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CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Fatal Obsession, Chilling Details On A Former Football Player Charged With Murder Of His Ex-Girlfriend. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired May 7, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[18:00:00]

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice." Tonight, a devastating

new detail in the death of a high school cheerleader, who is shot through her bedroom wall as she slept. Police say her ex-boyfriend fired not one,

but two bullets from two different angles. Like, he insists, he just wanted to scare her. Jesse Weber is tracking the case? What did you find

out, Jesse?

JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW AND CRIME NETWORKS: That is right, Ashleigh. Apparently, he just wanted a little attention after their breakup. Well,

the spotlight is on him now, especially with his roommate testifying that Riley asked this roommate to cover for him after the shooting. We`ve got

the latest from court.

BANFIELD: Wow, two different angles, a little hard to say it was only supposed to be a scare. Thank you, Jesse.

Also tonight she admitted to stealing a newborn baby from the mom`s hospital bed, and 20 years later, she is finally being held accountable.

Michael Christian is covering this emotional trial, and the mother/daughter reunion of sorts, but not quite. What`s happening, Michael?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: Ashleigh, Kamiyah Mobley, its mother says that this woman should get the death penalty for what she

did to their family. We will tell you about the torment she said has been going through ever since her baby was stolen. And how the mother and her

now 19-year-old daughter are still struggling to reconnect.

BANFIELD: It was such a tortured relationship, imagine that. I will get back in a bit, Michael, thank you for that.

Also, later in the program, the k-9 in training with a knack for the attack, even terrifying the cameraman behind these pictures. That dog

coming flying through a window, coming to a window near you if you`re a bad guy. We are going to explain what that was and where that dog is now.

First, though, I want to take you to Tennessee.

A traumatic breakup that went from dead -- or dramatic to deadly and then to court. Where trial is coming to a close. William Riley Gaul, is the

former college football player accused of stalking, threatening and then killing his 16-year-old ex-girlfriend, just two weeks after she ended

things with him. And killing her by shooting her dead right through her bedroom wall as she slept.

The bullets were reportedly so squared up with her bed, her pillow, in fact, the forensic pathologist on the scene said the person holding the gun

had to have, quote, an intimate knowledge of that bedroom.

And tonight, we`re learning two bullets weren`t just fired in Emma Walker`s general direction, they were fired from two different angles, from the wall

to the side of her bed, and from the wall behind her headboard. Yet Riley`s attorneys insist he never meant any actual harm, that he just

wanted to give her a good scare, a scare that might just drive her right back into his loving arms, just like that fake kidnapping from two nights

earlier.

The plan was to come to her rescue and win her back. But it is really, really hard to win back a dead girl. And it just might be harder for Riley

to rely on the, I didn`t mean for her to die defense with his own friends testifying against him. Saying he was unstable, suicidal, and according to

his roommate, he was asking for a shady kind of support the night of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did Riley Gaul request you to do in that snap chat?

ANDREW STANLEY, RILEY GAUL`S ROOMMATE: To not talk to the police. At 4:45 Riley came in and it woke me up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Followed by a quick conversation.

STANLEY: I just asked him, what he`s been up to. He said he`d been out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He said he`d been out. Well, wherever he was, it was his last night out for a very long time, because Riley was arrested the very same

day that Emma`s parents found her dead in her bed. And it was right after this -- his grandfather`s gun went missing.

And Riley won`t be trying to defend himself in court either, surprisingly both sides rested their cases today. Riley is not going up on that stand.

But we do know what his side of the story is. At least what it sounds like, because we have the initial interrogation tapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RILEY GAUL, DEFENDANT: I hope to God that I`m not a suspect in her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you say you were?

GAUL: I hope you don`t think -- because I wouldn`t hurt that girl for -- I would hurt myself before I would hurt her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would take your grandfather`s gun and take it to that house and shoot that house?

Did you shoot at Emma`s house?

GAUL: No, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me tonight, Jesse Weber, host of Law and Crime Network, he has been following this case, psychologist, Greg Cason. Also Defense

Attorney, Kenya Johnson and on the phone Knoxville News Sentinel, crime and legal journalist, Jamie Satterfield, who`s also been in the courtroom

watching a lot of this testimony unfold.

First to you, Jesse Weber, I am floored by this detail, because up until last week I thought this is plausible, this love sick boy could have tried

to scare her by trying to fire a few slugs into a wall. Until I found out they were aimed directly at her pillow.

[18:05:07] WEBER: This is a boy that was dating this girl for two years. He knew exactly where her bed was, he knew exactly how to get over the

fence. In fact he kept saying he mentioned her and know how to get over the fence.

BANFIELD: But didn`t he also used to go into her bedroom secretly, because her parents didn`t want him seeing her, and so he had no sneak into her

bedroom to see her, so he knew exactly what the layout of that bedroom was?

WEBER: I mean, he is a nightmare boyfriend. And let us not forget, so we are saying two shots, one parallel to the side of the bed, and one parallel

to the head board. If you`re really, if you are the defense and going to say, that he didn`t want to harm her, and why didn`t you fired into the

air? Why didn`t you fired into the ground? You are going to fire two shots directly there? You don`t know what`s going to happen. There is

only so much a jury will be able to take. And I think for the defense they`re starting to realize that when this evidence came forward, about

these two shots, and we can`t forget Ashleigh, one of those hit her directly in the head killing her immediately.

BANFIELD: And the second one, but for the deflection of hitting what the - -

WEBER: It was a wall.

BANFIELD: -- the headboard or some kind of post, right?

WEBER: Right. In the wall, we don`t know the exact trajectory, but it stopped it. But he is saying --

BANFIELD: Support post in the wall. So, as it was going to the wall it deflected in to a different direction and did not hit her.

WEBER: It did not hit her, only one shot hit her. Now defense will say, Riley didn`t know the bullets would go through the wall and why were you

four to five feet away from her window when you fired it? Why were you so close? And again, why fire in that direction? He will answer.

BANFIELD: So, hang on. Take the average size woman out there, and if you put your arms out side to side, if you can just get a wide shot of Jesse

and me on the set. I don`t know if we can do this. Think about this. I`m 5`6". So fingertip to fingertip, if you can get me all, I don`t even know

if we can widen out. That is about how far away, actually a little closer than 5`6". He could have touched from this -- this is how faraway he was

from her bedroom wall standing in the dark yard outside, and firing this close.

WEBER: What was he afraid she wouldn`t hear the gunshots I mean, he had to get so close? Again, I don`t understand how the defense can put over this

theory.

BANFIELD: Well, I don`t either. And you know what? I will tell you what, in about 45 - 50 minutes from now. Because of this, because of your

reporting today and Jesse and Jamie`s as well, we`ve got a forensic expert in firearms, who can tell us a little bit about the notion of firing that

close to a wall, and the plausibility that you wouldn`t know your bullet would go through the wall.

How plausible? Do we have any -- Jamie, do you have a feel for the jury on this one? Did you get a -- did you get a bunch of eye rolls when this

notion of, I never aimed for there, you know, I didn`t think it would go through the wall, I just wanted to scar her? Are they buying this, are

they poker face, what did they look like?

JAMIE SATTERFIELD, CRIME JOURNALIST, KNOXVILLE NEWS SENTINEL: Well, I think in the beginning when we had opening statements and the defense first

laid that out, that theory, that he was just trying to scare her, I think they were receptive to it. But I`ve watched them as the trial has gone

along, they seem to be getting a little hard toward it. The evidence, particularly of cover-up after the fact, has been pretty damning, and you

can see it on the jurors` faces. They`re also very -- they were very moved by Emma Walker`s brother. I noticed a couple of the women particularly

were smiling at him as he went back after testifying and sat down with his mother and father.

BANFIELD: And some of the women on the jury smiling at him?

SATTERFIELD: Yes. Yes.

BANFIELD: Oh, wow.

SATTERFIELD: At Emma`s brother. They`re not making eye contact with Riley.

BANFIELD: Yes that is not good for a defendant. And you know, I love that you brought that up, Jamie. The cover-up. Everything that Riley did,

absolutely, when you walk into a courtroom and you`re presented with a case that, you know, theoretically you might not know a whole lot about and you

start to hear it soup to nuts, the story begins to change. And I want to play something that this jury heard about Riley`s capacity to lie, it

reminded me of Casey Anthony. And I`ll say that, because when you`re caught by the police, and the walls are closing in, a lot of people finally

fess up and say I can`t tell a lie. I have to be honest. I never meant to killer. But I was there.

Nope, no, no, not Riley Gaul. Here are the police in the interrogation tape, asking Riley about that whole weird conversation he had with his

roommate about getting rid of fingerprints off of a gun. Do you think he`d cop to it by that point? No. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how do you have a conversation when you come in at 12:15 about how to get fingerprints off a gun?

GAUL: He was like, hey, I have this rifle or whatever, I was just wondering (inaudible) I was just wondering. But that`s the gist of it. he

was like, do you know how to get smudges and stuff off the barrel, the handle, the butt , all that. I was like what do you mean smudges? And he

was like your fingerprints and all that.

And I was like, and when I called Noah, I told Noah, on the phone and asked him that question and he was like that`s really sketchy question to ask and

I was like, I know but you were the first person on the phone so I figured I would just ask you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:10:13] BANFIELD: OK. So this would be a great point to bring up with Greg Cason. As a psychologist, look, we`re not guaranteed that the 12 men

and women of the jury have the kind of knowledge that you have about when someone tells lies and what`s really in their heart. How do you know that

this is a guy who`s willing to lie about anything, or how do you know that this is a desperate teenager who didn`t mean to kill someone and is just

trying to make sure that he doesn`t get wrongly convicted?

GREG CASON, PSYCHOLIGIST: Extremely difficult. You know, that is actually one of the more difficult things is to be able to tell when someone is

lying. Only someone who truly has feelings in their heart can actually be able to convey that they`re lying in a much easier way. But the problem is

we may be dealing with someone who`s sociopathic. And someone who`s sociopathic can lie without any sort of give or any sort of indication.

That can even pass a lie detector test, because they don`t have any kind of physiological changes that are detectable or readily detectable, when they

are lying. So, if in fact we are dealing with someone who`s sociopathic, then we are probably running up a dead street.

BANFIELD: So, I`m going to ask you to do a little of your work, sort of live on TV. And I know that is really difficult, especially since the

image that we`re looking at in the interrogation tape is not really clear. It`s hard to see his face. He is sort of in a dark corner there. The

audio is even muffled. And we have to put text up on screen. But I think this is key.

He is asked about the mysterious man in black, shortly before the killing, a man in black had appeared in the yard, knocking on the front door of

Emma`s home. The theory here is that, again, he might be trying to scare her right back into his arms, but he was not copping to that, not then, not

now, he had never copped to the fact that he might be the man in black. But here he is being asked about the man in black. OK? And what`s

critical here, Greg, is to listen to the words he uses to describe now dead Emma. He calls her the girl, and he also says the one who passed away. So

I want you to look at it and listen to it and give me your thoughts on the other side. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAUL: The girl, she texted me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which girl?

GAUL: The one that passed away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is her name?

GAUL: Emma. She texted me and she was kind a -- acting frantic over the phone, and she said that someone was trying to get into her house.

Somebody who was dressed in all black. She was crying and freaking out and so I said, OK, I`ll come down and check it out.

I got there, went to her backyard to make sure nobody was out there, checking under the porch and everything -- looked up and down the street.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Greg, the girl, the one who passed away. Can I read anything into that, or is that a young man who is in an interrogation who`s scared

and doesn`t know that this officer knows anything about their relationship?

CASON: No, I think you picked up on something very key, Ashleigh, that when we start to refer to people in more of an objective way, we saw O.J.

Simpson doing this with Nicole Simpson Brown right after the murders. So we`re seeing now him doing this regarding her. And one thing I`ve done,

one thing I have the benefit of doing is I used to interview people, post murder and post sexual assault, and post domestic violence.

In the police stations, just like you`re seeing now. I used to do that for psychological purposes. And one thing that I did find, where I found

absolutely fascinating, people could be sitting there covered in blood, and they would be talking about the incident as if it were just something they

saw on TV, wasn`t a big deal. Or if they weren`t copping to the incident, they were just referring to something in very vague ways. They see it more

as an object. They don`t see themselves as a player who`s actually done something. They see this more as a game or something they`ve seen on TV.

BANFIELD: But I also wonder if they`re shell shocked, and that can come off as being, you know, as just, you know, stone cold and hardened. I

always wonder if we look different depending on how we react.

CASON: Yes, yes, that is true. We can never say that. You know, when someone has an immediate trauma, sometimes they do go into that shock

phase.

BANFIELD: The indifference, you know, the indifference can be shock.

CASON: But you don`t seem to see the person -- he looked relaxed to me. Maybe he wasn`t, but he looked a little bit relaxed. And that is always

concerned me.

BANFIELD: I`ve learned -- let me tell you, Gregg, I have learned in this business of covering thousands of trial never to assume that I can

understand how someone grieves or how someone reacts to shock.

CASON: I agree.

[18:15:00] BANFIELD: Or how they, you know it`s one of those things. Listen, I do have this other question, I`m going to ask all three of you,

and I`m also going to get Jamie to weigh in on this as well. He didn`t take the stand, he did not stand up for himself. He did not answer to all

these gaping questions that I`m sure those juniors have, if the rest of us watching have them as well. Why wouldn`t you, if you were innocent, get up

there and say so? And is it really always on the advice of your attorney? That is coming up right after this.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the terrifying night in Tennessee where a teenager was shot dead as she slept. And the ex-boyfriend is now

on trial for her murder. These were better days. Look at the two of them, all American, a picture you never thought could go so wrong. But that

young man`s lawyers say, he only meant to scare Emma.

Tonight, however, Emma`s dead and new details about the bullets that came flying to her bedroom wall from two different angles outside, make it

really, really hard to believe that was any accident. My panel is still with me.

And Jamie, I want to ask you a little bit about the decision here to avoid taking the stand. And you were in the courtroom when that happened. Did

it feel as strange as it feels out here, or did it seem like that was the direction this trial was taking all along, that that young man would stay

in that chair looking straight ahead and would never turn around and face that courtroom?

SATTERFIELD: Well, I don`t think that anyone who`s covered the case expected him to testify. You know, that flat affect that you see in the

interrogation and also there was his friends, you know, did an undercover video of him as well talking about asking them to lie, and whatnot. So his

demeanor is exactly the same in the courtroom. He occasionally will sort of shield his face. But you don`t see tears. You don`t -- so, I didn`t

expect that it would be wise for the defense to put him up. So I wasn`t surprised by it. Certainly, a jury, I think -- juries always want to hear

from a defendant.

BANFIELD: Always.

SATTERFIELD: Especially when you`re asking them to buy your account of something. So it hurt, but I think it would have hurt worse if you put him

on the stand and he can --

BANFIELD: Well, it`s hard when you`re a proven liar, right? It`s hard when you`re proven to be a liar --

SATTERFIELD: Right.

BANFIELD: -- all those moments in the interrogation room when he carried on his with his lies, Casey Anthony style and oh, low and behold, he shows

up in court and opens up with OK, I did it, but didn`t mean to hurt her. Can you Johnson, I get it, juries want to hear from a defendant and it is

about the worst thing you can ever do, let your defendant up there on the stand? Why all this? Did most of the time. Is that going to matter here,

because if it is going to matter, they didn`t even put a single witness on this, they didn`t present a case at all? Is that going to matter?

KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, this case is fraught with so many inconsistencies and lies that if he did take the stand a good prosecutor

would tear him apart and the jury would see the holes in his theory. However, if he remains silent, then, for a case like this, it`s always best

to focus on the prosecution not proving their case versus how innocent that their client actually is.

But there`s also another defense strategy at play. He actually pled guilty to the reckless conduct of shooting at the house in hopes that by admitting

some portion of the crime, he could escape the intentional act of trying to murder her, the more serious charges. And so the question is going to be

whether the jury will hear to what he has admitted to, and find some sort of -- some sort of way to mitigate his actions in the murder.

BANFIELD: Yes, that whole messy cleanup, it is never good. Jesse, it is never good when you lie. It is never good when you lie on take in front of

a jury, because when they played those sound bites, in fact, I want to play another one. Because this one is about that whole kidnapping route. So it

is bad enough that this young man would fake a kidnapping of himself, first pretending to be the kidnapper, texting poor Emma saying, I`m going to kill

someone you love, and then pretending to be the kidnapping victim who had been hit in the head lying outside of the party where Emma was with all of

her friends. Then you get him into the interrogation room and start asking him about it. And here`s what he had to say and how he said it. Take a

look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAUL: These two guys are like walking across the street, I was -- didn`t think anything of it, because they were like in a rush. And I turned

around about to get in my car and one of them grabs my back, the other one`s around the corner. And they just like put their hands over my face

and just took me to their van or whatever.

They were like, who do you want to talk to for the last time? And so I said (inaudible) and I said Emma. And they made me call Emma, and she

didn`t answer my phone multiple times, so they used their phone and I was crying and screaming. She thought it was a joke, she thought I was playing

a prank on her. I woke up and I woke up where Emma was. I stood up and my head was pounding, I just started walking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, yes, that is not good. Actually, it`s kind of maddening, if you think about Emma`s parents sitting in a courtroom watching that, and

knowing that he came to court and fessed up to so much of this saying, it was just an act, I just wanted to scare her into my arms. Well, she is

dead. So that can`t happen. So now we are just left with your defense.

[18:25:15] If you feel the same way I do, if you`re watching this, and you feel the same way I do, or if you feel differently, maybe more importantly,

if you feel differently, get on Twitter. I`ve got a hashtag going, justice with Ash. Jump on #justicewithash and sound off. Because I feel like I

need to hear someone else on this. Tomorrow, Jesse, is closings. So you better be a damn good lawyer, almost Broadway quality, if you`re going to

get up before those 12 people and insist to them, dear love sick Riley, just wanted to scare the love of his life into his arms, by aiming directly

at her pillow from two different angles on two sides of the house, right like within arm`s reach, almost, of those walls. And they want -- they

want the jury to believe he didn`t mean for those bullets to go through the wall.

WEBER: Ashleigh, we talk about reasonable doubt. That is the job of the defense attorney. But what is reasonable doubt in this case? Can the

defense really say that what he did was reasonable? Does it show there`s doubt as to his motives and to his intentions? If he lied to his family,

his friends, investigators, why should anyone believe anything he has to say, let alone the story that is being put forward by his defense attorney?

BANFIELD: Tell you what, last week, you and Rachel Stockman sat in these chairs and you explained this case to me. And I went away for the weekend

really thinking, I think this guy is love sick. I think he did want to scare his ex-girlfriend. He was so devastated by losing her that he wanted

to scare her into his arms. Then this week I heard that he aimed right for her head, that he was four to five feet away from the wall when he fired a

gun twice, not one accidental bullet, not I don`t know how this thing kicks, and it misfired, misaimed, I didn`t mean to aim there, I meant to

aim somewhere else, no, both of those bullets were aimed directly where her pillow would be and he knew her bedroom layout, he knew where she`d be

sleeping, he knew all of it.

So, I feel very differently. And I just wondered how our audience would feel about this too. I wondered if all of you have been, you know, yo-yoed

by this case, or if you`re pretty much hard set the way you feel this should play out. #justicewithash, just check it out, I want to hear what

you say. My thank you to my guests. Jesse Weber, Jamie Satterfield, Gregg Cason and Kenya Johnson, like I said, coming up in a little over half an

hour, we are going to talk to the forensic ballistics expert to tell us about those firings and how difficult it would be to misfire or misaim.

Also I have an update for you tonight, we are learning more about how Stephen Houk, that registered sex offender dad, who lead the L.A. police on

this low speed chase in his R.V. How he was able to hide from the police for two days after ditching out of that R.V., leaving his two small

children and the family dog inside, and bolting from a dusty almond orchard last week. The police say that he did this. He hid under the trees. And

just like camped out there for a while before running for it. And he ran for three hours straight, about 15 miles or so, maybe more, towards

Bakersfield.

Once he got to Bakersfield, he ended going to a local library. Because that is where you can maybe grab a nap without anybody suspecting anything.

And when he was done with his nap he went to a homeless shelter where he got a nice meal and probably the razor he used to shave that gnarly beard

off that we all spotted him. See it, see it, in that shadow shot as he was outrunning the cops? Clean shaven. He went from looking like that guy to

this guy when they arrested him.

Nice and clean shaven, nice little fugitive. The investigators say, well, he was in the homeless shelter, he got a lead on an escape route, and then

hopped a train, yes, a cargo train, headed for Miami. That is where the cops caught up with him, in fact, in the cargo train. He didn`t get to

Miami though. They caught him in a Barstow rail yard, I think about 100 miles or so away. He is facing kidnapping and assault, and he is held on a

million dollars bail, why you say a bail so high? Because I think we know this guy likes to run.

Justice delayed. The mother of an infant snatched from her hospital bed right after the baby was born, almost 20 years ago, finally has her day in

court and confronts that woman who stole her baby daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Any sentence that the Judge gives Ms. Williams a change the 18 years and still going (inaudible) --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only -- I don`t think she is old enough for that. I would say death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: You heard right. I would say death. Death penalty. Well that is not an option. But boy, has the reunion for Kamiyah Mobley, this young

woman and that birth mom, has that ever been rocky. The teenager is at the center of the case. That teenager`s asking for leniency from her

kidnapper. Just imagine the emotional dynamic of -

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: -- reunion for Kamiyah Mobley, this young woman, and the birth mom, has that

ever been rocky. The teenager is at the center of the case. That teenager is asking for leniency from her kidnapper. Just imagine the emotional

dynamics at play here. The story is next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Hell has no fury like a woman scorned. But how about a mother scorned? How about a mother whose newborn baby girl was stolen from her by

a woman dressed in scrubs at the hospital just eight hours after that baby girl was born? A mother whose child spent the last 19 years calling a

stranger "mommy." And who still calls that stranger "mommy" today.

That mother is Shanara Mobley trying to reconnect with her now adult daughter after nearly two decades of living without her, while taking her

kidnapper to court, a kidnapper who couldn`t give her, quote, daughter, a birth certificate when she started to apply for jobs.

And a kidnapper who seems dreadfully sorry for sneaking that little baby girl out of the hospital in a bag, all those years ago. At least she seemed

sorry now that she`s been found out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA WILLIAMS, KIDNAPPED BABY GIRL FROM HOSPITAL: I know you hate me right now. And I know you`ve heard what people said about me. But I done

something wrong, and this is probably the only thing I`ve ever done wrong. And I hope one day, I hope one day that that you can find it in your heart

to forgive me for what I`ve done to you all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Gloria Williams faces 22 years behind bars for taking and raising that baby as her own. But this woman, Shanara Mobley, wants

something worse. Because for Shanara Mobley, this apology is coming about two decades too late.

If you were separated from your child, just think about this, for 18 years, and you finally found the abductor, what would you want to happen to that

abductor? What would you want that kidnapper to suffer? That mom was able to weigh in on that very question. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can any sentence that the judge gives Ms. Williams change the 18 years and still go one year today acting --

SHANARA MOBLEY, BIOLOGICAL MOTHER OF KAMIYAH MOBLEY: It`s only one sentence, and I don`t think she`s old enough for that. I would say death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think many of us watching can understand the emotions that Shanara Mobley was feeling when she said that on the stand. I would say

death. Because honestly for Shanara Mobley, the last 18 years have felt like a death. She never got that child. To her that child was almost like

being dead.

I want to bring in Craig Aiken. Craig Aiken is Kamiyah Mobley`s father. He joins me live now from Jacksonville. Sir, thank you so much for being on

with me tonight. I cannot imagine what is in your heart.

I cannot imagine how you are coping with what happened in this courtroom. Watching Gloria Williams from the stand apologizing to you for stealing

your baby. I wanted to know if you believed her, if you believed her apology.

CRAIG AIKEN, BIOLOGICAL FATHER OF KAMIYAH MOBLEY: I heard her apology. You know, to me it wasn`t sincere. To me, her apology is more directed to

Kamiyah. Like I say, I feel it was too late for an apology. She could have been in this a long time ago.

BANFIELD: Too late. Too late but do you think -- Craig, do you think sincere? Did you look at Gloria Williams on the stand and believe that

she`s sorry? Or do you believe that Gloria is sorry that life as she knew it, as the mother of who she called Alexis, who you know as Kamiyah, do you

think she`s just sorry that`s all over?

AIKEN: I think she`s just sorry that she got caught, honestly. I just don`t -- I just don`t know what to feel about -- you know, I didn`t -- it

didn`t seem sincere, you know. It just seemed like she was pleading for her case, pleading for freedom or something like that. I don`t think it was

sincere. Honestly.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this, because there`s a dynamic that`s playing out that our viewers may not know. But we`re seeing pictures of you and

Kamiyah. You have rekindled your relationship with her. She visits you fairly regularly. She celebrates holidays with you. And with her new-found

siblings as well.

[18:40:02] This is a picture of Kamiyah with her real mom and her real dad when she was reunited with you.

But the the story has not been as joyous for Kamiyah`s real mom because as I understand it, Kamiyah has had a tough time bonding with her, right? I

understand that, right, Shanara, her real mom, is angry as hell at the kidnapper. But the kidnapper is Kamiyah`s mom, the only mom she`s ever

known. Can you help me sort through what`s going on there?

CRAIG: At first, you know, Kamiyah was raised with a lady for 18 years. So you can`t help but bond with somebody that you`ve been around for that

long. But, you know, as she has been around us and met us and everything and she`s hearing some of the information that`s coming out about the

kidnapping, she`s putting together herself, you know.

I`m just giving her time to, you know, to process. Once she processed all the information, she`s smart enough to make her own decisions on what she

wants. But her and her mama have been -- Shanara have been building a relationship with each other lately, and it`s been a good relationship.

They`ve been spending more time together.

BANFIELD: It`s getting better, their relationship?

CRAIG: Their relationship is getting much better. They spend time with each other, out of town, in South Carolina and in Jacksonville. Every time

she comes to see me, she sees her mom and they go shopping together. It`s nothing like what people think. Like I said, it was just part of her

transition. She was just working it out. She is processing.

BANFIELD: God bless her. You know, I`ve got to say, Craig, as her real father, you have got to be so heartbroken over what she`s going through.

She`s having to process this.

She`s the one who`s torn between two people, one that she loves, the kidnapper, who she thinks is her mother, the only mother she`s ever known,

and the other who is an incredible victim in this crime as well, and that`s her birth mother, Shanara.

Can I ask you, when Shanara was on the stand, rightfully angry about the woman who kidnapped her baby and stole 20 years from her and said the death

penalty would be appropriate, how did young Kamiyah process that?

She`s sitting in court looking at the woman, you know, who`s the suspect here, the defendant. Who is her mom. How was that for Kamiyah?

CRAIG: One thing about Kamiyah. Kamiyah is strong. Kamiyah could be the poster child for kidnapped kids. We have this thing with each other. We can

say what we want to say. All of us have our different opinions in the situation, all three of us.

But we can come together and talk about the situation and we`ll be able to say what we want to say. It will not affect what we feel for each other.

It`s what we feel about this lady. We don`t let that affect our relationship with each other.

BANFIELD: You know, I got to say, Craig, Gloria made some excuses on the stand. She said at the time she stole your daughter and stole Shanara`s

daughter, she was in a bad place. She`d been abused.

She went, she said, to the hospital to look at babies because she had a miscarriage and that she doesn`t know what came over her and she took that

baby. Do you believe any of that?

CRAIG: No, I don`t. You`ve got plenty of people going through a lot of things. She kidnapped my baby, and I didn`t go kidnap anybody else`s child.

There are places she could have got help. I`m not saying that she should have been bad (ph). I don`t know that she went through all that. I just

don`t think that was the answer (ph).

BANFIELD: So I can`t thank you enough for sharing this with us. I hope that you and Shanara are able to become, you know, a modern family. I know

you have a wife and I know that Kamiyah spends a lot of time with you and your wife, her stepmother, right?

I know Kamiyah has changed her name to Kamiyah. That`s weird to day. She was Alexis, right? The fake name she was given was Alexis, and she`s

changed her name to Kamiyah. But I wish you and your daughter and the mom of your daughter, I wish you all the best in repairing a relationship

that`s had 18 years of damage done to it. God bless you.

CRAIG: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And coming up in a moment, let`s talk a little bit about this woman, Gloria Williams. She is facing 22 years in prison. She has already

spent a year and a half behind bars waiting for this moment. There`s Kamiyah sitting in court, looking at the woman she thinks is her mom. She

doesn`t want her to go away for 22 years. Should we? That`s next.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the woman who is saying sorry just a little too late, nearly 20 years too late after dressing up like a nurse

and stealing this newborn baby right out of her mother`s arms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So many days I just wanted to pick that child up and say come on let`s get in this car and go. I just couldn`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:49:59] BANFIELD: Well, now 52-year-old Gloria Williams is facing 22 years behind bars for that, for taking and raising a baby that didn`t

belong to her. That baby is this young woman, now 19-year-old Kamiyah Mobley, who lost a parent once and may be about to lose another.

I want to bring in Jenese Harris, anchor and reporter for CNN affiliate WJXT, psychologist Greg Cason, and defense attorney Kenya Johnson.

Jenese, in court, I`m told Kamiyah Mobley chose a very significant place to sit. Can you describe that for me?

JENESE HARRIS, REPORTER AND ANCHOR, CNN AFFILIATE WJXT: Ashleigh, yes, she did. And we were wondering where was she going to sit. Was she going to sit

on the right side with Gloria Williams` family or was she going to sit on the left side with her biological family?

Instead, she sat at the back with her attorney, rows away from either family. We`ve been told that that was deliberate because she loves both

families. She doesn`t want conflict with either family, but in this, she wanted to be neutral in that courtroom and sat in the back away from

everyone.

BANFIELD: You know, Jenese, we just talked to her biological father, Craig Aiken, who said she`s a strong young woman. I`ve interviewed Kamiyah. I was

astounded, at the time she was 18, she is now 19, at the strength of this child who was more of an adult than most people I`ve met.

How is she handling the emotions in this court? Seeing her, you know, fake mom, the kidnapper, apologizing like this and seeing her real mother asking

for the death penalty. How is she processing this in court?

HARRIS: It`s very difficult to see how she was processing it or to speak for her or behalf of her. But I can say from observation, you could see she

was emotionally engaged when Gloria Williams was on the stand, the woman who kidnapped her that she calls mom, and also her biological mother.

There was one moment when Shanara Mobley sat on that stand and she said, I am her mother. Kamiyah, I am your mother. And there was no way that you

could doubt everyone, including her, including Kamiyah --

BANFIELD: Sure.

HARRIS: -- felt that emotion in the courtroom.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Greg, I want you to jump in as a psychologist and tell me how Shanara Mobley is supposed to walk this tight rope, going up on that

stand. Honestly, I can imagine her wanting the death penalty for this kidnapper who stole her baby and her life. But at the same time, you know,

hoping to forge a relationship with this 19-year-old little stranger who she desperately wants to be her daughter. How is she supposed to do this?

GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah, I think you asked the most difficult question. I think she`s the true, true victim in so many ways. Because she

had this woman, her young baby taken away from her. And yet now she`s supposed to jump into a psychological complacency and be able to just be

there for her child.

You know, I`m very impressed with her father, that he can just allow Kamiyah to be who she is and forge the relationship that he has with her.

BANFIELD: Yeah, no kidding.

CASON: That`s extremely emotionally mature. But the issue, I think it`s going to take a while and it sounds like she`s taking it one step at a

time, which is what she needs to take.

BANFIELD: So, Kenya Johnson, I only got a couple of seconds left, but she could face 22 years for this or she could get time served which is about a

year and a half. What do you think is going to happen here?

KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What`s the right punishment? This isn`t like a murder or an armed robbery where the event happens and it ends. This

was a choice that she made every single day that she woke up to conceal this kidnapping.

We`re at the sentencing phase and at least while she`s in custody, Kamiyah gets the opportunity to bond with her family without interference.

BANFIELD: We`ll see what happens. Jenese Harris, Greg Cason, and Kenya Johnson, thank you for that. Kenya, stick around.

I want to show you something. You probably don`t ever want to see in real life, a K-9 on the attack, airborne, sailing through a window. What do you

think is going on here? How scared was that cameraman? That`s next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. We know that K-9s are fierce. But did you know they could fly?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attaboy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, he`s the best, I love that dog. Check out Echo, the K-9. Check out his form. His legs literally don`t even touch the window sill as

he comes sailing through. You know, that trainer is pretty relieved to have all that padding because Echo has no intention of letting him go.

And yes, the cameraman was surprised and a little scared, like a lot of scared when Echo made that dramatic entrance. This is the Hillsborough

County Sheriff`s Office doing training, just so you know. That was just training. The bad guy is a good guy. And Echo is bad ass.

[19:00:00] BANFIELD: Oh, he`s a winner. Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): I would hurt myself before I would hurt her.

BANFIELD (voice-over): He says he just wanted to scare his ex while she was sleeping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be upset but I can`t because I`m worried being arrested and put away for a murder that I didn`t commit.

BANFIELD: But both the bullets he fired through her bedroom walls were aimed straight for the head of her bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We located a projectile inside the pillow.

BANFIELD: Do those facts add up for this former college football player accused of killing a high school cheerleader.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She made the world a better place.

BANFIELD: And just what did he tell his friends when he drove home after she died?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Riley Gaul request you to do in that snap chat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not talk to the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trusting you guys with my life because this is 70 years.

BANFIELD: She was stolen from her parents, just hours after being born.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was real happy because I was had been through so much in my life.

BANFIELD: And she only learned the truth after 18 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You couldn`t take that she was in cuffs.

BANFIELD: Now the woman who stole her and raised her has to answer for her crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I never in my life, never in my life meant to hurt you.

BANFIELD: Two decades after dressing as a nurse, and sneaking off with that newborn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is probably the only thing I have ever done wrong.

BANFIELD: But what`s the proper punishment, for stealing a child?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know I can`t give you back the 18 years.

BANFIELD: The real mom certainly has some ideas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say death. I mean, her away, far away where she cannot contact my baby.

BANFIELD: And how a sex offender spent his time as a wanted man on the run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got some rest. He got some food.

BANFIELD: Dozens of cops on his tail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea how he managed to get away.

BANFIELD: For kidnapping his two kids in a motor home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should be considered armed and dangerous.

BANFIELD: How he found ways to nap, eat, even shave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He found a nearby homeless shelter, jumped in a train.

BANFIELD: Without being spotted for two days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

It`s often said that seconds matter. But it`s known that firsts matter too. Like the first and the second time a bullet was fired the wall of a

suburban Tennessee home the night of November the 21st, because there was a girl sleeping behind that wall. This beautiful high school cheerleader,

and her name was Emma.

She was seemingly the target of two bullets. And tonight we know where those bullets came from. The first one came through her bedroom wall at

the side of her bed. And the second one came through her bedroom wall from a totally different angle, from the wall behind her headboard. And while

the person accused of holding the gun has been saying, oh, that shooting? That was an accident.

Well, that person is Emma Walker`s ex-boyfriend, a football player who`d gone off to college and was not OK with the breakup, even faking his own

kidnapping to try to win Emma`s sympathy. It didn`t work.

Two nights later Emma was dead. And William Riley Gaul`s defense has been that he only meant to scare that beautiful young cheerleader, not kill her.

But now he is on trial for killing her, for murder, in fact. And tonight, both sides have decided they are resting their cases, and Riley has decided

he will not get up on that stand and explain himself, explain how he could have accidentally shot Emma, his ex-girlfriend, twice.

So instead we are just left with the testimony of his friends, like the roommate who talked to him that very night it happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did Riley Gaul request you to do in that snap chat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To not talk to the police. At 4:45, Riley came in and woke me up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Followed by a quick conversation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just asked him, hey, what you been up to? He said he`s been out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He had been out. He had been out. That would be Riley last night out. Last night for a really long time because he was arrested the

very next day. And this is what he had to say to the police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RILEY GAUL, SUSPECT IN KILLING EMMA WALKER: I hope to god I`m not the suspect in her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did I say you were?

GAUL: I hope you don`t think because I would hurt that girl for I would hurt myself before I would hurt her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would take your grandfather`s gun and take it to that house and shoot that house? Did you shoot at Emma`s house?

GAUL: No, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, no, you did, you absolutely do did. I mean, you know, how I can say that before we get a verdict in your trial? It is because you

said so. You opened your own trial, Riley, with your lawyer saying OK, he did it, he shot into the house, he didn`t mean to hurt her.

I don`t know how many people shoot a gun at someone`s bedroom wall, knowing they are in there, and shoot that gun right at the pillow. But only want

to hurt them.

I want to bring in two of law and crime network`s heavy hitters host, Jesse Weber and editor in-chief Rachel Stockman. They are following this trial

gavel to gavel. Also firearms expert Chris Robinson who can tell us a thing or two about the plausibility of that argument. And also defense

attorney Kenya Johnson is still with us, who can tell us a thing or two about how defenses work and how they don`t.

First to you, Jesse and Rachel, I have completely flipped how I feel about this case, from Thursday to today.

[19:05:58] RACHEL STOCKMAN, EDITOR IN-CHIEF, LAW & CRIME NETWORK: I have too. And the reason being is when you see that crime scene photo that you

showed, you can see how close her head was to the wall right there. And, I mean, anyone that`s been in her room, and Riley`s been in the room many

times, knows exactly where she sleeps. And so there`s no question, even in the dark, I think he would have known her head was right there.

BANFIELD: I had this feeling that this is a love sick puppy who was so desperate for Emma`s affection that he would fire recklessly, but not

lethally up the wall, way up into the ceiling part of the wall, to scare her into his arms. I thought that was plausible. I don`t think it`s

plausible that both of those firings went right from two different angles towards her pillow, a pillow he knew intimately because he had been

sneaking into her room for a long time.

JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW & CRIME NETWORK: Why did he fire it into the house? Why not fire it in the air? Why not fire into the ground? Why not fired

anywhere than right parallel to her bed was. I mean, these are the questions that --.

BANFIELD: Aiming right for her head.

WEBER: If the defense wants to put on this theory that he wanted to scare her, that it was all part of a series of bizarre events, the kidnapping,

walking around the neighborhood, where does this fit in? Because it doesn`t make sense. It doesn`t make sense that he is going to come to her

rescue when she is dead. That --.

STOCKMAN: So what other defense do they have? They have cell phone records, they have the friends turning him in, they have the fact that he

wanted to conceal the murder weapon and get rid of his fingerprints. I mean, the defense had to do something, I guess.

WEBER: And they could have tried, maybe, at least to say who saw him at there, who saw him at 3:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m. when this firing took place?

Maybe go that way, but they didn`t even go there. They said we know he fired in there, but he wasn`t intending to shoot her.

BANFIELD: And he is not going to testify. Did you expect him to testify, Rachel? Did you expect him to get up in the stand and explain himself?

STOCKMAN: I think -- OK, two things. I think he would be stupid to do so. However, if they are going to go with this defense, I think they probably

should have. Because they really need to explain how this wasn`t an intentional act.

BANFIELD: Did you see the picture where we were just running of the big red arrow pointing to this guy who is all dressed in black walking down the

street. This is such -- look at that. This is such a key part of this case. This is some phantom fellow, all dressed in black, well before the

killing, who apparently was seen in the neighborhood heading to Emma`s house, banging on her door, and the whole idea here, if you believe that

this is Riley, is that he was trying to scare her again into calling and saying, oh, my God, I need you, I`m scared.

And wouldn`t you know it, Emma called Riley and said, my God, I`m scared, I need you, and Riley was within, you know, a quick drive`s distance, and

there she was in his arms again, getting comfort from the scary man in black.

Riley was asked, in the interrogation room, about the man in black because Riley is not -- he`s copping to a lot of things, right. He is copping to

firing the gun, trying to scare her, not hurt her, but not copping to being the man in black. He is not copping now. And he is not copping during all

those lies to the interrogator either, have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GAUL: The girl, she texted me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which girl?

GAUL: The one that passed away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s her name?

GAUL: Emma. She texted me and she was kind acting frantic over the phone, and she said that someone was trying to get into her house. Somebody who

was dressed in all black. She was crying and freaking out and so I said OK, I will come down and check it out.

I got there, went to her backyard to make sure nobody was out there, checking under the porch and everything, looked up and down the street.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: OK, I`m having a little bit of trouble with this one. Because he is willing to lie so excruciatingly beautifully to these investigators

with everything else, but he is not willing to lie on this one.

What he did say is he called Emma the girl. He called Emma the girl. And he also said, the one who passed away which I find a little shocking.

Kenya Johnson, jump in here, if you will, as a defense attorney, are you cringing in the seat beside your client listening to him referring to the

young woman he loves and who he was trying to scare as the girl, the one who passed away to the interrogators?

[19:10:26] KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It sounds like he is trying to disassociate himself from the intense feelings of love that he obviously

had for her by calling her the girl. However, I think a jury can see through that. A big question is going to be whether we can prove, and the

jury can prove, that he intended to do this. It`s very much a circumstantial case.

However, by him not testifying the defense has to answer all the questions that the jury has and they haven`t done so. Why did he think that shooting

at her pillow would be a mistake? Or that it would miss her head? There`s so many unanswered questions, and juries just don`t seem to like unanswered

questions. Then they will make up their own answers and that usually doesn`t work for the defense.

BANFIELD: OK. So Chris Robinson, as a firearms expert, I have a lot of questions for you. And I`m going to get to the most important one, which

is the plausibility that an 18 or a 19-year-old guy would stand four feet away from the wall of a house knowing full well where the bed is on the

other side of the wall, where the pillow would be on the other side of the wall, and four feet away, pull the trigger, thinking all the while this

bullet won`t go through the wall. And then moving to another wall, and pulling the trigger again, in the exact direction of that pillow, thinking,

this bullet won`t go through the wall.

I want you to sit on that question for a minute. Because that, to me, needs some serious explanation. But I also want you to explain this. Is

there anything about firing a gun that would change your aim? For instance, a forensic technician looked at this particular gun and found

that the slide lock lever was installed incorrectly. Would that have meant that if you`re firing in one direction, the bullet would have gone in

another direction?

CHRIS ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT: No, ma`am. The slide stop lever is just what holds the slide to the rear. What he has done is he has taken the

slide stop lever off of the gun, and when he reinstalled it back on the gun, he reinstalled it improperly. It just would cause the slide not to

lock back. It wouldn`t change the direction of the bullets in any way.

BANFIELD: Why would that guy -- why would that be brought up?

Rachel and Jesse, is the defense attorney trying to suggest, well, the slide lock lever was installed incorrectly, Riley was aiming somewhere

else, but the bullet went to the pillow.

STOCKMAN: If they were really going down that route, why didn`t they present any experts? Why didn`t the defense have any experts testify on

their behalf for this theory?

BANFIELD: Because they are hoping that the jury is too dumb to know how guns work.

WEBER: Any doubt is doubt. So if they can try to say any doubt towards this. And look, they also can point to the fact, look, Riley Gaul, he is

not a firearms expert. He even asked people how to get fingerprints off of gun. He doesn`t know how to do this.

STOCKMAN: Here`s my one thing that leaves a few questions about this case. If Riley Gaul wanted to really kill her and lure her, why didn`t he set up

a face to face conflict? Because he has done that in the past in this whole kidnapping scenario we were just talking about. So if he really

wanted to kill her, why did he do it through the bedroom window? Why didn`t he lure her out and make sure he got a good shot? At 3:00 a.m.

BANFIELD: I don`t know.

STOCKMAN: That`s my only question in that case.

BANFIELD: Maybe it`s because he`d been through that bedroom window so many times, her parents didn`t like him, didn`t want him around so he had to

sneak into her bedroom in order to see her, all the time, knew exactly where that bed was laid out in that bedroom, knew exactly where the pillow

was, and hence knew exactly where her head would be on that pillow when he fired those two shots, admittedly fired the two shots, not in question

anymore, folks. This is not an issue of evidence. He has admitted to firing the two shots. It`s just about the intent. Did he intend to scare

her or killer? Did he intent to kill her?

And I love the fact that couple of people have weighed in on the hashtag on twitter, I asked you last hour, jump in on the justice with Ashleigh

hashtag and let me know what you think.

One of the folks on twitter said, who cares? Like a felony murder, even if you didn`t intend to do it, you did it. You did something illegal and the

death resulted. He is not charged necessarily with felony murder. But the underlying felony isn`t firing into a house, it is child abuse. So he

can`t get him on felony murder, can they?

WEBER: It`s kind of like felony murder. It is that same during the commission of child abuse, she died. It`s a loophole away for the

prosecution.

BANFIELD: Yes. But if the argument is the gunfire, you know, it`s wrong to fire a gun into a house and they want to get him on felony murder there.

They can`t. They have to figure out the child abuse first in order to get -- it`s a little complicated. I`m sorry for being in the weeds with this.

But I love the tweet. I`m just saying I love the tweet.

All right. Coming up after the break, Chris Robinson, I asked you before to weigh in on the plausibility that someone would stand four to five feet

away from a wall, fire a gun into it, not once, but two times, and think I don`t think this bullet`s going to go through that wall. I just think it`s

going to lodge in the wall and be really, really scary when Emma wakes up tomorrow.

When Chris comes back he is going to tell me because only a firearms expert can probably tell me the truth to that statement, that`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:27] BANFIELD: We are still talking about that high school cheerleader who was shot dead in her sleep through her bedroom wall, and

her football player ex-boyfriend who is about to find out if he is going to be blamed for her murder criminally because he says it was an accident.

An appalling attempt to win her affection and her sympathy, but if all he wanted was that kind of attention, why were two bullets fired towards her

head from two totally different angles outside of her bedroom wall.

My panel is still with me. And we went to break, Chris, asking that question. The plausibility as a firearms expert, please help me understand

if anybody, even a novice shooter, would stand four to five feet away from a wall and assume that the bullet wouldn`t go through it?

ROBINSON: I can`t say to anyone would think that if the bullet`s going a thousand feet per second or 700 miles per hour. You would have to assume

that it is going to penetrate whatever is on the wall. You know, the only saving grace would be that he doesn`t know where the stud is in the wall.

One of these bullets did hit the studs. So he could say he didn`t know what was in the wall. But the second rule of firearm safety is, never

point a gun at anything that you don`t intend or not willing to destroy. So he knew the girl was in the bedroom.

BANFIELD: Right. No kidding.

ROBINSON: And he fires two shots the wall. Yes, ma`am.

BANFIELD: And to be really clear, and Jesse and Rachel, the stud that redirected one of the bullets directed it away from her, didn`t direct it

into her.

STOCKMAN: Right. We could have dealt with a situation where she actually was shot twice, if it hadn`t been for that stud.

BANFIELD: Yes. The stud is not his friend here. The stud actually just redirected the bullet away from her, not into her. He could have said, oh,

God, I fired. And the stud is the one that took the bullet into her. I meant to go elsewhere. So he doesn`t have that defense.

But this is really important, Chris, when he fired the first time, OK, and it`s dark outside, I get it, it`s after midnight, right, guys?

WEBER: 3:00 a.m.

BANFIELD: There you go. It`s dark, right? Her room is dark. The bullet goes through the wall. Is there any way, if you are four to five feet away

from that wall, to see that it went smack through that wall, hence the second shot, don`t give me that baloney that you didn`t think the bullet

will go through? What do you think would affect, Chris?

ROBINSON: I mean, you could clearly tell there`s a sound it makes when it penetrates the wall, and you are going to hear it go through multiple

layers. It`s that powerful. So, you know, I disagree with that. I think he would know that it went into the room. And whether his intentions were,

as you keep saying, honest or not, that he didn`t mean to hurt her, you are firing into a room where an individual is sleeping this their bed. So you

had to know what could happen here.

BANFIELD: You know, here`s the other thing. I did NRA training, OK. I was really worried at one point about my personal safety and I didn`t want

to have a gun in my house without really good training. And I went through it. And I learned a lot about the kinds of bullets. And I think our

audience knows a lot of this. But for those of you who don`t, a hollow point bullet, sometimes referred to commonly on the street at top killers,

those will slug into a wall, right. They are really good for shooting inside your house at bad guys because they are not going to go necessarily

through the wall. They are going to chunk the wall and they are going to stay there.

But, Chris, he didn`t use hollow points. He used, what, a .22?

STOCKMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: So really, the only way you could make a viable argument, plausible argument is to say, look, I used hollow points because I know

they lodge into walls. They don`t go through the wall into your neighbor or into, you know, into your kids` room. They don`t go upstairs through

the ceiling. But .22 bullets go through a lot.

ROBINSON: Sure. I mean, again, the speed is a thousand feet per second or 700 miles per hour. They will definitely penetrate. Now, they are lighter

caliber bullets. But, yes, ma`am, they will penetrate multiple layers of a dwelling or multiple layers of whatever you are shooting at, that`s

correct.

BANFIELD: So Kenya Johnson, jump in here as a defense attorney, you are looking now at a case where, Riley has decided not to take the stand, and

his defense lawyer, with Riley, they have decided not to present a case. I get it. It`s the burden of the prosecution. Right?

But when you have these burning questions about his motivation, why he did this, whether he really did intend it to be an accident, as opposed to a

murder, I can`t imagine that this is going to be good for the jury, for him not to take the stand.

[19:25:23] JOHNSON: Well, there are going to be a lot of questions and you have to answer those questions. When you don`t the jury makes up their own

answers. And in the absence of a good solid explanation, then they very well may take the prosecution`s stance that it was so close, and his

actions were so reckless, that it could only consist of intent.

BANFIELD: Yes, he walks in, by the way into his roommate`s -- he walks into his home, where his roommate is, somewhere around 4:00 in the morning

after the shooting, right. Where you been all night there, Riley? Where you been all night? And he has this cockamamie excuse for where he has

been all night. And this is what he told the interrogators, which by the way, it is on tape, so the jury heard this too.

Listen to this excuse for where he`d been all night and see how much you believe this guy when he also says in court he meant this to be an

accident. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAUL: I sat in the parking lot in front of the athletic center, just sat there for about two to three hours, and just looking at pictures of us and

stuff like that. I sent her a text at 12:55.

I just told her how much I loved her and that I was sorry she didn`t want what we had anymore, and she was going to do great things in the future and

that is why I was going to leave her alone after that.

I fell asleep around then and then so I woke up to the call about what had happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Rachel, we know he is lying there because --

STOCKMAN: That`s what makes no sense to me. So here he is, I mean, whether he is smart or not, come on, you` have watched CSI, you know people

can track cell phones. This guy is saying he was just sitting in the parking lot going through pictures of his ex-girlfriend and crying about

it. When the cops can trace a cell phone he was carrying all the way to Emma Walker`s house. It`s just kind of absurd.

BANFIELD: You got closings tomorrow, right?

WEBER: We do. And I have got to tell you. We talk about Walker Stanley, his roommate. U mean, just another cog in the machine of don`t talk to the

police. Keep saying it. And we talk about why didn`t he go on the stand? Is that a guy you want on the stand, a guy in police percent interrogation

video, secretly recorded, lying?

BANFIELD: Lies, lies. Hashtag is justice with Ashleigh if you want to weigh on this because I keep probably have a thing or two to say about it.

And already, I love, I think it was Diane, maybe Ryan if I`m spelling it right. I think you said this is the same as a drive-by, right?

Yes, I`m with you. I`m with you, Diane. Let`s kept a couple of tweaks to it.

Hey. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Greg as well. And thank you, Kenya.

Kenya, I`m going to ask you to stick around.

We got an update for you tonight. We are learning a lot more about how Steven Houk, that registered sex offender dad, who did this. He led the

Los Angeles police on a low-speed chase in his RV with the kids inside. How on earth was this guy able to hide from the police for two days after

he abandoned his RV with those little kids and the family dog inside in a dusty omen orchard last week?

Well, now we know. The police say he was hiding under the trees in that orchard for a while before making a break for it, running for three hours

straight like a marathon, about 15 or so miles towards Bakersfield. Once he was there, he went to a library in Bakersfield, so he could have a nap,

rest up, find a homeless shelter. Because the homeless shelter was where he got a meal. And we assume a razor so he could shave the gnarly beard

off that he was seen racing (INAUDIBLE).

Within hours, he went from looking like that as he fled the police to looking like this, a clean shaven fugitive being caught by the police.

Investigators say that while he was in the homeless shelter he got this great lead on how to escape using a train, hopping the train down to Miami.

Well, at least somewhere in Florida.

He didn`t make it. Instead, the police caught him in the train, in Barstow, about a hundred miles away, and now he`s facing kidnapping and

assault, and he is being held on a $1 million bond because you don`t give bond to a guy who runs like that.

Justice delayed, mother of an infant snatched from her hospital room almost 20 years ago finally has her day in court and confronts the woman who still

her daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can any sense that the judge gives (INAUDIBLE) change the 18 years (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only one sentence, and I don`t think she`s old enough for that. I would say death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:11] BANFIELD: Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. But how about a mother scorned? How about a mother whose newborn baby girl was

stolen from her by a woman dressed in scrubs at the hospital just eight hours after that baby girl was born. A mother whose child spent the last

19 years calling a stranger mommy. And who still calls that stranger mommy today. That mother is Shanara Mobley trying to reconnect with her now-

adult daughter after nearly two decades of living without her. While taking her kidnapper to court, a kidnapper who couldn`t give her "daughter"

a birth certificate when she started to apply for jobs, and a kidnapper who seems dreadfully sorry for sneaking that little baby girl out of the

hospital in a bag, all those years ago. At least she seemed sorry now that she`s been found out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA WILLIAMS, KIDNAPPER: I know you hate me right now, and I know you`ve heard what people said about me. But I done something wrong, and

this is probably the only thing I`ve ever done wrong. And I hope one day, I hope one day that you could find it in your heart to forgive me for what

I`ve done to you all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Gloria Williams faces 22 years behind bars for taking and raising that baby as her own. But this woman, Shanara Mobley, wants

something worse. Because for Shanara Mobley, this apology is coming about two decades too late. If you were separated from your child, just think

about this, for 18 years, and you finally found the abductor, what would you want to happen to that abductor? What would you want that kidnapper to

suffer? That mom was able to weigh in on that very question, have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can any sentence that the judge gives Ms. Williams to change the 18 years and still go on (INAUDIBLE) here today and 19 years

have --

MOBLEY: It`s only one sentence, and I don`t think she`s old enough for that. I would say death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think many of us watching can understand the emotions that Shanara Mobley was feeling when she said that on the stand. I would say

death. Because honestly for Shanara Mobley, the last 18 years have felt like a death. She never got that child. To her, that child, was almost

like being dead. I want to bring in Craig Aiken. Craig Aiken is Kamiyah Mobley`s father, and he joins me live now from Jacksonville. Sir, thank

you so much for being on with me tonight. I cannot imagine what is in your heart, I cannot imagine how you are coping with what`s happened in this

courtroom. Watching Gloria Williams from the stand, apologizing to you for stealing your baby. I wanted to know if you believed her, if you believed

her apology.

CRAIG AIKEN, FATHER OF KIDNAPPED CHILD: I heard her apology. And, you know, to me, it wasn`t sincere. To me, her apology is more directed to

Kamiyah, you know what I`m saying? And like I say, I feel it was too late for an apology, you know? She could have been in this a long time ago.

BANFIELD: Too late. Too late, but do you think -- Craig, do you think sincere? Did you look at Gloria Williams on the stand and believe that

she`s sorry, or do you believe that Gloria is sorry that life as she knew it, as the mother of who she called Alexis, who you know as Kamiyah, do you

think she`s just sorry that`s all over?

AIKEN: I think she`s just sorry that she got caught, honestly. I just don`t -- I just don`t know what to feel about -- you know, I didn`t -- it

didn`t seem sincere, you know? It seemed like she was pleading for her case, pleading for her freedom or something like that. I don`t think it is

sincere, honestly.

BANFIELD: So, let me ask you this, because there`s a dynamic that`s playing out that our viewers may not know. But we`re seeing pictures of

you and Kamiyah. You have rekindled your relationship with her. She visits you fairly regularly. She celebrates holidays with you. And with

her newfound siblings as well. This is a picture of Kamiyah with her real mom and her real dad when she was reunited with you. But the story has not

been as joyous for Kamiyah`s real mom because as I understand it, Kamiyah has had a tough time bonding with her, right?

[19:40:10] I understand that, right, Shanara, her real mom is angry as hell at the kidnapper. But the kidnapper is Kamiyah`s mom, the only mom she`s

ever known. Can you help me sort through what`s going on there?

AIKEN: At first, you know, Kamiyah was raised with a lady for 18 years. So, you can`t help but bond with something you`ve been around for that

long. But, you know, now, as she have been around us and met us and everything, and she hearing some of the information that`s coming out about

the kidnapping, she`s putting together herself, you know, I`m just giving her time to, you know, to process. Once she processes all the information,

she`s smart to make her own decisions of what she wants. But her and her mama have been -- Shanara have been building a relationship with each other

lately, and it`s been a good relation, they`ve been spending more time together.

BANFIELD: It`s getting better? Craig, it`s getting better, their relationship?

AIKEN: Oh, their relationship is getting much better. They spend time with each other out of town (INAUDIBLE) in South Carolina and in

Jacksonville. Every time she comes to see me, she see her mamma and they go shopping together. She spend weeks over there. I mean, it`s nothing

like what people think no more -- like, I say, it was just part of her transition. She was just working it out, she`s just processing. That`s

what she said when --

BANFIELD: God bless her. You know, like, I got to say, Craig, as her real father, you have got to be so heartbroken over what she`s going through. I

mean, she`s having to process this, she`s the one who`s torn between two people, one that she loves, the kidnapper, who she thinks is her mother,

it`s the only mother she`s ever known, and the other who is an incredible victim in this crime as well, and that`s her birth mother, Shanara. Can I

ask you, when Shanara was on the stand, rightfully angry about the woman who kidnapped her baby, and stole 20 years from her, and said the death

penalty would be appropriate, how did young Kamiyah process that? Because she`s sitting in court looking at the woman, you know, who`s the suspect

here, the defendant, who is her mom. How was that for Kamiyah?

AIKEN: She -- on thing -- one thing about Kamiyah, Kamiyah is strong. Kamiyah could be the poster child for kidnapped kids because -- see, we had

this thing with each other, we can say whatever we want to say. All of us have our different opinions in the situation, all three of us. But we can

come together and talk about the situation and we`ll be able to say what we want to say and I feel is it`s not going to affect what we feel for each

other. It`s what we feel about this baby, you know what I`m saying? We start not let -- what we feel about that lady affect our relationship with

each other. So --

BANFIELD: You know, I`ve got to say, Craig, Gloria made some excuses on the stand. She said at the time she stole your daughter and stole

Shanara`s daughter, she was in a bad place, she`d been abused, she went -- she said, to the hospital to look at babies because she had had a

miscarriage, and that she doesn`t know what came over her, and she took that baby. Do you believe any of that?

AIKEN: No, I don`t. Because you`ve got plenty of people going through a lot of things. She kidnapped my baby, I didn`t go kidnap nobody else`s

child, you know what I`m saying? There`s other places she could have got help for her battery. I`m not saying that she should have been -- I don`t

know if she went through all that. I just don`t think that was the answer.

BANFIELD: So, I can`t thank you enough for sharing this with us. I hope that you and Shanara are able to become, you know, a modern family. I know

you have a wife and I know that Kamiyah spends a lot of time with you and your wife, her stepmother, right? I know Kamiyah has changed her name to

Kamiyah. I mean, that`s weird to say, she was Alexis, right? The fake name she was given was Alexis, and she`s changed her name to Kamiyah. But

I wish you and your daughter and the mom of your daughter, I wish you all the best in repairing a relationship that`s had 18 years of damage done to

it. God bless you.

AIKEN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And coming up in a moment, let`s talk a little bit about this woman, Gloria Williams, she`s facing 22 years in prison, right? She has

already spent, what, a year and a half behind bars waiting for this moment. But there`s Kamiyah sitting in court, looking at the woman she thinks is

her mom, and she doesn`t want her to go away for 22 years. Should we? That`s next.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the woman who is saying sorry just a little too late. Nearly 20 years too late after dressing up like a nurse

and stealing this newborn baby right out of her mother`s arms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So many days I just want to pick that child up and say, come on, let`s get in this car and go. I just couldn`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:50:05] BANFIELD: Well, now, 52-year-old Gloria Williams is facing 22 years behind bars for that, for taking and raising a baby that didn`t

belong to her. That baby is this young woman, now, 19-year-old Kamiyah Mobley, who lost a parent once and maybe about to lose another.

I want to bring in Jenese Harris, anchor and reporter for CNN affiliate WJXT, Psychologist Greg Cason, and Defense Attorney Kenya Johnson. Jenese,

in court, I`m told that Kamiyah Mobley chose a very significant place to sit. Can you describe that for me?

JENESE HARRIS, REPORTER/ANCHOR, CNN AFFILIATE WJXT: Ashleigh, as she -- we -- she did, and we were wondering where was she going to sit. Was she

going to sit on the right side with Gloria Williams family or was she going to sit on the left side with her biological family. Instead, she sat at

the back with her attorney, rows away from either family and we`ve been told that was deliberate because she loves both families. She doesn`t want

conflict with either family, but in this, she wanted to be neutral in the courtroom and sat at the back away from everyone.

BANFIELD: You know, Jenese, we just talked to her biological father Craig Aiken who said she`s a strong young woman. I`ve interviewed Kamiyah, I was

astounded, at the time she was 18, she`s now 19, at the strength of this child who was more of an adult than most people I`ve met. How is she

handling the emotions in this court? Seeing her, you know, fake mom, the kidnapper, apologizing like this, and seeing her real mother asking for the

death penalty. How is she processing this in court?

HARRIS: It`s very difficult to say how she was processing (AUDIO GAP) or to speak for her on behalf of her but I can say from observation, you could

see she was emotionally engaged when Gloria Williams was on the stand, the woman who kidnapped her that she calls mom, and also, her biological

mother. There was one moment when Shanara Mobley sat on that stand and she said, I am her mother. Kamiyah, I am your mother. And there was no way

that you could doubt everyone, including her, including Kamiyah --

BANFIELD: Sure.

HARRIS: -- felt that emotion in the courtroom.

BANFIELD: Yes. Greg, I want you to jump in as a psychologist and tell me how Shanara Mobley is supposed to walk this tight rope going up on that

stand. Honestly, I can imagine her wanting the death penalty for this kidnapper who stole her baby and her life. But at the same time, you know,

hoping to forge a relationship with this 19-year-old little stranger who she desperately wants to be her daughter. How is she supposed to do this?

GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I think you ask the most difficult question. I think she`s the true victim in so many ways because as she had

this woman -- her young baby taken away from her, and yet now, she`s supposed to jump into a psychological complacency and be able to just be

there for her child. You know, I`m very impressed with her father, that he can just allow Kamiyah to be who she is and forge the relationship that he

has with her. That`s extremely emotionally mature. But the issue -- I think it`s going to take a little while and it sounds like she`s taking it

one step at a time, which is what she needs to take.

BANFIELD: So, Kenya Johnson, I`ve only got a couple of seconds left, but she could face 22 years for this or she could get time served, which is

about a year and a half. What do you think is going to happen here?

KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What`s the right punishment? This isn`t like a murder or an armed robbery where the event happens and it

(INAUDIBLE). This was a choice that she made every single day that she woke up to conceal this kidnapping. We`re at the sentencing phase and at

least while she`s in custody, Kamiyah gets the opportunity to bond with her family without interference.

BANFIELD: We`ll see what happens. Jenese Harris, great case, and Kenya Johnson, thank you for that. Kenya, stick around. I want to show you

something. You probably ever don`t ever want to see in real life, a K-9 on the attack, airborne, sailing through a window. What do you think is going

on here and how scared was that camera man? That`s next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Remember that old song, "How much is that doggie in the window?" It turns out they`re worth a lot,

especially, when they do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Whoa is right. Behold, Echo, the K-9 from the (INAUDIBLE) County Sheriff`s Department in Florida at his K-9 training with the

Hillsborough County Sheriff. This happened last week and Echo`s legs barely even touch that window sill as he comes flying through. And you

know the target was glad to have the padding because Echo was not messing around. He latched on, wouldn`t let go. And by the way, yes, the

cameraman was terrified. Just a little terrified when Echo made his dramatic entrance. There you go, buddy. There is nothing like a K-9.

See you back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern. Thanks for watching, everyone. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END