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Putin Meets with Tillerson Amid Strained Relations; Tillerson/Lavrov Press Conference. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 12, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: But as we wait for the secretary of state to come out, what I'm thinking about and remembering, it wasn't that long ago that the president's fellow Republicans were reluctant to confirm Rex Tillerson as secretary of state because they were concerned he was too cozy with Vladimir Putin and other Russian leaders. And that's because he did deals with them when he was CEO of Exxon. Now fast forward to not even 100 days into the administration, he's on his first trip to that very country meeting with the very leader, and it's almost like the notion that he's too close with the Russians is ancient history because of, as happens all the time with presidents, events that happen to them as opposed to events they tried to create or a relationship they tried to create. And I think, in some ways, it is very unclear what they are going to say and how they are going to spin the very deep divide over the chemical weapons and whether or not the Russians were behind it and so forth. If you take a look at the big picture, it is going to be fascinating to see how they relate to one another, given the backdrop of concern that he was too close with the Russians.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Christiane, the Russian foreign minister, Lavrov, he criticized the mixed messages coming from the United States on Syria. Lavrov said this -- and I'll read it to you -- he said, "I will be frank, that we had a lot of questions regarding a lot of very ambiguous as well as contradictory ideas coming from Washington."

Christiane, what do you make of that?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, let's take Sergei Lavrov at his word and say that he's puzzled by mixed messages. But let's also understand that Sergei Lavrov is one of the most accomplished diplomats in the world and knows exactly what their end is. The question for the United States is, what is the actual policy with Russia? Because this, to be frank, is over the Syria chemical attack and the strikes. But the real issue is that it is over the entire relationship between the United States and its Western allies and Russia itself. So if you look at what former CIA acting director, Mike Morell, wrote in "The New York Times," this requires, yes, the visit of Secretary of State Tillerson to Moscow. Yes, of course, he was going to get a meeting with President Putin, who held out of place for him in his schedule and finally said, yes, we'll do it.

And, yes, there will be a press conference. But the president himself, President Trump, is being advised by Mike Morell and others to actually make an address to the American people, spell out clearly what is in the U.S. national interest, what the U.S. will actually call, you know, what it will accept and where it's red lines, for lack of a better word, are in terms of provocation from Russia. And it is assumed right now, from people who know much better than I do, the relationship between Russia and the U.S., that Vladimir Putin is testing President Trump, like he's tested every leader so far. He wants to see how far he can push it. And until the president comes out and makes an absolute categoric statement on what is America's national interest, vis-a-vis Russia, then President Putin will have the opportunity to keep pulling the elastic band and moving it a little here and there, and keeping everybody, you know, sort of off balance, which he's very, very good at.

BLITZER: Seems to be very good at that, indeed.

Elise, despite all of these tensions, the rising tensions over Syria between the U.S. and Russia, a senior Trump administration official said, and I'm quoting now, "We don't want escalation." So how fine of a line is there between escalation and trying to maintain some sort of relationship?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a very fine line. And certainly, the strike last week, you know, the Russians see that as an escalation. And so I think when Secretary Tillerson is going to Moscow, he doesn't need to use his words. You've heard this week about the mixed messages. Nikki Haley, the ambassador to the U.N., is talking a lot tougher, and secretary Tillerson is being more nuanced because he wants to leave the room for Russia to walk in and try to act more cooperatively. He doesn't really need to use escalating words.

That strike he has in his pocket when he goes is a little bit more leverage than Secretary of State John Kerry had had all this time. And so it's -- a lot of the allies that think this was a credible use of American might. Because now you have U.S. diplomacy backed by force. And it's true, as Christiane said, I mean, it doesn't look like -- President Putin is playing with Tillerson certainly today. He's trying to test President Trump. But President Trump has said all through the campaign and continues to say, I'm not going to publicize what I do. I'm going to show what my red lines are when I act when someone violates them. And that's a smarter way of working with President Putin because it keeps them going. It keeps them on their toes. And I don't think they want to test President Trump in a way. They don't really know when he'll strike yet.

BLITZER: Hold on a second because we now wee the U.S. secretary of state and the Russian foreign minister heading over to the microphones. They'll sit down. I assume the Russian foreign minister will open with a statement.

LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I'd like to invite our guests to take their seats. Yes, there are places here. Come on in.

Good evening. This has been a long day.

We have had talks with the state secretary of the U.S., Rex Tillerson.

Right now, we have had a long conversation with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. It has lasted for more than two hours.

The negotiations have proved to be substantial and very frank. They have comprised the whole gamut of issues of importance to our bilateral relations as well as our interaction in the international arena.

We have taken note of the fact of the current state of our relations as well as the international situation (inaudible) and of the (inaudible). There are certain issues that have been (inaudible) instead of just being as time bombs (ph) from the previous administration, the Obama administration. We are being realistic and we do understand that in order to overcome these obstacles we have to make efforts, and we seek to do that.

We understand that our American counterpart's going to move towards (ph) us as well. And our president has confirmed our (inaudible) of that.

We see that attempt as preventing (ph) our cooperation, there (ph) even attempts escalating the confrontation. But we do not believe that this (inaudible).

We do understand that if Moscow and Washington cooperate, this is for the benefit not if just our nation, but also for the sake of the (inaudible) world.

We have reaffirmed that we both seek to side (ph) without any compromise international terrorism. This issue has been raised by our presidents in the course of their telephone conversation, including the telephone conversation on April the 4th in the night when President Trump called President Putin in order to express his condolences on the terrorist attack that has taken place in St. Petersburg.

In the context of fighting international terrorism, we have talked about Syria of course. We have touched upon the incident that took place after April the 4th when -- in the environs of Idlib in Syria. Chemical weapons were used. We have talked about the ensuing missile attack of the U.S. against the air base on April the 7th.

We have stated our position on many occasions. Today, we have said that there needs to be a very thorough investigation into this incident, which has become the subject of many speculations.

Russia has spoken in favor of drawing the attention of the OPCW (inaudible) to this incident, saying that the OPCW has all the necessary confidences and powers to look into this incident.

There's been an official letter by the Syrian government to the U.N. and to the OPCW with a request to dispatch as soon as possible a group of experts and others to conduct an unbiased and frank investigation in Idlib as well as at the airbase that was struck (inaudible).

(inaudible) the American counterpart's willingness to support such an investigation. We do hope that the powers the U.N. and the OPCW have (inaudible) resorted to as soon as possible. In this context, (inaudible) to be counterproductive to try to adopt a resolution at the U.N. Security Council which would be not dedicated to investigating the incident, but more legitimizing the accusations against Damascus.

We do have some arguments, but we're not trying to (inaudible) on anyone. We want there to be a frank investigation.

LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We have also talked about the state of affairs and the interaction of our airspace forces (ph), as well as the coalition headed by the U.S. in the context of the memorandum we have on preventing incidents, as well as ensuring the safety of air traffic over Syria.

As you know, we have suspended the memorandum, but to date the Russian president has reaffirmed that we're willing to put it back into force on condition that the (inaudible) force is going to be reaffirmed by both the American coalition and the Russian air space forces. That is the objective of (inaudible) as well as the associated terrorist organizations.

We assume as well that the publicly stated position of both Russia and the U.S. on (inaudible) no intention to interfere within the domestic affairs of Syria or any other state, are still in force, and we do hope that Iraq's example, as well as that of (inaudible) and other countries is going to be an admonition against trying to recreate the similar (inaudible) anywhere else, including in northern Africa.

Let me say once again, we are willing to achieve an absolute defeat of ISIS, as well as all the other terrorist (inaudible) common objective that is still in force, and we have seen this as being reaffirmed today as well. Apart from Syria and (inaudible) terrorism in the region, we also have another political challenge -- (inaudible) challenge that is to seek a political solution to the Syrian crisis the U.S. and Russia have been at the forefront of the recent years.

(inaudible) the national effort, I find these solutions (ph) as rallying (ph) for the (inaudible) both parties to the Syrian conflict and (inaudible) bringing them together at the negotiation table under the aegis of the U.S. Today, we agreed to continue to work bilaterally in order to facilitate this process, to push the multilateral (inaudible) forward.

We appreciate (inaudible) the Geneva process, which we are full- fledged members of, together with the American (inaudible). We also have the Astana platform (inaudible) represented as observers. Russia and the U.S. have other opportunities to help the international community settle the conflicts in Libya, Yemen, and last but not least, try to find common approaches to break the stalemate around the Israeli-Palestinian settlement. I do hope that our ongoing contacts to that end can be fruitful.

We also have another matter on our agenda, and that is Afghanistan. As you know, over the last two years, there have been different (inaudible) resorted (ph) to seeking the (inaudible) external support for the Afghan settlement. One of these attempts -- one of these avenues we pursue (inaudible) take place on (inaudible) and (inaudible). A meeting has been scheduled for the so-called Moscow (inaudible), which is going to be attended by Afghanistan, and neighbors including Central Asian republics. The American counterparts -- representatives are also being invited to this meeting which (inaudible) going to be able to participate in these meetings.

We have also touched upon the Ukrainian crisis. We have got a common approach to the Minsk agreements of 2015 are to be observed and respected. We have also (inaudible) how under the previous U.S. administration, a bilateral consultation channel had been (inaudible) between Moscow and Washington to supplement the (inaudible). And we have felt the interest of the current administration in resuming bilateral contacts, and this I mention so as to help find practical solutions to implementing the Minsk agreements to the full.

We are going to welcome these efforts. We are (inaudible) for them. We have also talked about the Korean Peninsula, which (inaudible) a concern for all of us.

LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Both Russia and the U.S. speak in favor of rigorous observance of the U.N. Security Council resolution (inaudible). We have also talked about how we can find a way out of the confrontation spiral (ph) which would allow us to create the necessary conditions for a negotiating process to settle the nuclear issue of the Korean Peninsula through diplomatic and political efforts.

It has been pointed out that Russia and the U.S. have a particular responsibility for the military and political security both at the regional and international levels. We have compared notes with regards to implementing the strategic stability treaty, such as the arms reduction treaties, which are in force between our countries. We have agreed to overcome sort of a pause (ph) that we have been witnessing in these processes while the White House team has changed. It's quite natural.

We do hope that our contacts on strategic stability and arms control are going to be resumed. They're going to be held in a business-like manner, pragmatically, with a view to observing rigorously the agreements we have reached.

We have touched upon our economic ties. We see that there is an interest among business (ph) circles on both sides to build up our cooperation, to buck (ph) the negative trend which we've been witnessing in trade and investment (inaudible) reasons.

We, for one, have promised to support the business initiatives on both sides. We'd like these efforts to get the support of the (inaudible) government and the U.S. administration.

There is another agreement. We have agreed to designate special envoys both from the State Department of the U.S. and the Russian Foreign Ministry. These envoys are going to have a pragmatic conversation about the irritants, so to speak, that have piled up in our relationship, under the Obama administration, primarily. I believe, should both sides demonstrate a pragmatic approach to this avenue, then it's going to yield results and will help improve our relations as well.

On the whole, I believe we all understand how difficult is the situation in our relations as well as in the world as a whole.

There are many who would like to give a try at using the current communication technologies and cyberspace and virtual reality. We know that there are people who abuse the opportunities presented by the modern technologies. They're trying to use these technologies to their advantage to pursue their goals, which are far from decent. But luckily, both in the U.S. and Russia, there are enough people who will be able to separate right from wrong and who will be guided by the fundamental interest, not the short-term interest, of both our people as well as the international community as a whole.

In brief, this is my takeaway from the negotiations that have taken place. Despite all the issues, both objective and artificially created, we still have many prospects for cooperation. Russia is willing to cooperate with the U.S., to be engaged in dialogue. Not just dialogue, but also common approaches and common actions (inaudible) pursue the interests of both countries.

We will look forward to the U.S. reciprocating our approach. And I do hope that the many hours that we've spent with Rex Tillerson, together as well as with the president of Russia, have not been spent in vain. We understand each other better after the talks today. We do hope that these contacts will be followed up by us as well as by our staff and by other government agencies of both the Russian government and the U.S. administration.

LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Thank you.

TILLERSON: Good evening.

We just came from a productive meeting, as you heard Foreign Minister Lavrov mention, of about two hours with President Putin.

We frankly discussed the current state of U.S.-Russia relations. I expressed the view that the current state of U.S.-Russia relations is at a low point. There is a low level of trust between our two countries. The world's two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship.

We further discussed approaches to improving our channels of communication. We had a lengthy exchange of views regarding the situation in Syria, and shared perspectives on possible ways forward.

Earlier today, Foreign Minister Lavrov and I had a lengthy conversation about issues that require immediate attention, and issues that require longer-term attention. We understand that improvement in the long-term relationship will be required if we are to make progress on issues where we have different views.

We spoke extensively about Syria, and in some areas we share a common view. Specifically, we both believe in a unified and stable Syria, and we agree we want to deny a safe haven for terrorists who want to attack both of our countries. We agree that North Korea has to be denuclearized. We agree there needs to be more senior-level communication between our two countries, both at a diplomatic and military level.

But there is a broad range of other issues on which we have differences. Some have global implications with long-term requirements. And others are understood to be bilateral. Over the course of the past two years, a number of reciprocal actions have been taken that demonstrate the dissatisfaction each country has with the other.

We need to attempt to put an end to this steady degradation, which is doing nothing to restore the trust between our two countries or to make progress on the issues of the greatest importance to both of us. We have agreed to establish a working group to address smaller issues and make progress towards stabilizing the relationship so that we can then address the more serious problems.

Foreign Minister Lavrov and I agreed we would consider further proposals made about the way forward in Syria, including consulting with our allies and coalition members. And we will continue discussions about how to find a solution to the Syrian conflict.

We also discussed current threats posed by North Korea's regime -- the regime's ongoing development of their nuclear program, and the constructive role Russia can play in encouraging the regime in North Korea to change its course so that we can create the conditions for talks regarding the future.

On Minsk, we considered the importance of the accord. Russia can make progress in implementation by deescalating violence and taking steps to withdraw separatist armed forces and heavy weapons so that OSCE observers can fulfill their role. Until full progress is made under the Minsk accords, the situation in Ukraine will remain an obstacle to improvement in relations between the U.S. and Russia.

I thank the foreign minister for a productive round of discussions, and I look forward to future conversations.

Thank you.

MODERATOR (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): (inaudible) down to questions. Russia 24 (ph), please.

QUESTION (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): (inaudible) from Washington (inaudible) as well as (inaudible) Mr. Hitler who said that Mr. Hitler never used the chemical weapons. Do you think the rhetoric can change? And is it helping the diplomacy or not?

Thank you.

TILLERSON: Well, I think the perspective from the United States, supported by the facts that we have, are conclusive, that the recent chemical weapons attack carried out in Syria was planned and it was directed and executed by Syrian regime forces. And we're quite confident of that.

This is just the latest in a series of the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime, and notwithstanding their use on more than 50 occasions of chlorine bombs, cluster bombs and other types of weapons that are intended to maim and kill in the most horrific ways.

TILLERSON: So I think the characterization is one that President Assad has brought upon himself.

MODERATOR: Josh Letterman (ph)?

LAVROV (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Well, I'd just like to add to what -- it is perfectly obvious that this subject is one where we diverge on, in as much as Russia is insisting on an objective investigation.

Together with the United States in 2014, were the initiators of the elimination of chemical weapons in Syria, and the record deadlines were enshrined in conventions which belong to the OPCW and the United Nations. And there are reports about chemical weapons here which record progress in eliminating all the stockpiles of chemicals, and which also record facts to the effect that some of these stockpiles are being controlled by extremists.

The process has not stopped in Damascus and we are putting as much pressure as possible on the Syrian government to cooperate in this respect. And we are committed to completing this work and we will go to the end, we will finish it off.

There is a mission to establish the facts by the OPCW, a joint mechanism between the OPCW and the U.N. And we have a number of questions with regard to those two bodies, because some of the communications which are going to the Syrian government are all pivoting (ph) on dissidents' information. And I don't want to completely discredit the White Helmets, but this is a problem. And also, the quality of testimony which exists with regards to the use of chemicals in the territory which is controlled by the opposition.

On numerous occasions the Syrian government and the Syrian servicemen have given us absolutely incontrovertible evidence about the use of chemical weapons. This was not some kind of dissidents' information but information from the sites (ph).

And I'd just like to say also, and I don't want to accuse anybody here or protect anyone, we insist on an objective investigation of what happened on the 4th of April.

Incidentally this actually coincided with the (inaudible) of a meeting in Brussels on the Syrian situation. And many participants in that meeting, in the afternoon, after the Idlib crisis, started very actively and loudly proclaiming that the entire conference should be (inaudible) only to this question, which should have been about the overall settlement of Syria.

[13:59:34]