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Democrats Criticize Trump's National Security Picks; Tim Ryan Challenging Pelosi for Democratic House Leadership Job; New CNN Book: Trump Campaign Used "Common Sense" Mantra to Win Race; William Cohen Talks Trump's National Security Picks. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 18, 2016 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCNHOR: I've spoken with a lot of Democrats who agree. Well liked, conservative, but intelligent. Number one in his class at West Point. When on to become the editor of "The Harvard Law Review," so he's obviously pretty intelligent. So, I suspect he's not going to have any trouble.

ADAM SCHIFF, (D, CALIFORNIA: Very intelligence. I spoke with him to day to congratulate him. I'm confident he'll do a very good job. And they couldn't pick a more capable person for the position.

BLITZER: You have a different view when it comes to Lieutenant General Michael Flynn to be Donald Trump's national security adviser, President-elect Donald Trump's national security advisor. He does not need Senate confirmation. What's your biggest concern?

SCHIFF: It's twofold. One, on a lot of policy matters, his views really scare me, frankly. He has difficult time differentiating between the entire faith of Islam and those who pervert it, like al Qaeda and ISIS. A lot of his statements are inflammatory that play into the narrative that ISIS has that it's the West against Islam. Very concerned about that.

Also, profound questions about his temperament. This is someone, I think, at DIA, had a reputation of being very hot headed. Not a consensus builder. In the NSA position, you need to bring together disparate voices within the national security infrastructure to come together on tough policy. Those aren't really his skills. I think he was widely thought of, praised in his role with General McChrystal, and gathering battlefield intelligence.

BLITZER: In Afghanistan.

SCHIFF: But in running an agency, in tamping down the impulsive nature of the president-elect, to have another volatile character in the Oval Office scares me.

BLITZER: But when it comes to his views on radical Islam, he seems to be in-line with the president-elect? They don't seem to diverge in that area.

SCHIFF: That worries me. He will have an echo chamber in his national security advisor on Islamic radicalism and also on Russia, because he has very much, over the last year, come to cling to the same view that the president-elect has that Putin is somehow a friend, and he's willing to overlook the invasion of Putin's neighbors, the cyber hacking, similarly to the president-elect. When Mike Flynn was asked during the campaign about the hacking, he also shrugged it off, wasn't willing to echo exactly what our intelligence agencies knew, that this was the Russians meddling. Unfortunately, in Mike Flynn, I think the president will get someone that will tell what he wants to hear on critical issues, not what he needs to hear.

BLITZER: And quickly, on the next attorney general, Senator Sessions, your thoughts?

SCHIFF: I haven't had a working relationship with him. They're going have to do a thorough job, obviously, in the confirmation process. It concerns me he voted against Loretta Lynch because of her views on the immigration issue. He's been opposed to a comprehensive reform on immigration and opposed to criminal justice reform, something I feel passionate for. But the president gets to choose his policies and so he needs to be thoroughly vetted.

BLITZER: He did vote confirm Eric Holder as the attorney general under President Obama.

SCHIFF: Well, you know, they will have to do a thorough investigation into all of these issues. The American people understand, I think, and we are seeing that elections have consequences, and some of the consequences we're seeing of choices like Steve Bannon and Mike Flynn ought to concern Americans that thought maybe he would moderate his views in the White House, and his selections, or surround himself with thoughtful, sound people. We're getting some nominees who don't fit that category.

BLITZER: There's Still plenty of other jobs open there, director of National Intelligence, who oversees the CIA and 15 or 16 other intelligence agencies, secretary of defense, secretary of state. There's still some opportunities to diversify that national security portfolio.

SCHIFF: There are. I hope he takes the opportunity to bring in some, if not dissenting views, at least views that will be independent of what he's expressed on the campaign trail. People who are respected in the various agencies. There is a great talent pool out there of people that have served in Republican administrations, conservative people, but mainstream people, and it scares me when I see him pick people outside the mainstream.

BLITZER: Who would you prefer, Rudy Giuliani as secretary of state or Mitt Romney?

SCHIFF: I would be thrilled to see Mitt Romney. It shows you how much the world has changed when you're a Democrat saying he'd be thrilled with Mitt Romney as secretary of state. But he would be very well in the mainstream. He doesn't have tremendous experience in that area but neither does Giuliani. I think there would be a lot more confidence in him as secretary of defense.

BLITZER: And secretary of defense, thought about that? SCHIFF: I don't know who the president-elect is thinking about.

BLITZER: One thought is Kelly Ayotte, who's, you know, the Senator from New Hampshire, who just lost in her bid for re-election. One thought of bringing her in. I don't know if you know her?

SCHIFF: I don't know her. I think she would certainly be a mainstream choice for that position, and given some of the other names mentioned. Mainstream is good.

BLITZER: Adam Schiff, Congressman from California, thanks for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thanks, wolf.

[13:35:02] BLITZER: The challenge to Nancy Pelosi's leadership is coming from that man on the left over there, Congressman Tim Ryan, of Ohio. Does he have a realistic shot at becoming the next leader of the House Democrats? Our panel will assess when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here in Washington, Democrats in the House of Representatives soon have to choose whether they want to chart a new direction with a new minority leader or stand behind the current leader, Nancy Pelosi, who first won that post some 13 years ago. Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan says he will challenge Nancy Pelosi.

Here what he had to say on CNN on "New Day" earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:40:00] REP. TIM RYAN, (D), OHIO: We just elected Donald Trump president of the United States. We're doing something terribly wrong, and I think we need to move in another direction. And I'm offering myself up to our caucus to say, hey, let's try to do something different.

I don't want to hang this around Nancy Pelosi's neck. I love her. She's great. She's a mentor. She was amazing as speaker when she was in. But we've got to ask ourselves who can get us back into the majority?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now, our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny; and CNN political director, David Chalian.

There's murmurings -- this guy is willing to go public. There are murmurings from other Democrats saying it's time for a change. How serious is this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I think the idea of a challenge to her is quite serious. She's been there more than a decade, 13 years, in fact, and Democrats are -- are at a low point. No question. The problem here is that there's no one person that can probably take her out. Tim Ryan is definitely a leading star or rising voice in the party. No question. He's from one of those red counties in Ohio the Democrats didn't win. That said, she has a lot of support locked up from her California delegation. Also from women. So, it is difficult. Most Democrats would like to see her leave quietly. They point to the fact that's she's 76 years old. Point to that respectfully. But all Democratic leaders are at the average age, 75 years hold. Look at Speaker Ryan. They're nearly twice as old as he is on the Republican side. So --

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: So that's one of the challenges there. But that said, she a very good politician internally. You usually win these races.

DAVID CHALILAN, CNN POLITICS EDITOR: I've never seen a leader understand where their caucus is at in terms of a head count and a would count quite as well as she does.

ZELENY: Right.

CHALIAN: But have to think this the way you think about a Democratic presidential primary. Tim Ryan might have a general election appeal, taking lessons of this November election, and trying to have a national conversation about that. But the liberal groups are with her. The Democratic caucus in the House, they are constituents. This is the liberal wing of the party.

ZELENY: MoveOn endorsed her yesterday.

CHALIAN: MoveOn endorsed her already, exactly. It is difficult to take the message we have to -- that we Democrats need to speak more to the heartland as a message inside a very liberal Democratic caucus that has only become more liberal in recent years as Republicans won a lot of districts that used to be purple.

BLITZER: There's a debate the Democratic Party, the Senate and House as well. Do they challenge President-elect Donald Trump on every issue, fight, fight, fight, or try to work with him and get serious legislation passed? It's a big debate going on right now.

ZELENY: Definitely is a debate, but the word I kept hearing over and over this week up on the Hill was, let's try and exploit his differences with Republicans. We saw it during this campaign. It was a long, Republican's primary and general election campaign and Donald Trump had significant differences with Republicans. Chuck Schumer wants to use those populist issues that really helped elect him and he wants to seize on those. The challenge for Democrats is that Republicans control both chambers here. So, it's -- and also that Mike Pence, the new vice president-elect, is going to doing a lot of the legislative dealing so he may not be quite as populist at Donald Trump. But don't discount Chuck Schumer and Donald Trump having an interesting relationship.

BLITZER: Both New Yorkers, both from New York City, and they've had a long-standing relationship.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: And Donald Trump's a former donor to --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: That's correct. And Schumer's been relatively silent, relatively quiet as far as criticizing Donald Trump.

There's a new book coming out from CNN Politics, "Unprecedented." First book we have ever done. Will be out December 6th. It focuses in one area, very interesting, when Trump always would speak of common sense, common sense. Talk a little about that.

CHALIAN: So our colleagues, Thomas Lake and Jody Endo (ph), who had this dream assignment to avoid being in the mess of the daily headline and being able to, for a year and longer, step back and write the story of this campaign from behind the scenes.

One of the things they learned from a former Trump aide there at the beginning of his campaign, Sam Nunberg, was Trump wanted to make sure to use common sense as catch phrase over and over again that would infuse everything they put together. He said because -- and this is interesting and proved to be true -- it is something that the primary electorate was hungry for, someone who would speak common sense, and it was something that would enrage the establishment Republicans, who would say, oh, it's not that simple. It's much more complex than that. It was a two-fer. He got to enrage the establishment and give something to the base. They used it also in terms of the wall. They said, why don't we just, yes, it's immigration, border, complex issue. Boil it down to Trump and the wall, and voters will start to see that this developer wants to build something that protects us. And keep it that simple. It's basically the, "It's the economy stupid," from the '92 campaign, became the mantra of common sense inside the Trump campaign.

[13:44:59] BLITZER: James Carville and Paul Begala, "It's the economy, stupid."

Guys, stick around.

You can get a lot more of CNN's behind-the-scenes story of this campaign as it happened. Order the new book, "Unprecedented: The Election that Changed Everything." Go to CNN.com/book.

Still to come, a man on both sides of the confirmation process, a former secretary of defense, former congressman and U.S. Senator, William Cohen. He's weighing in on the latest picks for Donald Trump's national security team. What it means for the future Donald Trump presidency.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's return to our top story, President-elect Donald Trump's latest picks for his top national security team. For the post of attorney general, Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions. For the post of CIA director, Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo. And for the post of the national security advisor at the White House, retired Army Lieutenant General Michael Flynn.

Let's discuss with William Cohen. He served as a Republican member of both the House and Senate. He later served as defense secretary under President Clinton.

Secretary Cohen, thank you very much for joining us.

WILLIAM COHEN, CHARIMAN & CEO, THE COHEN GROUP & FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Let's talk about these three pick. Let's talk about the national security picks first, Pompeo and Mike Flynn. What's your reaction?

[13:50:06] COHEN: I don't know Mr. Pompeo. But I'm told that Mike Hayden, a former CIA director, NSA director, and general, thinks very highly of him, that -- so that's good enough for me. General Hayden says this is a man of substance, and someone that can build a support within the CIA, then he's a good pick.

BLITZER: General Flynn, he was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency for two years. He was forced out or fired, whatever happened. He had a distinguished career in the U.S. military, served under General McChrystal in Afghanistan, served in Iraq. He rose the ranks to become a three-star general and leader, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, so clearly there's a history there.

COHEN: There is. And you don't get to be a three-star without having some real capability.

I think the issue for him is he is going to be the national security advisor and the role it's much more bureaucratic. It's really designed to help smooth all of the different departments that have an interest in national security. And it's not just the military. You also have the State Department. You also have the CIA. So, you have -- Treasury Department and others, as well as the attorney general. So, you have a lot of competing agencies involved and it's the job of the national security advisor to reduce, as much as possible, the decisions that have to go to the president.

Sandy Berger was a good example of somebody who was obviously a partisan Democrat, but he also was very objective in saying everybody had to have a place at the table and let's resolve these issues between you, Mr. Secretary, and Madeleine Albright and others before we have to take it to the president. So, if I wasn't satisfied I wasn't being heard, then Sandy would say, "Let's go to the president."

So, his job, he'll find it much more diverse. It's not only military, it's economic, because economics also plays a major role in our national security, environment. Former generals have gone on record to say climate change is a national security issue. So, this will have to be laid out. And he will have to play a role of being an honest broker. And that's something he hasn't had to do. The question is, can he do it? We'll see.

BLITZER: Well, there have been military personnel, generals, who have been successful as national security advisors.

COHEN: General Powell.

BLITZER: General Powell. He was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. later emerged to become a national security advisor and a secretary of state.

COHEN: General Scowcroft.

BLITZER: General Scowcroft.

COHEN: Brent Scowcroft.

BLITZER: He was a very good national security advisor.

COHEN: So --

BLITZER: And he was an Air Force general.

COHEN: Absolutely.

BLITZER: So Maybe General Flynn has that potential in him but you're expressing your doubts.

COHEN: No, I'm not expressing doubt. I'm just saying that's a role he'll have to broaden out his skill set in terms of managing more than a military department or agency. But he'll have to manage a lot of competing interests that may be averse to his own philosophical versions of what needs to be done.

BLITZER: He doesn't have to go through confirmation as the national security advisor.

COHEN: No --

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, to become the attorney general, he will need confirmation. Usually - and you were a member of the Senator. Senators like to confirm their brothers and sisters in the Senate.

(LAUGHTER)

COHEN: They do, but let's remember the experience of Chuck Hagel. He became secretary of defense, but not without a great deal of controversy, and certainly not with a unanimous vote.

So, I think the issues will be raised of Senator Sessions will be, what is really your opinion about waterboarding. Do you subscribe to the notion we should engage in torture? Do you subscribe to the notion we kill families of suspected terrorists? These issues will be raised and members will have to be satisfied of his response.

BLITZER: But the president-elect has expressed those views.

COHEN: Exactly.

BLITZER: He says waterboarding would be OK under extreme circumstances. He's made that case, Donald Trump.

COHEN: I happen to disagree with that. And there are others in the Senate who will disagree with that. But he's the president-elect and Jeff Sessions is his choice, so I suspect he'll be confirmed, but it won't be just smooth sailing. I think there are a lot of ill have to be raised.

BLITZER: Who would you like to see emerge as secretary of state and secretary of defense?

COHEN: One name I've heard surface would be General Mattis over at defense. He will be a great choice

BLITZER: But doesn't a general, a retired general, have to wait seven years before you can take a job like that?

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: Unless there's a waiver.

BLITZER: But the waiver would require Senate approval.

COHEN: It would.

BLITZER: And that's not necessarily always that easy to do that.

COHEN: I think General Mattis enjoys -- if he's in the consideration, I think he would have wide support on Capitol Hill. I know him well. He's worked with me, certainly. But he's a scholar and a warrior, and he's somebody who served this administration very well.

[13:55:10] BLITZER: Because, usually -- I'm a former Pentagon correspondent. They usually like to have a civilian, not necessarily a military -- somebody who maybe served in the military, but not necessarily a military man or woman as the secretary of defense. Are you familiar with that?

COHEN: I am. And we have civilian rule over the military and subordination, and that's going to be very important in terms of who that individual is. It's up to the president-elect.

BLITZER: Rudy Giuliani wants that job. Would you be comfortable with that?

COHEN: I would want to know more about his experience in terms of how he sees the United States in the world at large. I just returned from China, by way of example. They are concerned about national security issues. We have North Korea, other issues. I would want to know more about his views.

BLITZER: We'll have confirmation hearings and find out.

COHEN: But he's also the president's pick.

BLITZER: Of course. Thanks very much. And elections do have consequences.

COHEN: They do.

BLITZER: As we know.

Secretary Cohen, appreciate it.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

The news continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)