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Trump Backs Accused Sex Assaulter, Citing His Denial; Senator: Cohn Faked Bad Connection To Get Off Trump Call; Senate Judiciary Responds To Kushner Lawyer's Attack; Interview with Sen. Chris Coons; Daring Defection from North Korea; Parasites Found in North Korean Defector; Trump Endorses Moore. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 22, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:14] JIM SCUITTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, wherever you're watching around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

The President of the United States endorsing an accused child molester for the U.S. Senate, question now is, will some Republicans fight back if Roy Moore wins?

Escape from North Korea, incredible video of a defector running for his life. Shot in the back all in a daring attempt to cross into South Korea. We'll see what happened to him.

And Jared Kushner's lawyer accuses Senate investigators of playing gotcha games in the Russia investigation. One of those senators will join me live to respond.

Well, President Trump has never been shy about sharing his opinion, but for 12 days he mostly dodged questions on GOP Senate candidate for Alabama, Roy Moore. That changed with dramatic effect on Tuesday with a startling presidential endorsement for a man accused of sexual assault by women when they were teens.

Several women have come forward. One of them says she was just 14 years old at the time. The President, however, dismissing their accounts in favor of Moore's denials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Roy Moore denies it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the women? What about the nine women?

TRUMP: And by the way, he gives a total denial. And I do have to say, 40 years is a long time. He's run eight races and this has never come up, so 40 years is a long time. The women are Trump voters. Most of them are Trump voters. All you can do is you have to do what you have to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCUITTO: CNN Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in West Palm Beach where the President is spending his holidays at Mar-a-Lago resort. Jeff, you've been reporting this out. You're learning that this was a deliberate decision by the President himself?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was indeed, Jim. This is something that the President I am told has been talking about for the last several days inside the west-wing with his advisers.

As so much else has been playing out on the national stage about these allegations of sexual misconduct, about these allegations of sexual abuse, this is something that the situation changed from 12 days or so ago at least in the eyes of the President in terms that it became muddled with all the noise and confusion.

And he also -- I am told, you know, saw some similarities to his own presidential campaign, saw similarities to the own accusations that were made against him which he denied, of course, back in 2016.

But Jim, more importantly than anything else, this is politics. The White House certainly wants to keep that seat in Republican hands. And they also saw that Roy Moore was not going anywhere, that he was defiant and he was standing firm. So despite what the Republican establishment was doing, everyone urging him to drop out of the race.

The President sided with his base and they really did something that was probably expected all along. He decided to try and split the difference here, but by going with Roy Moore, he keeps his base -- he keeps himself, rather, on the same side as some of his supporters down in Alabama and elsewhere, Jim.

SCUITTTO: Well, going with Roy Moore and dismissing the accounts of those women. Jeff Zeleny following the President, thanks very much.

Let's get some perspective on all of these from Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He joins me now live from Wilmington. Senator, thanks for taking the time during the Thanksgiving holiday.

I'd like to ask your reaction to this remarkable statement from the President, in effect, not only saying that he backs Roy Moore for the seat, but saying in effect that he dismisses the accounts of these women in favor of Roy Moore's denials?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, Jim, there have been a number of striking developments in recent days about a very senior figures in entertainment and in politics around allegations of sexual abuse and sexual harassment. And it's my hope that our country is on the verge of a real reckoning with what is a long and tragic history of widespread misbehavior by men in various professional settings.

Obviously, our President is someone who in the course of his campaign was accused by many women of sexual abuse and was caught on tape bragging about a sexual assault incident. So I'm struck that he's choosing to weigh-in to this particular matter. As for Roy Moore, as the vice chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee, I shouldn't comment on anything specific to Mr. Moore because he may well end up in a matter that may at some point come before the Ethics Committee.

SCUITTO: Let me ask you this. Did you have heard some Republicans say that, "Well, let him win the election and then we'll expel him and then the Republican governor of Alabama can appoint a Republican replacement." They get their Republican senator. They get their vote for tax reform, et cetera.

But is there -- and I know you're a Democrat, but speaking to your Republican colleagues, is there talk of that or plans being made to do that if Moore is to win the seat?

COONS: Well, Jim, I think there is Supreme Court precedent that makes it fairly clear that unless there is some disqualification of someone who is elected -- duly elected by a state will be seated.

[13:05:06] At that point, there may then be an Ethics Committee process, so I shouldn't comment any further.

SCIUTTO: OK. Well, let's talk about tax reform because clearly -- that the President's stating quite clearly that in effect, he's choosing tax reform as the priority here saying he needs that vote. We heard Kellyanne Conway set that up the day before.

As you're watching votes there and we've had a couple folks come out, for instance, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska saying now that she supports the mandate being repealed as part of this tax reform bill. As you're counting votes, do you believe the Republicans have the votes to pass this tax plan as it stands?

COONS: Well, as it was with health care reform with ACA replace and repeal back in August, I think this will be a very close vote. It will be a squeaker. I've heard from a number of Republican colleagues, friends, that they have real concerns about blowing up the deficit and the debt.

This bill is projected to add at least $1.5 trillion to America's debt. And there's a number of folks I think in both parties who would far prefer to do a deficit neutral tax bill that would lower corporate rates, that would increase investment in infrastructure, that would expand child tax credits, do a number of things that could command real bipartisan support.

If Republicans continue to insist on moving ahead with a Republican only budget buster bill, I think it will be very close and it may well fail in the end.

SCUITTO: Let me ask you this. Your fellow senator from Delaware gave us his insight just a short time ago into a meeting between White House officials and senate Democrats. Senator Tom Carper, rather, saying on our air that the President called into the meeting from his Asia trip. And that Carper says as the President was doing more talking than listening, he gave this advice to Economic Adviser Gary Cohn. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM CARPER (D), DELAWARE: And I said, Gary, why don't you do this? Why don't you just take the phone from, you know, your cell phone back and just say, Mr. President, you're brilliant. And -- but we're losing contact and I think we're going to lose you now, so goodbye. And that's what he did and he hung up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying Gary Cohn faked a bad connection to get the President off the phone?

CARPER: Well, I wouldn't -- I don't want to throw him under the bus, but yes.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SCUITTO: Well, definitive account there. I believe you were in that meeting as well. What did you hear?

COONS: Well, Jim, there were a dozen Democratic senators who came in good faith to have a conversation with Gary Cohn and Marc Short about how we might find a bipartisan path forward on tax reform.

I appreciated that the President took the time to call in to our meeting. And I'll say it's accurate that the President talked a great deal and there were a number of us who had suggestions we wanted to make about ways we could move towards bipartisan path on tax reform.

SCUITTO: I want to turn now, if I can, to the Russia investigation. The attorney for senior White House adviser, Jared Kushner, he is accused the Senate Judiciary Committee of -- in his words, playing a gotcha game.

This even as Kushner is accused again of not revealing documents, meetings, et cetera, that he's been asked for. You, of course, is a member of the Judiciary Committee. What's your response to Kushner's lawyers claim?

COONS: Jim, this is just the latest in a series of events where senior officials in the Trump administration initially claimed that they have had no contact whatsoever of any kind with Russians. Then when reminded or informed of information about specific meetings with Russians, they say, "Oh, well, yes, except for that meeting."

And then try and say that it was a neutral meeting or meeting that didn't really produce much in the way of results. And they've had to amend and amend and amend their initial filings.

Jared Kushner is one of several senior Trump administration officials who failed to fully disclose their communications whether with WikiLeaks, with Russians, or with individuals who claimed they represented Russians with information that might be helpful to the campaign.

I think it's time for us to bring Jared Kushner before the committee and to have him testify so that the American public can make up their mind about what's going on here and who's being truthful.

It may be the case as Kushner's lawyer argues that in the specific e- mail chain that's being discussed now, that Kushner was discouraging a meeting with Russians to get information from WikiLeaks. But that's quite a different thing than his initial position that there were no such meetings or that he had fully disclosed all such meetings.

SCUITTO: That's right. And he did accept that meeting, the famous meeting in Trump Tower in which we now know Russians offered damaging information to Hillary Clinton in advance of that meeting. I want to ask you this.

There's been a lot of concern, not just with the Judiciary Committee, but with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees that the partisan differences are really getting in the way of the work they need to do.

You're on the Judiciary Committee. I know you have some disagreements with your Republican colleagues. But are you and Republicans -- or Democrats and Republicans on the Judiciary Committee still able to investigate this in the aggressive way that they are charged to do?

[13:10:16] COONS: Our progress has really slowed, Jim. The coordination, the cooperation between our chair and ranking member has frayed somewhat as they have different priorities for what sorts of information and witnesses they want to pursue.

I believe the Senate Intelligence Committee continues to make progress. The House Intelligence Committee as, you know, and has been widely reported, has had a real on again, off again progress because of some missteps by Devon Nunez, the initial chair of their investigation.

At the end of the day, my top concern is that Robert Mueller, former FBI director, career law enforcement official, a respected Republican, be able to conduct and complete his investigation without harassment or interference.

I think it is equally important that on the Judiciary Committee, we'd be able to do our job of oversight the Department of Justice. I have recently sent a letter to the attorney general, which has not yet received a reply in several weeks. For example, asking about the abrupt firing of Dana Boente, number four in the Department of Justice, the Eastern District of Virginia U.S. attorney.

There are reasons we should continue to ask questions and bring in witnesses in front of the Judiciary Committee. And I'm concerned, Jim, that we are slowing in our progress.

SCUITTO: Let me ask you this. I notice the day before Thanksgiving, but I'm not going to let you off the hook here. Did Gary Cohn in that meeting with Democratic senators discussing tax reform bill, did he fake a bad connections to get the President off the phone?

COONS: Well, I remember it a little differently. It was a long call. It was clear that there was some eagerness in the room for us to resume our conversation. We heard a lot from the President. I do remember Senator Carper making that suggestion.

I don't think Gary Cohn abruptly hung up on the President, but it was a challenge to transition him off the call. And I think Gary Cohn handled it appropriately.

SCUITTO: A challenge to transition him off the call. Well, diplomatic phrasing here, Senator Chris Coons. Let me wish you and your family a happy Thanksgiving.

COONS: Thank you, Jim. And I hope as we move toward Thanksgiving we'll remember our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands and be supportive of folks who need our assistance at Thanksgiving. Thank you.

SCUITTO: Agreed very much. Good words, Senator Chris Coons. Thanks very much.

Ivanka Trump said that there is a special place in hell for someone like Roy Moore, yet her father has just endorsed him. We're going to discuss that.

And really it just a stunning video coming out of North Korea. North Korean defector under fire escaping to South Korea. See what happened and what they found inside his body after this. That's right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:18] SCIUTTO: You have to watch this video. It looks like a scene right from an action movie. With bullets flying, a North Korean soldier makes a daring escape across the border to the South. Shot multiple times. He barely makes it to safety.

All of this caught on closed-circuit television. CNN's Brian Todd is here to break this down.

I mean I can't believe it no matter how many times I watch this. But so tell our viewers how this went down.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, so, Jim, we'll pick it up here after he drives his Jeep into a ditch.

At this point, he has already crossed past a North Korean checkpoint, a command post. He's driven past it. Soldiers have already come out. They're aware of it. They've been running toward him.

OK, we're going to pick up the video here.

He's in a ditch. You're going to see him getting out of the vehicle here. This is on November 13th, a week ago Monday.

Now, watch, he runs over this way. I've got to pause it just right. Look at this. You've got North Korean -- his fellow North Korean soldiers chasing after him here. They come right behind him.

SCIUTTO: I mean he -- they're just feet behind him at that point. TODD: They're -- it's hard to know the depth.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TODD: But it can't be more than 15 feet.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TODD: They are firing at him. He's running. How they don't kill him at that moment is astounding.

OK, now watch. He gets out of the frame. This soldier hits the ground. Probably purposely to steady his shot. He hits the ground. At this point, look at this guy over here. He comes in. Seemingly with a pistol. He levels it. We're not sure if he fires or not. But if we come over here, you can see other North Korean soldiers over here on the right, they're firing.

SCIUTTO: Yes, those are plumes of smoke. They're firing those weapons.

TODD: Those are plumes of smoke. They are clearly firing. Forty bullets fired at this guy, Jim, in these frantic seconds.

Now, watch, this North Korean soldier scrambles across the demarcation line chasing after him. He's not supposed to do that. That's a violation of the armistice. Watch what he does. He gets about, I don't know, 15 feet across, doubles back.

Now, I talked to General "Spider" Marks, who's commanded troops here. He says this guy isn't going back because he thinks, oh, I've violated the armistice. He's going back because he could be a target. He's realizing South Korean troops are on the way. He knows they're on the way and they could be shooting at him.

Now --

SCIUTTO: So he's running for his life then at this point, yes.

TODD: Right, he's running for his life then at this point.

We're going to then get to this other video. Astounding here. Now, watch. You're going to see -- look at this. He's presumably already been shot. Look at him. He's bounding across, full of adrenaline.

SCIUTTO: That's with, we think, as many as four bullets in him at that time.

TODD: Yes. Right. This is on a loop. So it's just going to keep repeating. But, look at this, he is hoofing it. He's getting across to the South Korean side of the border, presumably having been shot at least once or possibly twice.

We'll go to a still shot of him here.

SCIUTTO: And that's --

TODD: He's lying in a heap by a retaining wall. He's already across the border. The doctor said he lost more than half of his blood, OK?

So then we're going to get to this heat sensored video here. I'm going to play it here.

SCIUTTO: These are the figures here because it detects the heat signature from their bodies.

TODD: Heat signature video. These are two South Korean soldiers. What's interesting here, Jim, at this moment, look at that, looks like one of them has got a gun leveled for cover as they crawl toward him.

[13:20:05] Look at this. They're going to pick him up. They're going to drag him back toward their side of the border.

Now he -- this is technically on the South Korean side. But, again, General Marks told me, at this moment, they are exposed to North Koreans, who have a line of sight and a line of fire at them from over here. And the North Koreans could have easily fired more shots. You would have had an escalation. They drag him back over here to safety. He is airlifted out and then taken to a hospital.

Again, the doctor saying he lost more than half of his blood. He took at least five shots. Several of them, let's say -- the doctor said in the shoulder, in the abdomen, in the knee. The one in the abdomen is the one bullet that stayed in his body. That caused the most damage. And the doctor later said one -- that one almost killed him, Jim. He lost more than half the blood in his body. He is lucky to be alive right now.

SCIUTTO: Brian Todd, thanks very much. Just a fascinating story, a fascinating video.

A lot to talk about. This is the first time the American-led U.N. Command has actually released security footage of a defection across that demilitarized zone. We can discuss what we can learn from the video.

My next guest, Balbina Hwang, she is a former senior adviser at the State Department.

So first question is, unusual for the U.S.-led forces there to release a video like this. Is there a message that they're trying to send?

BALBINA HWANG, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, we have to remember, this is actually the United Nations Command. And this is something that we often forget because the U.N. Command is still in charge of keeping this armistice and guarding the DMZ to make sure both sides don't restart the Korean War.

SCIUTTO: Right.

HWANG: And, yes, it is unusual. But I think it's because there's so much speculation and so many rumors and exaggerations that come out. And this is just to show exactly what occurred.

SCIUTTO: Is -- we understand -- so the Korean -- North Korean soldiers, as we understand, particularly the ones that are stationed at the border, that they are the best fed, they're the best treated, right? They want to put on a good face for North Korea, but also make them the most alert, the most capable. We learned that they found that he had parasites in his body. I mean this was not a healthy soldier. Can that tell us anything about conditions?

HWANG: Oh, it tells us a great deal. Much more about sort of the long- term conditions and really what this regime has done over decades. These parasites that are -- have not been found anywhere else are actually quite common among those North Koreans that escape North Korea.

SCIUTTO: And, I suppose, the obvious point too is that if you're willing to run in the face of gunfire to escape a country, that tells you something about -- and you're a soldier who's presumably been chosen for your loyalty and your commitment, et cetera, that's not a particularly encouraging sign for the state of that regime.

HWANG: Well, no, it is not. On the other hand, I think we should be very careful about using this one incident as a sign that the whole country's disintegrating. There have been these occasional crossings across. By the way, from the South into the North, strangely enough. So I would be much more concerned if there's sort of mass defections of entire divisions or platoons or brigades.

SCIUTTO: Right, or senior leadership, I imagine, as well.

HWANG: That's exactly right.

SCIUTTO: OK, Balbina Hwang, thanks very much for putting that into context for us.

HWANG: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: One programming note. Tonight at 9:00 Eastern Time, CNN correspondent Will Ripley, he gives us a rare glimpse of the secret state taking us inside North Korea. It's a must watch. You learn a lot.

Meanwhile, the president is taking his feud with the father of a UCLA basketball player to yet another level, calling him, quote, "an ungrateful fool," and comparing him to Don King. The backlash ahead.

Plus, several Republican senators still undecided on the tax bill, but did one famous holdout tip her hand?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:09] SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

President Donald Trump finally breaking his silence on Alabama Senate Candidate Roy Moore and allegations of sexual assault. The president is saying quite clearly in fact that he believes Moore's denials over the accounts of eight female accusers. But Moore's opponent, Doug Jones, is using the words of others in Washington to make his case in this new ad. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Roy Moore's disturbing actions, Ivanka Trump says there's a special place in hell for people who prey on children. And I have no reason to doubt the victims' accounts. Jeff Sessions says, I have no reason to doubt these young women. And Richard Shelby says he will absolutely not vote for Roy Moore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I want to bring in my panel now. CNN congressional correspondent Sunlen Serfaty, Juana Summers, she's CNN politics senior writer, and A.B. Stoddard, associate editor and columnist for RealClearPolitics.

Listen, the contrast between father and daughter here is remarkable, and it's not the first time, of course, on other issues. But here you have the daughter of the president saying, there's a special place in heal, and the president saying, you know what, I don't believe their accounts. How do you react to that?

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR AND COLUMNIST, "REALCLEARPOLITICS": Well, what's consistent about Trump land is its inconsistency. So Donald Trump watched the RNC break a financial agreement -- fundraising agreement with Roy Moore. His own spokespeople have been saying it's up to the voters of Alabama to decide, it's not up to us. His daughter said there's a special place in hell for people who prey on children. And he's gone on to say, well, it's been 40 years and he's denied it.

So this is -- this is what happens. He doesn't -- he's not really a team player. He doesn't stay on message. And, obviously, given his own particular situation facing 16 or so allegations of harassment and other claims, he, I think, is most comfortable defending Roy Moore.

But it's also an interesting aspect that he -- he said something like, you know, they're Trump voters. He has this thing about believing that he -- he's going to hang with his voters no matter who they defend in -- no matter what the case.

[13:30:12]