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Sean Spicer Resigns; Reaction to Spicer's Resignation; White House Briefing after Resignation; Former Communications Director on Spicer Resignation. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment.

We begin with breaking news. White House officials confirming Press Secretary Sean Spicer resigned. This resignation was sudden and sources inside the White House say staffers are shocked by the news.

Spicer's resignation coming as President Trump announces he's hired Anthony Scaramucci as the new White House communications director. Scaramucci has been a loyal supporter of President Trump, serving on his campaign as well as his transition team.

I want to go straight to the White House now. There is going to be an on-camera briefing there in the next hour. This is where we find CNN White House Correspondent Sara Murray live for us.

Sara, tell us what you're hearing about what led up to this resignation.

SARA MURRAY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, this has been a whirlwind. You know, we reported last night that President Trump was seriously considering offering Anthony Scaramucci, someone who worked on his transition and who came from New York and knows the president well, this job as White House communications director.

Now, we are told the president was considering this without his chief of staff, Reince Priebus, knowing, without Steve Bannon, his chief strategist, realizing how close he was to this decision, without Sean Spicer, his White House press secretary realizing that the president had essentially made up his mind.

So, today, President Trump met with Anthony Scaramucci here at the White House. He officially offered him the job. Scaramucci accepted.

And we're told that after that, that is when Sean Spicer decided to tender his resignation, essentially in protest. He was opposed to offering Scaramucci this job.

And point out the fact Scaramucci doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience when it comes to the communication strategy side of things. Obviously, we've seen Scaramucci a lot on television defending the president, but not so much in this strategic role.

Apparently, this was a bridge too far for Sean Spicer, who decided to tender his resignation.

Now, we're told that when Reince Priebus did introduce Scaramucci to the staff and say, this is going to be the new communications director, Sean was in the room. He was upset but he was gracious, while these introductions were made and while they were essentially handing off the oversight of the press shop over to Anthony Scaramucci.

So, this is a very interesting moment, not for just what is going to happen to the communication shop, but what this means for all these other relationships in the west wing.

The fact President Trump decided to tap Anthony Scaramucci, someone his kids were happy to see in the job. Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, they were pro-Scaramucci taking this roll, right, as communications director.

Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, those folks, not so much. Now, Priebus has put out a statement today essentially saying, I 100 percent support this move. I've known Anthony Scaramucci for a long time. I'm behind him. This is all good.

It'll be interesting to see how that actually does play out in the White House, because the relationship is a little bit more fraught than the White House chief of staff is letting on today -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Sara Murray with the very latest there at the White House, where you can see, looking into that briefing room, it is an incredibly hectic day with this breaking news.

I want to talk about this now with our panel. We're going to discuss this more. We have CNN Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash. We have CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, CNN Politics Reporter and Editor-at-Large Chris Cillizza and the president of the White House Correspondents' Association Jeff Mason joining us as well.

We also have CNN Senior Media Correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter.

We have everybody, in short, to talk about this. OK. So, this -- there have been so many times, Dana, where there has been speculation about whether Sean Spicer is going to be fired or whether he's going to resign. This does come as a surprise to us today, but talk of this happening has been consistent.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Questions, I think, about whether this is going to happen and when. What is the final straw? That's been the question.

Is it being a very ardent and staunch catholic and not being invited to meet the pope when you're sitting there in the Vatican or maybe in your hotel room while the president and the team are doing that? Being sent out with information that was not accurate? Being, sort of, you know, forced to say something that wasn't accurate, like day one or even pre-day one. Inauguration day, about the crowd sizes and the list goes on and on and on.

And the reason is because that we all, those of us who have covered Sean and known Sean for so many years in his work for traditional Republicans, said, you know, this isn't you. How are you going to do this? How are you going to -- and his answer was always, I'm loyal to this president. This is my job. I'm going to do it. The fact that this was the straw is interesting.

And I think -- so, I think that there's so many ways to look at this. And because you asked about Sean, that's one way.

But another way is also what this says, maybe much more importantly about the president of the United States, and how he has learned from the first six months about the way he wants to craft his White House. With people who are loyal to him. People who are -- who know him. People who are New Yorkers and are much more fluent in the language of Trump than in the ways of Washington.

[13:05:13] KEILAR: And we're going to talk much more about that.

I do want to bring in, though, on the phone. We have Jen Palmieri, who was White House comms director for President Obama. And, of course, you will know her from the Hillary Clinton campaign where she also served as the chief of communications there.

Jen, thanks for joining us. Give us your reaction to this.

All right. Can -- Jen, can you hear me? All right. We're going to try to work out the connection with Jen Palmieri, and we'll bring her in as soon as we have her.

This is the question that I have and that so many people, Gloria, that I have been texting with or asking. As Sara Murray said, this was a bridge too far. And everyone that I'm chatting with is saying, this was the bridge too far?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

KEILAR: I think Dana highlighted it, being forced to lie about things. We're very busy here as you can see. Taking source calls in the middle of the segment. Being forced to lie about things. Being misled in a way that he ends up unknowingly lying as well and just is embarrassed.

All of this, just the back channeling against him. Why is it this that was the bridge too far?

BORGER: Well, you know, that's a really good question and it's obviously hard to know. We have to ask Sean about that. I mean, there are lots of times people were asking that question. How long can Sean do this? How long can he stay?

It is -- it is clear to me, from talking to a bunch of people and also, you know, from a source who's close to the president this morning, who said to me, look, I don't blame Sean for leaving right now. This was a slap in the -- a slap in the face to him.

But to your other point, this does tells you a -- does tell you lot about the president of the United States. And what it -- what it tells you is that Scaramucci was ultimately loyal to him in every way, shape or form and that he values that.

And that during the campaign he was promised a lot of jobs, I was told. And, up until very recently, promised a lot of jobs. Did jump through all kinds of hoops to get these jobs and they never came through.

And I think there was a sense, on the part of the president and some of those around him, including, perhaps, his children, that Scaramucci, you know, should get a shot at this job.

And this was clearly a job that Sean thought he ought to have and had been, in fact, probably doing in the interim and that has been doing.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: That's right. And in May. And then, suddenly, you know, this job is going to Scaramucci. And I'm sure Sean believes that he's not the right guy for the job.

KEILAR: And he'd been -- we were seeing him sidelined as the spokesman. And so, then, he's getting squeezed from the more strategic side, being squeezed out by Scaramucci in this.

I want to bring back Jen Palmieri. I think we have her with us now on the phone. Jen, can you hear me? Oh, it is not meant to be today. All right, well, we're going to keep -- we're going to keep trying. Maybe third time will be a charm here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

KEILAR: Right, I know. Maybe she needs to find a better reception spot. OK, Chris, your thoughts on this?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Fights and slights. I mean, that's the story of Sean Spicer over six months, fights with the press, slights from the president, right?

This is a very difficult job for anyone, I mean being the press secretary for the White House. It is an even more difficult job if you are the press secretary for Donald Trump, because Donald Trump views himself as his best press secretary, chief strategist, pollster, probably his best everything.

From the start, Dana mentioned this, Sean is someone who if you spent any time in Washington, you knew he's been around campaigns for a long time. He's been around the Republican National Committee for a long time.

Folks I talk to who were friends of his, when he got this job initially said, I don't know. He's always been -- I wrote a piece that I don't think is published yet. KEILAR: But that they were worried if he could do it or they worried how they would come out of this?

CILLIZZA: Yes, because he's always been a bulldog. No, both. Worried he could do it. Worried how he'd come out of it. He's always had the reputation of a bulldog. A guy who you say, go over there and get that person and he did that way, in the context of campaigns, especially.

This job is not that. And I think he struggled, as anyone would, to balance you are -- and Jeff can speak to this more so. But you are -- your boss is the president of the United States. Period.

But you're also beholden to a White House press corps that has asks, has demands, has ways in which they want to interact with you.

From the start, January 21st, a Saturday, the day after Donald Trump became president, Sean Spicer opened with a lecture of the media as to what they were covering and why, all about, Dana mentioned this, inauguration size which proved a couple things. One, he was going to be a Trump guy.

[13:10:04] KEILAR: He told the media right away he was willing --

CILLIZZA: A Trump guy 100 percent.

KEILAR: -- he was willing to basically state a lie from the podium.

CILLIZZA: And willing to say whatever to make Donald Trump happy.

KEILAR: We felt that -- we felt that the audience, at that time was Donald Trump. That is wasn't really the press that he was before. I want to talk about that but tell us, as we're looking at these live pictures coming to us from the Brady Briefing Room at the White House.

All of these reporters are gathered there. What are they doing?

JEFF MASON, PRESIDENT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS' ASSOCIATION: Well, they're probably trying to go back into lower press which is the area right behind that door.

KEILAR: Behind that door they're gathered outside of.

MASON: Exactly. Where other White House spokespeople and deputy spokespeople sit. Or go through that door and then to the left which takes you up towards -- in the direction of the Oval Office and in the area that we call upper press. And that's where Sean has his office or where the press secretary has his or her office.

KEILAR: Is this door locked that they're standing -- because normally it's open, right? Or at least --

MASON: Normally, it's open.

KEILAR: -- it was during the Obama administration. Is it in the Trump administration? MASON: It is normally open, although there are times where they cut

the press off if there's something going on that they don't want people to come back for. Sometimes if there's a presidential movement or if they just don't want the throng of reporters all steep back there.

KEILAR: OK. So, as we have watched -- and I want to get to Brian Stelter here in just a moment. As we've watched Sean Spicer over these months, the audience was the president. Right? As much or maybe, perhaps, more than it was the reporters that he was sparring with in the briefing room.

MASON: He has been absolutely 100 percent loyal to President Trump. Whether or not that is a decision he will be happy with now that he leaves the White House is something only Sean can talk about.

But during his time as press secretary, in his interactions with us at the Correspondents Association, with reporters generally from the podium, he has been the number one advocate for President Trump.

CILLIZZA: Which is somewhat interesting only because he's not a Trump guy, per se. Again, this is --

KEILAR: No.

CILLIZZA: -- this is someone who's been around Washington --

KEILAR: This is the person during the election who, obviously, is working for the RNC and is part of the real establishment Republican wing.

MASON: But he wanted that job.

CILLIZZA: He did.

MASON: He wanted that job, yes.

CILLIZZA: And Reince Priebus advocated for him to have the job and it was seen as seeing Trump as bringing in the outsiders.

Now, I can't remember, either Gloria or Dana or both of them mentioned this but it's important. Spicer matters for Spicer but he also matters symbolically. This is Donald Trump bringing in friends, people who are close to him and close to his family.

KEILAR: I want to -- I want to get in Brian Stelter joining us from New York. You have some new reporting. What can you tell us?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It turns out our colleague, Michael Smerconish, might have been the last person to meet with Spicer before all this went down. He just told me, he was in Spicer's office between 9:00 and 9:45 this morning.

And according to Smerconish, there was nothing of his mannerisms that would have told you, this was a guy that was about to quit his job. So, maybe Spicer was thinking about this for a while but it, perhaps, erupted very quickly this morning.

And just to give us a sense of how much the White House is in crisis here, how much dysfunction. You've got to go back to the year 2000 to find the last time a press secretary resigned after only six months. That was the end of the Clinton administration so that person had to leave and let the Bushes come in.

But, normally, these press secretaries stay for a couple of years. Robert Gibbs, the first Obama press secretary, stayed for two years.

And, guys, I think this is a symptom of a much larger disease. Spicer's struggles are the symptoms of a bigger disease, and that is the president's confusing, contradictory, dishonest, ultimately self- defeating messaging. We'll see if Anthony Scaramucci can change that.

KEILAR: Dana, so that -- Michael Smerconish talking to Sean Spicer and saying, this doesn't seem like a guy who was going to quit his job. So, what does that tell us how out of the loop Spicer might have been when it came to this announcement?

BASH: He -- my understanding, and I talked to a source close to Sean who said that Sean was very well aware, as of last night, that this was a very real possibility.

And, you know, he didn't -- my sense is that he's worked for Donald Trump long enough to know that it wasn't real until was actually happening, because he's heard stories of his demise many times before or about White House shake-ups, whatever you want to call this.

So, as of last night, he understood that Scaramucci would be brought in as communications director, that that was a very real possibility, and that he didn't yet know how he was going to react real time and whether he was going to quit.

And, clearly, when it was presented to him as fact in the data comply (ph), he decided, I'm out.

KEILAR: I want to -- I want to listen to some of what have become rather memorable moments from Sean Spicer during his time as press secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, U.S. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was the largest audience to ever witness and inauguration, period. Both in person and around the globe.

When we use words like travel ban, that misrepresents what it is.

I've said it from the day that I got here until whatever that there is no connection. You've got Russia. If the president puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection.

But every single person -- no. Well, no, that's -- I appreciate your agenda here. But the reality is -- oh, no, no, hold on. No, at some point report the facts.

[13:15:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sean, are you going to (INAUDIBLE) --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Sean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Sean.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sean.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sean. Come on, Sean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so those were -- I mean those were pretty astounding moments that you don't normally see with a press secretary. You covered President Bush's White House, the second President Bush. You covered President Obama's White House. When you look at those moments, just from the last six months, I mean what do you think with some institutional knowledge that you have about what is normal?

JEFF MASON, PRESIDENT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS' ASSOCIATION: It's been a very, shall we say, tempestuous tenure. And that has shown from the podium. It has shown behind the scenes. It's been tricky. And I think that the relationship between the White House and the press corps is largely set by the press secretary and the press secretary's staff.

And we've worked, the Correspondents Association, which I'm about to leave as the president next week, has worked really hard on that relationship. It hasn't always been successful. We certainly haven't always agreed on a lot of things. It's been tricky.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And, you know, you -- did you say the word "normal"? Maybe you said the word normal.

KEILAR: I said normal.

BASH: OK. But that's an important word.

KEILAR: Yes.

BASH: Because the definition of "normal," Washington standard normal, press secretaries, press briefing, press corps, the interaction, the strategy of communications, this has been underscored to me by people who are close to the president and close to all these players again this morning. What we have learned, and it was obvious watching it unfold in the last six months, but now especially in retrospect, and at this moment is -- that is gone. That was never really going to work with Donald Trump in the White House.

But now we know that he kind -- he tried. He tried to sort of twist himself into the Washington -- the Washington ways. I mean the most traditional, the most basic level of how communication strategy works. But it's not who he is, which is why, at the end of the day, he is his communications director. He does it. End of story. And he wants a guy who gets how he thinks, who's been loyal, who's a killer on TV, to come in and be that guy and strategizing on communications is never going to work for a guy who maybe is self-aware enough to know that he changes that with a single tweet.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and I just heard from a source who said, look, this is all Trump's call. And Trump was the one who stopped Scaramucci from coming in, in the first place.

KEILAR: Initially.

BORGER: And now he wants him in. And the question that I have, and that I've been talking to people about is, how does this affect the balance of power inside the White House? What does this do to Reince Priebus? You know, he and Reince Priebus have not been close and he blames Reince Priebus for, as Dana reported, for stopping him from getting another job as special advisers. They were going to move him into the White House. That did not occur. Will he --

KEILAR: Impending (ph) drama, is that --

BORGER: How will that -- well, you know, how will that -- how will that -- how will that play out? And, you know, the truth of the matter is, as Dana is pointing out, is that everything now seems to be up in the air. People have to figure out a way to deal with each other in these relationships that start out very fragile because there is history. There is history here.

BASH: Can I just add one thing?

I was told by a source very close to Scaramucci that he, you know, even though he does feel that Reince blocked him for being in the White House for the first six months, he doesn't hold grudges. He doesn't want to be chief of staff. He wants to do the kind of thing that Trump is bringing him in to do. So he will probably try to make nice with Reince Priebus, clearly giving us an on the record -- giving an on the record quote saying that he's fine with this, wants to make nice with Scaramucci.

BORGER: Right, it's in their self-interests to do that.

BASH: Right.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Abut the other -- the other point too is that Donald Trump, at some level, likes the clash of advisers. He's set a system up where there were four people, Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, Jared Kushner and Kellyanne Conway, who were going to clash with one another. Who had different views. He plays them off of one another. That's what he does. So the fact that they don't necessarily -- they haven't always gotten along is less disqualifying in this White House than others.

Can I make one other very quick point?

KEILAR: Yes. We're going to -- we're going to be back for more. And Jeff has to run because he has to get to this briefing.

CILLIZZA: Well, Jeff -- yes.

KEILAR: So I want to give you, Jeff Mason, the outgoing president of the White House Correspondents Association, the final word here. Chris will get the first one in --

MASON: Well, I know that the next four that starts next week will want to work with the incoming communications director and whoever becomes the press secretary as well. But it will be interesting to watch just to sort of sum up what we've been saying here. Also what the other implications are of this move for the rest of the press team, that reporters rely on every day for getting their information at the White House.

KEILAR: All right, all of you hold tight for me. When we come back, we're going to have much more on our breaking news, the resignation of White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:23:40] KEILAR: All right, we are keeping our eye there on the Briefing Room at the White House because the press briefing is scheduled to begin momentarily, the first since Sean Spicer resigned here just really a short time ago.

And I'm going to bring in now Democratic Senator Chris van Hollen of Maryland.

Sir, what is your reaction to this breaking news?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Well, Brianna, it's impossible being the press secretary or the communications director in this administration because the chaos starts at the very top. It starts with the president. A president who tweets out stuff that pops into his mind. The president that invites reporters into the White House and -- at a time when we're discussing health care, talks to "The New York Times" about, you know, putting pressure on Mueller to drop his investigation, goes after his own attorney general.

This is a president that cannot stick to the issues that the American public cares most about, which is health care, the economy, and those issues. I mean we were going to be talking about health care, something else, and this is a perfect example of the chaos at the White House taking attention off of things that are important to the country.

KEILAR: Do you think this is just the usual chaos or does this, to you, signify something different about the environment right now inside the West Wing?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, clearly there's not only a chaotic involvement but there seems to be a whole lot of in-fighting because a lot of people strongly objected to this appointment. That only compounds sort of the natural chaotic DNA of this administration because we know week to week, when people want to focus on one thing, all of a sudden, you know, they're over the rails talking about something else.

[13:25:24] So -- look, in the -- in the Senate, we're supposedly going to be taking up this health care proposal. All of them have been rotten so far. The president, you know, begged the senators to get on with that bill, and here we are where he's again changing message, changing focus away from things the public cares about. So this seems to be something that is very much a part of this president, a part of this administration. But I would say this latest development has exposed in-fighting even more than before.

KEILAR: Do you think that as we see a new communications director come in, that that could spell something different for the White House, or are you just expecting some more of the same since Scaramucci is such a loyalist to the president?

VAN HOLLEN: It's hard to see anything different. Again, because you've got a president of the United States who, at all hours of the day or night, just tweets out whatever pops into his head and seems to be really obsessed with the Russia investigation, right? We've got all of these big issues that we're looking at as a country, whether it's the health care issue or the economy. But he seems very obsessed with Robert Mueller and the FBI investigation, which I think is leading a lot of people to ask, you know, what is it that they are trying to hide here? Why is he so determined to sabotage that investigation rather than come clean? And as long as that's the top of mind for the president, then it's going to be really hard for the administration to move on. They should just cooperate with the investigation, come clean and focus on issues that are important to the country.

KEILAR: All right, Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for joining us with this breaking news.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

KEILAR: I know we were going to talk about something different, but here we are with this story really just dominating our discussion.

And we're standing by right now for the first White House briefing since the announcement of Sean Spicer's resignation. We're going to, of course, bring that to you live when it happens.

I want to get now to CNN White House reporter Kaitlan Collins. He's going to join us right now.

Tell us what we are expecting from this briefing, Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Brianna, we are expecting a briefing to happen here any minute. It will be the first on-camera briefing at the White House in several weeks. So there's a little bit of irony that the day the press secretary steps down from his position, we will finally see Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary, on-camera today.

As you know, Sean Spicer quit earlier after it was announced that Anthony Scaramucci would be joining the team as the communications director. We're told that though other communications staffers knew last night that Scaramucci was going to be tapped by the president this morning, that Sean Spicer, Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon were largely left in the dark for this decision and did not know.

We're told that though Sean Spicer is upset, he was there in his office as Reince Priebus welcomed Scaramucci and introduced him to the rest of the communications team with a round of applause.

KEILAR: OK, and just -- we're looking there at live pictures there of reporters in the room, in the Briefing Room there, Kaitlan. Not unusual for them to be sort of milling about as they wait for this briefing. But they've been really trying to get answers and it seems like the door there to the lower press office is closed at this hour, right, as they get their ducks in a row for the briefing?

COLLINS: Yes, it's been a mad house here ever since because there were so many reporters standing outside of Sean Spicer's office in light of the Scaramucci announcement to ask questions about that, and that was when Sean Spicer came out, shut his door and a few reporters who were standing there, and that was when the news broke that he had resigned.

So it's been kind of crazy. They -- you -- reporters can typically stand up there in that upper hallway, right outside of the upper White House communications staffers' offices, but they've all been pushed downstairs as they sort out their messages for the briefing today at 2:00.

KEILAR: Wow, it is quite a scene. All right, stand by for us, Kaitlan, there in the Briefing Room as we await this briefing. We're going to bring that to you live here on CNN.

And we have some news, of course, that the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, has resigned. This is what is sending shockwaves through the White House there. And you're seeing live pictures.

Let's get some perspective now.

Joining me on the phone is former White House communications director for President Obama, also communications director on the Hillary Clinton campaign, Jennifer Palmieri, with me now.

Jen, you've been following this breaking news. What's your reaction?

JENNIFER PALMIERI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA (via telephone): I guess I have two thoughts. One is, with Sean, you know, I know him a little bit. I would see him at the base. He seems like a nice person and, you know, I -- I think he probably should have resigned on day one when he was first asked to do the -- to go out with the fake news about the president's inaugural crowd, and everybody (ph) tweeted as much (ph), no job is worth that.

[13:30:09] But I'm glad, you know, I am glad that he has -- he has left now that