked Trump voters what drove their decisions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE YAEGER, OHIO TRUMP VOTER: I'm not an angry white old man. I just feel that I've been through -- well, I've been alive for 65 years and I've seen a lot go on, so -- and I just thought that there's -- this may be the first time I've seen something that we can actually change.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We were at Anthony's restaurant in East Lake, Ohio in a county that went strongly for Trump. Like many of his supporters, Mike's old enough to remember when good-paying factory jobs were plentiful, but times have changed and he feels kind of cheated.
YAEGER: Just got a notice the other day saying my Social Security is going up $3.69. Boy, I can get a loaf of bread now. But, you know, it's -- I've worked all those years and I see all that money went in Social Security and I'm not benefiting really from it.
SAVIDGE: That sense that somehow life has been unfair is common in the areas that turned out for Trump. Hard-working people who got no break and no help from Washington.
You mentioned this -- the idea of sort of fairness and fair play and that there is a segment of our population that you believe is not getting the fair share they deserve.
LINDSAY NORTON: Absolutely.
SAVIDGE: And we're living ...
NORTON: We're living proof of it -- yeah.
SAVIDGE: Lindsay Norton exposes a common myth -- voters sending Trump to the White House aren't all men and they aren't all old.
VINCE EADON, OHIO TRUMP VOTER: I'm a working man. I work 50, 60 hours a week, you know? When I leave typically, my neighbors are at home, when I come home my neighbors are at home.
[21:45:04] So -- I mean, I'm talking from an extreme side and I feel like, I look around and not everybody is trying exactly, you know? A lot of people are taking but they're not giving.
SAVIDGE: Trump voters were long suffering and they say often silent.
GREG MYTROSEVICH OHIO TRUMP VOTER: Well a lot of people are kept quiet about a lot of things as to what the government was doing. They wouldn't open their mouth or say anything about it. They were tired of being pushed too far and they decided to make a change in their lives and to vote for Donald.
SAVIDGE: It's to send a message?
YAEGER: Yeah. Yeah, send a message to Congress or whoever, to Washington that, you know, we're ready for a change.
SAVIDGE: And was Donald Trump the change or did he happen to come along at a time when people were just really ...
YAEGER: He came along at the time when people were just fed up.
SAVIDGE: The biggest issue for all of them? It's not the wall, it's not immigration, it's mostly jobs, the economy. They want jobs to come back and they simply think Trump, the businessman, can make that happen. Seriously? Big factory jobs, I asked?
ANTHONY MOISSIS, OHIO TRUMP VOTER: I believe that small business makes up a majority of jobs in our country and if we can open up little factories with 200 and 300 employees, that will work.
SAVIDGE: It turns out these Trump voters don't expect Trump to deliver on a lot of what he says.
EADON: As long as he puts forth an effort, I'll be satisfied to move in the right direction of prosperity instead of just giving it away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Martin Savidge joins us now from East Lake, Ohio near Cleveland.
It's interesting, Martin, because, I mean, Hillary Clinton really tried to make this about Donald Trump's character but certainly among a lot of his supporters even if they had questions or didn't like certain things he said or done, that was as much smaller issue than these pocketbook issues and the belief that he can affect change. SAVIDGE: Change is that key word. I cannot stress it enough. So they had two candidates, essentially, that they saw and they had to ask themselves which one did they really think was going to bring about change. They were fed up with Washington.
Was it going to be the businessman that's never been to Washington or was it going to be the woman who is running for office who many say has been in Washington for 30 years? Most said, there was only one clear choice and that was Donald Trump.
COOPER: Yeah, Martin Savidge, appreciate it. Thanks very much and thanks to all those who talked to you today.
Protests going on in a number of major American cities right now, also in front of the White House. Michelle Kosinski joins me from the White House.
Michelle, I can actually hear the protesters ...
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
COOPER: ... outside the White House from up here. We're overlooking the White House.
I think from your location I'm not sure you can actually see them. I'm sure you can hear them. What are they saying?
COOPER: How close are they?
KOSINSKI: Well, we can't say it because it's profanity, but it's related to Donald Trump. They are against Donald Trump. There's a few dozen of them. And they sound like they're students or young people similar groups who were out here last night.
But, you know, they've been coming and going. They're not causing a disturbance but, you know, that's what we can expect to see on here, Anderson.
COOPER: So much of what President Obama has accomplished, what he considers his legacy, the president-elect has promised to undo. In terms of the programs that, you know, would be in limbo -- so, I mean, certainly Obamacare from what Donald Trump has said is top of the list.
KOSINSKI: Yeah, I mean, there's a very long list of what the president have done, that Donald Trump has vowed to repeal or change. We can focus on the very obvious first, Obamacare. And he's vowed repeatedly to repeal that.
The White House is pretty optimistically today pointed out that, yes, it is a law he would need Congress to repeal it. Republicans don't have 60 seats in the Senate, but he could essentially derail Obamacare by not enforcing certain parts of it, by changing certain items through executive action or otherwise that could put it to rest essentially.
Also there are things like the TPP, the massive trade deal with Asia, and people are looking at that like that is going nowhere at this point. Then there's the environment and climate, not just the Paris climate agreement but other action the president has taken like his clean power plan. And we know Donald Trump wants to do things like invigorate the coal industry in America.
He could roll back some of those or not enforce them or take his own executive action. Because remember, that's how President Obama got around gridlock in Congress and that could affect a number of areas, not just climate but also immigration, guns, refugee program, wages, and we're not even getting into yet, Anderson, foreign policy, things that he could change there.
COOPER: Yeah. And a fascinating event tomorrow at the White House, President-elect Trump is scheduled to meet with President Obama to discuss the transition. What do we expect from that meeting? I assume there will be a camera at least for a while inside or maybe they'll make a joint statement?
KOSINSKI: Yeah, yeah. We're not sure what to expect exactly after it. It could be something like a press conference where they both take questions. But I think that's very optimistic. And, you know, the White House wouldn't go into a lot of detail.
[21:50:00] They finally admitted that no, it would not be an easy meeting. I mean, here come somebody to the White House that president has ridiculed, has called a danger to national security, and branded essentially as a reality show joke and not qualified to be president.
So, now he's going to sit down with Donald Trump and go over policies and priorities. The president's priorities are not the same as Donald Trump's priorities, but the White House say -- it wouldn't say that it was actually lobbying Donald Trump to try to keep them in place, but they did say they would layout the status of where certain policies stand right now and they would also go over the benefits of them, in the hopes -- again, I'm talking very optimistically that Donald Trump eventually and his team would see that some of them don't need to be repealed fully and there are some benefits there.
COOPER: We'll see. Michelle Kosinski, thanks very much.
Back with the panel. Also joining the conversation, CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
KING: Let me play the violin for you there. The Obama people think they're going to convince Trump -- you know, there are one or two things maybe they can convince him, but again, I think to David's point earlier, David Gergen's point, (inaudible) Senate, they call it a point of personal privilege. And ask a question to our friend here Mr. Axelrod. You were still tight with the presidents back in 2011, gearing up for 2012, when Donald Trump was the chief cheerleader for the birther movement, then in fact, Donald Trump's repeated public comments were one of the reasons, a factor, in the president deciding after resisting for years to put out the long form birth certificate.
KING: I know you like to share the private conversations, but what was -- the personal animosity between this president and this president-elect cannot be denied. They're going to sit in the sacred shrine of American democracy tomorrow. And the president, God bless him today, he said all the right things. And it's clear he applauded President Bush for the transition eight years ago. That's how we're going to do. But I'm sorry, he's got to be sitting in that house tonight stewing.
AXELROD: You said the right words, though, the sacred shrine of democracy. The president takes that seriously. You heard what he said outside is what he says privately about this election. He talked to the staff today as I understand ...
KING: What did he say about Donald Trump in those days?
AXELROD: Look, he was irritated. There's no question about it and he dealt with it. You'll remember at the White House ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
COOPER: Secretary of State David Axelrod.
AXELROD: He dealt with it at the White House correspondents. But since you used a point of personal privilege, let me use one, which is to say, it is easier to talk about unraveling these programs than it is to actually do them when there are beneficiaries of them. There are 20 million Americans who have healthcare today because of the Affordable Care Act. There are people with preexisting conditions who can get coverage today because a law requires insurance companies to cover them. There are people who hit their lifetime limits on their insurance policies who have to get care because those are no longer allowed.
And so, you know, it is -- the people -- it's always been more difficult to say we're going to -- easier -- it's always been easier to say we're going to repeal the Affordable Care Act than talk about exactly how we're going to replace it and protect all of those things.
BASH: Now it's not just about replacing it, it's actually having to do it. Because if they do have the votes to repeal it which looks like they do, you can't just repeal it and say bye-bye. They have to have an actual plan that they can pass, that's the challenge.
BORGER: And they can't -- and they can't say the people who now don't have to tell people if they've got cancer when they're getting their health insurance to say, oh, suddenly you do. You just -- you just can't do that.
Now my question is whether, when the president actually meets with Donald Trump, whether he tries to say to him what David just said, whether he tries to say, OK, I understand you're going to try and repeal Obamacare, but just take care of those people with preexisting conditions and those ...
COOPER: Which, by the way, Donald Trump has always said whatever he comes up will it cover ...
GERGEN: This meeting historically has not been one you chew over a program ...
BASH: No. It has not.
GERGEN: This is really an opportunity to get the transition and moving. I think it's going to be a very business-like meeting. They're not going to be -- there's not going to be a lot of just sort of reflecting on things.
Donald Trump wants to get the work, but President Obama doesn't want to chat with him.
COOPER: Jeffrey ...
GERGEN: But it's very important to Obama to have extremely professional hand off, and I think he will do -- I think his team will do that well.
KING: As President Bush did with us.
COOPER: And Jeffrey, how do you see this transition?
TOOBIN: I think Trump won. And Trump is going to drive a truck through the Obama administration record. And I think, you know, and President Obama will be very polite. But let's not under estimate why -- what his appeal is. I mean, what Donald Trump's appeal is. It was born in the birther movement. It continued through immigration.
COOPER: And let's talk about the Supreme Court, which you've written about brilliantly. I mean, how big of an impact on that ...
TOOBIN: He has -- well, he has a very free hand. You know, he has a majority in the Senate. Yes, theoretically you could have filibuster. But, you know, there are a number of Democrats who are up in red states who are very likely to cooperate with Donald Trump on many issues.
[21:55:10] There's only one vacancy at this point and it's Justice Scalia's seat. So it would probably just be a conservative for a conservative. But the real issue is looking ahead 83-year-old Ruth Ginsburg, 80-year-old Anthony Kennedy, 70 or 80-year-old Stephen Breyer. Those seats, that's when you start to see if the ...
COOPER: And very quickly on the Attorney General, what are your thoughts?
TOOBIN: I think it's going to be Rudy Giuliani, and I think he's going to prosecute Hillary Clinton.
TOOBIN: You know, I -- this is the guy ...
BASH: Not so sure.
COOPER: You're saying not so sure?
TOOBIN: Looks like everybody is like, oh, he's going to be nice ...
BASH: No, no. I'm not so sure it's going to be Giuliani.
TOOBIN: Even if it's not Giuliani.
BORGER: Do you think if it's Sessions, Senator Sessions he would do the same thing?
TOOBIN: Absolutely. You know, what were they chanting at Donald Trump's rallies?
BORGER: Lock her up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think so.
BORGER: But I'm not so sure Session ...
TOOBIN: You don't want it to be true.
COOPER: All right. We'll see. We'll see. Everyone thanks very much. We'll be right back. More news ahead.
COOPER: Protests continuing against the Trump presidency happening tonight in a number of cities coast-to-coast. CNN continues to follow them. Our political coverage continues all night long. Stay with us.
[22:00:02] "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts now.