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CBO to Release Score; White House Press Briefing. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 13, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- from the Congressional Budget Office --

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BLITZER: -- which will lay out details of the Republicans' play to repeal and replace Obamacare. That would include how much it will cost, how many people will get that kind of insurance.

How important, though, is this CBO's assessment?

ZELENY: Wolf, I think the CBO score is very important. And I can tell you, the Republicans I'm talking to on Capitol Hill in leadership are nervous about this number. They are not expecting it to be a good number at all, in terms of how expensive this will be and how many people may lose coverage in this as well.

And we saw last week, some people in the administration were trying to downplay the accuracy of the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office. You know, and it was not entirely accurate, by any means, in the Affordable Care Act. But it was the most approximate estimate that anyone, sort of, gave at that point.

But I do expect Sean Spicer to be asked about that Congressional Budget Office score, which we expect later today, perhaps this afternoon.

I'm told Speaker Paul Ryan is likely to address it this afternoon to talk about the cost. But they believe it is, you know, probably not a good piece of information to come out. We just have to wait and see what it says --- Wolf.

BLITZER: We will wait and see, of course together with you, Jeff. Thanks very much. We'll also wait and hear --

ZELENY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: -- from Sean Spicer. That's coming up momentarily.

In the meantime, let's bring in two members of Congress. Joining us now, Congressman Ted Lieu. He's a Democrat from California, a member of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs Committee. And Republican Congressman Francis Rooney of Florida, also a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

To both of you gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. And let me start with you, Congressman Rooney. Several prominent Republicans, John McCain, Paul Ryan, even the president's counselor, Kellyanne Conway, they've said they've seen no evidence to back up the wiretap claims made by the president more than a week ago.

If the president, Congressman, doesn't come forward with solid evidence, do you believe he should apologize to President Obama and to the American people?

REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R), FLORIA, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, I don't think that we can make -- tell the president what to do unless we're willing to say that he did something that was illegal. He can make spurious comment about a wiretap.

You know, I don't think that we can sit and say, now, you need to apologize. I think we need to bring the people in that issue warrants to the Intelligence Committees and let them find out what happened, first.

BLITZER: Well, even if it wasn't illegal, Congressman, if he makes an accusation that the president of the United States, now the former president, committed a felony, illegally wiretapping him during the campaign over at Trump Tower in New York City, even if that weren't necessarily illegal what the president -- what the president was saying, wouldn't it require some explanation, some retraction and some sort of apology?

ROONEY: Well, it's unfortunate the state of the country that we're in right now, where everything is so partisan, so harsh, so bitter. Some of the things that were said during the campaign were very difficult. Things that were said since the campaign are very difficult.

And my two months as a nation's Congressman, watching the partisanship right there on each committee on the House floor is not the way our country started out to be.

BLITZER: Yes, but I think you agree. And I want to bring in Congressman Lieu in a second. I think you agree, he's no longer a candidate. He's no longer simply a business leader. He is the president of the United States. He has to be very precise in his words.

And when he tweets, more than a week ago, four tweets, 6:35 in the morning. Terrible, just found out Obama had my wires tapped in Trump Tower. Just before the victory, nothing found. This is McCarthyism. Then, he says that the former president is a bad or a sick guy. This is Nixon Watergate.

If there's no evidence to back any of that up, let me just press you one more time, should he retract and apologize?

ROONEY: Well, you know, Mr. Trump has his own unique style. This is not the first time that things like this would have been said.

BLITZER: But he's now the president. But he's now the president of the United States. ROONEY: That's true. He is the president of the United States and

he's continued to use his tweeting style and say things that many people might not say. I would like to get to the bottom of were there warrants or not first. Then, let's take a look at all the circumstances surrounding them.

BLITZER: All right, let me bring in Congressman Lieu. I want you to respond to what we just heard.

REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA, HOUSE JUDICIARY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Wolf. There's only two reasonable explanations. Either U.S. intelligence officials and an independent FISA court judge believe there were foreign agents at Trump Tower or Donald Trump is making stuff up again.

And let me just say, lying is not a unique style. It's just lying. So, my belief is Donald Trump likely lied about this wiretap. He falsely accused President Obama as being a bad and sick person. Donald Trump needs to apologize if he cannot come up with evidence.

BLITZER: What if there was something else going on? You heard what Congressman Rooney suggested, maybe there were some wiretaps that were legal having nothing to do directly with the then candidate but maybe others over at Trump Tower in New York City and maybe the president got confused. What about that?

[13:05:08] Lieu: It's possible that a warrant was also issued if a judge believed there was probable cause of criminal activity happening at Trump Towers.

I fully support an investigation. I think we need to get to the bottom of this and we need to know why do intelligence officials or the FBI believe that there was criminal activity or agents of a foreign influence at Trump Towers.

BLITZER: Congressman Rooney, let's get to the other big issue of what's going on now, health care. I assume you're with the president, right? Are you with the president on this Paul Ryan sponsored legislation?

ROONEY: Well, it's a good start, you know? Obamacare is in such a death spiral. As the CEO of Aetna said this week, we've got to do something. You know, a third of the counties in the country only have one insurer. And in my state, almost half the counties only have one insurer.

So, if we can bring choice and competition back into health care, I think the free market can function there to make it better for everybody.

BLITZER: Well, do you like the legislation, as it currently stands, or are you with some of the more conservative Republicans in the House calling this Obamacare-lite?

ROONEY: Well, I understand the limitations of the reconciliation process and the speaker's determination to do all he can do under reconciliation as a phase one of the three-phase process.

I like the fact they're talking about a penalty for people that gain the system and drop coverage, because we're going to keep pre-existing conditions in all circumstances. I like the fact that you can raise the price for age because that coverage is more expensive for age.

So, it's aligning the coverage with market realities and health realities. I think it's very important to get rid of those mandates and I think it's important to provide the maximum of flexibility to insurance companies to price their products accordingly.

BLITZER: Let me get Congressman Lieu to weigh in. Is there any part of this Republican health care bill that you can support?

LIEU: Absolutely not because Republicans chose not to work with Democrats. I am on Obamacare. I am fine working with Republicans to try to make Obamacare better. But repealing Obamacare and replacing it with this disaster known as Trumpcare is not the way to go.

And keep in mind, Trumpcare is a direct attack on senior citizens. The AARP came out opposing this bill because it will raise health costs for senior citizens and threaten the insolvency of Medicare.

BLITZER: Go ahead and respond, Congressman Rooney.

ROONEY: Well, I think we have to do something. Like I say, it's a defective sociological, socioeconomic experiment that needs to be fixed by the free market.

You know, if we can get insurers to come out isolated high risk often that $100 billion fund so that the underwriting gives a stable platform where everybody can afford insurance.

And also, stimulate groups. You know, one thing that works in this whole deal is group insurance, like companies. And we passed a bill last week to allow smaller employers to band together to come up with enough covered lives to be efficient and have an offer in group insurance. I think that's an important thing.

BLITZER: Well, let me -- Congressman Rooney, you seemed to suggest this. Let me press you on this and then we'll get Congressman Lieu to respond. Elderly or more senior or older Americans, let's say between 50 and 64 years old. They're going to be paying more money out of their pocket to get health insurance under the Republican legislation. Are you OK with that?

ROONEY: Yes, I think the law allows the insurers to multiply the price up to five times instead of Obamacare is three times to align the premiums with the cost of care. Yes, I will do that.

BLITZER: So, you're OK if the out of pocket, thousand -- they have to spend thousands of dollars? A lot of your constituents, though, are, I'm sure, and a lot of people who voted for you, are between 50 and 64 years old. They're not going to be very happy, Congressman Rooney, when they hear that. ROONEY: Well, what's going to happen is those prices are going to go down, so they won't -- they shouldn't be paying as much as they're paying right now.

BLITZER: Congressman Lieu?

LIEU: I stand with the AARP. And I absolutely oppose charging senior citizens more for health coverage. Not only does this bill threaten Medicare, it also makes drastic cuts to Medicaid so senior citizens that require long-term care also get hurt.

And keep in mind, this entire proposal is not only opposed by Democrats, it's also opposed by Republican organizations such as Club for Growth, such as Heritage Action. There are a lot of organizations that oppose this, as well as the American Medical Association. This is a really bad bill.

BLITZER: Are you worried, Congressman Rooney, that -- let's say you get it passed in the House of Representatives but it fails in the Senate? And the Senate and the Republicans only have a 52-48 margin. They lose three Republicans on this, it goes down to defeat. There's no repeal. There's no replace.

Are you afraid that could undermine the Republican majority in the House of Representatives in the 2018 election, as some of your Republican colleagues are now fearful of, including Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas?

[13:10:03] ROONEY: Well, I saw what Senator Cotton said. I'm not sure I totally understand it. He's -- he knows a lot more about this than I do. He's been in it a long time.

But I think we need to concentrate on getting the best possible bill we can put forward -- put forward now to solve the problem and bring competition in and lower prices.

You know, I don't want seniors to pay more. And I want -- I want to see the free market work to bring prices down so they don't.

BLITZER: Congressman Rooney, Congressman Lieu, to both of you, thanks so much for joining us.

ROONEY: Thank you very much, Wolf.

LIEU: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

And on Wednesday night, the Health and Human Services secretary, Tom Price, will be taking your questions on health care in a live CNN town hall. Dana Bash and I will moderate. That's Wednesday night, 9:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Coming up, we're standing by to hear from the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, any moment now. He'll head up to the lectern and make a statement and start answering reporters' questions. We'll have live coverage of that. That starts after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:05] BLITZER: All right, these are live pictures coming in from the White House. Once again, momentarily, the press secretary, Sean Spicer, will be walking in, make a statement, start answering reporters' questions. Live coverage coming up.

Later this afternoon, by the way, President Trump will hold his first cabinet meeting of his new administration. They will let cameras in, we're told, right at the top of that meeting. CNN will bring you that video once it comes in as well.

In the meantime, health care reform is likely to be a major topic at the White House press briefing. Republicans are bracing for the Congressional Budget Office to release its analysis of their Obamacare replacement plan as soon as today. But already they're downplaying the CBO score as it's called. Here's what the White House budget director, Mick Mulvaney, said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET DIRECTOR: If the CBO was right about Obamacare to begin with, there would be 8 million more people on Obamacare today than there actually are. So I love the folks at the CBO. They work really hard. They do. But sometimes we ask them to do stuff they're not capable of doing and estimating the impact of a bill of this size probably isn't the - isn't the best use of their time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's bring in our panel.

A.B. Stoddard, associate editor, columnist for RealClearPolitics, Kirsten Powers, CNN political analyst, "USA Today Columnist, and our chief national correspondent John King, the anchor of "Inside Politics."

I suspect they fear these number that are about to be released as early as later today are not going to be beneficial to the Paul Ryan strategy of trying to get this passed.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, because they want to look at this as their bill will increase access. That if you have health coverage now, we're going to give you more choices. If you're in a county with only one Obamacare policy, there will be more choices. But the CBO is going to say x million of people will lose their coverage under this bill. And that politically is very hard. The Republicans try to do something that's very difficult. They're trying to take away a government benefit. They're trying to take - roll back a government entitlement. And because of that, people are going to lose their health care.

So the CBO score is one giant landmine as they try to pass this bill because they don't have all the Republican votes lined up yet. Never mind Democrats. No Democrat is going to be with them on this. As they try to get Republican votes, this is going to scare some people.

I also want to say, the president said something very significant earlier today. Prices will go down, down, down, choices will go up, up, up. That is tantamount to President Obama saying, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. President Trump better hope that's true because I can trust you, and Kirsten knows this better than I do, every Democratic ad firm in America has rolled on that and is holding that. And if the statistics a year or two down the road don't show that to be true, that's going to be a campaign ad.

BLITZER: Because they're already, as we pointed out, Kirsten, there's concerns among Republicans that if this doesn't work out as wonderfully as the president has suggested, 2018 could be a serious problem in the - in the majority - for the Republican majority in the House.

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Yes. Well, definitely. And it doesn't - looking at the plan, there doesn't seem to be anything that would necessarily change the dynamics that are problematic with Obamacare. So Obamacare is not perfect. There does - there are some problems. There's some people's premiums who have gone up. But a lot of the analysts have looked at it and the CBO probably will find the same thing, is that it's - it may actually make some people's premiums go up and not go down. And so that's one thing to really look at in the CBO numbers.

The other thing is, in order to use reconciliation, they have to show that they're going to save at least $2 billion over ten years. There's a possibility that it will come in under that, in which case they're going to have to go back to the drawing board because they - they want - they have to use reconciliation for this.

So, you know, they've tried to delegitimize the CBO. And so maybe they'll just say these numbers don't matter. But at some point they're going to have to come up with some sort of reasonable measure, right, for us to know what they're voting on.

BLITZER: And we should be getting those numbers as early as later this afternoon.

Have you ever seen such an effort in advance of a CBO assessment that's about to be released to diminish the whole process, to make it look like, you know what, they were so wrong in the past, don't even pay attention to these numbers. I don't remember a time when the Congressional Budget Office, which is non-partisan, often, you know, usually highly respected, has been in effect smeared like this.

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR & COLUMNIST, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Right. And it's - it's a little bit of sort of a cue from President Trump, the way he treats judges or courts before decisions come that might be unfavorable. This is a new tactic. It will be interesting to see when they come out with their criticism if whatever the numbers are if Democrats scratch up some old quotes from 2009 of Republicans saying things about CBO scoring and how important it was.

This is really - they've already previewed their talking points against some of the findings. You heard Speaker Ryan say, well, we're not going to have - the government won't be mandating coverage. So it's true that not as many people will be covered because you will be forced to. So you'll hear that as a way of sort of, you know, smoothing over the numbers. But it's true, if they get into a real math issues, combined with that political hard hit of the coverage number dropping, it will be a real scramble.

And you hear in President Trump's comments sort of a distancing. He says, first of all, the press try - no matter what they said for all these years, not matter what President Obama said, even if they had a functioning website, the people who are Obama - on Obamacare and found the deductibles too high, the coverage unaffordable, even if they had it, they didn't care what the press said. So, in two years, John's right, if those - if it is still an impractical coverage plan and it's still unaffordable, the voters who use it will know. It doesn't matter what the press is saying. But he's saying the Republicans when he talks about health care now and I think it's an interesting way of trying to sort of distance himself maybe from whatever they end up passing.

[13:20:25] BLITZER: I want to move on to some other issues, but let me play a clip because there seems to be a difference of opinion between Paul Ryan and the Health and Human Services secretary, Dr. Tom Price, when it comes to how many people might lose coverage under the Republican replacement plan. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM PRICE, HHS SECRETARY: I firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we're going through.

JOHN DICKERSON, CBS: How many people are going to lose coverage under this new -

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I can't answer that question. It's up to the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I will answer that question later. But in the meantime, let's go to Sean Spicer.

[13:20:56] SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president spent his weekend in a series of meetings with White House staff and advisers, planning for a full and productive week.

On Saturday, as many of you saw, the president had a working lunch with several members of his team, including Homeland Secretary Kelly, Treasury Secretary Mnuchin, Commerce Secretary Ross, Veterans Secretary Shulkin and members of his White House staff, during which they discussed immigration reform and their efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare.

Over the weekend, the vice president went down to Louisville, Kentucky. He was joined by Governor Matt Bevin for a listening session with over a dozen small business owners from Kentucky to discuss the burden that Obamacare inflicted on their business. The Kentucky business owners shared in detail how Obamacare is negatively affecting their businesses and reiterated their support for repealing our current health care system and replacing it with one that actually works.

This morning, after receiving his intelligence briefing, the president led another listening session on health care with Secretary of Health and Human Services Dr. Tom Price. The president and Secretary Price heard from nine concerned Americans from across the country who have been failed by the broken promises of Obamacare, as well as two doctors who have seen their patients suffer from the laws, misguided rules and requirements.

This listening session was another important step in the process of crafting and implementing an effective patient-centered health care. Americans have been watching their health care skyrocket, where their choices of providers and insurers have dwindled for years. They've received those cancellations in the mail as many as three times. They've seen urgent care and emergency rooms filled with people who can't afford their high deductibles and resorted to enduring pain and sickness, until they had no choice but to go the hospital.

They have had family members with chronic, pre-existing conditions whose cost of health care has more than doubled. They have been forced to let go of valued employees or frankly, unable to hire more, due to staggering workers' compensation increases.

The president campaigned on a pledge to repeal and then replace this unraveling system. The American Health Care Act is one part of fulfilling this pledge. It's far from the only one. He is using administrative action and provide essential regulatory relief to insurers, increasing coverage choices and providing lower premium options to individuals and families. He will continue to work with Congress on the additional legislation, part of his three-prong strategy to increase choice while decreasing prices, including allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines, adding to the list of health related costs patient can deduct with their health savings accounts, streamlining the process of the FDA so that lower priced, generic medicine gets to the market faster, inviting small business to band together to negotiate for lower health insurance for all their employees and reforming the medical malpractice lawsuit system so that doctors are not forced to perform unnecessary and costly procedures and tests out of future litigation.

Our health care system is large, complex and critically important not only to the health of our citizens, but to the health of our economy. Through common sense, patient-focused reforms, the president will work with Congress to create a new system that doesn't impose a one size fits all, government knows best vision on the American people. We will empower the American people to make their own choices about health care that make them best work for themselves and their family that will bring costs for everyone down.

After the listening session, the president had lunch with Vice President Pence and Secretary of Transportation Chao. Later this afternoon, the president will welcome all of his confirmed cabinet members to the White House for their first cabinet meeting. This meeting is an important opportunity for the president to share his vision with the country with his cabinet members, providing direction for them to bring back to their agencies and departments to ensure the entire administration is working towards the same goals.

Unfortunately, this afternoon, you'll see some empty chairs around the table, representing the President's four nominees who've yet to be confirmed by the Senate. Secretary of Agriculture designee, Governor Perdue, Secretary of Labor designee Alex Acosta, Director of National Intelligence designee, former Senator Coats and United States Trade Representative designee, Robert Lighthizer.

Senate Democrats have drawn out this entire process for way to long and these key agencies and departments will not be represented at the president's first Cabinet meeting. The president is confident that these unquestionable abilities of the confirmed Cabinet members that will be in attendance. He is just as confident in the demonstrate of quality of the individuals who will not be able to attend. Their absence will clearly be felt as this administration comes together for the first time to receive guidance from and provide counsel to the president on these unique areas of jurisdiction.

Following the Cabinet meeting, the president will sign an executive order to reorganize the federal government. This order requires a thorough examination of every executive department and agency to identify money -- where money is wasted and how services can be improved and whether or not the programs are truly serving the American people. This is the beginning of a long, overdue reorganization of the federal government and another significant step towards the president's often stated goal of making it more efficient, effective and accountable to the American people.

This evening, the president will have dinner with secretary of State Tillerson and National Security Advisor McMaster. Also, he hopes to see Seema Verma confirmed as the administrator -- senators for Medicare and Medicaid services, another unquestionably qualified nominee who's been shamelessly prevented from taking her position at a critical post.

Let me just kind of touch on the week ahead. Tomorrow, we -- based on the current forecast, we are currently in conversations and contact with officials in the Chancellors Office in Germany regarding the visit. We'll have an update regarding that visit later today. On Wednesday, the president will visit Detroit for a trip focusing on job creation and automobile manufacturing. He will meet with auto executives and workers and manufacturing suppliers, highlighting the need to eliminate burdens from regulations that needlessly hender meaningful job growth.

Also on Wednesday, the president will visit Nashville, where he will lay a wreath at President Andrew Jackson's tomb at the Hermitage. And as I told you last week on Thursday, the president will welcome the taoiseach Ireland for the traditional St. Patrick's Day visit. I can also confirm that the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad Bin Salman, will have a meeting with the president on Thursday of this week. Further -- excuse me -- on Thursday, I'll have further details of that visit for you soon.

And on Friday, the president will travel to Mar-a-Lago for the weekend. Finally, the president is aware of the forecast for the storm that's currently threatening the northeast. The president has been briefed by his homeland security adviser and the acting FEMA administrator on storm preparations. He is -- he has directed his inner government staff to remain in contact with governors and mayors in the path of the storm. He directed as acting FEMA administrator to lean forward and be prepared to help states should they require federal assistance.

We urge everyone to listen to state and local leaders and public safety officials to follow their warning and closure notice. They are the best source of information during that storm.

With that, I'd be glad to take your questions.

John (ph)?

QUESTION: Sean, I'd like to come back to the U.S. attorney for the southern district of New York, Preet Bharara, who was asked to resign along with 45 other U.S. attorneys. The president seemed to indicate, not too long ago, that he wanted Mr. Bharara to stay on in that job and he was asked to resign like the attorneys and that he says, he was fired on Saturday when he refused to resign.

Did the president change his mind about keeping him on or was it only supposed to be for a finite period of time? Can you just tell us--

SPICER: I'm going to refer you to the Department of Justice on that. I mean this is a standard operating procedure for a new administration around this time, to ask for the resignation of all the U.S. attorneys. We had most of them or a good chunk of them had already submitted their resignation letter. This is just the final swathe of individuals who had not at this time. But this is common practice of most -- of most administrations.

QUESTION: I understand that this -- this happened at the DOJ and the request was from the DOJ, but there seems to be a White House connection vis-a-vis the fact that the president had actually asked him to stay on. And then the president apparently called him a couple days before he was allegedly fired. Can you tell us what that was all about? Did the president change his mind?

SPICER: No, the president was calling to thank him for his service. This is a standard, as I said -- a standard action that takes place in most administrations. Secretary -- then Attorney General Reno sent out almost an identical letter in 1993, the Bush administration sent out a similar one as well. So I mean, this is a very common practice for all political appointees, not just in the Department of Justice, but throughout government when there's a turnover administration to ask for all the individuals.

Major? QUESTION: Sean, yesterday, John McCain said the president should either provide information about the allegation he put on Twitter on Saturday about his homes being tapped at Trump Tower or retract the statement. Today's the deadline, what's the president going to do?

[13:30:00] SPICER: Well, let's be clear, the Department of Justice was asked to put --