Return to Transcripts main page
CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
Disturbing Claims, Did Bad Breakup Lead To Killing Spree. Aired 6- 6:30p ET
Aired April 30, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone. I am Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the Crime and Justice.
Tonight, a suspected serial killer is finally behind wars, the man police say, who spent a decade attacking and killing Californians in their homes.
But we are only just starting to learn who this man is, and was. What he has been doing for the last 40 years. Michael Christian has been tracking
the very latest. What have you found?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: Ashleigh, we keep hearing more and more details about this alleged serial killer, each one is more
disturbing than the previous one. Also, we`ll tell you tonight what cops think could be a possible motive for his actions and also why they think
there may be more victims than originally thought.
BANFIELD: So fascinating. Michael, we`ll check in with you in a bit.
Also, they may be known for their drama, but the real housewives of New York have never delivered something quite like this, handcuffed in the
backseat of a police car after hitting an officer in the head and then threatening to kill him. Justin Freiman, this video just came out. What
are we learning?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: That is right. We`re actually learning that this outrageous video caught inside of the police car after
the arrest, we see not only fighting with the police, but trying to escape.
BANFIELD: Unbelievable. All right, so the countess has some explaining to do. We are going to check in on that video and the story as well.
And then later, what it looks like to retire after 30 years on the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have planned up a good times and a lot of good memories over my career, and I appreciate it. I`ll cherish them for the
rest of my life. I wish you all well and a safe tour of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: We`re going to go inside that patrol car and hear that full radio response. First, though, let me get you to the top story, an arrest,
40 years in the making. And the suspect might not be the person that you`ve pictured. Because when 72-year-old Joseph DeAngelo looked like
this, showing his face in court on Friday, to be charged with two counts of murder with many more charges expected to come down the pike, he looked a
whole lot different than the able-bodied young man that we are now seeing in brand new pictures tonight.
And the comparison you might say uncanny. Just take a look at the sketches versus the real young man. The healthy navy man and former police officer
who police say spent his nights attacking innocent Californians inside their homes, raping young women, with their families in the same room, and
killing at least 12 innocent people.
Mr. DeAngelo looked like a weak old man hardly able to speak in court. And usually people who look like this in wheelchairs might evoke some sympathy.
But this old man was handcuffed to that wheelchair, because he is accused of committing 50 plus brutal attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANNE HILL, RANCHO CORDOVA RESIDENT: Oh, I don`t care that he is in a wheelchair. I don`t care one bit. My daughter said the fact that he had
been committing these crimes when he was a young man, versus being an old man now, the only sadness I have in that is that when they throw the book
at him, his life sentence will not be very long, it will not do justice to all of the crimes and all of the people that he has hurt over the years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Investigators across the country have spent 40 years trying to track that man. And now thanks to DNA evidence, they just might have found
their killer. And may have just put him behind bars right where a he started, in Northern California. But why would he have killed so many
innocent people? That is still being determined. And the clue to that motive just might lie with a name that one of his victims claimed he
screamed while he was allegedly raping her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL HOLES, COLD CASE INVESTIGATOR: I hate you Bonnie, I hate you Bonnie, while he is sobbing. So we always felt that there was a woman named Bonnie
in his life. That was significant to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in my panel now, Ali Wolf, is a reporter for CNN affiliate KTXL, she is live from Citrus Heights just outside of Joseph
James DeAngelo`s home. Also trial attorney, Randy Kessler is with me. And on the phone, Larry Crompton, former Sergeant with the Contra Costa County
Sheriff`s Office, as well the author of "Sudden terror," clearly the story behind this story tonight.
Ali, if I can begin with you, two sides that you can cover. You were in court on Friday, you are at the home of this alleged serial killer tonight.
And you`ve spent some time in that community. Walk me through who you`ve been able to talk to and what you have learned about the man, who he is now
as an old man, who he has been for the last 40 years.
[18:05:09] ALI WOLF, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE KTXL: Well, Ashleigh, a big difference between who investigators believe the East Area Rapist was, that
he was committing crimes terrorizing California form here in Northern to Southern California. And here in this Citrus Heights neighborhood, this is
a suburban community east of Sacramento. Neighbors are still in disbelief. They say it just doesn`t match up, because the man they knew, Joseph
DeAngelo, who is now the suspected East Area Rapist was a man who was helpful.
They say he did yell from time to time. But he helped neighbors, for example, one neighbor needed to borrow a glass of milk, he brought them a
gallon, he was helpful with cars, he was a mechanic. And so, they are just in absolutely disbelief. They also say that he was a very active man who
was constantly working on his yard, his yard which is just behind me is kept meticulously. We`re told he was constantly mowing his yard, working
on his cars and his boats.
And you talked about him in court. I was in the courtroom on Friday. And we saw a different picture. We saw an old man who was in a wheelchair,
looking pretty weak. He was struggling to keep his eyes open even. And when the Judge spoke to him he was delayed. It looked as though he didn`t
fully understand the Judge, whether or not there was something going on or he was putting that on is still unknown.
But a very different descriptions of the man who neighbors know here who is suspected to be the East Area Rapist and the man we saw in court and the
man who committed so many crimes across California, 42 years ago.
BANFIELD: Ali, it`s so remarkable to see that home behind you. It looks so serene. But to think of what kind of person might have been living
there. And again, you know, Mr. DeAngelo is innocent until proven guilty. But the amount of evidence that seems to be mounting against him, the DNA
alone and the tracking that has gone on for four decades, it is an absolutely remarkable story. But there is more to him than meets the eye.
They`re saying now that he is depressed, and that he is on suicide watch. I want you to classify for me the second part of why I bring you on the
program tonight. And that is because you were in court on Friday. The man you saw in that courtroom slumped over to the side, seemingly like an
incapable old man.
And the stories we`re now being told about that same guy recently being going 100 miles an hour or so on a motorcycle, aptly fixing his daughter`s
car, because he is a mechanic by trade, building furniture, man handling heavy items at his home. It seems like a lot of people are saying, he is
putting on an act in that courtroom. What did you witness?
WOLF: Well, you know, if I didn`t know the back story, and what we`ve heard so far through our reporting in Sacramento, I think I might have
thought that he was a man who had some health problems. He is older. He is 72 years old. We don`t know what he had experienced while he was put
behind bars. A lot of that has been under wraps. But, you know, I would have believed it. But a lot of people are really questioning based on what
the neighbors are telling us here in his community saying that, you know, just days before he was taken into custody he was out and about, he was an
active man, as you said.
And just a couple minutes ago I spoke to somebody who worked with Joseph DeAngelo. DeAngelo was a mechanic for many, many years in Roseville, which
is near his home. And they say he was missing part of one of his fingers and that he was somebody who never called in sick, ever over the course of
decades, and that he was extremely paranoid, almost, of getting in trouble at work. So that is another description of him that seems a little
different.
BANFIELD: But they also gave you a strange description of his hand. Can you describe for me what they talked about with regard to his physical
ailment?
WOLF: Well, the co-worker we spoke to says that he just told him that it was a navy injury that one of his fingers, part of one of his fingers was
missing. And so he said that happened while he was in the navy. And so, we don`t really know too much about that. But one thing that is
significant about that is that in these crimes, the East Area Rapist was wearing gloves. So if, it was, in fact was DeAngelo, it would be something
that he would be hiding perhaps under gloves, because that would be something that the victims would notice, and they would report to police.
And that would be a telltale sign as to who their man was for all these years.
BANFIELD: Ali, that is absolutely fascinating. Because if it was a navy injury, you`re absolutely right, that would have happened before all of
those rapes and those murders. And as a police officer, he would have known well that that would be identifying evidence. So fascinating detail
that you found out from that co-worker.
[18:10:10] Also, if you already mentioned it, I`m trying to process a lot of things that are coming to us live, that he never called in sick. If you
already mentioned that. Skip over to the spot about the discarded DNA. I had been digging everywhere I can to find out if they followed him to a
mall and got a cup that he threw away, but it turned out it came right from that home behind you. Have you been able to fair it out what it was they
got, whether they post as garbage man, what they found two times, they had to get that discarded DNA from him?
WOLF: I personally have not figured out where they got that DNA. I actually asked one of the lead investigators on this case who`s been
working it for decades, or for a decade and he said that he couldn`t reveal that. So hopefully that is something we find out. I`m sure we`re going to
be learning a lot more as this case progresses in court.
BANFIELD: Ali, don`t go anywhere. I want to go over to Larry Crompton now. Larry, the most intriguing part of this, I mean, there are so many
intriguing parts of it, but there are so many crimes to process. And, you know, you`re from Contra Costa there, to my knowledge, at this point, no
murders to prosecute in your jurisdiction.
But, you know, you having worked as a former sergeant, you know, with a County Sheriff`s Office in Contra Costa, there are all of those rapes and
justice for your community will be very, very difficult to find given that the statute of limitations has passed for those rapes.
So I want to get you to weigh in on what catching this person for murders in other jurisdictions will do for the victims you dealt with, the people
you coped with, the investigation that you did, knowing now you can`t get him on the rapes.
LARRY CROMPTON, FORMER SERGEANT, CONTRA COSTA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: The fact that he is in custody is the thing. They can finally get closure.
And I had the opportunity to talk to these victims, and I knew what was going through their minds. I knew the terror that he put in them. They
all knew, all knew that he wanted to kill them. And they were extremely afraid.
And it just -- what people don`t understand is in 1976, in California, there was over 9,000 forcible rapes reported, only 45 percent were cleared.
So, if these people, they were looking at it that they may never find closure, but now they do. And in talking to them, and knowing what was
going through their mind at that time, you knew they had to have closure in order to be able to continue with their life.
BANFIELD: And stand by for a moment, if you will. I want to also ask, if I can, Keith Comos. You know, actually, we`ve just lost that guest. I
apologize. We don`t have Keith Comos with us, Larry, if you`re still there --
CROMPTON: Yes.
BANFIELD: -- there was also a report that came out today, and a lot of the news is sort of compiling quickly, new developments that are coming in from
so many jurisdictions. So you`ll have to forgive me, because I know, not all of it will be coming from the Contra Costa Sheriff`s Department which
is your jurisdiction. But there is this report that he had numerous guns that were registered to him. Does that surprise you? And if not, is there
anything else that you`re learning now about this man and the 40 years he is been living that does surprise you?
CROMPTON: Well, the fact that he had several guns didn`t surprise me. The fact that they were registered May. But that wasn`t the main -- the main
thing. In all the attacks that he had, and the ones that he -- the people that he threatened, he used different guns. So we knew he had more than
one. And we knew that he knew about guns, because he explained what he was going to do. He would put a gun to the man`s head and cock it.
So we knew he had that hand right from the very first rape, we knew in looking at those reports and talking to the victims, he wanted to kill
them. And to do that, in order to threaten, he had to have those guns, because that is what he put in their mind.
BANFIELD: So, just quickly, let me jump in with Randy Kessler. Randy, the guns that were used in some of those crimes and those murders, if they do
not find the murder weapon, it has been 40 years, does it matter and is the DNA match enough?
RANDY KESSLER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yes, the DNA match is probably more than enough. I`d rather have a DNA match than a gun.
[18:15:00] I mean, DNA is a science. And people believe science and scientist more than they believe guns. I mean, you know, anybody can have
a gun. There are lots of different types of guns, but anyone`s DNA is unique. So I have much rather have DNA evidence about the prosecution than
a gun.
BANFIELD: But if I`m the defense attorney, I say DNA evidence is excellent, the people who handle it are not. And that --
KESSLEY: That is true.
BANFIELD: -- that problem could arise. Randy, don`t go anywhere. The East Area Rapist, the Golden State Killer, no matter what you called this
man, he left a lot of victims behind. But you are only just starting to hear about them. Because another victim showed up today. And it`s not
someone who was raped and it is not someone who is murdered. It was someone who was jailed for a murder he didn`t commit.
And now the authorities are wondering if, in fact, the Golden State Killer did it instead and let that man rot. And he is joining me next.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still tracking disturbing new details about the man suspected of attacking 45 women in their homes, maybe more, and killing 12
innocent people before going into hiding for 40 years. Though, if you saw him for the first time this week, with no idea what he is accused of, you
might not see a cold-blooded killer here in this courtroom. You might have seen, as his lawyer put it, a depressed and fragile old man sitting in a
wheelchair, struggling to raise his voice loud enough for the judge to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In custody, DeAngelo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Joseph James DeAngelo your true and correct legal name? I`m sorry?
JOSEPH JAMES DEANGELO, GOLDEN STATE KILLER SUSPECT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: According to his lawyer, DeAngelo is, quote, depressed and fragile. But the crimes that he is accused of committing are anything but.
And now he is going to have to answer for them no matter what his condition. And he`ll probably have to explain certain stories coming just
out now about how he may have sat in on community meetings and targeted the people who spoke out in those meetings. Or that his list of victims may
have included even more people than any of us ever knew, including the boyfriend of a woman who just spent 39 years behind bars for a murder that
he did not commit.
My panel is still with me. And I want to bring in Simi Valley Detective, Mike Bender. And Craig Coley. Detective Bender worked for two decades to
free Craig Coley, who was wrongly convicted of a 1978, double murder. Craig Coley was released from prison last fall after 39 years. Those
killings are now being investigated to see if there is a link to Joseph James DeAngelo, the Golden State Killer. Thank you so much for being with
me, Mr. Bender, Mr. Coley. Can you both hear me, OK?
CRAIG COLEY, SERVED 39 YEARS FOR MURDER HE DIDN`T COMMIT: Yes.
MIKE BENDER, FORMER SIMI VALLEY DETECTIVE: Yes.
BANFIELD: First, Mr. Coley, let me go to you. The news breaking today that authorities are now looking at Mr. DeAngelo as possibly connected to
the murder that you spent four decades behind bars for wrongfully, your initial feelings on that?
COLEY: Go, law. You know, I`m all for the truth. If it`s him, then I`m happy for the family. And for the community that can finally put this to
rest, as it should have been done 40 years ago.
BANFIELD: Can I ask you, if it is him, there has been so much talk of the victims that the -- that the Golden State Killer left behind, the rape
victims who survived, upwards of 50 of them, the 12 murder victims, maybe more, the family members of those rape victims and murder victims who were
left behind, and if it is him, you would join the list of people whose lives were destroyed by that killer. Do you see yourself in that same
collection?
COLEY: I wouldn`t say my life was destroyed, no. I would say --
BANFIELD: 40 years ago?
COLEY: Well, I have two choices. I can grieve about it. I can be angry about it and I can go on and let it keep ruining my life or I can look
forward, as I`m doing, and move ahead, and pray for the people that are his victims. And their families.
BANFIELD: Can I ask -- can I ask you how you are so positive? And I ask that honestly, because I think so many people who are watching this right
now, if they were in your shoes, they would be seething. They would feel cheated out of children and grand-children, and middle age and life and fun
and trees and oxygen and grass. And all the things that we live life for. And yet you seem to be so accepting of all of this. How is that?
COLEY: Well, all of the things that you just mentioned were created by our lord and savior, by god.
[18:25:00] And the thing is, that I am a faithful man, and I believe in my lord and savior. And I`m educated in that. I got my degree while I was in
prison. And that is where I get my strength from. That is where I get my hope from. That is where I get my desire to go on with life.
BANFIELD: I wish I could be more like you, Craig. That is astounding that you have -- you have done 40 years of hard time, 39 years of hard time.
Can I ask you, are you following this case -- does it matter to you, does it matter to you if the Golden State Killer was the killer of Ronda White,
your girlfriend at the time, and her 4-year-old son Donald, you took the blame for all those decades, would it matter if it`s him or not?
COLEY: Absolutely, it would matter, it would matter to her family. Her family is still living. She still has a brother, two brothers and a sister
and she has nieces and nephews, people that were robbed of the fact that they couldn`t get to know her, because she was not around. But yes, I will
absolutely be related to know that this is finally put to rest. And it`s scientifically proved to be the fact that this man, if, in fact, he is the
killer.
BANFIELD: You know, the law stipulates that when someone is wrongfully convicted and spends that much time behind bars, you are due something.
And in this settlement from the authorities, I believe it was upwards of -- just a little less than $2 million in remuneration that you are either due
or have been paid. I guess one of the questions, I think would be on a lot of people`s mind, is that enough? Does it compensate you at all for the
loss of 40 years?
COLEY: Well, the answer to that would be unequivocally no, you can`t replace that. All you can do is enhance your life. Go forward. And enjoy
the things that you have ahead of you, and not worry about the things that are behind you, because you have no control over that.
The victims` compensation board that awarded me compensation for 13,990 at $140 a day. And I haven`t received that money yet, but I`m going to get it
at some point in time. And after it goes through their process. And it`s going to help me to live a better life. But I don`t know how much I would
have earned at 39 years. But I would imagine it`s somewhere around that. I don`t know. But no, it won`t replace that time. Nothing can replace
time. You can only move forward and live ahead and help others.
BANFIELD: Let me tell you, the time that you spent behind bars, clearly you did it right. Finding, you know, the lord, and learning the lessons of
life and being a forgiving man, you did it right. You did what I think all of us hope is going on behind bars, people finding the right path and
clearly it sounds like you have. I do have one more question for you. I did the math. You went in when you were 31.
COLEY: Yes.
BANFIELD: You`re coming out at 71. Let`s think about that for a second. Going in at 31, you are coming out at 71. You don`t have kids, correct?
COLEY: No, I don`t have any children. That is been taken from me.
BANFIELD: So clearly no kids, no grand-kids.
COLEY: Right.
BANFIELD: I think I`m told you want to get a dog. Is that correct?
COLEY: Yes. I`m going to get a service dog, absolutely, yes. I`ve always had dogs when I was a free man. And they`re great companions, they are
good pets.
BANFIELD: Well, you are a free man now. And I am so fascinated just to hear your outlook, how you connect to this man who`s now been arrested,
possibly, possibly, for the crime that you paid for wrongly.
And Mike Bender, I want to bring him into the conversation, Craig, because Mike was a Simi Valley police detective. And Mike, you knew, you worked on
this case, and something said to you that we got the wrong guy in Craig. And you devoted decades to trying to free him. What was it, what was it
that had you -- got your Spidey senses tingling that something was wrong with that conviction?
BENDER: The list is very long. But originally I was guided to that when I was a detective at the police department. And as soon as I opened up the
murder book and started going through it, it was clear that Craig was not the right suspect and I had much better suspects in mind at the time.
There was a lot of red flags that had to do with everything, his alibi was accounted for except for maybe 20 minutes. And if you looked at the crime
scene, there was no way he could have done everything that happened. It just didn`t fit, there was a better suspect than Craig at the time.
BANFIELD: And you were dogged in getting your pursuit of this, to the point where your bosses told you stop, stop investigating this, or you`ll
be fired and you chose to quit, you chose to continue and what you did, you know, obviously has helped greatly in exonerating that man. And are you --
and I only have time, I think -- do we have another block on this? Can you stay after the break? I still have so many more questions for you, Mike
(ph). Can you stay for about two or three minutes?
MIKE BENDER, FORMER SIMI VALLEY DETECTIVE: Sure.
BANFIELD: OK. So the question I have, how fascinated, how intrigued, how connected will you be to this case? How much will you watch and will it be
satisfying if you do find out there`s a link between this man, Joseph James DeAngelo, and the man that Craig Coley served time, the woman that he
served time for killing, how satisfying might it be if that link is established? Back in a moment.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Hello? Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): I`m going to kill you. I`m going to kill you. I`m going to kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The golden state killer, terrorized his victims after their attacks with phone calls like that. But have they now caught him? And what
other damage might still be out there? For instance, my panel is still with me.
I want to bring back Simi Valley detective Mike Bender and Craig Coley. Detective Bender worked for two decades to free Coley, who was wrongly
convicted for a 1978 double murder. Craig Coley was released from prison last fall after 39 years.
Those killings are now being investigated to see if there is a link to the man who`s been arrested, Joseph James DeAngelo. Randy Kessler is still back
with me as well.
Detective Bender, before I went to break, I said would it matter? Are you following this case? Would there be resolution for you? Would it matter if
it was the golden state killer, who they proved to be the killer of Rhonda and her son Donald? Or if they proved it to be anyone else, would there be
a difference?
MIKE BENDER, FORMER SIMI VALLEY DETECTIVE: A huge difference. That`s the open end here. We want resolution for the victims` family. My goal
initially was to solve the murders and free an innocent man. Craig was released and exonerated completely. And now we have some unfinished
business here with the conclusion of identifying the suspect.
I have complete faith in the Simi Valley Police Department, Chief Livingstone, Dan Swanson (ph). They`re not going to stop until they catch
the guy. If it happens to be the golden state killer, there will be a resolution sooner than later. But it matters to everybody to identify the
true suspect and let the victims` family heal.
BANFIELD: Detective Bender, I know you`re former Detective Bender, but I think once a detective always a detective, which is the double gut punch
here, because Joseph James DeAngelo was a cop too, in two different, you know, police departments.
And I wonder for someone like you if that makes this even more sour, because this is one of the -- one of the ones behind the blue wall, so to
speak, does it make any difference at the fact that he was a cop just like you?
BENDER: Well, you know, there`s good people and bad people in every profession. We all have to remember that and not assume that somebody`s one
way or another. You know, we need to examine the facts. That`s what the police department has to do.
And that`s kind of what got Craig in trouble to begin with is somebody jumped the gun and focused on something to the exclusion of others. So
we`re waiting for the evidence to come in. It`s unfortunate that a police officer, if it is him, but, I mean, he was a cop for a while and did some
horrendous things and that sours the name for everybody.
Hopefully, people remember that there is other people who like myself, you know, I became a cop to help people. I don`t care who they are, I want to
help them. That`s what they do. And there`s much more of them out there, the silent majority that`s out there. And we need to remember that. There`s
a lot of good cops out there.
BANFIELD: Amen. I will also say this, Mike Bender, you and Craig are cut from the same cloth, the patience that you`re expressing in terms of
innocent until proven guilty, in the face of the adversity that both of you have gone to, Craig definitely much more in extent, but you also suffered
having to quit your job to pursue the truth.
You`ve done a hell of a job. Congratulations to you, and to also just keep mindful of innocent until proven guilty, again in the face of the story
that we`re telling tonight.
In that vain, I want to bring in defense attorney Randy Kessler again.
[18:40:01] Randy, innocent until proven guilty, but oh my God, looking at those two pictures together that we now have tonight, showing Joseph James
DeAngelo back then, next to those drawings, those composite sketches, it`s uncanny. And I`m just wondering what kind of a trial this man could get or
if you even it will go to trial?
RANDY KESSLER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: He`s got no choice. What`s he going to do, plead guilty and go to jail for the rest of his life or accept the death
penalty? He`s got to try it because that`s his only shot of not spending the rest of his life in jail.
It`s interesting, before there was DNA and all this scientific evidence. That`s what we had. We had showed the picture of the drawing by the police
artist, and compare it to the face of the defendant. And you compare them and that`s what you have.
That`s what we did with DNA to prove fatherhood. We didn`t have DNA, you showed a picture of the dad and a picture of the child. Those pictures are
pretty compelling.
BANFIELD: They`re amazing. Look at this. I couldn`t do it before. I couldn`t look at the old man`s face next to the young man`s sketch. But
now, I can see it. And it is uncanny. My thanks -- I have to cut it there. But my thanks to all my guests. We`re going to watch this further to see
what other developments because they are coming in fast and furious.
Meantime, caught on camera, a real housewife in real trouble in the back of a police cruiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUANN DE LESSEPS, TELEVISION PERSONALITY: Listen to me. Listen to me --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). Do you understand what I`m telling you right now?
DE LESSEPS: What did I do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave your feet in the vehicle.
DE LESSEPS: What did I do wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The latest on Luann de Lesseps, drunken, run-in with the law, next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Whether or not you like reality TV, you know the "Real Housewives," and you know what they`re known for, the drama. But the
reality of the drama and the damage that you can do with it, well, that just got a little more real for the housewife of New York known as the
countess.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, what am I lying about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was written about with him, Ramona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me he went to dinner with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I`m saying -- I`m making a giant (INAUDIBLE). The problem with you is that women don`t trust you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Luann de Lesseps is no stranger to the camera, the housewife once known for a music video called "money can`t buy you class."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Money can`t buy you class. Money can`t buy you class. Elegance is learned, my friends. Elegance is learned, oh yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It`s a kind of catchy. But sorry to say, now Ms. Lesseps or countess is known for a different video, but the message behind this one
still applies. Money can`t buy you class. Apparently, it can`t keep you from threatening a police officer either, and on Christmas eve no less.
That`s when Luann was reportedly found drunk in a Florida hotel, refusing to leave a room, slamming a door, allegedly hitting an officer in the head.
And tonight, we have brand new video of the countess of what happened when they got her into the police cruiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: Can I get out of here, please? Please? Can I get out of here, please? I can`t even deal with this. I just want to go home, please. I want
to go home. I don`t want to go in this horrible. Can I get out from here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You want this stuff?
DE LESSEPS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Or do you want to leave it with your friend?
DE LESSEPS: It`s my -- it`s my -- can I -- I mean, I`m fine. I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK.
DE LESSEPS: Do you know what I mean? I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): I`m going to ask you again.
DE LESSEPS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Do you want to take this with you to jail or do you want to leave it with your friend?
DE LESSEPS: I want to take it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You want to take this to jail with you?
DE LESSEPS: Why would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You`re going to jail.
DE LESSEPS: Why would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You`re going to jail.
DE LESSEPS: Why would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK, so would you like to take it or not?
DE LESSEPS: Why would I? Can I get my hands out from this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): No, you cannot.
DE LESSEPS: Why?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Because they`re handcuffs. That`s what they`re made for. The officer can`t get her out of the handcuffs, so Luann just decides to go
ahead and do it herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: I know where that is. That`s off of --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): We`ll let you know exactly when she`s free to go. No, what --
DE LESSEPS: Julie, they are trying to strap me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): This chick.
DE LESSEPS: For no reason. I`ve done nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong. Let me out. Let me out, please. Let me out.
I`ve done nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Here, let me fix this.
DE LESSEPS: Please do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The countess gets her wish, at least she gets out of the car. But that`s where she gets re-handcuffed because that`s what happens. And
then she says a couple of things that probably are not going to help her when she fights the charges of resisting an officer with violence,
trespassing and disorderly intoxication. Listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Stop resisting.
DE LESSEPS: Why? Why? Why? Oh my God. I`m going to get you.
[18:50:00] I`m going to get you big time. You`re going to be so bad. you`re going to be so bad that you`ve done nothing. I`ve done nothing
wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong and you`re handcuffing me. Guess what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): What?
DE LESSEPS: I`m not getting into your car. I`m not getting into that car. I`m not -- why? I`ve done nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Sweetie, get in the car. I`ll go with you. You need to sit.
DE LESSEPS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Have a seat.
DE LESSEPS: I want my shoes and my bag and my stuff. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. I`m going to kill you. I will kill you. I will kill you. For
what? For what did I do? I did nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You don`t need to threaten --
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Listen, no more threats. No more threats.
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He`s buckling you so you`re safe.
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Sit back.
DE LESSEPS: I`ve done nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Watch your feet.
DE LESSEPS: NO. My friend is staying here. My friend. Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Listen to me, I`m going to hogtie you if you don`t stop. Do you understand what I`m telling you right now?
DE LESSEPS: Well, what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Stop.
DE LESSEPS: What did I do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Leave your feet in the vehicle.
DE LESSEPS: What did I do wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Luann, just relax. Leave your feet in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: And Bonnie is just shaking her head. This is Bonnie Fuller, the editor-in-chief of HollywoodLife.com. The perfect guest for this one. This
isn`t drama anymore. You can`t do this.
BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: No, you can`t. I know the countess, and I really like her. And I feel terrible that she got
herself in this situation. I know she feels terrible too.
BANFIELD: I`m sure she does. Was it the booze talking? Because it doesn`t matter, as far as the law is concerned. I think her fans would want to
know. What the heck?
FULLER: Absolutely. That`s what she has said. She said that she went drinking with a friend during the afternoon and basically they kept
drinking and they went back to her hotel. The only problem is they went to the wrong room.
BANFIELD: Oops.
FULLER: Somehow got into somebody else`s room and wouldn`t leave.
BANFIELD: Can I tell you that`s not the only problem? Here`s the thing, though, you know, a lot of viewers right now are saying how do these
celebrities get away with everything? Do you think she`ll get away with this?
FULLER: I don`t think she is going to get away with this. What she did is she checked herself into rehab immediately, smart move, and she was there
for a month. And since she`s come out, she says that she`s not drinking. What she did confess is that she was drinking on average about seven drinks
a day, including a couple Martinis. So --
BANFIELD: They had to have been quadruple Martinis for that behavior. Will you come back? You have great stories on HollywoodLife.com. I love having
you. There`s that whole Canadian thing.
FULLER: Yes, we are both Canadian.
BANFIELD: Come back again. Bonnie Fuller, good to have you.
FULLER: Sure.
BANFIELD: I have this thing I have to put on the air. It`s a heartfelt final sign off from one of Sarasota`s finest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had plenty good times and a lot of good memories over my career and I appreciate it. I`ll cherish them for the rest of my life. I
wish you all well and a safe tour of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That isn`t all. We got one more thing, and you can`t miss this one, trust me. Straight ahead.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. Leaving the job you love is tough. But leaving that job after 30 years of service, there are really no
words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Are you sad?
ANDRE JENKINS, RETIRING SARASOTA POLICE OFFICER: This will be my last -- last transmission over the radio.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): (INAUDIBLE). Congratulations on your retirement.
JENKINS: I`d like to thank all my SPD family for the last 30 years of being by my side. And especially for today for making them a memorable one.
I had plenty good times and a lot of good memories over my career and I appreciate it. I`ll cherish them for the rest of my life. I wish you all
well and a safe tour of duty. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Congratulations, Andre. Enjoy it. Goodbye, my friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): It has been a pleasure, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Andre, thank you for everything. Congratulations on your retirement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Congratulations, Andre. Enjoy it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You earned it, buddy. Good job.
JENKINS: Thank you all. God bless you. That`s it, mate. That`s a (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:00:01] BANFIELD: That`s a (INAUDIBLE). Congratulations, Andre. Thank you for your 30 years of service. Officer Andre Jenkins. The next hour of
CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The seven committed multiple murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he hid his face each time he attack a new victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) ski mask on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he is showing face now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just disgusted by him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The former police officer arrested for dozens of rapes and murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Joseph James Deangelo, your true and correct legal name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, who was he? Where was he? All of those years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t care that he is in the wheelchair. I don`t chair one bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did they hunk down the suspected golden state killer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The expectation of privacy disappears -.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After 40 years of hiding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t almost certain that a defense attorney he has hired ha called this an illegal search?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where he reportedly said during one of his attacks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate you bonnie, I hate you bonnie, while he is sobbing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why police thinks this could be his motive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We always felt that there was a woman named bunny in his life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, are there even more victims than anyone thought?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing (INAUDIBLE). And how he must (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then, the real housewife of New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t tough me. Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A real handful for the least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But her drama turned into a death threat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. I`m going to kill you. I will kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now, she is paying the price.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to get you. I really get you, quick done (ph). You are going to be so bad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
Generally, when you see a literally person in a wheelchair, it evokes a little sympathy. But when you see that person handcuffed to the wheelchair
like this and be wielded to a courtroom where that person is accused of murder, sympathy may not be the first thing on your mind.
And when it comes to a senior citizen by the name of Joseph Deangelo, 72, all bets are off. Because he is accused of killing 12 people, and
savagely. Police say he snuck into their homes in the middle of the night and killed them right in front of their families.
And that`s not all. They say he also raped upwards of 45 women, maybe even more. And the fragile old face in the mug shot is not the face behind the
mask. So many of these victims described because the golden state killer hasn`t been active for 30 years. But if the golden state killer is
Deangelo, this is what he looked like when he allegedly attacked his victims.
Take a good look at this comparison. These are new pictures of Deangelo during that time, a young and healthy high schooler who went on to join the
Navy and the police force, and live a long and stable and productive life in California in the very same region where he allegedly terrorized for ten
years. That`s something the people there won`t be forgetting anytime soon whether he is in a wheelchair or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE HILL, RANCHO CORDOVA RESIDENT: Oh, I don`t care that he`s in a wheelchair. I don`t care one bit. Like my daughter said, the fact that he
had been committing these crimes when he was a young man versus him being an old man now, the only sadness I have in that is when they throw the book
at him, his life sentence will not be very long. It will not do justice to all of the crimes and all of the people that he has hurt over the years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And the golden state killer has hurt a lot of people. Like the survivors, the women that he attacked in their beds. We talked to one of
them last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE CARSON, GOLDEN STATE KILLER VICTIM: It was just all about terror from the moment he ran down the hall with a flashlight in his hand wearing that
ski mask with that large butcher knife in his hand, the black leather jacket, the gloves, and then before he raped me, he moved my 3-year-old son
and I had no idea where he put him.
We are blindfolded, we are gagged and we are tied up. But I could hear him tearing these towels and tearing these sheets and I`m thinking, OK, what`s
his next move? Is he going to hang us? Is he going to bound us even more?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Fortunately, tonight, after 40 years of trying to find him, investigators may just have their man. And they might also have his motive
because one of his victims is now saying the killer screamed someone`s name during her attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:05:13] PAUL HOLES, LEAD COLD CASE INVESTIGATOR, CONTRA COSTA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS OFFICE: I hate you Bonnie, I hate you Bonnie, while he
is sobbing. So we always felt there was a woman named Bonnie in his life. That was significant to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in my panel. Ryan Harris is a reporter for News Radio KFBK, Orange County district attorney Tony Rackaucrus is with us as
well. Criminologist and behavioral analyst Casey Jordan joins me and trial attorney Randy Kessler is with me. Also, Keith Comos is the co-author of
"case Files of the east area rapists."
Welcome to all of you.
I`m going to start with you, Ryan. I know you were in court on Friday. And you have been watching every piece of news as it continues to stack up,
almost by the hour. This latest piece of news, that he allegedly screamed the name Bonnie, I hate you Bonnie during one of the attacks. What more do
you know about that fact?
RYAN HARRIS, REPORTER, NEWSRADIO KFBK: What we know very little of it than that Joseph Deangelo might have been engaged to a woman named Bonnie and
that was a failed engagement. But we know of course from talking to some experts on profiling of criminals that there are certain things that might
trigger an attacker to begin that. It sounds like this might be a case of somebody, a situation in his life, like a failed engagement that started to
trigger this crime spree.
BANFIELD: And Ryan, have they been able to track down the woman that they discovered was his fiance back at the very same time of these crimes
happened as Bonnie?
HARRIS: I have not heard of them being able to track her down yet. But these detectives, as you know, have been working on this case for 44 years,
surely they have some names and numbers in their books they will be reaching out to. And if this person, this Bonnie is still alive, then you
can bet they will reach out to her and make contact with her.
BANFIELD: They have even found the engagement announcement from back in the `70s. That`s just remarkable, you know, how much evidence is sort of,
you know, bubbling up from beneath the surface here.
There`s also the fact, and I think what`s so fascinating here, Ryan, is the life that this man Joseph James Deangelo has been living for 40 years. I
want to know everything. I want to know where he has been, what he has been, who he has been, what kind of enjoyment he has had, what kind of
suffering he has had. He has three daughters. What do we know about the daughters?
HARRIS: Well, we know that he lived with at least one of them and had a grandchild living with him as well. He worked for decades as a mechanic
for a local grocery store distribution center, and we have learned already, of course, that he was the police officer in the city of Exeter down into
Larry County. And the timing of that jives up with the crimes of a criminal they called the Visalia reason sacker. And then he was a police
officer in the town of Auburn, which is just in the east of Sacramento, about 30 and 40 miles. And he was fired from that job by the police chief
for shoplifting. And the police chief now is speaking out. He spoke over the weekend, he considers it a black mark on his record, a black eye on the
entire department, and no idea that the items that he would have stolen might have been used to commit some of these crimes.
Now, they also knew that he might have had a military background. It turns out Joseph Deangelo was in the Navy. That was evident by the fact he used
diamond knots to tie his victims up. So there are a lot of pieces there coming together that really fit with Joseph Deangelo`s profile.
BANFIELD: Unbelievable. Did time in Vietnam as well.
Let me, if I can, bring in Tony Rackauckas, the Orange County district attorney. Don`t go anywhere, Ryan, though.
Tony, I can`t help but think about those daughters and when they were born. Have you been able to figure out whether the killing stopped, and the
golden state killer went dark at the time those children were born? And I`m just wondering, perhaps that`s what made the golden state killer go
dark?
TONY RACKAUCKAS, THE ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, that timing is pretty close. I mean, 1986 was the last murder case. And so, you know, so
at least the last murder case we know about. But it`s possible, certainly, that there could be others afterwards. There might be some other
jurisdictions that were not -- you know, that we don`t know about for sure. So we are still looking for that. And so it`s very difficult to say why,
you know, what the reasons were. You know, other people have noted that that`s about the same time as DNA testing started getting some substantial
publicity. You know, they made a case in England in 1986, 1987. And it got a lot of publicity. And so, with his police officer background, he
might have known something about that. But it`s all speculation, really. What we do know is that he committed those murders.
[19:10:05] BANFIELD: And that`s what I want to get to is what do you know? Because there are just so many jurisdictions, I think upwards of ten, where
there are crime scenes and unsolved crimes. And so as the DA of Orange County, are you all sharing information? Have you learned new things that
have surprised you about this alleged killer?
RACKAUCKAS: We are sharing information. And we are working together. We are, in fact, just on the phone very recently. And we are planning on
meeting together to discuss and determine, you know, just how and what jurisdiction, where this is going to be tried and how it`s going to be.
And, you know, so as we continue to share, we`ll be learning more. But, you know, we have been on this team for a couple of years. And so I think
we have pretty much, you know, the information that the other jurisdictions have, it`s been common us to.
BANFIELD: But what about Mr. Deangelo? I mean, we have only had him around for less than a week, you know, six days. It would seven days
tomorrow.
RACKAUCKAS: Right.
BANFIELD: What have you learned, Mr. District attorney, about Joseph Deangelo that surprised you?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, you know, you are learning the same kind of background that we are, you know, pretty close in time. And I -- you know, what
surprises? I don`t know. I mean, you know, it`s certainly disappointing that he was a police officer in two different police offices. But -- or
departments. But then it wasn`t that terribly surprising because of the things that he did at the various crime scenes, you know. So we always
thought he had maybe police, probably military background.
And so, you know, it just kind of indicated that the speculation about that was, you know, was correct. So, you know, so what surprised me, of course,
as it did everybody, that he was living this peaceful existence in a nice suburban area in Sacramento. And, you know, I mean, I`m just -- we are
just glad he`s wrapped up and in custody. And, you know, who knows when he might have stricken again.
BANFIELD: Well. And there are so many details coming out now that, you know, reporters in every one of these jurisdictions are digging as deep as
they can. And so, it`s just all filtering in very, very quickly.
But Casey Jordan, one of the details I want you to weigh in on is this notion that he screamed out I hate you, Bonnie. Other victims reported he
said things like I`m sorry, mom, mommy, please help me, I don`t want to do this, mommy, and that he sobbed like a child and seemed lost, that he
whimpered in a high pitched voice, some reporting coming in from other victims, this is your bailiwick.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Yes. He is a classic anger retaliatory rapist, a guy who probably had a terrible childhood. Not
that we feel sorry for him, but very emblematic of a child who suffered physical abuse, emotional abuse, maybe sexual abuse as a child, and needs a
scapegoat, someone to blame and he needs a way to reclaim power in his adulthood. So anger retaliation, taking out his anger and frustration,
trying to control --
BANFIELD: Doesn`t surprise you.
JORDAN: It doesn`t surprise me at all.
BANFIELD: How about this? Let`s go back to these pictures if we can. I will ask the control room to show the courtroom pictures of this sort of
this sagging, depressed, weak, elderly 72-year-old man who looks confused and can barely utter yes and no. Turns out, one of the detectives that
seen him recently on a motorcycle going about 100 miles an hour. He was like he is 50 years old, the detective said. He was a truck mechanic and
he only just retired in November.
JORDAN: Right.
BANFIELD: So that`s not an easy job. He has been seen building a table, fixing his daughter`s car. What do you make of the guy we are seeing in
court just a few weeks and months after all of that behavior?
JORDAN: It`s all part of the power and control game because he -- this is resignation. OK, there is a mind/body connection. He knows that the jig
is up. And he now has to face his accusers. The rest of his life is written off. I don`t want to say he is faking completely. But I think he
has given up.
The biggest key is he is not talking, he is not filling in any of these details or answering any of the questions we really want to know about
Bonnie, about whether his mother abused him, all of the things we want to know. And sitting in a wheelchair is just more part of the game. Now, all
eyes are on him and he holds the cards. He is not going to talk. He is not going to confess. And so, he is still has the power. This is just
part that game that he plays.
BANFIELD: All right. I want everyone to hold, if they can. There are the notion of more victims potentially as they unrest more crimes, et cetera.
And then there is this.
There is a man who ran away for 40 years for the killing of his girlfriend and her son. And then it was discovered he didn`t do it. And not it is
being discovered that investigators think he just might be the golden state killer. We are going to talk to him. And we are going to talk to the
police officer who was dogged about all of this saying, I think we have got the wrong guy. In fact, I`m willing to bet my job on it. I`m willing to
quit my over it. I`m willing to keep up the investigation and get to the truth.
And now $1.9 million later the state is paying because that man spent the better part of his life in prison. Was he in prison because of this man?
Will the make the connections? That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:37] BANFIELD: We are still tracking disturbing new details about the man suspected of attacking 45 women in their home, maybe more, and
killing 12 innocent people before going into a hiding for 40 years.
Though, if you if you saw him for the first time this week, with no idea of what he is accused of, you might not see a cold blooded killer here in this
courtroom. You might have seen as his lawyer put it, a depressed and fragile old man sitting in a wheelchair struggling to raise his voice loud
enough for the judge to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In custody, Deangelo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Joseph James Deangelo your true and correct legal name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: According to his lawyer, Deangelo was quoted "depressed and fragile." But the crime that he is accused of committing or anything but.
And now he is going to have to answer for them no matter what his condition. And he will probably have to explain certain stories just
coming out not about he may had sat in on community meetings and targeted the people who spoke out in those meetings or that his list of victims may
have included even more people than any of us ever knew including the boyfriend of a woman who just spent 39 years behind bars for a murder that
he did not commit.
My panel is still with me. And I want to bring in Simi Valley detective Mike Bender and Craig Coley. Detective Bender worked for two decades to
free Craig Coley who was wrongly convicted of a 1978 double murder. Craig Coley was released from prison last fall after 39 years. Those killings
are now being investigated to see if there is a link to Joseph James Deangelo or the golden state killer.
Thank you so much for being with me, Mr. Bender, Mr. Coley. Can you both hear me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BANFIELD: First, Mr. Coley, let me go to you.
The news breaking today that authorities are now looking at Mr. Deangelo as possibly connected to the murder that you spent four decades behind bars
were wrongfully. Your initial feelings on that?
CRAIG COLEY, SPENT 39 YEARS FOR MURDERS HE DIDN`T COMMIT (on the phone): (INAUDIBLE), you know. I`m all for the truth. If it is him, then I`m
happy for the family and for the community that can finally put this to rest. That it should have been done 40 years ago.
BANFIELD: Tonight, I ask you, if it is him, there has been so much talk of the victims that golden state killer left behind. The rape victims who
survived, upwards of 50 of them, the 12 murder victims maybe more. The family members of those rape victims and murder victims who are left
behind. And if it is him, you would join the list of people whose lives were destroyed by that killer. Do you see yourself in that same
collection?
COLEY: I wouldn`t say my life was destroyed, no.
BANFIELD: Forty years and it doesn`t?
COLEY: Well, I have two choice, I can breathe about it. I can be angry about it. And I can mourn and let it keep ruining my life or I can look
forward as I am doing and move ahead and pray for the people that his victims. And they are done with it.
BANFIELD: Can I ask? Can I ask you how you are so positive? And I ask that honestly because I think so many people who are watching this right
now, if they were in your shoes, they would be seizing. They would feel cheated out of children and grandchildren and middle age ends life and fun
and trees and oxygen and grass and all the things that we live life for. And yet you seem to be so accepting of all of all of this. How is that?
COLEY: Well, all of the things that you just mentioned were created by our savior, by God. And the thing is, that I am a faithful man. And I believe
in my Lord and savior. And I`m educated in that. I got my degree while I was in prison. And that`s where I come -- get my strength strong. That`s
where I get my hope from. That`s where I get my desire to go on with life.
[19:25:04] BANFIELD: I wish I could be more like you, Craig. That is astounding that you have done 40 years of hard time, 39 years of hard time.
Can I ask you, are you following this case? Does it matter to you? Does it matter to you if the golden state killer was the killer of Rhonda
(INAUDIBLE), your girlfriend at the time and her 4-year-old son, Donald? You took the blame for all those decades. Would it matter if it is him or
not?
COLEY: Absolutely, it would matter, it would matter to her family. Her family is still living. She still has a brother, two brothers and a sister
and she has nieces and nephews, people that were robbed of the fact that they couldn`t get to know her because she was not around. But yes, I would
absolutely be elated to know that this is finally put to rest. And it scientifically proved to be the fact that this man, if in fact he is the
killer. ``
BANFIELD: You know, the laws stipulates that when someone is wrongfully convicted and spent that much time behind bars, you are due something. And
in the settlement from the authorities, I believe it was upwards of -- just a little less than $2 million in remuneration that you are either due or
have been paid. I guess one of the questions I people`s mind, is that enough? Does it compensate you at all for the loss of 40 years?
COLEY: Well, the answer to that would be unequivocally no. You can`t replace that. All you can do is enhance your life. Go forward. And enjoy
the things that you have ahead of you, and not worry about the things that are behind you because you have no control over that.
The victims` compensation board that awarded me compensation for 13,991 days at $140 a day. And I haven`t received that money yet, but I`m going
to get it at some point in time. And after it goes through their process. And it`s going to help me to live a better life. But I don`t know how much
I would have earned at 39 years. But I would imagine it`s somewhere around that. I don`t know. But no, it won`t replace that time. Nothing can
replace time. You can only move forward and live ahead and help others.
BANFIELD: Let me tell you, the time that you spent behind bars, clearly you did it right. Finding, you know, the Lord, and learning the lessons of
life and being a forgiving man, you did it right. You did what I think all of us hope is going on behind bars, people finding the right path and
clearly it sounds like you have.
I do have one more question for you. I did the math. You went in when you were 31. You are coming out at 71. Let`s think about that for a second.
Going in at 31, you are coming out at 71. You don`t have kids, correct?
COLEY: No. I don`t have any children. That`s been taken from me.
BANFIELD: So clearly no kids, no grand-kids.
COLEY: Right.
BANFIELD: I think I`m told you want to get a dog. Is that correct?
COLEY: Yes. I`m going to get a service dog, absolutely, yes. I have always had dogs when I was a free man. And they are great companions, good
pets.
BANFIELD: Well, you are a free man now. And I am so fascinated just to hear your outlook, how you connect to this man who`s now been arrested,
possibly, possibly, for the crime that you paid for wrongly.
COLEY: Yes.
BANFIELD: And Mike Bender, I want to bring him into the conversation, Craig, because Mike was a Simi Valley police detective.
` And Mike, you knew, you worked on this case, and something said to you that we got the wrong guy in Craig. And you devoted decades to trying to free
him. What was it, what was it that had you -- got your spidy senses tingling that something was wrong with that conviction?
MIKE BENDER, FORMER SIMI VALLEY DETECTIVE: The list is very long. But originally, I was guided to that when I was a detective at the police
department. And as soon as I opened up the murder book and started going through it, it was clear Craig was not the right suspect and I had much
better suspects in mind at the time.
There was a lot of red flags that had to do with everything, his alibi was accounted for except for maybe 20 minutes. And then if you looked at the
crime scene, there was no way he could have done everything that happened. It just didn`t fit us. Plus, like I said, there was a better suspect than
Craig at the time.
BANFIELD: And you were dogged in your pursuit of this, to the point where your bosses told you stop, stop investigating this, or you will be fired
and you chose to quit, you chose to continue. And what you did, you know, obviously has helped greatly in exonerating that man. And are you -- and I
only have time, I think -- do we have another block on this? Can you stay after the break? I still have so many more questions for you, Mike? Can
you stay for about two or three minutes?
[19:30:09] BENDER: Sure.
BANFIELD: OK. So, the question I have, how fascinated, how intrigued, how connected will you be to this case? How much will you watch and will it be
satisfying if you do find out there`s a link between this man, Joseph James DeAngelo, and the man that Craig Coley served time, the woman that he
served time for killing, how satisfying might that be if that link is established? Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:30] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello? Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to kill you. I`m going to kill you. I`m going to kill you. (BLEEP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The Golden State Killer terrorized his victims after their attacks with phone calls like that. But have they now caught him? And
what other damage might still be out there? Well, for instance, my panel is still with me. I want to bring back Simi Valley Detective Mike Bender
and Craig Coley, detective Bender worked for two decades to free Coley who was wrongly convicted for a 1978 double murder. Craig Coley was released
from prison last fall after 39 years and those killings are now being investigated to see if there is a link to the man who`s been arrested,
Joseph James DeAngelo. Randy Kessler is still back with me as well. Detective Bender, before I went to break, I said would it matter? Are you
following this case? Would there be resolution for you? Would it matter if it was the Golden State Killer, who they proved to be the killer of
Ronda, and her son Donald, or if they proved it to be anyone else? Would there be a difference?
BENDER: A huge difference. That`s the open-end here. We want resolution for the victims` family. My goal initially was to solve the murders and
free an innocent man. Craig was released and exonerated completely, and now, we have some unfinished business here with the conclusion of
identifying the suspect. I have complete faith in the Simi Valley Police Department Chief Livingstone, Dan Swanson. They`re not going to stop until
they gets the guy and if it happens to be the Golden State Killer, then, there will be a resolution sooner than later. But it matters to everybody
to identify the true suspect and let the victims` family heal.
BANFIELD: Detective Bender, and I know you`re former Detective Bender, but I think once a detective, always a detective, which is the double gut punch
here, because Joseph James DeAngelo was a cop, too. In two different, you know, police departments. And I wonder for someone like you, if that makes
this even more sour, because this is one of the -- one of the ones behind the blue wall, so to speak, does it make any difference that the fact that
he was a cop, just like you?
BENDER: Well, you know, there`s good people and bad people in every profession and we all have to remember that, and not assume that somebody`s
one way or another. You know, we need to examine the facts. That`s what the police department has to do, and that`s kind of what got Craig in
trouble to begin with, is somebody jumped the gun and focused on something to the exclusion of others. So, we`re waiting for the evidence to come in
and it`s unfortunate that a police officer, if it is him, but, I mean, he was a cop for a while, and did some horrendous things, and that sours the
name for everybody. And then, hopefully, people remember, that there`s other people, like myself, you know, I became a cop to help people. I
don`t care who they are, I want to help them. And that`s what they do, and there`s much more of them out there. The silent majority that`s out there
and we need to remember that. There`s a lot of good cops out there and a lot of (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: Yes, amen. And I will also say this, Mike Bender, you and Craig are cut from the same cloth. The patience that you`re expressing in terms
of innocent until proven guilty. In the face of the adversity that both of you have gone through. Craig, definitely, it`s much more an extent, but
you also suffered, you know, having to quit your job to pursue the truth, and you`ve done a hell of a job. So, congratulations to you, and to also
just keep mindful of innocent until proven guilty, again, in the face of the story that we`re telling tonight.
I actually was one of -- in that (INAUDIBLE) I want to bring in Defense Attorney Randy Kessler again. Randy, innocent until proven guilty, but oh
my God, looking at those two pictures together that we now have tonight, showing Joseph DeAangelo, Joseph James DeAangelo back then next to those
drawings, those composite sketches, it`s uncanny. And I`m just wondering what kind of a trial this man could get or if you even think it will go to
trial.
[19:40:03] RANDY KESSLER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I mean, he`s got no choice. What`s he going to do, plead guilty and go to jail for the rest of his life
or accept the death penalty? He`s got to try it because that`s his only shot of not spending the rest of his life in jail. You know, it`s
interesting because before there was DNA and all this scientific evidence, that`s what we had. We had showed the picture of the, you know, drawing by
the police, you know, artist, and compare it to the face of the defendant. And you compare them and that`s what you have. It`s -- you know, that`s
what we did with DNA to prove fatherhood. We didn`t have DNA, you showed a picture of the dad and a picture of the child. And those pictures are
pretty compelling.
BANFIELD: They`re amazing. They`re -- I mean, look at this. This -- I couldn`t do it before, I couldn`t look at the old man`s face next to the
young man`s sketch but now I can see it. And it is uncanny. My thanks -- I have to cut it there but my thanks to all my guests. We`re going to
watch this further to see what other developments because they are coming in fast and furious.
Meantime, caught on camera, a real housewife in real trouble in the back of a police cruiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUANN DE LESSEPS, AMERICAN TELEVISION PERSONALITY: Listen to me.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand what I`m telling you right now?
DE LESSEPS: What? What did I do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave your feet in the vehicle.
DE LESSEPS: What did I do wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The latest on Luann de Lesseps` drunken run-in with the law, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:15] BANFIELD: Whether or not you like reality T.V., you know the "Real Housewives," and you know what they`re known for, the drama. But the
reality of the drama and the damage that you could do with it, well, that just got a little more real for the housewife of New York known as "The
Countess."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: Wait, wait, what am I lying about?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was written about with him, Ramona. There`s no way he never came (INAUDIBLE)
DE LESSEPS: You told me you went to dinner with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I`m saying -- I`m making a giant-like statement. The problem with you is that women don`t trust you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Luann de Lesseps is no stranger to the camera, the housewife once known for a music video called "Money Can`t Buy You Class."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: Money can`t buy you class, money can`t buy you class. Elegance is learned, my friends, elegance is learned. Oh, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Actually kind of catchy. Well, sorry to say, but now, Miss Lesseps, or countess, is known for a different video, but the message
behind this one still applies. Money can`t buy you class, and apparently, it can`t keep you from threatening a police officer either, and on
Christmas Eve no less. That`s when Luann was reportedly found drunk in a Florida hotel, refusing to leave a room, slamming a door, allegedly hitting
an officer in the head, and tonight, we have brand new video of the countess of what happened when they got her into the police cruiser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: Can I get out of here, please? Please? Can I get out of here, please? I can`t even deal with this. I just want to go home,
please, can I go home? I don`t want to go in this horrible -- can I get out from here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want this stuff?
DE LESSEPS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or do you want to leave it with your friend?
DE LESSEPS: It`s my -- it`s my -- can I -- I mean, I`m fine. I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
DE LESSEPS: Do you know what I mean, I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to ask you again.
DE LESSEPS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to take this with you to jail or do you want to leave it with your friend?
DE LESSEPS: I want to take it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to take this to jail with you?
DE LESSEPS: Why, why, why would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to jail.
DE LESSEPS: What would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to jail.
DE LESSEPS: Why would I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so, would you like to take it or not?
DE LESSEPS: Why would I? Can I get my hands out from this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you cannot.
DE LESSEPS: Why?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Because they`re handcuffs. That`s what they`re made for. The officer can`t get her out of the handcuffs, so Luann just decides to go
ahead and do it herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LESSEPS: Oh, I know what that is. That`s off of --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we`ll let you know exactly when she`s free to go. No, (INAUDIBLE) --
DE LESSEPS: Julie! Julie, they`re trying to trap me for no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This chick.
DE LESSEPS: I`ve done nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong. Done nothing wrong. Let me out. Let me out, please. Let me out. I`ve done
nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong. Let me out. I`ve done nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, let me fix this.
DE LESSEPS: Please do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The Countess gets her wish, at least she gets out of the car, but that`s where she gets re-handcuffed because that`s what happens. And
then, she says a couple of things that probably are not going to help her when she fights the charges of resisting an officer with violence,
trespassing, and disorderly intoxication. Listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop resisting.
DE LESSEPS: Why? Why? Why? Why? Oh, my God. I`m going to get -- I`m going to get you -- I`m going to get you big time. You`re going to be so
bad. You`re going to be so bad that you`ve done nothing -- I`ve done nothing wrong. I`ve done nothing wrong, and you`re handcuffing me. Guess
what?
[19:50:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
DE LESSEPS: I`m not getting into your car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, no, no, no.
DE LESSEPS: I`m not getting into that car. I`m not -- I`ve done nothing wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
DE LESSEPS: I`ve done nothing wrong. I`m not getting into that car. I`m not getting -- no. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a seat.
DE LESSEPS: I want my shoes and my bag and my stuff. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. I`m going to kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa.
DE LESSEPS: I`ll kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don`t say that.
DE LESSEPS: I will kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
DE LESSEPS: For what? For what did I do? I did nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t need to --
(CROSSTALK)
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s buckling you so you`re safe.
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit back.
DE LESSEPS: I`ve done nothing wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch your feet.
DE LESSEPS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, ma`am.
DE LESSEPS: No. My friend. My friend is staying here. My friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am.
DE LESSEPS: Don`t touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me. I`m going to hog tie you if you don`t stop. Do you understand what I`m telling you right now?
DE LESSEPS: For what? What did I do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave your feet in the vehicle.
DE LESSEPS: What did I do wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Luann, just relax. Chill out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Oh, and Bonnie is just shaking her head. This is Bonnie Fuller. She`s the Editor-in-chief of HollywoodLife.com. Perfect guest for this
one. She`s in a whack load of trouble. This isn`t drama anymore. You can`t do this.
BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: No, you can`t. And I know The Countess and I really like her, and I feel terrible that she got
herself in this situation. I know she feels terrible, too.
BANFIELD: I`m sure she does. Was it the booze who`s talking? Because it doesn`t matter. You know, as far as the law is concerned. But I think her
fans would want to know. What the heck?
FULLER: Absolutely. That`s what she had said. She said that she went drinking with a friend during the afternoon, and basically, they kept
drinking and they went back to her hotel. The only problem is they went to the wrong room.
BANFIELD: Oops.
FULLER: Somehow, got into somebody else`s room and wouldn`t leave.
BANFIELD: Can I tell you that`s not the only problem? Here`s the thing, though. You know, a lot of viewers right now are saying how do these
celebrities get away with everything? Do you think she`ll get away with this?
FULLER: I don`t think she`s going to get away with this. Now, what she did is she checked herself into rehab immediately.
BANFIELD: Oh, good for her.
FULLER: Which was a smart move.
BANFIELD: Yes.
FULLER: And she was there for a month and since she`s come out, she says that she`s not drinking. What she did confess is that she was drinking on
average, about seven drinks a day including a couple martinis.
BANFIELD: Well, they had to have been quadruple martinis for that behavior. Will you come back? You have such great stories in
HollywoodLife.com. I love your stuff. It`s awesome.
FULLER: Oh, thank you.
BANFIELD: Plus, (INAUDIBLE) Canadian thing.
FULLER: Yes, we are both Canadian.
BANFIELD: Come back again. Bonnie Fuller, good to have you.
FULLER: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I have this thing, I have to put on the air. It`s a heartfelt final sign off from one of Sarasota`s finest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDRE JENKINS, VETERAN, SARASOTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I had plenty of good times and a lot of good memories over my career and I appreciate it. I
will cherish them for the rest of my life. I wish you all well and a safe tour of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And that isn`t all. We`ve got "ONE MORE THING" and you can`t miss this one. Trust me. Straight ahead.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Leaving a job you love is tough, but leaving a job after 30 years of service, that kind of takes the
wind out of you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want (INAUDIBLE).
JENKINS: This will be my last transmission on the radio.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy (INAUDIBLE) congratulations on your retirement.
JENKINS: Thank you. I`d like to thank all my SPD family for the last 30 years of being by my side and especially for today for making it a
memorable one. I had plenty good times and a lot of good memories all my career and I appreciate it. I`ll cherish them for the rest of my life. I
wish you all well and a safe tour of duty. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations, Andre. Hope you enjoy it. Bye, my friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) It`s been a pleasure, brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andre, thank you for everything. Congratulations on your retirement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations, Andre. Enjoy it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You earned it, buddy. Good job.
JENKINS: Thank you all. God bless you. That`s it, baby. That`s a wrap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Not yet, Andre, because I`m going to say thank you for your 30 years of service, too. Officer Jenkins, Sarasota is going to miss you.
We`re going to see you right back here tomorrow night, everybody, 6:00 Eastern Time. Thank you so much for watching. "FORENSIC FILES" begins
right now.
END