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CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Manhunt for a sex offender; Accused killer begs to go on cruise. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired May 2, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- so we`re all caught up on the week`s important news, "Crime and Justice" with Ashleigh Banfield is up right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield and this is "crime and Justice." Tonight, an urgent

manhunt in California for the registered child sex offender who kidnapped two children and then led police in a 100 mile chase in a motor home before

dumping the babies and fleeing on foot.

CNN reporter (ph) Paul Vercammen is tracking the story from L.A. What do you have Paul?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN REPORTER: Well, that suspect still on the loose. They know that he has a handgun. Nerve-rattling tension yesterday as he went on

chase -- so many chases where whosever heard of an RV on the loose like this, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: A motor home, alright. We look forward to more details, Paul, standby.

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- her bestfriend in a car wreck, but she just asked for the privilege of keeping her passport so that she can go (ph) in a fancy vacation cruise.

Justin Freiman is covering this story. This really happened in court.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, SENIOR PRODUCER HLN: That`s right. Usually it`s all rise for the judge, but the defense was taking all aboard, asking (inaudible) on

a family vacation when she is accused of killing her bestfriend.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. We`re going to get details on that in a moment. Also, the 2-year-old baby boy - look at this picture. That child in a

hospital after his mom said he was cut and beaten at a daycare.

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- trying to figure out how this happened. Bernice Man has been spending the day investigating this. Who did this to him?

BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: You know that image of that baby is so hard to look at.

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- was it a daycare worker or a 2-year-old little girl?

BANFIELD: Wow, and they`re trying to figure out between the two. OK, we`ll get the details on that in a moment. A police officer --

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- city this week until you see this one. We got video of the crosswalk encounter that could --

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- so let me take you to the top story. The hunt for Stephen Houk, a registered child sex offender on the run --

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

--kidnapped two young children yesterday and they were actually his own, a 3-year-old boy and an 11-month-old girl. He put them in a motor home along

with the family dog and headed straight for the heart of Hollywood. That`s where officers tried pulling him over and where a four-hour pursuit would

begin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The toddler on board, you have a parolee on board, a domestic violence suspect. It`s challenging for police officers and it`s

frightening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Police chased Houk a hundred miles, all the way to a rural area north of Bakersfield, but that`s where he got the motor home stuck in an

almond orchard. And wouldn`t you know it, the brave child sex offender just went ahead and abandoned his own two small children and the dog.

Fortunately, when the police boarded that motor home, the little boy and his baby sister seemed to be okay.

Look at the pictures of them. God, that`s sad. But look at that picture. Those children were reunited with their mother after being rescued from

that almond orchard, a hundred miles away. But somehow, 46-year-old Stephen Houk gave them the slip in that almond orchard and he is still on the run

tonight. And police say he is armed and dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT RODRIGUEZ, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL: Possibly armed with a firearm. We have yet to retrieve a firearm from the scene so we`re still

actively searching for that as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me tonight, CNN reporter Paul Vercammen, also CNN law enforcement analyst and former assistant director of the U.S. Marshal

Service Arthur Roderick, and defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is with us as well. Paul I`m going to start with you, the latest on the news in the

manhunt. Are they closer to finding him?

VERCAMMEN: They are still looking for few things. He does have a gun and they are sort of relieved to hear that that`s a revolver not a semi-

automatic weapon. They also say that he has his phone. Now, he was advised not to use it because he could be traced so, they are on this all

out hunt for him. And let me establish why he was able to get away. In talking to law enforcement officers today, when he pulled into that almond

orchard, it kicked up this massive rooster, dust everywhere.

So they did have surveillance in the air, but when they tried to pierce through this huge cover of trees, almond tree after almond tree, and

through this dust, he was able to slip out and get away from them. And it wasn`t until midnight (ph) that they realized for certain that he had

gotten through the perimeter.

[18:04:53] He might have a couple of identifying markings actually that could help. One, he has (ph) two of a cow scroll on his right forearm and

some other tattoos, but they believe that that could be, you know, something for someone to look forward to sight. And they also are warning

anybody, if you see this guy, just call your local law enforcement. Don`t try to like anyway engage him.

BANFIELD: Paul, it`s such a weird story. Look, you and I would not be doing this story if it wasn`t (inaudible) motor home because like you said

at the top of the show, a chase in L.A. is a dime a dozen, but when have you ever seen a motor home doing a hundred mile chase where the police know

that there are little kids inside and often times people aren`t strapped in when they`re not by their seat of the motor home. It`s a really bizarre we

saw on the screen paying out.

VERCAMMEN: Bizarre, frightening, tense, among other things. Officers telling me, look, they have (ph) 10 priorities, one through nine are the

safety of these children. Who wants to be the agency that decided to pull a pit maneuver and bump the RV, you`re throwing down spike shifts to stop

the RV, and then you flip the RV and you have hurt or even worse than that, you know, perhaps kill a child. So, that`s why they backed out (ph) gave

him the room to escape. And they were petrified, this officers I`m talking to about, you know, how they could make a mistake.

BANFIELD: As you`re talking, I`m trying to count the number of crews, one, two, three, four plus a motorcycle, and there`s five, and a lot of picture

I think I saw upwards of eight. It wasn`t a high speed chase, right, like it was almost O.J.-like, wasn`t it?

VERCAMMEN: It was and in fact, it wound its way, you know, from Santa Clarita to the north of Los Angeles into Hollywood as you aptly pointed

out. It actually came right by the CNN bureau here, which is on the legendary Sunset Boulevard in (inaudible) with through -- all around and

then suddenly the turn that he heads up toward Bakersfield and you see that graphic as they shot through. That`s the actual community (inaudible) but

I asked them, I said, do you think he had ties to the area? Did he know that he was going to try to abandon this RV in an almond orchard? They

said because of this odd pattern, they don`t think so where he decided to get off the freeway and evade authorities. And by the way, that`s a mug

shot from his Oregon (inaudible) looking into his records there, you pointed out that he`s got this felony conviction for -- it`s actually

sodomy and they believe it`s with a person trying to run that down. He is a sex offender in Oregon as you said.

BANFIELD: Oh, I got something on that. Paul, I got something on that. A child under 14-years-old (inaudible) the police describe it as too

egregious to even discuss the act for which he was convicted and the reason for which he is a registered child sex offender.

I still have another question for you, don`t go anywhere. And when I come back to you, if I can Paul, I want to ask you about the phone call. He

apparently was on the phone, again, very O.J. -

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

-- with those kids on the back. By the way, if you could find out in the next couple of seconds if he had a car seat or whether that 11-month-old

was in a car seat. I want to bring in Art Roderick. Art, what is the M.O. of this guy, when you have the background of this guy, when you know there

are two kids in a motor home like that, when you have that many police cars in pursuit, what is the strategy? Do you try to get ahead of them? Do you

try and second guess where he`s going? Do you try and cut him off at a pass or do you just beg that he`ll run out of gas?

ARTHUR RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: All of the above. And, of course, Paul is right and one major issue here is safety of those children.

You have no idea, you know, were they bouncing around in that RV? And he`s right, nobody wants to be the one to have that vehicle get in some type of

accident and then have those children get hurt. So, they just actually followed that vehicle along until we pulled into the almond orchard

Now, I know right now it looks like this is mainly a state and local issue, but I know (inaudible) are involved. They have a large tasks force down in

the L.A. area. And with these individual`s background and his sex offenses, they`ll be looking at laying some federal charges on him as a

noncompliant sex offender. I mean, he did eight years in the Oregon prison system, which is a long time. So, as you had mentioned, Ashleigh before,

that`s a pretty heinous crime he committed in 2002.

BANFIELD: And yet, three years ago he had a baby, 11 months old, and he had a baby and somewhere along the line he met the woman with whom he had

those babies, that poor woman today have reunited at least, thank God, with those children and they are relatively OK. I`m not going to speak for their

mental health at this point, having gone through what they went through.

But Art, real quickly, since you, you know, have you connections to the U.S. Marshal and I know you can`t always assess (ph) were you able to give

a call to some of your friends in the force and find out where they are in this manhunt?

RODERICK: I did. You know, they thought they had him in the orchard area.

[18:10:00] He obviously got out of that area since they suspended the actual manhunt in midnight. So now we`re sort of (ph) standard type

fugitive investigation. So, they`re checking with other family, friends, and associates, people that he might have contacted in that particular

area. It looks like he was paroled from Oregon in 2010, and came to the California area shortly thereafter.

BANDFIELD: It`s amazing when you see that picture, when you were just talking, that picture of all those cruisers, literally surrounding that

motor home, and he is able to somehow give them the slip. Real quickly, let me just play police officer Robert Rodriguez and the reaction and what

information he had once they actually got out of their cruisers, figuring he was still in the motor home, you know, did their very cautious approach,

knowing there are kids inside, and then voila, they open the doors to the motor home. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RORIGUEZ: We entered the vehicle, and Mr. Houk is not in the vehicle. We`re still not sure as to when he exited the vehicle. We believe possibly

prior to us arriving on scene. There was quite a bit of a gap because of the unsafe conditions with the dust cloud. So, we believe that there`s a

possibility that he may have escaped at that time, but we do have a perimeter setup and we are actively searching for Mr. Houk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, so I want to again go to Paul Vercammen on the question of the baby, 11 months old. They are never in a car without a car

seat, but that`s a motor home and car seats and motor homes don`t always go together well. Often times there aren`t even seat belts, sometimes there

are. Do we know the condition of where those kids were found in the motor home, Paul?

VERCAMMEN: We don`t know tremendous details other than they said that these children are remarkably doing well and they have gotten Child

Protective Services into the mix here to check on their health. One thing that we do know and you`ve seen the charges, apparently he was threatening

to do something to these children constantly, you alluded to this phone call, and so he is going to face charges for (inaudible) threats, assault

with a deadly weapon, evading, and of course, kidnapping. And I can`t even imagine what it was like for those children to be in that motor home at

that time while their father is making these threats armed with a revolver.

BANFIELD: It`s unbelievable. He was on the phone with his wife, and was she in communication with the -- and by the way, while we we`re answering

that question, I want to go back to that picture of the little kids. It looks like the Los Angeles County Sheriff`s department brought them back --

VERCAMMEND: Correct.

BANFIELD: -- and correct me if I`m wrong here, the picture of the little kids in the sheriff`s office, one of them, you know, being comforted,

that`s the little boy, they gave him a typewriter and a computer to play on and he can barely even see above the desk. Thank God, they`re OK, you know,

and it looks (inaudible) while they were in the process of being reunited with their mum, but do you know about the phone call to the mom, what she

was saying and how she was helping the authorities if she could?

VERCAMMEN: Well, she reported this of course. It started as a domestic dispute in the Santa Clarita area, and that`s in Los Angeles County. And

by the way, you know, you look at those pictures. So that`s the sense of worry (ph) right now for all the agencies involved, that those children are

okay. But the mother was the one who was articulating the danger of this driver, the suspect, his priors. And I think that she articulated to them

that she thought that he d a gun, and then he must have, when you read between the lines in talking to law enforcement officer. He must have been

saying things that were threatening to the children --

BANFIELD: There is, I tell you what, I have a list in front of me, Paul. Terrorist threats is one of the charges, along with assault with a deadly

weapon, child abduction, and evading. Ashleigh Merchant, the defense attorney, those are really hard to fight when you have video, pictures and

fact patterns, and a hundred-mile chase like we`ve seen play out. And the police actually find the kids in the motor home with the family dog no

less. Is he ever going to see those kids again?

ASLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE LAWYER: He`s never going to see the kids again. And without a doubt, that is evidence of guilty, evidence of actually

fleeing during this chase, that he was fleeing. He took his kids. That`s evidence that the state can use to try and prove his guilt for the offenses

that he was originally fleeing from.

The good news is that because he`s a sex offender, there`s a lot of information that the government has that they wouldn`t necessarily have for

just any random (inaudible) they`ve got a lot of ties because he was actually released on parole. So they`ve got family ties, they`ve got an

extensive history, they`ve got an extensive database. So that`s going to give them tools to find him faster than they would someone who wasn`t on

the sex offender registry.

BANFIELD: You know, ion about 45 minutes, I`m just going to let you know that the pictures you`re seeing of the motor home -- go back to the

pictures of the chase, if you can, the 100-mile chase. Clearly you can see other cars passing, right. You can also see other cars driving along with

the motor home in certain parts where they haven`t been able to close the highway off. And guess what happens?

[18:15:00] people hear what`s going on in their radios and then they make calls. So in about 45 minutes you`re going to hear about a couple calls

that came from the highway where stunned motorists are saying, Jesus, I`m driving beside the motor home, and what kind of help they were able to give

the police as well. All right, Paul Vercammen, thank you. Art Roderick, thank you. I`m going to have you back, if you can stick around. Ashley

merchant, don`t go anywhere as well.

A senior skips day in Georgia goes tragically wrong when a teen loses control of her car, killing her best friend and then to ad insult to

injury, the defendant had the gall to ask the judge if she could keep her passport for a very special thing she had planned. We`ll tell you all

about it, next.

[18:20:00] [COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BANFIELD: This is the time of year the high school seniors have a lot to celebrate and a lot of days on the calendar to finally have little fun.

Like senior skip day, a tradition at Community Christian School south of Atlanta this year. And this year the skip day fell on March 26th. So that

was the day that Christina Pavon-Baker decided to get into her mini cooper with her best friend Makayla and go on a shopping trip, you know, foro

spring break bathing suits. And the two of them sped off for the mall. And when I say they sped off for the mall, they sped like hell.

Police say that Christina reached 106 miles an hour in a 65 mile an hour zone. That was before veering off I-75, flipping, and slamming into a tree,

in fact, hitting that tree so hard that it uprooted the tree. Makayla did not survive that crash. And while Christina suffered some serious injuries

of her own, she`s now facing a serious criminal charge, vehicular homicide.

And Christina was just released on bond, which means that she`d be asked to surrender her passport. And this is where the story veers off -- Christina

did something in court that has catapulted her into the headlines. Perhaps she was so just a little too preoccupied with the end of school year

celebrations. I might add that no longer involved her friend Makayla, but Christina`s attorney decided to ask the judge if Christina could keep her

passport so that Christina could go on a cruise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we would ask the court to allow her to leave the state and not put that restriction on her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, a vacation, a cruise with the family, with someone who`s accused of homicide. So you can imagine that the parents of her now dead

best friend would not appreciate that request in court very much and it certainly did send the district attorney into a tailspin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRACY GRAHAM LAWSON, CLAYTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If you look at her history, these parents have covered for her over and over and over again

and I believe in my (inaudible) Ms. Penn would be alive if they had this child have some consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, some consequences are now coming her way because Christina was released on a $31,000 bond, but she was not allowed to leave the

country and she has had to give up that passport, which likely means she will not be going on that very fancy vacation or any other boat like that

anytime soon.

I want to bring in my panel, Tina Douglas, freelance investigative reporter as well technology expert Mark Salzman, and defense attorney Ashleigh

Merchant stayed with us. All right Tina, where did I get the story wrong or is all of that fact pattern accurate?

TINA DOUGLAS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, you know, it`s quite unfortunate this happened on senior skip day where seniors are, you know,

expected to try and talk to colleges about getting into college and things of that sort. But as we know, a lot of teenagers make wrong decisions at

the wrong time and that appears to be what happened here.

BANFIELD: It may not be the only wrong decision in this case. In fact, there may be one more element to this case that has the headlines firing up

all over again. Because as people look at the pictures of that Mini Cooper, on the back of that flat bed, being dragged out of the crash and death

zone, they`re also going to be finding out likely about what was happening inside the car right before it went off the road, flipped and uprooted that

tree and killed Makayla. And it has something to do with Snapchat. I want you to listen to the Clayton County district attorney Tracy Graham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: We have some information that Snapchat may have been -- being used.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Tina, does that mean Snapchat may have been used?

DOUGLAS: Well, there`s an app on Snapchat where teenagers and other mainly younger drivers will show that they have reached over 100 miles per hour.

Obviously drivers and those who use it get a huge rush off of, you know, using this app. And then showing their friends and others who are on snap

chat that they have reached 100 miles per hour and recorded.

[18:25:00] There is a case that a Georgia man did file a suit against Snapchat and a driver who ran into him and left him with brain damage when

was using the app. But according to the judge in that case, they evidently have some kind of immunity from being prosecuted for it.

BANFIELD: Well, and I know Snapchat has made some adjustments to that particular feature --

DOUGLAS: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Again, that feature not entirely. There`s still some speed (inaudible) in fact, that`s a good point to bring up with Mark, Mark

Salzman. I can`t tell you that the hands that were operating the Snapchat at the moment that that happened were Christina`s and I don`t think you can

either, as smart as you are when it comes to technology. Nobody can put someone`s fingers on a device unless there`s other evidence. And the only

other person in that car is dead. Tell me a little bit about that app and sort of the lure behind it, Mark.

MARK SALZMAN, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT: So you`re right, there`s no proof that we know of yet that it was actually Christina, the driver, using Snapchat, but

the authorities seem to believe that she was using it and I have deduced this in one of three ways. One is that, yes, the speed was recorded using

that speed filter, which does say, by the way, don`t Snap and drive. But it does calculate your speed, even if it`s under 100 miles per hour, by the

way.

And you can share that, and that`s the second way that she may have been caught snapping while driving. And that is posting to her story. This is

when you share snaps, which are photos or videos with your friends and they`re all time and date stamped. So it will say, you know, posted five

minutes ago so, the investigators can deduce that she was driving at that time or unless her friend Makayla was doing it.

And then the third way is by working with the cellular provider. They know when data has been uploaded from a device on their network at a particular

time. If it`s a little bit of data, it maybe a text or (inaudible) message, it`s a larger piece of data, it could be a photo or video.

BANFIELD: And again, who knows the hands that were holding the device at the time of impact. That will be heavily litigated. Ashleigh Merchant

that`s probably where I should get you to pop in too, but not before we get to that other jaw dropping headline, which was - oh, pardon me judge, but

my client has some fun still left, you know, this spring and we want to make sure she can have that.

Its pity about the friend who can`t go through, you know, senior activities, but we`d like to go on a cruise. I want you to hear Jackie

Peterson, and that`s the defense attorney for Christina, I think trying to roll back the damage that obviously has been done. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE PETERTSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We were not trying to be insensitive. We were just trying to say, judge, she`s already had these tickets for this

cruise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

BANFIELD: -- I get it. I know how it goes. Look, he`s a defense attorney, this is his job. He`s supposed to litigate on behalf of his client. Does

it matter? Honestly, there`s no jury in that courtroom. These are all preliminaries. The only people that really matter in a case ultimately are

going to be jurors, right, on this kind of ugliness.

MERCHANT: Well, not necessarily because if she`s videoed what she was doing on Snapchat, there is pretty good evidence of guilt right there with

the video. So this is --

BANFIELD: Oh, I`m saying about the passport stuff. I mean, the headlines.

MERCHANT: But that`s - and that`s what I`m talking about. It`s going to be jury issue if she takes a plea. If she takes a plea in Georgia, she

faces up to 15 years in prison and that plea will be decided by a judge and determine what they recommend. So by asking --

BANFIELD: She`s only 17 though, right, and she was charged as an adult at 17.

MERCHANT: Yes.

BANFIELD: Does it make any difference that she`s only 17?

MERCHANT: You know, it`s what we would call mitigation and that`s what where I think the passport comment comes into play here because judges want

to see that the person has learned their lesson. They want to know they (ph) been punished and that they learned their lesson and they understand

the consequences of their actions. By asking for your passport to go on a cruise, that minimizes what she has done. And that makes it seem as though

she hasn`t taken this seriously. She`s not factoring in that she just killed someone.

[TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

BANFIELD: Real quickly, Tina Douglas, there`s one little thing and I have 30 seconds left, but jump on this if you can. Prosecutors seem to intimate

that it ain`t the first rodeo Christina has been to, that she`s had issues in the past. Does it not go into detail but they said something like the

parents have covered for her over and over again. Do you know what it meant?

DOUGLAS: Well, I believe about six or seven months ago she did get a citation for speeding and when it was taken to court, that she was given a

suspended fine of $50 for that infraction. Now, you know, that`s what we have been able to trace as far as her previous encounters with law

enforcement. You know, it`s like she has a nice car for a 17 or 18-year- old. So I don`t know.

BANFIELD: Speeding tickets aren`t a joke. They`re not just financial penalties.

DOUGLAS: Exactly.

[18:30:00] BANFIELD: They`re meant chase (ph) in you to say, you know what, people die.

DOUGLAS: That`s right.

BANFIELD: This is the kind of behavior that can kill people. It`s dangerous. Tina, thank you. Mark Salzman, thank you as well. And Ashleigh

you have to stay a while because anybody named Ashleigh has to work the whole show.

HERE

[18:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: -- penalties. They`re meant to chase on you to say, you know what, people die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.

BANFIELD: This is the kind of behavior that can kill people. It`s dangerous. Tina (ph), thank you. Mark Salzman (ph), thank you as well. And

Ashleigh, you have to stay as well, because anybody named Ashleigh has to work the whole show.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: That`s the rules, especially when you spell it L-E-I-G-H. So there`s some outrage tonight. I think that is an understatement, because

the picture that I`m about to show you went viral. Horrendous is not even strong enough to describe this photograph. I am going to warn you, it`s not

easy to look at it, because it`s a picture of a little kid, sweet little kid.

That is Jesse Harris, and Jesse Harris`s mom says this is how Jesse looked when she went to pick him up from the daycare. And now she and the police

are demanding answers from that daycare as to who did this to him. Surprisingly, we just don`t know right now. But Jesse`s mom is going to

join me next to tell her story.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tonight in Indianapolis, a 1-year-old boy is in the hospital, an adorable little baby whose name is Jesse. And Jesse is hurting,

understandably, look at him. He`s got horrendous cuts and bruises and swelling all over his sweet little face. And Jesse`s mom says this happened

at a daycare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIFFANY GRIFFIN, MOTHER OF JESSE HARRIS: I mean, I`m at a loss for words. I`m upset. My son has been crying. He hasn`t had no sleep. He`s very

uncomfortable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Jesse`s mom says the daycare called her, just a few hours after she dropped him off there. Apparently they said that he`d been sleeping in

another room along with another child, a 2-year-old. The daycare said that 2-year-old is a girl and that the girl must have, quote, scratched up his

face.

Scratched up his face. You take a good look at that little baby. Does that look like a 2-year-old scratched up his face? I thought you`d think that.

That`s exactly what Jesse`s mom thought. That answer was not good enough for Jesse`s mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: I just come to get my baby, and this is how my baby looked. He looks like an adult has been beating on him. This is my son. It`s OK, baby.

It`s OK. It`s OK. This is what happens at childcare.

This is why I`m at the daycare, I`m trying to keep my composure. I come to daycare and my 1-year-old is full of black -- I feel like an adult been

beating on my son. Look at this. Tell me, a kid did that? No, a kid didn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So now Jesse`s mother has to wait. She has to wait for the police who have now become involved and are investigating. And she has to

wait for little Jesse`s face to heal. But one decision might already have been made, that she will never be able to trust a daycare with her child

again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Shouldn`t have happened, whether it was a 2-year-old, shouldn`t have happened if it was an adult, shouldn`t have happened if a 2-year-old

did it under the care of an adult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think we can all agree with Tiffany Griffin that that shouldn`t happen to anyone, that shouldn`t happen to an adult, that

shouldn`t happen to a child. With me now is Tiffany Griffin. She is joining me now from Indianapolis on the phone. Tiffany, can you hear me OK?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Yes, I could.

BANFIELD: Tiffany, I am so sorry that you`ve had to go through this. My understanding is this happened on Monday, it`s only Wednesday. How is your

little boy doing today?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Right now he`s trying to eat slowly, getting back to his regular happy self. He`s being cradled by his grandma as we speak.

He`s having to drink out of a bottle, instead of a cup. He just transitioned to a cup, but you know, the bottle feels better because the

cup hurts his lips.

He`s slowly getting back to his self. Driving his little cars around, he loves toy cars. He`s not walking yet. He`s never walked yet, but, you know,

he`s slowly getting back to the happy baby he was.

BANFIELD: He`s not even walking yet. I think that tells us a lot about your little boy. And how defenseless he was in whatever happened at the daycare.

I guess that`s what I want to find out, as best you can, because as a mom, I cannot imagine what you went through when you found your boy looking like

that.

I`m not even sure you could hear what was being said, let alone process it and remember it. But what was the explanation that was given for your child

looking like this?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): I remember clearly, I remember clearly because it wasn`t really much said. When I received a call, my fiance was just getting

off the roof from cleaning the gutters.

[18:40:02] I received the call. I can tell you exact word for word that she said. She said, hi, this is Naya (ph). I just woke up baby Jesse from his

nap and seen that his face is swollen and it`s bleeding. I don`t know what happened, but could you come get him?

BANFIELD: And that was the explanation, that somehow the little child sleeping in the same room, two years old, a young girl did it. Can I ask

you something? Had Jesse ever had an experience at the daycare before with other kids? Or that particular 2-year-old they`re blaming, had that

particular 2-year-old been aggressive with him or anybody else?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): I`m not sure. I wasn`t told anything about that. But I was told that my 3-year-old, my 3-year-old son had been fighting on

that same 2-year-old. And I had already put in a two weeks` notice just because something didn`t sound right because I got and spoke with my son

about it and disciplined him for that, my 3-year-old about that, and he said that he didn`t hit her.

But, you know, the daycare people told me that that 2-year-old was one year old, which was a lie. And basically -- it`s something when they kept saying

that my son, my 3-year-old son kept acting out, and that was random because he never did that at that daycare before and he`s a good kid.

I just felt in my heart that something wasn`t right. And then I asked my 3- year-old, I said, do you like going to that daycare? He said no, I want to go back to the academy. Right then and there, I told them I was putting in

my two weeks` notice to take my kids out, all of my kids, because --

BANFIELD: That`s too long, right?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Yeah, I had a gut feeling that something was wrong. So it was, you know, they told me that that same 2-year-old, my son

was hitting on the 3-year-old, but I didn`t believe it. And I just -- it was at the time when the director, Walter, was out of the country, you

know, and --

BANFIELD: Your 3-year-old, to be clear, your 3-year-old didn`t see what happened to the baby brother, the 1-year-old, right, like they weren`t in

the same room? I don`t know if the 3-year-old was present in the daycare at the time.

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Well, yes, my 3-year-old was there. And he told me, this is what he told me, I`m unsure what he told the detectives today

when I let him go in for questioning, they didn`t want me in the room with him or anything. He told me that he seen Naya (ph), the girl, hitting on

the baby brother, and then she made them go in the room and take a nap. That`s what my 3-year-old told me on the scene.

BANFIELD: And the detectives were interviewing your 3-year-old today?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Yes. I took him in to the Child Advocacy Center, which I felt like they should have did it on the same day when I went up

there like I was told by following direction, but I put my fiance on the ambulance with my son and sending him to the emergency room, and waiting

those hours at the location when they told me CPS was about to come to the house, which they didn`t.

And they told me go right down the street to the CPS building so my son could get interviewed. And I went there and I was waiting like 20 to 30

minutes or probably less than that. But I was waiting and I got told that they didn`t need nothing from me and they would contact me later.

BANFIELD: Wow.

GRIFFIN (via telephone): And I left.

BANFIELD: You had your 3-year-old with you, and they could have interviewed him right then. I meant, that were two days later. You know how

long that is for a little kid. It`s a lifetime. Real quickly, I want to play if I can this little moment of you in the hospital with Jesse.

We`re seeing these pictures of Jesse wearing a neck brace, and, you know, he looks like he`s coming around and he`s smiling, but he`s clearly injured

in the hospital wearing a neck brace. I just want to see this one moment of you in the hospital with him. Let`s have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN (voice over): Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Give me my

phone, baby.

(LAUGHTER)

GRIFFIN (voice over): You gonna take my phone. Don`t take my phone, baby.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, my god, Tiffany, I can`t imagine how happy that must make you feel just to hear him laughing. Because in other stories we`ve covered,

it`s been so much worse.

GRIFFIN (via telephone): I was scared with him.

BANFIELD: Yeah. All right, so, can you stay with me, Tiffany? I`ve got a couple other questions for you after the break. I also have a couple of

tips for people watching right now about what you can do to try to prevent anything from happening at a daycare, and how you can vet -- there is a lot

you can do in advance of committing into a daycare so that you can possibly avoid something like this happening.

[18:45:02] We`ll be back in just a couple minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tiffany Harris -- or Tiffany Griffin is Jesse Harris`s mother. When she went to pick him up at the daycare on Monday, he looked like this.

[18:50:00] And still no explanation that`s satisfying other than a 2-year- old at the day care did it. You know, Tiffany, I`m with you. I have a tough time believing that a 2-year-old could inflict this kind of injury on a 1-

year-old. And I know that you were overwrought. I`m told that you were so upset you hit the daycare worker. Are you facing any trouble for that?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): No. The police said if it was him, he probably would have done more than that.

BANFIELD: That`s probably good news for you. But have they said anything about their investigation right now? Because they`re into this thick (ph).

And they`re looking at every aspect, right? Have they said that they know one way or the other, whether it was the 2-year-old fellow toddler or

whether it was a grownup at the daycare that did this?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): No, the detectives told me they`re thoroughly investigating. And basically he has to still investigate the 5-year-old on

the scene, and hopefully the 2-year-old, maybe if she could talk or whatever. But basically --

BANFIELD: They`ve got to interview kids.

GRIFFIN (via telephone): The lady at the hospital said she can`t say if it was an adult or she can`t say if it was definite a child, but it`s

consistent on marks that could be from a child, but some adults have small feet. She said that, looking from the picture I showed her of Naya (ph),

that the piece was -- her feet was small too.

I got a message on Facebook messenger. I got a message on Facebook messenger from someone that said she knows her and her violent past and

gave me her phone number. I`ve been on the phone with two guys and I`m definitely going to give that young lady a call.

BANFIELD: We want to be really careful that no one`s been charged in this. We don`t want to name minors. We don`t want to name people who haven`t been

charged.

GRIFFIN (via telephone): OK.

BANFIELD: Hold on one second if you can, Tiffany. I want to bring in Ashley Willcott, certified child welfare law specialist and also trial

attorney and a juvenile court judge, what a perfect voice on this.

Tell me, and everyone else watching horrified at Jesse`s injuries, what can we do for ourselves when it comes to picking a daycare? And there are lots

of little things that you might not think of that can make them way more safe. Tell me your favorite top tips.

ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: Sure. My favorite top tips, first of all, don`t assume because a daycare facility is licensed

that it`s good or appropriate, regrettably. Check on line and look at inspection reports so that you can look at them and say, have they ever

failed an inspection, if so, why, was it remedied or not, to see whether or not it`s dangerous for children to be there.

Second, what you also need to do is look online at reviews. Go in parents who are taking kids and picking kids up and talk to them and say, hey, by

the way, is this something that you like this daycare? How do you feel about it? How do they treat your children? Ask if it can be video

monitored.

A lot of the home care that people pick for the right reasons, which is a small home environment for your child which can be favorable, a lot of

those may not do video monitoring but ask. Ask them if they ever had citations, if they ever had inspections that they`ve had to remedy.

And lastly, and this mother did it and gave two weeks` notice, and I`m so, so sorry, my heart goes out to her and this little baby, but trust your

gut. If there`s any reason that you feel like something`s amiss, this isn`t the best place, trust your gut. And this particular case, they had had

inspection violations in the past. At this particular daycare.

BANFIELD: I say cameras, cameras, cameras. And live cameras that you can look in on. Ashley, thank you. My goodness, three Ashleys on this program

today. Ashley, thank you for those tips. My thanks to Tiffany as well, Tiffany Griffin, and our best to little Jesse Harris as he recovers.

You know, we are used to seeing police officers in rescue mode day in and day out, but we are not used to seeing them like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just because we`re in the big city don`t mean we don`t have small town problems. There`s literally a chicken at 10th and

Portland.

BANFIELD: So the question is, why did the chicken cross that road? There is an answer, trust me, there really is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s literally a chicken at 10th and Portland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. And it could be the answer to an age-old question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just because we`re in the big city don`t mean we don`t have small town problems. There`s literally a chicken at 10th and

Portland. And she`s crossing the road.

BANFIELD: You asked, we answered. Why did the chicken cross the road? Because he was looking for the crosswalk. Look at him. He chose the

crosswalk. It might have been a she.

[19:00:00] They`re calling her a her, which makes me think she`s a she. The police actually did try to find out where she was headed and where she

was from. But she apparently lawyered (ph) up, so we don`t know. She found a winged man (ph) --

HERE

[19:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: The police actually did try to find out where she was head and where she was from. But she apparently

lawyered up, so we don`t know. She found a wing man. He had legs. But I`m not going to beat the drumstick on the story anymore.

Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD (voice-over): Tonight, a registered sex offender is on the run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was really rough. A rough looking character.

BANFIELD: Fleeing on foot after kidnapping two kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly med, with a firearm.

BANFIELD: And leading police on a hundred mile chase through L.A. in a motor home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are on sunset now, right in the heart of Hollywood.

BANFIELD: Where he could be tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Hook is not in the vehicle.

BANFIELD: And what he is accused of doing before the drive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you start to think maybe there`s a toddler on board, you have a parolee on board and domestic violence effect, it`s

challenging for police officers and it`s frightening.

BANFIELD: And the girl who wants to go on a cruise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would ask the court to allow her to leave the state and not put that restriction on her.

BANFIELD: Now she is accused of killing her best friend in a car crash after speeding over 100 miles an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were not trying to be insensitive. We were just trying to say, judge, she`s already had these tickets for this cruise.

BANFIELD: Now, know the distraction that might have just made their drive deadly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some information that Snap Chat may have been being used.

BANFIELD: So how does she think she could get off the hook?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I believe in my heart of hearts Ms. Penn would be alive if they had this child had consequences. She doesn`t need to be on a

cruise enjoying herself.

BANFIELD: And was this baby beaten?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at a loss for words.

BANFIELD: At the one place kids are supposed to be cared for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just any way it goes.

BANFIELD: The day care worker says another toddler is to blame. But his mom says that`s impossible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It shouldn`t have happened, whether it was a 2-year- old, shouldn`t have happened if it was an adult. It shouldn`t have happened if the 2-year-old did it under the care of an adult.

BANFIELD: Find out who police are investigating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was me or him -- I think it should be a full investigation. Do something about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.

Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

We are still tracking an urgent manhunt tonight for registered child sex offender who is on the run in hiding in California. This is him. Police

say 46-year-old, Steven Hauk (ph) who kidnapped two young children they say, a little boy and a little girl, actually his own two children. Police

say he took them and the family dog and put them in that motor home. Stealing them away from their mother, driving them in that motor home right

through the heart of Hollywood. And that is where a four-hour police chase would kick off. And it may not have been high speed. Make no mistake, it

was scary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The toddler on board, you have a parolee on board, a domestic violence suspect. It`s challenging for police officers and it`s

frightening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Police would end up chasing Hauk a hundred miles, all the way up the freeway to a rural area north of Bakersfield. This is where it came to

an end, right there. Drove the motor home into an Almond orchard and promptly got it stuck. But rather than giving up and insisting on the

safety of his two small children, he instead bolted. And he abandoned those two small children and the family dog inside that motor home

surrounded by police.

It`s a mystery. But somehow he escaped that orchard on foot, despite a filings of police cars pursuing him. Fortunately, that 3-year-old little

boy on the left and that 11-month old little girl being hugged are OK, or at least they seemed to be OK. They have been reunited with their mom

after the rescue from that motor home. They were inspected for injury. But the 46-year-old Steven Hauk is still out there somewhere tonight, and

police say he is armed and dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFC. ROBERT RODRIGUEZ, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL: Possibly armed, with a firearm. We have yet to retrieve a firearm from the scene. So we`re still

actively searching for that as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me live tonight from Bakersfield, Terry Maxwell, talk show host on KNCR Radio, also CNN law enforcement analyst and former

assistant director of U.S. Marshalls Art Roderick is with me, and defense attorney Ashley Merchant will join us as well.

First to you, Terry Maxwell, you are live on air on your radio program, and the calls start coming in to you from your listeners. They are driving

alongside and nearby that motor home. What are your callers telling you?

[19:05:07] TERRY MAXWELL, TALK SHOW HOST, KNCR RADIO (on the phone): Well, we immediately were told by some of the people in our station here that

there was a chase going on. It was in Bakersfield, start out in Los Angeles. And right away we start getting people calling us, telling us,

wait a minute, you are not g to believe what`s right behind me right now. There is a guy in an RV and there is a whole bunch of police that are

following him.

One lady said that she just pulled onto this road and saw all the police and the RV went just right by her. She couldn`t believe it. So it was

interesting to hear everybody`s different perspectives, the roads that he went on, here in Bakersfield meant that he was going really, really slow,

he was not causing any real danger to anybody. But he eventually got on the main freeway and went north of Bakersfield.

BANFIELD: And were they able to help in terms of their -- what they witnessed, and their observations, with they able to help the police in

terms of saying I can see the children through the big window, they are, they are not buckled, I can see would be in the front seat or in the

backseat, were they able to give any kind of further detail in their description of this case?

MAXWELL: Not really. I think that this RV was moving so slowly. That I think the police had a pretty good grip on exactly what they were dealing

with this gentleman. And I know that they were following at a safe distance and not trying to get him too upset. Because if he got those kids

in the RV and he is armed, the last thing they want to do is get him to the point where he is upset and starts making big mistakes, and harming people

in our community.

BANFIELD: The images are really remarkable, as look at all the different vantage points that TV news cameramen and women were able to get, you know,

the pursuit as it went by. I could not help to think about the O.J. chase. It was very like this. It went on for such a long time. It was live on

television. The police were in pursuit with as many vehicles, maybe more. And it never got over the speed limit.

And is that roughly what this appeared to be as well, the kind of slow speed chase that had your communities transfixed but at the same time

nobody really knew how to bring it to an end?

MAXWELL: I would say that`s exactly what went through my mind, that this was reflective of exactly what happened with the O.J. slow chase. This

gentleman went through Bakersfield, didn`t cause really any concern for anybody other than all of the police officers that were following him.

BANFIELD: Yes, safe distance. That`s a great point that you bring up. You know, SWAT type vehicle that`s there as well.

MAXWELL: Right.

BANFIELD: But since this case went for 100 miles, he is going in and out of different jurisdictions. Did those officers have to sort of drop off

the pursuit as new officers from different counties had to jump in.

MAXWELL: Actually, what happened was down in Los Angeles the sheriff`s department was following it at first CHP took it over and pursued the RV

all the way up into the Bakersfield area. Once they were up in Bakersfield area and the RV got off the freeway, I know that the current county

sheriff`s deputies were in pursuit also as he went up into the area where he ultimately was not able to move the RV out of the sandy sort of an area

around Orchard.

I think what really helped them was two things. Number one they thought he was armed, and with the kids inside the vehicle, I`m sure they had to

approach this vehicle very, very slowly. And he is in an area, you got it up on satellite right now. He`s in an area where you have got trees,

almond trees, and some of them are fairly old, maybe 20-year-old trees and some of them are fairly young. I`m sure he got into the middle of the

older trees. And by the time they got to the van or to his RV, taking safe approach to it, he was long gone.

BANFIELD: So let`s get our viewers up to speed, just on some of the details as to how this began. Apparently he was in some kind of dispute

with the mom of the children, grabbed the two children, and the family dog, loaded them into that RV, that motor home, and then took off. Which means

that obviously, the information of who was in the RV would have come from the mother, the distraught mother calling into authorities for help. They

track him down and the chase was on.

So I want to ask you, Art Roderick, if you can weigh in on the manhunt aspect of this because I`m not super familiar with the Bakersfield area,

but it seems to me that where he got stuck in the almond orchard is somewhat rural. I don`t know if there are a lot of homes in that area.

But I do know that if you take off with your kids and the family dog in the RV after the fight, you are not prepared with supplies and foul weather

gear and warm clothing and food, and what it would take to be a survivalist in the woods. So that is going to a helped to the marshals tracking him.

[19:10:09] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Exactly. And what you will do is, this is going to be a lot of manpower, intense manpower in

the beginning here. I mean, they set up a perimeter, but they stopped that basic perimeter search around midnight. And so what we have got now is

sort of a twofold investigation going on.

I`m sure they are checking abandoned locations around there. Any place he could have found shelter. But they are also looking at a broader sort of

long-term more of a fugitive investigation that the Marshalls are used to conducting. So there`s a couple of different aspects going on here.

But the bottom line is the kids, and these are his biological children, I just can`t even imagine a father doing this, but the kids are safe. So now

we have got an individual possibly armed and dangerous that is out there. So I`m sure there`s a public safety issue going on here. They have this

individual`s picture blasted out all around the immediate area. And law enforcement is going to be looking in abandoned locations, any crimes,

carjackings, car thefts that are done in that particular area, to put this individual in custody.

BANFIELD: He`s on foot, right?

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: And again, he doesn`t have a lot of survivalist material with him because this all happened in an instant. He wasn`t prepared for this

to happen. It was sort of a contemporaneous action that happened.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: So with that in mind you don`t get very far in that kind of terrain on foot. I would think they could be heat seeking all throughout

the night, and be able to track him fairly easily. Not so?

RODERICK: I would agree with you. The four look infrared on a helicopter is probably going to be their best point at this particular time, or even

k-9 tracking. It seems to me that he had whatever was available in that RV. He could have had some supplies in there. But whatever he had in that

RV, he probably took with him that he needed to possibly get away. But it seems to me that since they have broken down that internal sort of manhunt,

the internal perimeter, that we might be looking at possibly a longer type of investigation. But it just seems to me that he is pretty much in a

rural area there.

BANFIELD: Yes.

RODERICK: They have got to put hands on him pretty soon.

BANFIELD: Let me ask Harry really quickly, I think the details matter, as a mom I can`t imagine putting my child in a car without a car seat, double

checking it, all the rest.

But Terry, do you know if you had that 11-month old baby girl in a car seat, do we know if the 3-year-old boy was in a seat belt anywhere in the

motor home? Do we know where they were found when those deputies finally broached the motor home, thinking he was in there, only to find two

abandoned children in there alone?

MAXWELL: From what I have read and gathered from some of the news that I have listened to, the kids were, I would say, pretty much kind of roaming

around as they wanted to. I would not say that the 11-month-old, but definitely the 3-year-old was not really restrained. And that when they

finally were able to overtake the vehicle and open it up, they simply found them in pretty safe, there was a dog in there also, a family dog. And

everybody was safe. But I don`t think that they were really following the safest procedures in terms of those kids being harnessed and seat belted

in.

BANFIELD: No kidding.

Here they are from the L.A. county sheriff`s office, giving us these pictures of them, you know, this is what you do with little kids when they

are at the office and they don`t have anything to do, you give them a typewriter and you snuggle them until mom can come and be reunited with

them.

But these pictures are heartwarming and sad all of the same time, to see that little 3-year-old boy, I don`t know how much he would even know about

what was going on. And certainly the 11-month-old girl probably wanted a snack. Want (INAUDIBLE), somewhere for ice cream.

Real quickly, Ashley Merchant, the issue of who he is, apparently this is not just any kind of child sex offender, this guy is a violent child sex

offender. His victim apparently was a 14-year-old girl. We are told by our Paul Vercammen of CNN that this was a sodomy case. But when the police

were asked about it they said the details are too egregious to even discuss with all of that in mind. He was an Oregon offender and he is driving in

California, which makes me wonder if any of this could be a federal crime.

ASHLEY MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. Well, and he served eight years in prison. So it had to have been a serious crime that he was convicted

for since he served eight years in prison. He has been on parole since 2010. So hopefully they have got a file that includes all of his family

members, all known associates so that they can track him down quickly like this.

They could potentially involve the federal government, but most likely this would be a state crime because it`s a domestic violence type crime. So he

would probably be prosecuted in state court.

BANFIELD: Well, let`s hope they find him. The manhunt is on. And if you are watching tonight, skull tattoo, apparently cow spelled tattoo somewhere

on his forearm. So that is a really good marking.

Terry Maxwell, Art Roderick and Ashley Merchant, thank you.

Ashley, I`m going to ask you to stay, if you would for me, please.

A senior skip day in Georgia going tragically wrong when a teenager loses control of her mini cooper, and her best friend is killed. But to add

insult to this injury, the defendant walks into the courtroom and has the gall to ask the judge if she can keep her passport for a fancy vacation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:14] BANFIELD: This is the time of year the high school seniors have a lot to celebrate. And a lot of days on the calendar to finally have a

little fun like senior skip day. A tradition at community Christian school south of Atlanta this year. And this year the skip day fell on March 26th.

So that was the day that Christina Pavon-Baker, I should say, decided to get into her mini cooper with her best friend Michaela and go on a little

shopping trip. You know, for spring break bathing suits. And the two of them sped off to the mall.

And when I say they sped off to the mall, they sped like hell. Police say that Christina reached 106 miles an hour in a 65 mile an hour zone. That

was before veering off I-75, flipping, and slamming into a tree. In fact, hitting that tree so hard that it uprooted the tree.

Michaela did not survive that crash. And while Christina suffered some serious injuries of her own, she is now facing a serious criminal charge,

vehicular homicide. And Christina was just released on bond, which means that she would be asked to surrender her passport. And this is where the

story veers off dangerously as well.

Christina did something in court that has catapulted her to the headlines. Perhaps she was still just a little too preoccupied with the end of school

year celebrations. I might add that no longer involved her friend Michaela. But Christina`s attorney decided to ask the judge if Christina

could keep her passport so that Christina could go on a cruise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we would ask the court to allow her to leave the state and not put that restriction on her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, a vacation, a cruise with the family, with someone who is accused of homicide. So you can imagine that the parents of her now dead

best friend would not appreciate that request in court very much and it certainly did sent the district attorney into a tail spin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRACY GRAHAM, CLAYTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If you look at her history, these parents have covered for her over and over again. Ms. Penn

would be alive if they had this child have some consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, some consequences with now coming her way because Christina was released on a $31,000 bond, but she was not allowed to leave

the country. And she has had to give up that passport, which likely means she will not be going on that very fancy vacation or any other boat like

that anytime soon.

I want to bring in my panel, Tina Douglas, freelance investigative reporter. As well technology expert Mark Salzman, and defense attorney

Ashley Merchant has stayed with us.

All right. Tina, where did I get this story wrong or is all the fact pattern accurate?

TINA DOUGLAS, FREELANCE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, you know, it`s quite unfortunate that this happened on senior skip day where seniors are, you

know, expected to try and talk to colleges about getting into college and things of that sort. But as we know, a lot of teenagers make wrong

decisions at the wrong time and that appears to be what happened here.

BANFIELD: It may not be the only wrong decision in this case. In fact, there may be one more element to this case that has the headlines firing up

all over again. Because as people look at the pictures of that mini cooper, on the back of that flat bed, being dragged out of the crash and

death zone, they are also going to be finding out likely about what was happening inside the car right before it went off the road, flipped and

uprooted that tree and killed Michaela. And it has something to do with Snap Chat. I want you to listen to the Clayton County district attorney

Tracy Graham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: We have some information that Snap Chat may have been being used.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Tina, what does that mean, Snap Chat may have been used?

DOUGLAS: Well, there is an app on Snap Chat where teenagers and other mainly younger drivers are using that will show that they have reached over

100 miles per hour. Obviously drivers and those who use it get a huge rush off of, you know, using this app. And then showing their friends and

others who are on Snap Chat that they have reached 100 miles per hour. And it`s actually recorded.

There is a case that a Georgia man did file suit against Snap Chat and a driver who ran into him and left him with brain damage because he was using

the app. But according to the judge in that case, they evidently have some kind of immunity from being prosecuted for it.

BANFIELD: Well. And I know that Snap Chat has made some adjustments to that particular feature, not entirely. So there`s still some speed

features on the -- in fact, that`s a good point to bring up with Mark, Mar Salzman.

Mark, I can`t tell you that the hands that were operating the Snap Chat at the moment that that happened were Christina`s, and I don`t think you can

either, as smart as you are when it comes to technology. Nobody can put someone`s fingers on a device unless there`s other evidence. And the only

other person in that car is dead. But tell me a little bit about that app. And sort of the lure behind it, Mark.

[19:25:39] MARK SALZMAN, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT: So you are right. There`s no proof that we know of yet that it was actually Christina, the driver, using

Snap Chat. But the authorities seem to believe that she was using it. And I deduce this in one of three ways.

One is that, yes, the speed was recorded using that speed filter which does say, by the way, don`t snap and drive. But it does calculate your speed,

even if it`s under 100 miles per hour, by the way. And you can share that, and that`s the second way that she may have been caught snapping while

driving. And that is posting to her story. This is when you share snaps, which are photos or videos with your friends, and they are all time and

date stamped. So it will say, you know, posted five minutes ago. So the investigators can deduce she was driving at that time, unless her friend

Michaela was doing it.

And then the third way is by working with the cellular provider. They know when data has been uploaded from a device on their network at a particular

time. If it`s a little bit of data, it may be a text or an instant message. If it is larger piece of data, it could be a photo or video.

BANFIELD: And again, who knows the hands that were holding the device at the time of impact. That will be heavily litigated, I assume.

And Ashley Merchant, that`s probably where I should get you to pop in too. But not before we get to that other jaw dropping headline, which was --

pardon me, judge, but you know, my client has fun still left, you know, this spring and we want to make sure she can have that. It is pity about

the friend who can`t go through, you know, senior activities, but we would like to go on a cruise.

I want you to hear Jackie Peterson, and that is the defense attorney for Christina, trying to roll back the damage that`s obviously been done. Have

a listen.

MERCHANT: Right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were not trying to be insensitive. We were just trying to say, judge, she has already had these tickets for this cruise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Ashley Merchant, I get it. I know how it goes. Look, defense attorney, this is his job. He is supposed to litigate on behalf of

his client. And does it matter? I mean, honestly, there`s no jury in that courtroom. These are all preliminaries, the only people really matter that

case ultimately are going to be jurors, right, when it comes to the ugliness.

MERCHANT: Well, not necessarily. Because if she has videoed what she was doing on Snap Chat, there is pretty good evidence of guilt right there with

the video.

BANFIELD: I mean the passport stuff.

MERCHANT: But that -- and that is what I`m talking about. It`s not going to be a jury issue if she takes a plea. If she takes a plea in Georgia,

she faces up to 15 years in prison and that plea will be decided by a judge and that prosecutor will determine what they recommend. So by asking --

BANFIELD: She`s only 17 though, right. She was charged as an adult at 17.

MERCHANT: Yes.

BANFIELD: Does it make any difference that she`s only 17?

MERCHANT: You know, it`s what we would call mitigation. And that`s where I think the passport comment comes into play here because judges want to

see that the person has learned their lesson. They want to know that the defendant has been punished and that they learned their lesson and they

understand the consequences of their actions. By asking for your passport, to go on a cruise, that minimizes what she has done. And that makes it

seem as though she hasn`t taken this seriously. She is not factoring in that she just killed someone.

BANFIELD: Hey, real quickly, Tina Douglas, there is one little thing. And I only have 30 seconds left. But jump on this if you can. Prosecutors

seem to intimate that it isn`t the first rodeo that Christina`s been to. That she has had some issues in the past. They did not go into detail.

But they said something like the parents have covered for her over and over again. Do you know what it meant?

DOUGLAS: Well, I believe about six or seven months ago she did get a citation for speeding. And when it was taken to court, that she was given

a suspended fine of $50 for that infraction. Now, you know, that`s what we have been able to trace as far as her previous encounters with law

enforcement. You know, it`s like she has a nice car for a 17 or 18-year- old. So I don`t know.

BANFIELD: That speeding tickets aren`t a joke. They are not just financial penalties.

DOUGLAS: Exactly.

BANFIELD: They are meant to chasing you to say, you know what, people die. This is the kind of behavior that can kill people. It`s dangerous.

Tina, thank you. Mark, Salzman, thank you as well. And Ashley, you have to stay as well. Because anybody named Ashley has to work the whole show.

That`s the rules, especially when you spell it L-E-I-G-H.

So there`s some outrage tonight. I think that`s an understatement. Because the picture I`m about to show you went viral. Horrendous is not

even strong enough to describe this photograph. I am going to warn you, it`s not easy to look at it because it`s a picture of a little kid, sweet

little kid. That`s Jesse Harris, and Jesse Harris` mom says this is how Jesse looked when she went to pick him up from the day care. And now, she

and the police are demanding answers from that day care as to who did this to him. Surprisingly, we just don`t know right now, but Jesse`s mom is

going to join me next to tell her story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:36] BANFIELD: Tonight, in Indianapolis, a 1-year-old boy is in the hospital, an adorable little baby boy, whose name is Jesse, and Jesse is

hurting, understandably, look at him. He`s got horrendous cuts and bruises and swelling all over his sweet little face. And Jesse`s mom says this

happened at a day care.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIFFANY GRIFFIN, MOTHER OF JESSE HARRIS: I mean, I`m loss for words. I`m upset. My son has been crying. He hasn`t had no sleep and he`s very

uncomfortable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Jesse`s mom says the day care called her just a few hours after she dropped him off there. Apparently, they said that he`d been sleeping

in another room along with another child, a 2-year-old. Day care said that 2-year-old was a girl and that the girl must have, quote, scratched up his

face. Scratched up his face. You take a good look at that little baby. Does that look like a 2-year-old scratched up his face? I thought you`d

think that because that`s exactly what Jesse`s mom thought. That answer was not good enough for Jesse`s mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: You have to come to Kiddie Garden to get my baby, and this is how my baby looked. He looked like an adult been beating on him. This is my

son. It`s OK, baby. It`s OK. It`s OK. This is what happens at child care. This is why -- I`m at the day care, I`m trying to keep my composure.

I already told one mother (BLEEP) day care. I come to day care and my 1- year-old full of (BLEEP) black. I feel like an adult been beating on (BLEEP). Look at this. Tell me a kid did that? No, a kid didn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, now, Jesse`s mother has to wait. She has to wait for the police who have now become involved and are investigating. And she has to

wait for little Jesse`s face to heal. But one decision might already have been made, that she will never be able to trust a day care with her child

again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Shouldn`t happen whether it was a 2-year-old, it shouldn`t happen if it was an adult, it shouldn`t happen if a 2-year-old did it under the

care of an adult.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think we can all agree with Tiffany Griffin that that shouldn`t happen to anyone. That shouldn`t happen to an adult, that

shouldn`t happen to a child. Now, with me now, is Tiffany Griffin. She`s joining me now from Indianapolis on the phone. Tiffany, can you hear me

OK?

GRIFFIN (via telephone): Yes, I could.

BANFIELD: Tiffany, I am so sorry that you have had to go through this. My understanding is this happened on Monday. It`s only Wednesday, how is your

little boy doing today?

GRIFFIN: Right now, he`s trying to eat slowly, getting back to his regular happy self. He`s being cradled by his grandma as we speak. And he`s

having to drink out of a bottle instead of a cup because he just transitioned to a cup, but, you know, the swelling and stuff to his lips

(INAUDIBLE) a bottle feels better because the cup would, you know, like, hurt his lips, but he`s slowly getting back to his self, driving his little

cars around because he loves toy cars. He`s not walking yet. He`s never walked yet, but, you know, he`s slowly getting back to the happy baby he

was.

BANFIELD: He`s not even walking yet. I think that tells us a lot about your little boy and how defenseless he was in whatever happened at the day

care. I guess that`s what I want to find out, as best you can, because as a mom I cannot imagine what you went through when you found your boy

looking like that. I`m not even sure you could hear what was being said, let alone process it and remember it. But what was the explanation that

was given for your child looking like this?

GRIFFIN: I remember clearly. I remember clearly because it wasn`t really much said. When I received a call, my fiance was on -- just getting off

the roof from cleaning the gutters and I received the call, and I can tell you exact word for word that she said. She said, hi, this is Naya, I just

woke up baby Jesse from his nap, and seen that his face is swollen and it`s bleeding. I don`t know what happened, but could you come get him?

[19:40:00] BANFIELD: And that was the explanation. That, somehow, the little child, sleeping in the same room, two years old, a young girl did

it. Can I ask you something? Had Jesse ever had an experience at the day care before with other kids, or that particular 2-year-old they`re blaming?

Had that particular 2-year-old been aggressive with him or anybody else?

GRIFFIN: I`m not sure. I wasn`t told anything about that. But I was told that my 3-year-old, my 3-year-old son had been fighting on that same 2-

year-old. And I had already put in a two weeks` notice just because something didn`t sound right because I got and spoke with my son about it

and disciplined him for that, my 3-year-old about that, and he said that he didn`t hit her. But, you know, the day care people told me that that 2-

year-old was one years old, which was a lie. And basically, it`s something that -- when they kept saying that my son, my 3-year-old son kept acting

out, and that was random because he never did that at that, you know, day care before, and he`s a good kid. I just felt in my heart that something

wasn`t right. And then, I asked my 3-year-old, I said, do you like going to that day care? And he said, no, I want to go back to (INAUDIBLE)

academy. So, right then and there, I checked them and told them I was going to put -- I was getting in my two weeks` notice to take my kids out,

all of my kids because I had a gut feeling --

BANFIELD: And two weeks is too long, right?

GRIFFIN: Yes, I had a gut feeling that something was wrong. So, it was, you know, they told me that that same 2-year-old, my son was hitting on,

the 3-year-old, but I didn`t believe it. And I didn`t -- it was at the time when the director, Walter, was out of the country, you know, and --

BANFIELD: And your 3-year-old, to be clear -- to be clear, your 3-year-old didn`t see what happened to the baby brother, the 1-year-old, right? Like,

they weren`t in the same room and -- or I don`t even know if the 3-year-old was present in the day care at the time.

GRIFFIN: Well, yes, the -- my 3-year-old was there. And he told me -- this is what he told me, I`m unsure what he told the detectives today when

I let him go in for questioning because they didn`t want me in the room with him or anything. He told me that he seen Naya, the girl, hitting on

the baby brother, and then, she made them go in the room and take a nap. That`s what my 3-year-old told me on the scene.

BANFIELD: And detectives were interviewing your 3-year-old today?

GRIFFIN: Yes. I took him in to The Child Advocacy Center, which I felt like they should have did it on that same day when I went up there like I

was told by following directions, but including my fiance on the ambulance with my son and sending him to the emergency room, and waiting those hours

at the location when they told me CPS was about to come to the house, which they didn`t. And then, they told me go right down the street to the CPS

building so my son could get interviewed and I went there and I was waiting, like, 20 to 30 minutes, or probably less than that. But I was

waiting, and I got told that they didn`t need nothing from me and they would contact me later and I left.

BANFIELD: Wow, and you had your -- you had your 3-year-old with you, and they could have interviewed him right then. I mean, now we`re two days

later.

GRIFFIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And God, you know how long that is for a little kid. It`s a lifetime. Real quickly, I want to play if I can --

GRIFFIN: Exactly.

BANFIELD: -- this little moment of you in the hospital with Jesse. We`re seeing these pictures of Jesse wearing a neck brace, and, you know, he

looks like he`s coming around and he`s smiling, but he`s clearly injured in the hospital wearing a neck brace. I just want to see this one moment of

you in the hospital with him. Let`s have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my phone, baby. Don`t take my

phone, baby. You going take my phone. Don`t take my phone, baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, my God, Tiffany. I can`t imagine how happy that must make you feel just to hear him laughing because in other stories that we`ve

covered, it`s been so much worse.

GRIFFIN: I was there. That was his dad playing with him.

BANFIELD: Yes. All right. So, I wanted to -- can you stay with me, Tiffany? I`ve got a couple other questions for you after the break. I

also have a couple of tips for people watching right now about what you can do to try to prevent anything from happening at a day care, and how you can

vet day -- there`s a lot you can do in advance of committing, you know, into a day care so that you can possibly avoid something like this

happening. We`ll be back in just a couple minutes.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tiffany Harris -- or Tiffany Griffin is Jesse Harris` mother. When she went to pick him up at the day care on Monday, he looked like

this. And still no explanation that`s satisfying other than a 2-year-old at the day care did it. You know, Tiffany, I`m with you. I have a tough

time believing that a 2-year-old could inflict this kind of injury on a 1- year-old. And I know that you were overwrought. I`m told that you were so upset you hit the day care worker. Are you facing any trouble for that?

[19:50:09] GRIFFIN: No, the police said if it was him, he probably would have did more than that.

BANFIELD: Well, that`s probably good news.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: But have -- but have they said anything about their investigation right now because they`re into this thick, and they`re

looking at every aspect, right? Have they said that they know, one way or the other, whether it was the 2-year-old fellow toddler or whether it was a

grown up at the day care that did this?

GRIFFIN: No, the detectives told me they are thoroughly investigating, and basically, he have to still investigate the 5-year-old that was on the

scene and hopefully, the 2-year-old, maybe if she could talk or whatever, but basically --

BANFIELD: They got to interview the little kids, you know.

GRIFFIN: The lady at the hospital -- the lady at the hospital said she can`t say if it was an adult, she can`t say if it was definite a child but

it`s consistent on marks that could be from a child, but some adults have small teeth and she said that it looked -- from the picture I showed her of

Naya that the teeth was -- her teeth was small, too.

BANFIELD: Yes.

GRIFFIN: But then, I got a message on Facebook Messenger from -- I got a message from -- on Facebook Messenger from someone that said she know her

and she -- and her violent past and gave me her phone number but I`ve been on the phone with you guys and I`m definitely going to give that young lady

a call.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: So, we want to be really careful that, you know, that no one has been charged in this. We don`t want to name minors --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: We don`t want to name, you know, people who haven`t been charged.

GRIFFIN: OK.

BANFIELD: Hold on -- hold on one second, if you can, Tiffany. I want to bring in Ashley Wilcott, Certified Child Welfare Law Specialist and also

trial attorney and Juvenile Court Judge. What a perfect voice on this. Tell me and everyone else watching horrified at Jessie`s injuries, what can

we do for ourselves when it comes to picking a day care? And there are lots of little things that you might not think of that can make them way

more safe. Tell me your favorite top tips.

ASHLEY WILCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: Sure. My favorite top tips -- first of all, don`t assume because a day care facility is

licensed that it`s good or appropriate (INAUDIBLE 52:17). Check online and look at inspection reports so that you can look at them and say have they

ever failed an inspection, if so, why? Was it remedied or not to see whether or not it`s dangerous for children to be there.

Second, what you also need to do is look online at reviews. Go when parents are taking kids and picking kids up and talk to them and say, hey,

by the way, is this something that you like this day care, how do you feel about it, how do they treat your children? Ask if it can be video

monitored. A lot of the home care that people pick for the right reasons, which is a small home environment for your child which can be favorable, a

lot may of this may not do video monitoring but ask. Ask them if they ever have any citations, have they ever have inspections that they`ve had to

remedy. And lastly, and this mother did it and gave two weeks` notice, and I`m so, so sorry, my heart goes out to her and this little baby, but trust

your gut. If there is any reason that you feel like something is amiss, this isn`t the best place, trust your gut.

BANFIELD: Yes.

WILCOTT: In this particular case, they had had inspection violations in the past at this particular day care.

BANFIELD: I say cameras, cameras, cameras, and live cameras that you can look in on. Ashley, thank you. My goodness, three Ashleys on this program

today. Ashley, thank you for those tips. They are invaluable.

WILCOTT: Thank you.

BANFIELD: My thanks to Tiffany as well, Tiffany Griffin, and our best to little Jessie Harris as he recovers.

You know, we are used to seeing police officers in rescue mode day in and day out, but we are not used to seeing them like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just because we`re in the big city, don`t mean we don`t have small-time problems. There`s literally a chicken in

(INAUDIBLE 53:50) Portland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELDL: So, the question is, why did the chicken cross that road? There is an answer, trust me, there really is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is literally a chicken in (INAUDIBLE) Portland.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight and this actually could have been a first for a police officer in Oklahoma City.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, just because we`re in the big city don`t mean we don`t have small-time problems. There is literally a chicken in temple,

Portland and he`s crossing the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, so the question you would want answered, why? Why would that chicken, said chicken, crossed the road? All we can tell you is that

she decided to use the crosswalk to do so. We assume it is to get to the other side but when we tried to find out where she was headed, she flew the

coop. Get it? Case is fried. Although, some people still think it has wings. OK. That`s it, huh? I get nothing. I get nothing. I get

nothing.

See you back here tomorrow night. I will have better jokes starting at 6:00 Eastern. Thanks for watching. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END