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Donald Trump Picks Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development; Donald Trump Not Backing Down On Taiwan Call; Oakland Fire Search Continues; Elections Send Shockwaves through Europe; Germany's Merkel Runs for Fourth Term. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 5, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:02] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with a new member of President-elect Donald Trump's proposed cabinet, Dr. Ben Carson. He's been picked to be the next secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Dr. Carson was, of course, a highly-respected pediatric neurosurgeon. He was one of the 17 Republicans running for the Republican presidential nomination. But when he dropped out back in March, he became a top adviser to Donald Trump.

House minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, is calling Dr. Carson a, quote, "disconcerting and disturbingly unqualified choice." Also saying there's, quote, "no evidence Dr. Carson brings the necessary credentials to hold a position with such immense responsibilities and impact on families."

One of the bigger remaining spots to be filled, of course, that of the secretary of state. Over the weekend, we learned that there are now a few more names on that list of potentials. They include Mitt Romney, General David Petraeus, Senator Bob Corker. Former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, he's now on that list as well.

Let's bring in our -- Jessica Schneider is over at Trump Tower in New York City. Also here in Washington, Jim Sciutto. He's our Chief National Security Correspondent.

Jessica, a couple of weeks ago, Dr. Carson didn't seem to be want to be part of the cabinet. So, what changed?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you know, it was just a couple weeks ago that a close aide to Dr. Carson said that Dr. Ben Carson was not, in fact, interested in leading a federal agency. That's when Dr. Carson's name was being mentioned for Health and Human Services.

At the time, it was because Dr. Carson didn't have any experience leading a federal agency and he didn't believe that that was his strength.

Well, then, you go back to two weeks ago. And Donald Trump tweeted he was, in fact, considering Dr. Carson for HUD secretary. And then, it was just on Wednesday, last week, that Dr. Carson put on his Facebook page that an announcement was imminent.

So, the question is, what changed here? Well, you'll remember to -- back in December when Dr. Carson actually took Donald Trump on a tour of the blighted neighborhoods of Detroit, including his boyhood home. So, perhaps Dr. Carson believes he has some insight into this.

Of course, HUD is responsible for providing rental assistance to low- income families. Also working on cleaning up some blight in inner cities. So, perhaps Donald -- Dr. Carson believing he can make his mark.

But, already, the backlash has been swift. Several Democrats speaking out against his nomination.

Nancy Pelosi, the House Minority Leader, coming out very forcefully saying that he is a disconcerting and disturbingly unqualified choice. But, of course, Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, coming out in strong defense, saying that Dr. Carson's long record of public service will be an asset for this administration -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We're just getting word, Jessica, that the former vice president Al Gore, who's over -- he's right behind you inside Trump Tower. He was meeting with Ivanka Trump.

We're now told Trump told the pool -- the pool of the news media, reporters there, that he also had a chance to meet with Donald Trump, the President-elect, himself.

Tell our viewers what the former vice president, Al Gore, was doing there to begin with?

SCHNEIDER: Well, Donald Trump never ceases to surprise us, Wolf. You know, we weren't expecting that the two would meet. But, of course, Al Gore and Donald Trump, now you're telling me that they did meet.

But Al Gore was, in fact, here at Trump Tower first and foremost to meet with the --

BLITZER: It looks like we just lost our connection over there at Trump Tower. We'll get back to Jessica.

But the important news right now, we just learned it from the travel pool over there, is that the former vice president, Al Gore, not only met with Ivanka Trump over at Trump Tower, but also with the president-elect as well.

Jim Sciutto is with us. A lot of sensitive areas. You know this area well involving China. As we know, Donald Trump isn't backing down from accepting that -- what they call that courtesy phone call from the president of Taiwan.

First time in 40 years, since 1979, that there's been a conversation, if you will, between the leader of Taiwan and either a president or president-elect of the United States. He's not backing down. China, by the way, lodged a formal protest, --

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BLITZER: -- as you know, with the White House, saying that the U.S. should stick to the one China policy.

Trump responded, did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency, making it hard for our companies to compete, heavily tax our products going into their country? The U.S. doesn't tax them. Or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so.

And then, just moments ago, the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: -- that there's no attempt and no effort and, frankly, no desire to make promises on behalf of the president-elect.

When the president-elect assumes office, when he assumes the awesome responsibility of governing the greatest country in the world, that's something that -- that's something that he'll do on his own.

The assurances that we could offer the Chinese government were the ongoing commitment of the U.S. government to the pursuit of a one China policy that we believe has benefited the United States, China and Taiwan.

[13:05:12] But the Chinese government and senior officials in the Chinese government are sophisticated enough to understand the complexities of the U.S. political system, and they understand that President Obama's ability to set our policy toward this region of the world expires on January 20th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. So, translate that for us, what we just heard, into rather diplomatic nuance tones.

SCIUTTO: Here's the thing. Donald Trump is picking a fight with China on the sweet and major issues that divide the countries. Trade, you know, currency, et cetera. The South China Sea, of course, they're developing one. You and I have talked about it a long time. But also Taiwan.

And, you know, these are issues that, over the course of decades, almost -- particularly Taiwan, almost sparked a war, right? So, you have -- you have a whole set of rules just about how you communicate, who communicates, diplomacy treaties, et cetera, to keep shots from being fired here.

And with a couple of tweets and a phone call, Donald Trump is upsetting that order, potentially. And ears are perking up. You saw Josh Earnest there with a sort of very measured statement reaffirming China's one China policy -- U.S. one China policy. You saw the foreign ministry over the weekend saying, listen, U.S.-China trading relationship is mutually beneficial, et cetera.

But I can guarantee you that behind the scenes, certainly not just in the White House but in China, there's real concern here.

And I just want to read something because China uses a lot of ways to communicate with the world. One of their official statements put in one of their state newspapers. This is from "The Global Times" which is in the English language, Chinese mouthpiece.

It says -- this is about Trump. He doesn't have sufficient resources to deal with China wantonly. His many words will not become deeds. Most U.S. people won't want to take the risk of sinking into a major power conflict.

I mean, they are raising there the potential effect of these words, laying it right out there for the world to see. That's the level of concern that China has right now.

BLITZER: Yes, there -- obviously, we'll see what happens but there is a high level of concern. But, so far, officially, publicly, the Chinese government --

SCIUTTO: Calm (ph).

BLITZER: -- of Beijing restrained in their reaction.

SCIUTTO: Right.

BLITZER: All right. Jim Sciutto, thanks very much.

Let's get some more on this transition. Joining us from Capitol Hill, Texas Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. WILLIAM MAC THORNBERRY (R), TEXAS, CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's start with China right now. What's your reaction to the uproar that has developed over the past few days over this 40-year break from tradition in this phone call between the president-elect and the president of Taiwan?

THORNBERRY: Well, a couple of things. One is just on the level of common sense, it seems to me to be OK if the president of the United States talks to the leader of a major U.S. ally like Taiwan.

Secondly, I remember that President Obama has met with the Dalai lama a number of times over his tenure. That's also a sensitive subject for the Chinese. But it's been OK. And thirdly, I guess, I -- they're -- I think both countries are, and both leaders, are trying to feel each other out. We need a constructive relationship with China. But as a rising power, China is testing what they can get away with.

And you mentioned or the report mentioned building islands in the South China Sea, et cetera. A little bit of pushback. And I think, especially with enhanced U.S. military power, it's probably a good thing to help channel this relationship towards more constructive ends.

BLITZER: Is it your understanding that this phone conversation wasn't just a spur of the moment decision by the president-elect to accept this call from the president of Taiwan? But it had been in the works now. They had been considering it for weeks?

THORNBERRY: Yes, I read press reports that say that. I don't know what the truth is. But, again, Taiwan, a major U.S. ally. Maybe it's OK if they talk.

And, otherwise, you know, I think there is some concern about hyping it out of proportion. Because, as your report indicated, it does not change the one China policy which has been the mainstay ever since the 1970s.

BLITZER: As you know, retired General David Petraeus, he's still a candidate to be the secretary of state. But, tomorrow, Donald Trump will officially announce what he's already announced, retired General James Mattis as his choice for defense secretary.

You're in charge of getting that legislation, that waiver passed in the House of Representatives. He's only been out of uniform three -- for three years. He needs to be out for seven years and unless legislation is passed.

Do you see any problem at all in getting that legislation passed in the House of Representatives, setting the stage, potentially, for his confirmation in the Senate?

[13:10:01] THORNBERRY: I think it will pass. I know a few leaders in national security, whether military or civilian, who are as respected and admired as Jim Mattis. And I think we all, at the same time, take civilian control of the military very seriously.

So, this has happened before with General Marshall in 1950. You had an extraordinary circumstance with the Korean War, an extraordinary leader. Congress passed a one-time exception to the general rule. And I think that's analogous to where we are today, very difficult circumstances, extraordinary leader. A one-time exception makes sense.

BLITZER: Would you OK with Petraeus as secretary of state?

THORNBERRY: Well, that does not require any sort of legislation to allow him to serve there. You know, I do think that some of these top military commanders gain tremendous diplomatic experience in doing their jobs. But each of them also has to go before the Senate and their qualifications for that job will be examined. And that needs to happen on an individual basis.

So, yes, I think leadership from top generals is something that is attractive to, obviously, Mr. Trump and the country right now. You don't want to have a cabinet full of generals any more than you want a cabinet full of lawyers or a cabinet full of businessmen. But there's some real experience here that may make sense for the country.

BLITZER: Yes, Petraeus would not need a waiver to be the secretary of state. He would still need confirmation by the U.S. Senate. The House of Representatives, in his particular case if he were to be nominated, would not be involved.

A quick -- a quick question on Mosul right now. How close is that situation to being resolved? In other words, ISIS being kicked out?

THORNBERRY: Not eminent. I think it's going to be weeks if not -- my guess is, a couple months, at least. This is really tough fighting. It is block by block. ISIS has had years to dig in, tunnels, IEDs, all sorts of very difficult circumstances. Plus, they're using civilians as human shields.

So, it takes time and I would say we're probably looking at another couple months before Mosul is cleared.

BLITZER: Representative Mac Thornberry of Texas, the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

THORNBERRY: You're welcome, sir.

BLITZER: Coming up, investigators say a gunman stormed a Washington, D.C. area Pizzeria, after a fake news story surfaced online, and was peddled by the -- actually, the son of Donald Trump's new national security adviser.

Plus, new details on a deadly fire in Oakland, California that killed at least 36 people. What we're learning now about the cause of the fire and what we're learning about the victims.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:51] BLITZER: The death toll is rising in that horrific fire that gutted a converted warehouse in Oakland, California. Thirty-six people are now confirmed dead and officials believe that number will rise. Eleven victims have been identified so far.

The blaze raced through the building late Friday during an electronic music show. A criminal investigation is now underway.

The White House just released a statement from President Obama saying in part, "while we still don't know the full total of the disaster, we do know that an American community has been devastated and many people, including young men and women, with their whole futures ahead of them, have tragically lost their lives."

CNN's Paul Vercammen is on the scene for us.

Paul, what are you learning? What's the latest?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, right now they are unable to continue this bucket by bucket work of clearing debris and remains from the warehouse. That's because, as they describe it, there was a wobbly or a precarious wall and they did not want to further complicate tragedy by having any part of this building go collapsing down on the first responders who are doing this grim work inside. So that part of this process has been suspended for now. They will resume later today, they say, and send people back inside.

What have they done? They've cleared about 70 percent of the debris inside this building. It's a difficult task because as you've seen from the aerials, Wolf, the roof collapsed, hit the second floor. Then the second floor, parts of it, went down onto the first floor and then you had a fire.

So we have the 36 victims, as you mentioned, that are confirmed dead. They still have 30 percent of this warehouse to look through and they figure this is going to be a challenge.

Let's listen to what one of the top fire officials had to say about the problems with that wall collapsing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BATTALION CHIEF MELINDA DRAYTON, OAKLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT: We have about a three-inch lean going into the center of the building. For us as firefighters working under a wobbly potentially collapsing exterior wall is extremely dangerous. We will not put our firefighters in danger at this point and we will not put Alameda County Sheriffs in that precarious situation with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And now back here live. Real quick, one thing that we found to be just gut-wrenching to listen to, Wolf, they were asking for family members and anybody who thinks is missing to provide them with DNA samples, vis-a-vis let's say a comb or a toothbrush or something like that so they can go ahead and make a DNA match and have more than just the 11 confirmed victims identified. And then, of course, the family's notified, Wolf.

BLITZER: What a horrific, horrific disaster that is.

All right, Paul Vercammen, we'll check back with you. Thank you.

[13:19:39] Coming up, Europe's far right populist party is apparently energized by President-elect Donald Trump victory. Several major elections happening across the continent. Who's in? Who's out? What it says about the political climate in Europe? That and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Italians woke up this morning to a government in political turmoil. The Italian prime minister, Matteo Renzi, will resign today. He had staked his political future on a referendum aimed at overhauling the constitution and the Italian parliament. Renzi's departure paves the way for populist anti-EU parties to potentially step in.

But this political trend did not carry over to Austria. Voters there have sided with the pro-EU presidential candidate Alexander Van der Bellen, who defeated an opposition candidate from the far right.

Let's talk about this with our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott.

Elise, it appears the tide is changing clearly in Europe after the historic British vote to leave the EU, the election here in the United States of Donald Trump. These latest two contests tested that global populist revolt, if you will. What does it say about the political climate in Europe right now?

[13:25:11] ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a mixed message, Wolf. I mean, obviously, both of these votes were, you know, playing into these fears, this distrust of immigrants, distrust of, you know, more strengthening European integration. Fears of, you know, Islamic extremism. And both of those votes played into that.

And also, you know, these votes were an affirmation or an indictment of Europe. And in the case of Italy, that really sent shivers down the spine of Europeans who feel that Italy voted no to a stronger Europe. The whole European experiment. And in Austria, Alexander Van der Bellen was much more of a pro-European candidate over Norbert Hofer of the Freedom Party, who ran more of an anti-free trade, anti- immigration, anti-EU kind of stance. Also, a lot of the kind of similar themes, these populist themes of Donald Trump that swept Donald Trump to victory.

So, it's a mixed message but clearly those fears of immigration, of free trade, of European integration with certainly at the helm. And, you know, Secretary Kerry, Secretary of State John Kerry, in Europe, in Germany and in Brussels this week, obviously going to hear a lot about the anxiety that Europeans are fearing, because there are more elections coming this year, Angela Merkel up for re-election, Francois Hollande up for re-election. Far right parties are gaining ground and the concern is that they'll be a domino effect, Wolf.

BLITZER: Elise Labott with some good background for us. Elise, thanks very much.

One of the best representations of how much the global political landscape has change, take a look at this photo. It was shot in April at the G5 Summit in Germany. Since then, the British prime minister, David Cameron, Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, they have resigned. France's president, Francois Hollande, says he will not seek re-election. President Obama is finishing his term in office. So there's only one world leader left from that photo, we're talking about Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel.

Let's discuss this with my next guest. Peter Wittig is the German ambassador to the United States.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for join us.

PETER WITTIG, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Good to be here.

BLITZER: Lots of turmoil, lots of excitement going on in Europe right now. First of all, what's your reaction to this stunning defeat for Matteo Renzi, the prime minister of Italy? He was just in Washington a few weeks ago. President Obama hosted a state dinner in his honor, the final state dinner. Clearly trying to help him. Didn't work.

WITTIG: Well, of course, Wolf, I cannot speak for Italy, but it seems to me, yes, he suffered a defeat on a reform issue. But I wouldn't overdramatize this. Italy is a very resilient democracy, even if times where prime minister have changed frequently. So it will not spill over into other countries of Europe and it will not jeopardize the stability of European Union.

BLITZER: What about Germany? Because Angela Merkel's up for re- election, fourth term, if you will. How much has the dramatic changes in Britain, in Italy, elsewhere in Europe, impacted Germany?

WITTIG: Well, there will be elections next year. There are ten months to go. And you know that's an eternity in politics. Chancellor Merkel still enjoys as high popularity of 54 percent. She's in a strong position. But then again, we also have now our populist party from the right, which has scored quite well in some regional elections. It's not represented in the national parliament.

BLITZER: They want the - Germany to leave the EU?

WITTIG: They are more anti-immigrant party. The consensus in Germany, that we should be pro-European is very strong. So it's a more - an anti-immigration party.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to what the president-elect of the United States said about Angela Merkel back in July as far as her refugee policy, absorbing all of these refugees coming into Germany. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Take a look at what's happening in Sweden, in Germany, in all of these countries that are taking them. It's a disaster. Germany has never had a problem like this. They're going to end up doing a number - I mean, they are very angry in Germany. I used to think Merkel was a great leader. Guess what? She blew it, OK? She blew it. Because what's going on there is disgraceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And that's - remember, that's what he said in July. They've had a phone conversation since he was elected, right?

WITTIG: A very friendly one.

BLITZER: How did it go?

WITTIG: And, Wolf, you see, we don't take everything that was said in the election campaign at face value. I think now we're in a new phase. We have a new president-elect, a new administration and we will work very constructively and pragmatic and forward-looking with this administration. Chancellor Merkel is one of the most important leaders in Europe. Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. So the two will work together well, I'm sure, and there's -

BLITZER: Has there been a dialogue between German officials, maybe you yourself, and others inside the Trump transition?

[13:30:01] WITTIG: Yes. We had our contacts, as it is our duty to stretch out our feelers. But you know the nominations are not yet complete. So we have to see how this team is being set up.