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Sean Spicer Resigns Shortly After Trump Names Anthony Scaramucci as Communications Director; Trump Legal Team Spokesman Corallo Resigned Last Night; Awaiting White House Briefing with Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 21, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] JEN PALMIERI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR (via telephone): -- when he was first asked to do the -- to go out with the fake news about the president's inaugural crowd, and I tweeted that, no job is worth that. But I'm glad -- you know, I am glad he has -- he has left now. A lot of people questioned whether he stayed in the White House. But I can understand why they would want to do that. In terms of Anthony Scaramucci taking over White House communications director. You know, there's a -- I think people who have had has job, we all tried to support each other. When I had that job, President Bush's communications director was very supportive and helpful to me. There's a rhythm to a White House regardless of the party in there and we try to support each other.

But I'm not sure that -- and to Scaramucci, I know a little bit but my impression is, he's not going to do the job with the idea that your job is to help the president of the United States communicate with the American public. That's a very important responsibility. That's not about spin or putting or saying I want to even convey the president's message if a positive light, although it's part of the job. The fundamental responsibility you have is making sure that the president of the United States is appropriately communicating with the American people, which is a big part of his job. From what I have seen of how Anthony Scaramucci performs, he'll be, you know, on television and affective, if you consider, you know, just being a very aggressive sort of attack dog affective. But I don't suspect he'll do -- you know, we'll see. I don't expect he'll do the part of the job I would do. And about actually trying to plan, communications -- you know, advantages of the team and communicating what the president was trying -- his agenda and what he's trying to speak to.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: To that point, Dan Pfeiffer, former senior adviser to President Obama, he preceded you as communications director?

PALMIERI: Yes.

KEILAR: Is that right? So he preceded you as communications director. He tweeted saying, I have a particular bias. White House communications director is a much harder and complicated job than campaign surrogate."

You were talking a little bit about that. Certainly, being a member of an administration, Jen, there's an element of loyalty. Right? But sometimes it -- that loyalty comes in the form of maybe some constructive criticism.

(CROSSTALK)

#: You know what I'm saying here? This idea that you --

(CROSSTALK)

PALMIERI: I do.

KEILAR: And -- it does seem like this president values loyalty a lot. To be effective, is there a way -- essentially, is this kind of being shuffled where Scaramucci might be the face but there may be someone else kind of helping out with the job that traditionally you had?

PALMIERI: Right. Doing the actual work of, you know, creating the communications by the administration. I don't know. This administration doesn't seem to worry too much about communication planning. I expect Anthony Scaramucci will end up on television and the network will have to decide how to handle that if he just goes on and lies a bunch. It's a difficult job because you are caught between the press and the president that you serve. Ed -- the attendance at -- you get the rap when a bad story comes out. Jennifer, looks like a big press problem just because the press is covering -- something wasn't going well. That doesn't make it a press problem, but not every politician and certainly President Trump is not equipped so to speak, to accept that just because a story, a bad story appears in the press doesn't mean that it's the fault of the communications staff, and you have to, you know, presidents get very frustrated with the press and you're the person that can absorb that, have to absorb that frustration and also tell the hard truth. Let me just tell you. I know that's what you want to say, but if you say that, this is the impact of, you know, of -- of spouting off that way, and that might be ok in the moment but it will have reaper cushion repercussions. The rubber meets the road. You live in the reality the press covers every day and you've got to tell the president the hard things how it's going to be covered.

KEILAR: It is. It is.

#: I'm not sure that -- Scaramucci, I'm not sure he's really going to do that.

[14:35:05] KEILAR: It is certainly a tough job.

Jen Palmieri, thank you so much.

PALMIERI: My pleasure, Brianna.

#: Former communications director under President Obama, joining us there on the phone.

Dana Bash, you just spoke with Sean Spicer.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I did, while talking to Jen Palmieri, scooted off the set to take a quick call from Sean Spicer. Headline, answer to the question, why now, that he gave to me is, he wanted to give the president and the new team a clean slate. That that's the answer. That he is giving. He said, he told me that the president made clear that he, the president, wanted Sean Spicer to stay and Sean told him, you know, that he said he didn't want to stand in the way from letting this happen, from letting changes happen, and that he felt in the moment that the time was right for the White House and the White House staff and also for Sean Spicer personally. It was time to go.

KEILAR: Sources say he's upset.

BASH: They do. I can tell you that he did not sound upset when I talked to him. He sounded a lot like the Sean Spicer that we used to know back in the day at the RNC and the NRCC and all of the alphabet soup of Republican groups he used to work for. You know, I don't know. Relieved? He sounded OK. This is all, you know -- all consumed with this. I mean, we're in breaking coverage about the, his professional life and the changes in his life, but he didn't sound upset to me, and I can tell you that I know that our colleagues have spoken to sources who have spoken to him and said he had been upset.

KEILAR: Who else may be upset?

Brian Stelter has information on that.

What can you tell us, Brian?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRSPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: Worth noting Spicer' not the only Trump-world spokesperson to resign in the past 24 hours. So much news lately, this got buried a little. Mark Corallo, spokesman for Trump's outside legal team, resigned last night. Hasn't said really anything about this yet. He was close to Mark Kasowitz, who is also stepping back a bit from this legal team. It's notable. Corallo resigning last night, Spicer resigning today. I'm not saying the two are connected but more signs of dysfunction. You know, look, Corallo wasn't mocked on "SNL" the way Spicer was mocked by Melissa McCarthy, wasn't high-profile, but another example of this dysfunction.

KEILAR: And, Brian, do you have information about Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus sort of where they stand on how this is all shaking out?

STELTER: And I think we should make the point, I think Gloria and Dana have as well, that according to multiple sources, Priebus and Bannon were very concerned about the idea that Anthony Scaramucci was coming in, taking a big role in the White House. That they fought this decision but, ultimately, the president went ahead and did it.

KEILAR: Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

So Sean Spicer, of course, out as White House press secretary. We'll have more on that in a moment.

We'll sneak in a quick break here. And also, Spicer's deputy, Sarah Huckabee Sanders -- this is what we're looking at live. She is going to be briefing the press here shortly. We are watching for when she comes out.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:38] KEILAR: All right. A busy day here with breaking news. Keeping our eye on the pictures on the right of your screen. The briefing room at the White House. We are awaiting an on-camera press briefing. Been some time since we've seen that and deputy press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, will brief the case as Sean Spicer, the press secretary, has now resigned.

With me to talk more about that, Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, Chris Cillizza. And we also have Brian Stelter from New York as well.

This is so much chaos. What does this say, Chris, about what is going on at the White House?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I mean, chaos in ways is normal for this White House. This is more chaos than usual, but not as though this has been, know, a smooth process over these six months. In some ways, this is indicative of the six months and one day of Donald Trump's presidency. Unexpected moves causing chaos. I think if you step back from Sean, who had been diminished significantly in terms of a public figure over the past months anyway, step back, what does it say? In terms of Sean -- in terms of Scaramucci coming in, something Sean wasn't in favor of our Reince Priebus or the staff wasn't in favor. Something we've known all along from his professional and now his political career. Donald Trump when chips are down, it's family, family, family. There's a shrinking of -- already quite small usually inner circle. A shrinking of that to family and friends.

(CROSSTALK)

CILLIZZA: Who is Scaramucci, a friend of the family and friends with Trump.

KEILAR: Is this someone that his family members, Ivanka and Jared, the opinion that won out bringing Scaramucci in?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Jeff Zeleny reports that Jared and Ivanka supported the idea, that Steve Bannon was fiercely opposed to this idea.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And why? Why?

BORGER: Well, you know, I think that, you mow, there is a school of thought, which is that Scaramucci is just about Donald Trump. And not about an agenda that -- that is larger than Donald Trump, which Steve Bannon clearly -- Steve Bannon clearly wants to push. But this will affect -- I don't think we can underscore this enough. This will affect everything in the White House right now. Reince Priebus has expressed his support as Dana points out, to Scaramucci, but was never a huge supporter of his. The president is a huge supporter.

I will tell you one other thing. This is a president who demands 100 percent ultimate loyalty. I believe Sean Spicer gave him that. At some personal cost to himself.

[14:45:30] KEILAR: At considerable personal cost.

BORGER: But -- can I finish? But he did not, you know, give it in return. And you can go down a list of people, from Chris Christie to Rudy Giuliani to Sean Spicer, that this is a president who will cut you off -- aside from family, as you point out, who will cut you off if he feels that he has to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And, Brian Stelter, I know you have -- you have thoughts on this.

STELTER: I think it's notable Dana was able to speak with Spicer now out there tweeting as well saying he'll continue his service through August. So not leaving today. Today is not his final day at least according to his Twitter account. And being very positive saying, "It's been an honor and a privilege to serve President Trump and this amazing country."

We know he'll be on Sean Hannity, the show, later today. These are indications that Sean Spicer not trying to burn the bridge on the way out. Even though there are reports he was upset this morning. This happened quickly this morning. He seems to be signaling that he's going to try to speak positively about the president.

And meanwhile, we don't know who the new press secretary will be. Does Sarah Huckabee Sanders want the job? Some indication she does not. An open question about who's going to be sitting at the podium in the future. We know Sarah will be in a few minutes, but we don't know in the future.

KEILAR: We don't know.

Dana Bash, final thought to you?

BASH: Gloria hit on something important. Beyond who's at the podium and beyond the specific players and their names, it's what they stand for and what this means for the Trump presidency six months in. And how much he has learned about himself and what he need to do to be himself, and not, again, sort of put himself in the structure of traditional Washington. And for him, that means bring people in who know him well who support him. I'm not --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I'm not saying --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I'm just trying to explain it. And -- (CROSSTALK)

#: Is that what it is? Let Donald be Donald mentality?

BASH: He wants people in his comfort zone, who will go on TV and be "killers." Apparently, the word he's used behind the scenes about Anthony Scaramucci. But also, somebody just said this to me earlier. It's important I think. That the Bannon and' -- the Bannon wing or Reince wing are trying to push Donald Trump into, you know, kind of parts of the Republican Party or ideology, and what Anthony Scaramucci brings is somebody who just pushes Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Well, thank you to all of you.

We are, of course, moments away from the White House briefing. This is the first on-camera since the surprising resignation a short time ago. The first on-camera not just since then but in a long time. Not just since Sean Spicer resigned.

Jake Tapper picks up our special coverage, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:32] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: I'm Jake Tapper, live in Washington, D.C. This is CNN special coverage of a major shake-up at the Trump White House. Press Secretary Sean Spicer resigned just a short time ago after six months and one day on the job. The announcement came just minutes after President Trump named Anthony Scaramucci as communications chief. He's a close friend of the Trump family. He often appears in television interviews vociferously defending the president.

Moments from now, Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders will give, we are told, a rare on-camera briefing, the first on-camera briefing since June. And we'll take you to the room in just a moment.

But first, let's go to CNN's Dana Bash, who just got off the cell with Spicer.

So what did Mr. Spicer have to say?

BASH: It was a brief phone call, and the gist is, what I wanted to know, which I think is what everybody wants to know is, why now? After problem after problem after problem, slight embarrassment, you know, being sent out to do things that, you know, any other press secretary would be uncomfortable with, why now? Why this? And his answer was, he wanted to give a clean slate -- that was his term -- clean slate to the president and to the new team. He said that the president did ask him to stay, but that he, Sean, said that, given the situation, he thought it was better for the White House and it was also better for Sean, personally, to leave now.

TAPPER: But what was the issue with the Scaramucci hiring? He didn't -- he was going to have to report to Scaramucci? What exactly was the issue?

BASH: We didn't get into that that. It was a very brief conversation. But I can answer that based on other people who have talked to Sean and are familiar with the situation, is that, yes. Not only would he have to report to Scaramucci, he didn't think that Scaramucci would be doing the job -- would be able to do the job of a traditional communications director, strategize, vis-a-vis Washington, outside groups, the things that you need to do, and Sean would end up doing that job and also the spokesperson job. And he thought, I'm going to end up doing two jobs, and he was not very happy. That's the answer. My sense is that this kind of gave him an out, and maybe one that he didn't realize that he was looking for, but it presented itself to him, and he took it.

[14:54:56] TAPPER: Sean Spicer did recently tweet a special message. Let's put that up if we can: "It's been an honor and a privilege to serve POTUS Donald Trump and this amazing country. I will continue my service through August."

So that is the message from Sean Spicer via Twitter.

What exactly do we know, Gloria, about Anthony Scaramucci when it comes to communications, running a communications department? Obviously, the president thinks he's good on tv. Ad certainly he's eloquent and telegenic. But that's not the same thing as knowing how to manage a communications department for the most important government in the world.

BORGER: Right. And I was talking to somebody who's close to the president, and his fear is that while Scaramucci is, as Dana uses the word, "killer," right, and that's a favorite word of the president's, while he -- his agenda is President Trump. It's not an ideological agenda, it's not a political agenda. His agenda is defending Donald Trump. This person said to me that his fear is that it will not work, because you have to have broader expertise in terms of communication skills in this job. And that's not -- that's not his skill set. This person also said to me, look, this was a slap in the face to Sean. But there was a sense on the part of the president -- you know, this was the president's decision, another source said to me. But this source said, look, Scaramucci had been promised a lot of jobs. And --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Export/Import Bank, I think.

BORGER: Right. And I was told they were going to move him into the White House as some kind of special adviser, and Reince Priebus was not in favor of that. There's friction there. Although, as Dana's reported today that Reince Priebus says he's 100 percent behind this. So that there's a feeling on the part of the president, at least, that he had been promised all these jobs and that he hadn't gotten them. And this was a guy who was 100 percent loyal to him with no other agenda other than defending Donald Trump, and that Trump wanted him in and Jared Kushner wanted him in. And according to Jeff Zeleny, that Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon were usually opposed to this. So this is going to have repercussions inside the White House. TAPPER: I want to bring in Anita Dunn. She was a White House

communications director for President Obama several years ago.

Anita, let's posit, for the sake of argument, that Anthony Scaramucci is a great talking head and a great television representative for President Trump. President Trump thinks so, and that's really all that matters when it comes to hiring and firing in that gig. But you're a former communications director. What else do you have to know to do that job?

ANTIA DUNN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, Jake, there's no doubt this is a not a traditional choice or a traditional background for White House communications director. On the other hand, there is nothing traditional about either this president or the way this administration functions.

But here is what I would be concerned about if I were a Republican on Capitol Hill, especially having watched what happened with the health care bill. Which is, a huge part of the White House communications office's job is really to market and to get out the president's agenda and to create a communications message around that agenda that helps things get passed on the Hill, helps communicate to the American people why those policies are right. And this is not what his background is. You know, if the job is defending President Trump, that is one job. But actually, moving forward an agenda for this administration, given the challenges they've had in the first six months of getting any kind of coherent message out about what they want to do to keep those promises the president made during the campaign, it's a big job. It's a big government. Communications across all the agencies, across the independent agencies, all of that, at the end of the day, falls on the White House communications director's office, and on that desk. And you know what? It's more than just going on tv.

TAPPER: And, John King, I mean, the contrast between how involved President Obama was in passing Obamacare and how involved President Trump was in terms of repealing and replacing Obamacare is day and night. And you didn't see President Trump going to swing districts, explaining in detailed speeches what the bill -- what the action would do for voters, personally lobbying individual members of the Congress with knowledge of the policy, but that's not necessarily Sean Spicer's fault.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, INSIDE POLIICS: No, it's not. The president has constantly undermined a lot of people he works with and who work for him by saying things contrary to what they have said. Sean Spicer lays out an explanation or strategy on day A, and by breakfast the next day, the president has said or tweeted something different. The president is the president. What he says is the rule of law at his White House.

To Anita's point, you can design jobs in different ways. President Trump is conducting himself as president in a way like none of who have covered the White House have never seen before. He has every right to do that. So you can change any job. The communications director can be your front man, provided that person then builds a staff of deputies who understand the perplexities of the job. And we're six months into the Trump administration, and I think it's a fair statement that they simply have not --