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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Love at the Right Time but in a Wrong Place; Witness Found Dead Days After Leaving School. Aired 6-6:30p ET

Aired February 8, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] S.E. CUPP, HOST, HLN: .. unfiltered. Crime & Justice with Ashleigh Banfield is next.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime & Justice.

A heart-stopping scene on i-95 in South Florida today as police chased down a man who they believe shot a woman dead at point-blank range just a few

hours before the scene you are looking at on your screen.

The suspect had been barreling down the interstate going the wrong way flying into oncoming traffic. No surprise after smashing into several cars,

he himself crashed his SUV right there on the busy interstate.

And this was the scene afterwards when the highway patrol got there, and the sheriff`s deputies told him to not move a muscle. Put your hands up,

only he wasn`t having any of it.

And even a taser did not work on this man. Eventually, an officer who said he feared for his life quickly took aim and shot the driver dead.

The suspect had led police on a harrowing chase through Palm Beach County, speeding southbound in the northbound lanes. Multiple accidents, the result

of his actions.

At a Texas traffic stop, dash cam video shows a rookie deputy, out alone, on the beach, just one month, and she is dragged down the street when the

intoxicated driver decides to start that car up and take off on her. Here`s how this whole terrifying moment played out. Sights and sounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. Stop!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have my foot. You have my foot. Stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Despite being dragged a half mile, this deputy was not hurt, shockingly, and that suspect, he was later arrested and charged with among

other things, aggravated assault on a public servant.

In this video like the next one you`re about to see that makes parents everywhere cringe just a little sometimes, and a lot other times.

First, a Houston high school teacher, you see him being swiped over the head with something by a student. See that? Grabs the hat, it looks like.

So what does the teacher do in response to this? Gets up, takes off his belt, chases that student down and wails repeatedly on that student with

the belt until the teen eventually falls to the floor.

The school district released a statement expressing shock over this video saying that the teacher was indeed fired because of this. And that an

investigation is underway.

You know, they always make the news, those gorgeous teachers caught naughty things with students, things they shouldn`t be doing.

And the rouge gallery is long and lovely. For instance, from Debra Lafave who was caught with a a 14-year-old boy, and ultimately was convicted of

what she did with that 14-year-old boy, to Mary Kay Letourneau, who eventually married the sixth grader with whom she was having sex.

And then there were the less famous, yet still eye-popping cases like Pamela Rogers who pleaded no contest to getting busy with a 13-year-old

student, and Brittni Colleps. She was very busy it turns out, having sex with five students.

And then, Carrie McCandless. Carrie McCandless was a teacher who went on a camping trip and then had her way with a student who was just shy of his

18th birthday. Not sure why she was smiling.

And like I said, they always make headlines. But should they always make headlines? Take for instance, Tayler Boncal. A 22-year-old who is simply

stunning even in a mug shot, and I don`t know if the 18-year-old student who we`re about to talk about found her as pretty in this picture as he did

when he asked for her number in class, but he was smitten and she handed that phone number over.

When the school found out though, they told the police, and when the police found out, they charged Tayler.

But let`s break this down. He is 18, and she is 22. He is legal. She is just four years older. So should this be so taboo? I want to go right to

Mikaela Porter, reporter for the Hartford Courant who is following this story.

So what is the -- what is the chain of events that has this 18-year-old student who is a grown-up with a 22-year-old student teacher who is also a

grown-up, and now she is facing some extraordinary charges?

MIKAELA PORTER, REPORTER, HARTFORD COURANT: So started as you said, Tayler was a student teacher at this Conard High School in West Hartford, and she

completed her student teaching and was hired in December by the school as one of the track coaches.

[18:05:07] In December, the victim, the 18-year-old student, asked Tayler for her phone number, and she gave him the phone number. They started

exchanging text messages and on Christmas, they both admitted to having a sexual relationship and that they had sex a few times after that.

BANFIELD: So as I understand it, Mikaela, both admitted it, and went even further, and correct me if I`m wrong here, but I believe that Ms. Boncal,

Tayler Boncal said she was in love with this student, and worried that he might get in trouble for this. Is that right?

PORTER: She did say that she loved, you know, loved the student and she had emotional, you know, emotional feelings towards him. Yes. Even he had

expressed at least some concern regarding what would happen with the investigation.

BANFIELD: So what about the student`s parents? Because usually a student`s parents, you know, loses it, blows a gasket if they find out a student has

been molesting or that a teacher has been molesting their child who is a student. That is not the story in this case, is it?

PORTER: No. As police have said in the arrest warrant, that a student had actually come forward, had spoken to the athletic director about the rumors

about this going on. And that is how this investigation started. According to police, of course.

BANFIELD: OK. I want to break for a moment and play an interview with Larry King Live that Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau, her former student who

became her husband, who I believe is on his way to being an ex-husband now.

But after a fairly lengthy, I believe two decade long marriage, Mary Kay Letourneau was his sixth grade teacher and that`s where she met Vili, and

that`s where the flame was lit when he was her sixth grade student. And you know, she went to prison twice over this.

Because when she got a break the first time, she didn`t do what she was told, and she got back with Vili even though she had been given a break,

and when that was discovered she was put away for the full seven years, I believe and then ultimately came and they had two children together.

So Larry King did -- I think an interesting interview with Mary Kay and with Vili about this relationship. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, TV HOST: No regret for anything concerning Vili?

MARY KAY LETOURNAUE, GRADESCHOOL TEACHER: My gosh. No. We`re so happy.

KING: Do you two think this is a cliche, that you are soul mates?

VILI FUALAAU, MARY KAY LETOURNAUE`S STUDENT: Twin flames.

LETOURNAUE: There are so many terms like that. Soul mates is kind of overused. But I really wouldn`t put a label on it at all. It`s -- I don`t

know. We just...

(CROSSTALK)

KING: Twin flames.

LETOURNAUE: Twin flames.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, there is something wrong when your twin flame with someone who is underage. That is just clear, and everybody knows that`s also

illegal. But let`s remember, Tayler Boncal is 22 years old and the student teacher and the flame that she`s got is with someone who is 18, a young man

who is 18.

So Mikaela, the issue is, yes, he is of legal age of consent for sexual activity, but it is a school policy and a law within the state that says,

if you are a teacher, it doesn`t matter how old the student is, correct?

PORTER: Correct, yes. The teacher -- any employee for the school district.

BANFIELD: But the weird thing is she was also a coach of some kind. Whether it was an assistant coach or a coach. She was not his coach, but the law in

Connecticut, and maybe other states as well, and I don`t know this, it`s interesting -- if you are a coach, the same thing doesn`t apply.

As long as you`re not a coach at the school, I mean, that`s a little bit strange and I think that brings me to the whole outrage factor. Can you

give me the sense of your community? Are people outraged with this woman, or are they outraged that the law is going after this woman, especially

since the parents don`t want her to be adjudicated?

PORTER: Well, the response on Friday when all of this started coming out, you know, the school principal sent out a note home to parents to let them

know what was going on.

The superintendent expressed concern, and he said he was furious about, you know, about this. Saying, you know, whether someone is 21, 41 or 61, the

moment they`re part of the school as a student teacher, mentor or coach, they ensure that they could trust with students in the community. So, you

know, the response from the school and the district there.

[18:10:03] BANFIELD: I think I can understand how the school would respond. I mean, they have -- you know, they`re on the line. The liabilities are far

and wide at that point.

Let me actually just read a couple of things you pointed out right there. The Conard High School principal`s statement. "Once I received the

misconduct complaint, I immediately informed the police and launched an investigation. While I cannot comment on the specifics of the

investigation, I can tell you that this person no longer works at Conard."

And then the statement goes on to say, "As educators, we are entrusted to protect and educate all of our students and know that there are certain

boundaries that can never be crossed. Also we will not tolerate any behavior that compromises the safety or well-being of our students."

I want to bring in, if I can, clinical psychologist Robi Ludwig. Because Robi, we all make great hay of these stories when they hit the press.

ROBI LUDWIG, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right.

BANFIELD: Especially when the teachers are beautiful.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: And then you`ll hear all sorts of men say, gee, I wish my teacher had done that to me when -- I mean, that`s really short-sighted.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: However, that`s often the reaction.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: In this particular case, it`s a little different. He is 18. She is 22. Had there not been a school involved, there would be no problem at

all. Do you think that this is -- is it time to revisit these laws?

LUDWIG: No.

BANFIELD: Why not? Tell me.

LUDWIG: Because she was still his teacher. They were in a scholastic community. She was -- she had a responsibility to maintain those

boundaries. Now having said that, do I think it`s criminal? You know, that`s for the law to decide.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: And that`s where I ask you.

LUDWIG: OK.

BANFIELD: How about fire her?

LUDWIG: Right.

BANFIELD: But don`t make her a sexual offender.

LUDWIG: OK. I agree with that because it`s more in the line of romantic poor judgment, and one of the problems here is when you have a young

teacher, very often, these young teachers are not educated, and they might feel attracted to a student.

Or that a student might seduce them. And what do you do with those feelings? Who do you talk to about it? How normal is it? And so that`s why

these situations are happening over and over and over again because some of these teachers are naive. They are not trained so they easily get seduced

in way that let`s say, a more trained professional might not.

BANFIELD: That`s a great point. And in fact, you know, this is all becoming very new to the systems across the country, especially since the Mary Kay

Letourneau days.

Let me bring in a defense attorney on this one. Kirby Clements is with me live in Atlanta. Kirby, I don`t know the answer to this, and I don`t know

that you will know the answer to this. I don`t know that anyone can give a blanket answer to this.

But do schools on a regular basis, upon September whatever on the incoming moments when those student teachers all arrived, fresh faced at the ripe

age of 22, do they read them the riot act and legally say, listen, you might think it`s legal because they might be 18, but you will go to jail.

Do they do that, and do they have to?

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the second question, no they don`t have to do that. And so the first one, I think that they probably have

their code of conduct that they explain to the teachers what they are supposed to do.

What they probably don`t go into the criminal liability that the teachers face, which then perhaps they ought to do that to let them know that it is

a crime, and you don`t want to be committing any crimes, but some of this you would think would be common sense. Don`t have relationships with

students. But of course, when they`re old enough...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: You would think, Kirby, you would think but then the 22-year-old might say, the common sense is, don`t have sex with underage boys, but he

is 18. He can go to war. He can vote, and in Canada, he can drink. Isn`t that also common sense for a 22-year-old coming out of college and

beginning her career?

CLEMENTS: I think you`re absolutely correct that at that stage of the game, you are not thinking that this as a position of power. Look at the

Connecticut law and it does state that teachers are in positions of power, just like jail.

You know, all the inmates and prisoners are adult but the guards can`t have sexual relationships with them because of that power dynamic. But in this

situation when it`s an adult and you have a teacher, perhaps it ought not be a felony.

What about night school? Does that mean if you have somebody who is 25 in a night school, that they can be prosecuted for having, or that their teacher

can be prosecuted? So there are some areas that I think need to be cleared up on this law.

LUDWIG: I do too. You know, would a 22-year-old say, well, I`m really in love, how can this be a crime? You could see how somebody young would

justify their behavior and their choices.

And even if there is a code of conduct, that`s very different than giving supervision and training saying, we know this might happen, and you are not

a bad person if this happens, but you will lose your job and perhaps career if you act on it.

BANFIELD: Right. Speaking of that, Kirby. The charge that Tayler Boncal is facing right now, and there are three counts because, I guess they were

getting busy a few more times than just once, is second degree sexual assault. I have covered cases where people have gone to prison for 20 years

for sexual assault. What is she facing for three counts of second degree sexual assault?

[18:14:59] CLEMENTS: I think this is a -- if I`m not mistaken, I lost -- I have forgotten this (Inaudible) I think second degree sexual assault is a

class c felony because of the age of the student. That is if the student is 16 or younger, it`s a greater penalty, but if they are over 16, or 17, or

18, then it`s a classic. It`s a lower level felony and I believe it`s 10 years if I`m not mistaken. I think it`s actually 10 years that she`s facing

per count, so that would be a total of 30 years.

BANFIELD: Jesus. And then, of course, there`s a registration for life in some cases, right, Kirby?

CLEMENTS: Yes. I mean, you have registration for life under the sex offender statute unless they can age off or they can petition the report.

So effectively, a 22-year-old with an 18-year-old in a consensual relationship and her life is ruined now. It may affect where she can live

now.

BANFIELD: I want to find out what happened here because with those parents of her boyfriend saying, give it a rest already. I think it changes the

dynamics somehow, and I certainly think there is something wrong in this metric.

Thank you to Robi. I`m going to ask you both. Kirby, stay put as well, because I`ve got a couple more cases I need you to weigh in on. Still with

the teenagers here but this one much more sinister.

A 16-year-old does appears on the way to the bus stop in the morning. But four days later, she reappears, only she is dead, and she is in a field

miles and miles and miles from home. And the big clue that could point investigators to the person responsible for her death may just lie with a

pink Nike sneaker.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Teenagers do not choose their sneakers lightly. Ask any parent. Those sneakers can be the source of a lot of household drama, so when a 16-

year-old Mujey Dumbuya decided to choose those pink Nikes and lace them up, two weeks ago, you can only assume she was feeling pretty fly on the way to

the bus stop.

But if she planned to show those Nikes off to the kids on the bus, it didn`t happen. Mujey never made it there, and neither did those Nikes.

Instead, she was found four days later in a field 50 miles away from that bus stop, and Mujey was dead.

But what makes her case even more puzzling was that she was wearing only one of those prized pink sneakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAJA CORNEN, MUJEY DUMBUYA`S AUNT: Who would want to hurt her? Our little angel. Who would really want to hurt Mujey? What did she ever do to

anybody?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: As random as that crime seems, there may be a glaring clue apart from the sneakers. Mujey was scheduled to testify as a star witness in a

sexual assault case. Somehow, that man had been led out on bond, but not anymore.

With me now is Rachel Glaser. She is a reporter for CNN affiliate, WWMT. Rachel what is the story of the man who was out on bond, Quinn Anthony

James, and what is his connection to Mujey?

RACHEL GLASER, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WWMT: Well, Quinn Anthony James was released on bond after he had been accused of raping Mujey. He had

assaulted her several times and James Quinn was her boyfriend`s uncle, so that`s how they knew each other, but he also worked for the school district

where she went to school.

BANFIELD: So if I have it right, he is up on charges for the sexual assault of Mujey. He bonds out, and I think at about $100,000, if I`m not mistaken.

And correct me anywhere I`m wrong, Rachel, and he was...

(CROSSTALK)

GLASER: No, you`re right. It was $100,000, which was the minimum that the prosecutor asked for.

BANFIELD: OK. He is out on the minimum. OK. He is out on the minimum, and how long before Mujey is supposed to be the star witness in the sex assault

trial that she is the victim in, and he is the defendant? How long before that trial does she just all of a sudden go missing on her way to the bus

stop?

GLASER: So that trial date was set for April. Early April. April 9th, and she was reported missing January 24th. Now something interesting that we

learned today, was that January 23rd is the day that Quinn James Was notified that the case was going to trial. One day later -- just one day

later, that`s when Mujey went missing and then four days after that is when her body was found.

BANFIELD: It sounds awfully suspect. So the pink sneaker, you know, that is a very strange clue. You know, when a person goes missing and then is found

murdered, it`s not typical that there would be only one shoe. Do you know anything more about that clue?

GLASER: We really don`t. I know that police gave us a lot of very specifics on what she was wearing. She was wearing a Cinderella t-shirt, this baby

pink gym shoes, and only one was found. And they are at an advantage trying to fill in this four-day gap of trying to figure out where Mujey was, and

what happened.

So they send out a lot of specific detail which is unusual about what she was wearing, but we don`t know anything about why only one shoe was found.

They`ve been very tight-lipped on the status of the body, of when it was discovered.

BANFIELD: OK. So I want to be real clear right now. For Quinn Anthony James, as coincidental as all of this seems, he is not a suspect right now

in the disappearance and then death of Mujey.

[18:25:08] He is not even a person of interest. The only thing that the detectives in this case will say is that they are looking at him in this

case, that they are looking at him.

But I do want to go over some of his background because he has a pretty significant rap sheet, and the crimes are serious in his past. In 1991,

armed robbery. This is the current -- yes, let`s go back to his rap sheet. Thank you.

Armed robbery, and then also he has got this attempt prisoner possession of weapons and there`s two counts there in 2003. Attempt prisoner possessions

sounds kind of weird in terms of the wording, but it basically means you were in (Inaudible) and you were found with a weapon, and that`s never

good.

So when you see those two dashes, it really means three crimes, right. Attempted robbery, one -- or armed robbery one, and then the attempt of

prisoner possession, two. So, in this particular state, Michigan, one more and you`re in big trouble because he`s already got three.

So the fourth offense, no matter what kind of felony it is and you are looking at a minimum of 25 years to life. Twenty five years for the next.

So just let`s be clear here, Rachel. He is right facing another sex assault case in addition to the sex assault case of Mujey, and maybe since she

can`t be a star witness in the case against her, who knows that there will be a conviction there, and I believe there were several counts, four counts

against Mujey. There is another conviction somewhere. Do you know anything about that case?

GLASER: Yes, that case dates back to 2014, and this was another teenage girl who said that she was raped by James. And similar to Mujey`s case, she

said that she knew him, she knew him for about a year, and she named him to police - the Kent County sheriff`s office. But investigators there say that

the prosecutor`s office declined to press charges because of a lack of evidence. And then now...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: So surprise, surprise.

GLASER: Yes.

BANFIELD: They have picked him up. Yes, surprise, surprise a 2014 case, right? This fourth or this, rather, this second case would be a fifth

sexual assault count against him. They have picked him up.

GLASER: Correct.

BANFIELD: A 2014 case, and here we are 2018 and they have picked him up and put him away, and they are not saying why, but I don`t know. That sounds

coincidental. It`s an easy way to hold someone when you want to investigate him and hopefully he doesn`t fly to coup.

But he is not at this point, a person of interest or a suspect according to police in the Mujey Dumbuya murder.

So real quickly, Tom Verni, former NYPD detective, and law enforcement consultant, the question I have for you is, when you have a guy who is up

on four sexual assault charges and she is the star witness, and she goes missing, why on earth would the police say, she is a runaway? Because

that`s what they said. She is a runaway. She is the star witness for a rape case coming up.

TOM VERNI, LAW ENFORCEMENT CONSULTANT: Yes. This is really confusing to me. I mean, look. We don`t know for sure, right? So is there a possibility that

she is a runaway? It`s possible, is it probable? Not likely. I mean, this guy clearly because he has quite a bit of a menace to society for the last

quarter of a century, I mean, from the reports I was reading his record dates back to 1991. And he has been, you know, brought up on charges like

this before of raping someone.

Now with this case, if I`m not mistaken, he says the sex was consensual.

BANFIELD: He admitted to having sex with a 16-year-old and he says it was consensual. He is 42.

VERNI: Right. He was 50 at the time if I`m not mistaken.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: He`s damn at face to say it was consensual. It`s a child. They can`t consent.

VERNI: Right. Exactly. So, look, clearly we could establish just a baseline that there is a motive for him to be, you know, to have committed this

crime because, look. If he is going away for the rest of his life...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Well, Tom, even if she thinks she is going to meet her 42-year- old lover, it`s an amber alert. Because that`s a crime in progress.

VERNI: Yes.

BANFIELD: So why would they say run -- first of all, first of all, the victim`s aunt was real clear on what she thought about this whole runaway

crap. Have a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORNEN: My big sister contacted the police, you know, and then they are filing a missing person. So she has been working with the detectives and

everything for this, for Mujey. We still couldn`t find her or even hear anything. She didn`t run away. What would make her run away? She has a

family that loves her. She has everybody that loves her around her. What would make her run away?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And lest anyone think that Mujey is just another one of those cases, 16-year-old disappears. That cute pink backpack and those pink Nike

tennis shoes should at least give some indication of what you can remember her by, that beautiful million dollar smile of hers.

[18:30:04] And how about the fact she loved to dance? Because her aunt really put it in perspective. Have a look.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

HAJA COMEH, VICTIM`S AUNT: She loves to dance. She loves to dance. She would just do a video dancing. And I`m like, why are you dancing? She would

say, because I`m going to be a superstar someday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Probably not the way she would have expected to be on television. And here`s this question. Let`s say for instance, that this man, Quinn

Anthony James, goes from being someone they are looking at to someone they end up actually charging in Mujey`s death -- let me bring in Kirby Clements

on this one.

Kirby, as a defense attorney, he has already admitted to having what he thinks is consensual sex. And if his DNA is anywhere near or on her in that

awful field that she was found in, could he use that as an excuse and say, well, sure we had sex, you can charge me with that, but I didn`t kill her?

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I think at that point, I mean as a defense lawyer, first of all, you`re going to be mad at your client for

making that comment that he had consensual sex because it`s still going to be punishable by, you know, what he`s looking at 25 minimum to life, so

you`re already upset about that.

And then if you have his DNA in that field where she was found, you`re the last person with this woman. With this girl, I should say. You`re the last

person with this girl. Your DNA is there. Her body is there. She has only got one shoe which suggests almost like a struggle.

There is no -- I mean, it`s a strong circumstantial case. As a defense lawyer, you would argue that it`s a circumstantial case and perhaps

something else happened to her. But as far as -- as a former sex crime prosecutor, I can tell, that would be a strong circumstantial case that

back in my prosecutor days, I would have won.

BANFIELD: Yes. No matter what, he has already admitted to his fourth felony. He has already I had sex with her but it was consensual. Ding-bat,

you`re 42 years old, she`s 16. Instant felony, instant fourth strike, instant 25 to life. We`ll see how this one plays out. Rachel Glaser (ph),

thank you. Tom Bernie (ph) and Kirby Clements, thank you as well. Stand by, if you will.

We all know that love runs deep for mom. But what happens when you find out that mom isn`t your mom, but is instead a thief who stole you?

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Everybody knows that a baby`s first word is often "mama," no matter who is holding her, and Kamiyah Mobley likely gazed up into the eyes

above her babbling that magical word to the delight of that woman above her.

Only that woman was not her "mama." That woman was a baby thief, allegedly. Kamiyah`s real mother was miles and miles and miles away, wiping her tears

and catching her breath, still bewildered that someone had snatched her newborn baby girl from the hospital at just eight hours old.

She would remain bewildered for 18 years. Kamiyah, however, would continue to look up into those eyes and say "mama" for all 18 of those years, none

the wiser. But even when she did find out the truth about that "mama," those feelings did not go away immediately.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

KAMIYAH MOBLEY, KIDNAPPED AT BIRTH: I still love her. I still feel the same about her. Nothing -- there is nothing different. There is nothing

different. It`s just life which is at my front door right now. But I`m a big girl. I can process it all. But like I said, my feelings toward my

mother will never change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Hard to remember that there are now going to be feelings for two mothers. The one she thinks was her mother, and the mother who is her

mother, who she had to start to get to know.

With me now, Roger Henderson, news director for WBOB in Jacksonville, Florida. It`s going to be hard to use the terminology here, Roger, but for

the fake mother, that`s what I`ll have to call her, what is the legal situation as of a few hours ago?

ROGER HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR, WBOB (via telephone): Well, she was set to go to trial, Ashleigh, as early as the beginning of next week. However, it

looks like there has been a delay in the case at this point. And legal experts are at least suggesting this possibility that they may need to test

the mental fitness of the mother, the fake mother, at the time the crime was committed.

They are looking at other things such as sentencing guidelines that could come into play that are different today in 2018 than they were in the late

1990s when the crime occurred, and other areas. So, a lot of evidence against the fake mom, and we`ll have to wait and see how this one turns

out.

BANFIELD: So fake mom who you are looking at here, her name is Gloria Williams, and when this all started to unravel a year ago -- almost exactly

a year ago, it was January 10th last year,

[18:40:00] the police showed up and hauled Miss Williams down to the cop shop, and wanted to have a word with her. And wouldn`t you guess what her

reaction would be knowing that she has had this secret for 18 years? Have a listen to how she dealt with the cold case they brought up to her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA WILLIAMS, KIDNAPPING SUSPECT: Tell me what what this is all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Obviously, we`re from Jacksonville. OK? Working a cold case. Talking to a few people, I just talked to Alexis, your

daughter and stuff. And she wanted straight to the truth.

Working a cold case. We get cold cases, old cases. One of them is a missing person case we`ve got from 1998. gotten two leads from NCMEC. You know what

NCMEC is? National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

WILLIAMS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right? The information alone, some of those lead last two years. To talk to you and your daughter.

WILLIAMS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. That`s why we`re here. Have you -- has anyone talked to you about why you`re here?

WILLIAMS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Are you willing to talk to me about this investigation?

WILLIAMS: Do you have a warrant for my arrest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I do not.

WILLIAMS: OK, then I don`t want to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t want to talk to or say anything about it?

WILLIAMS: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: That`s an interesting reaction. If you have no idea why you are there and then no, I do not want to talk to you about it. Look, some people

are just wise and they know to get a lawyer right away. Other people, not so wise, but they know when not to get themselves in trouble, right?

So then there was the whole notion of whether Miss Williams would end up being cooperative at all with anything. Anything at all in that room. Have

a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAMS: Why are you taking my photo?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

WILLIAMS: Why do you need to take my photo? You don`t have my permission to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing an investigation so it`s part of our investigation. We`re not going to ask you any questions or anything like

that. It`s something we need take back with us to Jacksonville.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, I would appreciate it if you wouldn`t take it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just for the investigation.

WILLIAMS: Well, I will have to let my lawyer know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, that`s fine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: OK, Roger Henderson, there are so many victims in this case, right? There is Kamiyah, who probably doesn`t feel like a victim because

she just knows the mom she always thought was her mom, and then there was the woman who had her baby stolen from her for 18 years, who I`m sure would

desperately like to have a relationship with her child who is now a woman, an adult.

But ultimately, are they going to be able to get Kamiyah? You know, she knows her name as Alexis, but can they compel her to testify against her

fake mom?

HENDERSON (via telephone): You know, I don`t know the answer to that question, but what you bring up is very interesting because the principle

victim in this case absolutely adores and worships the ground the defendant walks upon.

And if she is to testify, if they are able to force her to do so, and I`m not an attorney, but if they do, what type of testimony is she going to

bring forth before the jury?

BANFIELD: So, Kirby Clements, as a defense attorney, is that somebody you call a hostile witness even though she is just an 18-year-old girl and she

is a victim in all of this too, but there is that technical description of a hostile witness and you can lead them through a case if you go to trial?

CLEMENTS: You can lead them through the case. I mean, you can`t compel them to say what they want to say. They could compel or testify in answer to

your earlier question, yes, because she doesn`t have any -- there is no privilege that prevents her from testifying.

And she may very well get up and testify as to how wonderful a mother and how great her childhood was with this woman. But those aren`t the elements

of the crime, so that still wouldn`t help the defense in this case. So, she can be hostile, she can be whatever. All she is going to say is this is the

woman I knew as my mother.

BANFIELD: The ripple effect of this crime, and the pain and suffering among people who don`t even feel like victims, honestly. It`s just sort of an

astounding story. One of the sticking points in the case against Gloria Williams, fake mom, I keep having to call her fake mom, is the little girl.

That 8-hour-old baby who is now 19 years old. A year later, she is 19 years old.

Gloria is accused of kidnapping her. The feelings that Kamiyah, also known as Alexis, the feelings that she has for that woman as she sits in a cell

are pretty astounding. Wait until you find out what she is doing every day.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Gloria Williams was supposed to go on trial on Monday on charges that she kidnapped a baby 18 years ago and then raised her as her own. The

jury selection has been put on hold and there`s word that there may be a plea deal in the works right now. One has to really wonder, if the

relationship between that stolen baby who is now a grownup and the woman accused of stealing her may just be playing a part in this case.

[18:50:00] Roger Henderson and Robi Ludwig and Kirby Clements are all back with me now. Robi, I want to go to you about that because this is just one

for the heart strings on so many levels.

ROBI LUDWIG, CLININAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.

BANFIELD: Kamiyah is now 19 and she is only ever known Gloria as her mother. But that real mother has been a victim for 19 years.

LUDWIG: Right.

BANFIELD: Eighteen, yes, but still doesn`t really have her daughter 19 years later.

LUDWIG: Now that`s the heartbreak, right? Not only was this daughter stolen from her, but this other mother also captured the heart of her biological

daughter. So the mother is heartbroken on multiple levels.

You have to remember, too, this daughter is a teen. What do teens do? They rebel. So at a time when this teen should be rebelling against her mother,

her I guess fake mother, the opposite is happening because she`s getting pressure to not like the fake mother, hate the fake mother, love your real

mother, and she is saying I`m not going to do that.

BANFIELD: Yes.

LUDWIG: I`m going to love my fake mother as much as I want to.

BANFIELD: What you`re saying is I think spot on, because the word that we`re getting, reports are that Kamiyah, you know, she knows herself as

Alexis.

LUDWIG: OK.

BANFIELD: She was born Kamiyah Mobley but she has been named all these 19 years Alexis Manigo. The word is that she calls her mom at that jail every

day.

LUDWIG: Yes. So she`s making a statement. She`s making a statement, nobody is going to tell me who to love, nobody is going to tell me who to have a

relationship with, and regardless of what my fake mother did -- here`s the odd thing. This mother obviously committed a crime, right?

But what if she was emotionally the right match for her daughter? What if emotionally she really was the right mother for her daughter and that`s why

the daughter loves her so much?

BANFIELD: Yes.

LUDWIG: It`s an odd thing to think about.

BANFIELD: She can`t possibly know because she didn`t get to sample Shanara Mobley, her real mom.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: By the way, to that end, I want to actually just play for you a moment where Kamiyah Mobley talks about how much she loves her fake mom,

Gloria Williams. I interviewed her on this program a year ago.

And I guess I didn`t expect to hear differently, but to hear her say how much she loves this woman, who is alleged to have committed such a horrific

crime that she herself is victimized by, although we don`t know how much yet that she understands, but this is what Kamiyah Mobley told me a year

ago.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

MOBLEY: I want to tell my mother what she knows -- I`m sure she knows this. I love her to death. Keep your head up, and I love you. Hang in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Robi, the question I have is that if Shanara who is ultimately the worst victim in this case, the real mother, the real mother

who had her baby stolen at eight hours --

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: She wants justice.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: She may want vengeance, I don`t know. But if it were me, I want justice, I want vengeance, I want the book thrown at this woman who stole

the heart and the baby away from me.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: But then there is this twist because if Shanara is the star witness in this case against her own daughter`s love of her life, she is

pushing that daughter away by testifying and going for the jugular, wouldn`t she?

LUDWIG: Well, listen. I would recommend that the birth mother consult with a psychologist on how to handle it. And maybe it`s best to just share the

facts of the story and the impact this crime had on her emotionally and let the court decide, you know, who gets vengeance. You know, let the court

take vengeance so the birth mother doesn`t seem like the evil one here.

BANFIELD: Can you imagine what she`s going through, what Shanara will be going through? Wanting to get up and say I am a victim and this is my

impact statement while looking across the court and hoping not to shove further away the daughter she wants back.

LUDWIG: Maybe she could say I`m not doing that because I love my daughter and I respect her feelings.

BANFIELD: The heartbreak. Again, the ripple effect of this crime. It was not just a stolen baby, it was stolen lives and stolen families. Robi,

thank you. Roger and Kirby, thank you as well.

LUDWIG: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So, I`m going to show you something. And you might think this is about the worst composite sketch you would ever seen. Yes, that`s it. It

kind of looks like a kid drew it. But if you don`t think that a childish drawing can render a real life arrest, I got news for you, next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. Want to be artists out there, take note. And by the way, criminals, watch out. This cartoonish sketch

that was drawn by a witness actually worked. It led police to I.D. a suspect who allegedly stole money from a vendor at a Pennsylvania market.

Yes, it is child-like, but this drawing had some physical descriptions. It made Lancaster police think of this guy. When the witness actually saw the

mugshot, he said, yes, that`s the guy, believe it or not.

And now there`s a warrant out for his arrest. So if you see anybody who looks like the guy on the right or the guy on the left, make sure you call

the police. Love it when a plan comes together. Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): On the outside, it looked like Bob and Diane Ward had it all. Big house, lots of money, two kids, and a

long marriage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love my dad more than anything in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): But money troubles turned that mega mansion into a pressure-packed boiler room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shot my wife.

BANFIELD: Was it murder or a tragic accident?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The plaintiff is advising he just shot his wife.

BANFIELD: And did her scheduled testimony in the fraud case against her husband have anything to do with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once the facts and evidence weigh in, I`m really not worried about it.

BANFIELD: but maybe Bob should be as he faces round two in court for second degree murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we`ll do is I will make sure - I will make sure that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to be a superstar someday.

BANFIELD: Sixteen years old with big dreams and a dynamite smile leaves her school and never comes home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still couldn`t find her or if she was scare anything?

BANFIELD: Four days later they find her 50 miles away in a cold and lonely field.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She have a family that loves her.

BANFIELD: And tonight, a twist we didn`t see coming. She was the star witness in the case against an accused sexual predator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. That cannot be her.

BANFIELD: Will the sex case turn into a murder case.

She was kidnapped as a newborn and raised for 18 years by a woman she thought was her mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges will be kidnapping --

BANFIELD: Could a plea deal be in the works, as police release this emotional interrogation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love her to death.

BANFIELD: Hear from the woman who called Kamiyah Mobley her very own child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE

Have I got a deal for you? A sweet property in central Florida, a stone`s throw from Disney World but with all the privacy of Mar-a-Lago. This place

is an oasis. It looks straight down two luscious fairways. It is 12,000 square feet. It has six bedrooms and eight-and-a-half bathrooms. It even

has an elevator, a private pool and a wet bar.

Now hold on to your seat, because it`s valued at nearly $9 million. And while that`s not cheap, it is a deal. If you can handle the fact that a

woman had her head blown off inside that home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is your wife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s right here on the floor. I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just shot your wife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shot my wife. Yes, please send somebody over. I just shot my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Where is the weapon? Is she breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she`s dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know that for sure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, sir. Where is the weapon?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the nightstand next to the bed in the master bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is your wife, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the floor in the master bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is she?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is -- 1954 -- whatever that is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re sure she`s not breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s dead. She`s done. I`m sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: That is murder defendant Bob Ward telling the emergency operator in a calm, cool, slow manner that he had just shot his wife Diane, and he

didn`t just tell her once. He said it five times and now for the second time he is on trial for her murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened there was a tragedy. What did Mr. Ward do after that tragic accident? He immediately, he immediately called the

authorities. And I submit at the close of this case, there`s going to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Mr. Ward who had the gun in his

hand first and squeezed the trigger and shot and killed his wife out of anger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me now Ray Caputo, reporter for WDBO news radio, 96.5 in Orlando.

Ray, this is round two on second degree murder. What happened in round one?

RAY CAPUTO, REPORTER, NEWS 96.5 WDBO: Well, Ashleigh, it didn`t end too well for Mr. Ward. He was convicted of second degree murder. And he was

sentenced to 30 years in prison which basically means he was going to die in prison given his age. And he spent five years in prison before he won

this recent appeal to see another trial.

[19:05:09] BANFIELD: So let`s put up the timeline of Bob Ward`s last decade or so, because it has not been a good one for him. And it certainly has

been a bad one for Diane.

She died in 2009. That was the date of the shooting. In 2011, as Ray just reported, Bob was convicted. But in 2016 he had his conviction tossed out.

And now here we are 2018, and here we go all over again with trial number two.

Ray, why was the conviction tossed out?

CAPUTO: It had to do with his -- Bob Ward`s lawyers not objecting to things that shouldn`t have been admissible in court, mainly anything that

pertained to his right to remain silent. There were a lot of references. In fact, there was like 25 references in his first trial about things that his

lawyers should have objected to. So the judge determined that there was a reasonable suspicion that this was going to affect the trial, and they

ordered a retrial.

BANFIELD: So what`s important here is that it was the technicality that we often see, you know. When you ask for a lawyer, that`s your right. That`s

not supposed to be held against you. In trial number one, it looks as though the courts agree it was held against him, so, out it goes. And here

we go again.

But it`s not as if there was exculpatory evidence that came in or someone walks in the back door and says I`m the one. I mean, it is not like that in

this case. So can you take me to the actual crime and what he said happened and what the prosecutors say happened?

CAPUTO: CAPUTO: You know, Ashleigh, with this story, there`s two people know what happened. One of them is dead. Bob Ward is the other one. And you

know, his story is that he really didn`t have much time to react. That he approached his wife and saw a gun and he tried to pull it out of her hand

and everything happened so fast. And according to Mr. Ward, there wasn`t even any words uttered.

Now on the other side of it, the prosecution, and a lot of evidence points to their version of events. That there was some sort of fight. There was a

broken wine glass. There was actually wine that spilled on Mr. Ward`s shirt. And the fact that his wife was shot 18 inches away, that`s what they

estimate. Which doesn`t sound like a suicide to me.

So you know, Bob Ward`s side of things, he says it`s a tragic accident. The prosecution and evidence points to the fact that they were both drinking

and it could have been an accident, but he intentionally shot his wife to some extent. He knew what he was doing when he picked that gun up. So he

deserve - you know, second degree murder charge seems to be fitting in this case.

BANFIELD: And you look at these pictures on your screen and you think, money solves all problems, doesn`t it? Living in a mansion like this, and

apparently 12,000 square feet. That if you want to just count the heated square feet, maybe not the garage or pool cage, if there is one, it is

closer to 9,000 square feet. Something I think I saw in a Zillow ad might be like $50,000 a year in taxes alone to live in a place like this. So you

are rolling in the dough if you have a place like this.

But apparently, Ray, it was not quite all as it appeared. There seemed to be a bankruptcy looming and some financial fraud charges. And I`m going to

motive here because you know when all`s great, it`s terrific, but when life goes south, all sorts of things follow. Is that one of the motives here?

Was there something that Diane was going to bring to the table in the financial crisis for this family that maybe Bob didn`t want her to say?

BANFIELD: Yes. You know, Ashleigh. Their life was in a vice grip. You know, the life they had known, the beautiful neighborhood they lived in. Actually

Tiger Woods lived in that same neighborhood before he moved away. I mean, what an ideal life these two are living.

And you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, something like this happens. And you know, the motive right now is that Bob Ward was going

through a bankruptcy. And his wife was going to testify like three days after she was shot. And he didn`t want her to testify. And she was going to

basically say, that you know, well, his companies were failing. He was, you know, buying cars and houses and properties and wasn`t being very fiscally

responsible.

And I can only imagine, you know, a husband and wife here for 26 years, he must have felt some degree of, you know, disloyalty there. And you know,

whether or not it`s right or wrong is beside the point. I can imagine it upset him. So that bankruptcy was kind of the backdrop of all this tension.

The prosecutors described it as like a boiler room.

BANFIELD: OK. So basically he went from living in 12,000 square feet to approximately 70 square feet. And if you don`t believe my math, I`m about

to show you something. This is some video from the jailhouse where Bob was talking to his daughter. And incidentally, it should be noted to our

audience that his daughter supports him. You can tell. It`s very evident from the conversation that they are having in this jailhouse call. And

really, this is just a flavor for the relationship between Bob`s daughter and Bob. And I think an aunt is in the background and Bob`s new life in 70

square feet. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:10:26] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll make sure that -- no, I wouldn`t do that. Do you want to hear -- Beth said she has had, you know, hundreds of

phone calls about you and everybody is very, very supportive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no cold water and barely any hot water. The toilet does flush, though. Believe me, I`m right here at the ritz.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lifestyle change for you. I can only imagine. I know you are missing a bidet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). See this? No water. Nobody seems to care though.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I do, and I know you do. And I also want to let you know how nice I think you look. Right now I have been trying to get you

pajamas for years now. A lovely fall collection that I think you have got on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, God, you are great. Well, hopefully I will be out of this place next week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Caught that last. Hopefully I will be out of this place next week.

So Bob Ward did bond out and then went to trial and then, of course, he was convicted. So he spent about five or six years behind bars before that

trial result was thrown out. Bonded out again and he is going back to trial. So clearly, the stakes couldn`t be higher because his life returned

to -- well, probably not normal, but a hell of a lot better than 70 square feet. And what he is facing is a lifetime of 70 square feet if trial number

two doesn`t go his way again.

Tom Verni, former NYPD detective, law enforcement consultant here.

I want to ask you about a piece of evidence in this crime that is critical. The gun, both Diane`s Bob`s DNA is on the gun. When the cops decided to

swabbed the gun and test for DNA, they swab the butt, that`s what you hang on to, and they swab the trigger all with the same swab. No way to tell

whether, Tom, was on the trigger or Diane was on. I mean, isn`t that sort of 101 forensics? Don`t do that.

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes. Ideally you don`t want to do that. Generally, you would swab them separately for that reason. Because if you

have someone who are holding on the past of the gun or even on to the muscle of the gun, you know, it really depends on whose finger is on the

trigger ultimately, right.

So, and part of the argument here is that or the defense is that, you know, she killed herself. And of course, we know the shot was fired from a bit of

distance away where people -- if somebody is going to shoot themselves, it`s going to be done at close range.

BANFIELD: Well, let me play the devil`s advocate there.

VERNI: Being this far away is kind of --.

BANFIELD: So the forensic it 12 to 18 inches away, OK. Do the measurements, so let`s go here on the wide shot, 12 to 18 inches is about here, OK. And

if you and I are in a struggle for a gun and it`s pitched and we`re going back and forth, isn`t it plausible, playing the devil`s advocate here, that

upon one moment it could be right next to you and falling backward it could be 12 to 18 inches away when the trigger goes off but you are still in a

battle.

VERNI: Yes. Well, the thing is here is that, first of all, you have this toxic mix of an angry outburst between them, alcohol and a gun.

BANFIELD: And drugs, too. Apparently she had prescription drugs for the stress that she was under due to the financial issues. And she was

something like I think four times the maximum dosage of antidepressants.

VERNI: Yes. I mean, also, they have to find out was there history of, not only with her depression, but was, is her depression was she suicidal. You

know, I mean, is that the angle he was trying for? She was suicidal. We got into a argue with the gun. She tried to kill herself, you know. Granted, we

are not going to hear from here because she is dead. So he can say whatever he likes to get himself out of the situation because he doesn`t want to be

in a 70 square feet. Who wants in that place of (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: And you can really tell how much he didn`t want to be in the 70 square feet, when they came in to swab his hands for gunshot residue, I

want you to watch his reaction when the investigators came into that interrogation room. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we would like to do is certain things that we collect immediately which would be gunshot residue on your hands. Would you

mind if we did that now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would rather wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t have much choice because it`s so easily loss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. As long as I don`t have any choice. I don`t have any choice?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. It`s one of the ones --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I watch a lot of Miami CSI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It seems awfully friendly. That is for sure.

Kirby, one question for you. As a defense attorney, I`m sure that you have had lots of clients say to you or besiege you how the hell am I going to

survive if I`m going to go into a tuna can? And I`m curious about how a guy like Bob Ward with all the money in the world at one point anyway would be

able to prepare for that.

[19:15:16] KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, the advice I tell my clients when they are going to jail, when they are in the cell, and I just

them, you have got to deal with it. You got to wrap your mind around it. I mean, you can think about how things are on the outside and compare it to

how life is on the inside, but that is never going to lead to any sense of happiness. So you got to focus on one day at a time, one minute, one hour,

whatever you had to focus on. But get your mind right and focus on the case and don`t focus not on your environment.

BANFIELD: I`m still curious about how he was paying for it all. Because at one point he was a tycoon. And another time he was facing bankruptcy. And

so, it`s not cheap to, you know, defend yourself against second degree murder. Certainly not cheap to do it twice.

Kirby, thank you. Tom Verni, thank you as well here. And put my thanks to Ray Caputo as well for that.

We are going to continue to watch that story for you. Because me thinks that this trial is going to be interesting. And I`m curious to find out if

there will be a new theory. It is always the way.

A 16-year-old disappears on her way to the bus stop in the morning. Four days later she was found dead, not close either, in a field miles and miles

away from her home. And the big clue that could point investigators to whomever is responsible for this may just lay in the incredible set of pink

Nikes that she once bought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:10] BANFIELD: Teenagers do not choose their sneakers lightly. Ask any parent. Those sneakers can be the source of a lot of household drama.

So when 16-year-old Mujey Dumbuya decided to choose those pink Nikes, and laced them up two weeks ago, you can only assume she was feeling pretty fly

on the way to the bus stop. But if she planned to show those Nikes off to the kids on the bus, it didn`t happen.

Mujey never made it there. And neither did those Nikes. Instead, she was found four days later in a field 50 miles away from that bus stop and Mujey

was dead. But what makes her case even more puzzling was that she was wearing only one of those prized pink sneakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAJA COMEH, VICTIM`S AUNT: Who would want to hurt that little angel? Who would really want to hurt Mujey? What did she ever do to anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: As random as that crime seems, there may be a glaring clue apart from the sneakers. Mujey was scheduled to testify as a star witness in a

sexual assault case. Somehow that man had been let out on bond, but not anymore.

With me is Rachel Glaser. She is a reporter for CNN affiliate WWMT.

Rachel, what is the story of the man out on bond, Quinn Anthony James? And what is his connection to Mujey?

RACHEL GLASER, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WWMT (on the phone): Well, Quinn Anthony James was released on bond after he had been accused of raping

Mujey. He had assaulted her several times. And James Quinn was her boyfriend`s uncle. So that`s how they knew each other. But he also worked

for the school district where she went to school.

BANFIELD: So if I have it right, he is up on charges for the sexual assault of Mujey. He bonds out and I think at about $100,000, if I`m not mistaken.

And correct me anywhere I`m wrong, Rachel.

GLASER: No. You are right. It was a $100,00 which is the minimum that the prosecutor asked for.

BANFIELD: He`s out on the minimum. OK, he is out on the minimum. And how long before Mujey is supposed to be the star witness in the sex assault

trial that she is the victim in and he is the defendant, how long before that trial does she just all of a sudden go missing on her way to the bus

stop?

GLASER: So that trial date was set for April, early April, April 9th. And she was reported missing January 24th. Now something interesting that we

learn today was that January 23rd is the day that Quinn James was notified that the case was going to trial. One day later, just one day later, that`s

when Mujey went missing. And then four days after that is when her body was found.

BANFIELD: That sounds awfully suspect. So the pink sneaker, you know, that is a very strange clue. You know, when a person goes missing and then is

found murdered, it`s not typical that there be only one shoe. Do you know anything more about that clue?

GLASER: We really don`t. I know that police gave us a lot of very specifics on what she was wearing. She was wearing a Cinderella t-shirt, this baby

binning gym shoes, only one was found. And they are at a disadvantage of trying to fill in the four-day gap of where Mujey was and what happened. So

sent out a lot of specific details which is unusual about what she was wearing. But we don`t know anything about why only one shoe was found. They

have been very tight-lipped on the status of the body of when it was discovered.

BANFIELD: OK. So I want to be real clear right now. For Quinn Anthony James, as coincidental as all this seems, he is not a suspect right now in

the disappearance and then death of Mujey. He is not even a person of interest. The only thing the detectives in this case will say is that they

are looking at him in this case. That they are looking at him.

But I do want to go over some of his background because he has a pretty significant rap sheet. And the crimes are serious in his past. In 1991,

armed robbery.

Let`s go back to his rap sheet. Thank you.

Armed robbery. And then also he has got this attempt prisoner possession of weapons. And there`s two counts there in 2003. Attempt prisoner possession

sounds kind of weird in terms of the wording but it basically means you are in the Hughes cow and you were found with a weapon. And that`s never good.

So when you see the two dashes, it really means three crimes, right. Attempted -- armed robbery one and then the attempted prisoner possession

two. So in this particular state, Michigan, one more and you are in big trouble because he has already got three. So the fourth offense, no matter

what kind of felony it is, and you are looking at a minimum of 25 years to life, 25 years for the next --

So let`s just be clear here, Rachel. He is right now facing another sex assault case in addition to the sex assault case of Mujey. And maybe since

she can`t be a star witness in the case against her, who knows if there will be a conviction there, and I believe they were several counts, four

counts against Mujey, there is another victim somewhere. Do you know anything about that case?

[19:26:47] GLASER: Yes. That case dates back to 2014. And this was another teenage girl who said that she was raped by James. And similar to Mujey`s

case, she said she knew him, she knew him for about a year and she named him to police, the Kent County sheriff`s office. But investigators there

say that the prosecutor`s office declined to press charges because of a lack of evidence.

BANFIELD: Surprise, surprise, they picked him up. Surprise, surprise, of 2014 case, right. This rather this second case would be a fifth sexual

assault count against him. They have picked him up, 2014 case. Here they are, 2018, and they picked him up and put I`m away. And they are not saying

why. But I don`t know. That sounds coincidental. It`s an easy way to hold someone when you want to investigate him and hope he doesn`t fly the coop.

But he is not in this point a person of interest or suspect, according to police, in the Mujey Dumbuya murder.

So real quickly, Tom Verni, former NYPD detective, law enforcement consultant. The question I have for you is, when you have a guy who is up

on four sex assault charges and she is the star witness and she goes missing, why on earth would the police say she is a runaway. Because that`s

what they said. She is a runaway. She is a star witness for a rape case coming up.

VERNI: Yes. This is really confusing to me. I mean, look. We don`t know for sure, right. So is there a possibility that she could be a runaway? It`s

possible. Is it probable? Not likely. I mean, this guy clearly because is quite a but of a menace to society for the last quarter of a century. I

mean, you know, from the reports I was reading, his record dates back to 1991. And he has been, you know, brought up on charges like this before of

raping someone. So with this case, if I`m not mistaken, he says, the sex was consensual.

BANFIELD: He has admitted to having sex with the 16-year-old and he says it was consensual. He is 42. He is dumb as paint to say it was conventional.

It`s a child. They can`t consent.

VERNI: Right, exactly. So look. Clearly, we could establish just a baseline that there`s a motive for him to be, you know, to have committed this

crime. Because look, if he has gone away for the rest of his life, what is he got to lose?

BANFIELD: Well, Tom, even if she thinks she is going to meet her 42-year- old lover, it is an amber alert. Because that`s a crime in progress. So why would they say -- first of all, the victim`s aunt was real clear on what

she thought about this whole runaway crap. Have a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMEH: My big sister contacted the police to file a missing person, you know. And then the filing in missing person so she has been working with

the detectives and everything for this, for Mujey. We still couldn`t find her or even hear anything. She didn`t run away. What would make her run

away? She has a family that loves her. She has everybody that loves her around her. What would make her a runaway?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Unless anyone think that Mujey is just another one of those cases, 16-year-old disappears. That cute pink backpack and those cute Nike

tennis shoes should at least give some indication what you could remember her by, that beautiful million dollar smile of hers and then how about the

fact that she love to dance because her aunt really put it in perspective. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAJA CORNEH, VICTIM`S AUNT: She loves to dance. She loves to dance. She would just do video. Because when I`m like, why are you dancing? She like,

because I`m going to be a superstar someday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Probably not the way she would have expected to be on television. And here is this question. Let`s just say, for instance, that this man,

Quinn Anthony James goes from being someone they`re looking at to someone they end up actually charging in Mujey`s death.

Let me bring in Kirby Clements on this one. Kirby, as a defense attorney, he has admitted to having what he thinks was consensual sex. And if his DNA

is anywhere near or on her in that awful field that she was found in, could he use that as an excuse and say, well, sure, we had sex and you can charge

me with that but I didn`t kill her.

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think in that -- in that point, I mean, as a defense lawyer -- first of all, are you going to be mad at your

client for just making that comment that he had consensual sex because it`s still going punishable by, you know, what he`s looking at 25 minimum up to

life. So, you`re already upset about that. And then, if you have his DNA in that field where she was found, you`re the last person with this woman --

with this girl, I should say. You`re the last person with this girl, your DNA is there, her body is there. She`s only got one shoe which suggests

almost like a struggle. There`s no -- I mean, it`s a strong circumstantial case. As a defense lawyer, you would argue that it`s a circumstantial case

and perhaps something else happened to her. But as far as -- as a former sex crimes prosecutor, I can tell you that would be a strong circumstantial

case that back in my prosecutor days, I`d have won.

BANFIELD: Yes, well, no matter what, he`s already admitted to his fourth felony. He`s already admitted I had sex with her but it was consensual.

Ding that. You`re 42 years old, she`s 16. Instant felony. Instant fourth strike. Instant 25 to life. We`ll see how this one plays out.

Rachel Glaser (ph), thank you. Tom Verni (ph) and Kirby Clements, thank you as well. Standby if you will.

We all know that love runs deep for mom. But what happens when you find out that mom isn`t your mom, but is instead a thief who stole you?

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Everybody knows that a baby`s first word is often "mama" no matter who is holding her. And Kamiyah Mobley likely gazed up into the eyes

above her babbling that magical word to the delight of that woman above her. Only that woman was not her mama. That woman was a baby thief,

allegedly. Kamiyah`s real mama was miles and miles and miles away, wiping her tears and catching her breath, still bewildered that someone had

snatched her new-born baby girl from the hospital at just eight hours old. She would remain bewildered for 18 years. Kamiyah, however, would continue

to look up into those eyes and say mama for all 18 of those years, none the wiser. But even when she did find out the truth about that mama, those

feelings did not go away immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMIYAH MOBLEY, ABDUCTED CHILD: I still love her. I still feel the same about her. Nothing -- there`s nothing different. There`s nothing different.

I`m processing it like I said. Well, I`m a big girl. It`s just like (INAUDIBLE) at my front door right now but I`m a big girl. I can process it

all. But like I said, my feelings towards my mother will never change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Hard to remember that there are now going to be feelings for two mothers, the one she thinks was her mother and the mother who is her

mother, who she had to start to get to know.

With me now, Roger Henderson. He`s director of WBOB in Jacksonville, Florida. It`s going to be hard to use the terminology here, Roger, but for

the fake mother, that`s what I`ll have to call her, what is the legal situation as of a few hours ago?

ROGER HENDERSON, WBOB NEWS DIRECTOR: Well, she was set to go to trial, Ashleigh, as early as the beginning of next week. However, looks like there

has been a delay in the case at this point. And legal experts are at least suggesting there`s a possibility that they may need to test the mental

fitness of the mother -- the fake mother at the time the crime was committed. They`re looking at other things such as sentencing guidelines

that could come into play that are different today in 2018 than they were in the late 1990s when the crime occurred, and other areas. So, a lot of

evidence against the fake mom and we`ll have to wait to see how this one turns out.

[19:39:53] BANFIELD: So, fake mom who you`re looking at here, her name is Gloria Williams. And when this all started to unravel a year ago -- almost

exactly a year ago. It was January 10th last year. The police showed up and hauled Ms. Williams down to the cop shop and wanted to have a word with

her. And wouldn`t you guess what her reaction would be, knowing that she`s had this secret for 18 years? Have a listen to how she dealt with the cold

case they brought up to her?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA WILLIAMS, WOMAN WHO ABDUCTED KAMIYAH MOBLEY: Tell me what this is all about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, we`re from Jacksonville. OK. Working a cold case unit. Talking to a few people I just talked to. Alexis, your daughter,

and stuff. And she wanted straight to the truth or the fact of all of that, OK? Working a cold case, we get cold cases, old cases. One of them is a

missing person`s case we`ve got from 1998. I`ve gotten two leads from NCMEC where -- if you know what NCMEC is?

WILLIAMS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

WILLIAM. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. The information alone, some of those leads last two years to talk to you and your daughter.

WILLIAMS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. That`s why we`re here.

WILLIAMS: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you -- has anyone talked to you about why you`re here?

WILLIAMS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Are you willing to talk to me about this investigation?

WILLIAMS: Do you have a warrant for my arrest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I do not.

WILLIAMS: OK. Then, I don`t want to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t want to talk to us or say anything about it?

WILLIAMS: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that`s an interesting reaction. If you have no idea why you`re there and then, no, I do not want to talk to you about it. Look,

some people are just wise and they know to get a lawyer right away. Other people not so wise, but they know when not to get themselves in trouble.

Right? So then, there was the whole notion of whether Ms. Williams would end up being cooperative at all, with anything at all in that room. Have a

look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Why are you taking photographs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just need one for the case file. Can you look at (INAUDIBLE)?

WILLIAMS: Why do you need to take my photo? You don`t have my permission to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, there`s no expectation of privacy in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing an investigation so it`s part of our investigation. We`re not going to ask you any questions or anything like

that. It`s something we need to take back with us to Jacksonville.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, I would appreciate it if you wouldn`t take it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just for the investigative file.

WILLIAMS: Well, I`ll have to let my lawyer know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, that`s fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK, Roger Henderson, did the -- there are so many victims in this case, right? There`s Kamiyah who probably doesn`t feel like a victim

because she just knows the mom she`s always thought was her mom. And then, there`s the woman who had her baby stolen from her for 18 years, who I`m

sure would desperately like to have a relationship with her child who is now a woman, an adult. But ultimately, are they going to be able to get

Kamiyah? You know, she knows her name as Alexis but can they compel her to testify against her fake mom?

HENDERSON: You know, I don`t know the answer to that question. But what you bring up is very interesting because the principal victim in this case

absolutely adores and worships the ground that the defendant walks upon. And to -- if she is to testify, if they are able to force her to do so, and

I`m not an attorney, but if they do, what type of testimony --

BANFIELD: What she give -- right.

HENDERSON: -- is she going to bring forth before the jury?

BANFIELD: So, Kirby Clements, as a defense attorney, is that somebody you would call a hostile witness even though she`s just an 18-year-old girl and

she`s a victim in all of this, too, but there is that technical description of a hostile witness and you can lead them through a case if you go to

trial.

CLEMENTS: You can lead them through the case. I mean, you can`t compel them to say what they`re going to say. They can compel her to testify to answer

your earlier question, yes, because she doesn`t have a -- there`s no privilege that prevents her from testifying. And she may well get up and

testify as to how wonderful a mother and how great her childhood was with this woman. But those aren`t the elements of the crime so that still

wouldn`t help the defense in this case. So, she could be hostile, she could be whatever, but all she`s going to say is this is the woman I knew was my

mother.

BANFIELD: Honestly, the ripple effect of this crime and the pain and suffering among people who don`t even feel like victims. Honestly, it`s

just sort of an astounding story. One of the sticking points in the case against Gloria Williams, fake mom, I keep having to quality her fake mom,

is the little girl. That 8-hour-old baby who is now 19 years old. A year later, she`s 19 years old. Gloria is accused of kidnapping her. The

feelings that Kamiyah, also known as Alexis, the feelings that she has for that woman as she sits in a cell are pretty astounding. Wait until you find

out what she`s doing every day.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Gloria Williams was supposed to go on trial on Monday on charges that she kidnapped a baby 18 years ago and then raised her as her own. But

jury selection has been put on hold and there`s word that there may be a plea deal in the works right now. And one has to really wonder if the

relationship between that stolen baby who is now a grown-up and the woman accused of stealing her may just be playing a part in this case.

[19:50:06] Roger Henderson and Robi Ludwig, and Kirby Clements are all back with me now. And Robbie, I want to go to you about that because this is

just one for the heartstrings on so many levels.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSY.D, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes,

BANFIELD: Kamiyah is now 19. And she`s only ever known Gloria as her mother, but that real mother has been a victim for 19 years.

LUDWIG: Right.

BANFIELD: 18, yes, but still doesn`t really have her daughter 19 years later.

LUDWIG: Now, that`s the heartbreak, right? Not only was this daughter stolen from her, but this other mother also captured the heart of her

biological daughter. So, the mother is heartbroken on multiple level. But you have to remember, too, that this daughter is a teen. What do teens do?

They rebel. So, at a time when this teen should be rebelling against her mother, her, I guess, fake mother? The opposite is happening because she`s

getting pressure to not like the fake mother, hate the fake mother, love your real mother, and she`s saying, I`m not going to do that. I`m going to

love my fake mother as much as I want to.

BANFIELD: What you`re saying is, I think, spot on because the word that we`re getting, reports are that Kamiyah, you know, she knows herself as

Alexis. She was born Kamiyah Mobley but she`s been named all these 19 years Alexis Manigo. The word is that she calls her mom at that jail every day.

LUDWIG: Yes. So, she`s making a statement. She`s making a statement nobody is going to tell me who to love, nobody is going to tell me who to have a

relationship with, and regardless of what my fake mother did -- and here`s the odd thing, this mother obviously committed a crime, right? But what if

she was emotionally the right match for her daughter? What if emotionally she really was the right mother for her daughter and that`s why the

daughter loves her so much? It`s an odd thing to think about.

BANFIELD: Well, she -- well, she can`t possibly know because she didn`t get to sample Shanara Mobley, her real mom.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: And by the way, to that end, I want to actually -- just play for you a moment where Kamiyah Mobley talks about how much she loves her -- how

much she loves her fake mom, Gloria Williams. I interviewed her on this program a year ago. And I guess I didn`t expect to hear differently but to

hear her say how much she loves this woman who is alleged to have committed such a horrific crime that she herself is victimized by, although, we don`t

know how much yet that she understands, but this is what Kamiyah Mobley told me a year ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOBLEY: I am going to tell my mother, well, she knows this. I`m pretty sure she knows this. I love her to death. Keep your head up and I love you. Hang

in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Robi, the question I have is that if Shanara, who is ultimately the worst victim, in this case, the real mother, the real mother

who had her baby stolen at eight hours, she wants justice.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: She may want vengeance. I don`t know. But if it were me, I`d want justice, I`d want vengeance, I`d want the book thrown at this woman who

stole the heart and the baby away from me. But then, there`s this twist, because if Shanara is the star witness in this case against her own

daughter`s love of her life, she`s pushing that daughter away by testifying and going for the jugular, wouldn`t she?

LUDWIG: Well, listen. I would -- I would recommend that the birth mother consult with a psychologist on how to handle it. And maybe it`s best to

just share the facts of the story and the impact this crime had on her emotionally. And let the court decide, you know, who gets vengeance. You

know, let the court take vengeance so that the birth mother doesn`t seem like the evil one here.

BANFIELD: Can you imagine what she`s going through, what Shanara would be going through.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BANFIELD: Wanting to get up and say, I am a victim and this is my impact statement while looking across the court and hoping not to shove --

LUDWIG: Well, maybe she could say --

BANFIELD: -- further away the daughter she wants back.

LUDWIG: -- I`m not doing that because I love my daughter and I respect her feelings.

BANFIELD: The heartbreak. And again, the ripple effect of this crime. It was not just a stolen baby. It was stolen lives and stolen families.

Robi, thank you. And Roger and Kirby, thank you as well.

LUDWIG: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So, I`m going to show you something, and you might think this is about the worst composite sketch you have ever seen. Yes, that`s it. Kind

of looks like a kid drew it. But if you don`t think that a childish drawing can render a real-life arrest, I got news for you next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Never underestimate the power of minimalist art. This extraordinarily childish sketch that was

actually drawn by a crime witness turns out it worked. Making a huge difference. It helped to lead police right to this guy in Pennsylvania.

This suspect on the right and on the left is accused of swiping money at a market and now, there is a warrant out for his arrest. If you look closely,

you can see the resemblance. But if you see either character out there on the streets somewhere, call your police. Go figure.

We`ll see you right back here Monday night, 6:00 Eastern for CRIME & JUSTICE. And now, you can listen to our show anytime. Download our podcast

on Apple podcasts or iHeart radio, Stitcher, TuneIn, or wherever you get your podcast. It`s all your CRIME & JUSTICE ticks in one place.

Thanks so much for watching, everybody. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END