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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Washington Post: Trump Turning Away Intelligence Briefers; Trump Makes Two Cabinet Picks; Trump Calls for Unity in Thanksgiving Message; Source: Computer Scientist Urge Recount in Three States; Security Tightens At Trump's Mar-a-Lago; Nearly 50 Million Travel For Thanksgiving. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired November 23, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[20:00:14] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. John Berman here in for Anderson.

And if you are watching us at the airport about to board a flight home, choose the steak not the fish.

Tonight, Donald Trump's choices for his staff and cabinet, and according to "The Washington Post", his choice to forego some of the classified intelligence briefings he's now entitled to receive.

As for job offers, a staunch conservative for education secretary, a sharp critique for a U.N. ambassador, perhaps Ben Carson for HUD secretary, perhaps. Although Trump and Carson have yet to say anything definitive.

And then there's Mitt Romney. Will he be offered secretary of state job? We just don't know.

For more on what we do know, here is Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President elect Donald Trump is bolstering his cabinet by turning to a one time critic.

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I will not stop until we fight a man that chooses not to disavow the KKK, that is not a part of our party, that's not who we want as president.

CARROLL: Trump today announcing South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his choice to serve as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Haley, a daughter of Indian immigrants, became the first woman and first person of color elected as the governor of the Palmetto State. She has no significant foreign policy experience.

Trump also naming Betsy DeVos, a top GOP donor and proponent of school choice, as his pick to head the Department of Education, calling her a brilliant and passionate education advocate. DeVos was also critical of Trump and never an enthusiastic supporter during the campaign. Trump pledged throughout the campaign to do away with the Common Core

education standards to huge cheers.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: And we are going to end Common Core. Education is going to be brought local.

CARROLL: DeVos previously served on the board of an education group led by Jeb Bush that supports Common Core. But in a statement she says "I am not a supporter, period." It got turned into a federalized boondoggle."

Trump taking to Twitter to announce that he's considering another rival for HUD secretary, Dr. Ben Carson. And Dr. Ben Carson tweeting an ambiguous follow-up saying, "an announcement is forthcoming about his role in helping to make America great again."

As Trump opens up his cabinet to one-time opponent, he's also showing an openness to reconsider core positions from the campaign, indicating in an interview with the "New York Times" on Tuesday that General James Mattis, a contender for defense secretary helped change his mind about waterboarding.

TRUMP: He said, "I've never found it to be useful." He said, "I've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Jason Carroll joins us now from just outside Mar-A-Lago.

And, Jason, when are we likely to hear the next pick for the cabinet or staff?

CARROLL: Well, it won't be tonight. Not anything expected tonight and most like likely not tomorrow either. The transition team has made it very clear, John, that tomorrow is going to be basically a down day for the president-elect and his family. So, perhaps on Friday, maybe we'll hear something about Ben Carson. You saw there in the piece that he feels as though something is forth coming in terms of an announcement.

For all those waiting for an announcement about secretary of state, Mitt Romney again the front runner, not expecting to hear anything until after the Thanksgiving holiday -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Jason Carroll in Palm Beach -- thanks so much.

More now on Governor Haley who until now was probably best known for two things. Her graceful handling of the Charleston shooting aftermath and her disdain for Donald Trump.

Details now from CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump hasn't always been the biggest fan of Nikki Haley.

TRUMP: I won South Carolina, big, big, big. And Nikki Haley was against me. It turned out to be an asset because she's very weak on borders. OK?

JOHNS: And vice versa.

HALEY: When a pulley hits you, you hit that bully right back.

JOHNS: But the president-elect is turning to the South Carolina governor to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, praising Haley as a proven deal maker and saying she will be a great leader representing us on the world stage.

HALEY: Thank you very much.

JOHNS: The choice of Haley, the daughter of Indian immigrants, would also add diversity to a Trump cabinet. Haley said she accepted the assignment out of a sense of duty. Adding, "When the president believes you have a major contribution to make to the welfare of our nation and to our nation's standing in the world, that is a calling that is important to heed."

It's a far cry from the heat of the GOP primary when Trump tweeted, "The people of South Carolina are embarrassed by Nikki Haley."

And Haley, who initially backed Marco Rubio's presidential bid, delivered a verbal jab at Trump during her State of the Union response.

[20:05:03] HALEY: During anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. We must resist that temptation.

JOHNS: On policy, Haley criticized Trump's proposal to temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the U.S. as un-American and unconstitutional, and she dismissed his claims that the election was rigged as irresponsible. Despite her reservations, Haley she still cast her ballot for Trump.

HALEY: The best person based on the policies and dealing with things like Obamacare still is Donald Trump. That doesn't mean it's an easy vote.

JOHNS: And following Trump's victory earlier this month, she sounded an optimistic note.

HALEY: Get excited. Because I am just giddy. The idea we can now start to really govern. I've never known what it's like to have a Republican president.

JOHNS: Haley is passing on an opportunity to work with a Trump administration to be part of one. It's the latest step in Haley's rise to national prominence, after she gained widespread praise for her handling of the aftermath of the Charleston church shooting that left nine people dead in 2015. That included her call for the removal of the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state house.

HALEY: That flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state.

JOHNS: And while Haley has spent six years as governor of the Palmetto State, she lacks extensive foreign policy experience. Though the Trump transition team notes that Haley has worked on overseas trade and business recruitment mission during his time as governor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: If Haley is confirmed by the Senate, she would be succeeded as governor by South Carolina Lieutenant Governor Henry McMaster, who is the highest ranking official in the state to endorse Trump before the February primary -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Joe Johns, thanks so much.

And again we are waiting to see who her State Department boss will be, perhaps Mitt Romney, perhaps Rudy Giuliani. Perhaps but who knows?

Trump himself gave no hint of it in his Thanksgiving message which hit social media late today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This historic political campaign is now over. But now begins a great national campaign to rebuild our country and to restore the full promise of America for all of our people. I'm asking you to join me in this effort. It's time to restore the bonds of trust between citizens, because when America is unified, there is nothing beyond our reach. And I mean absolutely nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I want to bring in our panel now. Move on.org national spokesperson, Karine Jean-Pierre, former South Carolina Republican Party chair Katon Dawson, "The Washington Post's" Phillip Bump, OZY editor in chief, Carlos Watson, also Trump supporters Alice Stewart and Jeffrey Lord.

Katon Dawson, you have Palmetto privilege since one of your one own was just picked.

Governor Nikki Haley, why is she the right choice in your mind for U.N. ambassador?

KATON DAWSON, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR: I think she's been underestimated her entire life, including when she originally ran for the statehouse against a 30-year incumbent, ran for governor, started 7 percent. Nobody thought she could win. Has done a tremendous job in South Carolina. Unemployment rate now is 4.7 percent in South Carolina. That's 2 percent lower than the national average.

So, Nikki will get up to speed pretty quick. She's very smart. She's a super politician. She against all odds became the governor and then a 15-point win in her reelect.

So, I think he's made a really good choice. Politicians sort of have a way of healing pretty quick. And that was healed pretty quick with picking her for the U.N.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord, I know you don't believe in identity politics. But there are a lot of folks who were asking, you know, look, the first five appointees were white men. When will there be diversity? Now there is. You have Nikki Haley, Betsy DeVos and perhaps Ben Carson today.

How important do you think that is?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think only in the minds of people who believe in diversity as opposed to seeing all of these people as Americans. That is where we need to be going.

And I think she will, you know, do very well in this job. She's I think well-qualified for it. She's very, very smart. Very capable. She's been a good governor of South Carolina.

And I think should add that presidents frequently have former critics or rivals in cabinets or even as vice presidents. So, there is really nothing unusual about this.

BERMAN: Diversity, geographic diversity. Diversity of thought. Diversity of opinion. Even opinion about Donald Trump.

But, Karine, not a lot of experience in foreign policy. Does that matter? Ben Carson, if he ends as HUD security, not a lot of -- you know, he's a surgeon. He doesn't have vast experience in urban necessarily. Does this type of experience matter?

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, MOVEON.ORG: I think we should be a little concerned that they don't have the experience needed for job. You know, Ben Carson, like you mentioned, is a very, very well known neurosurgeon. But what does he know about running an agency. He said himself that he wasn't -- he didn't have -- he didn't believe he had the experience to do to be the head of an agency. That's number one.

Number two, the hedge fund manager to run one of the most important agency, which is for our children is education.

[20:10:01] And then Nikki Haley I'm sure -- governor, I want to respect the fact that she's a governor, but she doesn't have the experience for foreign policy at all.

So, I think that is something that we need to really ask and push hard on, you know, why these picks? And why are we putting the hands of important agencies into people who are not qualified?

BERMAN: Betsy DeVos, she hasn't been an educator, per se, but she's worked in the field of education for a long, long time. I'm sure you don't agree with where she stands --

JEAN-PIERRE: I don't. BERMAN: -- in a lot of the issues, but she does have experience, at least from the policy perspective.

Philip Bump, on the subject of experience, you know, Donald Trump will be the commander in chief, does not have vast foreign policy experience. Your paper reporting tonight in an article that just came out that he's only accepted the daily intelligence briefings that he's now privileged to twice. That he's basically said, no thanks to other days. Mike Pence has done it apparently every day. Other presidents at this time were doing it just about every day.

What do you think is going on here?

PHILIP BUMP, THE WASHINGTON POST: It is hard to say. I mean, this is -- you know, there are certainly been times in the past in which presidents-elect have foregone these briefings. Richard Nixon was not a big fan. But, you know, Richard Nixon also had also served as vice president and been involved in government for a extended period of time.

Donald Trump hasn't. Donald Trump needs to get up to speed. There's a lot going on. I mean, he even said when he sat down with President Obama, that President Obama had raised issues with him he hasn't even considered. And I think it is a strange decision to make at this point, not to carve out time to actually figure out what the United States government as it exists now, especially as it's being transitioned to you, what the government thinks now are the important things to be aware of. To not make time for that, I think it is baffling, frankly.

BERMAN: Alice Stewart, Trump supporter, would be a good idea to take advantage of these briefings if they're available?

ALICE STEWART, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Clearly, making sure that mike pence is in on these briefings and getting him up to speed on that is important. I'm sure they communicate and talk about what is learned in these briefings. And right now, clearly based on what we're seeing rolled out with the news every day in terms of the major appointments and his priorities for the first hundred days, that is what Donald Trump is focused on right now and I think he's doing a good job, really ahead of the curve in regard to what other president-elects have done.

With regard to Nikki Haley, I think bringing her on board shows he's pulling together a team of rivals. He's looking for the top talent. He's not out to settle scores. And with regard to her foreign policy experience, people underestimate governors and their trips they make broad for economic trade missions and bringing in business to their state and that is about building relationships and nurturing relationships with people and other countries. And she has a great deal of experience with that, which will be helpful with her new role.

BERMAN: And, Carlos, it really is something. I mean, he's considering Mitt Romney to be secretary of state and Mitt Romney was vicious, I mean, personally vicious during the election. Nikki Haley was also very critical, said that Donald Trump wouldn't be someone she would hold up as an example to a kindergarten class. And yet, Donald Trump is bringing her into the fold.

CARLOS WATSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, OZY.COM: You know, good news for never Trumpers and for those who opposed him. He clearly is extending olive branches over the last week with policy-wise and with people.

Very interesting the choice of Nikki Haley. You know that position of U.N. ambassador is often where we've seen either former stars, John Kennedy chose Adlai Stevenson who had run for president twice, or potentially future stars. You saw Jimmy Carter chose Andrew Young.

So, it's interesting role for her, maybe grooming her, if there ever is a second term, for secretary of state. So, really interesting.

I think Betsy DeVos is the one we should be talking about, because our children -- this will represent dramatic change. We've seen over the course of the last two decades lots of non-education leaders run local systems. So, here in New York, you saw former prosecutor, you've seen generals, you've seen others.

But to see at the national level, to see them bring in someone like Betsy DeVos who has been a philanthropist but not that involved. Huge significant and follows on the involvement of Bill Gates, another significant billionaire who got involved in this space and a number of others. It will be interesting to see whether charter schools become not a five to ten percent solution, but literally become a 25 to 30 percent solution.

BERMAN: She hasn't said about it --

WATSON: That would be a dramatic --

BERMAN: All right, guys.

STEWART: Donald Trump has been supportive of school choice and that's where she is. So, I belief she'll help move that ball down the field.

BERMAN: All right, guys. Stick around, we got a lot more to talk about. We have more time too, including the sniping and griping and lobbying against Mitt Romney being offered the secretary of state job.

And later, with Hillary Clinton's popular vote lead now right around the 2 million mark, some computer experts want a recount in three states that made the difference between winning and losing. The big question, what kind of evidence do they have? We'll talk about it when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:25] BERMAN: President Obama pardoned his last pair of Thanksgiving turkeys today, Tater and Tot. So, at least they know what their future holds. In that respect, Tater and Tot have it better than Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani. Both thought to be leading candidates for secretary of state still, and still no known decision from the president-elect.

Governor Romney has could Trump every name in the book. Mayor Giuliani, a die hard Trump loyalist and today, he got help of two others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I will support whoever President-elect Trump picks because he has the right I think as the new president to build the team he wants to build. But I would suggest there are a lot of other people who are more qualified than Romney in foreign policy and who are also have not been as actively hostile as he's been.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not about that I don't care for Mitt personally. But I'm still very unhappy that Mitt did everything he could to derail Donald Trump. He didn't just go after him from a standpoint of saying, I disagree with his policy on immigration, I disagree with his policy on taxes. He attacked him on a personal level about his character, integrity, his honor.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BERMAN: Back now with our panel.

Alice Stewart, you worked with Mike Huckabee for a long time there. He said it's not personal for him, but he really doesn't want Donald Trump to pick Mitt Romney.

STEWART: Well, when you talk about integrity and honor, there's Mike Huckabee's picture and he's been a loyal supporter of Trump since the moment he got out the race. And he's very defensive of those who have been critical of Donald Trump.

So, it is -- it's something he feels very strongly about to who gets what position. And I think Governor Huckabee would be great for several positions. Ambassador Israel would be great.

[20:20:01] But he has taken it -- he would understand if there's policy differences and would disagree with where Trump is on some of the issues, but in his mind, he feels as though Mitt Romney took it a little bit too far.

WATSON: He doesn't want the tall, slim, handsome guy who came out against him all of a sudden to get the goods. That would be out of some cartoon. There certainly would be frustration.

But what a big way for Trump to say that the worse that you expected of me, maybe there is better ahead. And I have a feeling that this was at first a balloon he was floating and the more it's become popular and the more Rudy has seemed to have troubles, the more you begin to see them float Rudy's name out for that but for an alternative position, which is interesting to see it kind of metastasize, but certainly evolved.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord, I don't know if I've seen a campaign like this. First of all, Rudy Giuliani sort of opening campaigning for secretary of state and now sort of the negative campaign against Mitt Romney for secretary of state. I haven't seen anything like this I think during a transition. But do you think there is a risk for Donald Trump here in alienating

some of his supporters? When you have Giuliani -- well, not Giuliani. When you have Gingrich, when you have Huckabee and you know there are others out there who -- Sean Hannity has been tweeting about this who look even on the possibility of a Romney pick as offensive?

LORD: Well, in my view, the president-elect picks Mitt Romney and can get over Mitt Romney, then, you know, you need to sign on. He is the president. He gets to make the decision.

This is not about Mitt Romney or anybody else. It is about the American people selecting Donald Trump as their president. They did. He has the right to make the decision.

The one thing I would just caution though is that if there are differing world views in this case, since it is the position of secretary of state, you want to make very careful your secretary of state is on board with you. I mean, it's one thing to disagree in private. But it's another thing to be heading off in another direction all together. Loyalty in other words to the president and that is very important. If the president elect is satisfied with it, then I think the rest of us should be.

BERMAN: One thing we're seeing is a group of people who do have loyalty to Donald Trump and do share his world view is apparently his family, right? There is a story in "The Wall Street Journal" today which says that Donald Trump Jr. went to France, attended a conference which had essentially pro-Russian, you know, activists there wanting, you know, U.S. and Russia to partner inside Syria.

But the bottom line here is Donald Trump engaged in foreign policy for now president-elect Trump just then candidate Trump, is this appropriate, Phil?

BUMP: I mean, I'm racking my brain trying to figure how this would be a particularly appropriate thing do. I mean, Donald Trump said in this interview yesterday with the "New York Times" essentially he wasn't concerned about the overlap between his business interest and the interest of the country.

And I get why he -- you know, he ran as the businessman. He assumes people knew he had these business interests and there might be some conflict here. He doesn't see this as a problem.

But it is both unique in terms of what we've seen from recent politicians, particularly recent presidents. But it also -- you know, we don't want people to have to question if Donald Trump and his family are putting their interests ahead of the country's interests. And the challenge is that Donald Trump has said these -- that his three oldest kids are going to be running his business.

So, to have Donald Trump Jr. out there essentially doing negotiations with other folks, you know, obviously, with the imprimatur of his father, whether or not it's formal, that's hugely problematic. And all it does is reinforce his existing questions people have about where Trump's focus will be once -- BERMAN: They say the Trump campaign or, you know, Kellyanne Conway

says, you know, he wasn't there negotiating. He was there at a conference about the presidential election had conversations, that was before he was president-elect.

But, Katon, we're sitting here now and there is an article in "The Wall Street Journal" about Donald Trump Jr. Ivanka Trump was in the meeting with the Japanese prime minister. Jared Kushner, Donald Trump said yesterday, he wants Jared Kushner to be involved in negotiating Mideast peace. I mean, he's making the White House it seems a family business.

DAWSON: None of this is surprising. And Donald Trump won in a big way when you look at the map. Look at the map in red versus blue, the mandate he has.

So, I think we'll be talking about this for months, John. Months and months, rerunning the race, re-talking about the numbers. Donald Trump gets sworn in, he's going understand what the s of the road are. I think he's trying to build a tremendous team for America to get done what he's going to do.

Mitt Romney I think is probably a bridge too far. That would be one that I just do. There's history there from 2008 with the critics coming out. Mitt Romney ran for president twice. So, some of this is all get caught in the minutia --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Scratch too far to find people who come at against Mitt Romney.

Quickly, Karine, and we're going to take a break.

JEAN-PIERRE: I just want to say Donald Trump did not win with a mandate. President Obama with 2008 and 2012 won with a mandate. Donald Trump lost a popular vote. He's behind about two million people. So, he just wanted to make that clear, although he is the president because of the Electoral College. I understand that. But it is not with a mandate.

BERMAN: It's a great segue to our next segment right now.

[20:25:02] We're going to talk about votes and counting votes, because several top security experts are recommending an audit of the votes in three crucial states.

And Jill Stein, remember her, has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars towards asking for a recount. She may even just top $1 million as we're on this show. So we're going talk about this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: A group of top computer security experts is urging a recount of vote totals in three states, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. The scientists say the results in those states were strange enough they could have been manipulated or maybe even hacked. One of the scientists says it's just as likely that the polls were systematically wrong, but the only way to know is to look.

Tom Foreman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Wisconsin with almost 3 million votes cast, Donald Trump edged Hillary Clinton by less than 28,000. In Pennsylvania, out of almost six million votes, his advantage was 60,000. An account in Michigan still remains too close for CNN to call the race.

But now, some political activists say in counties using electronic voting, Hillary Clinton appears to have mysteriously underperformed, compared to areas with paper ballots by as much as 7 percent.

[20:30:12] According to what they told top Clinton aides in a call urging an official review. They have not released their analysis nor provided proof of hacking but that margin could have tipped Wisconsin and if the others went her way too, she would have won. So, who is leading the charge?

JOHN BONIFAZ, DEMOCRATIC ACTIVIST: Our democracy is under attack.

FOREMAN: John Bonifaz is a Democrat activist who ran for office a few years ago.

BONIFAZ: This is a story or where the Democratic Party means to be.

FOREMAN: He is a big pronate of voting rights and he tried to get President Bush impeached over the Iraq war.

BONIFAZ: The United States House Representative has a constitutional duty to investigate fully and comprehensively.

FOREMAN: But at the University of Michigan, the chief computer scientist behind the discovery of these alleged voting oddities seems to be on a different page. J. Alex Halderman is concerned about the risk of American elections being hacked. He talked about it on C-span before this vote.

J. ALEX HALDERMAN, PROFESSOR, COMPUTER SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: A realistic attack on the election is probably going to be homing in on whichever states end up having the closest margins.

FOREMAN: But he wants an investigation because he thinks any questions about voting security ought to be addressed. Not because he's convinced it would necessarily change the result nor prove anyone tried to rig the vote. He's posted online, quote, "Were this year's deviations from pre-election polls the result of a cyber attack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that polls were systematically wrong."

As for election officials, some certainly went into the balloting pretty competent.

JERRY FEASER, PENNSYLVANIAN ELECTION OFFICIAL: I can set one of these machines in the middle of red square in Moscow and the Russians couldn't hack into it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: We reached out to some folks behind this, they said they don't want to talk more about it right now in case it gets into the legal action, but the Clinton camp doesn't seem to be pursuing it much and the White House seems just interested in a smooth transition to the Trump Administration. And meanwhile for all the disgruntled Democrats who want to think something went wrong probably doesn't help to the cook (ph) political report just came out with this latest numbers. And Hillary Clinton has now won the popular vote by more than 2 million votes. That's the highest ever for someone who didn't win the electoral vote. John.

BERMAN: All right Tom Foreman, thanks you so much. Back now with our panel Karine Jean-Pierre, I want to start with you.

It almost seems like this is designed to tease Democrats who are still grieving over the results of this election, but do you think there is any reason that the DNC or the Clinton campaign should pursue this?

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, I think as the bit of a stretch. I, you know, a lot of people have asked me, "Do you -- is this real -- can this real?" I'm like, "No I don't think it's going to change anything." But what I do believe that is that it is not a bad thing to do. I think it's good for our democracy. Right, to have confidence in our voting system.

Especially with this divided country that we're in. You know, like we're talking before, that you know, Trump won the Electoral College which is why he's president but did not win the popular vote. So I think there is something there that would be good to do now and for the future, right to give some confidence to the voters that ...

BERMAN: Do you think they should recount?

PIERRE: Yeah I do. I do, I think it would be good for our democracy. I actually do believe that. I don't think this is going to change the outcome. I want to be clear, but I think it'd be something good to do.

BERMAN: Philip Bump you are good in math. And you -- you are -- you frequently right, you know, about math and numbers in so far as it relates to politics. You don't see a lot here.

BUMP: No. You know, I mean the -- it's more than I don't see a lot here. I mean, we know that the folks that are raising this issue are who raised this issue with the Clinton campaign, our folks who are very earnestly trying to guess to reform our electoral system. They want to see more safeguards in place. Safeguards in place would be great, absolutely, but the problem is that they are leveraging the hopes of Clinton voters who were very surprised by the outcome, who are very frustrated by the fact that she won the popularity vote and lost it electoral vote as a mechanism to get this attention to be in the media. And it's in the media obviously we're talking about it.

But I think it's extremely important to reiterate, a, that vote rigging is very, very, very difficult to do. It was very difficult do when Donald Trump was talking about it necessary. It is still very difficult to do now that Hillary Clinton people are embracing it.

There are a lot of ...

BERMAN: Well, that Hillary Clinton people really embracing it?

BUMP: Yes, absolutely. On social media in particular in France that's a ...

BERMAN: That's a John Podesta, Robby Mook ...

BUMP: Oh, I'm sorry, Hillary Clinton supporters. Not necessarily to repeat.

BERMAN: OK, because necessarily her campaign is decidedly not.

BUMP: Yes, my apologies. Yes, I should been more clear.

So there are lot of folks who are very frustrated about the results of this election, but it's important to know there is no evidence. There's no good evidence here that anything happened. And if you look actually at the demographics, Wisconsin, the vote were was neat to overlook at this and it's over reputation is in great today. Yeah, you know, which I think it's unfair too. But you look to this and the demographics line up with the voting results. There's no indication or something on.

BERMAN: Did I hear a ruff on here?

[20:34:59] STEWART: Well, I think clearly everyone in America wants free and fair elections. There's no disputing that. And even when Donald Trump was saying the process is rigged, I didn't support that theory. I think that we do have free and fair elections. I was Former Deputy Secretary of State in Arkansas and every state that runs their elections wants them to be above board. And if there's just the hint of something that not going wrong, right or the machine is not working, I guarantee the secretary of state, the election officials in this three states, they would be the first ones out there making sure that everything was done correctly. There were no problems and no mistakes, because their integrity is on the line. They want their state to be have a good reputation when it comes to elections, and they would be the first ones to making sure that everything went well.

BERMAN: Carlos, there's some irony ...

LORD: John?

BERMAN: ... here in the wall. Hang on one second, Jeffrey. There's some irony to Jill Stein who ran in the Green Party is actually trying to raise money right now to do this recount. I think she's over million dollars and she needs 2.5 either to recount in Free State. Well people point out that if Jill Stein wanted to work against, you know, electing Donald Trump, you know, she could have thrown her support to Hillary Clinton. I mean the margin in Michigan is 10,000 votes and I think she won 50,000 votes in Michigan likewise the margin in Wisconsin is 27,000 which she won 30,000 there.

WATSON: You're seeing rough in either scenario all over again.

BERMAN: Well, it's a little late for Jill Stein to try to help.

WATSON: And you never know Jill Stein, Ben Stein, you know, people who always trying to help. You know, what I would say about this is I was always surprised that Hillary Clinton conceded this quickly as she did. Because in our history, we haven't always seen people concede that quickly. We saw and, you know, obviously we're going back. But 1916, 1884 people waited not just days but weeks. Even in 1960, Richard Nixon waiting around a little bit, and I think given the number of close votes. Given how much of a surprise it was, I frankly was surprised that Hillary Clinton didn't say, let's not only recount the votes in these three states but also by the way, let's throw in Nevada and New Hampshire. This is too important to and everybody and let's do this.

And so I yet wondered if there isn't some buyer's remorse that she did it at 3:30 in the morning given that we're now going to see her end up winning by more than seven people who became president -- seven people who became president with the smaller margin that she's going to end up within the popular vote.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord is doing the history (ph), are you now prepared to say the United States should switch to a popular vote to elect this president.

LORD: Definitely not. Definitely not. We are the United States of America. And the states elect the president. That's the way this was designed. Otherwise, we might as well get rid of the United States Senate that are supposed to represent states. No, definitely not. And one other thing about my home state of Pennsylvania where I'm talking to from this evening.

BERMAN: Yup.

LORD: We have a Democratic governor here. And I assure you if he felt that there was something seriously amiss he'd have pounced and he hasn't.

BERMAN: And the margin of error is actually in Pennsylvania bigger than Wisconsin and Michigan to begin with. Jeffrey Lord, all of you, thank you so much. Stick around. We're going to talk much more about this in the next hour.

Just ahead from Trump Tower in New York to his club in Florida we're going to take a look at the unprecedented challenges and costs of protecting the president elect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:41:51] BERMAN: As we have said, President-Elect Donald Trump spending thanksgiving at his Mar-a-Lago Resort in Florida. This is his first trip to Palm Beach as president-elect. And the preparations for security, they've been intense. Here's Ed Lavendera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Protecting President-Elect Donald Trump is a challenge unlike any other, from Trump Tower in New York to his private club in Florida.

So, we're approaching Mar-a-Lago right here.

It's a 20 acre water front estate in Palm Beach, secluded from the public but he also shares it with as many as 500 members who are willing to pay a hundred thousand dollars to join.

RENNIE RODRIGUEZ, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Basically, it's a compound. And we have to treat it as such.

LAVANDERA: Former Secret Service in ATF special agent, Rennie Rodriquez says, in many ways, it's ready made for presidential security. Behind this natural barrier here, which I assume there's a fence.

RODRIGUEZ: It appears as there's a wall back there.

LAVANDERA: There's a wall, a tall wall.

RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. It's more than 13 feet, I believe, which is great for deterring anyone trying to come on the premises.

LAVANDERA: Behind the wall, Trump keeps a residence that could become the winter White House.

TRUMP: And I love here (ph). This is my second home.

LAVANDERA: Where presidents spend their vacations is a window into their personalities. George W. Bush like to spend the hottest month of the year on his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF U.S.: There's a wonderful spot to come up in here and just kind of think about the budget. I mean ...

LAVANDERA: George Bush Senior famously enjoyed the peaceful serenity of Kennebunkport, Maine.

Mar-a-Lago stretches across a barrier Island cut down the middle by a two lane road nestled between a stunning stream of multimillion dollar homes.

The best view comes from across the bay. Rodriguez says secret service teams are assessing threats that could come by land, sea and air. And standing outside of the club, it doesn't take long to see the skies above will be a major concern.

RODRIGUEZ: I mean, that plane's whether maybe a couple thousand feet over us.

LAVANDERA: The Palm Beach International Airport is just a few miles west of Mar-a-Lago.

RODRIGUEZ: You can see the path for commercial aircraft.

LAVANDERA: For years, Trump has waved illegal battle to keep commercial and private planes from flying over this estate.

And now that he's president-elect, he might have just gotten his way. When he is on the property, Rodriguez says, the air space over Mar-a- Lago will be closed.

RODRIGUEZ: This will be a type of an aircraft that individual would use to drive this plane into -- on the properties.

LAVANDERA: And in the waters around Mar-a-Lago, the U.S. coast guard is already setting up security zones. Some parts completely off limits, other areas that require permission before entering.

Rodriguez says secret service agents will also conduct renewed background checks on every club member. And inside the club, they can also expect to see new levels of visible and invisible layers of security.

Are they in for a bit of a rude awakening?

[20:44:59] RODRIGUEZ: I think it depends, you know. Some of the neighbors may like it, others, you know, may complain because they don't like the intrusion.

LAVANDERA: But life's going change around here for the next four years.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes it will. Most, definitely.

LAVANDERA: Ed Lavandera, CNN Palm Beach, Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was Ed Lavandera reporting. Now, as he mentioned it's not just Mar-a-Lago that's getting a security makeover.

President-elect Trump is using Trump Tower as his transition base. His wife Melania and their 10 year old son, Barron plan to stay in New York for up to six months after President-elect Trump takes office.

Let's just call it a challenge for the people-in-charge of presidential security.

Mark Ambinder wrote about this in "The Washington Post". He's a fellow of the Annenberg School of Communications and Journalism at the University of Southern California. And previously covered national security in the White House for the "National Journal", I'd had chance to speak to him about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Marc, we often hear about the presidential bubble. The secret service detail that surrounds the president at all times.

You know, it's one thing within his house, when it's in the White House, when it's in the Washington, D.C. when you take that bubble and you move it to Midtown, Manhattan right on 5th avenue on a busy Manhattan Street. It's a staggering undertaking.

MARC AMBINDER, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Well, it really is. And in fact, it gives lie to the metaphor that we use. It's not a bubble, because a bubble you can puncture.

But this is an iron cast. I mean, the footprint that President-Elect Trump and then President Trump will take in New York is going to be significant and it's going to be larger than I think many New Yorkers realize even now.

BERMAN: In terms of dollars and cents, just so we understand what this cost. Now cost, maybe not the issue here, but it is going to be extensive.

AMBINDER: Never had you have a president live among other people on a weekend. And that essentially means you have to duplicate the entire White House apparatus, not just the secret service, not just all the security features, but the entire White House apparatus.

And import it into a busy city that is working in a building that other people live with rights that they simply can't be evicted, because Donald Trump wants them to be. It is a completely unprecedented situation.

BERMAN: And you write extensively about this. And what's really interesting is a big chunk of this is the military office is ensuring that the president can do his responsibilities as commander-in-chief.

AMBINDER: Right.

BERMAN: What does that mean?

AMBINDER: Well, I mean, the president has a number of significant responsibilities. They even go beyond being the commander-in-chief.

Commander-in-chief is the one we all know. The president has to be able to consult with military leaders within moments for example of an ICDM watch.

So, there has to be a secure infrastructure for him to do that. But the president also has to be able to communicate with the American people. He has to be able to communicate with foreign leaders. He has to be able to communicate with members of Congress and the Supreme Court.

All of that is the responsibility of the White House military office. So, they're going to have to create in essence, an intranet within the internet of Trump Tower. They're going to have to create a secure compartment and information facility. They're going to have to create iron chambers if the president can go into when he needs to make these discussions.

And they're going to have to replicate that at various points throughout the city when he travels. Just like the White House military office is able to do with Washington, D.C. which has a number of locations the president can go to, especially during emergencies.

BERMAN: And this is something that we have to build. Physically build. Not just the technology, but also the human resources.

AMBINDER: Yeah.

BERMAN: And that's a big deal. Marc, you also write as an example of how big this is about that one date night that the president and first lady had in New York City back in 2009 when they went to dinner on a broadway show.

And just that alone was a huge deal. And now, you want to do it on a permanent basis, right?

AMBINDER: Right. I mean, if you are the secret service, you can do things, one of two ways, to ensure the safety of the person that you're protecting.

You can do it stuffily if the world doesn't know that a protectee is going to show up at a certain place. It's easy to do with a small footprint because the threat is minimal. But if word gets out, you have to essentially send in the big guns.

That's what happened with President Obama's date night back in 2009. They had to replicate the entire structure of the White House. They had to send everyone through magnetometers and turns out magnetometers malfunction because they replaced on top of a metal barriers so they had to send everyone through the magnetometers again.

That's going to happen over and over and over again. And of course, even President Trump being someone who is not a first to publicity.

And again, somebody likes to go out on the town in New York, I have a feeling that you're going to see it this happen a lot. And there will be times when entire parts of mid town of Manhattan are shut down because President Trump, within his rights, wants to have dinner at a steak restaurant.

BERMAN: So, more, you are deeply source within the security apparatus of this country. Do you have any sense that the secret service is trying to talk Donald Trump out of spending so much time at Trump Tower? And if they wanted to, could they?

AMBINDER: I think they have impressed upon President-elect Trump the difficulty and some of the compromises he might have to make.

[20:50:00] But I don't get the sense at all if they're trying to talk the amount of it. I really don't. And that's not their job. Their job is to do what they've always done which is OK. Tell us what you want us to do and we'll figure out a way to do it.

BERMAN: Make it happen. Marc Ambinder, fascinating discussion. Great writing on your part again. You are the expert on the subject, so thanks so much for being with us.

AMBINDER: Thanks John.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Coming up. AAA says 43 and a half million Americans are hitting the road for Thanksgiving, more than 5 million others heading to the airports. We're going to have an update on your holiday travel. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: If you're heading into grandma's house for Thanksgiving, you're going to have plenty of company on the roads and in the airports. AAA says travel is up this year with nearly 50 million Americans traveling to their holiday events. Rene Marsh reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Millions of people across the country are on the move during the busiest travel period of the year. On the 405 in Los Angeles, it was the mother of all traffic jams Tuesday night. Miles and miles of gridlock for drivers who had hoped to beat the rush.

On the Capital Beltway outside Washington, D.C., traffic was backed up for nearly 10 miles after a crash. Most people will drive to their Thanksgiving destination more than 43 million according to AAA. The best way to avoid the worst gridlock, drive on Thanksgiving Day and head home any day but Sunday. Saturday or Monday are much lighter traffic days.

[20:55:14] Meantime, airports and airlines are seeing a record number of flyers. 27 million passengers are expected to take to the skies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For them it will be all snow.

MARSH: Inside Delta Airlines Command Center this week, the operations team monitors the weather and every flight in the air.

DAVE HOLTZ, DELTA OPERATIONS AND CUSTOMER CENTER: There's a laser like focus on completion factor, making sure we get people where they need to be for the holidays.

MARSH: And as passengers line up at security checkpoint, the head of TSA says they're ready.

PETER NEFFENGER, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: We brought on about just shy of 1,400 new transportation security officers this summer. We've converted about 2,000 from part-time to full-time. We've added about another 50 or 60 K9's. MARSH: But unexpected problems can pop up. At Louisville Internation Airport, a temporary power outage caused long lines and delays this morning. Overall for most flyers, it's been a smooth ride so far.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was expecting a lot of lines and just a lot of confusion outside, but everything is really smooth this morning.

MARSH: But with 1 million more people traveling this year compared to last year, it's still a good idea to get to the airport two hours before your flight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: Well, TSA is pretty confident that passengers will not see a replay of what we saw earlier this year, really long security lines that led to actually passengers missing their flight.

Aside from beefing up their staffing TSA is using more of those K9canines. Important to remember, if you see a K9 working the line that you're on, you don't have to take off your shoes or your jacket and you can leave your liquids in the bag.

It is one of many measures they're using to kind of speed up this process. But John, you know, I'd argue that the true test is going to be on Sunday because although we saw a lot of travelers today, Sunday is when we will see the most travelers. So, we'll see how TSA handles those lines then.

BERMAN: Yes. But they'll only going to get worse. All right, Rene Marsh, thank you very much. Nice to see you tonight.

The president-elect is one of the tens of millions of Americans who hit the road for the holidays. He's in Florida. He put out a video message for Thanksgiving.

That and more in the next hour of "360".

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