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Mueller Seeks Documents Involving Trump's Actions as President; Trump Meets with Japanese President at U.N. General Assembly; Trump Claims Graham-Cassidy Covers Preexisting Conditions; Health Care Feud Between Kimmel & Cassidy Escalates; Grassley: GOP Needs to Pass Promised Health Care Legislation. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 21, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It reminds me of when Donald Trump said not to my knowledge and never that I knew. You want to protect the flip against you. That's a certainly that he is in fact an enemy of the White House and turns out the investigation points directly at them. Whenever you tell somebody don't look over here, your tendency is to look at what you were told not to look at. The irony on the criminal probe is that we are not digging up evidence we wouldn't otherwise have. We are not probing into things we couldn't see. We are using the president's words and Mike Pence's words and what Manafort said and it's coming back to haunt people in a real way in real time. You will see the distance happen. I'm not surprised by it, but not sure at this point that Manafort is truly cooperating with Mueller's team enough to have that be justified.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: The president left plenty of bread crumbs, perhaps the vice president, too.

Thanks to both of you.

Republican Senator's comment about the health care bill raising eyebrows about the motivation of his party's rush to Obamacare. Details next.

Trump says the bill covers preexisting conditions. We will fact check that. As Jimmy Kimmel launches another attack on Republicans. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. It's wonderful to have Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is doing a great job for the people of Japan. We had discussions already today and this is a formalization of the discussions. We've made a lot of progress both on trade and obviously, very importantly, we have discussed in great detail North Korea, with also South Korea, as you just saw. So we will continue that relationship that has never been closer with Japan and the United States. It will continue on with that way. I look forward to discussing some things that the group is here specifically to discuss and we will be reporting back to you later.

Thank you all very much. You heard about China, what China was doing today in terms of the

banking system. That was a tremendous move. And we have great respect. And we also would like to thank President Xi of China. It was a great thing he did today.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[13:36:07] ACOSTA: Let's break out of this for a moment and we will go back to this if there is more news that develops.

But I will go to Gloria Borger to talk about this.

We heard the president referencing the new actions and new sanctions aimed at North Korea and he is hitting there with the Japanese prime minister. One of the things he said is China is starting to exert influence on this through the banking system.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And enforce sanctions that had not been enforced.

ACOSTA: That is key to this.

BORGER: That is key to this. That's what we hear the president referring to, and he is thanking the Chinese here for cooperating.

ACOSTA: Contrast that with what we heard a couple of days ago. At the United Nations, the president threatening to totally wipe out North Korea referring to Kim Jong-Un as Rocket Man. He is falling back on what presidents have done with rogue regimes and go after sanctions and try to use the levers that are normally accompanying the powers of the presidency to try to keep people in line. Not so much of the brinkmanship today.

BORGER: There isn't. Speak softly and carry a big stick goes to speak loudly and carry a big stick, too.

ACOSTA: Smaller stick today.

BORGER: That's still the nature of this president. He will level every threat he can and we will destroy you and fire and fury. What he wants to do is unnerve the North Koreans and I'm not sure it has the intended effect.

ACOSTA: Karoun Demirjian is joining us, Perry Bacon as well, as we are watching this unfold.

We will go back to the president as he makes news here.

Karoun, what do you make of this move that the White House is taking against North Korea. A lot less fire and fury than what we heard a couple of days ago.

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Fire and furry doesn't work if you are only threatening fire and fury alone. If there is a moment to come together, the powers that exert influence, it was going to be this week at the un general assembly. This is a positive step if he is stepping up enforcement. That's the key thing that is missing and to solve in this crisis. Nobody wants to have a military approach happen. Even if there is an option there. It would be very, very messy. If China loses the leverage more comprehensively, they can bring this to closer to a resolution than it has been. If they are ready to take a softer tone, that potentially means things are moving in the right direction. That's why you say fire and fury in the first place. That's supposed to lead to the diplomacy and not necessarily using the stick.

BORGER: It may have scared the Chinese more than the North Koreans.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:38:55] ACOSTA: They are being hustled out of the room so we won't see more questions to the president. I know about that in those situations.

Let's talk more about this in a few minutes.

Let's take a quick break. We will talk about that and the health care news. Jimmy Kimmel dominating news in the health care debate. That's when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Keeping up the party pressure, the White House trying to get Senate Republicans over the goal line in Hail Mary effort to repeal Obamacare. President Trump tweeting, "I would not sign Graham-Cassidy if it did not include coverage for preexisting conditions. It does. Great bill. Repeal and replace."

CNN national political reporter, M.J. Lee, is in New York for us.

The president and the bill's cosponsors, M.J., they promised that preexisting conditions will be covered under this new bill, but that's not exactly right, is it?

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: The short answer is that's not true. People with preexisting conditions would not get the same levels they have under Obamacare.

This is a complicated issue that people are confused about. What would happen under Graham-Cassidy for people who have these medical conditions. It's true that insurers couldn't out reject someone for having a preexisting condition that got enshrined through Obamacare, but what they would be able to do is ask for more flexible, loosen regulations so experience companies could raise premiums for people who have medical conditions. Republican who support the Graham- Cassidy plan defended this by saying states would have to basically offer assurances that everyone gets adequate and affordable coverage, but the big red flag here or the problem here is that there is no real way to define what adequate or affordable means. As you know very well, what is adequate for one person is not adequate for somebody else who might have a lot of health issues. What is affordable for one person is not affordable for someone else who may not have the means to pay for what they need to pay for in terms of treatment or going to the doctor or the hospital.

Politically speaking, this is going to be a huge sticking point next week if there is going to be a vote. Someone like Susan Collins, for example, who raised a lot of concerns about Graham-Cassidy and when I was talking to her, she said, look, the way I see it is that this bill is just as fraught as the last bill that I voted against and had the preexisting conditions as a problem. This is a major issue and we will follow that closely if this bill does come up.

[13:45:59] ACOSTA: M.J. Lee, thank you very much for that reality check.

Let's go to Perry Bacon.

You don't have coverage if you can't afford the coverage.

PERRY BACON, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: Right.

ACOSTA: That seems to be the distinction here with the new bill.

BACON: They require to be covered, but they can charge whatever they want. So if you can't pay a huge amount, you are not covered. Talking about Jimmy Kimmel, in general celebrities I'm not sure matter that much in terms of politic, but we are talking about John McCain who follows the news carefully. I think the way he pushed back against the bill is the millions of views in his comments. He is playing a powerful and surprising role here.

ACOSTA: Let's talk about that. One of the loudest voices in oppositions to this bill is Jimmy Kimmel, and he called out Bill Cassidy, the Senator who he said broke a promise by supporting this bill. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE: When Senator Cassidy was on my show in May, he told me he believed that every American family regardless of income should be able to get quality health care. I believed he was sincere, but sadly the bill indicates that he was not sincere. Sadly, the bill he unveiled last week with Senator Lindsey Graham indicates that he was not sincere. It is by many accounts the worst health care bill yet. There is no way President Trump read this bill. He just wants to get rid of it because Obama's name on it. The Democrats should rename it Ivanka-care.

(LAUGHTER)

And guaranteed he gets on board.

I encourage people who care about this subject to call your Senators to let them know you care. I gave out a phone number.

The video of the monologue has millions of views and a lot of people have seen it and shared it. But "The New York Times" contacted the office of Susan Collins and claimed at her office the call volume she got is the same as usual. If that is true, this is why things like this keep happening. Because we don't do anything about them. Please, stop texting for five seconds and make a phone call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Gloria Borger, a little jab at all of us. Our hyper screened up world. What do you think the impact will be? It's remarkable.

BORGER: I do. I think it's remarkable. One key impact is that he took the time to explain what's in the bill. He took the time to explain the issue with preexisting conditions which is what people care about. People want to know about their health care and why this is a divisive issue. They want predictability and stability when you are talking about your own health or your children's health or spouse's health, you want to know your health care will be there. What if you happened to live in a state, for example, that decides that, OK, you are going to have to pay more if you have cancer. What does that do to you? Do you move if you can't afford your coverage?

ACOSTA: The individual states where the governors and the state legislators, if we put it all out to the states, the state lawmakers and the governors potentially impacted by the lobbying forces necessary that particular state? If you have a strong and thriving health insurance industry in Indiana, those lawmakers can be heavily influenced, and the protections in that state can be drastically different than in others.

BORGER: All the insurance companies are opposed to this. They don't want to be the bad guys in this. And they will be.

(CROSSTALK)

DEMIRJIAN: I was going to say dependent on a system that can function in those states because the federal dollars that are going to supplement the health dollars in general speaking are going down over time and may fall off the books entirely by the middle of next decade. So the question is basically what kind of system can these states put together to catch the people who get thrown off, will it be effective, if it's not effective do they end up saying, OK, we can't subsidize that so you have fewer limitations on what the insurance companies can do because it's so much in their lap. There's a lot of unanswerable questions right now because it has to go into effect for the states to kind of see what happens. But that's a very dangerous process.

[13:50:15] ACOSTA: Perry, let me ask you this. There's this conventional wisdom that if they don't keep the promise to repeal and replace Obamacare somehow their voters are going to punish them. But yet they can't get over the finish line here in terms of actually repealing and replacing Obamacare. Is it really that toxic for them if they don't take this leap?

BACON: I think there's two things we're talking about here. My understanding is a lot of the donors have said I'm not giving you money anymore if you're not getting this done. That is a problem because you need money to run election. ACOSTA: Where else will they put the money.

BACON: Right. But the voters do not feel this way. There's a lot of polling showing Republican voters do not support rolling back restrictions. Republican voters support Medicaid. So it's not just so this bill is probably we get a poll soon 20 percent, these bills have been opposed majority of the public in every instance. So I think it's always hard to explain to me why you should support a bill opposed by 80 percent of the public doesn't make a lot of political sense to me.

ACOSTA: Iowa Republican Senator Chuck Grassley had an important point on this, said the substance of the bill is less important. Here's what he said, quote, "You know, I could make give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn't be considered, but Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign."

You know, it is kind of remarkable to see it just sort of boiled down in this political essence that Chuck Grassley is boiling it down to.

DEMIRJIAN: And for a guy who's been in D.C. for as long as he has, it's very interesting that Chuck Grassley has a lot of these moments where he's brutally honest about what's going on there. He's just putting it out there.

(CROSSTALK)

DEMIRJIAN: I mean, that's basically what he said. But this is true. Look, there's been -- you had almost eight years of, you know, buildup to we're going to repeal Obamacare with no planning of what you're going to do and you have this scramble to actually get this done before they lose their parliamentary authority to do it with just 50 votes and have to actually court Democrats and what would be a very, very different bill which then probably couldn't get past the House. So this is really what's going on in the heads of lawmakers.

But to Perry's point before, I mean, yes, this has never been a very popular sort of an issue repealing Obamacare with the voters. But the question goes back to the Jimmy Kimmel question. How much are people actually paying attention this time? How much effect do these celebrities that are trying to rally the public having when the focus has not exclusively been on health care the last few weeks, and there is a fatigue about talking about this. So you're not seeing the same volume of calls and demonstrations and everything as you were the last time around.

BORGER: That's why they want to shut the window on it. They have a deadline coming up on September 30th. But only in washington, only in washington would someone say it doesn't really matter what we're voting on, we just have to get it done because we promised we would. So when they voted on it for all those seven years, they knew there wasn't going to be any result because they knew it wasn't going to go anywhere. So how do you have the United States Senator, I want to know, go out there and say it doesn't matter what's in the bill, which is effectively what he was saying. We just have to do it because we promised we would.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BORGER: That's not legislating. That's not what John McCain is talking about, by the way. He's calling for regular order. Doing this in the regular way. It may be too late for that, but isn't it better than just closing your eyes and voting?

ACOSTA: Right. And whatever happened to quote/unquote, "Chuck and Nancy."

But speaking of comments that is difficult to get your mind around, after a few weeks away from the camera, we're now seeing more on former White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, including this from ABC's "Good Morning, America." Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CO-HOST, GOOD MORNING, AMERICA: People have hard feelings towards you --

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:

UNIDENTIFIED CO-HOST, GOOD MORNING, AMERICA: -- because they feel you lied to the American people. Have you ever lied to the American people?

SPICER: I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED CO-HOST, GOOD MORNING, AMERICA: You don't think so?

SPICER: No, I don't cheat on my taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED CO-HOST, GOOD MORNING, AMERICA: Unequivocally you can say no?

SPICER: Look, again, you want to find something -- I have not knowingly done anything to do that, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I've not knowingly done that.

Gloria --

BACON: Apparently, he thinks more people came to Trump's inauguration than Obama's. I guess that's what we conclude he knows, right?

ACOSTA: I mean --

DEMIRJIAN: He was just at the Emmys giving a major wink-wink, nudge- nudge, I know I'm in on this with you. To then turn around and be like, I didn't get the joke, is a little bit strange.

BORGER: I have not knowingly is such, again, washington.

BACON: Yes, you're right.

BORGER: To the best of my recollection, I have not knowingly --

BACON: Recollection.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Yes. Not exactly a tell-all interview there.

BORGER: No. No.

ACOSTA: He wasn't telling all there.

But, Gloria, how difficult is it going to be for Sean Spicer and other figures from this administration to do this? Because we saw this so much during the first several months of this administration where, you know, they were telling us that the sky wasn't blue and that two plus two didn't equal four.

[13:55:07] BORGER: Hard. I think it's hard. I think Sean, whom we've all known for years and years and years --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: -- in many incarnations, I think he's trying to get this monkey off his back to a certain degree. And I think he's having a difficult time. And I think others might as well.

ACOSTA: All right. Much to discuss on this. We can't do it all in this hour.

But thank you all very much for that. We appreciate it. Guys, thank you.

Coming up, Hurricane Maria gaining strength again. Again, ravaging the Caribbean. What could it mean for the U.S.? We'll get the latest on the storm's track. That's coming up.

Plus, when every minute matters, the desperate race to reach survivors trapped under the rubble of a major earthquake. We've been watching this all morning. Stay with CNN as we continue to update you with our coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:59:58] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin.

And we are following breaking news involving two major natural disasters. The scope of devastation becoming more apparent by the hour. Right now, in Mexico --