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CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

$40 Million Mystery, Son Linked To Mom`s Disappearance And Wealthy Granddad`s Killing Mother drives into river and kills daughter; Car crashes into truck; Two teenage brothers kill and bury their mother. Teen rescued by mailman from abductors. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired August 7, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Hi, good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Nice to be back. I`ve missed

you. But let us start right away. This is "Crime and Justice." Tonight, big new details about the 24-year-old accused by his own aunts of gunning

down his grandfather. Did his chance of inheriting part of a $49 million estate mean that maybe he had 40 million reason to kill? Or is he possibly

being framed by his own family. Reporter James Walsh is following this case.

JIM WALSH, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Newly released receipts confirm that months before John Chakalos was murdered, his grandson Nathan Carman

purchase an assault rifle which matches the caliber of the gun used that killed him.

BANFIELD: Oh, OK, more on that in just a moment. Hold that thought, James. That does change the metric.

Also tonight. A Missouri mother charged with murder after she allegedly drove her young children right into a river, Susan Smith style. Bernice

Man is covering this tragic story. One of those kids actually survived, though, Bernice, but the other one didn`t.

BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right, little Amaya Bradley did not make it, but her baby brother is hanging on at the

hospital. But why would a mother do such a thing? The little girl`s dad is joining us tonight and he`ll tell you what he thinks happened.

BANFIELD: OK, Bernice, thank you for that. Look forward to it.

Also the teenage brothers charged with beating their own mother to death in her bed and then burying her in the desert. Michael Christian is covering

these two. Michael, they said they wanted to kill he because of currently they did not like the way she was mothering them?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: Yes. They didn`t like her parenting skills, but that is not the first story that they told, Ashleigh.

You`ll never believe the evolution of stories and you`ll never believe what the mother apparently cried out during the attack.

BANFIELD: You say that, Michael. You don`t know how long I`ve been covering these stories. I just might believe it. I`m going to get you

back on this one a little later in the program.

Also some just simply astounding video of a car crashing into a truck. If you can believe it, as you see this, everybody survived, all the

passengers, the drivers, everybody in that screen actually survived. You got to see how we are going to highlight all the bits and pieces, so that

you`ll know who is where, and then you will really wonder how it actually turned out the way it did.

Later on, a preschool assistant -- a preschool assistant -- accused of shooting her high school sweetheart in the neck. She said it was an

accident. How did the bullet get right to that mark? Also the relationship, it turns out might had been a little bit on the rocks. I am

going to introduce you to them in a moment.

First though, I want to take you to New Hampshire, where bombshell new details are emerging about that young man, whose own family is accusing him

of killing grandpa for a lot of money. A lot, millions upon millions. Grandpa John was apparently a property developer with an estimated worth of

about $40 million. And boy, did he ever dope on his grandson`s Nathan. Reportedly paying for both his apartment and his credit card, which is

probably why reports say that Nathan paid cash when he bought a brand new rifle just days before grandpa was shot dead with the exact same caliber of

bullet.

Police say Nathan was the last person to see grandpa alive. And his aunts say that he was into this for the money. Especially because Nathan was

also the last person to see his own mother alive. She ended up disappearing during a mother-son fishing trip when he took her out on his

own boat, a boat called the chicken pox, a boat that Nathan had slightly altered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN CARMAN, SUSPECT: Hello, this is Nathan Carman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nathan, this is United States coast guard, Boston. I need to understand what happened. Over.

CARMAN: Mom and I, two people, myself and my mom, were fishing Block Canyon and there was a funny noise in the engine compartment. I looked and

saw a lot of water. I saw a life raft. I did not see my mom. Have you found her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we have not been able to find her yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Linda Carman`s body was never found, but Nathan Carman was safely rescued, the only heir to the money that his mom would have been

getting from Grandpa John`s estate. While Nathan hasn`t been charged with either of these disturbing mysteries, he has certainly has had to defend

himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:05:00] CARMAN: I have no idea who killed my grandfather. I know that I did not. I had nothing to do with my mother`s death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that remains to be discussed, and to do that, James Walsh is New York magazine reporter on this story and has been covering it since

the beginning. He really wrote the book on this kind of thing if you really look at the shot. Also, the author playing against the house, the

dramatic world of an undercover union, we`re going to ask him about some of the questions that are still floating about in this story. Also, Daniel

Small is an attorney for Nathan Carman`s aunt. And defense attorney, Misty Marris is going to stay with me for the whole program.

Welcome to you all. James, I want to start with you. If anybody knows about this story top to bottom, it`s you. This has been going on for

years. It`s not a brand new story, but every time we get a new development, it seems to become a new story. And now we know more about

this gun. And I don`t want to call it a smoking gun, except they do. Should I?

WALSH: Right. I don`t think we can call it a smoking gun quite yet. It had been reported that police had found evidence of a gun being purchased

sometime before his grandfather`s death. Now we have proof that that gun was purchased just a little over a month before his death.

BANFIELD: In cash?

WALSH: In cash.

BANFIELD: Is that a weird thing for Nathan? Did he have behavior like that all the time, because grandpa was covering a lot of his credit cards?

WALSH: Yes, grandpa was covering his credit cards. He had access to quite a bit of cash in a joint bank account with grandpa. So he certainly liked

the outdoors and liked to buy guns. He told the man who sold them the gun that it was just for target practice. But of course, it was an assault

rifle.

BANFIELD: And he got a cleaning kit, too. That is not weird?

WALSH: You know, I don`t know --

BANFIELD: Lots of people do it. You buy a gun, you buy a kit. Why not? It wouldn`t raise any suspicions for anyone, correct?

WALSH: Right, right.

BANFIELD: One of the things people do note about Nathan, I don`t know if he admittedly discusses it, but it`s not dissociative of the story. He has

Asperger`s, correct?

WALSH: That is right.

BANFIELD: He is a very strange affect, when he is interviewed, preps by police, reporters, et cetera, he seems different.

WALSH: Right. Yes and this is actually one of the reasons, he says, he is the only member of his family not to take a lie detector test after his

grandfather`s death. He wanted to distance himself, and he says, you know, the way I act. People interpret the way I act much differently than

others.

BANFIELD: Misty, you should jump in on that because you know something? The first thing we all think when someone say, I am not taking your

stinking lie detector test, if you have something to hide, but if you have a condition that makes you communicate differently, might had been the

dumbest thing you could possibly do is to submit to something that is a difficult test?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely and the issue is, you`re not being compelled to do so, so if there`s a chance that you could results

that is going to put you in bad light maybe unfairly, then why submit to the test, again these lie detectors test is not admissible in court,

notoriously. So, to me, the defense lawyer, if there is a chance that there could be an issue, because of something like a condition, then don`t

do it.

BANFIELD: Don`t you defense lawyers also say a man who has himself for an attorney has a fool for a client, or fool for a lawyer, either way?

MARRIS: We certainly do. Of course, it`s important to have somebody looking out for your rights when you`re sitting in that chair.

BANFIELD: He is actually looking for money, right? If I know correctly, he is been defending himself, James, and now he is actually been in court

looking for stipends so that he can find an actual lawyer.

WALSH: Right. He is trying to get some of the money that his grandfather left in a trust for him. Of course, the person overseeing that is his aunt

who says, you know, not so fast, I`m not going to give you money to defend yourself in a case, that you know --

BANFIELD: We think above you.

WALSH: Right and the deep irony of this whole thing is that the two people in his life who would be saying, Nathan, you can`t be defending yourself,

are his grandfather and his mother who he was closest with.

BANFIELD: And they`re both gone. And I want to just reiterate. I said it in the beginning, I will probably say it in another time before the segment

is over. He is not charged with any of these. Nothing. The only reason for being in the courtroom is because of the action the aunties are taking

against him. So, I want to bring in Daniel Small on this one. You`re representing the aunt of Nathan, Mr. Small, and I think it`s so important

for our viewers to see a little bit of this young man, because I think Nathan`s demeanor plays up highly in this story for a lot of people.

And if he is in a courtroom and there`s a jury, they are going to see his demeanor as well. So, this is a moment where ABC "Nightline" (inaudible)

interview with him and asked him a little bit about the notion that it is coincidental that he is the last person to see with him, to be seen with

his grandfather before grandfather is dead. And the last to be seen with his mother before mother is forever missing and this were his answers.

Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:10:03] CARMAN: There is no relationship between my having been the last person other than the killer to see my grandfather alive and my having

been on the boat with my mother before it sank.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So that is a very factual answer, very specifically laid out, Mr. Small. This next answer is very different, and I think it led a lot of

people to smell a rat. Maybe legitimately so, maybe not. This is a moment again from "Nightline" where the reporter digs a little deeper about where

the police are going, and you`re about to see what the reaction was from Nathan. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another thing that has happened since we last got together, police searched your mom`s home.

CARMAN: We`re done for this evening period. We are done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re not trying to make you uncomfortable. We`re trying to give you an opportunity to answer some of these allegations.

CARMAN: We`re done here this evening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Mr. Small, the police, after years of both a suspicious, mysterious death and a suspicious disappearance of two people both very

close to Nathan have not charged Nathan with anything. There is all sorts of strangeness about the case. Why is it that his aunts are so convinced

that he has something to do, at least with the death of his grandfather and maybe with the disappearance of mom?

DANIEL SMALL, ATTORNEY FOR AUNTS OF NATHAN CARMAN: Well, Ashleigh, you`re right. The police have not yet charged. We are cooperating 100 percent

with them and trying to help them in any way that we can, but Nathan Carman is a cold, calculating killer. Asperger`s has nothing to do with it. Yes,

he has an unusual affect, but he didn`t buy the assault weapon that James mentioned because he has Asperger`s and he didn`t lie to the police about

that weapon. When they specifically asked him about weapons after the murder of his grandfather. So Nathan has a long history of either lying

when he is confronted or, as you saw in the "20/20" shot, simply shutting down and not answering questions. So, this is not an easy --

BANFIELD: So, Mr. Small, help me remember just one of the pieces in the story that has been so significant. I just mentioned, to James Walsh, is

this the smoking gun, the gun has now been determined to be purchased for cash just before the death of his grandfather? The gun is missing. This

rifle is nowhere to be found. Do we know from Nathan what the story is behind his missing gun? What has he said the reason is that we can`t find

it?

SMALL: This is -- you`re right, this is a high-end two, three thousand dollar assault weapon that the manufacturer says is built for harsh

tactical environments. The police asked him about weapons right after the murder. He didn`t make any mention of this gun, and now he apparently

claims it`s lost, but the big development that came out last week is that in a related case in Rhode Island, when he was asked about that weapon,

about the possible murder weapon for his supposedly beloved grandfather, he took the Fifth Amendment. He refused to answer questions about the

possible murder weapon for his beloved grandfather based on his right not to incriminate himself. Now, Misty will tell you, and she is absolutely

right, he has that right, but why is he doing this? Why is he taking -- why is he refusing to answer questions about the gun? And more important,

why won`t he produce the gun.

BANFIELD: So, Misty, that is a really good point. I always understand when someone has a different affect, it is very dangerous to take the

stand. It`s always dangerous to take the stand, but it`s also very difficult and very dangerous to talk to the police in any way. This is

beyond the lie detector, though. So, Misty, this is a critical crux of the case. What would you advise that client of yours if this were your client,

and there is a missing gun that could be a smoking gun?

MARRIS: Absolutely and Ashleigh, this is one of been the new fact that came out, it is obviously critical to the case, but again, there hasn`t

been that direct link, it`s still just circumstantial evidence, and Ashleigh, I would say in any case, if you can invoke your fifth amendment

right, and that is your right.

BANFIELD: So, just to button this up, James, I looked at a list of things that grandpa used to pay for Nathan. It seems to me that he loved this

kid. He is doted on this kid. He -- had pay for his $2400 a month apartment. He pay for the furnishings. He pay for the utilities. He took

out a credit card with a $5,000 limit and he paid it for Nathan in full. He bought Nathan a truck that was over $20,000, and by Nathan`s own

estimates, he was actually was supported by grandpa to the tune of 100k a year. $100,000 a year. I`m not sure if that puts you in the richest 1

percent, but I think it does. And it just seems to me that this is such a tragic on many levels. Do you know anything about the relationship other

that the money part?

[18:15:08] WALSH: Oh sure. I mean, John Chakalos cared deeply for Nathan. One source recounted a time when Nathan was living in an R.V. in his

mother`s driveway and refusing to open the door. Chakalos banging on the door, you know, trying to reach his grandson, tears streaming down his

face. So, in addition to fact that Chakalos was trying to get Nathan to work in his real estate development business and give him a future, and

that was a big part of his life. His grandson was everything to him.

BANFIELD: What sad family drama. We all have family drama, we don`t have this. My thanks very much, James Walsh, thank you so much. Daniel Small,

I am going to have you back. I hope you come back again as this case continues. And Misty, you can`t go anywhere. I have a lot more

information I need from you as our expert.

SMALL: I will come back.

BANFIELD: Thank you, sir.

Shades of Susan Smith. And if you`re old enough, that name gives you the shivers. Prosecutors now say a Missouri mom, she drove into the river with

her two babies in the car. One child died and now mama is charged with murder. How did this happen? And by the way, how did she get out and how

did the other child possibly survive, too?

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you are from Kansas, you call it the caw, the river that flows right through the northeast part of the state. And if you`ve been on

the caw, with your family this summer, you might have been fishing, might had been kayaking, boating in some way, but there was one woman who did

something very, very different on the caw with her kids this weekend, something allegedly ho horrifying and deadly. Because that is where

prosecutors say, Scharron Dingledine drove her five year-old daughter and her one year-old son right into the water just like Susan Smith did decades

ago. The rescue team were able to save Scharron and her baby boy and they were able to pull that car from the river, but it was not until the next

day that they found the body of that little girl, Amaya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON BRADLEY, VICTIM`S FATHER: That smile, the little girl`s smile is priceless. I can`t even wrap any head around the fact that it happened. I

can`t wrap my head around the fact that Scharron would do that.

I don`t know a lot of things. I`m still in shock. I don`t -- like I said, I still can`t even believe what happened. I just wish I could bring her

back in some way. I really hope that she realizes what she did and I hope that she hurts as bad as we hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight Scharron Dingledine is charged with killing her daughter and trying to kill her son, but it`s the why that remains a mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN TRENT MCKINLEY, LAWRENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: The motive has not really been flushed out yet. We still have a lot of investigative work to

do. We focused on getting victims to the hospital for treatment and we focused on this recovery operation. So, now we`re going to be moving into

the investigative phase and that will probably take some time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me now on the phone, Max Londberg. He is a reporter for the Kansas City Star. Clinton Bradley is little Amaya Bradley`s father.

Also CNN law enforcement analyst and retired FBI supervisory special agent, James Gagliano, is with me and defense attorney, Misty Marris, has stayed

on as well.

Max, if I can begin with you. At the Kansas City Star, I am guessing that you probably haven`t covered a story like this, and I think you kind of

have to be in the business of journalism for three decades to really feel the sting of the name Susan Smith. Tell me a little about how you all are

processing this story.

MAX LONDBERG, REPORTER, THE KANSAS CITY STAR: It`s one that just boggles the mind. There is still a lot of information that has not been released

yet by authorities. For example, there has been no evidence yet released on why Miss Dingledine has been charged with murder, but we continue to ask

questions and hope we get answers soon.

BANFIELD: And then, correct me if I`m wrong, Max, but there is so much that is also very strange about how this played out. I mean, this all

started 165 miles away. Apparently she has nothing to do with this area of Kansas. She is apparently from Columbia, Missouri. We`ve got the map to

show where she is from in Columbia and how far she drove to Lawrence, again, a place with which she has no connection. Do you know anything more

about why that area?

LONDBERG: We unfortunately don`t at this time. Like you said, it`s quite a distance from where she is from. She is from Columbia, Missouri. It`s

about a 150-mile drive to Lawrence, Kansas across the state line. We don`t know why she was there, what she was doing and why she ended up in that

part of Kansas.

[18:25:06] BANFIELD: In the Susan Smith case, you know, it was a boat ramp and the prevailing wisdom was that Susan put that car into drive and was

not in it when it went into the water and those two babies of Susan`s were strapped into their car seats and you know, died. In this particular case,

do we know the fact pattern of how this played out? Was this mother, Scharron Dingledine in the car when it went into the water? Did she run

into the water afterwards? Because when the rescuers got there, she was in the water with her one-year-old.

LONDBERG: Correct, she was in the water, she was rescued with her one- year-old the day this happened. We don`t know technically if she was in the car when it went in the water with her children or if she was not in

the car when it went in the water, but we know that she rescued her one- year-old, but her five-year-old tragically was not and she perished.

BANFIELD: I want to bring Mr. Clinton Bradley in, if I can, Mr. Bradley, I`m so sorry for your loss and I just can`t imagine what you`re going

through right now. I think the first question I want to ask you is if the police are communicating with you about what they know to be the story, to

be the case, and how and why your daughter died. Have you had people with you to help you process this?

BRADLEY: Thank you for your condolences. I never received a call about my daughter dying from the police. I found out through a Facebook message

from an old friend I hadn`t talked to in about a decade. I was supposed to receive some type of call from him today, and I still haven`t received a

call about it. I really don`t know much about what happened besides, you know, pretty much what you said, you know, she drove the car into the

river, and my little girl is dead now.

BANFIELD: Mr. Bradley, do you have any idea why Scharron might have done this?

BRADLEY: I don`t. You know, Scharron and I, we`ve never seen eye to eye in the past few years. We were high school sweethearts and I loved her and

we had a kid together, and we got along for a while after having the kid, but we didn`t see eye to eye after that. I would always say, you know, I

may not like her, but she is a good mother. I would never, ever would have thought anything like this would happen with Amaya. You know, I thought,

Scharron was a good mother and would never do anything like this. Nobody, you know, would have thought this.

BANFIELD: Was there any suspicion that she was struggling under the weight of raising two children? Anyone who thinks that is an inappropriate

question, some people struggle mightily with raising one child. Do you know at all, Mr. Bradley, if she was having difficulties with raising the

kids?

BRADLEY: I think she was going through some depression, maybe, or maybe some postpartum depression. Maybe she was, I don`t know what, you know,

she was struggling with, I know she was going through a hard time from what I hear. You know, I didn`t know at the time she was going through a hard

time, but I think within the past year, her entire personality has changed from what I`ve heard from people who had been around her, but everyone had

trouble getting in touch with her during the past year. She told people she didn`t want them to be part of Amaya`s lives and pushed people away.

She didn`t want anyone to help her with the kids. She was afraid that people would take the kids from her, and from my understanding that was

part of her thought process behind driving the kids into the river, was that if I can`t have my kids, nobody can.

BANFIELD: If I can, Mr. Bradley, I would like to have James Gagliano to weigh in on this from an investigative standpoint. Because that is really

where these case would be right now James and I don`t know what this young mother is telling the police, if anything, but they sure do seem to know a

lot. What would they be looking for if it were not a confession in terms of dealing the exact way these children ended up in the water?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure, Ashleigh. In comprehends to me that to sense what the father is going through right now,

I cannot even imagine the weight on him and what he is dealing with. You mentioned the Susan Smith case. That goes back about 24 years. Actually

just about seven miles, north of here, about seven years ago, there was a case of a woman in new birth did the same thing, driving the minivan with

four kids in the car, drowned three of them and one of them managed to escape and the woman also perished. In this instances, in gently breaks

down to one or two things, either trying to be vindictive and get back at a spouse or a former lover with the father of the children, or number two,

Ash, I think it is something that we don`t discuss enough. Post-partum depression. And I think those are two things the police have to look -

1830

[18:30:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: -- two things. Either trying to be vindictive and get back at a spouse or a former lover with the father

of the children or number two, I shall think it is something that we don`t discuss enough, postpartum depression. And I think those are two things

that police have to look at in these instances.

Was this an issue where one woman was dealing with struggling with imbalance of hormones after having her last child, or whether or not is was

something related to wanting to get back at a father?

ASLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE HOST: Serena Williams just went public with this today and how much of a startle this is. And I know that`s

no consolation for Clinton Bradley dealing with the loss of his daughter, but it is certainly something that I think needs to be discussed more.

My thanks to Max Londberg for helping us to sort through this from the "Kansas City Star." Mr. Bradley -- Clinton Bradley, thank you as well for

sharing your story with us and the memories of little Amiyah. She just look like -- just a shining star. James, again, I`m going to ask you to stick

around if you will as well. And Misty, I`d like you to stick around too. Look at that face. Oh, my god. What a loss.

OK, I want to preface this next story, and this is really important, because whenever you see something that`s really jarring, it`s important

for you to know the condition of the people who were involved in the (inaudible) jarring incident. Everybody, you`re about to see is fine. They

survived. But that doesn`t deflect from how unbelievable the video is that I`m going to show you.

And you have heard this over and over and over again, and I hope the video will really pound it into you. Slow down. Please slow down when you see an

emergency vehicle on the side of the highway, because if you don`t do that, then something like this could happen to you.

Take your moment here and look at that vehicle in the front. And there is a white vehicle way behind that truck, speeding up to the scene in that far

right lane and smashing right into that man and that truck. That truck just stalled on the side of the road.

It`s the kind of crash people do not typically walk away from alive, but look to the left and you can see one of the passengers actually staggering

away. Apparently the white sedan plowing into the blue truck did not even appear to hit the brakes. The guy on the right, just thrown into the lane,

the far lane there. Just shocking, look at that.

And oncoming traffic didn`t even hit him. So that`s also spectacular in its own right. So the guy in the white shirt, he slammed into those oncoming

lanes in the interstate over the barrier. There were two passengers inside the truck as well. And they were ejected in the explosion.

The driver landed two lanes over. Other cars had to swerve. So there is one that`s lying down. There is one wandering away. There is a man wandering

away. He looks like he`s just out of it. And the woman is still lying on that lane and shockingly didn`t get hit by the oncoming traffic. So again,

just look. Please don`t do this. Please slow down. Please see when there`s something or someone on the side of the road.

It`s just remarkable. The tow truck driver by the way turned that video in because the tow truck driver wants to remind you, not just the police.

Please slow down. Please? Thank god those people are OK, and thank you to Metro One Auto Services in Toronto, Canada for sharing that reality with us

tonight. Cautionary you to reality with us tonight.

Cautionary Tale folks, should be chasing (ph) you right now. When a Nevada woman is killed in a violent and bloody attack, it is her own two sons who

claimed they were just helping her to commit suicide. That`s right, helping their mom to commit suicide. The details and how their story began to

collapse in on itself almost as many times as the hammer strikes that she suffered. That`s next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: At some point, every 17-year-old has a bone to pick with the parents. But no 17-year-old should take it out on a mom or dad the way two

teen brothers reportedly did. Nevada`s Michael Wilson and Dakota Saldivar could spend the rest of their lives in prison after they allegedly teamed

up to attack their own mother in her bed. And it was no prank, it was no tantrum, not even an ordinary blowup.

Police say they spent 30 minutes beating her with a hammer and slashing her neck before burying her body in the desert because they didn`t like her

parenting style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty sick. I mean, I don`t know how anybody could do that to anybody. I just feel, you know, really sad about it. You know, like

I said, she definitely didn`t deserve that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now, both boys are behind bars after reportedly confessing to the killing and then leading cops to this scene. Take a look at the video

they shot. This is NYE County sheriff`s office video, digging for a shallow grave. It took well over a week for the investigators to get to that point

because butchering their mother was just one of multiple different explanations that they gave for the reason like Dawn Leibig all of a sudden

wasn`t around anymore. Not answering phone calls, not at the house.

[18:40:03] These two boys said they knew why. And I want to bring in my panel. Elaine Aradillas is People Magazine`s staff writer. She`s covering

the story. Also Nye County sheriff, Sharon Wehrly is with us on the phone. CNN law enforcement analyst James Gagliano, still her and defense attorney

Misty Marris, also still here.

Elaine, you get the stories that put a chill up my back, and this one did it. These two boys, 17 years-old, from what I gather, one adopted, one not,

correct?

ELAINE ARADILLAS, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Right.

BANFIELD: OK. And they decided what the police say they confessed to, was that they didn`t like way their mother spoke to them or the way she

parented, so they got together to beat the hell out of her until she died. Is that really the fact pattern?

ARADILLAS: I mean, I think, you know, that is what happened. That`s what they eventually admitted to. It took them a little while to get to that

point.

BANFIELD: What did they say first?

ARADILLAS: First they said that she had disappeared. They haven`t seen her in a while. So when the police first came around after they had done a

welfare check, because there were reports that they haven`t seen her. So that`s what they admitted to first. Then cops started seeing

inconsistencies in their stories. So then one of the boys said she wanted to commit suicide and they assisted her.

BANFIELD: I mean, the crime scene was hideous. They`re really suggesting to the police, we did this, this 30-minute bludgeoning and bloody attack

because she wanted it. Really?

ARADILLAS: Well, I mean through some more investigating, you know, she had medical problems so no one really knew what was going on inside the house,

because to bludgeon someone to death, that`s pretty personal.

BANFIELD: It`s massive. And the other personal aspect of this case made me shudder, and that was when Dawn Leibig became aware she was being assaulted

while she slept, she cried out for her boys to help her because she didn`t know that the two assailants were her boys.

ARADILLAS: I know. And the thing is, I mean, what also has come out is that they said that she complained a lot. So we don`t know what was really

happening behind closed doors, but we do know that she cried out for her sons for help, and they were attacking her 20 times with a hammer.

BANFIELD: Let me bring Sheriff Wehrley into the equation. Sheriff Wehrley, I`m becoming more and more familiar with Nye County because of Live PD. I

see so much policing going on in the live T.V., you know, programming, but I don`t think I`ve ever seen anything like this. And I dare say, Sheriff,

I`m just going to go out on a limb saying you probably never seen a case like this, either?

SHARON WEHRLY, NYE COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): I haven`t. This is just about the worst I`ve seen.

BANFIELD: So can you give me any more information? I mean these visuals that you provided to us are chilling enough. Your deputy is out on the

scene in Pahrump, Nevada digging for Dawn Leibig`s body. What else can you tell me about this story?

WEHRLY (via telephone): Well, I think you pretty well covered just exactly how this happened. We had been out there a couple of times, but the boys in

the very beginning had a pretty down-pat story that their mother had gone to Las Vegas and she would return soon. And then that slowly changed, and

finally we had some really good conversations with them and the story broke.

BANFIELD: And Sheriff (inaudible) sort of the, you know, it`s like criminal 101. They mess up so obviously and think they`ve got this figured

out. Didn`t one of them -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- have a posting or some kind of electronic communication saying, my mom passed away, at the

same time telling police they have no idea where their mom was.

WEHRLY (via telephone): You know, I believe that`s true, but we didn`t know that. You know, electronic postings go to their Facebook pages and

stay with their own social network. That was pointed out to us way after the fact.

BANFIELD: Sheriff, how fast did they cough up the actual story, especially that horrifying detail that their mother was actually calling out for them

to help her because she didn`t realize it was actually them doing the killing? How fast did they deliver that information to you?

WEHRLY (via telephone): That was way on in the interrogation -- basic interview techniques, tripping people up. They finally said quite a few

things that lead you to believe that the allegations are absolutely true.

[18:45:03] BANFIELD: Was there anything else they said that I missed that hasn`t been reported? Is there anything else?

WEHRLY (via telephone): You know, actually, you covered it very well.

BANFIELD: I mean, God. What more can you say, honestly, about a story like this? James Gagliano, jump in if you will here. The good sheriff sounds

gobsmacked as we are about this and I`m sure that you and all your years of policing probably haven`t seen many stories like this. When you have two

and they are related, there has to be, you know, a simple solution. Separate and then put the pressure on both, correct?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. I mean, you immediately want to make sure that there is not a story that`s been put together by them spending time together. You

want to ask them the same questions and see how they answer them separately. This just -- it takes me back -- do you remember the Menendez

brothers.

BANFIELD: Oh, do I.

GAGLIANO: OK, so back in the late `80s, early `90s, Alan Dershowitz coined the phrase abuse excuse, right? Parents have been, you know, strict with

the kids and they were abused and that`s why they lashed out. This now, what we`re seeing now, if you remember just a couple of weeks ago with the

Trader Joe shooting in Los Angeles.

The young man, 27-years-old shoots his grandmother and girlfriend because the grandmother complained he had too many TV`s on the house. This is a

grievance excuse where young folks are saying, we`re upset with our parenting, we`re upset with how she treated us, so in turn now, we`re not

just going to commit a crime and kill her. We`re going to do it in the most depraved and intimate personal way possible.

BANFIELD: Misty, five seconds, do they do this in the case? He did it, he did it?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s what you usually see in any sort of conspiracy case. You get somebody turning on the other person. So, I this

case, I think what they did in the end, and again, it was a long road because they told a lot of lies. But coming clean, giving other family

members the solace of knowing what happened and just essentially throwing themselves on the mercy of a prosecutor to hopefully plead the deal or

plead down to something, give themselves a shot.

BANFIELD: All right. My thanks to Elaine Aradillas, I appreciate it. Sheriff Sharon Wehrly, thank you as well. James and Misty, I`ll ask you to

stick around if you could. A terrified 16-year-old girl running for her life after spending three months being held captive by rapists and drug

dealers. And if it weren`t for the passing mailman, she might not be with us today. She just got a chance to meet him, and you`re going to next.

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tonight, a Sacramento mailman is being hailed as a hero after he found a teenage girl cowering and sobbing behind some bushes. That

terrified teenager was fleeing from sex traffickers who had held her captive for three months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN CRISOSTOMO, LETTER CARRIER: I hear this crying, you know, this really bad crying. So I went around and I saw behind this big bush kind of tree,

this young lady. The girl kept saying they`re coming to get me, they`re coming to get me. And I said don`t worry. Nobody`s going to take you

anywhere. I`m here for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Sixteen year-old Crystal Allen says that she was beaten and drugged and raped repeatedly before she managed to break free.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL ALLEN, VICTIM: They made it impossible. They had, like, guard dogs and people who would watch us all the time and not let us leave. I was tied

to chairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ivan Crisostomo was on his regular mail route when he found Crystal in those bushes and he quickly led her into the safety of his mail

truck. He stayed with her as they waited for the police and also called her parents to tell them that she was safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: I`m super thankful. And I`m happy he did that for me.

CRISOSTOMO: I don`t see myself as a hero. I see myself as a person who -- I really want to help, you know, and that`s what I did. I helped her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, no, M. Crisostomo. You are a hero. A lot of people would just walk on by, move along, saying not my thing, but you didn`t.

Okay. If you think that you`ve seen it all at a convenience store, you might want to think again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, man. You all got beer still? You all got beer still? You all ain`t out are you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yeah. That`s funny, ha-ha. You think that`s fake. Guess what? It is not. I`m going to tell you what happened to this guy, both of them,

afterwards.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "One More Thing" for you tonight. How much beer would it take for you to think that taking a gator with you on a beer run is a good idea?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, man. You all got beer still? You all got beer still? You all ain`t out are you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He`s laughing a lot now, but not after, because it`s no surprise --

1900 [19:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Yes. He is laughing a lot now. But not after. Because it`s no surprise 28-year-old Robby Stratton who

told reporters that alcohol a role in decision to take that five-foot gator in the store. Well he and her friend now charge with illegal possession of

an alligator not to mention animal cruelty. Not funny.

Next hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: They were high school sweetheart sweethearts, but there`s nothing sweet about their last argument. A gunshot straight to the neck.

She says it was an accident. But now dark details are emerging about this not-so-perfect couple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t even wrap my head around the fact that it happened.

BANFIELD: Memories of Susan Smith as police say two children are intentionally driven into a Kansas river.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m still in shock.

BANFIELD: As divers find the body of a 5-year-old girl, her 1-year-old brother is fighting for his life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wish I could bring her back some way.

BANFIELD: Did mom really try to kill both her kids?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope that she hurts as bad as we hurt.

BANFIELD: At first they said mom was missing, but then their story changed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They reported that at her request they stabbed her to death.

BANFIELD: How investigators decided two teen brothers murdered their mom in her bed while she begged them for her life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty sick. I mean, I don`t know how anybody could do that to anybody.

BANFIELD: What could have driven them to such unspeakable violence?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tired of her parenting style.

BANFIELD: Plus, a jaw-dropping highway collision. How this even happened and how everyone somehow survived.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.

Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

Mary Kathryn Higdon was preschool assistant at St. Georgia`s Episcopal (ph), the kind of that they have matching uniforms and daily chapel. Well,

Ms. Higdon was probably the one helping all the little kids wash their hands before class. The person leading them and sing along and story time.

Definitely doesn`t sound like the kind of person who would point a gun at her high school sweetheart and then go ahead and shoot him right in the

neck.

But that`s what the police say she did. Even though Mary Kathryn says she didn`t or at least that she didn`t mean to. According to the police, she

says the gun simply went off when she was handing it over to Steven. But it sure did hit him in the kill zone. And now she`s charged with murder as

dark new details start to surface about that night and about their allegedly rocky relationship.

Joining me now live, freelance investigative reporting Tina Douglas. Also CNN law enforcement analyst and retiring FBI supervisory special agent

James Gagliano and defense attorney Misty Maris.

OK, Tina. This is weird. They seem like the all-American couple. She is teaching preschool and now she`s in the slammer on murder. There`s a

disconnect here. What really happened in this story?

TINA DOUGLAS, FREELANCE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING: Well, it`s hard to tell. Police are, of course, investigating all the evidence that they can gather

from the scene. And from what they assumed or what they gathered that night was enough for them to believe that something with malice happened.

That it was not accidental.

BANFIELD: What`d she use? A glock 42 I think I`m looking at? Some kind of extraordinarily dangerous weapon. It wasn`t as though they had a

hunting rifle they were putting away on the rack.

DOUGLAS: Yes. And she was hysterical when police arrived and said she couldn`t understand how this could have happened because she didn`t keep

bullets in the chamber. So that`s mysterious within itself. That if it was her gun and it belonged to her, why was there a bullet in it if she

told them she never kept bullets in the gun?

BANFIELD: And then what was the story about somebody smelled some alcohol on her breath? I`m not sure if it was the investigators who were

interrogating her or some neighbors. Where did they get the idea booze might have played a part?

DOUGLAS: The investigating officer arrived on the scene and said she smelled alcohol on Mrs. Higdon. I don`t know if that led from one thing to

another and then there was some, you know, investigating the scene and searching the room where Mr. Freeman was found.

BANFIELD: Any response from the little preschool, St. Georgia`s Episcopal (ph), where all those cute little uniformed kids are likely to start

showing up to school in a week or two?

[19:05:06] DOUGLAS: Yes. School is starting in Georgia this week and last week. I`m not sure (INAUDIBLE) county schools resumed. But haven`t heard

anything from the school, but I`m sure they have something to say about all of this.

BANFIELD: The weird thing it just kind of looks like something out of Julie Andrews, right.

DOUGLAS: Yes.

BANFIELD: She is preschool teacher at the school. Now she`s got a picture like this that`s out on national television.

James Gagliano, I get it. The cops get there and they smell on liquor on the breath, et cetera. But there`s got to be a heck of a lot more to get

to a mug shot like that and a charge of murder, possession of a firearm, and the commitment of a crime. And that is a death penalty state, I may

remind you. What are the investigators doing right now if she cools her heels and finds out what this photo really means?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure. Well, I`m from Georgia. So I mean, having a firearm in and of itself is not a crime

unless she didn`t have a permit for it. And investigators are probably going to be sifting through all that right now.

There was a history, there was a pattern here of arguments and whether or not that rose to the level of domestic abuse or just people calling 911

over a kerfuffle one night after the two of them had been out drinking. There are no perfect crimes. And what is going to ultimately solve this

case in my estimation is going to be the interviews the police did immediately following the discovery of the body. Interviews with her. And

then matching that up with what the medical examiner finds at the scene. She was handing him a gun, she said. Does the medical examiner determined

that the body supine and he was sleeping at the time?

BANFIELD: So it was two shot for a second -- let`s get misty on this. So I`m going hand you a gun.

GAGLIANO: Yes.

BANFIELD: In order for it to get into your neck --.

GAGLIANO: Right.

BANFIELD: It seems -- who hands a gun this way? Maybe if you`re totally blotted, if drinking all night.

GAGLIANO: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: I mean, honestly, people who know guns --

GAGLIANO: Responsible gun owner wouldn`t do that.

BANFIELD: Right. You wouldn`t just hand a gun like this, right? Especially with your finger on the trigger?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. Was there a determination there was a struggle, you know? Were there any defensive wounds on the hands?

BANFIELD: Forensics will tell a lot in this, right?

GAGLIANO: Forensic will tell all that.

BANFIELD: So Misty, let`s say you are assigned this case. I don`t know if she has got her owned attorney and she is getting defense counsel presented

for her. We all have the right. Where do you start?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you start here with the statement she makes right after the crime on that porch hysterically crying saying I

didn`t mean to do it. And then you back track from there to try and figure out what happened in those moments. Because from what we know in the

reports, police are saying there`s evidence to show intent but we don`t know what that is. So this could be the type of crime that could be

downgraded from what she`s charged with right now to a reckless or negligent case.

BANFIELD: What on earth could be evidence that shows intent? That`s in your head, that`s means rea in the law.

MARRIS: It`s going to be the forensics, I think.

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. The harvesting of social media, things she might have said to a neighbor, things she might have said about being frustrated

with her husband or maybe there was another relationship. Police have to do the link analysis. Who she talked to, who might know something about

him? Did a family member see something was up or a friend of her or somebody at school?

BANFIELD: So I once covered a case where, in Florida, where a frustrated and frantic mother who had a severely ADHD child had taken a felt marker to

the back of here brand news car seat. And she said to her officemate when she to work that day, I could have just killed him. Well, the daughter

ended up dead. And that was brought up in court as, you know, one of these intent issues.

What person among us hasn`t said I could have just killed you when you said that Misty? Or I could have just killed my husband when he, you know, came

home late the other night. It doesn`t really mean intent if you just say these things on write them, does it?

MARRIS: No, not necessarily. Although there is maybe a little suspicion if somebody ends up dead rather than --.

BANFIELD: But everybody who ends up dead has someone who has said I could have just killed him or her.

MARRIS: It is true. There are something called statements against interest. Those are types of things you are going to hear in court.

Somebody say something contemporaneous once the crime that is going to feed into what the intent is.

BANFIELD: By the way, if you are her attorney, are you showing this to the jury constantly? Look at this happy couple, for God`s sake. She doesn`t

look murderous. They don`t look like the type that had five visits from the police, turns out four of them were from barking dogs. One was because

someone heard someone yelling. I mean, this looks like, you know, let`s go to the Alaska for a vacation. The happy honeymooners for God`s sake.

MARRIS: Absolutely. And that`s what you are going to try and show. You are going to look back at the relationship and say that there`s no way that

this was done purposefully. This was an accident. As that statement again made that day, that`s going to be a big piece of evidence with the

courtroom.

BANFIELD: So Tina, come in on this one. There`s another whole aspect to this story that makes it a little crazy. And that is that typically when

you have parties like this, the alleged killer has a camp, families that come to his or her defense. And then the victim has a camp. Families and

friends that come to their defense, you know, postmortem defense, right.

In this story, both families are very close. They spent Christmases together. They are actually kind of descending one another. Oh, my God I

can`t imagine, you know, what her family is going through because of the circumstance she`s in. How hard is that making this? And maybe give me

some color on what this family dynamic is between these two love birds?

[19:10:29] DOUGLAS: Well evidently, the families are very close like you mentioned. They spend holidays and special occasions together. So both

families are really shocked and stunned about this whole situation. Stunned and shocked because one is dead and one is charged with killing the

other. So the family just, they can`t believe that the circumstances and the evidence that they have gathered from the scene could result in Miss

Higdon being charged with the crime.

BANFIELD: And they are not newbies either. I mean, high school sweethearts. He was 23 when he took that bullet to the neck and died.

She, Mary Katherine Higdon, 24, and they had been together for seven years. So the families have had the better part of a decade to become close.

DOUGLAS: Right. And get to know each other. So they are just as shocked as the community is. And I`m sure the school that Miss Higdon worked in,

they can`t understand how this could have happened. And of course they are both in mourning behind all of it. It`s just something they don`t

understand. And it could be something that they -- a dark side that none of the family members would have known about.

BANFIELD: So James, you said you are from Georgia. This is Griffin. I don`t know where Griffin is.

GAGLIANO: It`s just north of the city of Atlanta. I`m from Atlanta. And an idyllic place. I mean, I looked at the school they worked in. And

idyllic setting and scenario there. (INAUDIBLE) if you will. What`s going to be the thing here I think is going to be the grips for investigators is

her immediate statement in the abdomen --.

BANFIELD: I have that. I didn`t mean to do it. Oops.

GAGLIANO: Yes.

But now, somebody -- sometimes people during that chaotic moment after an incident like this, a tragic incident. Let`s just say, remember she is

innocent until proven guilty. Let`s say that`s just somebody that does not know how to respond. We look at people all the time and we say, well, they

should act this way if they did that. But it`s hard to say. People react differently.

BANFIELD: But Misty, I didn`t mean to do that. I could see that on both sides of the coin in that courtroom. I didn`t mean to do that. You killed

him. I didn`t mean to do that, I handed the gun, it went off.

MARRIS: Yes. And it`s going to all come down to those facts and circumstances right before that instant. There is going to be forensic

evidence. But how much pressure do you need to put on that trigger in order for it to go off and the angles and the positioning. All of that`s

going to have an impact. But from a defense perspective, you are going to focus on that statement. She came out, she`s hysterical. There might have

been alcohol involved.

BANFIELD: When she`s drunk and she`s trying to give the moment by moment meaning I reached her, I don`t want to make this one up here. I reached

over in the coffee table, I grabbed it by the butt end, I handed it to him and I handed it this way. Well, her memory is kind of juiced, shall I say.

So even that you can`t match with the forensics if someone`s drunk in their recollection or skewed (ph).

MARRIS: The credibility of that statement might be problematic, but it can also serve to negate intent. It can bring you down, I couldn`t formulate

intent. So all of those factors are going to come into play.

BANFIELD: So Tina, I`m sitting up here all high and mighty on a fancy glass set in New York City where when people hear about gun crimes, they

recoil and they think who has a gun. I`m kidding. But you know how it is, right?

DOUGLAS: Yes.

BANFIELD: People like to just sort of smear everybody with the same brush.

In Georgia, southern culture, gun culture is not weird. It is not an indictment to have a gun. It is not an indictment to have a gun open on

your table and handing it over to someone.

DOUGLAS: Exactly.

BANFIELD: So for a case to go forward in Georgia that has this fact pattern, that might not be something that`s so weird.

DOUGLAS: Well, it`s not. Everybody here has a gun.

BANFIELD: Well, a lot of people do though. And it`s not strange.

DOUGLAS: Yes. But, you know, I`m thinking about this case and going if police gathered evidence from the scene, from the bedroom where Mr. Freeman

was apparently found, they may have determined that there was intent by where the bullet went at what direction was it? Did it enter through the

front of his body or the back? So that could be one reason why they have charged her. We just don`t know.

BANFIELD: Yes. I`m waiting for, you know, all of the facts to come out on this one.

And I thank you, Tina, for your great reporting as always.

James Gagliano, I`m going to ask you to stick around.

Misty, you have to work harder too.

Thank you both for being here.

Shades of Susan Smith on this next story. Prosecutor say, a Missouri mom drives into a river with her two babies in the car. One of those children

dies and now mom is charged with murder.

So how much like the Susan Smith story really is this? And how did she get out of the car? And why is one child alive and the other one not?

You are going to hear all about this next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:01] BANFIELD: If you are from Kansas, you call it the kaw (ph). The river that flows through the northeast part of the state. And if you

have been in the kaw (ph) with your family this summer, you might have been fishing, might have been kayaking, boating in some way. But there was one

woman who did something very, very different on the kaw (ph) with her kids this weekend. Something allegedly horrifying and deadly. Because that`s

where prosecutors say (INAUDIBLE) drove her 5-year-old daughter and her 1- year-old son right into the water just like Susan Smith did decades ago.

The rescue teams were able to save Sharon and her baby boy. And they were able to pull that car from the river. But it was not until the next day

that they found the body of that little girl Amaya.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON BRADLEY, VICTIM`S FATHER: That smile. Little girl`s smile is priceless. I can`t even wrap my head around the fact that it happened. I

can`t wrap my head around the fact that Sharon would do that. I don`t know a lot of things. I`m still in shock. Like I said, I still can`t even

believe what happened. I just wish that I could bring her back some way. I really hope that she realizes what she did and I hope that she hurts as

bad as we hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight Sharon Dingledine (ph) is charged with killing her daughter and trying to kill her son. But it`s the why that remains a

mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. TRENT MCKINLEY, LAWRENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Motive has not really been flushed out yet. We still have a lot of investigative work to do. We

focused on getting victims to the hospital for treatment and we focused on this recovery operation. So now we are going to be moving into the

investigative phase. And that will probably take some time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me now on the phone, Max Londberg, he is a reporter for the Kansas City Star. Clinton Bradley is little Amaya Bradley`s father. Also

retired CNN law enforcement analyst and retired FBI supervisory special agent James Gagliano is with me and defense attorney Misty Marris has

stayed on as well.

Max, if I can begin with you. At the Kansas City Star, I`m guessing that you probably haven`t covered a story like this. And I think you kind of

have to be in the business of journalism for, you know, three decades to really feel the sting of the name Susan Smith.

Tell me a little bit about how you all are processing this story.

MAX LONDBERG, REPORTER, THE KANSAS CITY STAR (on the phone): It`s -- it`s one that just boggles the mind. It`s -- there`s still a lot of information

that has not been released yet by authorities. For example, there`s been no evidence yet released on why she has been charged with murder. But we

continue to ask questions and hope we get answers soon.

BANFIELD: And then correct me if I`m wrong, Max, but there`s so much that is also very strange about how this played out. I mean, this all started

165 miles away. Apparently she has nothing to do with this area of Kansas. She is apparently from Columbia, Missouri. We got the map to show where

she is from in Columbia and how far she drove to Lawrence, again, a place with which she has no connection. Do you know anything more about why that

area?

LONDBERG: We, unfortunately, don`t at this time. Like you said, it`s quite a distance from where she`s from. She`s from Columbia, Missouri.

It`s about a 150 mile drive to Lawrence, Kansas. Across the state line. We don`t know why she was there, what she was doing. Why she ended up in

that part of Kansas.

BANFIELD: In the Susan Smith case, you know, it was a boat ramp and the prevailing wisdom was that Susan put that car into drive and was not in it

when it went into the water and those two babies of Susan`s were strapped into their car seats and, you know, died.

In this particular case, do we know the fact pattern of how this played out? Was this woman (INAUDIBLE) in the car when it went into the water?

Did she run into the water afterwards? Because when the rescuers got there, she was in the water with the 1-year-old.

LONDBERG: Exactly. She was in the water. She was rescued along with her 1-year-old the day this happened. We don`t know technically if she was in

the car when it went into the water with her children or if she was not the car when it went into the water. But we know she was rescued. Her 1-year-

old was rescued. But her 5-year-old tragically was not and she perished.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in Clinton Bradley, and if I can.

Mr. Bradley, I am so sorry for your loss. And I just cannot imagine what you are going through right now. I think the first question I want to ask

you if the police are communicating with you about what they know to be the story, to be the case, and why and how your daughter died. Have you had

people with you to help you process this?

[19:25:12] BRADLEY (on the phone): Thank you for your condolences. I never received a call about my daughter dying from the police. I found out

through a Facebook message from an old friend I hadn`t talked to in about a decade. And I was supposed to receive some type of call from them today.

I still haven`t received a call about it. I really don`t know much about what happened besides, you know, her, you know, pretty much what you said.

You know, she drove the car into the river and my little girl`s dead now.

BANFIELD: Mr. Bradley, do you have any idea why Sharon might have done this?

BRADLEY: I don`t. You know, Sharon and I, we have never seen eye to eye in the past few years. Just, you know, we were high school sweethearts and

I loved her and we had a kid together and we got along for a while after having the kid, but we didn`t see eye to eye after that. I always say, you

know, I may not like her, but she is a good mother. And I would have never, ever, ever, ever thought anything like this was going to happen to

Amya.

You know, I thought that Sharon was a good mother and would never do anything like this. Nobody, you know, would have thought this.

BANFIELD: Was there any suspicion that she was struggling under the weight of raising two children? And anyone who thinks that`s an inappropriate

question, some people struggle mightily with raising one child. Do you know at all, Mr. Bradley, if she was having difficulties with raising the

kids?

BRADLEY: I think she was going through some depression, maybe, or maybe some postpartum depression. I don`t know what she was struggling with. I

know she was going through a hard time from what I hear. You know, I didn`t know at the time she was going through a hard time. But I think

within the past year, her entire personality has changed from what I have heard from people that have been around her. But everyone has had trouble

getting in touch with her in the past year and she`s cut off a lot of people and told a lot to people she didn`t want them to be part of Amya`s

life. And pushed people away. She didn`t want anybody to help her with the kids. She was afraid people were going to take the kids from her. And

from my understanding, that was a part of her thought process besides driving the kids into the river was if I can`t have my kids, nobody can.

BANFIELD: If I can, Mr. Bradley, I would like James Gagliano to weigh in on this from an investigative standpoint because that`s really where this

case would be right now, James. And I don`t know what this young mother is telling the police, if anything. But they sure do seem to know a lot.

What would they be looking for if it were not a confession in terms of dealing with the exact way these children ended up in the water?

GAGLIANO: Sure, Ash. Incomprehensible to me to sense what the father is going through right now. I cannot even imagine the weight on him and what

he is dealing with. You mentioned this Susan Smith case. I mean, that goes back 24 years. Actually, just about 70 miles north of here about

seven years ago, there was the case of the woman in Newburgh who did the same thing. Driving in minivan with four kids in the car. Drowned three

of them and one of them managed to escape. And the woman also perished.

In these instances, generally breaks down to one of two things. Either trying to be vindictive and get back at a spouse or a former lover with the

father of the children. Or number two, Ash, I think it is something that we don`t discuss enough, postpartum depression. And I think those are two

things that police have to look at in these instances. Was this an issue where a woman was dealing with struggling with an imbalance of hormones

after having her last child? Or whether or not it was something related to wanting to get back at a father.

BANFIELD: Ms. Serena Williams just went public with this today and how much of a struggle this is. And I know that`s no consolation for Clinton

Bradley dealing with the loss of his daughter, but it is certainly something that I think needs to be discussed more.

My thanks to Max Londberg for helping us sort through this from the Kansas City Star.

Mr. Bradley, Clinton Bradley, thank you as well for sharing your stories with us and the memories of little Amya. She just looked like just a

shining star.

James, I`m going to ask you to stick, if you will, as well.

And Misty, I`d like you to stick around as well.

Look at that face. Oh, my God. What a loss.

OK, I want to preface this next story. And this is really important because whenever you see something that`s really jarring, it`s important

for you to know the condition of the people who are involved in the very jarring incident. Everybody, you are about to see is fine. They survived.

But that doesn`t deflect from how unbelievable the video is I`m going to show you. And you have heard this over and over and over. And I hope the

video will really pound it into you.

Slow down. Please slow down when you see an emergency vehicle on the side of the highway because if you don`t do that, then something like this could

happen to you. Take your -- take your moment here and look at that vehicle in the front.

And there`s a white vehicle way behind that truck. Speeding up to the scene in that far right lane. And smashing right into that man and that

truck. That truck just stalled on the side of the road. This is the kind of crash people do not typically walk away from alive. But look to the

left and you can see one of the passengers actually staggering away. Apparently that white sedan plowing into the blue truck did not even appear

to hit the brakes.

The guy on the right just thrown into the lane, the far lane there. Just shockingly. Look at that. And oncoming traffic didn`t even hit him. So

that`s also spectacular in its own right. So the guy in the white shirt, he slammed into those oncoming lines in the interstate over the -- over the

barrier. There were two passengers inside the truck as well. And they were ejected in that explosion. The driver landed two lanes over. Other

cars had to swerve.

So there`s one who`s lying down. There`s one wandering away. There`s a man wandering away. He looks like he`s just out of it. And the woman is

still lying on that lane and shockingly didn`t get hit by oncoming traffic. So again, just look. Please don`t do this. Please slow down. Please see

when there`s something or someone on the side of the road. It`s just remarkable. Tow truck driver, by the way, turned that video in.

Because the tow truck driver wants to remind you. Not just the police. Please slow down, please. Thank god those people are OK. And thank you to

the Metro One Auto Services in Toronto, Canada for sharing that reality with us tonight. Cautionary tale, folks. It should be chasing you right

now.

When a Nevada woman is killed in a violent and bloody attack, it is her own two sons who claim they were just helping her to commit suicide. That`s

right. Helping their mom to commit suicide. The details and how their story began to collapse in on itself almost as many times as the hammer

strikes that she suffered. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:14] BANFIELD: At some point, every 17-year-old has a bone to pick with the parents. But no 17-year-old should take it out on a mom or a dad

the way two teen brothers reportedly did. Nevada`s Michael Wilson and Dakota Saldivar could spend the rest of their lives in prison after they

allegedly teamed up to attack their own mother in her bed. And it was no prank. It was no tantrum. Not even an ordinary blowup.

Police say they spent 30 minutes beating her with a hammer and slashing her neck before burying her body in the desert because they didn`t like her

parenting style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty sick. I mean, I don`t know how anybody could do that to anybody. I just feel, you know, really sad about it. You know,

like I said, she definitely didn`t deserve that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now both boys are behind bars after reportedly confessing to the killing and then leading cops to this scene. Take a look at the video they

shot. This is Nye County Sheriff`s Office video digging for a shallow grave. Took well over a week for the investigators to get to that point.

Because butchering their mother was just one of multiple different explanations they gave for the reason why Dawn Liebig all of a sudden

wasn`t around anymore.

Not answering phone calls. Not at the house. These two boys knew why. And I want to bring in my panel. Elaine Aradillas, the People Magazine`s

staff writer, she`s covering this story. Also Nye County Sheriff Sharon Wehrly is with us on the phone. CNN Law Enforcement Analyst James Galliano

still here and defense attorney Misty Marris also still here. Elaine, you get the stories that put a chill up my back. And this one did it.

These two boys, 17 years old, from what I gather, one adopted, one not, correct?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

BANFIELD: OK. And they decided they did -- what the police they confessed too was they didn`t like the way their mom spoke to them or the way she

parented. So they got together to beat the hell out of her until she died. Is that really the fact pattern?

MARRIS: I mean, I think, you know, that is what happened. That`s what they eventually admitted to. It took them a little while to get to that

point.

BANFIELD: What`d they say first?

MARRIS: First they said she had disappeared. They hadn`t seen her in awhile. So when the police first came around after they had done a welfare

check because there were reports that they hadn`t seen her. So that`s what they admitted to first. Then cops started seeing inconsistencies in their

stories. So then one of the boys said that she wanted to commit suicide and they assisted her. And --

BANFIELD: But I mean, the crime scene was hideous. They`re really suggesting to the police, we did this, this 30-minute bludgeoning and

bloody attack because she wanted it, really?

[19:40:01] MARRIS: Well, I mean, through some more investigating, you know, she had medical problems. So, no one really knew what was going on

inside the house. Because to bludgeon someone to death, that`s pretty personal.

BANFIELD: It`s massive. And the other personal aspect of this case made me shudder. And that was that when Dawn Liebig became aware that she was

being assaulted while she slept, she cried out for her boys to help her because she didn`t know that the two assailants were her boys.

MARRIS: I know. And the thing is -- I mean -- what has also come out is that they said that she complained a lot. So we don`t know what was really

happening behind closed doors. But we do know she cried out to her sons for help and they were attacking her 20 times with a hammer.

BANFIELD: Let me bring Sheriff Wehrly into the equation. Sheriff Wehrly, I`m becoming more and more familiar with Nye County because of live P.D. I

see so much policing going on on the live T.V., you know, programming. But I don`t think I`ve ever seen anything like this. And I dear say, Sheriff,

I`m just going to go out on a limb saying you`ve probably never seen a case like this either.

SHARON WEHRLY, NYE COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): I haven`t. This is -- this is just about the worst I`ve seen.

BANFIELD: So, can you give me any more information? I mean, these visuals that you provided to us are chilling enough. Your deputies out on the

scene in Pahrump, Nevada digging for Dawn Liebig`s body. What else can you tell me about this story?

WEHRLY: Well, I think you pretty well covered just exactly how this happened. We had been out there a couple of times, but the boys in the

very beginning had a -- had a pretty down past story that their mother had gone to Las Vegas and she`d return soon. And then that slowly changed.

And finally, we had some really good conversations with them and the story broke.

BANFIELD: And Sheriff, didn`t they told certainly, you know, it`s like criminal 101. They mess up so, so obviously and think they`ve got this

figured out. Didn`t one of them -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- have a posting or some kind of electronic communication saying my mom passed away.

At the same time telling police they had no idea where their mom was?

WEHRLY: You know, I believe that`s true, but we didn`t know that. You know? Electronic posting or go to their Facebook pages and stay with their

own social network. That was pointed out to us way after the fact.

BANFIELD: Sheriff, how fast did they cough up the actual story? Especially that horrifying detail that their mother was actually calling

out for them to help her because she didn`t realize it was actually them doing the killing. How fast did they deliver that information to you?

WEHRLY: Oh, that was way on in the interrogation. Basic interview techniques, tripping people up, they finally said quite a few things that

lead you to believe that the allegations are absolutely true.

BANFIELD: Was there anything else they said that I`d missed that hasn`t been reported?

WEHRLY: No, actually, you covered it very well.

BANFIELD: It`s just -- I mean, god. What more can you say, honestly, about a story like this? James Gagliano, jump in if you will here. The

good sheriff sounds gob smacked as we are about this and I`m sure that you and all your years at police incredibly haven`t seen many stories like

this. When you have two and they are related, there has to be, you know, a simple solution. Separate and then put the pressure on both, correct?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean, you immediately want to make sure that there`s not a story that`s been put

together by them spending time together. You want to ask them the same questions and see how they answer them separately. This just -- it takes

me back. You remember the Menendez brothers.

BANFIELD: Oh, do, I.

GAGLIANO: OK. So back in the late 80s, early 90s, Alan Dershowitz coined the phrase abuse excuse, right? Parents have been, you know, strict with

the kids and they were abused and that`s why they lashed out. This now, what we`re seeing now, if you remember just a couple of weeks ago with the

Trader Joe`s shooting in Los Angeles, the young man, 27 years old, shoots his grandmother and his girlfriend because the grandmother complained he

had too many T.V.s on in the house.

This is a grievance excuse where young folks are saying we`re upset with our parenting, we`re upset with how she treated us. So in turn now, we`re

not just going to commit a crime to kill her, we`re going to do it in the most depraved and intimate and personal way possible.

[19:45:00] BANFIELD: Five seconds. Do they do this in the case? He did it, he did it?

MARRIS: That`s what you usually see in any sort of conspiracy case, you get somebody turning on the other person. So in this case, I think what

they did in the end and again, it was a long road because they told a lot of lies. But coming clean, giving other family members the solace of

knowing what happened and just essentially throwing themselves on the mercy of a prosecutor.

(CROSSTALK)

MARRIS: Plead down to something, give themselves a shot.

BANFIELD: My thanks to Elaine Aradillas. Appreciate it. Sheriff Sharon Wehrly, thank you as well. James and Misty, I`m going to ask you to stick

around if you could.

A terrified 16-year-old girl running for her life after spending three months being held captive by rapists and drug dealers. And if it weren`t

for the passing mailman, she might not be with us today. She just got a chance to meet him and you`re going to next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:51:31] BANFIELD: Tonight, a Sacramento mailman is being hailed as a hero after he found a teenage girl cowering and sobbing behind some bushes.

That terrified teenager was fleeing from sex traffickers who had held her captive for three months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN CRISOSTOMO, LETTER CARRIER: I hear this crying, you know, just a really bad crying. So, I went around and I saw behind this big bush kind

of tree, this young lady. The girl kept saying, they`re coming to get me, they`re coming to get me. And I said, don`t worry, nobody is going to take

you anywhere. I`m here for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: 16-year-old Crystal Allen says she was beaten and drugged and raped repeatedly before she managed to break free.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL ALLEN, CALIFORNIA TEEN: They made it impossible. They had like guard dogs, people who would watch us all the time and not let us leave. I

was tied to chairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ivan Crisostomo was on his regular mail route when he found crystal in those bushes and he quickly led her into the safety of his mail

truck. He stayed with her and they waited for the police and also called her parents to tell them that she was safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: I`m super thankful and I`m happy that he did that for me.

CRISOSTOMO: I don`t see myself as a hero, I see myself as a person who -- I really want to help. You know, that`s what I did. I help her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, no, Mr. Crisostomo, you are a hero. A lot of people would just walk on by, move along, saying, not my thing. But you didn`t.

OK. If you think that you`ve seen it all at a convenience store, you might want to think again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBBY STRATTON, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hey man, you all got beer still? You all got beer still? You aren`t out, are you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes. That`s funny, you think that`s fake? Guess what. It is not. I will tell you what happened to this guy, both of them afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:58:58] BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. Something you might say you only see in Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STRATTON: Hey man, you all got beer still? You all got beer still? You aren`t out, are you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes. You`re seeing what you think you`re seeing, a Lake City Florida man thinking it`s a good idea to bring a five-foot alligator with

him on a beer run. No surprise here but 28-year-old Robby Stratton told reporters that alcohol did play a role in his decision to bring the gator

with him. And now, he`s charged with illegal possession of an alligator and animal cruelty and he`s got a pal sharing in the charges, too.

So Robby and friend kind of gives a whole new meaning to the phrase, see you later, alligator. Some people`s kids. See you back here tomorrow

night, 6:00 Eastern. And also listen to our show any time, download our podcast on Apple podcast or iHeartRadio, Stitcher, tune in or wherever you

get your podcast. And your "CRIME & JUSTICE" fix.

[20:00:01] Thanks for watching, everybody. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END