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EARLY START

Ford-Kavanaugh Senate Hearing This Morning; President Trump: I "Prefer Not" Firing Rod Rosenstein; Trump Says China Is Interfering In The Midterm Elections. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired September 27, 2018 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[05:30:02] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- a major chance to speak. Now, it's possible I'll hear that and I'll say hey, I'm changing my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Today is a day future generations will study in the history books. Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford both testify as the Supreme Court hangs in the balance.

DAVE BRIGGS, CNN ANCHOR: The president suggesting Rod Rosenstein will remain in his post. A meeting that could have changed the course of the Russia probe appears to be off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: China has been attempting to interfere in our upcoming 2018 election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: That came as a surprise. The president putting meddling and a trade war in the same category talking about China interfering. No mention of Russia interfering again.

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

BRIGGS: Everything came as a surprise yesterday --

ROMANS: Yes.

BRIGGS: -- including the Elton John and George Washington mention.

I'm Dave Briggs. It's 5:30 eastern time. It's September 27th. It's 27 years after the Anita Hill hearings, a hugely significant day.

One way or another, today will be remembered as a historic day on Capitol Hill. In about four and a half hours, Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford will testify at a Senate hearing that will likely make or break Kavanaugh's confirmation on the Supreme Court.

As the hearing approaches, the number of allegations against Kavanaugh is growing. On Wednesday, he was forced to deny three more accusations, bringing the total to five. Two of the allegations were anonymous, though a Twitter handle linked to one has emerged.

ROMANS: In that case, a Rhode Island man said he has information about, quote, "a rape on a boat in August of 1985."

The other allegation is that Kavanaugh assaulted a woman he was dating in 1998.

Regarding that claim, Kavanaugh said "We're dealing with an anonymous letter about an anonymous person and an anonymous friend. It's ridiculous. Total twilight zone. And no, I've never done anything like that."

BRIGGS: The third accusation came hours earlier. A woman named Julie Swetnick submitted a sworn statement to the Judiciary Committee saying Kavanaugh and his friend Mark Judge were present at a party in 1982 where she was drugged and, in her words, gang-raped. Swetnick did not identify Kavanaugh or Judge as her attacker.

ROMANS: All 10 Democrats on the panel called on the president to either withdraw Kavanaugh's nomination or order the FBI to reopen his background investigation. But, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley says the hearing will go forward this morning.

BRIGGS: At a news conference -- and an extraordinary one in New York that last 83 minutes -- the president said it's possible he could be swayed by today's hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're giving the women a major chance to speak. Now, it's possible I'll hear that and I'll say hey, I'm changing my mind. That is possible.

I'm going to see what happens tomorrow. I'm going to be watching, you know, believe it or not. I'm going to see what's said. And it's possible that they will be convincing.

They're going to have a big shot at speaking and making their case. And you know what? I could be persuaded also.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: That was a surprise.

Susan Collins, a critical swing vote, also raised serious concerns at a private meeting about the new allegations. The Maine senator also questioned why the Judiciary Committee has not subpoenaed Mark Judge, the only other person Ford says was in the room when she says Kavanaugh attacked her.

CNN's Phil Mattingly has more on what to expect today -- the dramatic day on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christine and Dave, the moment is very nearly here. The stakes, they are enormous.

Basically, senators have to decide not only to change the balance of the U.S. Supreme Court but also to change the balance of their own institution. To change the balance of how people deal with sexual assault allegations. All of that will be on the line in a hearing this morning.

Now, to give you a little sense of the dynamics here, this is going to be a pretty small and contained hearing. They are going to limit the number of press, they are going to limit the number of visitors and people who can watch the hearings.

We don't expect the protests like we saw in the first Brett Kavanaugh hearing but do expect the high-stakes drama, and here's why. Obviously, Democratic senators have made clear they have a lot of questions for Brett Kavanaugh. They have a lot of questions for Christine Blasey Ford as well.

Republicans, they have hired kind of an outside counsel to come in -- bringing in a county prosecutor to ask questions -- somebody with sex crimes experience -- prosecution experience to ask those questions. Most Republican senators I've spoken to say they plan to yield back their time.

But the reality kind of looming above all of this is Brett Kavanaugh does not currently have the votes to be confirmed by the United States Senate. I've been told that by several Republican advisers. That means this hearing means everything for his nomination.

And when you look at everything that's surrounding this hearing it means so much more than that -- Christine and Dave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right, Phil. Thank you for that.

BRIGGS: That is so true.

Let's bring in CNN White House reporter Sarah Westwood in Washington, and former U.S. attorney Michael Moore in Atlanta. Good morning to both of you.

ROMANS: Good morning.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Good morning.

BRIGGS: It is judgment day, the 27th of September, 27 years after the Anita Hill hearings.

And we have prepared remarks from both sides in this. And, Michael Moore, let me read you what Brett Kavanaugh will say today at this 10:15 hearing. [05:35:06] "I never had any sexual or physical encounter of any kind with Dr. Ford. I'm not questioning that Dr. Ford may have been sexually assaulted by some person in some place at some time, but I have never done that to her or anyone. I am innocent of this charge."

Assuming he's compelling, assuming he's believable, what will this come down to, Michael? Will it come down to his character and his honesty, and how does he disprove a negative when there's no evidence here?

MOORE: Yes. I think at the end of the day it's just -- it's going to come down to political pressure on the committee and this is why.

This is a little bit of a sham hearing in the sense that we would talk about wanting to find the truth, we talk about the chance to bring in witnesses and they've gone to these great lengths to have a sex crimes prosecutor brought in.

But they're not subpoenaing any witnesses. I mean, they've basically got the accuser and the judge, and they don't even have the guy who was supposedly in the room at the time all this happened coming before the committee.

So it's sort of the committee decided well, we need to put this up and have the appearance they were doing something wrong -- or doing something right to check into it.

You know, lawyers have this thing where we -- we're not even supposed to do things that don't avoid the appearance of impropriety so we avoid the appearance of impropriety.

This hearing is not doing that. I mean, we're basically just sort of throwing some people in the room and you get five minutes to ask a question, and we'll have some T.V. clips. And at the end of the day, then there'll be a vote.

But I don't know how we have a serious discussion about what went on when you don't have the one eyewitnesses.

Can you imagine trying a case and getting in front of a jury and saying well, I'm going to talk to you for about five minutes but I'm not going to bring the witness in who say anything, and you can just trust me on it? That's silly and that's where we're at today.

ROMANS: Let's read -- let's read Christine Blasey Ford's opening statement because we have that.

"I don't have all the answers and I don't remember as much as I would like to, but the details about that night that bring me here today are ones I will never forget. It is not my responsibility to determine whether Mr. Kavanaugh deserves to sit on the Supreme Court. My responsibility is to tell the truth."

In that statement, she also said she's terrified, she's reluctant to be there. But she and her lawyers have said that it is a civic responsibility that she feels that she had to. We heard, Sarah, the president say it's possible -- he's going to listen. It's possible he could change his mind.

Is it possible that anything in this hearing today changes anyone's mind?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, it possible but not really on the substance of what we expect to hear from Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford.

A lot of the senators on both sides of the aisle have sort of already made up their minds about what they think happened during this alleged incident. But there are a number of moderate Senate Republicans who need the cover of a good performance from Kavanaugh to be able to take that vote for him if Kavanaugh doesn't perform well.

If there's a consensus in public that potentially he came off as looking guilty and he wasn't competent, it will just make it that much harder for Republicans who are on the fence to take a vote that could hurt them back home.

So really, the only audience that matters today is going to be that relatively small number of Senate Republicans who need to see sincerity from Brett Kavanaugh and who maybe are hoping that Christine Blasey Ford's testimony doesn't come off as sympathetic and credible because that will also complicate the path for Brett Kavanaugh to go forward.

ROMANS: So what you're saying is it's not about -- it's not about finding the truth, it's about political packaging. That's what this is about today. Political --

BRIGGS: Sure.

ROMANS: -- packaging for members of that committee.

BRIGGS: Do you agree, Michael?

MOORE: I think that's true, I mean, and that's what I was saying earlier when you've got little 5-minute hits and you're going to have people come up. I mean, we could have -- nobody needs to necessarily go back when these cases are very difficult anyway. And I know that there's no probably physical evidence from 30-some odd years ago.

But you can have people open up background investigations. You can do serious interviews with witnesses who were out there.

And, you know, I've been through a background investigation and a security clearance investigation and the FBI, they're great agents. They're good men and women in law enforcement.

And they'll go back there and they'll talk to people back from the time -- I want to say back, maybe, to when I was 18, 17 years old when I was moving from place to place. Whatever the case may be is they go through to find out about you and your story.

So there's a -- there is an ability to go back and talk to people and take --

BRIGGS: Yes.

MOORE: -- serious witnesses.

It's not a question of them making a determination about the credibility of the witnesses, but put together an investigation where there are statements -- there are sworn statements. There are available witnesses that can come in so that the senators can make a valid determination and credibility of what -- of what went on. And that's why I think is going to be lacking here today.

BRIGGS: One thing we know, Senate confirmation hearings will never be the same when it --

MOORE: That's right.

BRIGGS: -- comes to the Supreme Court.

And how about the process there? "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board writes in a piece called "Democrats Endorse Avenatti." He is the lawyer for this latest woman, Swetnick.

They say -- "But if this is the new confirmation standard, then we have entered a politics in which anyone can be destroyed by anyone making an incendiary charge, even without supporting evidence."

How will these hearings forever be changed, Sarah?

[05:40:03] WESTWOOD: Well, I think the emergence of these additional allegations from Deborah Ramirez, from Julie Swetnick, and now some more anonymous allegations -- that's allowed the White House and Republicans to go from having to show a certain amount of sensitivity because that it was just Brett Kavanaugh versus a sympathetic wife, mother, professor.

Now their target is what they're calling a smear campaign. It's multiple allegations, it's Michael Avenatti, it's Senate Democrats. That's why you've seen them be able to go on offense.

And now, both sides are really engaged in this --

ROMANS: Yes.

WESTWOOD: -- rhetorical warfare and we're no longer talking about whether Brett Kavanaugh is qualified for the Supreme Court -- whether his juris prudence is a good fit for the makeup of the court.

BRIGGS: Right.

WESTWOOD: We're disputing tweets and allegations that are appearing in news stories. And so it's really just changed the conversation about what qualifies someone to sit on the Supreme Court.

ROMANS: This will really be the most we have heard from Christine Blasey Ford. It's been remarkable -- she's been a reluctant participant in this --

BRIGGS: Yes.

ROMANS: -- for a victim or survivor -- whatever you want to say.

BRIGGS: Not seeking fame and fortune --

ROMANS: No.

BRIGGS: -- to the president's words yesterday.

ROMANS: This -- we just have this new polygraph -- only the second photo we've really seen of her -- this polygraph photo that her lawyers have revealed.

But she didn't want to do this, Michael Moore, and does that make her even sort of more credible that she -- you know, some would say why didn't you come back -- come here 35 years ago. But the fact is she has struggled with this and what role this alleged incident played in her life.

MOORE: Yes, I think it does -- it adds some amount of credibility to her.

And if you have to wonder why people didn't want to do it -- victims don't want to come forward -- just look at the last 72 hours.

ROMANS: Yes.

MOORE: And you've got a president on a national stage talking about victims and people drinking and this kind of thing. And so, they don't want to take a chance of putting their whole life out there. It's a very personal thing that happens to folks.

But I do think there are things that lend to her credibility. One of those things is that fact that she talked about this with her therapist and other people back years ago before Kavanaugh was even nominated or anybody was even thinking about Brett Kavanaugh coming on the Supreme Court. And that type of statement lends credibility.

These other witnesses -- or these other ladies who have come forward, I don't know about the latest two. I haven't -- I don't ever like just anonymous charges that come out.

ROMANS: Yes.

MOORE: I think those are hard to defend against.

But the other -- the other ladies who've come forward that we know and have given specifics and sworn statements -- in the law we have a thing called similar transaction evidence and that kind of shows somebody's -- a jury gets to hear it because it shows their course of conduct, their bent of mind, their scheme, their motive, their opportunity to do wrong.

And when you start hearing the same story over and over again and you start hearing the same kind of allegations like parties, and drinking, and punch -- or spiking the punch or whatever -- and sexual activities, and lines outside rooms where passed out girls were in the other room -- you know, when you hear those things over and over again it begins to also lend credibility, certainly, to Dr. Ford's statement.

So it's going to be an interesting day.

BRIGGS: Yes.

MOORE: It's not a good day for her and it's tough for her as she relives it. I hope everybody looks at it and recognizes that it will.

BRIGGS: Of course, Michael, the president would argue no one's ever going to want to throw their name in the hat for Senate confirmation for the Supreme Court again because of the way this process has been handled.

But, Sarah, let me ask you. It's come down to really math and there are three senators everyone's watching -- Murkowski, Collins, and Flake. But we haven't heard a lot about some of those red-state Democrats up for reelection -- namely Manchin, namely Donnelly, Tester.

Could they get even Democrat votes for confirmation?

WESTWOOD: That was a certainly a possibility that Republicans were banking on before these allegations emerged. That was already going to be a tough sell.

There's been all this talk for the past year and a half of the Trump presidency that at a certain point some of those red-state Democrats who are vulnerable in November would feel pressure to vote with Republicans and we just haven't seen that play out in any big legislative battle, and so there was no reason to suspect that that was going to happen in this case.

And certainly, now it's even more unlikely because not only do they have the cover of Kavanaugh's conservative views being unpopular among Democrats, but also they can hide behind the allegations to say you know what, we are -- we can't vote for Brett Kavanaugh.

President Trump, yesterday, said that potentially, he expected that some Democrats would join and vote for Brett Kavanaugh. We did see three red-state Democrats cross the aisle and vote for Neil Gorsuch, but it's hard to see that happening right now when you are having conversations about not even having enough Republican votes to confirm him.

BRIGGS: Well, it is a hugely emotional and historically impactful day.

Sarah Westwood, Michael Moore, thank you both.

ROMANS: Nice to see you. Thanks, guys.

MOORE: Glad to be with you. Good seeing you.

ROMANS: All right.

One day after saying he has great respect for Xi Jinping, President Trump says China is meddling in U.S. elections. What's he basing that on?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:48:55] ROMANS: President Trump is trying to ease the tension with Rod Rosenstein. He's even suggesting the embattled deputy attorney general may not lose his job after all, at least not yet.

Rosenstein thought he was out after a stunning report claimed he spoke of wearing a wire to record the president with the goal of ousting him from office last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He said he never said it, he said he doesn't believe it, and he said he has a lot of respect for me. And he was very nice and we'll see.

And he's a member of the Trump administration in that sense -- it's the Justice Department. I would certainly prefer not doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The president also indicated he would postpone today's meeting with Rosenstein to avoid competing with the Kavanaugh hearing. The meeting is not on the White House schedule.

BRIGGS: President Trump declaring a foreign power is trying to interfere in the upcoming midterm elections, but it's not the country you might think.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: China has been attempting to interfere in our upcoming 2018 election.

[05:50:00] They are trying to meddle in our election.

They would like to see me lose an election because they've never been challenged like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: CNN's Alexandra Field getting reaction. She joins us live from Hong Kong. Good morning, Alex.

What's the evidence the president is pointing to?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Dave -- good question. He said it over and over and over again -- interference and meddling. The evidence you ask for -- well, he didn't present it right away. But later in the day, President Trump did tweet a picture. He has been suggesting that China has been interfering with the midterm elections as retribution for the budding trade war Beijing.

This is the picture he tweeted. It's an insert from a Chinese state newspaper that ran in an Iowa newspaper. It includes articles supporting Beijing's stance on the trade war.

This is common practice for this state newspaper. It pays to run these advertisements and these inserts.

The president says that this is evidence of interference, it seems, from that tweet.

A senior official with the administration went on to say that Chinese tariffs targeting regions of the country that supported President Trump in 2016 also amounts to evidence of interference. He went on to say that Vice President Mike Pence would be giving more evidence in a speech next week.

As for Chinese officials present at the U.N. Security Council meeting, they flatly denied the allegations -- Dave, Christine.

BRIGGS: Alex, thank you.

"NEW DAY" is about 10 minutes away and in the spirit of the 83-minute political potpourri press conference that outed Mr. Kurd -- Mr. Bostonian, John Berman, joins us now.

John --

ROMANS: Mr. Bostonian.

BRIGGS: -- it's a historic day, but why bring George Washington into this?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you're bringing George in and that's a step too far for a lot of people.

Look, I think if you look at the day, friends -- if you're talking about the historic import of this and you're rating it from one to 10, you would give this about a 79. This is a huge day.

And again, three branches of the U.S. government are tied up in this -- the Executive Branch, Congressional, and Judiciary -- and we don't know what's going to happen. How often do you go into a day and have no idea what the outcome will be?

So much hangs on the witnesses that will appear before this committee -- Christine Blasey Ford and also Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

We've heard from Kavanaugh. We haven't heard from Professor Ford. We have no idea what she sounds like -- think of that.

And we've got a big show to match this moment today. Coming up in a few minutes, we're going to speak to Michael Avenatti -- the attorney, of course, for this third woman who has come forward with a horrific account. She says that in some ways, Brett Kavanaugh and his friend Mike Judge were complicit in a gang rape. Horrifying, if true; horrific, if not true that someone would make these claims.

We've also got the attorney for Debbie Ramirez. Debbie Ramirez says that Brett Kavanaugh put his genitals in her face. We're going to talk to this attorney and ask him -- you know, President Trump seemed to indicate she was going to be able to tell her story today. I'm not so sure that they have a similar view to that.

BRIGGS: And (INAUDIBLE) women.

BERMAN: Then, Richard Blumenthal, the senator from Connecticut, joins us later in the show. Also, he will be one of the Democratic senators at this committee.

And I'm dying to know what the Democratic plan is here to questions these witnesses because we know the Republicans have brought in a seasoned prosecutor. Are the Democrats just going to go down that road like they have before and fill up their time with these 5-minute statement questions --

BRIGGS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- or do they have a more, I think, organized plan today?

BRIGGS: Yes, and will it be about these incidents or about his character, and his integrity, and his honesty in the hearings and in that Fox News interview, in particular.

John, we very much look forward to the show. Thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you, guys.

ROMANS: All right, Mr. Boston, thanks.

Not exactly "Jaws", but check this out. We do have to slow that down.

BRIGGS: This does --

ROMANS: What made a seal launch an octopus at a kayaker in New Zealand?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:58:12] BRIGGS: Kayaking is usually not a contact sport but it was for one man in New Zealand.

ROMANS: I just don't --

BRIGGS: Whoa, is right. A kayaker gets slapped in the face by the tentacles of an octopus that a seal tossed out of the water. The slow-mo really kills the story. Kyle Mulinder says he and his friends were watching the seal tussle

with the large octopus before it burst out of the water, hurling the octopus straight at said face -- ouch.

ROMANS: OK. A miniature wheelchair made from Legos helping this injured turtle heal. He was found in a park near the Maryland Zoo in July with severe fractures under his shell. Workers say it was likely from being hit by a car.

The contraption helps keep the little turtle elevated. Officials say the eastern box turtle is doing great, riding in style. They plan to return him to the wild once he is fully healed.

I needed both of those stories this morning.

BRIGGS: Yes. They need a major motion picture based on that turtle.

ROMANS: It's true.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Christine Romans.

BRIGGS: I'm Dave Briggs. "NEW DAY" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

BERMAN: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, September 27th, 6:00 here in New York.

And this is a day -- I mean, oh my, is this a day. This is kind of 'I remember where I was' type of day.

Never before has a Supreme Court nominee or, frankly, a nominee for any office faced the kind of allegations being made against Brett Kavanaugh -- sexual assault, a kind of complicity in a gang rape? Horrific, if true and simply horrifying if people would make these claims if not true.

In just a few hours, two of the players in this expanding drama -- and only two -- will appear before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Professor Christine Blasey Ford says that Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed, groped her, and held his hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming. In her prepared remarks she says, "Brett's assault on me drastically altered my life."

Now, Kavanaugh --