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CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Picture Perfect Family Rocked By Murders; Killer Dad Pretended Family Was Missing; New Evidence Of A Cleanup Uncovered. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired September 17, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- today may know what we can do with science, but nobody knows what we`re going to do tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What will his defense be?

SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: Hi, beautiful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He uses the words, those girls. Already saw them as dad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is his trained alert or indication to say hey, I smell human remains scent in this area.

CHRISTIAN WATTS, HUSBAND OF SHANANN WATTS, SUSPECT: In my heart, I believe that she is somewhere. Like, I want them back now.

S. WATTS: My year, I am claiming it. It is my year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question in this case is not who strangled Shanann. He has admitted to that.

S. WATTS: We do everything together.

WATTS: I left work early that morning. Barely got to bed.

S. WATTS: And we do everything together. Hit it. Harder. Harder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WEBBER, GUEST HOST, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW: Good evening everybody, this is Crime and Justice. I`m Jesse Webber in for Ashleigh Banfield. And

if there`s one other name that you need to know tonight, it`s Chris Watts.

He is the Colorado family man now behind bars accused of killing his pregnant wife and young daughters. Police say he dumped their bodies on

his work site. Stuffing his little girls into boil tanks. This is all before coming home to an empty house and telling everyone that his family

was missing, but there might be clues between that empty house and that work site that prove whether he is a cold-blooded killer who plotted his

own family`s murders or as Chris allegedly told police, a father who flew into a rage when he saw his wife strangling their daughters.

Tonight, we take a hard look at the clues that have come to the surface so far. Potentially revealing how this happened, how it was supposed to

happen, why it happened and whether Chris Watts will face the death penalty.

Joining me now, Kyle Peltz, a Crime and Justice Producer, Karen Smith, a forensic specialist and retired detective from the Jacksonville Sheriff`s

Office, James Gagliano, a CNN law enforcement analyst and a retired FBI supervisory agent. Thank you so much everybody. Kyle, I want to start

with you. What is the latest in the investigation? Because we`ve seen a lot of motions being filed.

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right, Jesse. Here we are a month after Chris Watts was arrested for the murder of his pregnant wife

and two daughters. And there`s still more questions than answers. If he really killed that whole family, why did he do it? And as you mentioned,

we got to look at the court docket today and there`s a lot of motions coming in that gives us an idea of what the defense is doing here.

WEBBER: There`s one motion that we got to talk about, because it doesn`t make a lot of sense. His team filed a motion to prohibit the sheriff`s

office from disclosing information about confidential jail visits. James, I am here with you, is that common? I mean, who could these visitors be?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure, you`re entitled to have whatever you want to visit when you are in jail, as long as they`re on the

list, but of course, who those people are of interest to law enforcement of course, because law enforcement use anything that can try to determine link

analysis. Who is he talking to? Who is he having relationships post potential crime and that is going to be a treasure-trove for law

enforcement.

WEBBER: I got to ask you the million dollar question. It`s believed he was engaged in an affair. Could someone -- one of those visitors be

someone that he had an affair with?

GAGLIANO: I think that would be fairly brazen. But has that occurred before? Yes. I can think a number of cases when that actually happens.

You always want to look closest to the person who they have the closest relationships with when you see a crime like this, which is a crime

probably of passion.

WEBBER: It is a very interesting crime to follow. We`re trying to get more answers because we had so many questions, including one of the most

eerie questions possible is how did these three people die? You know I am here again with Karen Smith. Karen, do we have any have idea? I know that

it has been a month since the autopsy was scheduled, there`s still no cause of death, but we can maybe understand some ways that these people might

have been killed. What do you think?

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, there`s been speculation and we do have Chris Watts saying that he did

strangle Shanann so I think that they`re using that with the two girls as well. We are going to have to wait for an additional cause of death before

we go any further with that, but based upon some reports, I am seeing that it is possible that the little girls were strangled as well, but we will

have to wait for the medical examiner to come out with an official autopsy before we saw anything further.

WEBER: You look at the time framed it is believed she came home almost close to 2:00 in the morning. He left around 5:00 something in the

morning, is it possible to commit these crimes in that time frame and dispose of their bodies?

SMITH: Yes, obviously. I don`t know quite the distance between the recovery site and the house, but law enforcement is going to go back the

first thing they`re going to do is backtrack the times. They`re going to use their timeline and going to make sure that they`re within a reasonable

amount of time for him to have committed this crime, take the bodies, placed them in the oil barrels, bury Shanann and then go back to the house.

[18:05:15] WEBBER: All right. Let us take a step back. We talk so much about Chris Watts. Kyle, he is in jail right now. He is been in jail for

almost a month if not over a month. How`s he doing?

PELTZ: Yes, that is right. There`s new reporting out today Jesse, from "People" magazine, I mean, the source that claims to have spoken to Chris

Watts, says he is not doing well at all. Apparently, the situation is hitting him like a ton of bricks and depression is setting in. And that is

according to "People" magazine.

WEBBER: Right and what does he do all day? He is not allowed access to a lot of the common things that everybody has access to, correct?

PELTZ: Right. According to people, he is sleeping all day as of now. But you know, we had spoken to a law enforcement source that Chris is alone in

his cell for 23 hours a day. He is under something that is called close watch, which is similar to suicide watch where he is check on every five or

10 minutes. And as far as his cell, that he is allowed access to, it`s pretty much the bare essentials.

WEBBER: OK. For anybody who is just joining us, the reason this case has taken such national attention is because of the statements from Mr. Watts

before he was arrested. And I want to play some of that for you right now. When his wife and two daughters went missing, he was so frantic about

calling her and texting her. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times you try calling her?

WATTS: I called her three times. Texted her about three times. Just to say you know, what`s going on, like after I called her and texted her once,

it`s like all right, maybe she was just busy. She had just gotten back. Like everybody`s probably calling her from her trip. She just got back

from Arizona. I figure she was busy, but when her friend showed up, it registered, like, this isn`t right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: All right. That is not it though. What did he say to the person that took his family? Did he want them back? Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: If you`re out there, just come back. Like if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see

everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here. Bring her back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: That man was arrested for the murder of his wife and two children. I`m here with Kirby Clemens. Kirby, for the defense, now they haven`t put

forth a plea yet, so my first question is it strange that there is no plea yet and two, if this ultimately goes to trial, how are they going to

explain those videos away?

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, no, it`s not unusual for the defense not to put forth a plea at this point, but we have to

figure out where the prosecution going, what is their overall goal and that is point number one. You got to see what you`re up against.

I mean, we know what they`re up against. We got to find out what the prosecution is offering and then at that point, you can come up with some

kind of counterproposal. I mean, if it`s too extreme. As to your second question and I apologize, but in terms of how did he get those videos?

Those are just very damaging videos. I mean I`ve got to be honest. Those are very damaging. Anytime your client goes on video sand saying something

like that then the evidence totally contradicts it, you`re stuck. You either have to go 100 percent with what`s on the video, and say that is our

defense, let us love us or leave us or you have to say, you know what, my client you know, you bypass a jury all together, and just plead guilty.

WEBBER: Well, I guess there`s a reason that you don`t talk to the media or anyone before speaking to your counsel. That video right there is probably

the most incriminating piece of evidence we`ve seen so far. I want to take a step back and talk about Shanann, because what we originally heard, what

we believe is that the defendant told police, we are speaking with his father that he only killed her because she was killing these two girls.

Let`s say play you a video of this young woman talking about 2018 and what this year means to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: 2018 is my year. I`m claiming it. It is my year. Everything I want for my family is happening in 2018. I just feel blessed that we can

do this. We can travel the world. One day, Chris can travel that long with us and I love that I can be there for them. We go everywhere together

and we do everything together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: All right. James, when you investigate these kinds of cases and you hear this claim that a husband killed his wife to protect the children

and you look at that video, is that evidence any which way that she is about to go off the deep end and kill her kids?

GAGLIANO: It is difficult to watch those videos. And then when you watch the video of Chris Watts out there in front of the media, I mean, it took a

level of hubris that Shakespeare would have been blown away about.

[18:10:05] There are no perfect crimes. And there is enough forensics evidence here and as to the point of the defense attorney had on earlier.

The amount of things that he said to the media, I mean, it didn`t take a behavioral analyst to look at this and pour coals on this. And what is

going to happen is, he is already lied once, right? Initially put out that he did not know where his wife and two daughters were, then it was, well,

OK, now that you`ve found the bodies, this is how it happened. He started backtracking. So it`s going to be very difficult to get out of and I think

police are sitting in a pretty good position right here with the forensic evidence they have, as well as the human intelligence they`ve collected to

put together a pretty solid case here.

WEBBER: We talked so much about the details of this case. The legal implication, but there`s a human factor that we can`t deny. I want to show

that right now. Because this is young Bella. OK. This is a face of somebody that was taken way before her time. I want to play some video of

her as a happy child.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELLA WATTS, DAUGHTER OF CHRIS AND SHANANN WATTS: My daddy is a hero, he helps me grow up strong, and he helps me he reads me books, he ties my

shoes. If you`re a hero through and through, my daddy, daddy I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: Wow that is a 4-year-old girl along with her 3-year-old sister and her mother. Who will never make any videos ever again and what we`re

trying to do is understand why. We have a lot more to talk about with this case. So I want to tell Kyle, Karen, James, Kirby, I need you all to stick

around. We`re not quite finished on the Watts case. There were reports saying that Chris Watts may have been cleaning up evidence in the hours

following the disappearance of his wife and daughters, but does that equate to premeditation? We`ll talk about it. That is next.

[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: Did you have fun? Say good night, everybody.

B. WATTS: Good night everybody.

S. WATTS: Over the couch. What are you doing?

B. WATTS: I miss you.

S. WATTS: Going to give Chris a little bit because I don`t think I want to share this. What do you want? You want another brother or sister?

B. WATTS: Sister.

S. WATTS: My kids are happy. My kids want me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: We`re still talking about the Watts family. Once known by friends for their Facebook videos, which welcomed others into their happy home

life, but now, they`re known nationwide for their deaths. Chris Watts is accused of killing his pregnant wife and daughters. Hiding their bodies

and lying about it. And Chris allegedly told police his wife Shanann is the one who killed the kids, but does the evidence stack up? My panel is

back with me. All right. Kyle, I`m going start with you. The collection of evidence in this case is huge. What is the latest that we have learned

about that?

PELTZ: Right. So "People" magazine has been reporting that there was plenty of evidence that was found on every day from bedding to clothes,

computers, phones. Apparently, there were even text messages and search histories that were not deleted. But one thing we know that authorities

have for sure is a bed sheet that they found in the field near the oil tanks and they also recovered pillow cases and a sheet from the kitchen

trash can of the Watts home.

WEBBER: Yes, I know that was in the warrant list arrest affidavit that described that, the collection of the evidence and how that matches up to

the crime scene. That is not the only thing that we`ve seen as well. We`ve also seen that there`s a, court documents mention numerous items of

evidence that are being tested and this is from talking about swabs. During the course of this investigation, numerous items of evidence have

been collected and the process of being sent to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for testing.

Karen, what does this mean? Because this is the weird part about it. If they want to really test Chris Watts and do buckle swabs and things of that

nature, if they test him today, how does that conflict with an event that happened over a month ago? Isn`t there some sort of a problem there?

SMITH: No, there`s not. And you know the motion that was filed this week tells me that Chris Watts was not willing to voluntarily submit his buckle

swab or his DNA and his fingerprints, so apparently, either the lab already has something or expects to have something to use as a reference sample.

That is what they need this for is a reference sample.

So, DNA as long as it is stored properly can last a long time, so they`re just putting their ducks in a row. They`re getting a paper trail ready.

And what they`re going to do is submit his buckle swab to the lab and have them run those comparison samples from maybe the bed sheet, perhaps they

got DNA from the necks of the victims. It`s hard to say at this point, but whatever they have already, they`re going run that reference sample against

it and see if it comes back to Chris Watts.

WEBBER: James, I am confuse, shouldn`t they have done this at the beginning?

GAGLIANO: Not necessarily. Every investigation has a particular set of schematics that you have to work through.

[18:20:03] I think the interesting thing here is, I believe in the United States, the first DNA case where somebody was charged on DNA evidence and

convicted was in 1987. Important to know, also, off recent, the Golden State killer case, this was a person that was committing crimes and killing

people from `74 to 1986. He was just indicted on that same evidence this past year.

So to Karen`s point, the DNA evidence they`ll put away, it`s harvested. They`ll have that at their veils, as they work through this. The

concerning part is, he is a family member. There`s going to be hair and fibers on each of those bodies of normal. Which would be a normal thing.

And that is going to be the difficult part to discern if it happen during the crime itself.

WEBBER: You know what`s not normal? There was reports that he was seen on camera loading bags in a gas can into a truck. Karen, from your

perspective, back to your forensic perspective, what initially piques your interest when I said that?

SMITH: Well, the time for sure. When he was doing this was immediately after, you know, Shanann had gone missing. So having bags and a gas can

inside a truck, I mean, these all to me, point toward premeditated murder. They all point to the fact that he had planned this out. This was

something that he had already prepped his truck. He already backed it into the driveway.

You know, a lot of people don`t back their trucks in the driveway. They pull it in the driveway. So, these kinds of things are just little teeny

circumstantial pieces of evidence that all lead down to same pathway that Chris Watts really has lot of explaining to do especially after going on

television and talking about not knowing where Shanann and the children were.

WEBBER: Kirby, is that evidence of premeditation alone?

CLEMENTS: No, I think what it is, is just guessing. Because no one knows whether those things that they saw were somehow linked to the crime. Until

you make that connection, it`s just speculation. Even as for backing the truck in, did he regularly back his truck in? Was that unusual? So, we

can try to draw a story where a conclusion is based on what we think fits. But, I mean, that is not the case at all, I mean there is no getting around

what we have already, but that other stuff, no, it`s not evidence of premeditation, just a guess!

WEBBER: Loading bags, gas can. Right before this happened I know garbage clean-up was the next day. Which is interesting because if it happens, all

that evidence might had been disappeared, so, this all happened on a Monday. Trash day was on a Tuesday and he was arrested Wednesday night.

Kyle, there`s really inconsistencies in Chris Watts` statement, correct? What have we learned as this investigations keeps coming forward? That

some of the things he said were not entirely accurate?

PELTZ: Right and I call a meeting, you get three interviews with the local news the day after his family was reported missing. In one of them, he

said that maybe someone took his wife through the backyard and another one, he suggests maybe someone took her, but he says he doesn`t want the suggest

anything. Another inconsistency is about cameras. In one interview, Chris -- he seems to say to reporters that cameras and neighbors didn`t see

anything.

WEBBER: Kyle, let`s show that right now. So, Chris Watts is about to explain about cameras and how there`s no cameras anywhere. And this is

what he says. No, we have a camera there. Neighbor has a camera. Everything`s checked out. There`s really nothing to say, nothing for us to

see, but there`s -- doesn`t that conflicts with something else that we see. From the arrest affidavit on the cameras. It says and I don`t know if we

can put that up there, because it really contradicts everything we just saw. This is again if we`re trying to understand was Chris Watts being

truthful. The neighbor, no home video surveillance shows Nicole`s vehicle leaving at 1:48 a.m. at 5:27 a.m., Chris` truck was observed backing into

the driveway and leaving a short time later. James, that looks like a really bad inconsistency for Mr. Watts in this investigation.

GAGLIANO: Yes, the timeline is going to be critical here. The distances and what vehicles came out. And look, 21st century technology means you

can`t do anything today without having a digital platform. The digital exhaust. When you open up your laptop or when you sign on to your home

security system. Or when you use your easy pass or drive pass or license plate recorder. Police are going to piece all these together. These are

pieces, they`re going keep pulling on the threads and that thread is going to lead to an unraveling of the story and probably going to lead to his

conviction.

WEBBER: We talk about whether something is suspicious or coincidental. We talked about earlier that he is alleged to have this camera captured him --

captured -- excuse me, Shanann coming home at 1:48 a.m. When Chris Watts was interviewed, listen to what time he said Shanann came home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came back Sunday (inaudible).

WATTS: Yes, because her flight got delayed from Arizona because like other storms around the nation. She was supposed to get home at 11:00. She got

home like about 1:48. I left for work early that morning, like 5:15, 5:30. She is like, she barely got into bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:25:13] WEBBER: All right. Kirby. If that is presented in a courtroom, the fact that he knew the exact time that camera captured, her

coming home that is strange. I don`t know what a jury`s going to think about that.

CLEMENTS: You know, and that is the difficulty with a case like this. I mean, quite honestly, as a defense lawyer, you have to hope the state`s not

going to seek the death penalty and then you`re in some for the game. Otherwise, you`re just gaming with the system, but to call that time-out

1:48 and that is the time that we know is there, that does -- that is a problem. I mean, quite honestly, this guy is his own worst enemy. If he

just kept his mouth shut, things would probably be looking a little bit differently. But he keeps saying stuff. Contradicting himself. Exposing

himself, it`s not a good situation for the defense.

WEBBER: All right, Kirby. You mentioned the death penalty, excuse me. This has to be a death penalty prone case. You tell me. What does the

prosecution need to make this a death penalty worthy case or will they not go for the death penalty, you tell me?

CLEMENTS: As a former prosecutor, I did handle the death penalty case at the time, I can tell you, with three dead bodies, a woman and two children,

the way that the bodies were disposed of, the prosecution actually can make a compelling case to seek the death penalty. Depending on what the

aggravating factors are under the law of that state. Obviously, as a defense lawyer, I would ask that they not seek the death penalty, but given

what we have right now, I mean, this is somewhat of you know, a mini mass murder. I mean, there are three dead people. So the prosecution has

enough I think to go forward with that.

WEBBER: You know, talking so much about this case in the media. Kyle, last question to you. I don`t have a ton of time, but I got to ask, Chris

Watts is not happy about the leaks to the press. Correct?

PELTZ: Right. Last week, he filed a motion asking for essentially a massive investigation into the source of leaks to the media. We don`t know

exactly what specific leaks he is referring to or what he doesn`t want out there, but there`s been a lot of information that had come out from various

law enforcement source. Looking through the docket today, it appears that request by Chris Watts has been denied.

WEBBER: Yes. That was a big claim to make. I`m not sure I`ve seen anything like that, asking the government to open up an investigation into

these leaks. I mean, everyone`s covering this and rightfully so, but that was a big claim. It was denied. This back and forth with the motions and

each day presents new evidence about what happened to these three people and the more, the condition of Chris Watts, but everyone, I need everyone

to please stick around, because when we come back, we`re turning again to our Facebook community who are still asking about that interview with Chris

Watts on his front porch. What else can we learn about him from those interviews? That is next.

[18:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eight years later, we have two kids. We live in Colorado.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looks at Shannan and Chris, they just immediate thought it was love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is the best that has ever happened to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way that she looked at him and the way that he looked at her --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sickened that a parent could do that to his children and to his wife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WEBER, HOST, HLN: The questions abound in this case because even as we get new details about the crime scenes and the evidence, we still don`t

know exactly how the Watts girls died. And if Chris is the one who did it, how could he have gone from family man to accused murderer? Fortunately, we

have you tracking this case along with us, weighing in with questions that narrow down the dark possibilities.

All right, I want to start with our first one. This is from Sylvie Poilan (ph). Sylvie (ph), I apologize if I messed up your last name, but you have

a great question.

The question is, I think he killed his wife then took her hands under his hands and choked the girls that`s why he is saying that. What do you think?

Karen Smith, what do you think?

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I think that`s highly improbable. I mean, it`s a little fantastical to think that

you would use your wife`s hands under your hands if you think that it`s going exonerate you from such a heinous crime.

You know, I don`t put it past anybody. Anything is possible in crime scene investigations and forensics. However, I think at this point, police are

looking at DNA. They`re looking at bruise marks. They`re looking at different forensic aspects to this case rather than trying to place

Shannan`s hands under his hands on these children`s necks.

WEBER: I assume that question was asked because of the defense`s motion to try to get evidence from these girls` necks into -- and find out who`s DNA

was on those necks. So, it`s an interesting question.

Next one is another good one. This is from Starla Regan Busby (ph). If Chris Watts killed his wife for supposedly killing their daughters, why

would he just not call the police and explain? How could he put his deceased daughters in oil tanks if he loved them? A difficult question,

James, but I got to ask you. What do you think?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure. And sometimes, we look at people like this when we go, why didn`t they do this or why didn`t they

do that? And sometimes, evil does things that you can`t explain.

[18:34:59] If a person is a sociopath or psychopath, they could do something like this. It`s incomprehensible maybe to the rest of us. Most

people would say, why wouldn`t he just get a divorce if he didn`t want to be there? Why didn`t he just leave his wife and children?

But, obviously, he got into a heated argument, it appears, killed his wife, and then tried to figure out a way to clean the mess up and unfortunately,

there are no perfect crimes and that`s what`s going to help unravel this, I believe.

WEBER: In order, James, it`s impossible to explain human behavior at times?

GAGLIANO: Yes.

WEBER: Yup. I think that`s the best way to explain it, we see a lot in here. Next one is a very good question and I`m sure a lot of you have

wondered. This is from Jeanette Hartman (ph). Why do you think Chris Watts was almost laughing or trying to hold back a laugh while giving interviews

on the porch?

Let`s play a little bit of what this -- what Ms. Hartman (ph) is talking about right there. This is from Chris Watts` interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Did you guys get into an argument before she left?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t like an argument. We had an emotional conversation, but I`ll leave it at that. But it`s -- I just want them back.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want them to come back. And if they`re not safe right now, that`s what`s tearing me apart, because if they are safe,

they`re coming back. But if they`re not, this has got to stop, like somebody has to come forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEBER: That little smile, that little smirk. Kirby, can you explain it? I -- imagine we`re the jury right now. We`re the jury. We`re all the jury.

Explain that for us, please.

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all I can say is, as you said earlier, there`s no explaining human behavior. That`s first point. But the

second point is that he was attempting to try to convey some sense of normalcy.

He wasn`t laughing at the fact they were dead. He wasn`t laughing at the fact that he killed them or any of those things. He wasn`t laughing about

the tragedy. That was just an affect that he put on. And it may be -- it may be, you know, alarming to some, but it doesn`t mean the nefarious

things that people try to spin it into meaning. That`s what I have to say.

WEBER: Yeah, maybe, maybe not. We`ll have to see. But it is something to watch. People have been studying that interview countless hours, trying to

understand every detail, looking into his eyes and rightfully so, because he`s been charged with the murder of his wife and two girls.

We have another question, and this one is a very, very good one. This is from Keena Dasilva. I noticed in Watts` court appearance that he`s wearing

glasses, but how are prison guards not worried he`ll try to kill himself with the glass from his eyeglasses? Couldn`t he easily break them and use

the piece of the glass to slit his wrists or throat?

Kyle, I know you`ve been studying and reading up about his condition and what his daily life is like. So what would you say to Ms. Dasilva?

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER (via telephone): Right. Well, as we know, he`s basically on suicide watch behind bars. He is checked on every

five minutes, maybe every 10 minutes. Even his bedding, according to our source, could be modified for reasons, safety reasons, to make sure he

doesn`t hurt himself. So, I think it`s plausible that he doesn`t have his glasses behind bars.

WEBER: James, back to you. Is this common? Have you seen people in Mr. Watts` position make the ultimate move there? I mean, I`m thinking of the

Aaron Hernandez case. That`s a very different scenario, but again, you got to worry about this, right?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. And eyeglasses could be used as a weapon to hurt himself. Every institution has different rules, but generally speaking, if

you`re wearing eyeglasses, when you get sentenced, you`re allowed to take them into jail with you. That`s generally the rule of thumb there.

And yes, I would imagine that if he`s not on suicide watch, they have been just short of that, meaning he needs to be monitored 24/7. A person like

this is in administrative segregation because other inmates might want to try to hurt him and obviously him being a danger to himself has got to be

something that law enforcement be concerned with.

WEBER: I`m wondering if that`s why they took away all the reading material, weights. He is not allowed to do anything. Is that one of the

reasons why?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. They don`t want to give him anything they could possibly use to hurt himself. They`re going to have cameras monitoring him

while he`s inside the jail cell. And he`s in there for 23 hours a day. Probably brought outside for fresh air one hour a day.

WEBER: All right, everybody, thank you so much for your great questions. We want to keep them coming because this is a case that really need that

discussion. So, we will play more of your question. We will answer them. We have experts always to talk about it.

Karen Smith, Kyle Peltz, thank you. James Gagliano, Kirby Clements, please stick around.

A disgraced former family values state senator finally learns his fate. Ralph Shortey was sentenced today on child sex trafficking charges. We`ll

speak with his defense attorney and see what newly released documents reveal, next.

[18:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEBER: The story was disturbing from the get go. When Oklahoma police found a married state senator in a motel room with a teenage boy. But now,

even more disturbing details are surfacing just as Ralph Shortey learns his fate.

The disgraced former senator and church volunteer will now be spending the next 15 years behind bars. This is after spending time hooking up and

smoking weed with a 17-year-old victim. That is before the cops came knocking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(KNOCKING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Let`s go, open up the door so we can talk to you.

[18:45:02] What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): May I ask why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, because you have a juvenile in your hotel room. OK, open the door and we`ll talk to you real quick and we`ll be done. We`re

not worried about a little bit on weed. What we`re worried is you having a juvenile in there. Yeah, this one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEBER: Now, that wasn`t the first time that Senator Shortey got one-on-one time with the boy with whom he reportedly had sex multiple other times.

Though Shortey`s child porn charges were dismissed in a plea deal earlier this year, Shortey was sentenced today for child sex trafficking. This is

just as we see newly unsealed documents and photo evidence of what he did.

Joining me now, Scott Mitchell, host of "Mitchell Talks." Ed Blau, defense attorney for Ralph Shortey. And back again with me, James Gagliano, CNN law

enforcement analyst. And defense attorney, Kirby Clements. All right, Scott, I want to start with you. What happened in court today?

SCOTT MITCHELL, HOST, "MITCHELL TALKS" (via telephone): Well, looks like sentence about 15 years. Reports are 12 years probably to do. And it just

is the latest story in this saga that was started with the videotape. It becomes not only news, but there`s politics. This is, you know, politics is

a blood sport and that`s what heightened the interest in this. And it`s a big sentence today.

WEBER: That is a big sentence. So, Ed, I want to turn to you. You could -- this is a 15-year sentence. The minimum was 10. The maximum was life. How

do you and your client feel about it?

ED BLAU, ATTORNEY FOR RALPH SHORTEY: Anytime a client gets sentenced to prison, I mean, it`s difficult. The government -- they have requested a

sentence within the sentencing guidelines. Meaning, anywhere between 24 and 30 years.

The judge at sentencing took into account my client`s significant mitigation. Nobody ever knew this before, but he grew up in extraordinarily

difficult circumstances. He lived on a native American -- in South Dakota.

He was abused himself both physically, sexually, and emotionally. He was actually shot by his older brother when he was three years old. That was

one of his first conscious memories. He actually saw his mother beaten with the tire iron. And he and his 8-year-old sister when he was 10 actually had

to drive his mother to the hospital.

So, all of that childhood trauma stayed with him. It was trauma that he never dealt with. Trauma that he never let anybody know about. But once he

actually achieved a certain level of prominence, that`s when all of those old demons caught back up with him and that`s what, in my opinion, caused

him to engage in this extraordinarily self-destructive behavior.

WEBER: Yes, maybe, but this is a little strange because one of the things that we saw is all these documents came forward and I want to show this

right now. There was a series of documents about the Craigslist ads. I want to put the first one up. It`s about him being a 34-year-old professional. I

like for our viewers to see that if we can.

"I`m 34 professional married guy looking for a boy. I guess I`m a daddy type and would love to have a boy to play with and take care of a little on

the side."

OK, let`s play a little bit more of this though because it gets a little worse. If you`re interested in my wife -- I want to play that one too if we

have that -- OK, because he talks about his wife now. "If you`re interested in my wife joining in the future, that might be a possibility also, 420

friendly."

And then, there`s one more that I really want everyone to see. It says, "I`m married and she knows I`m bi but I`d really like this to just be

between us."

OK, so, Ed, my question is, he has continued to say that he is a religiously devout individual and his religion is helping him through this

process. How do you reconcile those messages with him being a family values senator who is very into religion? I`m not sure I`m making that connection.

BLAU: First off, far be it from me to be able to reconcile behavior like that. That is not my job in this particular case. In looking at what he

said to the judge today, he expressed remorse and he indicated that his faith has helped him through this.

I cannot say one way or another what`s truly in his heart. All I can say is that he is, his to me into the court today shown tremendous remorse for

what he did, for what he put his family through, and for what he put this young man through.

[18:49:57] WEBER: OK, you might not be able to explain that, but maybe you can help explain his intentions, because those messages about his wife,

what did he mean by bringing her in?

BLAU: That I don`t know. He and I never talked about the exact specifics of the messages that were sent out.

WEBER: I mean, there`s some explaining to do there, and I want to explain more about him in a second, but I want to turn now to James, because,

James, we`re talking so much about Ralph Shortey, but the victim here, the 17-year-old victim, there was a discrepancy between what he told state

police and what he told the FBI.

First, he told the state police that, no, we never touched, nothing ever happened. Then he tells the FBI, OK, we kissed. Then he tells the FBI,

well, we kissed then we started to undress. And then we later learned that, oh, we had sex several times in the past.

So, from your perspective investigating this matter, how do you take a victim here and try to get to the truth when this person has given

inconsistent statements?

GAGLIANO: This is something we see a lot because a lot of times, victims will attempt to downplay what the person who is committing the crime

actually did to them. It`s almost a sense sort of a Stockholm syndrome type of thing.

Listen, this victim was 17 years old. Now, somebody would argue and say, well, that`s the age of consent. Yes, but in working in this type of sex

trafficking type of business, answering this Craigslist ad like that, that`s where he goes on to the other side of the law.

And my issues with this, look, the attorney tried to explain this. I understand his job is to be a good advocate for this man. This man is

entitled to due process. He is entitled to, you know, fairness going forward.

But this is the classic abuse excuse, so it`s the abuse excuse pair dime (ph) which is, I`m going to explain the bad behavior that I`m doing because

things happened to me when I was younger.

Look, this man is in his 30s. This man is an elected official. He should be held to a higher standard. And I trust that he is probably going to end up

cutting a plea deal is what my guess is going to be here.

WEBER: Well, with 15 years in prison, that`s not -- yeah, he already pled guilty. He was sentenced to 15 years. And this is -- we`re going to talk

more about the outcome of that in a second, but everyone, please stick around.

Despite the sentencing, though, this story is far from over. There`s new information still coming out in court filings, and we`ll take a look at all

of it. That`s next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEBER: We`re still talking about Ralph Shortey, the once married state senator, family values lawmaker, and bible college grad, who spent his time

working with kids. Well, this is all before police found him in a messy hotel room with marijuana, condoms, and a 17-year-old boy. When prosecutors

started digging into his online activity, what they found was even worse. Now, he`ll be paying the price.

My panel is back with me, and I want to start right now with Ed Blau. This is the attorney for Ralph Shortey. One of the things that we saw in all

these new documents coming forward is that there was a series of postings by Mr. Shorty trying to initiate group sex with the 17-year-old boy, and

that he was trying to ask for sex when he was on trip to D.C.

What can you explain about it? What can we learn about this from this man? I mean, again, he`s living one life, and then he`s leading a completely

different life.

BLAU: Clearly, he was wrong in doing that. That`s why he pled guilty and that`s why he`s going to be spending the next 12 years in prison. It really

is inexplicable. He`s going to have a lot of time to be able to think about that and try to figure that out.

WEBER: He`s married, has four kids. I can only imagine, but what is that relationship like?

BLAU: Well, he and his wife are divorced. They got divorced a few months ago. His kids, he still talks with them on a weekly basis. And when he gets

to a facility, he is going to have regular visits with them. By all accounts given everything else that we`ve seen, he`s actually a very good

father.

WEBER: And I believe that they changed their last names for security and privacy reasons. Do you -- is there an effort to try to get him out of

prison earlier? I know 15 years is what he was sentenced to, 10 was a minimum. Is there any effort on your part?

BLAU: In the federal system, obviously, you have to serve 85 percent of your time. And he`ll get some good credits if he does the sex offender

programs within the Bureau of Prisons. But beyond that, the Bureau of Prisons is pretty strict about when somebody gets released.

WEBER: Yeah. And this is definitely one to watch and definitely something to see if he should ever get released. Another politician leading a double

life. All right, everybody, it`s a heavy case.

I want to thank you all for your input. Scott Mitchell, appreciate you joining us. James Gagliano, Kirby Clements, we`ll see you both.

The next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): What will his defense be?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Hi, beautiful.

Sitting there playing with daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He uses the words "those girls." Already, you know, saw him as dad.

[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is his trained alert or indication to say, hey, I smell human remain scent in this area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the heart, I believe that she`s somewhere, like, I want them back now.

SHANNAN WATTS, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: My year, I`m planning it. It is my year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question in this case is not who strangling Shanann, he`s admitted to that.

SHANNAN WATTS: We go every where together.

CHRIS WATTS: I left work early that morning. She barley gotten to bed pretty much.

SHANNAN WATTS: and we do everything together.

CHRIS WATTS: Hit it.

SHANNAN WATTS: Harder.

CHRIS WATTS: Harder

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSIE WEBBER, CRIME AND JUSTICE, HOST: Good evening, everybody. This is Crime and Justice. I`m Jessie Webber and for Ashley Bandfield. And if

there`s one other name that you need to know tonight, it`s Chris Watts. He`s the Colorado family man how behind bars accused of killing his

pregnant wife and young daughters. Police say he dumped their bodies on his work site, stuffing his little girls into oil tanks. This is all before

coming home to an empty house and telling everyone that his family was missing. But there might be clues between that empty house and that work

site that prove whether he`s a cold-blooded killer who plotted his own family`s murders or, as Chris allegedly told police, a father who flew into

a rage when he saw his wife strangling their daughters.

Tonight, we take a hard look at the clues that have come to the surface so far, potentially revealing how this happened, how it was supposed to

happen, why it happened, and whether Chris Watts will face the death penalty.

Joining me now, Kyle Pelts, a crime and justice producer, Karen Smith, a forensic specialist and retired detective from the Jacksonville Sheriff`s

Office, and James Galiano, a CNN Law enforcement analyst and Retired FBI supervisory special agent. Thank you so much, everybody.

Kyle, I want to start with you. What is the latest in the investigation? Because we`ve seen a lot of motions being filed.

KYLE PELTS, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right Jessie. Here we are a month after Chris Watts was arrested for the murder of pregnant wife and

two daughters, and there`re more questions than answers, if he really killed that whole family, why did he do it. And as you mentioned, we got

to look at the court docket today, and there`s a lot of motions coming in that give us an idea of what the defense is doing here.

WEBBER: Well, there`s one motion we got to talk about because it does not make a lot of sense. The -- his team filed a motion to prohibit the

sheriff`s office from disclosing information about confidential jail visits. James, is that common? Who could the visitors be?

JAMES GALIANO, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Sure. Well you`re entitled to have whoever you want visit you as long as they are on the

list, but of course who those people are -- are of interest to law enforcement, of course because law enforcement has used anything they can

to try determine what we call link analysis, who is he talking to? Who is he having relationships, post potential crime, and that is going to be a

treasure-trove for law enforcement

WEBBER: I have to ask the million-dollar question. It is believed he was engaged in an affair. Could someone, that someone, one of the visitors be

someone that he had an affair with?

GALIANO: I think that would be fairly brazen, but has it occurred before? Yes I can think of a number of cases where that`s actually happened. You

always want to look closest to the person, who they have the closest relationships with when you see a crime like this, a crime probably of

passion.

WEBBER: And it`s very interesting crime to follow, and we`re trying to get more answers because we have so many questions including one of the

most eerie questions possible is how did the three people die? You know, I`m here again with Karen Smith. Karen, do we have any idea? I know that

it`s been a month since the autopsy was scheduled. There`s still no cause of death, but we can maybe understand some ways the people might have been

killed. What do you think?

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, there`s been speculation, and we do have Chris Watts saying he did strangle

Shanann so they are using that with the two girls as well. We are going to have to wait for an official cause of death before going further with that,

but based upon some reports, it is possible that the little girls were strangled as well. But we will wait for the medical examiner to come out

with an official autopsy before we say anything further.

WEBBER: When you look at the time frame, it`s believed that she came home almost close to 2:00 in the morning. He left around 5:00 something in the

morning. Is it possible to commit these crimes in that time frame and dispose of the body?

SMITH: Yes. Obviously, yes. I don`t know quite the distance between the recovery site and the house, but law enforcement is going to go back. The

first thing were going to do backtrack the times. Their going to use their time line and their going to make sure that their within a reasonable

amount of time for him to have committed the crime, take the bodies, place them in the oil barrels, bury Shanann and go back to the house.

WEBBER: All right. Let`s take a step back. We talk so much about Chris Watts. Kyle, he`s in jail right now, has been for almost a month, if not

over a month. How is he doing?

PELTS: Yes, That`s right. There`s new reporting out today from People" Magazine, and a source claims to have spoken to Chris Watts says he`s not

doing well at all. Apparently, the situation is hitting him like a ton of bricks and depression is setting in and that`s according to People

Magazine.

WEBBER: Right. And what`s he do all day? He`s not allowed access to a lot of the common things that everybody has access to, correct?

PELTS: Right. Well according to People he`s sleeping all day as of now, but you know we spoke to a law enforcement source that Chris is alone in

the cell for 23 hours a day. He`s under something called close watch, which is similar to suicide watch, where he gets checked on every five to ten

minutes. And as far as the cell and allowed access, it`s the bear essentials.

WEBBER: Okay. So for anybody who`s just joining us, the reason this case is taking such national attention is because of the statements from Mr.

Watts before he was arrested. I want to play some of that for you right now. When his wife and two daughters went missing, he was so frantic about

calling her and texting her. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times have you tried calling her?

CHRIS WATTS: I called her three times, texted her about three times just to say, you know, what`s going on? like, after that, after I called her and

texted her once, like, all right, maybe she was just busy, like, she just got back, you know, like everybody`s calling her from the trip, just got

back from Arizona, and I figured she was just busy, but when her friend showed up, that`s when I was, like, oh, it registered, like, all right,

this is not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: All right. That`s (INAUDIBLE) though. What did he say to the person that took his family? Did he want them back? Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WATTS: If you`re out there, just come back. Like, somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see

everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring her back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WATTS: That man was arrested for the murder of his wife and two children. I`m here with Kirby Clemens. Kirby, for the defense, now, they

haven`t been put forward a plea yet, so my first question is, is it strange that there`s no plea yet, and, two, if this ultimately goes to trial, how

are they going to explain those videos away?

KIRBY CLEMENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well first of all. No it`s not unusual fortunate defense not to put forth a plea at this point. But we have to

figure out where all the prosecution going, what is their overall goal, and that`s point number one. You have to see what you are up against. I mean,

we know what they are up against and we have to learn what the prosecution is offering, and then, at that point, come up with some counter proposal,

if it`s too extreme.

And then as to the second question that I apologize, but in terms of how do you know the videos? Those are just very damaging videos. I mean, I just

got to be honest. They are damaging. Any time your client is on video and says something like that and the evidence contradicts it, you`re stuck. Go

100 percent with the video and say that`s the defense, love us or leave us or say, you know, my client, you know, we throw ourselves on the mercy of

the court and bypass the jury and plead guilty.

WEBBER: Well, I guess there`s a reason you don`t talk to the media or anyone before speaking to counsel, that video right there is probably the

most incriminating piece of evidence seen so far. I want to take a step back and talk about Shanann because what we heard and believe is that the

defendant told police after speaking with his father that he only killed her because she was killing these two girls. Well, let`s play you a quick

video of this young woman talking about 2018 and what this year means to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNAN WATTS: 2018 is my year, I`m claiming it. It is my year. Everything I want for my family is happening in 2018 or to feel blessed

that we can do that. We can travel the world, and one day Chris can travel that long with us, and I love the fact that I can be there for them. We go

everywhere together. And we do everything together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: All right. James, when you investigate these kinds of cases, and you hear this claim that a husband killed his wife to protect the children

and you look at that video, is that evidence any which way she`s about to go off the deep end and kill her kids?

GALIANO: Sure, difficult to watch those videos, and then to watch the video of Chris Watts out there in front of the media. I mean it took a

level of hubris that Shakespeare would have been blown away about. There are no perfect crimes and there`s enough forensic evidence here, and as to

the point of the defense attorney you had on earlier, the amount of things that he said to the media, I mean, it does not take a behavioral analyst to

look at this and poke holes in this.

And what`s going to happen is he`s already lied once, right? Initially, he put out he did not know where his wife and two daughters were. Then it was

well okay, now that you found the bodies, this is how it happened, and he started backtracking. So he has spun a yarn. it`s going to be very

difficult to get out of it, and I think police are sitting pretty good position right here with the forensic evidence they have as well as human

intelligence collected to put together a solid case here.

WEBBER: We talk so much about the details of the case, the legal implication, but there`s a human factor that we cannot deny, and I want to

show that right now because this is young Bella, OK? This is a face of somebody that was taken way before her time, and I want to play some video

of her as a happy child.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELLA WATTS: My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He reads me books. He ties my shoes. And you`re a hero, through and through, my

daddy. Daddy is I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: Wow. That`s a 4-year-old girl along with her 3-year-old sister, and her mother who will never make any videos ever again, and what we`re

trying to do is understand why. We have a lot more to talk about with this case. So, I want to tell Kyle, Karen, James, Kirby, I need you all to

stick around. We`re not quite finished on the Watts` case.

There were reports saying that Chris Watts may have been cleaning up evidence in the hours following the disappearance of his wife and

daughters. But does that equate to premeditation? We`ll talk about it. That`s Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNAN WATTS: Is that fun? Did you have fun?

BELLA WATTS: Hi everybody.

SHANNAN WATTS: Say good night, everybody.

BELLA WATTS: Goodnight everybody.

SHANNAN WATTS: We`re having fun, That`s all it matters.

CHRIS WATTS: Hot dog, hot diggity dog.

SHANNAN WATTS: Crashed over the couch, kid. What are you doing?

BELLA WATTS: I miss you.

SHANNAN WATTS: Only going to give Chris a little bit, because I don`t think I`m going to want to share this. What do you want? Do you want

another brother or sister?

BELLA WATTS: Sister.

SHANNAN WATTS: My kids are happy. They love me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: We`re still talking about the Watts family once known my friends for Facebook videos that welcomed others into the happy home life. But now

they are known nationwide for their deaths. Chris Watts is accused of killing his pregnant wife and daughters, hiding their bodies, and lying

about it, and Chris allegedly told police his wife is the one who killed the kids, but does the evidence stack up? My panel is back with me.

All right. Kyle, I want to start with you. The collection of evidence in this case is huge. What`s the latest we`ve learn about that?

PELTS: Right. so People Magazine`s has been reporting there`s plenty of evidence that was found on everything from bedding to clothes, computers,

phones, apparently even there were even text messages and search histories that were not deleted, but one thing we know that authorities have for sure

is a bed sheet that they found in the field near the oil tanks, and they also recovered pillow cases and a sheet from the kitchen trash can of the

Watts` home.

WEBBER: Yes, I know that was in the warrant arrest affidavit that described that, the collection of evidence and how it matches up to the

crime scene. That`s not the only thing that we`ve seen as well. We`ve also seen there`s -- court documents mention numerous items of evidence being

tested, and this is from talking about swabs. During the course of the investigation, numerous items of evidence have been collected or in the

process of being sent to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for testing. Karen, what does this mean because this is the weird part about it? If

they want to really test Chris Watts and do buckle swabs and things of that nature, if they test him today, how does that conflict with an event from a

month ago? Isn`t there a problem there?

SMITH: No. There`s not. And, you know, the motion that was filed this week tells me Chris Watts was not willing to voluntarily submit his Buckle

Swab or his DNA and his finger prints so apparently either the lab already has something or expects to have something to use as a reference sample.

That`s what they need it for, a reference sample. DNA as long as it`s stored properly, lasts a long time. So they`re just putting their ducks in

a row. Their getting a paper trail ready and what their going to do is submit his buckle swab to the lab and have them run comparison samples from

maybe the bed sheet or perhaps they got DNA from the necks of the victims. It`s hard to say at this point, but whatever they have already they run

that sample against it and see if it comes back to Chris Watts.

WEBBER: James, I`m confused. Shouldn`t they have done this at the beginning?

GALIANO: Not necessarily. I mean, every investigation has a particular set of schematics you have to work through. I think the interesting thing

here is I believe in the united states the first DNA case someone charged on DNA evidence and convicted was in 1987. Important to know, also, of

recent, the Golden State Killer case, this was a person that was committing crimes and killing people from `74 to 1986.

He was just indicted on that same evidence this past year, so to Karen`s point, the DNA evidence they`ll puts away, it`s harvested. They`ll have

that at their veils. They work through this. The concerning part is he`s family member. There`s going to be hair and fibers on each of those bodies

abnormal which will be normal thing, and that`s going to be the difficult to discern if it happened in the crime itself.

WEBBER: Do you it`s not normal that he was - there was reports he was on camera loading bags in a gas can in a truck. Karen, from your perspective,

back to you a forensic perspective, what initially piques your interest when I said that?

SMITH: Well, the time, for sure, when he was doing this was immediately after you know, Shanann she had gone missing, so having bags and a gas can

inside a truck, I mean, these all, to me, point towards premeditated murder. They all point to the fact he planned it out.

This was something that he had already prepped his truck. He had backed it in the drive way. You know, a lot of people don`t back the trucks into the

driveway, but pull it in. So these kinds of things are just little tiny circumstantial pieces of evidence that all lead down the same pathway that

Chris Watts really has a lot of explaining to do especially after going on television and talking about not knowing where she and the children were.

WEBBER: Kirby, is Karen right? Is that evidence of premeditation alone?

CLEMENS: No. It`s just guessing. Because no one knows whether those things that they saw were somehow linked to the crime. Until there`s a

connection, it`s speculation. Even as to backing the truck in.

Did he regularly do that? Was it unusual? So we can try to draw a story or conclusion based only what we think fits, but it`s not the case at all.

I mean there`s no getting around what we have already, but that - that other stuff, no, it`s not evidence of premeditation, it`s just a guess.

WEBBER: Loading bags, gas cans, right before this happened, I know garbage cleanup was the next day, which is interesting because if it

happened, all that evidence might have been - might have disappeared. So this happened on a Monday. Trash day on a Tuesday and he was arrested

Wednesday night.

Kyle, there`s inconsistencies in Chris Watts` statement, correct? What have we learn as things come forward that some of the things he said were

not entirely accurate?

PELTS: Right. (INAUDIBLE) it`s a media tour. He did three interviews with the local news the day after his family was reported missing and one

of them, he suggests that maybe someone took his wife through the backyard, and another one he suggests maybe someone took her, but he says he doesn`t

want to suggest anything, but another inconsistency is about cameras. In one interview, Chris does - he seems to see the reporters that cameras and

neighbors didn`t see anything.

WEBBER: Kyle, let`s show that right now. So Chris Watts is about to explain about cameras, and how there`s no cameras anywhere. And this is -

what he said, "No, we have a camera there, the neighbor has a camera, everyone checked out. Everything`s checked out." There`s really nothing

to say, nothing for us to see, but there`s -- that conflicts with something else we see from the arrest affidavit on the cameras it says. And I want

to - if we can put that up there because it`s really it contradicts everything we just saw.

And this is, again, what we`re trying to understand was Chris Watts being truthful. "The neighbor, no, home video surveillance shows Nicole`s

vehicle leaving at 1:48 a.m., and Chris`s truck is observed backing into the driveway and leaving a short time later."

James, that looks like a really bad inconsistency for Mr. Watts in the investigation.

GALIANO: Yes. The timeline is going to be critical here, the distances and what vehicles came out, and, look, 21st century technology means you

can`t do anything today without a digital platform with the digital exhaust when you open up your laptop or when you sign on to your home security

system or when you use your EZ (ph) pass or drive past a license plate recorder.

Police are going to piece all these together. These are pieces. They`re going to pulling up the threads and that thread is going to leave to an

unraveling of the story and probably going to lead to his conviction.

WEBBER: Well, we talk about whether it`s something is suspicious or coincidental. And we talk about earlier that he is alleged to have the

camera capture him - captured excuse me. Shanann coming home at 1:48 a.m. listen to what time Chris Watts was interviewed, listen to what time he

said Shanann came home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came back Sunday.

CHRISS WATTS: Yes, her flight was delayed from Arizona because of, like, other storms around the nation, so she was supposed to get home at 11:00,

got home at 1:48, got in bed 2:00. And I left - I left work - for at work early that morning like 5:15, 5:30 so like she barely - I mean, she barely

gotten into bed pretty much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBBER: All right. Kirby, if that`s presented in the courtroom, the fact he knew the exact time that that camera captured her coming home, that`s

strange. I don`t know what a jury`s going to think of that.

CLEMENS: Well, you know, and that`s what - that`s the difficulty with the case like this. I mean, quite honestly, as a defense lawyer, you have to

hope that the state`s not going to seek the death penalty and then you`re - you had - you are in a game. Otherwise, you`re just -- you are just gaming

the system, but to call that time out at 1:48 and that`s the time we know is there, that does - that is a problem.

I mean, quite honestly, this guy is his own worst enemy. If he just kept his mouth shut, things will probably be looking a little bit differently.

But he kept saying stuff, contradicting himself and exposing himself. It`s not a good situation for the defense.

WEBBER: All right, Kirby, you mentioned the death penalty. Excuse me. This has to be a death penalty prone case. You tell me. What does the

prosecution need to make this a death penalty worthy case, or will they not go for the debt penalty? You tell me.

CLEMENS: I mean, as a former prosecutor, and I did handled a death penalty case of it at the time. I can tell you, with three dead bodies, a woman

and two children, the way that the bodies were disposed of, the prosecution actually can make a compelling case to seek the death penalty depending

what the aggravating factors are under the law of that state.

I mean, obviously, as a defense lawyer, I would asked that they not seek the debt penalty, but given what we have now, this is somewhat of a mini

mass murder, its three dead people. So the prosecution has enough I think to go forward with that.

WEBBER: You know, we are talking so much about the case in the media. Kyle, last question to you, we don`t have a ton of time, but I got to ask.

Chris Watts is not happy about the leaks to the press, correct?

PELTS: Right. Last week he filed a motion asking for essentially a massive investigation into the source of leaks to the media. We don`t know

exactly what specific leaks he`s referring to or what he does not want out there, but there`s been a lot of information to come out from various law

enforcement sources, but looking through the court docket today, it appears that request by Chris watts has been denied.

WEBBER: Yes. That was a big claim to make. I`m not sure I`ve seen anything like that, asking the government to open up and investigation into

the leaks. I mean, everyone`s covering this and rightfully so. But that was a big claim. It was denied. This back and forth with the motions that

each day presents new evidence about what happened to these three people and the more - the condition of Chris Watts.

But everyone, I need everyone to please stick around because when we come back, we`re turning, again to our Facebook community who are still asking

about that interview with Chris Watts on his front porch. What else can we learn about him from those interviews? That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:30:00] SHANANN WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Eight years later, we have two kids, we live in Colorado.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looked at Shanann and Chris, they just - - immediate thought was love.

S. WATTS: He`s the best thing that has ever happened to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way that she looked at him, and the way that he looked at her, I`m sickened that a parent could do that to his children and

to his wife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WEBER, HLN GUEST HOST: The questions abound in this case because even as we get new details about the crime scenes and the evidence, we

still don`t know exactly how the Watts girls died, and if Chris is the one who did it, how could he have gone from family man to accused murderer?

Fortunately, we have you tracking this case along with us, weighing in with questions that narrow down the dark possibilities. All right. I want to

start with our first one. This is from Sylvie Poilin. Sylvie, I apologize if I messed up your last name, but you have a great question. Your

question is, "I think he killed his wife, then took her hands under his hands and choked the girls, that`s why he`s saying that. What do you

think?" Karen Smith, what do you think?

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I think that`s highly improbable. I mean, it`s a little fantastical to think that

you would use your wife`s hands under your hands if you think that it`s going to exonerate you from such a heinous crime. You know, I don`t put it

past anybody. Anything`s possible in crime scene investigations and forensics, however, I think at this point, police are looking at DNA,

they`re looking at bruise marks, they`re looking at different forensic aspects of this case rather than trying to place Shanann`s hands under his

hands on these children`s necks.

WEBER: I assume that question was asked because of the defense`s motion to try to get evidence from these girls` necks into and find out whose DNA was

on those necks. So, it`s an interesting question. Next one is another good one, this is from Starla Ragan Busby. "If Chris Watts killed his wife

or supposedly killing their daughters, why would he just not call the police and explain? How could he put his deceased daughters in oil tanks

if he loved them?" A difficult question, James, but I got to ask you, what do you think?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure. And sometimes we look at people like this when we go, why didn`t they do this or why they didn`t

do that? And sometimes evil does things that you can`t explain. If a person is a sociopath or a psychopath, they could do something like this.

As incomprehensible is it maybe to the rest of us. Most people would say, why didn`t he just get a divorce if he didn`t want to be there? Why didn`t

he just leave his wife and children? But obviously, he got into a heated argument, it appears, killed his wife, and then tried to figure out a way

to clean the mess up, and, unfortunately, there are no perfect crimes, and that`s what`s going to help unravel this, I believe.

WEBER: In other words, James, it`s impossible to explain human behavior at times?

[19:35:01] GAGLIANO: Yes.

WEBER: Yes, I think that`s the best way to explain it. We see that a lot here. Next one is a very good question that I`m sure a lot of you have

wondered. This is from Jeannette Hartman. "Why do you think Chris Watts was almost laughing or trying to hold back a laugh while giving interviews

on the porch? Let`s play a little bit of what this -- what Ms. Hartman is talking about right there. This is from Chris Watts` interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you guys get into an argument before she left?

CHRIS WATTS, MURDER SUSPECT: It wasn`t -- it wasn`t like an argument, we had an emotional conversation, but I`ll leave it at that, but it`s -- I

just want them back. I just -- I just want them to come back. And if they`re not safe right now, that`s what`s -- that`s what`s tearing me apart

because if they are safe, they`re coming back. But if they`re not, this has got to stop, like, somebody has to come forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEBER: That little smile, that little smirk, Kirby, can you explain it? Imagine we`re the jury right now, we`re the jury, we`re all the jury.

Explain that for us, please.

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all I can say is -- you said earlier, there`s no explaining human behavior, that`s the first point. But

the second point is that, he was attempting to try to convey some sense of normalcy. He wasn`t laughing at the fact that they were dead, he wasn`t

laughing at the fact that he killed them or any of those things. So, he wasn`t laughing about the tragedy. That was just an affect that he put on.

And it may be -- it may be, you know, alarming to some, but it doesn`t mean the nefarious things that people are trying to spin it into meaning.

That`s what I have to say.

WEBER: Yes. Maybe, maybe not. We`ll have to see. But it is something to watch. People have been studying that interview countless hours, trying to

understand every detail, looking into his eyes, and rightfully so because he`s been charged with the murder of his wife and two girls. We have

another question, and this one is a very, very good one. This is from Keena DaSilva. "I noticed in Watt`s court appearance that he`s wearing

glasses, but how are prison guards not worried he`ll try to kill himself with the glass from his eye glasses? Couldn`t he easily break them and use

a piece of the glass to slit his wrist or throat? Kyle, I know you`ve been studying and reading up about his condition and what his daily life is

like. So, what would you say to Ms. DaSilva?

KYLE PELTZ, HLN CRIME & JUSTICE PRODUCER (via telephone): Great. Well, as we know he`s basically on suicide watch behind bars, he`s checked on every

five minutes, maybe every 10 minutes. Even his bedding, according to our source, could be modified for reasons, you know, safety reasons to make

sure he doesn`t hurt himself. So, I think it`s plausible that he doesn`t have his glasses behind bars.

WEBER: James, back to you, is this common? Have you seen people in Mr. Watt`s position, make the ultimate move there? I mean, I`m thinking of the

Aaron Hernandez case, that`s a very different scenario, but, again, you got to worry about this, right?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. And eyeglasses could be used as a weapon or to hurt himself. Every institution has different rules, but generally speaking, if

you`re wearing eyeglasses when you get sentenced, you`re allowed to take them into jail with you. That`s generally the rule of thumb there, and,

yes, I would imagine that if he`s not on suicide watch, they have him just short of that, meaning he`s to be monitored 24/7. A person like this in

administrative segregation because other inmates want -- might want to try to hurt him, and, obviously, him being a danger to himself has got to be

something that law enforcement would be concerned with.

WEBER: And I`m wondering if that`s why they took away all of the reading material, all, you know, weights. He`s not allowed to do anything. Is

that one of the reasons why?

GAGLIANO: Absolutely. They don`t want to give him anything that could possibly use to hurt himself. They`re going to have cameras monitoring him

while he`s inside that jail cell, and he`s in there for 23 hours a day, probably brought outside for fresh air one hour a day.

WEBER: All right, everybody. Thank you so much for your great questions. We want to keep them coming because this is a case that really needs that

discussion. So, we will play more of your questions, we will answer them. We have experts always to talk about it. Karen Smith, Kyle Peltz, thank

you. James Gagliano, Kirby Clements, please stick around.

A disgraced former family values state senator finally learns his fate. Ralph Shortey was sentenced today on child sex trafficking charges. We`ll

speak with his defense attorney and see what newly-released documents reveal, next.

[19:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEBER: This story was disturbing from the get-go. When Oklahoma Police found a married state senator in a motel room with a teenage boy, but now

even more disturbing details are surfacing just as Ralph Shortey learns his fate. The disgraced former senator and church volunteer will now be

spending the next 15 years behind bars. This is after spending time hooking up and smoking weed with the 17-year-old victim, that is before the

cops came knocking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POLICE OFFICER: Let`s go, open up the door, so we can talk to you.

RALPH SHORTEY, FORMER SENATOR OF OKLAHOMA: May I ask why?

POLICE OFFICER: What?

SHORTEY: May I ask why?

POLICE OFFICER: Yes, because you have a juvenile in your hotel room.

SHORTEY: No, I do not have a juvenile in here.

POLICE OFFICER: OK, open the door and we`ll talk to you real quick and we`ll be done. We`re not worried about a little bit of weed. What we are

worried about is you have a juvenile in there. Yes, this one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:44:57] WEBER: Now, that wasn`t the first time that Senator Shortey got one-on-one time with the boy with whom he reportedly had sex multiple other

times. Though, Shortey`s child porn charges were dismissed in a plea deal earlier this year, Shortey was sentenced today for child sex trafficking.

This is just as we see newly-unsealed documents and photo evidence of what he did.

Joining me now, Scott Mitchell, host of "Mitchell Talks," Ed Blau, defense attorney for Ralph Shortey, and back again with me, James Gagliano, CNN Law

Enforcement Analyst and Defense Attorney Kirby Clements. Alright, Scott, I want to start with you, what happened in court today?

SCOTT MITCHELL, HOST, MITCHELL TALKS (via telephone): Well, looks like the sentence are about 15 years, reports are 12 years probably today, and

Jesse, it just is the latest story in this saga which started with that videotape, it becomes not only news, but there`s politics, and this is, you

know, politics is a blood sport, and that`s what heightened the interest in this, and it`s a big sentence today.

WEBER: It is a big sentence. So, Ed, I want to turn to you. You could have -- this is a 15-year sentence. The minimum was 10. The maximum was

life. How do you and your client feel about it?

ED BLAU, ATTORNEY FOR RALPH SHORTEY: Anytime a client gets sentenced to prison, I mean, it`s difficult. The government, they have requested a

sense within the sensing guidelines, meaning anywhere between 24 and 30 years. The judge at sentencing took into account my client`s significant

mitigation. Nobody ever knew this before, but he grew up in extraordinarily difficult circumstances. He lived on a Native American

Reservation in South Dakota. He was abused himself, both physically, sexually, and emotionally. He was actually shot by his older brother when

he was 3 years old. That was one of his first conscious memories. He actually saw his mother beaten with a tire iron, and he and his 8-year-old

sister when he was 10, actually had to drive his mother to the hospital.

So, all of that childhood trauma stayed with him. It was trauma that he never dealt with, trauma that he never let anybody know about, but once he

actually achieved a certain level of prominence, that`s when all those old demons caught backup with him, and that`s what, in my opinion, caused him

to engage in this extraordinarily self-destructive behavior.

WEBER: Yes, maybe. But this is a little strange because one of the things that we saw is all these documents came forward, and I want to show this

right now. There was a series of documents about the Craigslist ads. I want to put the first one up. It`s about him being a 34-year-old

professional. I`d like for our viewers to see that if we can. "I`m 34 professional married guy looking for a boy. I guess I`m a daddy type and

would love to have a boy to play with and take care of a little on the side." OK. Let`s play a little bit more of this, though, because it gets

a little worse. "If you`re interested in my wife -- I want to play that one, too, if we have that. Yes, OK. Because it talks about his wife now.

"If you`re interested in my wife joining in the future, that might be a possibility also. 420 friendly." And then, there`s one more that I really

want everyone to see. It says, "I`m married, and she knows I`m bi, but I really like this to just be between us."

OK, so, Ed, my first question is, he has continued to say that he is a religiously devout individual and his religion is helping him through this

process. How do you reconcile those messages with him being a family value senator who is very into religion? I`m not sure I`m making that

connection.

BLAU: First off, far be it from me to be able to reconcile behavior like that. That`s not my job in this particular case. In looking at what he

said to the judge today, he expressed remorse and he indicated that his faith has helped him through this. I cannot say one way or another what`s

truly in his heart. All I can say is that he is -- he`s, to me, and to the court today, shown tremendous remorse for what he did, for what he put his

family through, and for what he put this young man through.

WEBER: OK. You might not be able to explain that, but maybe you can help explain his intentions because those messages about his wife, what did he

mean by bringing her in?

BLAU: That, I don`t know. He and I never talked about the exact specifics of the messages that were sent out.

WEBER: I mean, there`s some explaining to do there, and I want to explain more about him in a second, but I want to turn now to James, because,

James, we`re talking so much about Ralph Shortey, but the victim here, the 17-year-old victim, there was a discrepancy between what he told state

police and what he told the FBI.

[19:50:06] First, he told the state police that, no, we never touch, nothing ever happened. Then, he tells the FBI, OK, we kissed. Then, he

tells the FBI, well, we kissed but then we started to undress. And then, we later learned that, oh, we had sex several times in the past. So, from

your perspective investigating this matter, how do you take a victim here and try to get to the truth when this person is giving inconsistent

statements?

GAGLIANO: Well, this is something we see a lot because a lot of times victims will attempt to downplay what the person who`s committing the crime

actually did to them. It`s almost -- it`s almost a sense sort of a Stockholm syndrome type of thing. Now, listen, this victim was 17 years

old. Now, somebody would argue and say, well, that`s the age of consent. Yes, but -- in working in this type of sex trafficking type of business,

answering this Craigslist ad like that, that`s where he goes onto the other side of the law.

And my issues with this, look, the attorney tried to explain this and I understand his job is to be a good advocate for this man. This man is

entitled to due process. He`s entitled to, you know, fairness going forward. But this is the classic abuse excuse. So, it`s the Alan

Dershowitz abuse excuse paradigm which is I`m going to explain the bad behavior that I`m doing because things happen to me when I was younger.

Look, this man is in his 30s. This man is an elected official. He should be held to a higher standard. And I trust that he`s probably going to end

up cutting a plea deal, it`s what my guess is going to be here.

WEBER: Well, with 15 years in prison, that`s not -- yes, he already pled guilty. He was sentenced to 15 years. And this is -- we`re going to talk

more about the outcome of that in a second.

But everyone, please stick around. Despite the sentencing, though, this story is far from over. There`s new information still coming out in court

filings and we`ll take a look at all of it. That`s next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEBER: We`re still talking about Ralph Shortey, the once married state senator, family values lawmaker and bible college grad who spent his time

working with kids. Well, this is all before police found him in a messy hotel room, motel room, with marijuana, condoms and a 17-year-old boy.

When prosecutors started digging into his online activity, what they found was even worse. Now, he`ll be paying the price.

My panel is back with me. And I want to start right now with Ed Blau, this is the attorney for Ralph Shortey. One of the things that we saw in all

these new documents coming forward is that there was a series of postings by Mr. Shortey trying to initiate -- excuse me -- group sex with this 17-

year-old boy. And that he was trying to ask for sex when he was on trips to D.C. What can you explain about that? What can we learn about this

from this man? I mean, again, he`s living one life, and then he`s leading a completely different life.

BLAU: Clearly, he was wrong in doing that. That`s why he pled guilty and that`s why he`s going to be spending the next 12 years in prison. It

really is inexplicable. He`s going to have a lot of time to be able to think about that and try to figure that out.

WEBER: He`s married, has four kids. I can only imagine, but what is that relationship like?

BLAU: Well, he and his wife are divorced. They got divorced a few months ago. His kids, he still talks with them on a weekly basis and when he gets

to whichever facility, he ends up that he is going to have regular visits with them. By all accounts, given everything else that we`ve seen, he`s

actually a very good father.

WEBER: And I believe that they changed their last names for security and privacy reasons. Do you -- are you -- is there an effort to try to get him

out of prison earlier? I know 15 years is what he was sentenced to. 10 was a minimum. Is there any effort on your part?

BLAU: In the federal system, obviously, you have to serve 85 percent of your time, and he`ll get some good credits if he does the sex offender

programs within the Bureau of Prisons. But beyond that, the Bureau of Prisons is pretty strict about when somebody gets released.

WEBER: Yes, and this is definitely one to watch and definitely something to see if he should ever get released. Another politician leading a double

life. Scott Mitchell, James Gagliano, Kirby Clements, and Ed Blau, thanks so much. And thanks to you at home for helping us investigate the Watts`

murders.

We`ll see you back here tomorrow night at 6:00 Eastern. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators were overwhelmed by the carnage in a single case. Arson, murder, fraud, suicide, and more. The bizarre trail

of evidence left even seasoned investigators baffled. Could forensic science unlock its secrets?

There`s very little crime in Newman Lake, Washington. A small town outside of Spokane. Which is why Bob Wood moved here after his divorce.

END