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Trump Threatens to Close Border; Julian Castro on Elections; Trump on Budget Cuts; Food as Fuel; Ex-U.S. Diplomat Speaks of his Resignation. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 18, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:30:07] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump with a statement moments ago about a -- what he calls a caravan of migrants traveling through Central America and Mexico towards the United States. The president is threatening to send the U.S. military to the U.S.-Mexico border and close it. The president clearly wants to make the issue of illegal immigration an issue in the upcoming midterm elections, which are just 19 days away.

Joining us now, former housing secretary and former San Antonio mayor, Julian Castro. He has written a book out now called "An Unlikely Journey: Waking Up from My American Dream."

And the secretary also says he is a likely candidate for president. So we'll just get that out of the way. You've removed all the mystery that so many people have going forward.

Let me ask you about the president's comments. Sending troops to close the southern border. This comes after a "Washington Post" report that the number of migrants crossing the border in September at a high.

JULIAN CASTRO, FORMER HUD SECRETARY: Yes. The president continues to fear monger around the issue of immigration. You know, he knows that we're 19 days away from an election, and he's trying to use this issue to gin up his base.

Unfortunately, he hasn't shown that he has any real solutions to the challenge of immigration. I believe that we can have effective border security and enforcement and also treat people humanely.

One of the worst things that's happened in these last 18 months has been the -- basically state sponsored child abuse of young kids at the border. This family separation policy. So this example today of what he says is a caravan, you know, he's picking that and he's trying to make an issue of it to gin up his base. I think that the American people can see through that.

BERMAN: There may be a political element here. There almost surely is. But if the "Washington Post" numbers are accurate, that the September numbers jumped as much as they did, isn't there something going on? Isn't there something that is causing that increase?

CASTRO: Well, what it shows is that his policy has been totally ineffective, that he's been a total failure on this issue.

BERMAN: But he -- what he would say is that's because the Democrats won't let me do more. They won't let me build the wall.

CASTRO: No, I -- well, the Republicans control Congress. He controls the White House. His administration has been a total failure when it comes to the issue of immigration. He thought that he was going to deter people by cruelly taking away their children. They said that's why they did the policy. He said that that would lead to less folks trying to come across, and it has failed. So we tried it his way. It's failed. Now I think that we should try it a smart way.

The other thing that we need to do in the long term --

BERMAN: What's the smart way? What's the smart way?

CASTRO: Well, I think, in the long-term, what we need to do is that we need to forge the kind of alliances in Central and South America that we spent post World War II forging in places like Europe, the very alliances that he's trying to tear down right now. But we have never, as the United States, invested the time and energy in a long-term way in helping to make sure that we can avoid issues like this because people can be safe in whether it's Guatemala or Honduras or El Salvador.

BERMAN: One of the things that's interesting, as we approach the midterm elections, and I don't want to over generalize here, is that people looking at the last few months have said, oh, well the president's border policy, that's going to upset Latino voters in the United States. They're going to come out in droves to vote against the president and the Republicans.

Well, our polling just hasn't shown that. As we look at a lot of the midterm polls, Latinos in Texas, in your home state, are not coming out in the numbers that they would need to, to elect Beto O'Rourke. And we're seeing the same thing to an extent in Florida and California. Why do you -- how can you explain that?

CASTRO: Well, I think there are two elements to that. First, in the breakdown of support, I believe that Latinos are going to overwhelmingly support Democratic candidates. But, secondly, you're right, that the participation level, the percentage that go to the polls, not just in this election cycle but for many of them, has not been where we'd like it to be. And I believe the best way to change that is with a massive and sustained effort to register and to turn out Latino voters, and that that can't be the job of a few candidates, and it can't just be done six months before an election. It has to be a constant effort. And until that's done, I'm not convinced that you're going to see a huge change in those numbers.

BERMAN: Congressman Steve King of Iowa has talked in the past about you and your brother, who's a congressman for Texas. And last week he says on Twitter, two Texas politicians, Joaquin and Julian, the Castro twins, they took Spanish lessons to qualify as retroactive Hispanics. How do you respond to the congressman? CASTRO: He said that a couple days before I went into his district to

help support J.D. Scholten, a really amazing young man who is running in Iowa's 4th congressional district and who actually has a chance of winning, who may well win and beat Steve King on November 6th. And politicians, when they know that they're in trouble, what they try and do is they try and distract folks.

[08:35:15] I mean how many times have folks seen that a politician, you know, they want to talk about everything else except what the problem is. And for Steve King, what the problem is, is that right now a lot of the farmers and other folks in his district are worried because Donald Trump's erratic trade war is hurting them, and he has stood idly by while Trump has done this. And those constituents, I think, are looking at J.D. Scholten as a good alternative.

So he gets worried. He does what he usually does. He throws in this bigotry. What I say to Steve King is that, we'll see you on November 6th.

BERMAN: You know, he's essentially saying you're not a real Hispanic and you're not taking the bait?

CASTRO: Look, I'm confident in who I am. What's clear is that Steve King is trying to distract people. So, you know, I don't think that we need to focus on that. We should focus on his record.

BERMAN: What's interesting, you juxtaposed that with what Elizabeth Warren just did, which is -- you know, she took DNA tests to try to show that she had Native American heritage. How do you assess that? And just from a purely political maneuver, do you think that was effective?

CASTRO: You know, it's unfortunate that she felt like she had to do that because the president has been terrible in, I think, smearing her reputation. You know, she never should have been put in that position. It's also significant because the president, Trump, started his political career basically with that birther issue. And this is just another form of that. So --

BERMAN: Do you think it's good -- it was helpful for Democrats for her to do it, though, 25 days before the election?

CASTRO: You know, I don't think it's here or there right now to talk about that.

BERMAN: OK.

CASTRO: What we need to recognize is whether it's the president that's calling a woman horseface or, you know, embracing that birther issue against the first African-American president a few years ago, or calling Senator Warren Pocahontas in a derogatory way, that is not what we should be about as a country.

BERMAN: I want to ask you one story in your book here. I am the father -- disclosure here -- of identical twin boys, 11 year old identical twin boys, and I look at you and your brother as an example of how they might reach adulthood without going to prison. There's a slim chance. There's a slim chance it might happen.

CASTRO: Although that's kind of a low bar.

BERMAN: You have a story in here, though, about the dispute resolution you would have with your brother, which is, you would stand across from each other and punch each other in the shoulders for a long time and then compare bruises?

CASTRO: Yes. I mean, you know, when we were 10, 11, or 12 and you're twins and you're boys, you're going to be fighting a lot, especially if you're exactly the same age and, you know, you're fighting for who's going to get to watch what on TV or who's going to eat the last, you know, burger or whatever.

And so in order to avoid like killing each other, we had to come up with some way to, you know, fairly resolve our disputes. And we would sit -- we would stand there sometimes for an hour taking turns hitting each other as hard as we could on the shoulder. My shoulder is probably still bruised so -- you know, because of that. But we came up with our own way. And for those -- you know, if you have twins, or if -- folks who are twins will know that it is a very wonderful and special relationship. A lot of times better than that, you know?

BERMAN: I just love that, the Castro fight club. And I'm glad my boys are already in school and not watching it.

Julian Castro, Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

CASTRO: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The GOP tax cut sent the deficit -- helped to send the deficit soaring. Up next, how the president wants his cabinet secretaries to help make up that difference.

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[08:43:16] HILL: Time now for "CNN Business Now."

The federal government is running its largest deficit in six years. President Trump, though, has some ideas about how to make up the difference.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with more on that plan.

Good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

The president wants his cabinet to trim their budgets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would like you to come back with a 5 percent cut. Get rid of the fat. Get rid of the waste. That's a very, very important request that I'm making of everybody sitting around this table.

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ROMANS: Trump told his cabinet meeting that some people at the table could cut substantially more. Here's the issue, the deficit is up 17 percent this year to $779 billion. That's the worst since 2012 when the country was deficit spending to save the economy. The problem now, the economy is roaring and the U.S. is spending way more than it takes in, largely thanks to the president's tax cut. Tax revenue flat this year. Corporate tax collection down $76 billion. Meanwhile, spending increased. Mainly deficit spending.

The White House says it will eventually cut wasteful spending to make up the difference, but progressives are nervous. They fear that means cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And then this, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says it's time to look at those so- called entitlements.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: There's been a bipartisan reluctance to tackle entitlement changes because of the popularity of those programs. Hopefully, at some point here, we'll get serious about this.

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ROMANS: Those three programs make up 70 percent of the U.S. budget.

Erica.

HILL: Christine, thank you.

A former U.S. ambassador now speaking out about why he quit the Trump administration. He's with us, next.

BERMAN: But first, the truth about pumpkin spice in today's "Food as Fuel."

[08:45:02] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH WRITER: Pumpkins are much more than just a seasonal favorite. They're also healthy if prepared the right way.

The winter squash is naturally low in calories, fat and sodium and high in antioxidants and fiber, the stuff that helps you feel full. Pumpkin has lots of beta-carotene, which the body converts to Vitamin A. A single cup has more than enough to meet most people's daily recommended amount, which is essential for healthy teeth, skin, bones and eyes.

Beyond pumpkin flesh, pumpkin seeds are also good for you. They're rich in protein and some studies suggest they help control blood sugar.

But be warned, just because something is pumpkin flavored doesn't mean it has the same health benefits. For instance, canned pumpkin pie filling comes presweetened. That means extra sugar and calories. And if you like pumpkin spice products, keep in mind, many of those foods and drinks don't contain any pumpkin at all. So it's worth checking the label.

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[08:50:10] HILL: Veteran Diplomat James Melville spent more than 30 years in America's foreign service, most recently serving as U.S. ambassador to Estonia. But he recently resigned over comments the president made praising authoritarian regimes.

Ambassador James Melville joins us now.

Good to have you with us.

JAMES MELVILLE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ESTONIA: Thank you, Erica. Nice to be here.

HILL: So you resigned over the summer, but you just laid out, earlier this month for "The Washington Post," in an op-ed, your reasons for leaving.

MELVILLE: Right.

HILL: And you said it was the honorable thing to do. So what was your breaking point?

MELVILLE: Well, my breaking point was really the fact that the president, in his rhetoric, was incorrect in the way he was characterizing our relationship with our European allies, the nature of the NATO alliance, the history and the founding of the European Union and why it is that the United States has such an important leadership role in the transatlantic. And this whole shift from a value based language on U.S. priorities and the U.S. mission to this kind of transactional relationship that he seems more comfortable with made me uncomfortable as his personal representative. And that's the job of an ambassador is to, besides representing your country, you are the president's personal representative.

So, he's the president. He gets to lead. He gets to call the policy. And so I stepped out of the way.

HILL: Because you weren't comfortable with where that policy was going.

You also write, arrogance does not suit us well. America first is a sham.

The president, though, could offer you some pushback in saying, look, I'm changing the way things have been done because it wasn't working. And look at what I got to happen. You know, tensions have decreased with North Korea. Look at NATO. People are going to pay more. Members are going to pay more. Those are wins in his book. So maybe this is a way to change things moving into this century.

MELVILLE: Well, the whole subject of NATO burden sharing goes back many, many decades, as a matter of fact. And the alliance in 2014 had come to an agreement in response to the revanchism (ph) that was coming from Russia. There's a responsibility and a premium that comes with the leadership role. And anyone in the business world understands that to have a controlling stake in a company makes it more valuable and perhaps costs you a little bit more but it's worth a lot more. And the leadership role of the United States in NATO goes back many, many decades. The peace and the prosperity that Europe enjoys, that the transatlantic enjoys, came at a price. And I think it's well worth that price. But it is true that the United States has paid more than its proportionate share. But I would -- I would submit that we get a lot more out of it.

HILL: So you think we should have stayed with the status quo in that respect?

MELVILLE: Well, no. I think encouraging our allies --

HILL: To pay more.

MELVILLE: To pay more. And I was ambassador in Estonia, which actually is one of the countries that has always lived up to its promises to contribute a share of its GDP towards its defense needs. And that's the other thing about the way the president talks about NATO. It's almost as if it's some sort of apartment building that he owns and that everybody owes rent. And, in fact, that's not the way it works. And I believe he knows that.

HILL: I want to get your take on what we're seeing today. So you also write in this piece for "The Washington Post" that you wanted to use your voice to advocate policies more in accord with our history, our values, the global good.

MELVILLE: Right.

HILL: We see a picture of Secretary Pompeo smiling next to the crown prince in Saudi Arabia. "The New York Times" this morning reporting that U.S. intelligence is increasingly concerned that MBS is culpable here when it comes to the apparent murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

When you see that image, when you see the way things have been playing out between the president and Saudi Arabia, is this in accord with our history, our values, global good?

MELVILLE: No, I would say it's not. First of all, I don't understand why it's the United States that should be playing a part in cleaning up of this mess that was created completely by the Saudis. And, you know, there is an old Latin maxim, let justice be done though the heavens fall. And I think the truth is really what we need to find out. And I think the calls for an independent commission to find out exactly what happened would be a necessary first step. But leaving it to the Saudis to investigate is ridiculous.

HILL: Based on your 30 plus years of experience, what is the U.S. standing right now? How is the U.S. viewed around the world diplomatically?

MELVILLE: Well, it's a bit like walking on eggshells for a diplomat to answer a question like that. The United States has always had the respect of the world. And -- because of our economic power and because of our military power, but mostly because of our history and our values and all that we've brought to the world.

[08:55:05] And the question about which direction our leadership is going to take is very disturbing because, you know, I said for many years that U.S. interests don't change. And our interests are in a rules based order. It's the one we created. It's the one that we've championed for decades. And to create this idea that we're moving to a more transactional sort of relationship and closer to countries that don't share those values is very disturbing.

HILL: I, really quickly, just want to get your take on this. You wrote about that anonymous op-ed in "The New York Times." Saying you have no sympathy or understanding for those who remain in service while claiming to be ignoring or otherwise violating their instructions. Going on to say, the approach of this an anonymous op-ed is devoid of integrity. It seems cowardly to me.

MELVILLE: Right.

HILL: You wouldn't have done it. Do you have any idea of who may have done it and whether that person is still --

MELVILLE: No -- no idea whatsoever. No idea. I doubt very much it was a career foreign service officer, though.

HILL: All right, James Melville. Ambassador, appreciate you taking the time to join us today. Thank you.

MELVILLE: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: New developments in the apparent murder of a "Washington Post" journalist. We have that, next.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning, everyone. 9:00 a.m. Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

[09:00:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto. Less than three days after sending Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on a fact finding mission to Saudi Arabia and to Turkey, President Trump is about to hear the results. Mike Pompeo due in the Oval Office in the next hour amid continued denials from the Saudis.