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Trump Taunts Congress over Failed Obamacare Repeal; Kinzinger Talks Health Care's Future, Russia Retaliation, Transgenders in Military; Tom Perez Talks Health Care, Democratic Party. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 31, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[13:32:20] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump wants Congress to know he isn't done with trying to repeal and replace Obamacare, tweeting out a taunt to Republicans just this morning. Let me quote from the president's tweet, "If Obamacare is hurting people, and it is, why shouldn't it hurt the insurance companies? And why should Congress not be paying what public pays?"

Some Republicans in the U.S. Senate say they want to see a more open process, if the White House is going to try again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R), MAINE: Congress doesn't do comprehensive well. We need to go back to committee, to the Health Committee and the Finance Committee, identify the problems, carefully evaluate possible solutions through hearings, and then produce a series of bills to correct these problems.

SEN. JEFF FLAKE, (R), ARIZONA: There are only so many things can you do, just as one party. We're arriving there a little quicker than we thought. I'm glad to see that now we're talking about sitting down with our colleagues, going back to committee, going back to what we call regular order, and letting the committees and the experts deal with it, and bringing the public in more than we have before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to bring in our senior Washington correspondent, Brianna Keilar, on Capitol Hill.

Brianna, who's laying the groundwork for a new bill, or a set of bills? The next step?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You're hearing some from Senators Collins, Senator Flake, on the Republican side. We've heard from the Democratic leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, a desire, perhaps to doing in some a bipartisan way. There some House Republicans and Democrats looking at this.

The outstanding question, Wolf, is after a stunning defeat for Republicans in the Senate Friday, where does Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, stand on this? Where does President Trump stand on this desire to work across the aisle? We're hoping to find out more when, and get a better sense where Mitch McConnell is on that today when the Senate comes in to session this afternoon. And also really the -- the lengths to which President Trump would be willing to go to push this. We're also going to get a better idea tomorrow when we hear Senators getting together, discussing during their lunch, really a postmortem of what happened on Friday.

But you see that tweet coming from President Trump where he said, why shouldn't the health insurance companies hurt? There is something before the Trump administration this week that could be very huge. That is a decision about whether to essentially subsidize insurance companies as part of Obamacare. Part -- really, a key part of the whole program is payments made by the government to insurers. You can imagine if those bills were not paid. That will really upset the applecart here. And this is something Republicans in both chambers actually going through this process of attempting to repeal and replace, they wanted those payments made. To not pay them would destabilize the situation. So that is going to be a big question mark they were hoping to have answered, what is the president going to decide on that -- Wolf?

[13:35:19] BLITZER: Brianna Keilar, lots of questions on Capitol Hill. Brianna reporting for us. Thank you.

My next guest says with repeal and replace voted down for now, he has a different idea about how to help health care. Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger - you see him live right now - he will join us. We'll discuss that, Russia's retaliation against the United States and more, right after a quick break.

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[13:40:01] BLITZER: President Trump is trying to keep the repeal of Obamacare still alive. Warning Congress that health care needs to be solved now.

Let's bring in Congressman Adam Kinzinger, a Republican from Illinois, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER, (R), ILLINOIS: You bet. Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: The president says unless Republican Senators are "quitters" -- his words -- Obamacare repeal and replace is not dead. But is that really realistic given the numbers in the U.S. Senate? Or should Republicans now look ahead to either tax reform, infrastructure development, other issues, or maybe start working with Democrats to see if there's bipartisan cooperation to fix the Affordable Care Act?

KINZINGER: I guess I can kind of say yes to all of it. Keep in mind, to pass Obamacare originally, it took quite a bit of time. So if Senators want to work on repeal and replace, and somehow think they can find a sweet spot -- they haven't yet -- I'm OK with that. At the same time, I think it's time we release principles out of the group, No Labels, to begin to figure out where is it Republicans and Democrat can work together. And is there common ground? Is there a way to be able to do this? Because I'm not in the -- not a fan of the idea of let's watch this fail, and then we jump in. Because it's -- it's real people's lives at stake. When you talk about the fact that the ACA is imploding, it appears to be, with skyrocketing premiums and deductibles, we need make sure we do the best to fix people's lives. We can kind of do all of it at the same time. I think the bulk of the effort needs to move to tax reform, infrastructure, those issues. So I guess the answer to your question is, almost yes for all of it, but we need to begin to explore where we have common ground on the issue of health care --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You were talking about No Labels, a coalition, moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans in the House. You came together at least, what, about 40 of you now, saying let's work together? Tell us about that.

KINZINGER: Yes. It's basically taking principles we all can agree on, and frankly, there are some far-left Democrats in it and pretty far-right Republicans, too. But it's of this idea of assuming Republicans can't get their way of repeal and replace and, so far, haven't been able to pull it off. What do we do to actually fix the system and what are those principles and areas, including stabilizing the market. And ultimately, we can look at I think the real driver of health care costs, which is we need things like truth in billing in the health care market, increased competition to make sure it drives the costs down and gives people better access. Let's try to figure where those areas of common ground exist. We haven't had this conversation in, frankly, since the begins of the debate on ACA. Now is the time do it and maybe come to a magical solution, maybe we don't, but the American people deserves, this country deserves that we at least to explore it.

BLITZER: Let's talk about other critical issues now. The Russians have ordered hundreds of workers out of the U.S. embassy other missions throughout Russian, partly in retaliation for the new sanctions bill, overwhelmingly passed by the House and the Senate. Do you have any concern that the U.S. and Russia are going back to the bad old days of dueling diplomatic expulsions?

KINZINGER: We've been in those days for a while, to be honest with you. I think the Russians have seen this as kind of a re-birth of the Cold War. We've seen them buzzing our ships, and shadowing our planes, and you've seen them invading their neighbors. This is Vladimir Putin, the way he knows, the way he exists. Everything to him is a zero-sum game. If somebody gains, it means he loses, and vice versa. It's not surprising. What's noteworthy in all of this, though, it's not the Russians retaliating, economically, because they have an economy that doesn't have the ability to retaliate economically. They basically exist solely on energy. Energy prices are down. Our economy is 18 times the size of Russia. So while this is concerning to see 755 people expelled, and I think not necessarily great, of course, they are not reacting economically because, frankly, the United States and the Western coalition has the ability to do that and Russia simply doesn't.

BLITZER: You've been very vocal about Russia. You've warned of the threat it poses to the U.S., to U.S. allies, particularly its real in the Middle East right now. So here's the question: These new sanctions that the president is about to sign into law, are they enough?

KINZINGER: I don't know if they're enough. Probably not. It's a good start. Well, it's a good furtherance of sanctions we put in place, I guess. Ultimately, Vladimir Putin needs to feel a very strong hit on his economy, because he's diverting a lot of resources away from his people who are starving and desperate, and putting them into recapitalizing his military and military actions in Syria to, frankly, destabilize that area simply to say that Russia is back. We need to continually assess. I don't want this perpetual, in essence, Cold War feeling or perpetual retaliation. If there are areas we can work together, great. But a couple red lines have to be set. Number one, quit killing innocent civilians by bombing hospitals and emboldening a very bad dictator, Bashar al Assad. And quit trying to mess with our elections. They very underpinning of freedom and democracy is the belief that you can vote and have your voice heard. When an outside group like Russia tries to interfere, whether it's use or allies, it's undermines that. Those are areas that red lines need to be put down. And if there's areas we can work together, China, North Korea, et cetera, then great.

[13:45:31]BLITZER: We're hearing from the Pentagon today, Congressman, that it has yet to receive any formal policy memo on President Trump's tweet the other day banning transgender Americans from serving in the U.S. military. You've had a distinguished career in the Air Force. You're still in the Air National Guard. Are you concerned about the way the president is making these kinds of policy decisions, tweeting about it, without formally consulting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

KINZINGER: It is a concern. The Pentagon was undergoing, or I guess still is undergoing, a pretty extensive study in terms of what are the concerns with transgender Americans serving? Are there any issues? They're going through that lengthy process. There's nobody that can understand that, frankly, than folks in the military. I have opposed public funding, government funding for the actual surgeries during. But I'll tell you, to look at this now and put something out on a tweet without allowing the study to come out, I think is frankly not the way to do policy. And I hope that, despite that, the president waits for the Pentagon recommendation and then takes it, whatever that is.

BLITZER: Do you believe that transgender Americans should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military?

KINZINGER: Well, I believe that the Pentagon should undergo this. Like I said, I've opposed the idea of government funding during, not just because of the cost, but because it takes people out of service during that process. But in terms of those in, there are very heroic Americans who serve in the military that are transgender, and probably very heroic people who want to do it as well. I'll leave that up to the Pentagon to come up with, here's concerns or here's where it would work out really well, and I'll determine from that.

BLITZER: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, of Illinois, thanks very much for joining us.

KINZINGER: You bet. Any time.

BLITZER: Amid staff shake-ups and defeat on repealing Obamacare, the president says there's no chaos in the White House. The Democratic National Committee chairman, standing by to join us live. We'll talk about that, what the Democratic Party are planning to do to move forward. We'll be right back.

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[13:51:21] BLITZER: The fate of health care very much still up in the air. President Trump telling Republicans to keep working while Democrats and at least one Republican say the best path forward is bipartisan negotiations and some compromises.

Here with us is Tom Perez, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Tom, thanks very much for coming in.

TOM PEREZ, CHAIR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Glad to be back.

BLITZER: Is there realistically a chance that Democrats and Republicans can work together to fix the problems of the Affordable Care Act and move on?

PEREZ: I would love to see it. We have helped millions of people get access to health care as a result of the Affordable Care Act. But there's more unfinished business. And there are things that ought to be able to get done on a bipartisan basis. We ought to be able to take on the pharmaceutical industry, for instance, and lower of cost of prescription drugs. There's a reinsurance proposal that could help stabilize the insurance markets. And most importantly, Donald Trump could say to everybody that I'm not going to continue to destabilize markets. Because I talked to companies who say uncertainty is a real problem. When you create uncertainty, we either have to raise premiums or get out of the market.

BLITZER: People's -- part of those -- the Affordable Care Act, their premiums are going up. He tweeted this, this morning, at 7:37, "Don't give up. The world is watching. Repeal and replace, and go to 51 votes, nuke option. Get cross state lines and more."

I want your reaction to that.

PEREZ: There goes Distracting Donald again. The filibuster had absolutely nothing to do with the failures last week. Donald Trump and the Republicans in the House and Senate are solely responsible for them.

BLITZER: But I think what he was referring to the cross state lines, means insurance companies, they can work nationally. They don't have to just work in states. That might make it cheaper for people all over the country. You can't do that, though, without 60 votes right now, the filibuster-proof number, which they won't get. You need 50. He wants it to go down to 51.

PEREZ: You know, there's so many fixes I think could command bipartisan support. As I mentioned, the prescription drug fix. Why does the pharmaceutical industry have a stranglehold on Washington? That's not good for consumers. Why can't we come together around this reinsurance proposal? Which means if somebody -- the high-cost patients, what we do, which we did in the first three years of the Affordable Care Act, we provide assistance to insurance companies to stabilize the markets. There's a lot we can do together.

BLITZER: Do you think that insurance companies should be able to sell nationally --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: -- across state lines or only be bound by the states?

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: There's going to be a lot of issues that would come up there. You want to make sure -- the key is, Wolf, you have to have everyone around the table to understand what the consequences are. So far, there's been 13 men who got together behind closed doors in the Senate to craft a bill that was lousy. It hurt people. What it was, was a tax-cut bill. What we have to do is get back to the regular order. That's what John McCain said. That's what Ted Kennedy would have said, if he were with us today, my former boss. And that's what we ought to do.

BLITZER: You're the new chairman of the Democratic Party. What do you need to do? You lost the White House, the Senate, the House, state legislatures. You have an enormous challenge. Do you need new blood?

PEREZ: You know what we need to do? We need to organize in every state. We return to what Howard Dean talked about, a 50-state strategy. We need to lead with our values. We believe everybody is entitled to punch their ticket to the middle class. We believe health care is a right for all and not a privilege for a few. We believe that in this dynamic economy, we always need to equip people with the skills to compete for the jobs of today and the --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You need new blood. Do you need to get some new energy? What do you need?

[13:55:05] PEREZ: We need to win elections. What we are doing to win elections is, in places like Virginia, we're out there organizing. In places like New Jersey. These are the two elections coming up in November. I think we're well positioned to take both those seats. Those governorships are 13-year elections, as I say, because they will control redistricting for the next cycle. And we tell people -- we have to get directly to the American people and tell them what we stand for. We stand for prosperity for everyone, not just a few at the top. We want to make sure we're lifting your wages, not depressing your wages, like the other side. When I was in the Labor Department, we fought to lift overtime wages. They fought against us. We fought to enhance retirement security. They fought against us. We're fighting for the things that people care about.

BLITZER: You have a huge challenge ahead of you, you and your fellow Democrats.

Thanks for coming in. And just like to say go --

PEREZ: Go Bills.

BLITZER: We're both from Buffalo.

Thanks very much, Tom Perez, chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

PEREZ: Great to be with you.

BLITZER: That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

The news continues right after a quick break.

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