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Trump Picks Climate Change Skeptic To Head EPA; Trump Chooses Pick To Lead The Department Of Homeland Security; Trump Plans to Keep Stake in Company; Dow Jones Up; Trump Picks Climate Change Skeptic to Head EPA. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 8, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Aleppo, Syria, 2:00 a.m. Friday in Beijing. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, like the fox guarding the henhouse, that's how critics are describing one of President-elect's Donald Trump's latest cabinet picks. Trump has chosen Oklahoma attorney general, Scott Pruitt, for administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency. Pruitt is a critic of climate change science and has sued the very agency he has been picked to run.

Trump has also chosen a third general for a key position. Retired U.S. Marine Corps General John Kelly is his pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security. And a vote, by the way, expected in the House of Representatives this hour could help Trump's choice for defense secretary, General James Mattis who needs a waiver from both chambers, the Senate and the House, to be eligible for the position.

So far, President-elect Trump has filled more than half of his cabinet and top level positions. And, today, he's on the road once again. He continues what's called his thank you tour with a rally later tonight in Des Moines, Iowa and in Grand Rapids, Michigan tomorrow.

You're looking at live pictures, by the way, of Donald Trump's plane in New York City. He will soon leave for Columbus, Ohio.

CNN Political Reporter Sara Murray is in New York for us. Our Senior Political Reporter Manu Raju is up on Capitol Hill.

Sara, tell our viewers, first of all, why the president-elect is visiting Columbus, Ohio.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Wolf, most of the stops on Donald Trump's agenda, as you pointed out, are part of this victory tour. They're uplifting, sort of, rockets' (ph) events, ways for him to thank the people who delivered him the presidency.

But his stop here in Columbus is going to be a different kind. It's going to be a more somber stop for him to meet with first responders as well as victims of this attack that happened right here at Ohio State University. So, you're going to see a different side, potentially, of Donald Trump, not just sort of the candidate we saw on the campaign trail and the president-elect we see at rallies. But more, essentially, the comforter in chief kind of role that we expect to see from our presidents -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's a very important role, indeed. And I assume, over the next four years, he'll be doing, unfortunately, a lot of that kind of comforting.

Sara, the president-elect also held more important transition meetings before leaving for Columbus, Ohio. Who are some of the people he's been meeting with today?

MURRAY: That's right. The effort to build his White House team carries on before he heads here to Columbus.

And there were a couple of interesting meetings on that agenda. In addition to Congressman Raul Labrador, Donald Trump is also is meeting with the former Ford CEO, Alan Mulally. Now, his transition team made a big deal of the fact that Mulally oversaw Ford and that Ford actually did not need the auto bailout when other auto companies took it. So, that's an interesting meeting.

And the other one is another potential candidate for secretary of state, retired Admiral James Stavridis. And, look, the secretary of state job has been a highly coveted position. Donald Trump, at times, has seemed like he was ready to fill it and then backed off again.

He continues to interview candidates. I think that's what we saw today. And Stavridis was not giving any indication of where he felt he stood on that list. He cracked a joke about the short list as he was on his way out.

There are no indications whether Donald Trump may be any closer to filling this position. Of course, we know there are other candidates in the running, including Mitt Romney as well as Rudy Giuliani.

BLITZER: Yes. Stavridis is a former NATO supreme allied commander. He's now the dean at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University.

Manu, explain how a vote on emergency government funding, coming up in the House of Representatives right now, could actually wind up helping the president-elect's nominee for defense secretary.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right. James Mattis retired from the Marine Corps in 2013. But under the law, he cannot serve that top civilian post at the Pentagon unless Congress grants him a waiver, because there's a seven-year prohibition from the time someone served until the time that they can take that civilian post.

And that waiver, actually a process to expedite consideration of that waiver, is included in this must pass spending bill. Now, that must pass spending bill is about to pass the House of Representatives. But the Senate is running into some issues today. Sort of on an unrelated topic. Democrats pushing from coal states, like Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, to get money to help with coal miner's health programs, to help their health insurance needs. So, we'll see how that plays out in the Senate.

Now, at the same time, Wolf, senators are also considering and weighing in on all these cabinet picks who are coming out day after day from Donald Trump. Some Democrats raised some sharp concerns.

I had a chance to talk to Tim Kaine, Hillary Clinton's running mate, about these picks. The senator from Virginia. He was sharply critical about a couple of Donald Trump's picks. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:08] SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind having an EPA critic. That is not my concern. He's a climate science denier and that causes me great concern, because if there's any agency of the federal government that virtually every decision they make is a decision that's based on science.

RAJU: What about -- you were on the Armed Services Committee. The general that they're putting in there. What about the idea of putting three generals in the cabinet?

KAINE: General Flynn's trafficking in conspiracy stories that a fourth grader would find incredible, suggests either that he's highly gullible or that he's so consumed with malice that he -- that he loses his ability to judge what's fact and what is fiction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, he -- the Senate does not have any authority to confirm that national security adviser position that Michael Flynn has been appointed to by Donald Trump. But Kaine suggesting he should step aside from that position because he does not have the judgment.

And one other thing, Wolf. Tim Kaine also has taken himself out of the running to run for president again, run for president in 2020. I asked him why. He said he wants to serve in the Senate for a very long time -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Interesting. Very interesting, indeed.

All right, guys, thanks very much.

As President-elect Trump taps a third general to serve in the highest levels of his administration, in national security and Homeland Security, he's also in discussions with three more generals and admirals for other posts. Former CIA director, retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus, he's being considered for secretary of state.

As we just heard, Admiral James Stavridis was recently added to the growing list of possible secretaries of state. And for director of the National Intelligence, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, among those being considered.

Let's discuss all of this and more with Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. He's joining us. He's a U.S. Air Force pilot. He served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He serves on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, also served on the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: You bet, Wolf. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: So, we all remember this very famous Donald Trump quote from the campaign trail. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me. I would bomb the (INAUDIBLE) out of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, why the switch? Why do you think he's filling his key government posts, several of them, with retired generals and admirals, potentially?

KINZINGER: Well, I think what you see is the difference between, you know, campaign. Obviously, Donald Trump ran a very unique campaign and some of the things he said and the ways he did it. Versus governing.

When the weight the presidency comes down on your shoulders. And, all of a sudden, you wake up and realize, I'm president of the United States, or president-elect. I've got to put together a team.

Then, you start, in a very serious way, looking, you know, who's the best for this position? And I think, you know, there's a lot of, kind of, hysteria over the number of generals that he's -- that he's putting in there.

I think it's important to remember that, you know, they're not in the military currently. They're retired. But somebody, like in the case of Mattis, that can come in with a perspective of knowing where, you know, there's waste in the Pentagon. Knowing how the process of buying new planes and everything else works and where it fails, is basically the right person we need in that for this moment.

So, a lot of hysterias being made about the number of generals. But it's important to note, we're not taking folks directly out of the military and putting them in a civilian position. They're retired.

BLITZER: Do you -- what is -- what do you think the greatest concern is about having these retired military commanders in these top cabinet civilian posts? KINZINGER: Well, I don't have a great number of concerns about them.

But what I've heard from colleagues on the other side of the aisle is, you know, there has to be a separation between, in essence, civilian leadership and military leadership. I fully agree with that.

And that's why, you know, again, if he was taking somebody that's a currently serving general and placing them in the role of secretary of defense, for instance, there would be widespread opposition to that.

But, instead, you have a guy that's, you know, really been dedicated to the cause of the nation, to the defense of the nation. And has been retired for three years. And you're putting him in a position where he can shake up the Pentagon. As we've read about the waste that was buried in the Pentagon. And understands what we need to do to prosecute the war against ISIS, and whatever comes after ISIS.

BLITZER: Do you have any concerns about his picks so far?

KINZINGER: I don't. You know, the only one slight concern, slight interest in is, obviously, General Flynn and for the reasons you lined a little bit earlier. And some of the things that I've heard, potentially, about Russia and his, I guess, affection to it.

But he's been very good about what we need to do to destroy terror. What we need to do to destroy Al Qaeda, ISIS and all these, though. You know, that's -- NSA is Donald Trump's pick and we'll see how he does there.

BLITZER: That was the concern expressed from Tim Kaine, the senator from Virginia.

Let's talk about retired General John Kelly. He's the man tapped to become next secretary of Homeland Security. He's a retired U.S. Marine Corps general, as you know. He led the U.S. southern command under President Obama. He's a former senior military assistant to defense secretary Leon Panetta.

[13:10:13] One other very important point. He is a gold star dad. His son, second Lieutenant Robert Kelly, was killed while serving in Afghanistan. Let's listen to a clip of a speech, a very powerful speech, General Kelly gave back in 2014 at a California gold star parents event. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN KELLY (RETIRED), U.S. MARINE CORPS: When future generations ask why America is still free in the heyday of these terrorists and their allies, was counted in days rather than centuries, as they said, as they proclaimed would work or would happen, that our hometown heroes, our soldiers, our sailors, our airmen, our Coasts Guardsmen, our Marines, that they can say, because of me and people like me who risked all to protect millions, millions who will never know my name, that's why we still have an America.

And for those of you tonight and all of the families that have lost the light of their lives, they can say to every American, that it was my boy or it was my girl who stood their post and did their duty into eternity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Very emotional, powerful words from General Kelly. Do you think, Congressman, that having a gold star father as the secretary of Homeland Security will make a difference?

KINZINGER: Yes, I think so. That was the first time I've ever heard that and it choked me up, to be honest with you.

I think it does make a difference. You know, it's one thing to be in the military command. It's one thing to talk about defending the homeland. It's a totally other thing to have felt that sacrifice, personally.

And, you know, you see that in the weight of a president as he has to order troops into combat. But you especially see that in the weight of somebody that lost somebody serving. And it puts a different perspective on, you know, what sacrifice is. It puts a different perspective on, you know, what freedom and what America means. And I think that's a good perspective to come.

BLITZER: You should listen to the whole speech he delivered. It's a powerful speech, Congressman. And you served in Afghanistan. You served in Iraq. And I'm sure you lost friends fighting for the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To hear General Kelly speak, as a gold star dad, as a gold star father, remembering, obviously, his own son who was killed in action in Afghanistan and so many others who died in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere, very powerful. I recommend it to our viewers as well.

Congressman, thanks very much for your service. Thanks for joining us.

KINZINGER: You bet, Wolf. God bless the troops. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, new signs that Ivanka Trump may play a big role in her father's incoming administration. We have details.

Plus, Donald Trump says he sought advice from President Obama on several cabinet picks. What are we learning about those conversations and their personal relationship?

We'll be right back.

[13:13:15]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:03] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Donald Trump says he sold all his stocks back in June to avoid any possible conflict of interest, but what about his business empire? "The New York Times" is reporting that he's not ready to sever all his ties. He's going to announce what he's going to do on December 15th.

Our Money correspondent, Cristina Alesci, is joining us from New York right now.

Cristina, what do we know about Donald Trump's plan to address this potential conflict?

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Well, "The New York Times" is reporting that he plans - he may hand operations over to his children, but not ownership. And that's an important distinction because that puts him at risk for violating the Constitution on day one of his presidency.

What do we know so far exactly? Trump plans to keep ownership. Don and Eric potentially may be running the operations on a daily basis. And Ivanka actually might leave the Trump Organization to take some kind of role in the administration. Unclear what that is right now. It's also unclear how this jives with anti-nepotism laws.

Also, Trump supposedly, allegedly, according to "The Times" reporting, will not sell or does not want to sell his business outright to his children or anyone else because he would take a large tax hit, Wolf. So there's a consideration there.

BLITZER: What do the experts - are the ethics experts saying about this?

ALESCI: They don't like it. I've been speaking to them all along about the potential for this kind of arrangement. And one by one, both sides of the aisle have renounced this kind of plan, saying it does not - it does not - it's - it's not really above board. And, also, the Office of Government Ethics has urged Trump to go ahead and divest his holdings, suggesting that is the best way to really put this issue to bed, Wolf.

BLITZER: It's going to be an issue. And we'll see what he says specifically on December 15th.

The Dow Jones really going up. Another huge day for the Dow Jones, for stock investors today. I suspect Donald Trump might regret having sold all his stock back in June. It's gone up more than 1,000 points, the Dow Jones Industrials, since he won the election a little bit more than a month ago. I guess investors are very upbeat about what he might be planning on doing for business. Is that - is that right?

ALESCI: Well, there are a couple of things at play, Wolf. Number one, investors and analysts were very uneasy with not knowing who the president would be. Now they have an answer. And they can kind of guess and make investment decisions based on what they think Donald Trump will do. So an element of uncertainty was removed from the market.

Also, they're seeing a pretty orderly transition process happen. So they're not freaked out by the way Donald Trump is handling things so far. And you're right, in the long term, they see the prospect for lower taxes, less regulation and a very intense focus on boosting growth. And if you look at the people who he is appointing in very key positions in terms generating that economic activity, the market seems to like those decisions as well, Wolf.

[13:20:06] BLITZER: Yes, lower tax, less regulation, they certainly like those ideas. Let's put up the Dow Jones once again, a record high right now, you see 19,600-plus. The Dow Jones up another, what, 80 points today, 19,629 right now. We'll continue to watch the market.

Cristina, thanks very much for that report.

Coming up, there are early signs that Donald Trump's controversial choice for EPA administrator, the Environmental Protection Agency, may hit a roadblock in Senate confirmation hearings. We'll discuss that and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:07] BLITZER: Environmentalists and some Democrats already sounding the alarm over one of President-elect Donald Trump's latest cabinet picks. But the fossil fuel industry is applauding the choice of the Oklahoma attorney general, Scott Pruitt.

Let's bring in our panel to discuss that and more. We have "Time" magazine political reporter Zeke Miller with us, A.B. Stoddard, associate editor and columnist for Real Clear Politics, and our CNN political director David Chalian.

David, how much of a fight will there be over Pruitt's confirmation?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: There's going to be a fight. You have to remember, these fights aren't necessarily going to end up with derailing nominations. The Democrats don't have the power really to do so.

BLITZER: A simple majority in the Senate -

CHALIAN: That's right.

BLITZER: To confirm.

CHALIAN: That's right.

BLITZER: And the Republicans are in the majority.

CHALIAN: They have a simple majority.

BLITZER: Yes.

CHALIAN: So - so it's a lot tougher to see ways in which nominations are going to be derailed. But clearly this is going to be a fight. This has Democrats and environmentalists, as you said, sort of up in arms. I would add this to Tom Price at HHS, maybe Ben Carson at HUD, Betsy DeVos in the Education Department, these are some where the liberals and the Democrats are really going to try to focus and make a fight of it, even if they know they don't have the power to stop it. BLITZER: Do they know - I assume they know, the Democrats, they're

probably not going to get enough Republicans to come to their side to derail these nominations.

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR & COLUMNIST, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Right. I mean they know their - these are losing battles, but battles they have to wage nonetheless. I think -

BLITZER: And there are some Democrats who might vote to confirm, moderate Democrats like Joe Manchin and others, so -

STODDARD: Right. If you're up in 2018 in a state that Trump won, in Montana or Missouri or other places where you're going to have a hard fight on your hand, you're going to think twice about how many of these you're going to vote against. Pick your battles. Everyone's going to vote for Mattis for secretary of defense. He's very popular. They realize that was not a fight to wage over whether or not to pass a waiver to allow him to serve. And so they're going to have to look at sort of where is the pressure coming from the left, from environmentalists, from, you know, civil rights, Democrats who are upset about the pick of Carson and concerns over urban policy under him. Jeff Sessions, voting rights at the Department of Justice, what's going to happen to voting rights? So they're going to sort of assess in the coming weeks where they're going to pick their battles. And then a few of those pickoff senators who are in cycle are going to have to defy their party and vote for Trump's picks.

BLITZER: During the campaign, the president-elect, as a candidate, gave some mixed signals about his attitude toward the Environmental Protection Agency and some other cabinet slots. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS: Would you cut departments?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: No, I'm not cutting services, but I'm cutting spending. But I may cut Department of Education. Environmental Protection, what they do is a disgrace. Every week they come out with new regulations. They're making it impossible -

WALLACE: Who's going to protect the environment?

TRUMP: They - we'll be fine with the environment. We can leave a little bit, but you can't destroy businesses.

I will refocus the EPA on its core mission of ensuring clean air and clean, safe drinking water for all Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That last clip we saw, only from September. So his position on the EPA has evolved from getting rid of it to re-focusing the EPA on its core mission, clean air, clean water.

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, "TIME": And the Obama administration would contend that some of those regulations that Donald Trump doesn't like are there to do just that. So, you know, it's going to be a matter of interpretation, what does Donald Trump have to do in order to prove to his supporters that he was serious about cutting regulations, about doing those things. At the same time, he doesn't want to be the president that, you know, that is responsible for it (INAUDIBLE) more water - sort of, you know, contaminated water or contaminated air. That's not what he - you know, he doesn't want that PR disaster.

And also, of course, you know, his daughter, and he met with vice - former Vice President Al Gore, a noted environmentalist. So there's an element for him in terms of just - he - really in all of these cabinet posts, he wants to take symbolic steps, get a lot of attention for making those things, fulfilling those promises, but does he really want to upset the boat - the ship too much? Because for Donald Trump, he doesn't really - he wants - he wants to be liked by a lot of people and rocking the ship too much doesn't do that.

CHALIAN: I think it's a really important point that Zeke is making because we have to remember, he's going to make all these appointments, but Donald Trump is going to dictate policy from the White House to all of these agencies. These - these people who, many of whom are used to being the boss, they're former CEOs or whatever, are no longer going to be the boss. So the - you have to watch both signals. It is what Donald Trump, you know, cares about the optics that Zeke is talking about, wants to meet with Al Gore, doesn't want to be the guy dealing with a PR disaster that he's dirtying the environment, but is putting somebody in who's going to really placate his base so he feels like he's staying true to the principles. But we're going to have to watch what the policies are coming out of the White House because these cabinet selections only tell us so much about sort of checking a box in many ways. I don't know fully that it tells us how the agenda's going to roll out.

BLITZER: Because when Al Gore was over at Trump Tower earlier in the week, A.B., he emerged from that meeting, he seemed pretty upbeat about the conversation he had with the president-elect. And then all of a sudden this EPA selection, it goes in the complete opposite direction.

[13:29:53] STODDARD: Well, I think David's right. I mean, first of all, with Donald Trump, his hallmark is to be consistently inconsistent and to sort of be really animated by the last conversation that he had or the last sort of debate that took place. And so he obviously made a point to have Al Gore there. I don't know that it was a total head fake. He was apparently on that letter to the - to "The New York Times" a few years ago talking about