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Mueller Calls for More Russia-Related Documents from Trump Campaign, Senate Judiciary Wants More from Kushner; Shouting Match Erupts in Senate Over GOP's Tax Bill; New Allegations Interior Secretary Zinke Chartered Private Travel on Taxpayers' Dime. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 17, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:32:53] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The special counsel, Robert Mueller, is turning up the heat on the Trump campaign. He issued a subpoena for more Russia-related documents because he doesn't think they turned over everything. The Senate Judiciary Committee is asking Jared Kushner to turn over more documents as well. Records released by others in the campaign shows Kushner received and forwarded e-mails about WikiLeaks and a so-called Russian backdoor overture and dinner invites. They say those e-mails were not included in the batch Kushner turned over. And they and to know why and if there is anything else Kushner left out.

Let's bring back our panel.

Laura, what do you make of the new subpoena from Robert Mueller and the implication of Kushner's failing to turn over the other e-mails to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm surprised the record keeps skipping of Kushner. Why is there a trickling down of information about whether or not you handed over comprehensive information? On the other hand, one of the greatest things about the Mueller probe is the grand jury. They have subpoena power. The purpose is to be able to get information and get the documents and get witnesses to come in and testify. As you are wrapping up any grand jury investigation, you want to capitalize the availability of that subpoena power. This could be a cleanup measure to say I want to make sure we are capitalizing and get everything we need. It may or may not be a reflection of everything they have. It may more be they want to get the subpoena power to be comprehensive. This is a pattern that invites so much scrutiny and speculation and frankly this selective amnesia that keeps happening in light of the controversies, WikiLeaks this past week with Donald Trump Jr, this is not a novel concept. You think, oh, WikiLeaks was a problem a couple of days ago. I remember this conversation in my own life. And surprisingly failed to do so.

BLITZER: Rick, I have the letter from the chairman, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee. People you know, Chuck Grassley is the Republican and Dianne Feinstein, the Democrat. It's a tough letter to Abbe Lowell, the lawyer representing Jared Kushner. I'll read one line to you: "Other parties have produced documents concerning a "Russian-backdoor overture or dinner invite, which Mr. Kushner also forwarded." And they say why department you forward them?"

[11:35:20] RICK SANTORUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: His lawyer maintains they produced everything. I don't understand it. It makes all the sense in the world, if you are under this type of investigation. He's a seasoned guy and turning more over as opposed to less. I just don't get it.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: It does raise, David, suspicions that it's not the first time there have been at least three or four or five other cases that are supposed to be handed over. Eventually they were handed over.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: A series of revelations that we can't, sitting here, put together and make a determination about. But what we know is there is a revelation after the administration, writ large, said, nothing here, no collusion or cooperation. Russia was nothing. That thing? That's nothing. That's nothing either. The real problem is, from the very top, the president of the United States said it's a joke. It's a hit job by the Democrats. Where is the pressure down the line for people to be transparent about what contacts they had, innocuous of not? Rick, Abbe Lowell, I know, Jamie Gorella (ph) represented Jared Kushner. These are fine lawyers. And there could be lapses with the lawyers with disclosure or there could bad clients who are not putting over what they ought to.

BLITZER: It's interesting, Ana, because Senator Lindsey Graham just issued another statement saying, "President Trump has a blind spot when it comes to Russia and he can't figure out why."

Can you?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Maybe because they have something on him? It leads to speculation and the constant and consistent way that Donald Trump deals with Russia and these investigations leads to questions that are led to be answered. They are trying to work with Trump. Trump doesn't have a blind spot when it comes to Russia, but his relatives. I'm not sure that in any other pedestrian, they would be allowed to stay? The inner circle of the White House with the amount of lapses, lies, lack of disclosure that this young man has exhibited. He is either lying or has the worst case of early on set memory loss that we have seen in history. He should go to a doctor.

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: I believe that Donald Trump is acting the way he is, because I don't believe he believes there was any Russian collusion. I don't think he was involved in any of it, and probably knew nothing about it. For him to react this way, given his reactions on other things whether they were true or not in this case, I think he feels he did nothing wrong. He knew nothing about it and he is reacting accordingly. I think the opposite. If there was something there, I don't think he would be.

NAVARRO: You think when he called out on Russia to look out for the 33,000 e-mails of Hillary that was just a coincidence?

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: If I was colluding with the Russians, the last thing I would be talking about is colluding with the Russians.

GREGORY: You may be right. That would still be inappropriate because there was a crime close to him. And he's saying the whole thing is a joke.

SANTORUM: I accept that as a possibility, but I think he doesn't see it that way.

COATES: The fact there's no "there" there is one you can use in a tag line, but it's no one that's not going to placate Robert Mueller or a special counsel. When you me not to picture an elephant, the only thing I can picture is elephant. I invite scrutiny and speculation. And the magnifying glass on the inner circle of Trump gets bigger and bigger because of self-inflicted wounds. Remember, a lot of people do. And it would be so silly if one were involved in collusion. You overestimate the logic of someone who is an alleged criminal. Mueller's team and special counsel, their entire job is to find out about the moments of stupidity.

BLITZER: We'll wrap this up. Our Jeremy Diamond just got a statement from Ty Cobb, the president's personal attorney, saying this: "The president is paying his own legal fees, as was always his preference. He doesn't want to deplete any funds that may be available to assist current and former staffers. The administration and others are working with the Office of Government of ethics and tax specialists to create a lawful mechanism for payment of fees for staffers. It is expected to be operational shortly."

That statement from the president's lawyer, Ty Cobb.

Everybody stand by.

There's much more happening, including some fireworks on Capitol Hill.

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[13:40:04] SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D), OHIO: How many times do we do this before we learn this?

(GAVEL BANGING)

SEN. ORRIN HATCH, (R-UT), CHAIRMAN, SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE: Listen, I've honored you by allowing you to spout off here. What you said was not right.

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BLITZER: Two Senators fighting over the Republican tax bill. Who is right? We will check the facts.

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BLITZER: Senate Republicans are one step closer with their tax bill. The Finance Committee advanced the plan. But not before concerns over tax cuts erupted into a shouting match. Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown, of Ohio, accused Republicans of only trying to cut taxes for the rich. That was the last straw for Republican Senator, Orrin Hatch.

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[11:45:00] BROWN: I just think it would be nice just tonight before we go home to acknowledge this tax cut really is. It's not for the middle class. It's for the rich. The whole thing about higher wages is a good selling point, but companies don't just give away higher wages. They just don't because they have more money. Corporations are sitting on a lot of profits. I don't see wages going up. Spare us the bank shots. Spare us the sarcasm and the satire.

(CROSSTALK)

HATCH: I'm going to say to you that I come from poor people. I have been here working my whole stinking career for people who don't have a chance. And I really resent anybody saying I'm just doing this for the rich. Give me a break. I think you guys overplay that all the type and it gets old. Frankly, you ought to quit it.

BROWN: Mr. Chairman, the public believes it.

HATCH: I'm not through.

BROWN: OK.

HATCH: I'm get kind of sick and tired of it. It's not true. It's a nice political play.

BROWN: Well, Mr. Chairman --

HATCH: It's not true.

BROWN: -- with all due respect, I get sick and tired of the richest people --

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Mr. Chairman.

BROWN: -- in the country getting richer and richer.

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Regular order, Mr. Chairman.

BROWN: -- and the middle class --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: We do a tax cut --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Regular order.

BROWN: -- over and over again. Over and over again. How many times do we do this before we learn?

(GAVEL BANGING)

HATCH: Listen! I've honored you by allowing you to spout off here. What you said was not right. That's all I'm saying.

I come from the lower middle class originally. We didn't have anything. So don't spew that stuff on me. I get a little tired of that crap.

Let me say something. If we brought together, we could pull this country ought of every mess it's in. We could do a lot of things you are talking about, too. I have a reputation of having worked together --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Let's start with CHIP.

HATCH: I'm not starting with CHIP. I have done it for years. I've more bills --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Start with CHIP today.

HATCH: I have more bills passed than everybody on this committee put together. They have been passed for the benefit of people in this country.

Now all I can say is, I like you personally very much, but I'm telling you, this bull crap that you guys throw out here gets old after a while. To do it at the end of this is just not right. I just -- it takes a lot to get me worked up like this.

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BLITZER: CHIP, by the way, is the Children's Health Insurance Program.

Senator Brown, by the way, wasn't finished. Tweeting this morning, quote, "People deserve to know what's in the committee bill passed late last night. Instead of taking our amendments to cut taxes for the middle class, it takes away health care and raises premiums and cuts Medicare, all to pay for tax cuts for corporations."

Let's bring in our congressional reporter, Lauren Fox, to talk about this tax plan that just passed the committee in the Senate.

It's Senator Brown, correct? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's two things this

bill does that Democrats say are bad for the middle class. It repeals the individual mandate. And the official score keepers in Congress, it gets a little complicated, scored that as a tax increase on the lowest income Americans in the country. The reason for that is if you take away the requirement that people have health insurance, they won't be getting it. They won't get the tax subsidy. They will see a tax increase. Republicans argue that's a major problem because if they are not getting tax, they are choosing not to have health insurance, that's not really a tax increase.

The other major thing is a lot of tax cuts sunset for the middle class. Republican say, again, look, Republicans and Democrats are never going to actually let the tax cuts expire for the middle class. But Democrats say unless you are in power, how do you know?

BLITZER: They sunset or lapse after 10 years, but a lot of the big taxes for corporations, for example, continue indefinitely.

FOX: Yes, that's right.

BLITZER: That's a big issue.

Lauren, thanks very much for that.

Coming up, new allegations against the Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, for chartering private travel on the taxpayers' dime. We have details. Stay with us.

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[13:53:33] BLITZER: A watch dog agency is slamming the Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke for his agency's record keeping, or lack thereof. He's under investigation for using noncommercial aircraft, and who paid for his wife to accompany him on official travel.

Our CNN correspondent, Tom Foreman, is following the story for us.

So what is happening? What's the latest?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The fundamental issue here is, are these cabinet members using private flights when they can get a commercial flight? And secondarily, are they doing it for actual business or pretending they are going for business and using it for private travel or fundraising or something else?

In the case of Secretary Zinke, take a look at the numbers, at least three charter flights, several uses of military and government aircraft. So far, the cost is close to $72,000 in taxpayer money that he's spent this way.

He has been very bullish saying, look, "It's a bunch of B.S.," to quote him, to say there's no problem here. And listen to his explanation how he gets this cleared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RYAN ZINKE, INTERIOR SECRETARY: Every time I travel, I submit the travel plan to the Ethics Department that evaluates it line by line to make sure that I'm above the law. And I follow the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:54:52] FOREMAN: So that's the end of September. He's saying every time he travels, it's well documented.

But now look at what his own department's inspector general is saying in this memo she put out. Mary Kendall is saying, "Our investigation has been delayed by absent or incomplete documentation for several pertinent trips and a review process that failed to include proper documentation and accountability."

Some of the secretary's staff over there is trying to say basically this is a messy situation left over from Obama administration, not our fault, it's going to be accounted for and it's all OK. But this has been a persistent problem for these cabinet members. We know that Tom Price was booted out of this basically around the time this investigation started. Scott Pruitt, Steve Mnuchin, all of these folks have had questions raised about them and those questions are not going away on commercial or private flights -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I think they would be more cautious in doing private charters --

FOREMAN: One would think

BLITZER: -- because of all the commotion generated.

Tom Foreman, thanks very much.

President Trump blasting Senator Al Franken over his sexual harassment scandal, but still silent on the multiple sexual accusations against Republican Senate candidate in Alabama, Roy Moore. The latest when we come back.

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