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Trump And Trudeau Having Joint News Conference; Unhappiness Over Flynn; Options on Travel Ban; Flynn under Fire; Kremlin Says Sanctions not Discussed. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 13, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- 9:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, diplomacy tops the agenda on day 25 of the Trump administration. Also, the White House faces a deadline today in the battle over the president's travel ban and behind the scenes, there is trouble, serious trouble within the Trump team.

On the diplomatic front, President Trump is meeting today with the visiting Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau. The two leaders hold a joint news conference right at the top of the hour. We'll, of course, have live coverage for you. You're looking at live pictures from the east room of the White House right there.

The judge who put President Trump's travel ban on hold wants to hear from both sides by 3:00 p.m. Eastern later today. That should give us an indication of the Trump administration's next move.

And several key advisors appointed by the president are coming under fire. Perhaps most notably, the national security advisor, Michael Flynn. We'll take a closer look at all the troubles facing Flynn and other key members of the president's inner circle. That's coming up.

Let's get some more on all of this first from our reporters. Our White House Correspondent Sara Murray is joining us. Our Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown is with us. And our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.

Sara, let's -- give us a preview, first of all, of the major issues President Trump and Prime Minister Trudeau will be discussing. They're meeting in the Oval Office. They'll be having an extend -- have extended conversations before. In about one hour, they go into the east room for their news conference.

SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. And they've already, sort of, started in this roundtable meeting. And it gives you an indication of how these two leaders are trying to find common ground. Prime minister Trudeau is really seen as a liberal icon. And he got along well with President Obama on a number of issues.

Obviously, with President Trump, we're on different footing. We know they disagree on things like Syrian refugees, but today they're hammering home this notion of female empowerment. Trudeau has made no secret of the fact that he declares himself very proudly a feminist, so we saw he and President Trump in this meeting earlier today with President Trump's daughter, Ivanka Trump, talking about this new coalition they are launching together. A joint initiative to try to advance women entrepreneurs and female business leaders.

This does seem like a way for them to present a united front. We will see if that is maintained throughout this press conference this afternoon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Stand by.

Pamela, the judge who issued that original restraining order, blocking the president's travel ban, wants to hear from both sides in just about two hours from now. Explain what's happening in the legal fight over the president's travel ban which, as you know, has been rejected by the federal court so far.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And so, what we're being told is that the Trump administration and top lawyers are huddling right now trying to figure out the next step after that stinging loss in the Ninth Circuit. As one source I spoke to said, there is a lot of lawyering going on.

And so, basically, today, Judge Robart in the Washington state court, the district court, is asking for both sides to file briefs by 3:00 p.m. And there's going to be a phone conversation at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

And so, at issue there -- the issue to be covered during the telephonic hearing is should the temporary restraining order that Judge Robart issued about a week ago, a week and a half ago, should that endure through the trial on the merit of this travel ban or should the government be allowed to, you know, push for what it's been asking for, for the travel ban to move forward while the appeals process goes on? And so, that's going to be what's discussed today.

And then, you have this other issue, Wolf, that we spoke about on Friday where the Ninth Circuit, one judge in the Ninth Circuit, is asking for a larger panel to look at this case called Onbonk (ph).

And so, there's that at play as well. And the government is expected to file briefs, and the state as well, by Thursday.

So, there's a lot going on in the legal front -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And we'll see what the decision is by the Trump White House, the Trump Justice Department. That could be released fairly soon. Stand by for more on that.

Barbara, you're over at the Pentagon. The president's national security advisor, retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, he's now said to be on very thin ice. He's in deep trouble for speaking to the Russian ambassador to the United States about sanctions before President Trump took office, and then misleading the vice president of the United States, Mike Pence, about that.

How much trouble is Flynn in right now and is he likely to survive?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is what everyone is waiting to see. They -- it may come down, officials tell us, about the question of Flynn's personal relationship with President Trump. President Trump is someone who's known to be very loyal to those who are loyal to him. And that certainly has been Michael Flynn since the early days of the campaign.

But Donald Trump does not like to appear to look foolish in his decision making in public, and Flynn may have crossed the line in making the president look that way.

[13:05:02] Flynn first adamant that he did not discuss the Obama sanctions with the Russian ambassador prior to President Trump being sworn in. Of course, these were the sanctions that Obama put on the Russians in the final days because of their alleged involvement with the U.S. elections.

But now, it looks like he did talk to them about that and has gone back -- has had to go back on his word on Vice President Pence that no such conversations took place. This is putting Flynn, of course, in a very difficult situation with both Pence and Trump.

So, the question is going to be, in the coming days, will Donald Trump remain loyal to Flynn or if it gets too hot politically, will he cut Flynn loose because he certainly doesn't want to appear to have made a bad decision by hiring on Flynn in the first place -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, a lot of people are wondering what the president is going to decide.

Barbara, the president also faces a major test right now in the global stage. North Korea, as you know, they launched a medium range ballistic missile over the weekend. How significant is that action by North Korea? And how has the Trump administration responded?

STARR: Well, North Korea actually may be showing some new capability in this missile test, but how the Trump administration is reacting is equally fascinating. Some pictures, some photos emerging over the weekend being taken by someone at a dinner in Mar-a-Lago in Florida where Mr. Trump and the Japanese leader, Abe, were having dinner. These photos showing some documents being spread out on the table, a phone call happening, all about this North Korea ballistic test.

Why the test may be so important, the North Koreans, for the first time, showing the launch of what is usually a submarine launch missile launched by land. And this is a missile that is solid fuel and this becomes something much more difficult for U.S. intelligence to track.

So, the U.S. watching this carefully. And everybody watching to see if the Trump administration has any specific reaction beyond strong words. Will the Trump administration take any action, possibly send more U.S. military capability to the Pacific as a show of force against the North Koreans? That's not happening yet, but those options certainly remain out there for President Trump to act upon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it looks like that could be a key subject at the news conference -- the joint news conference that the Canadian prime minister and the president will be having right at the top of the hour. We'll have live coverage of that.

Barbara Starr, thank you. Sara Murray, Pamela Brown, thanks to you as well.

Let's talk a little bit more about all the day's major headlines. Joining us now from New York is James Woolsey, the former CIA director during the Bill Clinton administration. He's a former senior advisor also to President Trump's campaign.

Thanks so much, Director Woolsey, for joining us.

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Great to be with you always, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, do you think Mike Flynn can survive this major blunder on his part?

WOOLSEY: I don't know. It's not entirely clear it was a blunder. There are conflicting claims.

But President Trump moves fast on things. And Mike Flynn moves fast on things.

And sometimes you want -- often, you want at least one party in the decision making in the government to say, you know, wait a minute. Let's rest here for a minute. Have a coke. Get the experts in. Kick the idea around and see whether or not we've got a violation or we've got something that we have to deal with.

But if everybody is moving fast and nobody is saying, boss, we need to take some time on this one before we make a decision, it can create a very difficult situation. And that may be where they are now.

BLITZER: Yes. Well, there is a thunder of silence right now. I don't hear anyone in a senior White House position, including the president of the United States, saying nice things about him, at least for now.

Here is the problem he has. And you're a former director of the CIA. You'll appreciate this. He had several conversations, apparently, with the Russian ambassador here in Washington, including on that day that the Obama administration released those new sanctions against Russia. Expelled 35 Russian diplomats for the Russians' involvement in the U.S. presidential campaign, the cyber-attacks if you will.

He denied that he raised or discussed the issue of sanctions at all with the ambassador. Mike Pence, the Vice President, and other administration officials went on T.V. They denied sanctions came up.

But, all of a sudden, a transcript apparently emerges from that conversation. U.S. intelligence subject, you know well, intercepting, listening in on that conversation. And it shows that sanctions, apparently, were discussed in that conversation.

Now, Flynn says, I don't remember. I can't recall. That's a serious problem, as far as his credibility with the president, the vice president are concerned.

[13:10:01] WOOLSEY: It is a serious problem because, depending on the timing, it could create legal problems with discussing something with a foreign country before you are authorized to and so on.

I think there's a real difficulty here that stems out of what looks to be a lack of precision. You mentioned the possibility of a recording. Well, that's -- the reason you have recordings in conversations like this, between heads of state or a very senior official and head of state, is so that you can go back and piece together exactly what was said when and whether or not it was properly worded and whether we're going to still stick with what we said before and so on.

And it looked, for a while, as if that was not present here. And then, it looks maybe as if it was present. There's still a lot of confusion.

BLITZER: There is. And, presumably, we'll get some more clarification in the hours and days to come.

Let's talk about North Korea for a moment. Tests fired a missile over the weekend. President Trump took the call during a dinner he was having at Mar-a-Lago, his estate -- his resort in Balm Beach, Florida. A dinner he was having with the prime minister Abe of Japan.

Are you concerned? And we've got the pictures now. You can see, there were a lot of people who don't have security clearances walking around, waiters, among others. And a lot of guests that classified information apparently was being discussed at a dinner like this in the open, and it's raising -- it's raising a lot of concern that maybe they should have gone into a secure room to discuss the reaction, and to discuss -- to get that initial briefing on North Korea's ballistic missile test.

What would you have preferred?

WOOLSEY: Well, that shouldn't happen in an uncleared facility. The basic problem here, though, is what do we do with the crazy North Korea? And it seems to me that sending some military forces to the region, carrier battle groups, whatever, is called for here.

We can't let the Chinese and others say these Americans are just a paper tiger. They say that we're not supposed to do something and then, like Syria several years ago, they ignore. And so, we've got to show that we can at least move some forces into the region.

And I think that the situation with North Korea is worse than a lot of people realize because they can orbit a satellite. And they can fire a nuclear weapon. They have nuclear weapons.

If you can detonate a satellite with a nuclear weapon in it above the earth in certain locations, you can knock out the electric grid underneath, and that's, to put it mildly, a very big problem.

BLITZER: Is North Korea the biggest security -- national security threat facing the U.S. right now?

WOOLSEY: I think I would say, in terms of urgency, probably yes. Fundamentally, I would say more Iran because Iran is the world sponsor of terrorism all over the place. And they are really committed to the destruction of the United States. North Korea may be.

Russia and China, especially Russia, I think, is a matter of some substantial concern. But I'd put North Korea and Iran up there right at the top.

BLITZER: But you say Iran is committed to the destruction of the United States? They don't have that capability, though, do they, Director Woolsey?

WOOLSEY: Not yet with a nuclear weapon. But I don't think they are many years away from a nuclear weapon. I think they may be in a relatively short time away.

And, in terms of their attacks through terrorism, through the revolutionary guard and elsewhere, and throughout the Middle East and throughout other parts of the world, Iran is a very serious problem already and will be a much bigger one very shortly.

BLITZER: So, you don't accept the notion that they're honoring their commitments to halt their nuclear program with the nuclear -- the nuclear weapons deal -- the nuclear deal that the U.N. put together, the U.S. participated in that? Because you heard the E.U., the European Union, representative say after her meetings here in Washington, the Trump administration is now committed to honoring that nuclear deal.

WOOLSEY: I think that the chance that the Iranians are keeping their word is about as close to zero as diplomatic relationships go.

BLITZER: Well, on that, there's a lot of disagreement with you. You hear from administration officials and even, by the way, some Trump administration officials who say, apparently, they're honoring their commitments. At least the narrow commitments on the nuclear program, at least so far.

[13:15:03] But on that point we'll continue our discussion.

WOOLSEY: Maybe, very briefly.

BLITZER: All right. We'll see what happens down the road. The former CIA director, James Woolsey, joining us. Thank you.

Coming up, we'll get a different perspective. Congressman Adam Schiff. He's the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. He's standing by live. We'll get his take on Donald Trump's national security advisor, Michael Flynn. We'll discuss North Korea, its commitments, including Iran. Also, take a look at this, live pictures from the White House where

President Trump and visiting Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will be holding a joint news conference in about 45 minutes or so. Just moments ago you can see the two were seen walking over to a lunch at the White House. Live coverage coming up.

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BLITZER: President Donald Trump and his advisors say they have a lot of options on their proposed travel ban, the one that was halted by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in a unanimous decision against the administration. We could learn the White House strategy as early as this afternoon.

Joining us now, Congressman Adam Schiff of California. He's a Democrat, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

[13:20:00] Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: You bet.

BLITZER: What's your advice to the White House, to the president, to the Justice Department right now, what to do about that travel ban?

SCHIFF: I think they should scrap it. I think it was an ill-conceived idea. If they want to explore any further vetting that should be put in place, they should do that, but they shouldn't essentially say we're going to ban immigration from these Muslim countries. It sends exactly the wrong message. It plays into al Qaeda and ISIS narrative. And it alienates a lot of our allies in the region. Our work in Iraq in particular just got a lot more difficult.

BLITZER: What about Michael Flynn, the president's national security advisor? Should he go?

SCHIFF: He should go. He should go. You know, we certainly need to get to the bottom of just what he discussed with the Russian ambassador, but his explanation now that he doesn't remember whether he talked about sanctions just is incredible. And bear in mind, this is a guy who relentlessly and unjustifiably attacked Susan Rice claiming that she misled the country. And now it looks like he's been misleading the country on an issue of signal importance.

BLITZER: Is there hard intelligence, hard information confirming that he lied to the vice president, Mike Pence, by denying that the subject of sanctions in that phone call with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak ever came up?

SCHIFF: I don't know the answer yet. It's something I think the Intelligence Committee ought to be investigating as part of its investigation into Russian covert influence. But I think the reason that Flynn is in such trouble right now and the reason why the Trump administration just doesn't label this as fake news is they know that if there is a transcript, if there are recordings, that can't be dismissed. That's why I think they have to take this seriously. But, frankly, the policy is enormously wrong-headed of easing

sanctions on Russia, but the fact that they would mislead the country about this is inexplicable.

BLITZER: Isn't it routine, though, that the U.S. would monitor phone conversations, especially on open lines, that a Russian ambassador or high ranking Russian official might have with an American?

SCHIFF: You know, that's not something I can comment on, but I think prudently if I were an American in Russia, I would certainly assume that they were listening in on any of my conversations. And, obviously, we have a keen interest in what the Russians are discussing.

What I think is interesting here, there are allegations, again, as yet unproven, that they may have also used encrypted communications since Flynn was talking with the Russians. If he was using cryptic communications, it wasn't to conceal it for the Russians. And you have to ask, who were they concealing the conversation from?

BLITZER: Well, this is an important element. Explain what you mean that when he made that call, and apparently there were several phone calls to the Russian ambassador here in Washington, he was part of the transition team. He was a top national security advisor to the then president-elect. What kind of encrypted communication would they be? U.S. government approved encrypted communications?

SCHIFF: Well, you know, some have alleged that there were, in addition to phone calls, there were encrypted communications. This is something I think we need to determine as part of an investigation. But if there were, then, of course, the question is, why were those being used? Who were those conversations to be concealed from? Why was it necessary to go to that if you were talking about simply Christmas greetings, as Sean Spicer apparently misrepresented to the country?

BLITZER: Are you worried - I mean there's been some concern out there that - forget about the - the one phone conversation that Michael Flynn may have had with the Russian ambassador and then misleading the vice president and other officials, including the White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, Press Secretary Sean Spicer, forget about that, but that there's a broader problem involving Michael Flynn's connection with Russia?

SCHIFF: This is the most serious allegation that was made in these articles, and that is that the December 29th communication between Flynn and the Russian ambassador wasn't a one-off, that it was a part of a long series of communications that took place during the campaign. Now, that's four square within the investigations that we need to be doing on the intelligence committees. But that would mean the potential of collusion. Here you have the Russians hacking, conducting illegal, covert operations in the United States. If there was any kind of cooperation, collaboration with the Trump campaign, that would violate numerous laws and be far more significant than any potential violation of the Logan Act.

BLITZER: I've covered U.S.-Russian relations for a long time. Used to be the Soviet Union. I don't remember ever - and we could go back and triple check, a time when the U.S. imposes some sanctions against Russia expelling 35 diplomats, and then all of a sudden the Russians say, you know what, we're not going to respond in kind, because almost always throughout that long history and especially during the Cold War, the U.S. does something, the Russians do exactly the opposite in return. And the question is being asked, did Flynn say something to the Russian ambassador that eventually got up to Putin to say, you know, we're not going to expel American diplomats, for example, in retaliation.

SCHIFF: This is why that call is so suspicious, taking place on the day that sanctions are announced, the very uncharacteristic, indeed probably unprecedented Russian unwillingness to respond in any way. It certainly is suggestive of a conversation that sent a signal to Moscow and to the Kremlin, don't react to this. We'll take care of this. And, again, the context is, this is right after an election in which the Russians helped Donald Trump. Sanctions were imposed as a punishment for that and here you have the chief national security proxy for Trump potentially telling the Russians, we'll take care of it.

[13:25:30] BLITZER: And it was very curious because the Putin decision not to expel American diplomats impose sanctions in return followed a public statement by the Russian foreign minister saying the Russians would respond directly with sanctions of its own and expulsions of its own. So it was very, very curious, all of that, and I'm sure they're looking closely to see if there was a Michael Flynn role in that decision, any of that down the road.

SCHIFF: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Very serious allegations.

Very quickly, before I let you go, do you agree with Director Woolsey, North Korea, right now, is the top national security threat facing the U.S.?

SCHIFF: You know, I'm not sure whether it's North Korea or Iran? Probably on any given day it seems like either would qualify. But I do think that the - that North Korea is more likely to have the serious flash point because if they get to the point where they can put miniaturized nuclear weapons on an intercontinental ballistic missile, then you are at a decision point, and that's a very tough decision.

I think with the Iran nuclear deal, we've put off any kind of confrontation like that, at least for over a decade. So I think perhaps the more immediate threat in terms of nuclear weapons comes from North Korea. The more approximate terrorism threat comes from Iran.

BLITZER: You're assuming the Iranians honor the nuclear deal, then it would be put off for - at least for a decade. But there are a lot of people who are wondering, will the Iranians continue?

SCHIFF: Well, and we're -

BLITZER: So far they're honoring it, but let's see what happens. SCHIFF: We're watching them like a hawk.

BLITZER: I'm sure you are. I'm sure the U.S. intelligence community is. I'm sure the Trump administration is as well.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Adam Schiff of the Intelligence Committee.

Live pictures, take a look over there, of the East Room of the White House. The president of the United States, the prime minister of Canada, they will be having a news conference, a joint news conference, right at the top of the hour in about a half an hour or so from now. They'll open with statements, answer reporters' questions.

Stay with us. Our live coverage continues.

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