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WOLF

Trump Stresses Importance of U.S.-Saudi Arabia Relationship Amid Khashoggi Case; Saudi Official Close to Crown Prince Involved in Operation; Interview with Senator Ben Cardin; Mueller to Deliver Key Findings on Probe After Midterms; Trump Says He's Not to Blame if GOP Loses House in Midterms; Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 17, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] KING: We'll keep an eye on that race. Please check out our podcast as well. Stay with us. More news ahead. "WOLF" starts right now. Have a great day.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

President Trump siding with the Saudis today despite admitting he's not yet seen what could be critical evidence in the disappearance and likely murder of the "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi. The evidence in question, an alleged audio recording of the moment Khashoggi was killed.

Here's President Trump, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saudi Arabia's been a very important ally of ours in the Middle East. We are stopping Iran. We're not trying to stop. We're stopping Iran. We won a big step when we took away that ridiculous deal that was made by the previous administration. The Iran deal which was $150 billion, a $1.8 billion in cash, what was that all about?

And they are an ally. We have other very good allies in the Middle East. But if you look at Saudi Arabia, they're an ally and they're a tremendous purchaser of not only military equipment but other things. When I went there, they committed to purchase $450 billion worth of things and $110 billion worth of military. Those are the biggest orders in the history of this country, probably in the history of the world.

I don't think there's ever been any order for $450 billion. And you remember that day in Saudi Arabia where that commitment was made. So they're an important ally. But I want to find out what happened, where is the fault, and we will probably know that by the end of the week, but Mike Pompeo is coming back, we're going to have a long talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Right now Turkish forensic investigators they've begun searching the Saudi consul-general's home. This is the first time investigators have been allowed inside since Khashoggi vanished more than two weeks ago. According to a Turkish news agency crews are already examining DNA samples taken from the Saudi consulate a few streets over.

The consulate is the building where Khashoggi was last seen entering and the one where Turkish officials say he was killed and dismembered. The DNA samples are said to have been taken from the building and its sewers.

Let's go to our senior White House correspondent Pamela Brown. She's joining us right now.

Pamela, I take it the president is meeting with the Cabinet right now. We expect to hear from him momentarily once again. Until we get that videotape, what else did he say as far as we know?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, before that Cabinet meeting kicked off, Wolf, the president came out and denied that he is giving any cover to Saudi Arabia, saying he wants to get to the bottom of what happened. But he also emphasized the important relationship that the U.S. has with Saudi Arabia when it comes to fighting terrorism, when it comes to Iran, when it comes to the arms deal.

It is clear the president is putting a lot of emphasis on this relationship and showing more skepticism when it comes to possible evidence from Turkey, this audio recording that reportedly recorded Khashoggi -- Jamal Khashoggi being killed. He's more skeptical that this evidence, this audio recording exists, that he says the U.S.' has asked for this ,than Saudi Arabia's denial, Wolf.

The president seems to be softening his tone when it comes to Saudi Arabia's possible involvement in this purported killing of the journalist. Just this past weekend, he said that the U.S. would be very upset if in fact Saudi Arabia was involved in this, he said could it be them? Could they have been involved? Yes.

But now he's coming out and just emphasizing the important relationship, saying that there could be rogue killers involved, and even drawing a comparison to Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation process, saying once again guilty until proven innocent.

He also declined to say whether the FBI is involved in this investigation. Here's what he said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, he wasn't a citizen of this country for one thing, and we're going to determine that and you don't know whether or not we have, do you?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well I --

TRUMP: No, but do you know whether or not we've sent the FBI?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you sent the FBI? TRUMP: I'm not going to tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So the president also saying he believes he will know by the end of the week who was to blame, what exactly happened. His Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on his way back after meeting with Saudi officials. The president says he will be briefed by Mike Pompeo upon his return either this evening or tomorrow.

What's interesting here, Wolf, is what exactly will Mike Pompeo tell the president because Mike Pompeo himself said that he doesn't know the facts of what happened, that it's important to let the Saudi investigation take course here, play out. So it sort of remains to be seen what information Mike Pompeo will be able to provide upon his return to the United States -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And just to be precise, the president is meeting with his Cabinet now, there's a pool of cameras inside. We'll get that videotape fairly soon, is that right?

BROWN: That's right. We're hoping to get that videotape very soon. To more sound with the president hopefully momentarily here, Wolf.

[13:05:06] BLITZER: And we'll play that for our viewers of course.

Pamela Brown back at the White House. Thank you very much.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: So Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is on his way back from his meetings with Saudi and Turkish officials like the president. He also admits saying he hasn't yet heard the alleged recording of Khashoggi's death, but he did tell reporters that the U.S. needs to give both sides some space to investigate and that the Saudis have promised transparency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I stressed the importance of them conducting a complete investigation of the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi. They made a commitment. They said they would do that. They said there would be a thorough, complete and transparent investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's go to Istanbul right now, to the site of what could be this truly horrific crime. Our law enforcement analyst, former FBI supervisory special agent Josh Campbell is on the scene or us tonight, right outside the Saudi consulate.

Josh, the Saudis have promised a transparent investigation. Is that what we're seeing right now?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's yet to be seen, Wolf, as far as how comprehensive that investigation will be or how transparent the Saudis are with Turkish officials here. I can tell you, we are on the site, at the residence of the Saudi consul- general. It's starting to rain here but that's not deterring investigators behind me who are processing the scene right now.

A very dramatic development about three hours ago where outside the Saudi consul residence, we saw a number of police vehicle moving in. The reason this is important is because on the day that journalist went missing, CCTV from that event actually showed vehicles moving from the location of the consulate over here to the residence.

I'm going to step aside, Wolf. We have diplomatic people coming and going, but what I'll tell you is that what happened about three hours ago is we actually saw these police officers moving in, they were in moon suits stepping out to conduct this forensic examination here, Wolf, and what has been happening since then is we've seen a drone flying overhead, we've seen a lot of flurry of police activity. And again trying to get to the bottom of what happened here with evidence possibly taken from the scene of the Saudi consulate and then taken over here to include possibly the body of the missing journalist. That's something investigators will be looking at very closely.

Wolf, lastly, I'll tell you that one thing that has been of interest as we've seen developments unfolding over the last 24 hours, one interesting piece is the Saudi connection that keeps on growing. We now understand that of that 15-man hit team, one of the individuals that was involved and is reportedly the person who orchestrated what took place is someone closely connected with the Saudi crown prince.

Now I think we have a graphic here of this individual with the crown prince. He's a current intelligence officer, a diplomat, obviously someone of great interest now to this investigation because of that Saudi connection.

Bottom line, Wolf, each new day we continue to see additional developments, additional Saudi connections. Whether that information is shared in full from the Saudis to Turkish authorities and from the Saudis to the United States is yet to be seen.

BLITZER: And we know the Saudi consul-general has left Turkey. He's back in Saudi Arabia right now.

Josh Campbell, on the scene for us, thank you very much.

President Trump likening the furor over Saudi Arabia to the sexual assault claims against the U.S. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh saying Saudi Arabia should not be guilty until proven innocent.

Here with us now, with the Maryland Senator Ben Cardin. He's a Democrat. He's a key member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Wolf, it's good to be with you. Thank you. BLITZER: So what's your reaction to what the president is saying?

CARDIN: I'm extremely disappointed. He should be very clear that America will not tolerate this type of a murder taking place. It's clear that the royal family had some involvement here. It's also clear that they've changed their story on numerous occasions. So the president needs to be clear that our foreign policy is embedded in our principles. Basic respect for international human rights and that there's got to be a consequence to our relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

It doesn't mean we still won't do business with them, but we have to make it clear that that type of behavior cannot continue. If we don't, it's just an open season.

BLITZER: Well, do you have any doubt that the Saudis killed Khashoggi when he walked into the Saudi consulate that afternoon some two weeks ago? He was alive and well, he was never seen walking out, never seen again and all of the reports suggest he's dead.

CARDIN: There's no question that the Saudis were responsible for his death. That I think is now quite understood. We don't know the details. We don't know the involvement of the different people, we don't know who planned this. We don't know who orchestrated this. But our concern is that it's hard possible in Saudi Arabia that an episode like this could occur without the royal family being involved, particularly the crown prince.

BLITZER: And when the president suggests maybe -- President Trump suggests maybe rogue killers were responsible, you say?

CARDIN: I'd say that's not likely, not with the discipline in the -- in Saudi Arabia.

[13:10:04] And you have members of the intelligence group that was involved in this, the security forces of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It leads back to the crown prince. We need to have that information come forward, America needs to be clear, the president's language to me is disappointing and gives oxygen to those types of behaviors happening again.

BLITZER: Do you agree with your Republican colleague Lindsey Graham that Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, the man widely seen as really being responsible for day-to-day everything in Saudi Arabia, must go?

CARDIN: Well, so far I have joined with my Republican colleagues in asking the administration to look at the Magnitsky sanctions and no one should be excluded from that investigation. If the crown prince is involved, that has to come forward. Clearly there's a lot of explanations we need to have.

BLITZER: Do you think the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin should still go to this big economic conference that was planned in Saudi Arabia in the coming days? So many other individuals have cancelled. CARDIN: The United States should cancel, there's no question in my

mind, with this open issue until we have the facts. It's absolutely the wrong signal for the United States. The leader of the free world to hesitate and say, yes, we'll still go, when we're seeing the right reaction from so many players.

BLITZER: The president tweeted this the other day. He said, "For the record, I have no financial interest in Saudi Arabia or Russia for that matter. Any suggestion that I have is just more fake news of which there is plenty."

During the campaign, though, he did say he had a lot of deals with Saudis. They were buying apartments for $40 million, $50 million, boasted that he had an excellent commercial relationship with the Saudis. Do you see any connection here?

CARDIN: Absolutely. We know the Saudis used Trump Towers, Trump hotels when they're here, because they know that that curries favor with the president. They understand that. There's no question that the president's violation of the emolument clause of the Constitution, failing to divest himself of his financial holdings, and particularly in international events compromises America's.

BLITZER: But that long standing financial relationship with the Saudis, is that clouding his -- his look at the investigation right now?

CARDIN: I tell you I never know what motivates the president of the United States. You know, Mr. Trump, his actions to me are so unpredictable. But clearly there's a cloud over these issues with him maintaining the financial interest in Trump.

BLITZER: Let's see what happens with his investigation.

Senator Cardin, thanks so much for coming in.

CARDIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, Robert Mueller is reportedly on track to conclude major parts of his investigation soon after the midterms next month. We have new details.

Plus, from the president's fixer to now just a PR person who did some small legal work. The president continues to downplay Michael Cohen's former role and now accusing him of lying under oath.

And the blame game has already begun. If Republicans lose control of the House of Representatives next month, the president makes it clear it's not his fault.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:23] BLITZER: A new report from Bloomberg says the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein is pressing the Special Counsel Robert Mueller to wrap up his Russia probe. The core findings could be delivered, according to Bloomberg, shortly after the midterm elections. The report that would render judgments on two key aspects of the overall Russia inquiry. One, whether there was any clear incidents of collusion between Russia and the Trump 2016 campaign. And two, whether the president took any actions that would constitute an obstruction of justice.

Let's discuss this and more. Joining former federal prosecutor Kim Wehle. She's a former assistant United States attorney, associate independent counsel of the Whitewater investigation. Also with us David Gregory. His title very short, CNN political analyst.

Guys, thanks very much.

So you think they can wrap this thing up with a report to Rosenstein shortly after the midterm elections?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it's hard to understand where this information comes from. We've been hearing from the White House for a long time that this needs to be wrapped up. And of course the big question is, will we see additional indictments prior to a report because of course Mueller has already indicted 30 something entities, people, six guilty pleas, and we've had now 50 hours with Mr. Cohen. We had Manafort cooperating so there's not -- it's not unlikely that we'll see additional indictments in addition potentially to this report. It would seem like with respect to the report what would be straightforward this point is obstruction. Collusion could be more complicated.

BLITZER: The president keeps saying, including today, no collusion, no collusion, all a witch hunt, all a hoax, get it over with, let's move on.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and the bottom line is we don't know what we don't know. And what we don't know is what the special prosecutor has and what he's developed. You think back to the president's first national security adviser who was dismissed, now you have Michael Cohen, Manafort cooperating, a focus on contacts with the Russians, the leaks of information from the DNC coordination potentially with WikiLeaks.

So there's a lot of questions, we just don't know the answer to them, but we know that there are people who have spoken to the special prosecutor. The obstruction piece is interesting of course because that is what we do know about which is the president firing the FBI director Jim Comey because he didn't like how he was handling the investigation. And that's very much going to be in the political realm.

But I still think, what the president is focused on and calling it a witch hunt is that there's no evidence that he or anybody close to him would coordinate or collude with the Russians to try to impact the election. That's going to be the core of whatever his findings are, I have to believe.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Michael Cohen for a moment, Kim, the president's former lawyer, PR guy, fixer, whatever you want to call him, but he worked for a decade very closely with Donald Trump. [13:20:09] Now the president of the United States in this interview

with the Associated Press says he's a liar, oh absolutely he's lying. Michael Cohen was a PR person who did small legal work, very small legal work, and what he did was very sad when you look.

This is the president of the United States. Now accusing Michael Cohen who's pleaded guilty to all these counts including, you know, perjury, obstruction, whatever, all he pleaded guilty to. But now he's saying -- the president of the United States when he -- when Michael Cohen testified that it was Donald Trump who authorized the payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. He says that Cohen is a liar.

WEHLE: Sure, I mean it's really stunning that Michael Cohen said in open court under oath that essentially the president of the United States engaged in a federal crime. And I think we just heard so much misinformation out of this White House, so many blatant lies out of the president that it's hard to really just give any credence at this point to what he says as far as whether something is true or not. Certainly he had an interest in speaking to his base on this. They're going to believe whatever he says, but as David mentioned the real question is what information does the Mueller investigation have.

And I know years ago from being inside the Ken Starr investigation that it's very, very different from what the public knows so I think he's got to worry at this point, not only about potential liability for himself but also for Don Jr., who was at the famous Trump Tower meeting in 2016, as well as Jared Kushner at that meeting. Paul Manafort was also at that meeting and now Paul Manafort is cooperating, and we have to assume that in exchange for the plea deal he got, he's agreeing to give some information that is of interest to the special counsel.

BLITZER: It's pretty extraordinary for a president to intervene and accuse someone who's already pleaded guilty of lying under oath.

GREGORY: Yes. It's going to be pretty hard for this president to separate himself from Michael Cohen with whom he worked so closely. But the frustration really reflects an old playbook. I mean, the Whitewater investigation began with a land deal in Arkansas and mushroomed into the president's relationship with an intern in the Oval Office. Of course with President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

So here's the president is using that Clinton playbook to go after a special prosecutor who may be lurching in all kinds of directions that he thinks is beyond the scope of the investigation. And well, at least try to muddy the water when it comes to Michael Cohen.

BLITZER: It's pretty extraordinary. All right, guys, stand by, there's more news we're watching right now.

Up next, fed up. The president says the biggest threat he's currently facing, get this, the biggest threat is the Central Bank and rising interest rates. Plus, if the GOP loses control of the House, don't look at President Trump. He's making it known it will not be his fault if Democrats come out on top. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:26] BLITZER: Twenty days to go until the midterm elections and President Trump is now distancing himself from potential GOP losses saying he won't be to blame if Democrats take control of the House of Representatives. The president who's been out there on the campaign tells the Associated Press, and I'm quoting him now, "No, I think I'm helping people. I don't believe anybody's ever had this kind of an impact."

But he also conceded that some of his supporters may simply not vote this November, saying, and once again I'm quoting the president, "There are many people that have said to me, I will never, ever go and vote in the midterms because you're not running and I don't think you like Congress. Well, I do like Congress." That's a quote from the president.

Joining us now CNN political analyst David Gregory still with us, and Karoun Demerjian, congressional reporter for the "Washington Post."

So do you think the president is helping a lot of these Republican candidates by going out and stumping, or is he hurting them?

GREGORY: Well, I actually think he has a point in this regard that the Trump voter who may not have voted in cycles past may not see the reason to come out. I think one of the reasons why the fallout from the Kavanaugh confirmation was important is that it gave Republicans a kind of a unifying message. They cut across conservatives and Trump voters to be galvanized to try to stop Democrats from taking power.

Up until then, if people thought the economy was going well, or that the president had been responsible for good policies, I don't think they necessarily felt a reason that they had to come out. I think we know that anger and fear is what really drives people in an election. But I think it's impossible for the president to say that it's not about him. I mean he has made this all about him, I think there's no question about the Democratic energy, the Democratic fear and loathing is all really about him.

BLITZER: That energy is reflected in money, Karoun. Money talks. We -- CNN took a close look at 28 House races considered tossups right now, determined that the Democratic candidates raced nearly $70 million from July through September. That's three times the roughly $21 million collected by the Republicans in those 28 House contests.

So how big of a battle is this going to be and is money going to be such an influential factor?

KAROUN DEMERJIAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Money is always an influential factor in any sort of a race because the more money you have the more ads you can buy at the last minute, the more people that you can get to, to turn out the vote effort at the last minute. I mean, look, it's important -- and you certainly see a lot of motivation driving these donations and driving the growing bank accounts. But as we saw in past cycles, it doesn't buy (INAUDIBLE) outraced the Republicans, they still didn't win. So a lot of it comes out to just, you know, can you have a message that motivates your base also.