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President Trump Arrives In South Korea; House Intel Committee Releases Transcript Of Carter Page's Testimony; CNN Poll Shows How Americans View Russia Investigation; Investigation Casts Shadow On Pres. Trump's Asia Trip; Trump: Texas Shooting A "Mental Health Problem" President Trump In South Korea; Election Day 2017 Tests Political Landscape Under Trump. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired November 7, 2017 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:01:59] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. It's just after midnight here on the east coast, but already Tuesday afternoon in South Korea. President Trump is there. Air Force One landed at Osan Air Base about 90 minutes ago. He then boarded a helicopter to a quick trip to Camp Humphreys where he had lunch with U.S. and Korean troops also receiving an operational briefing.
I want to bring in now CNN's Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta who is in Seoul and CNN's International Correspondent Will Ripley who is in Pyongyang, the only American network correspondent in North Korea's capital.
Hello gentlemen. Jim, you first. President Trump arrived in South Korea just a short time ago as tensions on the peninsula are high. What's the latest?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, Don, as you mentioned, he's at Camp Humphreys. He's going to be receiving an operational briefing with some military commanders at Camp Humphreys. They will be briefing the president on the situation in North Korea. Obviously, that has been escalating in terms of these tensions between the U.S. President Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un.
In that meeting right now, in that operational briefing as it's called right now, the Chief of Staff John Kelly, National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.
Don, we do expect some brief remarks to come shortly here. So, we'll be waiting to hear what the President says because so far, he hasn't said much. He is talking now. And I think we can probably listen to him for just a few moments, Don.
LEMON: Yes. Yes, we're going to listen to the President. Jim, sorry to cut you off. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the next nine days as you know, we just got back from Japan where we had a very successful two days. Today, we'll be really busy and tomorrow also. And then we head to China. And I look forward to that. There's great cooperation. We have a terrific meeting scheduled on trade in a little while with President Moon and his representatives.
And we will -- hopefully that will start working out and working out so that we create lots of jobs in the United States, which is one of the reasons, one of the very important reasons I'm here. In addition to that, we will be meeting with the various generals, General Brooks, and with various generals about the situation in North Korea. And I think we have lots of good answers to you on those early times. And ultimately, it will all work out. It has always works out. It has to work out.
So I want to thank you all for being here. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. We're going to see you in a little while. And I think about 4:30, we're going to be separately meeting with you. But we appreciate. I hope you had a good flight here. Many of you were on the flight with me. So, I know, it's pretty good.
And, I think you're probably just as impressed as I am. This is a very impressive group of people beyond facilities people, even, very impressive people. So general, thank you very much. Appreciate it, thank you.
[00:05:11] TRUMP: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So it's just holding on a little bit to see if the president want to answer to any of the reporters' questions. He is at Camp Humphreys now where he is meeting with both Japanese and American troops there on the ground. So, U.S. and Korean troops, pardon me, on the ground there.
He flew into Osan Air Bases about 90 minutes ago, boarded a helicopter. And then went on to Humphreys, Camp Humphreys. Jim Acosta, our senior White House correspondent, you were speaking before the president, sorry, I rudely interrupted you. But our President Trump is meeting with Russian president.
ACOSTA: No, that's OK.
LEMON: -- President Vladimir Putin later this week. But the president wants his help with North Korea, right?
ACOSTA: That's right. And you heard the president there just a few moments ago saying that he believes things are going to work out with the situation in North Korea. They always work out.
Don, that is not how people here in South Korea view the situation, you know, we've been talking to people on the ground here in South Korea. They have been living with this threat posed by North Korea for some time now. But what is really sort of thrown a question mark into all of this, and uncertainty into all of this is President Trump's really tough talk, this bellicose, confrontational, brinkmanship rhetoric with North Korea.
And I think its going to be very -- he mentioned this press conference that's going to be coming up in a couple of hours, Don. I think the very big question hanging over this president's trip right now is whether he engages in this kind of rhetoric that he's been engaging in so far, like referring to Kim Jong-un as rocket man and talking about the U.S. having the ability to totally destroy North Korea.
That will be something to watch because the South Korean president, President Moon, Don, is not a huge fan of that kind of rhetoric. He wants to lower the temperature here in north -- in South Korea, not raise it.
But you mentioned Vladimir Putin, that's right. That is going to be the other fascinating thing to watch in a couple of days, Don, when the President goes to Vietnam. The President said a couple of days ago that he expects to sit down with Vladimir Putin. Of course, we're all going to be talking this in the context of the Russia investigation.
But the President trying to shift of the narrative a little bit, saying, you know, he wants to talk with Putin about this issue of North Korea to see what kind of leverage the Russians can provide. Because so far, Don, and this gets into the President's next stop in China, Chinese President Xi Jinping has not been able to, in the view of this administration, been able to really change Kim Jong-un's behavior.
And so that is going to be fascinating to watch. We see President Trump and Vladimir Putin sitting down together or at least standing together talking to one another at this APEC Summit coming up in Vietnam.
Don, we're coming up on one year since the election of President Trump. And hanging over the President ever since that night, and you and I remember it well in midtown Manhattan, one year ago, this Russia investigation has just been dragging on for this president, hanging over everything that goes on with this administration.
And finally, we'll see the President Vladimir Putin face-to-face in a couple of days. He says they want to talk about North Korea. But there is so much more that we'll be reading into with body language and the statements that are made by those leaders and so on.
LEMON: Absolutely Jim. I'm going to bring in Will now. Will, you're going to be reporting from North Korea for the duration of President Trump's trip to Asia. He is just across the border from where you are standing. How is North Korea reacting to this?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you notice, Don, the president's measured tone just now with his remarks about North Korea. And he was somewhat measured when he was speaking in Japan over the past couple of days. But honestly, it may be too late from the North Korean perspective, listening to the rhetoric, leading up to the trip and more importantly for the North Koreans now, with two officials here in Pyongyang last night.
The fact that in the coming days, three U.S. aircraft carriers will be engaging in yet another round of joint naval exercises. And those are carrier strike groups with around generally 10 ships in each groups. So this is a massive show of U.S. military force happening in the pacific. And the North Koreans are watching this. And they have said, they don't like they can talk with the Trump administration. Diplomacy has completely broken down, we have that confirm from multiple sources.
And they've been saying for weeks now that they need to deliver a clear message to President Trump that they have this intercontinental ballistic missile that can deliver a nuclear warhead to the mainland in U.S. They've threatened another nuclear test possibly above ground. They've threatened a long-range missile launch.
And look, there's activity that's being detected at North Korean missile research facilities, the Watchdog Group 38 north reported new activity at the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site. Could this be the time when North Korea decides to send that strong message while President Trump is here in the region? And then what will his words be?
That's the real concern on both side of the Korean peninsula, Don, is that one misstep, one miscalculation could trigger a series of events and take this part of the world and really the whole world down a very dangerous road.
[00:10:06] LEMON: Well, how is North Korean media covering President Trump's visit?
RIPLEY: It's interesting, because they are covering if there was a new article just out today, you know, warning President Trump and the United States not to underestimate the abilities, the nuclear arsenal of North Korea. They say doing that would be a big mistake.
And yet you see the pictures in the news lately of North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un, the big headline over the weekend, he was inspecting a cosmetics factory. You can read into this but perhaps because it's been more than seven weeks since North Korea has conducted a live fire military exercise they may be trying to project to the North Korean people. But they haven't forgotten about the economy. They have told the North Korean, Kim Jong-un gave a speech about a month ago telling people in this country to brace for the impact of more sanctions.
They blame the United States for the sanctions, not the behavior of the leadership in this country. And this could be perhaps trying to let North Koreans know they're trying to develop their economy at the same time preparing them for this new round of testing that we know is going to happen eventually because North Korea said, they need to round off their nuclear program. And that means another nuclear test and more missile launches. We just don't know when and what's going to happen. How President Trump will response. LEMON: Will Ripley and Jim Acosta, thank you gentlemen. I appreciate it.
Breaking news tonight in the Russia investigation I tell you about, I want to bring in now Senior Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju. Manu?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don, a lengthy transcript released tonight by the House Intelligence Committee giving new details about a closed door testimony that happened last week with the former Trump Foreign Policy Adviser Carter Page in which he went into detail about his knowledge about Russia.
But specifically about a July 2016 trip that is under scrutiny on Capitol Hill, a trip that he took to Moscow. And these long, contended was a private trip and nothing to do with the campaign. He met with no Russian officials. But according to his testimony released tonight, he does acknowledge having an interaction with Arkady Dvorkovich who is a Russian deputy prime minister under Vladimir Putin.
Now, he also sent e-mails to the campaign about the trip, saying that he'd be willing to give them some valuable insights about the trip from people who are connected to the Russian government and senior legislators in Russia.
Now, he down played that e-mail that was revealed in this transcript, saying that, you know, some of these exchanges he had were pleasantries and some of these things that were picked up, or things that be heard in a conference that he attended. But Democrats in particular believe that he may have contradicted himself in some key areas of this testimony.
Now, what was also interesting is the level of interaction that he had with senior levels of that -- members of the Trump campaign about this trip including Hope Hicks, now communications director, Corey Lewandowski, as well as he sent an e-mail suggesting that then candidate Trump could go to Russia and deliver a speech in his place rather than Carter Page himself.
Now, Page also met with a senior energy executive at the time of that July 2016 trip, even though he has long rejected a central assertion on the so-called dossier of Trump Russia allegations that included this meeting with an energy official. It turns up he did meet with a now an energy official while he was there with one of the Russian energy giants.
Now, the question is how does this fit into the broader piece of Russia collusion allegedly with the Trump campaign. Carter Page says there was absolutely no collusion. He strenuously pushed back against that point. And also, Don, he also met with Robert Mueller recently, the special counsel, as part of his investigation. Don.
LEMON: All right, Manu Raju, thank you very much. The White House may want to pay attention to CNN's new poll about the Russia investigation. Chief National Correspondent John King has the numbers for us. John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we all know the president says Russia is a ruse, Russia is a hoax. These investigations should be about Hillary Clinton not about the Trump campaign. The American people flatly disagree with the president.
Sixty-four percent of the American people in our new CNN polling say the Russia investigations are a serious matter. Thirty-two percent, a third, thinks it's an effort to discredit the president of the United States. We polled him, Don. We know he'd be in this camp. But this is a big number. Sixty-four percent of the Americans say this is a serious matter.
Now, there's a partisan breakdown on this, most questions when you're asking polls. Ninety-one percent of Democrats say these investigations are quite a serious matter. Only 28 percent of Republicans say that. Six percent of Democrats say it's an effort to discredit the president, a much higher number nearly in seven -- nearly seven and ten Republicans look at these investigations and think, it's an effort to discredit a Republican president.
Now, of course, the American people processed this past week, two former campaign officials indicted. A third cut a plea deal with the special council. What does that mean to the American people? Well, four and ten Americans think its proof of widespread coordination between Trump campaign officials and Russian officials.
[00:15:00] Forty-four percent, a bigger number, think its proof of limited coordination. A couple of people at least in the campaign may be not widespread coordination but limited coordination. That you add those up, that's pretty big numbers of people who believe there were some coordination between the candidate Trumps campaign and the Russian government. Only six percent say there was no effort to coordinate, 11 percent say they're unsure.
Again, let's look at this by party. And on this one, the president does not get the benefit from Republicans he does on many other questions. Was there widespread coordination, more than six in 10 Democrats say, yes. But 10 percent of Republicans think there was widespread coordination. This is even more troubling for the President. Sixty-four percent of Republicans, Don, say there was limited coordination. So add that up, three out of four Republicans think the Republican candidate for president at least had limited coordination, his campaign did with Russians. That is not a good number for the President.
And one of the defining questions, did the candidate know about these contacts? Again, at least nine campaign officials are now known to have been in some contact with the Russians during the campaign, six in 10 Americans, 59 percent say yes, they believe the candidate did know about these contacts, 35 percent say no.
Here when you break it down by party people go back into their corners, 87 percent of Democrats believe candidate Trump knew, 61 percent of independents believes candidate Trump knew, only 17 percent of Republican think the candidate actually knew about what they think was at least some limited coordination between the two.
So bottom line, the American people think these investigations are serious. They want them to continue. They have belief that there was at least some coordination. And Don, where we started at the beginning, there's no doubt all these Russian investigations contributing to the president's now record low approval rating in our CNN polling.
LEMON: John King, thank you very much, coming up, new developments in the Russia investigation. A former top aide to Donald Trump set to be interviewed by investigators and the Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr. at Trump Tower before the election is speaking out.
[00:20:36] LEMON: There are new developments tonight in the Russia investigation. Let's discuss now. CNN Global Affairs Analyst David Rohde is here and Political Analyst April Ryan, White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks. Hello to both of you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for being up with us late.
David, the president may be on a trip to Asia for almost two weeks, however his troubles pier back at home haven't let up. How was the Russia investigation unfolding with the President away?
DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The latest thing is this, you know, Carter Page e-mail. For months Carter Page has been on CNN and other networks saying, you know, I had no contacts with Russian officials.
Now, these e-mails have come out showing he did have this. It looks like a much more extensive meeting with the Russian Deputy Prime Minister. It's got to frustrate Trump. And it's so many of these problems start from this administration not disclosing meetings from the beginning, you know, all the way back with, you know, Jared Kushner's meeting with the Russian banker, you know, and during the transition, Don Jr.'s meeting in June with this Russian lawyer. So this just keeps happening and in many ways it's still sort of a self- inflicted wound.
LEMON: So why do they keep lying about their meetings or omitting?
ROHDE: Omitting, I should say. It's the -- You know, I think the president sets the tone and it's sort of a very aggressive, flat out denial. And, you know, the counter punch politically works with his base, but it's not working as this story just continues to grow.
LEMON: Can you answer that question for us, April? Why do they keep omitting and what's going on here?
APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Knowingly to omit, knowingly to omit could for some mean lie. And if it is found to be pervasive, you know, you have to really wonder. I mean, you know, we are hearing so many different things about so many different people, you know. You know, we heard about Secretary Ross. I mean, you know, the question is did he tell the truth to -- in his confirmations. Now, we're hearing about this. I mean it's a pattern. And when it's a pattern, you wonder if this is pervasive and this is something that is just known practice within this camp.
It does not bode well for this administration and for this president, who really at the very beginning and up until recently said that there was no collusion and you won't find anything basically this is all made up by the Democrats. There is something here. And when you look for something, you're going to find something. It seems people are finding it. Mueller is finding something. So the question is how long and who will be involved and where will the tentacles point to in all of this.
LEMON: Yes. The President's long time adviser who served as Director of Oval Operations Keith Schiller will be interviewed tomorrow about a 2013 trip that Trump took to Moscow. This trip is the center of the allegations included in the dossier about the president. Schiller left the White House in September. What was the answer given at the time here, David?
ROHDE: Again, I sort of, you know, played down the trip, that this was, you know, not of significance. But the problem is that there is so many officials having different contacts with the Russians. There's the Papadopoulos thing. There's the Carter Page thing, so. And the point here or the point thing with the perjury that lying to FBI agents convictions that Mueller already has is it puts tremendous pressure on Schiller to speak the truth in this interview.
And that's -- you can see this is a very methodical investigation. They're scripting it well. And so, you know, step by step, you know, there can be these public statements. We can call them omissions, we can call them lies, you know, lying to an FBI agent is a crime and that's already been shown.
LEMON: Did you see there is Bloomberg did an interview with Veselnitskaya, Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met last year with Donald Trump, and other senior members of the Trump campaign. And she said that Donald Trump suggested a review of a sanctions law. The explanation of the meeting has changed several times, but she went a bit further in this interview. What do you think of this new information?
ROHDE: It's another, you know, more proof of not being truthful about these meetings.
LEMON: And the willingness too --
ROHDE: Yes. I mean it's what April said. There's a pattern here.
LEMONL: If her account is true.
ROHDE: I mean its either you know, this incredibly combative, you know, and this willingness to sort of twist the truth and hide things, you know, just a style a politics that I think will come back to haunt them or there really is collusion here, because it's incredible how week after week there's some new information coming out about communication and offer some sort of quid pro quo happening that they keep denying but the revelations keep happening.
[00:25:14] LEMON: April, let's talk about the president's approval rating. It says that the lowest point overall, just 36 percent say, that they approve the way Trump is handling his job as President. How does the White House explain those low poll numbers which have been consistent throughout his presidency?
RYAN: Well, they are very reactionary and deflective. You know, they're blaming it on the Russia investigation. They're blaming it on Democrats. And it's interesting, Democrats who are trying to come up with some wins, particularly in the gubernatorial races in New Jersey and Virginia, they're blaming everything on the reactionary president for all the problems that we're having. But this president is trying to find his way out. And he is doubling down with his base.
And when it comes time to talk to his base, to galvanize them, he hits with topics that really resonate with them. The confederacy, issues of race, I mean, the NFL with taking any or be at Charlottesville. This President knows what strikes the cord of the "forgotten man", the uneducated or those who have not attended college, white male who feels that they're on the fringe and not touched by any form of government. And this President has reached out to them.
So his numbers are low, but he keeps doubling down. But we've not seen kryptonite yet for this President to make him go out for the count. He continues to rebound some kind of way. But the question is how often can he do this in the midst of this Russia investigation and just the divisions that's going on in this country.
LEMON: Thank you, April. Thank you, David. I appreciate it. When we come back we're live in South Korea, where President Trump is meeting with government and military officials.
Also ahead, two of the deadliest mass shootings in modern American history happening less than two months apart. Again, we ask will it lead to changes in politics or with gun safety.
[00:31:08] LEMON: We're standing by for President Trump's arrival at the Blue House, the official residence of the South Korean president. But first, President Trump calls the deadly shooting in Texas a mental health problem, not a gun situation. Is he right about that?
Let's discuss. Joining me now is Senior Political commentators, Keith Boykin, Alice Stewart and Margaret Hoover.
Hello to both of you, let's say good evening, depending on where you're watching. It's good morning here on the eastern --
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening, good night.
LEMON: Twenty six people are dead. And that is when the news started to come over this weekend, I mean this is just unbelievable. Here we go again. Twenty more are wounded. It was modern America's deadliest shooting attack, Keith, since last month. President Trump has had to deal with these issues. He's in Japan now. He was asked about this attack in Japan this morning and here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that mental health is your problem here. This was a very based on preliminary reports, very deranged individual, a lot of problems over a long period of time. We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries, but this isn't a guns situation.
I mean, we could go into it, but it's a little bit soon to go into it. But fortunately, somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposite direction, otherwise it would have been as bad as it was. It would have been much worse. But this is a mental health problem at the highest level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Look, I certainly don't think anyone would deny that this guy had some issues, right, some mental health issues. But do you think that this is the major issue with this situation, with these situations?
KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, because even if he did have mental health issues he still had a gun that killed 26 people including 12 children. And the idea that the President is saying, it's too soon to talk about this as a gun issue and then he goes into his counter gun issue is contradictory.
I mean, this is the same script we go through every time there's a mass shooting. We went through after Las Vegas, 58 people were shot there and the same thing we heard over and over again, it's too soon to talk about politics. It's too soon to talk about guns.
Yet when we had an attack here in New York City just one week ago, immediately the President was calling for a change in the U.S. government policy. He's calling for ending the diversity of visa program. We saw people on the Hill calling for policy changes. We can't start treating these things differently.
If it's a Muslim attacker or a white man who is attacking, it doesn't make a difference. The American people are still being attacked and we need to respond and do something, not just sweep it under the rock.
LEMON: Do you think this is domestic terrorism?
BOYKIN: Yes, it's domestic terrorism.
LEMON: Go ahead, Allison.
STEWART: As you indicated, this shooter had a history of problems, animal abuse, domestic abuse, even his step child fractured his skull and had served time in the military in the brink for domestic abuse. And here was where the failure lies. He was discharged from the military. He had served time for domestic abuse. That should have been reported by the Air Force to the National Crime Information Center that should have been a red flag. He never would have been able to purchase the guns that he bought.
If that loophole had not been dropped, it's not a problem with the law. This is a problem with the system here. The failure in the system is what got the guns in his hands in the first place.
And yes, mental health is an issue. He did have mental health issues. He does have problems with regard to his anger at society, anger at his family and wanting to act out on that. So I think that is a key issue here. He shouldn't have had those guns, but it's not because the laws were not in place, it's because of a failure in the system.
LEMON: But is it a common denominator here, the gun?
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, but do you want to get rid of the second amendment? I mean, literally there is no silver bullet to this problem, Don, unless you get rid of the second amendment.
HOOVER: I'm not --
[00:35:01] LEMON: Margaret, I know, but everyone says everyone, that seems extreme to me. Whenever we have a discussion about what people say, you want to get rid of this (INAUDIBLE).
HOOVER: No, no but here's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is this is a, as we all know, because we have seen way too many of these incidences over the course of the last decade and more. And I am not going to sit here and use the argument that if you get rid of, you know, we should be Australia. I'm also not going to do the inverse.
What I do want to just encourage us to do is have a sophisticated, complicated, or a conversation that can tolerate the nuance and the difficulty of this policy question. Because it's not just about taking guns away from people, it's not just about mental health, it's not just about anyone of these things. It is -- there is not a silver bullet for this challenge.
LEMON: But here's -- all right, here's the thing, here's the thing --
HOOVER: That is reasonable, it should have does have a second amendment.
LEMON: I think we agree at some level that my -- I don't understand because I've, listen, I've been here, what, 12 years at CNN and then before that at other networks. I've been doing this for a long time. It's always a circular argument.
LEMON: The argument is always if you want it -- if you --
HOOVER: It's circular, let it be circular.
LEMON: Right. But if you want to have the discussion that we're having, then automatically a certain group goes to you want to get rid of the second amendment. That's not it.
HOOVER: But that's what you're doing with mental health.
LEMON: I think people -- no, but I think people want to sit down and discuss what is going on with our gun laws, what's happening with the mental health, what -- or how much --
HOOVER: Let's talk about mental health in a real way.
LEMON: What caliber weapons should people, should people be allowed to have, like we can discuss those things without anti second amendment.
HOOVER: Yes. I totally agree.
LEMON: You can be total --
BOYKIN: But Margaret you just said that you wanted to have a conversation that's sophisticated and nuanced and then your first response to Don's question --
HOOVER: But no, no, no.
BOYKIN: Wait, your first response to Don's question was whether your fictitious (ph) or not.-
HOOVER: So that to make (inaudible) point though.
BOYKIN: Your first response was do you want to get rid of the second amendment? That's not a nuance or sophisticated argument.
HOOVER: Yes, but -- correct then and I proceeded to have that conversation. So let me have the more complicated conversation.
BOYKIN: In order to have a complicated conversation, we have to allow each other speak too. And if you're going to have that conversation then let's talk about how do we proceed forward and regardless of whether you are pro gun or anti-gun, we understand we have a second amendment that hasn't been changed yet. As long as it still in place, what can we do together? That's not correct those -- those talking points over and over.
HOOVER: Totally. But, you know, who is doing in a rhetorical point.
BOYKIN: Yes but I mean --
HOOVER: And we're actually, I mean we've sat here on this panel a lot of times, you know that's not where I go but like that was the beginning of that conversation. We do want to have a more complicated.
BOYKIN: OK. So what --
LEMON: Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Can we do that after the break because I want to do something and it is very important here? And when we come back and we're going to finish our discussion after the break. But, so everyone stay with me.
I was just want to take a moment to remember the victims of this really horrific shooting. The gunman in Sutherland at Springs, Texas took the lives of 26 innocent people, worshipping inside their church on an autumn Sunday. The youngest victim was a 17-year -- 17-month- old girl. The oldest was a 77-year-old.
Lula White was a grandmother of the shooter's wife. Friends say she often volunteered of the First Baptist Church. Annabelle Pomeroy was the daughter of the church pastor, she was 14 years old. Haley Krueger was a 16-year old. Her mother says, Haley wanted to be a nurse. Richard Rodriguez along with his wife Theresa, they were married 11 years. Robert and Shani Corrigan, a couple originally from Michigan.
[00:38:17] Eight members of the Holcombe family were killed. Bryan Holcombe, the visiting pastor, his wife Karla, their son Danny. Danny's 17-month old daughter, Noah, the Holcombe's daughter-in-law Crystal, who was pregnant. Three of Crystal's five children were also killed, Emily, Megan, and Evelin Hill. And there's Tara Elyse McNulty, close down with friend of the Holcombe's.
LEMON: These are live picture. This is South Korea where President Trump is set to meet with top officials today. We're keeping an eye on that, but we're back now with Keith Boykin, Alice Stewart and Margaret Hoover. We're having an interesting conversation, very animated conversation talking about the second amendment and guns.
HOOVER: Well, we are actually talking about the really complex problems behind mental health that I don't think the president got to in his commentary about mental health. But that should be part of what we discuss when we discuss these shootings and when we discuss the national policy to confront a real epidemic of people that do have mental illness. One in five individuals that are incarcerated are have severe mental illness.
I mean, the chances that you're going to be in jail with sever mental illness rather than a hospital bed are ten times greater. There is not good national policy confronting the challenges that mentally ill people face. And then when you add mental illness with the second amendment, you have real recipe for disaster.
LEMON: I just have to say, I live in a big city, and I've lived in a number of big cities before and I see people walking around. I see people talking to themselves. You know, I have some people who -- I know people who have mental illness. They don't have access to guns. They don't have guns and that I mean, let's just -- that makes --
HOOVER: If you have access to guns it's an honor but you do have access to guns --
LEMON: But two things, but the majority of mentally ill people are not violent. I mean, they're not --
HOOVER: Of course not.
LEMON: They're not in possession of a gun.
HOOVER: That is true and that there's no need -- it is important to have a nuanced conversation or not, shame people with mental illness. There's no reason also to have a like a national registry --
LEMON: But I feel like that's what we're doing.
HOOEVER: -- and that's all right. That's not.
LEMON: That's what we're doing thing it's mental health issue.
HOOVER: Well, no, mental health is a broad term, right?
BOYKIN: Yes and I don't want to stigmatize people who are mental ill.
HOOVER: Nor do I.
BOYKIN: But I do want to say that that is an issue that we should be discussing as well as the issue of guns. And what happens often is that we use mental health as a pivot point to avoid the discussion about guns. So we say let's talk about mental health issues, let's talk about other issues. Let's talk about anything other than guns.
The problem is, we have people who have mental health issues, who are violent, some of them and not all of them, not even most of them, a small percentage of them.
[00:45:04] And when they do engage in some sort of criminal behavior immediately we want to stigmatize that group or avoid the discussion about the weapons that they were using to commit their crimes.
Let's talk about the weapons that anyone has access to use in this country and how we can make it safer countries for people that are not as easily obsess by these weapons are not as easily --
LEMON: We can't even get anything on bump stocks after, right?
STEWART: Well, I think that's an important thing to bring up in that the conversations after Las Vegas was the bump stock mechanism should not be used, it's extremely dangerous and there's a lot of pushed back. Even some second amendment supporters said let's have a conversation about that. Chuck Grassley has said he's going to hold a hearing on that in the next week or so. So we are seeing some progress with regard to --
BOYKIN: Really? LEMON: So those second amendment supporters, sensible gun safety laws, they support sensible gun safety laws. And isn't like -- I think it's like 80 or so percent of gun owners support gun safety laws.
STEWART: I'm sure they support gun safety laws. They support gun safety overall. And certainly wise gun -- the use of guns. And look, I think it's important we look at each and every one of these tragic massacres in a different situation. They're all caused by different reasons. The motivations are much different and the cause and effect are much different. I think we're going to move the ball down the field with regards to
BOYKIN: I don't think ...
LEMON: Hold on. Hold on. I'm glad you said that. Because of one common denominator is what?
STEWART: It is someone who is angry, someone -- the guns don't --
LEMON: It's the gun.
HOOVER: They're all men. They're all the man Don.
HOOVER: Every single one of these people have been men, that's it. You know what, eliminate --
BOYKIN: But men with what?
LEMON: With guns. With it's gun. The one common denominator is this gun and everyone keeps saying ignore that but I'd say --
BOYKIN: We had a terrorist attack in New York City last week and the guy had a Paintball gun and a rental truck. He ran over some people with the rental truck. He didn't kill 26 people. He didn't kill 58 people. He could have killed a lot more if he had access to a deadly weapon like a gun.
And I think that we have to really start to think, even if he had mental issues and we don't know if he did or didn't, but that's even the point. We have to think how do we keep these guns out of people's hands who don't need them?
STEWART: Right. So why didn't you -- why don't --
HOOVER: In the beginning, we have laws on the books that we're not enforcing. I mean, this is another element, right? So, there are multiple things that we forgot here --
LEMON: But there's another reason why we should be sitting or having this debate in sensible debate instead of saying do you want to get rid of the second amendment, no, no.
(CROSSTALK) BOYKIN: I agree. I agree.
STEWART: The common denominator is guns. Look New York last week, the rental car, what are we going to do, ban rental vehicles.
BOYKIN: That's not the point. The solution was to ban diversity Visa entries.
HOOVER: That's something he's always talks about and it was a timely --
BOYKIN: But he was going to talked about that immediately after the terrorist attack and here, again, even today when he's over there in Korea and he's saying let this too soon to talk about guns.
LEMON: By the way, back in February, President Trump signed a bill overwriting an Obama Air Regulation and that keeping guns out of the hands of those with mental illness. So if mental illness is the main reason here for these shootings, was that a bad idea for him to do that?
[00:48:09] Let's answer right after the break. We'll be back. We'll come right back.
And take a look at the live pictures now. We're standing by live in South Korea where President Trump is set to meet soon with South Korea's president.
And so, meanwhile, let's talk about this. Back at the ranch, at least back at home, it is Election Day. And there are a couple key races. So we got some key races in Virginia, New Jersey, and on and on.
So what do you think key races tomorrow, what do you expect?
STEWART: I think the big take away race will be race tomorrow will Virginia governor's race. I think it's -- Northam has been up. He is up by about three points --
LEMON: He's a Democrat.
STEWART: He's a Democrat. But Gillespie has a lot of good support. The conservatives are really rallying behind. The Democrats shot themselves in the foot with the really bad ad. So it really energized conservatives. I think Gillespie is going to pull out as quicker.
In New Jersey, that will be a good race to think who can beat -- take over Chris Christie seat. Clearly, Murphy a Democratic is double digits ahead. He has been far ahead quite some time. I think he will come on top.
And there's another big one out in Utah. Our third congressional district replaces Jason Chaffetz and the mayor of their own (ph).
LEMON: So in Virginia, if Democrat doesn't win there, is that big trouble for the Democrats?
BOYKIN: I don't think that's big trouble. Virginia is a purple state. It's a complex state. Terry McAuliffe is the current governor there as a Democrat. Bob McDonnell is Republican who is a governor before that. It goes back and forth. It swings.
I think what's interesting in Virginia is that we also have a chance -- Virginia has a chance to elect its first African-American lieutenant governor. First African-American to hope, to win statewide office since Doug Wilder in 1989, when he was elected governor.
So I think it's going to be promising there for Democrats. There's a big turnout push for people of color right now, it's a little late, but still it's happening. They're also -- they're running against the Trump Charlottesville clan. You know, there's a lot of people that are concerned about Charlottesville and they're coming out to vote because of that. And it's also issue of Gillespie running these racist ads against Latinos and Hispanics.
And I think a lot of people upset about that, that's going to turnout some vote.
LEMON: We've been here a couple nights late into the midnight hour covering these races and many of them are seeing or the one that -- the once that we covered as a referendum on the Trump presidency. Do you think that's the same thing happens tomorrow or today?
HOOVER: Well, I mean, this is what -- this is, you know, the danger of the take away from tomorrow or, you know, potentially what could happen and what I look to is, you know, what's happening on the Democratic side and what you see what's happening on the Democratic side in Virginia is Democrats are falling away from their candidate. I mean, they sort of fled, they've stop expending money and in progressives have disassociated from him to --
[00:55:05] LEMON: Gillespie has the momentum.
HOOVER: And there's, I think there's a real question about sort of, if this place to a national level, you know, we can rally against Trump people. We can run against Trump people and the Donald Trump, but if there's no candidate to confront Trump in four years in 2020, Trump could very well have another four years.
And even with polling as bad it is, as bad as it is, and the economy as good. I mean because Donald Trump transforming right now to be clear as the worst of any first term president (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: Thirty six percent is a new CNN Poll. Thirty six percent approved, 58% disapproved.
HOOVER: But, you know, the economy is doing OK, if the economy continues OK, Donald Trump could very well walk in (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: But that's a point of, that's a point though and you're talking about Terry McAuliffe who, you know, there's acquaintance (ph), it was -- everyone is like the economy to economy stupid, right?
STEWART: Well in that -- it's true and that was a focus of the campaign. I think the Republican Gillespie done a wise job, given Trump's poll numbers there, he hasn't brought him in to campaign for him. Hasn't asked first endorsement, hasn't included him in his campaign and so far that's been to his benefit. And it is a blue state.
LEMON: Very quick, quick, I got to go.
BOYKIN: Trump tweeted today that the economy has been horrible in Virginia since Terry McAuliffe takeover. The unemployment rate in Virginia is 3.7 percent, it's lower than national average and it's lower than it was when the Republicans were been charge.
LEMON: Right. Thank you all.
HOOVER: Thanks, Don.
STEWART: Thank you.
BOYKIN: Thank you.
LEMON: See you next time. That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. Our live coverage picks up next with Anna Coren in South Korea and John Vause in L.A.