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FBI Raids Manafort's Home; Russia Investigation Materials Seized; Manafort's Home Raided After Testimony; North Korea Threatens Guam; President Trump's Says North Korea Must Stand Down. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired August 9, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m., here in Washington, 2:00 a.m. Thursday in Seoul, 3:00 a.m. Thursday in Guam. Wherever you're watching around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with the dramatic war of words and the heightened tensions between the United States and North Korea.

We're just getting a statement from Defense Secretary James Mattis over at the Pentagon. He says North Korea should, quote, "cease any consideration of actions that will lead to the end of the regime and the destruction of its people."

In his latest move, President Trump today asserted the strength of U.S. nuclear capabilities. He tweeted, quote, "My first order as president was to renovate and modernize the nuclear -- our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before." And he continues, "hopefully we will never have to use this power, but there will never be a time that we are not the most powerful nation in the world."

The president's tweet follows his stark warning to North Korea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, says the president wanted to put North Korea on notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the president -- what the president's doing is sending a strong message to North Korea, in language that Kim Jong-un would understand because he doesn't seem to understand diplomatic language.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The heightened tensions with North Korea follow in advance in its nuclear program. Intelligence sources now say North Korea has the ability to miniaturize a nuclear warhead to fit on top of a ballistic missile.

And in its latest salvo, North Korea has threatened to missile strike on the U.S. territory of Guam. The threat was in response to the U.S. flying two B1 bombers over the Korean Peninsula earlier in the week. Those bombers based in Guam.

Let's get some more details on all of these late-breaking developments. Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is with us. We're also joined by our Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson who has just arrived on the island of Guam. And our CNN Correspondent Will Ripley is joining us from Beijing.

Barbara, how significant, first of all, these latest comments, a very deliberate statement released by the U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Very deliberate, Wolf, and very assertive, very aggressive language. You do not often hear from a secretary of defense and you never hear it casually.

Let's go back to what you were just mentioning. James Mattis saying in this statement that North Korea should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people.

That is a reminder to Kim Jong-Un that the U.S. does possess the ability to end the regime in North Korea by military means if it comes to it.

This is an effort to convince Kim that he must give up this nuclear deterrence he thinks he has. And that he cannot take these actions, especially after everyone saw the threat from North Korea to attack Guam.

Theoretical, real or not, it is a threat against the United States. That is what you're seeing a response to.

At the end of his statement, Secretary Mattis also uses some very deliberate words. He says that the combined allied militaries, which is really the United States, now possess the most precise, rehearsed and robust defensive and offensive capabilities on earth.

And he goes on to say, North Korea will be grossly overmatched and would lose any conflict it initiates. This is the U.S. Defense secretary spelling out what the U.S. can do to North Korea.

BLITZER: Very strong words from the U.S. Defense secretary. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks very much.

Ivan, North Korea has threatened to strike Guam. You just got to the island of Guam. You just arrived there. So, what kind of response are you seeing there? What about this threat? How are the folks, about 162,000 people live on Guam, all U.S. citizens?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I just landed here less than two hours ago. And believe it or not, I flew from South Korea on a plane that was full of Korean tourists coming here.

The hotels, most of them are completely fully booked. It was hard for us to get a hotel room here. So, the tourism industry is clearly still functioning right now.

There was some gallows humor from customs officers at the airport, hey, are we going to get attacked? That kind of thing. So, people very much know that Guam is in the news right now.

[13:05:07] The official statements that have come out -- and let me just add, there are no signs whatsoever, that I've seen, of panic or, you know, preparations by the population here for any possible conflict.

Then, you've got a statement from the governor of Guam, who said that there is no new threat to this island, to this American territory. And the fact that the U.S. secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, just a couple of hours ago, flew through this island and stopped for refueling. And said he did not consider redirecting his flight and did not see any new imminent threat to Guam.

This isn't the first time that North Korea has threatened this island. This is the western-most kind of location for territorial U.S.

And, yes, there are a number of American military facilities here, like Andersen Air Force Base, which are used by bombers that have flown over the Korean Peninsula here, in shows of force, clear shows of force to the North Korean regime -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Ivan, we're going to get back to you. Ivan Watson now on the island of Guam, a U.S. territory.

Will, you're in Beijing for us. So, what's the response of the Chinese government to President Trump's threat to unleash what he calls fire and fury at North Korea?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: China really trying to tone things down, Wolf, as they often do when tensions escalate on the peninsula. They don't want to see a war break out at their doorstep. They don't want to see hundreds of thousands of North Koreans flooding across their border.

And they also want to try to maintain their relationship, their alliance with North Korea, and also their very important relationship with the United States.

So, we have this statement out from the Chinese ministry of foreign affairs, stressing the sensitivity and complexity of the situation on the Korean Peninsula, saying that China calls on the relevant sides to follow the broad direction of resolving the nuclear issue through political means. Avoid the remarks and actions that could aggravate conflicts and

escalate tensions and make a greater effort to return to the correct path of resolving the issue through dialogue and negotiations.

That message, Wolf, aimed at all parties involved here, both President Trump, the United States, but also North Korea and Kim Jong-Un.

BLITZER: An important statement from the government of China which plays a very significant role in all of this.

Will Ripley in Beijing, thank you. Ivan Watson in Guam for us as well.

So, what is the U.S. strategy for dealing with North Korea and its nuclear threat? And what are the realistic options?

Let's discuss with CNN Military Analyst retired Major General James Spider Marks. Our CNN Military and Diplomatic Analyst retired Rear Admiral John Kirby. And our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto.

It looks like the president, President Trump, Jim, has -- with his in a fire and fury threat drawing a new red line.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: If you take his words at face value, he did exactly that. We listened to the tape just a couple of minutes ago. He said, if North Korea makes further threats, those threats will be met with fire and fury. That's the direct meaning of his words.

Now, that's already been belied in the last 24 hours, because North Korea has made further threats, as it often does, rhetorically, this time against Guam. And it has not been met with fire and fury.

So, I think what you see with Mattis' statement today, though it has -- it struck me that the words were very strong and forward leaning. You have something of a reinterpretation of the president's position here in more tradition form, saying a reminder that the U.S. possesses unmatched military capability. It has said that before.

And connecting that to -- if you look at the final sentence of this statement, saying the regime's actions will continue to be grossly overmatched by ours. It will lose any arms race or conflict it initiates.

In other words, saying, this is the military action. Not for a threat, which North Korea makes every other day, but for an arms race, further progress in its nuclear forces, et cetera, or conflict it initiates.

So, I think this is a strongly-worded but reinterpretation perhaps walk back of the president's unrehearsed remarks yesterday.

BLITZER: Yes. And because we are getting different tones, John Kirby, from the secretary of defense, as Jim just points out and from what we heard from the president, and from the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson.

His remarks on that flight, he was heading back to the United States, refueling pointedly on Guam. His remarks were very different in tone than what we heard from the president. You've written a piece on CNN.com, suggesting that the President remarks, in your opinion, sort of feed into the angry rhetoric we're hearing from the North Korean leader.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (retired), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Oh, yes, I think it just plays right into Kim Jong-Un's propaganda. His whole idea -- he wants to make this about the U.S. versus the DPRK. Even when they came out against the sanctions over the weekend, they pinned it all on the United States not the United Nations.

So, when you do this with him, you're just feeding his propaganda. You're actually helping him justify why he's building this program.

As for the two statements, look, I think part of this each guy's got a different world, right? The State Department is into diplomacy, dialogue, negotiation, try to find a peaceful solution.

[13:10:00] General Mattis, on the other hand, has to be ready, as Jim rightly said, for a whole range of military possibilities here. And he has to be forceful. That's number one.

Number two, I think what you're seeing is a reaction to the president's rhetoric. That they -- that -- it's not surprised me at all that you have the State Department coming out first.

Look, Rex Tillerson doesn't like talking to the press on the plane. He did that because he had to do that.

And same thing with Secretary Mattis. This is not the kind of statement you typically see from him. It is very muscular.

But I think he had to do it. And he had to put some context on the president's comments of defense James Mattis, this is not what you usually see from him. But he had to put some context on the president's comments. Had the president not said that yesterday, I don't think you would have seen this.

BLITZER: Is this an element -- some have suggested, you know, General, that this is an element of good cop, bad cop. And that's the message that they're sending to Kim Jong-un.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, that would -- that would cut out that there was some degree of coordination. That there was a conversation, a priority that said, you're the good cop. I'm the bad cop. And we're going to work thing out.

I think what we really seek, to John's point, is Secretary Tillerson, and I'm going to put this in military terms, he's the anvil. And what Secretary Mattis is is the hammer.

And the message is, always, diplomacy is always a tool that must be used. Even in conflict, you want to try to de-escalate. You want to try to crush the enemy, but you want to deescalate and you want to work a diplomatic initiative.

That's what I think we're seeing right here. Totally in concert with each other. The secretary of state saying very formally, after the president, look, everybody needs to relax. Breathe through your nose. Secretary of defense is saying, yes, I don't want you, North Korea, to think for a second that you're going to get away with any provocative action.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's interesting with Mattis. The first thing he mentions in his statement is the U.N. Security Council's unified voice. It's a revolution. So, it's going back to the diplomatic measures.

KIRBY: And take a look at the last sentence in this, the first paragraph talks about the end of its regime and the destruction of its people. He's getting right at what Kim Jong-un considers the center of gravity. The whole reason he's pursuing this arsenal is regime survival. And Mattis is telling him, that's not the way to do it.

BLITZER: Don't mess with the United States, because this will be the end of your regime and the destruction of your people. That's basically the message from the Defense secretary.

The president did weigh in this morning with a couple of tweets. My first order as president was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before. Hopefully, we will never have to use this power, but there will never be a time that we are not the most powerful nation in the world.

SCIUTTO: Listen, the president is misleading at best. Because, one, he did order a review. That review is still underway. You do not modernize U.S. nuclear forces in six months' time.

The fact is, President Obama ordered the modernization last year. It's a trillion-dollar effort. It's going to take a number of years. Not all that money has been allocated.

So, you see, again, in Mattis' statement. He kind of walks it back and says, here's what the president did do. He says that his first order is to emphasize the readiness of our ballistic missile defense as nuclear deterrent forces. That's fine. Up -- let's up the readiness.

But the president has not successfully executed an order to modernize all of the U.S. nuclear forces. That started last year. It's going to take a number of years. It's going to take hundreds of billions of dollars.

BLITZER: Yes. And I'm sure the North Koreans understand. They may have 30 or 50 or 60 nuclear bombs. The United States has, what, 7,000?

KIRBY: Yes, it's an overwhelming capability.

But, you know, Jim's right. The review is something you do all the time. It's congressionally mandated. It doesn't mean that the nuclear arsenal isn't ready and capable right now.

BLITZER: Your analysis.

MARKS: Yes. My view of all of this is that our level of preparedness was at a heightened level three decades ago. It was two decades ago. Earlier this morning, it was at a level of readiness where it needs to be relative to what we see on the peninsula and the conditions that we're facing.

In other words, this combined forces command in the south is ready 24- 7 and is prepared for these kinds of (INAUDIBLE.)

What we have is a conflagration of words. And we can, kind of, ratchet down the tension. And I'm sure everybody on the peninsula is saying, we got the message.

If there's going to be -- if there's going to be fire, if there's going to be fury, whatever else, we, the citizens of Seoul, are the ones that are going to pay the price. We know that. We don't need to be reminded of that. What we have is a very solid alliance with the South Koreans, and we can't afford to lose that.

BLITZER: Guys, thanks very, very much. Jim Sciutto, John Kirby and Spider Marks.

Coming up, much more on this development, these developments involving North Korea.

But also, other major developments unfolding here in Washington. Raided by the FBI, what we're now learning about an early morning search at the home of the Donald Trump campaign's chairman, Paul Manafort. There you see a picture of him. We'll have details when we come back.

[13:14:21]

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[13:18:41] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

We're staying on top of the developing story, the U.S. secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, defending the president's warning that he could unleash fire and fury on North Korea. But adding that at least as of now, no sign the threat level has changed.

We'll continue to update you on the North Korea nuclear tensions. That's coming up.

We also want to get to another major development that's unfolding here in Washington in the entire Russia political investigation.

CNN is learning the FBI raided the home of the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort late last month, just one day after Manafort met with investigators of the -- before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I want to bring in our CNN crime and justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, who's following these late breaking development for us.

So, first of all, Shimon, this comes as a surprise. We thought he was cooperating. They say he was cooperating. What do we know about this seizure? What happened?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Wolf, you're absolutely right, certainly a surprise.

We're told FBI agents seized financial documents and tax records from his Alexandra, Virginia, home as part of their now expanded investigation into the Trump campaign, which has -- now CNN has reported crossing this so-called red line the president has talked about, the finances of people around him, including his family. Certainly the action by the special counsel did come as a surprise to those close to Manafort, especially, Wolf, as you said, because he's being willing to cooperate.

[13:20:11] His spokesman, just moments after the news broke, issuing this statement saying that, quote, "FBI agents executed a search warrant at one of Mr. Manafort's residences. Mr. Manafort has consistently cooperated with law enforcement and other serious inquiries and did so on this occasion as well."

And, Wolf, this certainly appears to be a tactical move by investigators.

BLITZER: What does that mean, a tactical move?

PROKUPECZ: Well, it could be that they maybe want to rush along. Maybe he's not as fully cooperative as they have wanted him to be. Or perhaps they're trying to put a squeeze on him. Maybe there's some indications he's not willing to cooperate.

But all along, certainly the people that we've talked to, that CNN has talked to, that are close to him, have always given the indication that he has been willing to cooperate. In fact, as we know, he has handed in documents to the Senate Intelligence Committee which has also been looking at some of this sort of Russian meddling and collusion.

BLITZER: Truly a surprise development. You see some of the documents received by the Senate Judiciary Committee, about 20,000 pages, from the Trump campaign, Manafort, we're told, approximately 400 pages he provided to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Donald Trump Jr., the son of the president, approximately 250 pages.

Shimon, stand by. We'll get back to you. I know you're working your sources as well.

In the meantime, I want to bring in our CNN legal analyst, Laura Coats, A.B. Stoddard is joining us, associate editor and columnist at RealClearPolitics, and our CNN politics reporter and editor at large, Chris Cillizza.

So what does this mean? Obviously a federal judge would have to have what's called probable cause to approve a search warrant for a pre- dawn raid and without any advanced notification to Paul Manfort's home.

LAURA COATS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: In fact, at any time of the raid, essentially.

But what you're seeing here is the idea of cooperation. He has handed over documents to the Senate. Mueller is overseeing a criminal probe. There's been no indication yet that he's been cooperative in the criminal probe. What you hand over to the Senate or to the House is very, very different.

What this is telling -- you already know that there is a magnifying glass over Paul Manafort's head for other unrelated financial matters, including his ties to the Ukraine, et cetera. But now you have somebody who they're saying, look, we're not going to just trust that you're going to volunteer every source of information that you want to give them and we will take on a wink and nod that you're being truthful.

The role of the investigators and the role of the FBI is to dig out information that they would not otherwise be privy too and the search warrant helps that. So there's speculation, number one.

Number two, the idea that he was talking about squeezing them out, this is about leverage. You would like to have people to cooperate in order to access and perhaps, you know, prosecute if there's evidence to do so, other big fish.

Now, Manafort was the number one guy at the time that the collusion activity was heating up. He certainly is somebody who was at that meeting with Veselnitskaya, who was the Russian lawyer talking about the (INAUDIBLE) argument about adoption. And he's somebody who has handed over documents about finances. He had very, very key ties to Russia.

So if you're going to try to get information about other people in the campaign who may have been involved, you want the leverage of other information. What I see here is speculation and very good investigation and I do not know whether or not there has been a concerted effort to cooperate with both the Senate and the criminal probe.

BLITZER: Just alleged collusion.

COATS: Alleged collusion.

BLITZER: Alleged collusion.

COATS: Exclamation point, Wolf.

BLITZER: Activity. OK, I just want to point that out.

How do you see this, because this does come as a surprise. It's not every day that the special counsel and the FBI would launch a search like this, get a search warrant, and -- against a very, very high profile person? CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: No. And the FBI coming to your

house and taking things from it is clearly to send a message and to sort of say, this is -- you know, this is ongoing and aggressive.

Look, I think, Wolf, what it is, it's the latest in a series of things that we've seen post the one year of this investigation happening. We now know there are three dozen people involved in the investigation. A small U.S. attorney's office, it was described to some of our colleagues. We know a grand jury has been empaneled. We know they have issued subpoenas. So this is all moving forward.

It's fascinating to me because it's moving forward -- this is one of the more public things that we've seen, but it's all moving forward with Bob Mueller and the rest of his investigators totally silent. Meanwhile, on the other side, you have Donald Trump, which on total hoax, his lawyers are looking into ways to, as "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" have reported, ways to, you know, offer some opposition research on some of these people.

So you have a lot of noise on this end. This is a little bit noisy on the special counsel end, and I think meant to be so. But this is not an investigation Donald Trump, through all of his talk, through his huffing and puffing can stop, really. I mean he could fire Bob Mueller, but there's circumstances there. So I think that's fascinating, they're both moving along in these tracks, one a lot louder than the other.

[13:25:08] BLITZER: Because, A.B., it does send a pretty strong message. Obviously Paul Manafort got the message very personally. But others who are under investigation right now, I mean Michael Flynn, the former national security advisor, or who others, they might get a knock on their door early one morning as well.

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR & COLUMNIST, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Right. The predawn raid is a sign that they had reason to suspect that he might destroy evidence and he wasn't fully disclosing all that he had. It sends a signal to other people who are under investigation that nothing will be spared. It sends a signal, it has nothing to do with Donald Trump at this point, but what it says to people on Capitol Hill, Congressional Republicans is, wow, this Manafort guy, he might be really deep in. He might be the lynch pin to this alleged collusion. He was the one, as Laura pointed out, with the most ties to Russia, the most contacts. And they might try to turn him, or Lieutenant General Michael Flynn.

They seem to me the most deep. And what it says if you're still working on the White House team is, wow, what does this mean in terms of, again, how deep Paul Manafort might have been in, what they could turn up. And it makes it less of a witch hunt every time you have one of these tangible events where they had probable cause to believe a crime is committed, suspected you might be about to destroy evidence and documents, and they raid your home before dawn, that's really conclusive.

CILLIZZA: And Bob Mueller -- Bob Mueller now cowed by Trump. I mean I don't think anyone who knew him thought he would be, but not intimidated by this sort of aggressiveness with which Donald Trump has approached rhetorically speaking the investigation.

BLITZER: Yes. And you know this is going to come out. And just to be precise, when FBI agents go in on a search warrant and raid someone's home, they can take whatever they want, computers, files, anything they want.

COATS: They could. Whatever is essentially a part of the warrant and the scope of the evidence they're looking for. It could include electronic data. It could include actual notes. It can include computers and hard drives and whatever else. It can include cell phones that may be taken, or any records on tablets. It could be a very, very wide scope.

And what this is telling you is essentially, look, talk about, you know, being quiet and carrying a big warrant, that's Robert Mueller here.

BLITZER: Right.

COATS: He's not going to advertise to you, he's not going to have kid gloves. And the FBI is supposed to be skeptical, supposed to be suspicious. And the message it's sending is, you may have seen across the globe and across the media the nice hearings on Capitol Hill with a nice glass of water in front of you, but when the FBI is involved in it, you will not be treated with any different than what everyone else in the FBI is. And even if you're Paul Manafort.

BLITZER: Yes, you send a powerful message with a raid like that.

All right, guys, thanks very, very much, Chris, A.B., and Laura. A good discussion.

Just 20 minutes, that's how long it would take a North Korean missile to hit Hawaii. So how is that state preparing? Coming up, we're going to go live to Honolulu at a command center standing by for what could be a worst-case scenario.

Stay with us.

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