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Scope of FBI Probe; Women Voters Speak Out; Kavanaugh Impact on Midterms; Warren Considers 2020 Run. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 1, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Let's just remind everybody, she's the person who was a Yale classmate who says that when she was intoxicated at a party, he exposed himself and forced her to actually make contact with his body part because she had to push it out of her face, basically, Josh.

So here's the witness list as we knew it, OK, as -- from our reporting. Mark Judge, who, of course, is the person that Christine Blasey Ford says was in the room when the sexual assault happened. PJ Smyth, who we've heard a lot about, was a high school friend of Kavanaugh's. Leland Keyser, she's important. She was the other young woman who was at the party but who was not in the room and may not know anything about what happened in that room that Christine Blasey Ford has testified to. And then Debbie Ramirez, who we've just outlined.

So where would you start?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So this investigation is not like a typical FBI investigation. This is not a criminal investigation where FBI agents can go wherever the facts take them. There have been guardrails essentially that have been put in place. We've been reporting this over the last couple of days here at CNN. Our justice team, the Supreme Court team, the White House team, basically these parameters that the White House is setting on this investigation that you can only look here. I've talked to a number of people --

CAMEROTA: But, hold on because -- because Tom was just saying that that doesn't make sense, that if you get a lead out here, outside the guardrail, that, of course, FBI agents can chase that. You're saying, in this case, they cannot do that?

CAMPBELL: So in a typical criminal investigation you would. You'd go where the facts lead you. Again, we've been doing a lot of reporting over the weekend and that was the information that we've been getting from those familiar with the investigation, that there is a very specific set of parameters that are placed on this investigation.

Now, that's not to say that the FBI can't go back to the White House and say, this is what we found, this is where we want to go, can we expand that scope? I personally believe that is going to be the crux of this issue and that will show whether this is merely a check the box exercise, that we want to look into this. You know, there's this timeframe, this arbitrary one-week deadline that's been given. But if the FBI -- and, you know, we've learned from the reporting on Ramirez, that she reportedly gave additional names of witnesses. Those are people that the FBI would want to talk to. The question is, will the White House permit that? That's yet to be seen.

CAMEROTA: So, Tom, if there are these guardrails and the agents have to stick to the guardrails, then does the investigation become a sham as Democrats worry?

TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I don't know. If -- you know, if there are guardrails, then they've already gone off the road in the first weekend -- the first two days of the investigation. So I just don't see that the guardrails are a hard and fast lane. They will --

CAMEROTA: Well, no, the guardrails that there are just these four -- just these four people.

FUENTES: Well, they will because they have to get to anybody that could possibly shed light on whether or not there was a party, who was at the party, who can confirm, was Kavanaugh there, was she there? Did they get seen going up the stairs? And then, what was happening at the party if it did take place? How much drinking was going on?

CAMPBELL: My friend Tom, I mean, talks about exactly how we want the investigation to be conducted. We want the FBI to be able to go where they need to go, to follow whatever leads. But (INAUDIBLE) --

CAMEROTA: But you're not confident they're going to?

CAMPBELL: Well, I'm confident that they're willing to do that. The question will come down to, again, will the White House allow them to expand the scope of this investigation and do what Tom just said, what we expect FBI agents to do, and that is follow every lead. That's the major question that we don't have the answer to.

CAMEROTA: Why are you confident, Tom, that they will be able to do that?

FUENTES: Well, the mere fact that they interviewed Ramirez, that that took place -- if that reporting is accurate, you know, that's not what we heard on Friday or Saturday of what the scope of the investigation was going to be. It sounded like it was just going to be the accusations made by Ford and then Kavanaugh's behavior in connection with that --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FUENTES: And not have to do with any of the other people that made allegations. And Ramirez's allegation was already out there by this past weekend. So if she has, in fact, been interviewed, that already compromises the scope.

CAMEROTA: Well, I think our reporting, Tom, has changed a little bit since Friday because here's the scope as we understand it now, today, here it is. Overall drinking history will not be part of this. I find that curious, gentlemen, because this -- it's part and parcel of what all the witnesses testified to, that Brett Kavanaugh was, you know, wildly intoxicated during these things. The FBI only taking direction from the White House. FBI agents will make no conclusion about what witnesses say. The White House will get results and decide how to proceed.

Josh, I have a question. How can it be that the person who is the most ardent supporter of Brett Kavanaugh in the White House, White House Counsel Don McGahn, the person who groomed Brett Kavanaugh for the White House selection, is overseeing this? Does that give you any pause?

CAMPBELL: Well, I think it's within the purview of the White House to conduct this investigation in the way that they see fit. I mean, at the end of the day, you would have talked about this, this is not an investigation criminally into this person. This is a suitability question. This is an effort to determine, is this person suitable to sit on the United States Supreme Court? Is this someone that we would want?

Now, the FBI has this very strange role that they play, and they've done it for decades, working with the White House as an investigative arm that will look into someone's past, that will look into someone's history. At the end of the day, the White House is their client. They're not following the, you know, U.S. legal code and trying to find some criminal violation. They're getting direction from their client, which is the White House. And, in my estimation, you know, in my opinion, that I think it is appropriate for the White House counsel to be able to determine, you know, what information that they want. The question is, is you can't put the FBI Good Housekeeping stamp of approval on this investigation if, at the same time, you are limiting what they're allowed to look at.

[08:35:08] CAMEROTA: Right.

Tom, here's another curious thing that I'm hoping you can answer. At least six people who have pertinent information, these are high school and college classmates of Brett Kavanaugh who have what they say is pertinent information as to sexual assaults and excessive drinking, are trying to reach the FBI. They're calling field offices. They're presenting physically at field offices. They're trying to get the FBI's attention and the FBI, in many cases, are directing them to sort of an anonymous tip line that's recorded. What should people with information be doing? Is that good enough?

FUENTES: No. If they have information, they should be contacting the FBI and that information should be referred to Washington, D.C., to the field office here that's conducting the background information and they should be talked to, or at least at the minimum talked to on the telephone to find out if the information they have is relevant or is pertinent.

And I think -- and I'll disagree with the list that you -- not that the list isn't true, but I disagree with people who say that Kavanaugh's drinking is not an issue. He made it an issue. And that's the problem because if they can show that at any time he ever blacked out, then he's going to lose the credibility that at no time he ever attacked Ford. He's not going to be able to back that statement up 100 percent.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FUENTES: He's going to have to say, well, as far as I can remember. But if somebody says, well, there were a number of times you drank to where you didn't remember, then that really, really will throw such a cloud over him that it may be the final straw. We don't know, but it's going to be very precarious for him to get through this week.

CAMEROTA: Well, look, it is interesting because there are people who have told journalists that they know that Brett Kavanaugh had memory lapses because of drinking. So it will be very curious to see if the FBI can corroborate those accounts and even talk to those people.

But, Josh Campbell, Tom Fuentes, thank you very much for all of your experience in this field.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

CAMPBELL: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The audience for all of this is really just a small handful of U.S. senators. In particular, two -- two senators, Susan Collins from Maine, Lisa Murkowski from Alaska. Where do they stand this morning on the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? We've got some new information coming in. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:08] BERMAN: This morning, the confirmation prospects of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh may rest with two senators, Lisa Murkowski from Alaska, Susan Collins from Maine. Which way are they leaning this morning and who exactly are they hearing from.

Our Kaylee Hartung is live in Portland, Maine, the hometown of Susan Collins, with the very latest.

Kaylee.

KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, women here in Portland telling me they're getting calls from friends all over the country who say, go talk to your senator. I wish I could. I wish my senator was a decision maker. And so some women who've never been politically active before feel a responsibility to make their voices heard.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where I needed to be. This is the work that I needed to be doing today and encouraging Susan Collins to please vote no and protect our Supreme Court and our daughters and our country. HARTUNG (voice over): Vivian McKale (ph) and a minivan full of her

friends have come to deliver a very pointed message to Senator Susan Collins' Portland staff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It happened to me. And she was as credible a witness as I've ever seen in my 17 years of practicing law. So I believe her.

CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, KAVANAUGH ACCUSER: I believed he was going to rape me.

HARTUNG: Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh has repeatedly denied the allegations. Still, Dr. Christine Ford's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, a trigger for women to organize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I sat all day watching her, and it was heartbreaking, it was gut-wrenching. Her story is like so many other people's stories. And if it was me, I wouldn't want to feel alone either.

HARTUNG: Protests from Maine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Senator Collins is listening, what she's telling young women is, your bodies don't matter. They're not yours. You're not in control of your life. And these boys can do anything they want.

HARTUNG: To Alaska.

CROWD: Hey, hey, ho, ho, Supreme Court nominee has got to go.

HARTUNG: Pleas for their undecided senators to listen.

CROWD: (INAUDIBLE).

HARTUNG: Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins, once again key deciders on a critical vote.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's frustrating that once again that so much of this burden is being put on the women from the GOP.

HARTUNG: Women believing they have a responsibility to speak loudly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I have friends all over the country who would love to be able to have a senator that they could go speak to that they felt like was a decision maker.

HARTUNG: Not only in their home states.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you're saying is the Maine contingency right now.

HARTUNG: But also in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'd like to know when we're going to be able to meet with Senator Collins. HARTUNG: This group driving overnight from Maine, five of them able to

meet face-to-face with their senator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do feel like she heard us. She was very sincere in listening to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are very aware that Collins' vote is absolutely critical to the future of this country.

HARTUNG: The consequences of a vote for Kavanaugh?

BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: Before the Senate and the nation.

HARTUNG: Clear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would suggest to me that she no longer felt that she was a representative of the people of Maine and I would never vote for her again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:45:04] HARTUNG: More protests expected today in Portland outside Senator Collins' office.

While the opposition is loud, there is quiet support for Brett Kavanaugh among women. Senator Murkowski's office telling us they've heard from constituents on all sides of the issue. People are very engaged, they say. And here in Portland, we have spoken to some of those women who want a yes vote out of Senator Collins. But, Alisyn, none of them were willing to tell us that on camera.

CAMEROTA: Kaylee, this is what makes it so tough. Of course there are passionate feelings on both sides and these senators have their work cut out for them. Thank you so much for the reporting.

So, how will the Brett Kavanaugh saga impact the midterms? We get "The Bottom Line," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, the political impact of the Brett Kavanaugh hearing, it goes well beyond the Supreme Court. We're talking about the midterms and also, now, 2020 is looming.

[08:50:00] Let's get "The Bottom Line" with Chris Cillizza, CNN politics reporter and editor at large and author of "The Point with Chris Cillizza."

Chris, do we know for sure what the impact will be on the midterms? I think Republicans feel like it will energize their base. I have heard multiple times now that they feel like that this protects some of those tight Senate races. But maybe it puts the House even more in jeopardy?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I mean the short answer, John, is we don't know. I never -- I -- after Donald Trump got elected president, I stopped saying I know anything for sure when it comes to politics before people actually vote. But what I would say is, if you look at the way in which the Kavanaugh hearing has played out, I do think that it will provide jet fuel for female voters who we know don't like Donald Trump in bulk, 29 percent approval in our poll, and are likely to vote for Democrats. That will, without question, help Democrats in the House.

The calculation Republicans are making is that the House may be already gone, but they need to preserve the Senate, where the playing field looks different and better. A lot of states, ten where Trump won in 2016, where Democrats are up for re-elections, five of those state he won by double digits. That's Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Manchin, Joe Donnelly.

So I think they believe that it will rev up their base enough and put enough Democratic senators in tough states in difficult voting positions. Now, we'll see. I think all of that depends on what this FBI investigation finds, if anything?

CAMEROTA: So, I know that you no longer made predictions, but as someone who has his finger on the pulse of inside the beltway, is Brett Kavanaugh going to get confirmed less than a week from now?

CILLIZZA: Golly, thanks for the easy one, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CILLIZZA: I think -- gosh, I honestly -- I was going to say, I think he will, but I -- but then I just -- I don't know, candidly. I mean the issue is, if you could tell me what even the first couple days of the FBI investigation has turned up, if anything, I could give you a better sense.

I do think -- focus on -- we talked about this earlier, focus on Flake, Murkowski, and Collins, and what they say they want to see or not see in the FBI investigation. Those are the votes that really only matter. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, what anyone else is swayed or not swayed by other than that.

CAMEROTA: And have they said anything? I mean we know what Jeff Flake said on "60 Minutes" last night --

CILLIZZA: We know -- right.

CAMEROTA: But have the women said anything over the weekend that --

CILLIZZA: No. We have almost nothing from Collins and Murkowski. Flake essentially nodded during a "60 Minutes" interview, when it was raised, well whether -- if it's proof that Kavanaugh was lying about anything, would that be disqualifying, and Flake nods, which we're taking as a -- well, if that means he lied about his drinking, then does that disqualify him, and Flake nods.

CAMEROTA: Didn't he more than nod? Didn't he say yes?

BERMAN: He said yes.

But I think -- I'll answer the question for Chris here.

CAMEROTA: Please.

BERMAN: I think we know that Flake was a yes on Friday --

CILLIZZA: That's correct.

BERMAN: Before he put the brakes on. So Flake is basically at yes unless. And I think there's every reason to believe that Murkowski, based on how she framed the extra time here, but it's got to be limited, was also a yes unless. And if she's there, Susan Collins is also.

So I --

CILLIZZA: And if that's the case, then he's getting confirmed.

BERMAN: The presumption is --

CAMEROTA: Except that there's a big "unless."

BERMAN: Unless.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: Unless. So, you know, we have to wait and see what happens.

CILLIZZA: I don't think you can -- making predictions generally is a dicey business. Making predictions amid a re-opened FBI background investigation into the Supreme Court nominee who has several allegations about his sexual behavior, as well as his drinking, is not something anyone who knows anything about politics would engage in.

BERMAN: All right.

CAMEROTA: And that's why I asked you.

BERMAN: Exactly. You put him on the spot.

2020, handicapping now.

CILLIZZA: Yes, sir.

BERMAN: Amy Klobuchar has been a name that people had mentioned as a possible candidate. A lot of people looked at what she did in the hearing as being positive.

And then Elizabeth Warren --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: Felt the need this weekend to be more conclusive about her exploration of running for president. Why?

CILLIZZA: OK, let's do Elizabeth Warren first.

I think she's making sure she's keeping her space open. She's boxing out, to use a basketball analogy. She's making sure there's enough space here for her. So that's why she did it.

Klobuchar is interesting. She distinguished herself not by being a yelling, screaming partisan, but by being a thoughtful, persistent inquisitor. Does the Democratic Party want that?

BERMAN: Imagine that? Thoughtful.

CAMEROTA: Just like Chris Cillizza. Thank you very much, Chris Cillizza.

BERMAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, late night laughs next. You've got to stick around for that.

BERMAN: Oh, yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:8:05] CAMEROTA: All right, Matt Damon lending some comedic firepower to this weekend's --

BERMAN: If you will.

CAMEROTA: If you will. To this -- the premiere of "Saturday Night Live." So watch this fiery, testy, beer-swigging recreation of Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT DAMON, ACTOR, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Now I am usually an optimist. I'm a keg is half full kind of guy. But what I've seen from the monsters on this committee makes me want to puke and not from beer!

Dr. Ford has no evidence. None! Meanwhile, I've got these. I've got these calendars. These beautiful, creepy calendars. Talk about lifting weights with PJ and Squee (ph) and Donkey Dong Doug (ph). But you don't care about Squee or Donkey Dong Doug, do you? You just want to humiliate me in front of my wife and my parents and Alyssa freaking Milano.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, that was a tour de force. I mean it was in the same, I think, pantheon as Melissa McCarthy's Sean Spicer, Alec Baldwin's Donald Trump, Tina Fey --

BERMAN: And Tina Fey as Sarah Palin.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Which had an actual, genuine impact, which I'm not allowed to discuss, because we're only allowed to discuss the comedy, according to you, of it.

CAMEROTA: No, I just -- sometimes I used to say to Chris Cuomo, sometimes when the broccoli seeps into the hot fudge sundae, it's less fun.

BERMAN: And look what happened to him.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: He ended up off the show completely.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Where is he now?

BERMAN: So just watch yourself. Watch yourself.

CAMEROTA: Where is he now?

BERMAN: Watch yourself.

CAMEROTA: OK, John --

BERMAN: Matt Damon was great.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: He didn't crack for a moment. He sold that the whole, entire time.

CAMEROTA: I know. I mean that was good acting, not just (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Like me. I'm acting now.

I'll be here tomorrow.

CAMEROTA: Fantastic.

BERMAN: You can't push me out that easy.

Time for CNN "NEWSROOM" with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto.

[09:00:06] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. And welcome to the first Monday in October.

By tradition this is the start of a new Supreme Court term