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20 Killed in Limousine Crash; GOP Using Kavanaugh Fight to Fire UP Midterm Voters. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 8, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a horrible tragedy. There's no words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty fatalities, it's horrific. This is one of the biggest losses of lives that we've seen in a long, long time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were fun-loving. One has two little children, and they now have no home.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: He's going to be on the Supreme Court with a big asterisk after his name.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO DONALD TRUMP: Justice Kavanaugh should not be seen as tainted.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: That Supreme Court process was a sham.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm glad those who tried to overturn the rule of law and replace it with mob rule lost.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. it's Monday, October 8, 6 a.m. here in New York. Alisyn is off. Erica Hill with me this morning.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

BERMAN: For Columbus Day. Happy Columbus Day.

New details emerging this morning about the deadliest transportation accident in the United States in nearly 10 years. Twenty people killed after a limousine crashed through an intersection in upstate New York. Witnesses say they heard an explosion. They reported bodies on the ground, broken tree limbs just everywhere.

HILL: The driver and all 17 passengers, among them four sisters from one family, as well as a newlywed couple, among those killed. The victims were on their way to a 30th birthday celebration for one of the passengers in that limo. Two pedestrians were also killed as a result of the crash. NTSB investigators now trying to determine the cause.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is live near the scene in Schoharie, New York, with more of the details. Polo, good morning.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, an enormous loss of life in a single instance. We're just west of Albany. I want to give you a lay of the land, just explain what took place on Saturday afternoon, as this limousine, this 2001 excursion that had been modified into a limousine, was approaching a T-shaped intersection here in Schoharie, New York, just outside of what is a very popular country store for one reason or another. That vehicle did not stop at a stop sign and proceeded into the parking lot and eventually crashed into a nearby ditch.

That parking lot is where two bystanders were struck and killed, and then the 18 occupants of that limousine then dying at the scene.

I can tell you that we're now learning a little bit more about the victims and those lives cut short. At least two victims now identified by their family members as Erin Vertucci and Shane McGowan, a young couple from nearby Amsterdam, New York, only a short drive from here, that had just been married in June. And that seems to be, really -- it seems to fit the profile. Many of the occupants in that vehicle, these were young, promising couples. They were full of life still, celebrating a 30th birthday, as we hear from a family member. Their families are certainly going through so much at this time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their first vehicle they were in broke down, so I don't know if the company sent another vehicle. I'm imagining that's what happened, and this one was just as bad as the first one. My niece said before she got in the vehicle she texted a friend of hers and said, "Oh, my gosh. You wouldn't believe what they just sent." And she says that "This vehicle is a little sketchy," because it made a lot of noise; it didn't look good. She says, "I don't know if we're going to survive this," and 20 minutes later she died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: As you can imagine, those kinds of statements are certainly going to be raising many questions here as authorities begin to try to find out exactly what went wrong.

There are two investigations happening right now: the National Transportation Safety Board expected to be on the ground for most of the week, conducting their investigation. Also, the New York State Police also speaking to witnesses. And of course, they'll get a closer look at that vehicle, expected to provide crucial clues as more of these families continue to be notified about the deaths of their loved ones.

John, you can imagine this whole community is right now grieving but at the same time asking for answers, trying to find out what went wrong.

BERMAN: Thanks, Polo.

Joining us now if former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz; and New York State Assemblyman Angelo Santabarbara. He represents the town where most of the victims were from.

Representative -- Assemblyman, let me start with you. You are from Amsterdam. What a loss to your community.

ANGELO SANTABARBARA, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: Certainly unexpected. Something that -- it shocked the entire community. And I spent most of the day in the city of Amsterdam yesterday talking to members of our community, and all parts have been affected. This is something that's just absolutely devastating, and it's just unthinkable. And my thoughts and prayers are with the families. As you learn more and more about the victims, people that were affected by this - this terrible accident, it's just -- it's -- the city is in mourning right now.

BERMAN: These are all young people, four sisters, two brothers, all people in their 20s and 30s, young children. What can you tell me about some of the victims?

SANTABARBARA: We -- we talked to the religious community, Father DeMartinis from St. Stanislaus just married one of the couples not too long ago. It was absolutely a devastating -- a devastating event. And we -- the religious community is certainly there to support our community.

The school district, we have a very close relationship with. We talked to one of the -- briefly talked to one of the students last night. This is something that's going to affect students in the Great Amsterdam School District. I know they are offering grief counselling. They did yesterday, and that will continue during the week. So it's affecting the Greater Amsterdam School District, as well.

We are working with members of the local community for organizing a candlelight vigil for tonight, a chance for our community to come together to support one another, to remember the victims, honor their lives, a chance to -- to mourn together.

BERMAN: Peter Goelz, these modified SUVs, this was an SUV modified into a limo. My understanding is there's really very little regulation of these vehicles.

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: John, you're absolutely right, and it's been a source of concern to the NTSB for years. After a Long Island crash in which four young women were killed, the after- market adjustments that they make to these cars, lengthening them, raising them often affects the structural integrity and the safety. You know, there's going to be two main areas, John, of this investigation.

One is the human side. The driver, was he certified to drive this kind of vehicle? Was he under any kind of impairment, drug, alcohol, or even fatigue? And was he in a rush? You know, they had to change out the vehicle, apparently. Was he trying to make up time?

And then they're going to look at the vehicle. Was the interior of the vehicle designed in such a way to cause injury? There's a lot to unpack in this investigation.

BERMAN: My understanding is that the driver required to wear a seat belt, but in the back of that limousine, there is no law. There is no requirement for the passengers to wear seat belts?

GOELZ: That's going to be revisited. I mean, this accident, it's -- it is such a horrific toll. I would say this is going to be, you know, a watershed event for the limousine, you know, industry. There are seat belts in the back. There are required to be, but you're not required to wear them. And I think the loss of life will, in part, be attributed that individuals were not wearing seat belts. And so the rule may very well change in the near future.

BERMAN: Assemblyman, I understand that before you got into politics you were a civil engineer. You designed roads. And one of the questions here, and I think we might have a map, so people can see what I'm talking about. Is that this intersection, where Route 30 goes into Route 30A, is just a stop sign there. You go down this Hill and there's been many -- there have been issues at this very intersection over the last several years. What do you make of it?

SANTABARBARA: And yes, during this time of year, this is a -- this is a popular spot. A lot of traffic comes through here, and hearing about -- as we learn more about this -- this accident we -- we are hearing more and more about other close calls that have happened in this area. We're hearing about tractor trailers, trucks that have had some pretty close calls.

So when these roads are designed, safety has to be the No. 1 concern and with this investigation, I do -- I am particularly interested in looking at the road configuration, because it was changed not too long ago. So I'm curious as to what the previous configuration was, and what it is now, and what the traffic control devices are in this area.

There are roads that are being redesigned right now in the Amsterdam area. Church Street is one that comes to mind. That is a state road, as well. Where there are -- have been advancements in traffic control devices, road counting measures, a number of other things that perhaps can be done here.

But certainly, it has to be part of this investigation and the details of that may be what we just heard is that maybe the road needs to be redesigned or some safety features do need to be added, but certainly, with this type of accident, it's raising a lot of questions, you know, as we talked -- we heard -- you heard about the limousine industry, but also the road design itself in rural areas like this, and what can be done to improve safety.

BERMAN: You know, Peter, when you look at this, there's really a couple of real tragedies, ironic tragedies here. These young people got in this limousine, we can imagine, because they were going to a party at a brewery. They were doing the responsible thing, you know, take a car, so that you're not driving after it. And yet it ends in disaster Peter.

When you look at this, the sign that we have, what are the red flags that jump out to you? Where do you think this is headed, the investigation?

GOELZ: Well, I think, John, there's two things. One is, is they will really scrutinize the operation of the limousine company. And then they're going to take a broader look at the safety of these limousines.

You know, oftentimes when they're modified, things like side curtain airbags are removed. Structural integrities of the vehicles are compromised. I mean, exactly how did 18 young people -- how were they killed inside of this accident? It really is horrific. Ad as I say, this is going to be a major change in the limousine industry. They cannot resist this going forward.

[06:10:07] BERMAN: The deadliest transportation accident in the United States since 2009, and that was a plane crash outside Buffalo.

Peter Goelz, thank you for being with us. Assemblyman, thank you, sir, for being with us. Our hearts go out to your community. I've been to Amsterdam. It's not a big place. This kind of loss, I know, will reverberate all over that community. So thank you.

SANTABARBARA: Thank you. Yes, it's a small city, but as you said, it's a tight-knit community, and this is -- it's a very tough, a very difficult time. And tonight, we'll be coming together in the coming -- in the coming days. We will look for ways to support one another and to support these families.

The deadliest transportation accident in the United States since 2009, and that was a plane crash outside of buffalo. Peter, thank you for being with us. Assemblyman, thank you for being us with, and our hearts go out to your community, I have been to Amsterdam and it's not a big place and this loss will be all over this community.

SANTABARBARA: Yes, it's a tight-knit community and a very tough -- very difficult time, and tonight we will be coming together but in the coming days we will look for ways to support one another and support these families.

BERMAN: Thank you very much, sir.

Coming up in our next hour, we're going to talk to the lead investigator in this crash, the NTSB chairman, Robert Sumwalt.

HILL: Newly-minted Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh beginning his first week on the high court after that bruising confirmation battle.

President Trump and the Republicans taking a victory lap, casting Democrats as an angry mob in hopes that the Kavanaugh fight will pay dividends in the midterm elections, which are now, by the way, only 29 days away.

CNN's Abby Phillip is at the White House with more.

Good morning, Erica. Republicans are taking a victory lap over the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, but now the attention is shifting to the campaign trail, where both Democrats and Republicans are hoping to use the treatment of Kavanaugh and his accuser, Christine Blasey Ford, to galvanize their voters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRAHAM: To the extent that I came to the aid of this good man and helped defeat this debacle, I am happy as a clam.

PHILLIP (voice-over): Republicans doing a victory lap after successfully elevating conservative judge Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, despite allegations of sexual misconduct, which he denies.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: I want to thank the other side for the tactics that have allowed us to kind of energize and get involved our own voters.

PHILLIP: GOP leadership and President Trump attempting to capitalize on the divisive political battle to rally their base ahead of the mid- term elections.

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Republicans believe in the rule of law, not the rule of the mob.

PHILLIP: But Democrats also also hoping that Kavanaugh's confirmation will drive frustrated voters to the polls.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: If you believe Dr. Ford and other brave women who came forward, and you want to vindicate their sacrifice, vote.

PHILLIP: Kavanaugh's confirmation, President Trump's second Supreme Court pick, cementing a conservative influence on the Supreme Court for decades. Ultimately, every Democrat, except West Virginia Senator, Joe Manchin, voted against Kavanaugh, and every Republican except Alaska's Lisa Murkowski voted in favor.

MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On this vote, the "ayes" are 50, the "nays" are 48.

PHILLIP: President Trump telling "The Washington Post" of Murkowski, "I think the people of Alaska will never forgive her for what she did," but the president applauding Maine Republican Susan Collins --

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: I will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

PHILLIP: -- who voted "yes" after spending weeks on the fence.

COLLINS: I do not believe that Brett Kavanaugh was her assailant. I do believe that she was assaulted. I don't know by whom, and I'm not certain when.

PHILLIP: Attorneys for Kavanaugh's accuser, Christine Blasey Ford, discussing the fallout of her testimony.

DEBRA KATZ, ATTORNEY FOR CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD: This has been terrifying. The family is going through a lot. They are not living at home. The threats have been unending. It's -- it's deplorable.

PHILLIP: Ford's lawyers telling NBC she was horrified when President Trump mocked her testimony last week.

LISA BANKS, ATTORNEY FOR CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD: She was upset by it, yes, as any woman would be who's a victim of sexual assault who is mocked and belittled by anyone, never mind the president of the United States.

PHILLIP: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who refused to even hold a hearing with President Obama's Supreme Court pick, Merrick Garland, ahead of the 2016 election, now appearing to move the goal posts.

MCCONNELL: We have a party of a different -- a different -- the Senate of a different party than the president, you don't fill a vacancy created in a presidential year. We'll see whether there's a vacancy in 2020.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP: President Trump, later today, he is going to be traveling to Orlando, Florida, for a police convention. Despite the fact that Judge Kavanaugh was sworn in formally over the weekend, he will also host a swearing-in ceremony for him at the White House later this afternoon.

Meanwhile, President Trump is also -- I'm sorry, Kavanaugh is expected to be hearing cases at the Supreme Court starting tomorrow -- John and Erica.

BERMAN: Abby Phillip at the White House. Abby, thanks so much.

So if you think this all sounds like a lot to process before the midterms, now Taylor Swift is involved. That might change everything. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Less than a month ago, and we have now a clear rallying cry from President Trump and Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In their quest for power, the radical Democrats have turned into an angry mob.

MCCONNELL: We refused to be intimidated by the mob of people that were coming after Republican members at their homes and in the halls. SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: What we

have learned is the resistance that has existed since the day after the November '16 -- 2016 election is centered right here on Capitol Hill. They have encouraged mob rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So will that mob angle work? Joining us now, CNN political analyst David Gregory; senior correspondent for "New York" magazine and co-author of "Notorious R.B.G.," Irin Carmon; and CNN political commentator and former Clinton White House press secretary Joe Lockhart.

So we've got the mob and apparently a little bit of a French resistance going on, as well.

BERMAN: Does that make it more menacing --

HILL: I'm not sure.

BERMAN: -- if you say it with a French accent?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's an Iowa -- that's an Iowa French accent.

HILL: Are we going back to freedom fries? I'm not sure.

But all of that aside, David, when you look at this -- and we know -- obviously, we see the messaging that's been put out there over the weekend -- who does all of this play for moving into the next 29 days for the midterms? Who makes out better here?

GREGORY: Well, I think both sides. I don't think we know who makes out better.

[06:20:04] I mean, on the right, one thing that's true is that support for Kavanaugh, support for the president and his pick, united the Republican Party in a way that it was not united before, that these were, you know, anti-Trump people and Trump people all coming together around this idea that there should be a more conservative Supreme Court. And that's something that a lot of Republicans can agree on.

I think this is the disparity between fear and anger, right, and what's more powerful. Republicans will say be afraid if -- if the left gets more power, and what they'll do. We saw this play out. But anger is a big and strong motivator. You see that if you go through our recent mid-term elections that have worked against the majority party. And I think that's what Democrats, who agree very angry, are making.

BERMAN: That was the subtlety -- with the subtlety of a jack hammer, there, when you have the president, the chairman of the judiciary and the Senate majority leader all happen to use the word "mob" on one Sunday there.

Irin, how do you see it? People who are opposed to the Kavanaugh nomination, if they're waking up this morning and seeing themselves being called a mob today, what do they do about it?

IRIN CARMON, CO-AUTHOR, "THE NOTORIOUS R.B.G.": I mean, I think we need to step back and remember that this nomination was always sailing towards confirmation, and they always had the votes in the Senate.

The problems that the Democrats from the beginning is that, historically, their voters are not as engaged on the Supreme Court as Republican voters are. And so this gave a sharp and clear target for Democrats realizing just how much it matters to turn out for the midterms, which has historically been a problem for Democratic voters.

Yes, there's already Trump, but now, I think people understand that, if another seat opens up at the Supreme Court, because this is by no means the last Supreme Court battle. Which Senate is going to make the decision on that? Who is going to fill -- I hate to say it -- potentially, if Ruth Bader Ginsburg leaves the court, if Clarence Thomas leaves the court, if he retires, if one of them decides for health reason they leave? The Senate control is going to determine that. And I think that this has really focused people on that in the Democratic base.

HILL: It's totally interesting to see, too, not only, obviously, what happens come November, but whether it's about, you know, trading the -- somebody was talking about over the weekend, it's trading the majority. There's a chance of trading the majority but getting that Supreme Court pick, which ultimately, is a bigger win for conservatives.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, this is all going to play out, but I think two points. One is the angry mob, in reality, were women coming forward and sharing instances of being sexually assaulted.

Now, it is hard enough to come forward with those stories, but then to be labeled as an angry mob by a president who couldn't bring himself to label neo-Nazis in Charlottesville an angry mob. He found good people on both sides.

Secondly, and I think, you know, I think a lot of women in this country are going to focus very much on Susan Collins.

Here was a chance for one of the most powerful women in the country, she set herself up to be the single most powerful senator in this country by saying, "I'll tell you at 3 p.m." And she came out and stood up there as a woman and says, "I believe the guy. I believe the guy."

GREGORY: I do think there's a different way of looking at that, and I think a lot of people will look at it differently and say Susan Collins came out there and said, "I have doubts about this, and the presumption of innocence matters." And I think a lot of people will take that in.

And I think -- I certainly agree with Joe, this notion of mob rule, we'll see how it goes, but it's -- it's pretty dangerous for Republicans to go down that road. But I will say that, as long as Democrats go out there and talk about

impeaching Justice Kavanaugh, I think they're playing a very risky game and will be seen as potentially overreaching if they go down this --

LOCKHART: And David, coming back to that, she said she had some doubts about his temperament. She said at the end of the day, "I don't believe he did it." And she basically said -- and she tried to caveat it, and she can't caveat these things. These are black and white, right and wrong. And she said that, "In the end, I believe something happened to her, but Brett Kavanaugh didn't do it." And to women, they -- that will understand that as women are not to be believed.

BERMAN: Irin.

CARMON: I think we need to stop. We need to step back and think about how different peoples' different expressions of anger are regarded.

I mean, I understand why Mitch McConnell wants to change the subject from Trump standing up there and mocking Christine Blasey Ford. But it is sexual assault survivors and people who support them who are the ones who made their voices heard.

And why is it that we automatically assume that the anger of, say, the Tea Party or the Trump voter or the Bernie Sanders voter is more legitimate than the anger of a sexual assault survivor who's asking her senator to listen to her? And I think it's always a moment to stop and think, who is the mob here and whose anger is automatically, de facto considered legitimate? And it's usually the anger of the white man.

BERMAN: Let me do two things here. No. 1, I do want to disclose, David, your wife, Beth Wilkerson, did represent Brett Kavanaugh on the legal side of this. I also want to disclose -- so you have just as many ties to Merrick Garland, also.

GREGORY: Yes.

[06:25:07] BERMAN: So look --

GREGORY: Let me just say that I have deliberately not talked about any of this while the confirmation was pending, but I'm still very comfortable talking about the politics moving forward.

BERMAN: And I think that's great, and we're thrilled to have you back on with us.

The second part of that is you raised a question about the Supreme Court going forward. You know, who gets on the Supreme Court going forward? Well, my answer to that is, as long as Mitch McConnell is the majority leader, whoever the "F" he wants.

CARMON: Right. BERMAN: Which he's proven. He has proven that he will control this process from beginning to end, and he will use the power he has, whether you think it's manipulate or alter the rules, or whether you think it's utilize the power that he has has if you're Republican, he will do so to get the person he wants on the court. And he really said as much over the weekend when asked about this directly.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: If Donald Trump were to name somebody in the final year of his first term in 2020, are you saying that you would go ahead with that nomination?

MCCONNELL: Well, I understand your question. And what I told you is what the -- what the history of the Senate has been. You have to go back to 1880 to find the last time a vacancy created in a presidential election year on the Supreme Court was confirmed by a Senate of a different party than the president. That's the history.

WALLACE: So if you can answer my direct question, are you saying that if Trump --

MCCONNELL: I was trying. The answer to your question is, we'll see whether there's a vacancy in 2020.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So he created or is citing this 1880 example. He's adding the different party aspect to it, even though John Dickerson on CBS noted the Eisenhower administration alters that precedent there.

But he's basically saying, Irin, the important thing is here that "I'm going to do what I want to do if I can."

CARMON: Right.

BERMAN: "I will do what I can here, no matter what."

CARMON: I think that the brute force exercise of power proved to have its rewards in 2016. Holding that seat open worked, and the voters, you know, Democratic votes, unfortunately for Hillary Clinton and unfortunately for people who want to see a progressive Supreme Court, did not turn out and make sure that Hillary Clinton would have filled -- filled that seat.

And so the question is, moving forward, do people realize that, as much as everybody is talking about the norms around the Senate and how we need civility, that's not what this is about. This is about the brute exercise of power and the only way that there will be accountability is if voters show up.

GREGORY: And I think that you made that point because, as well, and it's so important. You know, conservatives vote on particular issues. We see this with gun rights. You see it on the courts, and Democrats typically do not do so.

And so if Mitch McConnell, as the majority leader, will -- were to do something completely hypocritical in 2020, there would have to be a price to pay at the polls or else it's just going to happen. Because power will be exercised absolutely if they can get away with it. That's the point.

HILL: Joe, I'll give you the last word, because we're almost out of time.

LOCKHART: Well, I think the big question in my mind, is I think this is, in many ways, a crushing defeat for women and women's rights. And the question is, are people going to be energized by that, women in general and men who believe in women and their ability to have a voice? Is it energizing them or will they say, "Enough, I can't do this anymore"?

BERMAN: Which do you think it is? Because I think, to a large extent, Democrats are like Cleveland Browns fans, where they just assume in the end they're going to blow it.

LOCKHART: You know, I -- I hope it's different. I actually do believe it's different. But you can certainly understand, if you're sitting, as a sexual assault survivor, and someone like Dr. Ford comes forward, reluctantly, and then the white men in this country stand up and say, "We don't believe you."

HILL: Yes, there's something else here, too, and I will say, just in my conversation with women of a number of different generations, right? My own, younger and older than me. It's not even just that part of it. For a number of those women and especially of an older generation that I've spoken to over the weekend who are not known for being, in their lifetime, politically active, it's also the treatment that they saw in the testimony and the demeanor and the outbursts that they saw from Kavanaugh that energized them in terms of the reaction to that and if a woman had said it. I think that will be, too --

GREGORY: There's also not -- there is some split among women about all that, but there's also context, which is the president's party, the president himself has already been losing ground with women, which makes it more difficult.

BERMAN: Thank you all. Joe, Irin, David, nice to have you all here with us in the studio. Appreciate it.

HILL: A new twist in a global mystery. The head of the international police goes missing. Now, though, we may know his whereabouts. We've got a live report with those details next.