Return to Transcripts main page
THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
Bill O'Reilly Out at FOX News; Deportation Controversy. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired April 19, 2017 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Yes, a very fair question.
And this is an important issue in part because President Trump was so clear during the campaign that he was going to tear up this deal on day one, it was the worst deal ever negotiated, and yet it's a deal in which the United States -- that the United States made.
And this sign -- I think the sign of -- the certification may be a sign that, on this issue, as on some others, President Trump is about to flip positions that he took during the campaign.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And, Jeff Mason, the other thing that's interesting, of course, is that since he took office, President Trump has been faced with -- some of them have been almost like ambush visits, the king of Jordan, the Saudis, coming in to say, hey, let me tell you how the world looks from our point of view.
Thus, you had the reversal on whether or not the U.S. Embassy should be in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. This is a deal that a lot of people in Congress don't like and obviously the Trump administration doesn't like, but it's a deal that was negotiated with many countries.
JEFF MASON, REUTERS: For sure. It was negotiated with a lot of U.S. allies, all of whom have an interest in that deal continuing and all of whom would be upset if the United States were to pull out or would try to pull out.
I think, to piggyback on what Susan said, it's also going to be interesting to see whether this will end up being on the list of things that he had a very strong position on during the campaign, but then after coming into office, understanding a little bit more about foreign policy and understanding a little bit more about what allies need, what the United States needs, if he decides, actually, let's hold on to it for a while.
TAPPER: And, of course, if the U.S. tears up the deal, then Iran will go back to its nuclear program and its nuclear ambitions, which, as Tillerson said, or has concluded, they have not violated that part of the agreement.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, I think this is a very tough nut to crack for President Trump, because, you know, it's not only such a delicate issue, exactly what you're saying is true.
But he's also getting a lot of pressure from people that are close to him, that were donors to him, that were close to his campaign, that supported him, precisely on this issue, people, you know, from the Jewish Coalition, people who are very important folks in the Republican Party, people like Sheldon Adelson, who we learned today was his biggest donor for the inauguration.
Those are folks for whom this issue is very important. This is one that he doesn't have that much wiggle room, but he's being faced with a reality of governing.
And if you would allow a point of personal privilege, I saw that Secretary Tillerson mentioned Venezuela at the end of that press conference. I think it's so important that this government speak up on that issue. People are getting beaten there. People are getting killed there.
NAVARRO: The Maduro regime is coming down hard, and the United States cannot remain silently complicit with what's happening in our own hemisphere.
TAPPER: It's a difficult story, one that has been difficult for a lot of reporters to cover because a lot of reporters are being denied visas. CNN Espanol was kicked out of the country.
Let's turn -- I don't cover media a lot on this show, but there's a huge story, in the sense that the biggest show on cable news, "The O'Reilly Factor," is canceled, and FOX News and 21st Century Fox have fired Bill O'Reilly in the wake of this "New York Times" story showing that $13 million had been paid out by O'Reilly or FOX to five different women for a number of complaints, most of them having to do with sexual harassment.
And, Susan, you were just saying we first became aware that there are accusations against Bill O'Reilly literally more than a decade ago in, in 2004, when Andrea Mackris brought a suit against him.
PAGE: So, this is a big media story. It's a big business story, but it's also a story about a shift in our culture, because it's now unacceptable for someone in this position of prominence to have all these allegations of sexual misconduct against him, and given some validity by the fact that millions of dollars have been paid to women who brought these accusations.
But you know what? A decade ago, it was apparently OK. It apparently was not disqualifying to have serious allegations of sexual misconduct. This tells us something about shifts in our broader culture, I think.
TAPPER: And one of the things that I think is interesting about both this case, Jeff Mason, and Roger Ailes being brought down by Gretchen Carlson, first of all, you have some very brave women coming forward at great risk, personal risk to their reputations and careers, and taking the stand.
Second of all, they have evidence, whether you saw with Andrea Mackris, who obviously recorded her conversations with Bill O'Reilly, to Gretchen Carlson, who I suspect hit record on her iPhone. Just a charge is one thing. Evidence is another.
MASON: Evidence is everything.
And no doubt that's a big part of why the Murdochs are deciding this is not something we want to use or have as a liability. And it must be a big decision for them, and they clearly made it because -- not only because of that evidence, but because they are trying to show -- give the signal that they really are committed to rooting this out at FOX.
TAPPER: And I have to say, I admit, I'm a little surprised, because O'Reilly makes so much money for the Murdochs, $100 million a year. The audience, I don't think, was necessarily going anywhere, even if the advertisers were.
Are you surprised?
NAVARRO: I'm surprised it took this long.
I'm glad that FOX News finally made this decision and took this step, but I'm not sure how much congratulations that are due after so many years and so many million dollars.
And I do agree with Susan. I think that there is a fundamental shift. Women are now seeing that, regardless of how rich, regardless of how powerful, regardless of how famous you are, if you do something sexual harassment, you can be brought down and you can pay the consequences.
We saw it with Roger Ailes. We saw it with Bill Cosby. And now we see it with Bill O'Reilly. And I think it sends very important messages, number one, to women, speak up, because even these men can be brought down.
And to these men, no matter who you are, it can catch up with you.
MASON: Interesting that President Trump also recently tweeted his support for Bill O'Reilly.
NAVARRO: On Sexual Awareness Month, no less.
MASON: Be interested to see how he reacts to this as well.
NAVARRO: Well, I think President Trump needs to learn that he doesn't have to comment on everything. He's president. He's not a commentator.
And when he gets asked about sexual harassment, if no other topic, that one, he should leave the hell alone.
TAPPER: All right, Ana Navarro, Susan Page, Jeff Mason, thanks, one and all. Appreciate it.
Did the government deport an undocumented immigrant with protected status? The Department of Homeland Security says one thing. The lawyer for the immigrant says another. And now the feds are changing the reason for their actions. Stay with us.
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
Sticking with politics, when it comes to deporting undocumented immigrants from this country, two messages have been very clear from President Trump. One, violent criminals are his main priority.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I said, at the beginning, we are going to get the bad ones, the really bad ones. We're getting them out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Two, that the president is torn when it comes to the status of the so-called dreamers. These are the children of undocumented immigrants who were brought to the U.S. illegally through no fault of their own and allowed to say under what is called DACA, or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to show great heart. DACA is a very, very difficult subject for me, I will tell you. To me, it's one of the most difficult subjects I have, because you have these incredible kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: All of that makes the following story all the more confusing.
Twenty-three-year-old Juan Manuel Montes Bojorquez was granted DACA status, but in February, he was deported by U.S. immigration officials. Montes Bojorquez, who has been convicted of shoplifting and driving without a license, claims he was not given any opportunity to prove that he was indeed allowed to stay.
Let's get right to CNN's Rosa Flores, who has been digging into this story.
And, Rosa, there's real disagreement between Montes Bojorquez and federal officials over his claims of his initial deportation.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right.
And at the center of this dispute is, was he deported by DHS initially, or did he leave the country, did he exit the country voluntarily, and by doing that he loses DACA status?
But here's the background, Jake. According to his attorneys, he was hailing a cab on February 18 when he was stopped by immigration officials. He was detained and then he was deported. Now, DHS says that that never happened.
And they released a statement saying in part: "There are no records or evidence to support Montes Bojorquez's claim that he was detained on February 18, 2017."
Now, here is what his attorneys are saying. "Juan Manuel has been unequivocal in his assertion that he never voluntarily left the country while he had DACA. We believe him. We filed a FOIA lawsuit to get answers."
Now, here's what these two parties do agree on. They agree that, on February 19, he was detained by immigration and then deported on February 20. So, why are we hearing about this now, about two months later, Jake?
Well, his attorneys are filing a federal lawsuit asking for the government to release his deportation processing documents, which they say that the government didn't give their client a copy of.
TAPPER: And, Rosa, he's been in the United States since I think he was 9 years old.
Was he protected under this protected status for dreamers, DACA, when he was deported on February 20?
FLORES: His attorneys say that he was and that he was deported without due process.
Now, DHS changed its story on this, initially saying that his DACA had expired in 2015, and then today saying that his DACA actually didn't expire until 2018, however, DHS saying that because he exited willfully, he lost his DACA protection, because, if you have DACA protection, you have to ask for permission before leaving the country.
TAPPER: And, Rosa, where is he now and what did he do in the U.S. before he was deported?
FLORES: You know, he's with family in Mexico, Jake, and his attorneys are keeping that location very close to the vest, saying that he doesn't want to talk to the media at this point, that his family is still a bit scared and almost, you know, shuffled by everything that's been going on because the deportation happened so fast.
Now, before that, we're told by his attorneys that he worked in the fields to pay for his college education. He's hoping to be a welder, and so that that is what he's hoping to come back to. He's hoping to come back to the place he calls home.
TAPPER: All right, Rosa Flores, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
An exciting programming announcement now, tomorrow, on CNN, a one-of- a-kind musical journey, "Soundtracks: Songs That Defined History."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Music is an explosive expression of humanity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every moment has to have a song.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you.
DWAYNE JOHNSON, AMERICAN PRODUCER, ACTOR, SINGER, AND PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: The music will always remind us that it's possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One small step for man.
RANDY JACKSON, AMERICAN MUSICIAN: That is what anthems are made of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about standing up for your rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were killing our own children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell are we going to do that for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a cultural political statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Music is a vehicle for revolution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That kind of courage changed how I view human beings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the aftermath of 9/11 everybody was (INAUDIBLE) together.
JACKSON: Somebody's got to put this into words and emotions for everyone to hear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is how we remember history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soundtracks, Songs That Define History. Premiers tomorrow at 10:00 on CNN.
[16:50:00] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD, I'm Jake Tapper, the "NATIONAL LEAD" now. Police in Fresno, California are calling a man shooting spree that left three men dead a hate crime and they are saying it is not an act of terrorism. Despite his words after yesterday's killings, officers say that are Kori Ali Muhammad yelled out "Allahu Akbar" which roughly translates as "god is the greatest" in the back of their patrol car which of course did raise questions about a possible terrorist motive. They say the man fired 16 rounds of ammunition in fewer than two minutes. The African-American suspect methodically killing three white men, though he spared the lives of other victims, including a mother and child. CNN's Sara Sidner joins me now live from Fresno. Sara, police just wrapped up a news conference. Why are they saying this man is not a terrorist? SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Police Chief very strong in his words saying that Kori Muhammad is not a terrorist but that he is a racist who wanted to kill as many white men as he possibly could. And the reason why they're saying that is because he says his detectives had a very long conversation with Kori Muhammad. They even had him go out to the scene. Muhammad agreeing to go to each shooting scene and talk about what exactly he did according to the Police Chief. Also saying that he was very callous, that he was laughing during some of that as he's describing this horrific scene which is all over a section of Fresno. He talked about what he did on Thursday killing Carl Williams who was a security guard saying he was disrespected by Williams and that's why he shot and killed him, and then he talked about some of the other victims, and we now know all of their names. We're talking about Zackery Randall and David Jackson and Mark Gassett. And Mark Gassett, we were able to talk to his mother and family who came out to catholic charities where they did not know that Gassett had come in to get some food. But they did want to make this point, that he was not homeless and that he is survived by two beautiful young children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
He was amazing, like, he's a very loving and very caring. Text me every morning, good morning mama, I love you. Called me all the time, making sure that, you know, I was OK or whatever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Here's another important point. Police were able to get to Kori Muhammad quickly because of technology called ShotSpotter. They could hear the sounds of shots, 18 they say in total from this particular device and were able to get right to the area. He did surrender, but they are still looking for the gun, Jake. And they have just given new information that another person, they think it's a Hispanic male is caught on video, going towards Kori Muhammad before police got to him, having some sort of conversation while he's holding some kind of food, puts it down, picks up his gun and then runs away with it. They say some of that is on video, they're trying to get a better description of the suspect, but they are begging that suspect to come and turn himself in and bring the gun along with him. The families are mourning, this community mourning. There are people who been coming out to catholic charities all day and putting flowers and candles, saying that they are really, really sad and terrified about what happened here and in other parts of Fresno. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Sara Sidner in Fresno, California with that horrible story. Thank you so much, appreciate it. Our "BURIED LEAD", today. That's what we call stories we don't think are getting enough attention. The U.S. Navy and Marines today issued new regulations that officially forbid non-consensual sharing of nude or intimate photos enforceable by a military court. This comes, of course, after current and former marines shared often lewd photos of fellow service members online without permission. Today is also the deadline for every single U.S. Marine to sign a new social media policy that brings the punishment for online sexual harassment in line with all other forms of sexual harassment. Let's get to CNN's Alison Kosik to bring us more on this story. And Alison, you spoke with a few female marines who seems to find it a little disingenuous that leaders of the military are expressing shock when they found out about the scandal.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, when the Marine Corps' top general Bob Neller testified before a Senate Committee in March, he asked female Marines to trust the leadership, will correct the problem but many Marine women who I've been talking with, including three you're about to hear from, are skeptical the Corps will change. What the women say is a misogynistic culture in the marines because they say when they reported it years ago to high- ranking officers they were ignored.
LIZ, FORMER U.S. MARINE: It was a hard drive full of pictures of servicewomen like naked and, you know, kind of like promiscuous positions and stuff like that.
[16:55:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My picture was - I would say it was harmless, but the way it was taken was very like creepy and disturbing.
ELIZABETH FITZGERALD, FORMER U.S. MARINE: Some of the captions that I remember reading had just said, you know, "oh, I would (BLEEP) the marine on the left but not the one on right.
KOSIK: Three different marine women all with a common thread. Their pictures along with thousands of others, turned up on private Facebook groups like marines united captioned with degrading and sexually violent comments. All say they reported it years ago but were either blamed or rebuffed.
LIZ: I don't feel ashamed of - like - of sending that picture to this person who I had loved so much, who I share a daughter with, but to see my picture out like that and all these judging eyes, you know, looking at my picture, it's like, look at her, like she's probably a whore, a slut, whatever, like shaming me for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them is unacceptable.
KOSIK: Liz served in the Marines for ten years. During her 2010 deployment in Afghanistan, she found out her then marine boyfriend circulated a nude photo of her.
LIZ: My supervisor could tell that I was really - like, I mean, I was on the verge of tears but he told me that if I go forward to report this that I would get in trouble because it would be - I would be seen as a distributor of pornography.
KOSIK: Even harmless pictures in uniform weren't off limits. Elizabeth Fitzgerald who spent six years in the Marines had this picture taken of her and her team after they finished a training event in 2013. Fitzgerald was so proud she put it on her private Facebook page. Within 24 hours it had made its way to one of Facebook's private group pages and the comments poured in.
FITZGERALD: Talking about, you know, who they would rather sleep within the photo, that female Marines were a joke. It was an awful feeling to be publicly humiliated by people that, you know, we served with by other Marines that were supposed to be, you know, our brothers in arms.
KOSIK: She didn't even have a chance to report it before being called in by her female superiors.
FITZGERALD: We were told that it was our fault, that we shouldn't have taken the photo, it should have never been on social media and, you know, basically that because we took the photo this is what we get.
KOSIK: Mary currently serving in the marines for 11 years is a frayed about the backlash for speaking out and asked to have her name and identity hidden. Unbeknownst to her, a Marine took a picture of her in uniform from behind at a shooting range.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That picture that posted on Facebook, and it got blasted with comments.
KOSIK: Comments about her appearance and that she was flirting with other Marines. Mary figured out who took the picture and reported him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me there's nothing they could do about it because he wasn't a part of our unit.
KOSIK: Leaving Mary to worry how it would affect her career.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unfortunately, females in the Marine Corps have a harder time maintaining their reputation, even if they have a clean record.
KOSIK: All of these women believe the top brass in the Marines have been aware of the problem of lewd pictures and off-color comments for a long time but turned a blind eye.
ROBERT NELLER, U.S. MARINE CORPS GENERAL: I'm not going to sit here and duck around this thing.
KOSIK: Now it's become so explosive, the Marine's top General told a Congressional Committee, this time it's got to be different.
NELLER: What is it going to take for you to accept these Marines as Marines? I'm committed to making this right, and I need all marines equally committed.
KOSIK: A marine spokesman says the Marines involved in the inappropriate behavior don't stand for their core values. He did acknowledge however that in the past, the Marine Corps has not addressed the problem as it should have and didn't take the necessary action to get a handle on it, but he says now things will change. The Marines have also put together a task force to investigate the scandal, and it will look into the bigger cultural forces that are at play in the Marines, but the women are still questioning if all of this is going to be enough because even as this new policy has been rolled out over the past month, Jake, Mary once again told her story to her superior. His reply, "oh, well, good story."
TAPPER: And Alison, what can you tell us about the status of any of the disciplinary actions that have been taken in the wake of the story about these photographs being posted?
KOSIK: So NCIS continues to investigate to try to find out who really is responsible for a lot of these postings, you know, on these private Facebook pages. As I said, there is a task force set up. The result of that task force expected to be presented sometime in June. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Alison Kosik, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
TAPPER: One programming new next week. We're going to mark President Trump's first 100 days in office with a special primetime edition of THE LEAD in addition to our regular 4:00 p.m. time. We'll also be on at 9:00 p.m. Eastern starting Monday. We hope you'll join us. That's it for THE LEAD, I'm Jake Tapper, turning you over to Wolf Blitzer right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM". Thanks for watching.