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Lewinsky Speaks Out; Kasich Running for President; Former Linebacker Comes out as Gay. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 16, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:55] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "The Clinton Affair," which is a six part, three night documentary event, premiers Sunday night on A&E. The series delves into the relationship between President Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, tracing the events that culminated in Bill Clinton's impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA LEWINSKY: He, you know, paid a lot of attention to me. He spent time sort of standing there and held my hand longer than she should have and gave what others have described as the full Bill Clinton. It feels as if you're the only person standing there.

The next day, we had a surprise party for Bill on the South Lawn that the staff was having. I did this really silly thing. I ran home at lunchtime and I put back on the sage green suit I had been wearing the day before when he paid attention to me. And I thought, well, maybe he'll notice me again. And notice me he did.

Over the course of the rest of August and September and October and into November, we had a number of these flirtatious encounters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now are the executive producers of "The Clinton Affair," Academy Award and Emmy winner Alex Gibney, and Emmy winner Blair Foster.

First of all, the fact that it's called "The Clinton Affair" and not the Clinton/Lewinsky affair I think is an interesting choice and I think speaks to where we are today after all this time. And Monica Lewinsky, you interviewed her for 20 hours. Twenty hours. The whole documentary is only six and a half hours long. But 20 hours. I find her voice today, given where we are, to be so thoughtful, introspect and just fascinating.

ALEX GIBNEY, CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE CLINTON AFFAIR": I agree. And, I mean, she's a -- look, she's been through a lot. And she had become a kind of poster child of all of these stereotypes that were forced on her. She was never allowed to speak for herself for all sorts of legal reasons. And imagine having your life taken over, in effect, by the legal process and the media and being caricatured. Now she's been able to come back, recapture her own life and is a very thoughtful and articulate person.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And so, Blair, how did you get her to participate and talk? She's been so quite. So many people have wanted to interview her. I'm familiar with some of your powers of persuasion. I know that you guys produce fantastic documentaries. But this was a tough one. So why did she decide this time to tell her story?

BLAIR FOSTER, CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE CLINTON AFFAIR": That's a good question. I like to say that we're politely relentless in our pursuit of interviews. I think she knew that this was the 20th anniversary of the impeachment, and so she knew that there were going to be -- you know, there was going to be a lot of talk about this. And Alex had worked with a -- our executive producer, Joann Macon (ph), on a film about Julian Assange, WikiLeaks, and Joann knew Monica and she put the two of them together. And, you know, Alex can speak to this, but I think Monica felt like -- it was very important. The series is really not just about Monica.

BERMAN: Right.

[08:35:02] FOSTER: It's about all of the events leading to the impeachment. And that was one of the things that was really revelatory to me. Monica's sort of the end of the story, really. There's we -- there's so much more there. In particular, Paula Jones and that lawsuit and how Monica gets swept up into it. And so she was very clear from the start that she wanted to be a part of the larger narrative.

CAMEROTA: And so was she just ready? Had the time come, Alex, or was she not ready and you convinced her?

GIBNEY: I think the time -- well, I think she was on the verge of being ready, and we were able to have a conversation. And I think she felt that we would respect her testimony. And I think she was also encouraged by the idea that it wasn't going to be just her story, that she was going to be a part of this larger narrative. But within that context, I think she was ready to tell her tale.

BERMAN: You know, in, look, I worked at ABC News during the time, and to say that it was -- gripped the nation's attention for months would be an understatement. And we learned so much at the time. But to hear about it now, you learn even more and in greater detail. The idea that she was more or less swept away and kept in seclusion, almost held hostage when she was first approached by authorities.

FOSTER: The story -- it's an incredible story. On January 16th, she's met at the Pentagon Mall by members of the FBI and the independent counsel. They want to question her. They're hoping to get her cooperation in try -- in their investigation against the president. They take her to a hotel room. She's free to leave at any moment, but -- at any time, but --

GIBNEY: Free to leave.

FOSTER: Free to leave, but, you know, you're 20, 23 years old and you're in a hotel room with the FBI and the independent counsel -- GIBNEY: They're threatening her with massive amounts of jail time.

BERMAN: And her mother to boot.

GIBNEY: Exactly. Exactly. She tries to call her lawyer. They're concerned her lawyer is in on an kind of nefarious deeds. They discourage that, or they certainly don't encourage that. She wants to call her mom. Finally she's allowed to call her mom. Her mom essentially comes and gets her. And she has -- after an entire day spent with them.

CAMEROTA: It's so fascinating, obviously, through 2018 to look -- put that lens over what happened 20 years ago. And, you know, she, Monica, has -- had been insightful about who was she and do we see her as victim or vixen. And that has always been the debate, but everybody cast her without her participation. You know, she -- she didn't get to weigh in until now. And so that's why it's so interesting and so relevant to hear what her thoughts are on all of this.

Before we let you go, we want to ask you about Julian Assange. You did, in 2013, an exhaustive documentary on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. And so the idea that he has been charged, or that charges are been filed, what are your thought -- we don't know really.

GIBNEY: Maybe. I mean I think I -- I looked at the legal documents today.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GIBNEY: And it appears that Assange's name has been pasted in to a request to seal documents for somebody else.

CAMEROTA: It's a cut and paste mistake, maybe.

GIBNEY: It looks like. But we do know that the federal government has been trying to figure out a way to charge Assange. They have just been trying to figure out a way to charge Assange that wouldn't put him in the same box as "The New York Times" because he's a publisher, in effect, and if you publish documents, you can't charge somebody for that and not charge "The New York Times" for doing the same thing.

So it's unclear what will happen and what those charges are. But it is interesting that his name popped up in this -- in this new document. So maybe that indicates that there -- there's a lot of cut and pasting with Assange's name going on in the federal government at the moment.

CAMEROTA: Maybe. People should revisit that, now, too, because it is so relevant.

GIBNEY: And that's a story that's changed from the way we all thought it was at the beginning.

CAMEROTA: Indeed.

Julie -- Alex Gibney, Blair Foster, two great documents that everybody should absolutely watch, the Monica Lewinsky -- "The Clinton Affair" is what it is called on A&E. Thank you both so much for talking to us.

GIBNEY: Thank you. A pleasure.

FOSTER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, he's about to leave his post as Ohio's governor and he is making a trip to New Hampshire. So is Republican John Kasich ready to challenge his own party's president? We ask him, next.

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[08:42:57] CAMEROTA: Outgoing Ohio Governor John Kasich is shaking hands and hitting the diner circuit again in New Hampshire, but he's not quite ready to make that leap into calling himself a presidential candidate, or is he?

CNN's Joe Johns went to the granite state to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: If I run for president again --

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): John Kasich is keeping his followers in the granite state in suspense.

KASICH: All the options are on the table. It's just you have to make a decision when you think that you can make a big impact.

JOHNS: For the second time this year, the Ohio governor visiting New Hampshire, home of the first in the nation presidential primary. As yet, no answer on whether he's in or out of the race for the White House in 2020, though this trip had the feel of a campaign swing, complete with our sit down in a diner.

KASICH: I don't really know exactly what the timeline will be, but there will be a time when I have to decide. But it is not today.

JOHNS: Kasich came in a distant second here to Donald Trump in 2016. He's one of a few Republicans who is highly and openly critical of the president.

KASICH: Oh, my gosh!

JOHNS: It's rare for a challenger with real name recognition to go on the campaign trail against an incumbent president from his or her own party. In the meantime, Kasich is also stirring up a conversation about whether the results of the midterm elections opened the door for an independent presidential candidate.

KASICH: I think there's a vast ocean in the middle. And I think the middle has been numb. They don't know what to do. But they did something they hadn't done in 100 years. They voted.

So in an era of all this change, why wouldn't we think there couldn't be fundamental political change? I think it's very possible. JOHNS: Those last words before an audience at the Nackey Loeb First

Amendment Awards in Manchester, hosted by the influential publisher of "The Union Leader" newspaper, not lost in memory that four years ago a private businessman named Donald Trump was the speaker.

Joe Johns, CNN, Manchester.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Joe for that.

So the state of Oklahoma has the highest incarceration rate of women in the United States and has had it for more than 25 years. But one high school English teacher is giving some of these women a voice and the power to heal themselves. Meet Ellen Stackable, a 2018 top ten CNN Hero.

[08:45:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLEN STACKABLE, CNN HERO: There is a lot of feelings in prison. You don't get to feel them. You are not a person, and your feelings are not valid.

Many of the women that are incarcerated have been victims of some kind of abuse. We provide a safe place for them to overcome trauma and pain. So it is so much more than just writing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Learning to change my mind of abuse to a life of glory.

STACKABLE: It becomes a therapeutic way for healing to occur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Ellen's program "Poetic Justice," is in five female prisons in Oklahoma, reaching more than 2,500 women. You can go to cnnheroes.com right now to vote for her for CNN Hero of the Year or for any of your top favorite CNN Heroes.

CAMEROTA: OK, a retired football player is set to make history off the field. Why a former Dallas Cowboy is coming forward as the first NFL player in a same sex marriage. He's next.

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[08:50:34] BERMAN: Former Dallas Cowboys linebacker Jeff Rohrer will become the first known former NFL player to be in a same sex marriage. In a "New York Times" interview this week, Rohrer revealed that he is gay. He marries Joshua Ross on Sunday.

And joining me now are Jeff Rohrer and Joshua Ross.

Gentlemen, congratulations to both of you. Thank you so much for being with us today.

And, Jeff, let me just ask you straight out, when you started telling people about this, what was the reaction? I read you said, I've given at least five people heart attacks with this news.

JEFF ROHRER, FORMER DALLAS COWBOYS LINEBACKER: Yes. Well, that's for sure. And even more yesterday when the -- you know, when the news came. But yesterday was amazing. There was so many people calling and reaching out and being so kind and supportive that I was -- I think it set the record for most times I've cried in one day. It's amazing.

JOSHUA ROSS: Yes.

BERMAN: Crying for a good reason, I imagine.

ROSS: Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: And, Josh, again, as we're looking at the pictures of the two of you, did you ever think you'd be marrying a former NFL linebacker?

ROSS: I didn't think I'd ever get married. When I met Jeff, I had no idea he played football. He kind of hid that from me. I don't think (INAUDIBLE). And then it was kind of like, so. And then I found out he had two children, so it was another gulp. But we're here and we're in love. And we're here where we are. And we're happy. We're excited.

BERMAN: And where we are, all of us in 2018, is just such a different place than even we were 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, Jeff, when you were playing football. What would have happened?

ROHRER: Yes, it was -- it's, you know, it's a different time.

BERMAN: What would Coach Landry have said? You know, if you -- if you had gone to the Cowboys, what would they have said?

ROHRER: Well, I wouldn't have been a cowboy, to begin with. You know, that was -- I was drafted in '82. And, you know, it was a different time back then. You know, people were just different. And being gay was not part of any kind of narrative.

And, today, with the millennials, and certainly, you know, I've got two teenage kids, everybody is extremely supportive. Almost, you know, to a person. There's very, very few people that have come out against this, and we really appreciate that.

BERMAN: You said you set the record yesterday for maybe number of times crying in one day. Why?

ROHRER: Yes.

BERMAN: What got to you?

ROHRER: Yes. You know, because you just don't expect it. Honestly, like I didn't expect the -- I didn't expect the kind of love and kindness from all the friends and family and ex-teammates from Yale to Dallas who were all reaching out. Just randomly the phone would ring and I wouldn't know a number and I would go, I've got to take this. And I'd take it. And it would be somebody I haven't talked to in 20 years. And I think that says a lot for the way that society is changing for the good. And we were talking last night and it was just like we were saying, you're either on the train or you're left at the station. And if you're left at the station, you're like an antique. So for those people that aren't OK with this, then you can stay at the station, but we're going that way.

BERMAN: You know, you are a former NFL player. I don't believe there's any current NFL player who's out and gay at this point acknowledging that. When do you think we'll get to a point when a current NFL player will feel comfortable, or we'll see a current player in a same sex marriage?

ROHRER: Maybe tomorrow after this interview. You know, somebody has to break the ice. And it's not -- you know, it's not the reason Josh and I did it. We did it because, you know, we fell in love and wanted to get married. And -- but, you know, this hopefully will, you know, open the door for other people to feel more comfortable knowing that people are supportive, right?

ROSS: Right.

BERMAN: And, Jeff, just last question. You know, you played a whole career. You were married. You had kids. And only got involved with Josh, you know, in the last few years. Only been comfortable being out the last few years. Do you think back over your entire life and think, you know, what might have been -- what might have been?

ROHRER: You know what, I wouldn't change one thing for a couple reasons. One, because I wouldn't be sitting here with Joshua. And, two, is I love my ex-wife. I love my kids. We're one big, happy family still. There's so much love in the house. And Joshua is a big part of that now. And I wouldn't change a thing.

[08:55:17] And, you know, had I -- had I come out and done it differently, you know, things would be different. And that's OK, too. But my story is one that happened to me later in life. There's plenty of people, like Joshua, that, you know, came out young in life, and that's great for them. But for me it was a different story. And because of my family and my life, I've been so fortunate with the people that I've met and I've been around that I wouldn't change a thing.

BERMAN: Jeff, Josh, we wish you all the happiness in the world. We hope you have great weather for the ceremony this weekend. Thanks so much for being with us.

ROSS: Thank you.

ROHRER: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, "The Good Stuff" is next.

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CAMEROTA: OK, time now for "The Good Stuff."

[08:59:46] Some heartwarming news to share to kick off your weekend. You might remember the little boy known as "Batkid." There he is. Miles Scott was diagnosed with leukemia when he was an infant. Look at how cute he is. He captured the hearts across the country when at five years old the Make A Wish Foundation made his dream of becoming a superhero come true. They allowed him to fight crime in San Francisco.