Return to Transcripts main page

EARLY START

Special Counsel Mueller Recommends No Jail Time For Michael Flynn; State Funeral Today For President George H.W. Bush; Dow Plunges 799 Points As Trade Hopes Fade; CIA's Haspel Briefs Lawmakers On Jamal Khashoggi Murder. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired December 5, 2018 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:30:51] DAVE BRIGGS, CNN ANCHOR: Don't lock him up. Robert Mueller recommends no prison time for Michael Flynn because of substantial help with the special counsel.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: And there they are, waiting for this national day of mourning. The state funeral this morning for the late President George Herbert Walker Bush, and all of those well-wishers gathered.

BRIGGS: Stocks take a big tumble. Wall Street realizes the trade war with China is far from over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: If he was in front of a jury he would be convicted in 30 minutes.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: There's not a smoking gun, there's a smoking saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Republican senators furious after a CIA briefing on the Jamal Khashoggi murder. The relationship with Riyadh now under renewed scrutiny.

Welcome back to EARLY START this morning. I'm Christine Romans.

BRIGGS: Boy, that was some significant pushback from those Republican senators.

ROMANS: Yes, I'd say so.

BRIGGS: Good morning, everybody. I'm Dave Briggs on a hump day -- 5:31 Eastern time.

We start with the breaking news overnight that special counsel Robert Mueller recommending no jail time for President Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn because of substantial help in the Russia probe. Much of what Flynn told the special counsel remains shrouded in secrecy. The report was heavily redacted but Mueller does say Flynn's early cooperation convinced others to be forthcoming and that Flynn's lies about the contacts with the Russian ambassador in late 2016 were repeated by senior Trump transition team members.

ROMANS: Flynn's full account of events has been one of the best-kept secrets in Washington as Mueller puts together the final pieces of his case.

More now from CNN's Sara Murray in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christine and Dave.

President Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn has provided quote, "substantial assistance to the Russia investigation and should not get jail time."

That's the big news from special counsel Robert Mueller's court filing on Tuesday night. Now, the filing, a sentencing memo, comes after Flynn has cooperated with Mueller's team for more than a year, sitting for 19 interviews with the special counsel and other Justice Department offices.

The memo appears to show that Flynn helped the Justice Department with at least three ongoing investigations. References to two of those investigations are almost completely redacted.

Now, Flynn also cooperated with the special counsel's investigation into links or coordination between the Russian government and members of the Trump campaign, as well as interactions between the Trump transition team and Russia.

The former revelations come amid this flurry of activity from the special counsel's team. Last week, Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to lying to Congress. And prosecutors accused former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort of lying to the special counsel and violating his cooperation agreement.

Now, as for Flynn, he was a fixture with Trump on the 2016 campaign trail, even leading a "lock her up" Hillary Clinton chant at the Republican National Convention.

His stint as a national security adviser in the White House, though, that was brief. He was fired more than two weeks after then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates told the White House that Flynn lied about his communications with the Russian ambassador and could be blackmailed by the Russians.

Flynn is set to be sentenced on December 18th in D.C. federal court.

Back to you guys.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: All right, Sara Murray. Thank you, Sara.

Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani apparently not concerned about whatever Michael Flynn shared with Mueller's team. Giuliani telling "NBC NEWS" quote, "They don't have bupkis." He said if Flynn had information that could hurt the president you would know it by now.

BRIGGS: All right, let's bring in CNN legal analyst Elie Honig. He's a former federal prosecutor and former assistant attorney general for the New Jersey Division of Criminal Justice.

Good morning to you, sir.

ROMANS: Good morning.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, NEW JERSEY DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Good morning.

BRIGGS: A bonus for every time you factor in bupkis in the next segment.

HONIG: I know some Yiddish.

BRIGGS: You get an extra cup of coffee from us.

Much of this is behind bars -- pun very much intended -- so what is the most important words that we can read from this document?

HONIG: Three words there -- several ongoing investigations, right? There certainly is a lot of mystery. A lot of --

BRIGGS: Yes.

HONIG: -- black ink, a lot of redacting.

But several ongoing investigations tell us that Flynn has cooperated on investigations -- plural, more than one -- and Mueller does lay out those investigations to some extent. We do know that he provided some information on Russian collusion -- collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. He says that and then he redacts out all the details.

[05:35:06] And, ongoing. Ongoing means they're ongoing as we still have not yet seen the outcome of those investigations. So this is really a sort of more to come-type document.

BRIGGS: And one of them is a criminal investigation, as we read on page 2A. What are we to make of that -- criminal investigation?

HONIG: That is the mystery case --

BRIGGS: OK.

HONIG: -- and it says this criminal investigation -- and there's 31 lines of just redaction. ROMANS: Right.

HONIG: One thing to understand about the redactions, though, that we see in this document, the judge has a clean copy. The judge has a copy that is not redacted so he has all the information.

And I do think it's important that now this information, whether it ever comes out -- even if the worst happens to Mueller and he gets fired or whatever -- this information is now in the hands of the court, so it's sort of beyond the control of the Department of Justice.

BRIGGS: Right.

ROMANS: What's the most important thing that we did not learn in the -- in these documents here?

HONIG: Any details. I mean, you know, every one -- well, the big question is who is he cooperating as? Who's going to be next up? And it doesn't say that specifically. I think you can draw some general inferences.

Again --

ROMANS: Like who was on the transition team, for example.

HONIG: Sure.

ROMANS: I mean, that's one thing that we learned here that Flynn says that he shared some of these details with other people on the transition team.

HONIG: Right. And another important hint that comes out of this is Mueller says that Flynn gave him firsthand information, right, and that's important. Firsthand means Flynn was in the room. He's testifying about things that he was directly involved in.

Cooperators sometimes don't have that. Sometimes they have secondhand information, hearsay information, things they heard through the grapevine. That's far less useful to a prosecutor than firsthand information from someone who can tell you I was in the room with A, B, C, and D and we decided to do this.

BRIGGS: Yes, and I think Christine is referencing that December 29th call to Mar-a-Lago -- a Trump transition team member. We don't know who that is or why that call was placed.

Michael Flynn met with the special counsel or DOJ attorneys 19 times.

HONIG: Yes.

ROMANS: Nineteen times.

BRIGGS: Nineteen times. Is that unusual?

HONIG: That is a lot. Well, I tried to think back. I was a prosecutor for 14 years and I

thought did I ever meet with any one cooperator 19 times? Maybe someone who was getting ready for trial, but even that -- I mean, 19 times is an awful lot of times to meet with a cooperator. He obviously had an awful lot of refreshers (ph).

Look, they adjourned -- postponed his sentencing four times over the course of a year. That's a lot. That's a lot of times to hold it up, and you hold it up sort of as long as you think the judge will tolerate it. So, 19 times is really extraordinary.

ROMANS: So fit this into the big picture for us because when you look at who surrounded the president -- Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn now -- fit this into the narrative of who had surrounded the president and how much information Mueller's team was getting from these people.

BRIGGS: And that fact that Papadopoulos will do jail time --

ROMANS: Yes.

BRIGGS: -- and Flynn recommended little or none.

HONIG: Yes.

ROMANS: I think George Papadopoulos is in jail right now.

BRIGGS: Is doing jail time.

HONIG: He's -- yes, until next week.

BRIGGS: Yes.

HONIG: So yes, I draw a couple of things out of this.

First of all, virtually everybody in that inner circle has now pled guilty to some crime or other -- all the people you just listed. Most of them have cooperated or tried to cooperate.

What's a little different about Flynn is he has cooperated fully successfully --

ROMANS: From the beginning.

HONIG: -- from the beginning, and you can see that in the memo. Sometimes cooperators are a mixed bag, sometimes they lie once or twice, and Mueller has been very demanding of his cooperators.

The memo he put in for Papadopoulos was not positive --

ROMANS: Yes.

HONIG: -- for Papadopoulos. He asked for jail time -- some jail time for Papadopoulos.

We saw last week he blew up Manafort altogether. He said this guy lied to us. We're done with him and we're going to tell you how.

This is -- this is all good news for Flynn. Mueller fully endorses him and says he's been -- he's been real and good for us.

BRIGGS: And now, to the bupkis portion of --

HONIG: Yes.

BRIGGS: -- this segment. If you are Trump's attorneys, what do you make of this memo?

HONIG: I'd be nervous. Look, Rudy's putting on his brave face, which he's done throughout this, and he kind of has to do that. I'd be nervous.

I'd be -- look, the fact that Flynn did give information on what we're calling collusion -- Mueller says yes, he did give us information on that.

It's possible Flynn could have gone in there and said I really don't know anything about us coordinating the campaign, coordinating with the hackers -- with the Russians. But he said the opposite. He said yes, he -- he clearly said yes, there was some connection.

I'd be nervous about that. I'd be definitely nervous about this mystery investigation, as I call it -- mystery criminal investigation. So, it should cause some alarm in the Trump camp.

But I understand what Rudy is doing.

ROMANS: Yes.

HONIG: He's got to -- he's got to act --

BRIGGS: Sure.

HONIG: -- you know, sort of nonchalant about it.

ROMANS: Elie Honig, so nice to have your expertise this morning.

HONIG: Any time.

ROMANS: Thank you so much.

BRIGGS: It sure is. Thank you, sir.

HONIG: Thanks.

ROMANS: All right, it is a national day of mourning in the United States. Today, former President George Herbert Walker Bush will be honored with a state funeral at the National Cathedral.

You're looking at live pictures at this early hour inside the Capitol Rotunda. Thousands of friends, former colleagues, and everyday Americans have been lining up to pay final respects at the Capitol where Bush 41 has been lying in state. Last night, members of the Bush family returned there. George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, pausing at the casket and later greeting members of the public.

[05:40:00] BRIGGS: Earlier in the day, a poignant moment as former Sen. Bob Dole helped out of his wheelchair for one final salute to the former president. What an impactful, emotional moment that was.

And another moment that brought a smile to many people's faces -- Sully, President Bush's loyal service dog, pausing before his casket.

Today, current and former presidents and world leaders will attend a service to commemorate the life of America's 41st president.

On Tuesday, first lady Melania Trump hosted a White House tour for about 20 members of the Bush family.

Tonight, Mr. Bush's body will be taken back to his home state of Texas where he will lie in repose until he is buried tomorrow.

ROMANS: All right.

U.S. financial markets will be closed today to honor the late president, and the respite welcomed.

The Dow tumbled 799 points, 3.1 percent Tuesday, the worst day for the Dow since October 10th when it lost 832 points. The Nasdaq closed down 3.8 percent. The S&P 500 fell 3.2 percent.

So, 799 points sounds scary and in point terms, it was the fourth- largest drop ever. In percentage terms, that's 3.1 percent. Certainly a bad day but it ranks as only the 329th worst day ever percentage wise.

Two things took down stocks here. One, the realization the trade war with China is not over. There is a mountain of hard work to do and the president's boasts of progress not matched by the Chinese rhetoric.

The stock market loss was actually accelerated when the president called himself "tariff man" in a tweetstorm.

TEXT: "I am a tariff man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power. We are right now taking in billions in tariffs. Make America rich again."

ROMANS: Second, a technical move in the bond market that in the past has signaled a slowing economy or even a recession. It's called in inverted yield curve. That scared the stock market, too.

Perspective here, though. Stocks are still higher for the year. The Dow up 3 1/2 percent, the S&P 500 up just about three percent, and the Nasdaq composite up 5.8 percent this year.

BRIGGS: Republican senators outraged after a classified briefing from CIA Director Gina Haspel about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

Bob Corker of Tennessee and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina leading the charge against Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. They want him held accountable for his involvement in the killing of the "Washington Post" journalist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORKER: I have zero question in my mind that the crown prince MBS ordered the killing, monitored the killing, knew exactly what was happening, and planned it in advance. If he was in front of a jury he would be convicted in 30 minutes.

GRAHAM: There's not a smoking gun, there's a smoking saw. You have to be willfully blind not to come to the conclusion that this was orchestrated and organized by people under the command of MBS and that he was intricately involved in the demise of Mr. Khashoggi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

The smoking gun line a veiled shot at Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State.

Senator Graham went on to say he can no longer do business with Saudi Arabia if the crazy crown prince is still running the country.

Let's go live to Abu Dhabi and bring in CNN's Sam Kiley for some international reaction. Sam, hi there.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, interesting, too, that -- Dave, that Sen. Graham drew attention to the Pompeo- Mattis roles as quote "good soldiers." In other words, they were representing what the commander in chief thought, perhaps not what they thought.

So there is a serious disconnect now, even between Republican senators and the Republican administration over what happened and the level of culpability pointing towards Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia.

And in that context, the Turks have moved very swiftly now, Dave. They have said that they want to issue arrest warrants for two people very close, indeed, to the crown prince.

The one is the deputy head of intelligence there, Gen. Asiri. And the other one is head of his media department, Saud Qahtani, both of whom were relieved of their positions but have not been charged with any crime, unlike a number of the other alleged conspirators who are under investigation and murder charges inside Saudi Arabia.

The Turks saying that they ought to hand over all of those suspects so they could face the music inside Turkey.

And this all happening, Dave, at a time when Saudi Arabia can ill- afford a toxic reputation. And there's not more toxic, really, for the reputation of Saudi Arabia and the coalition fighting Houthi rebels, all of whom are now gathering now in Stockholm for peace talks.

BRIGGS: All right, a lot more to come here.

Sam Kiley live for us in Abu Dhabi -- thank you.

ROMANS: All right.

They didn't complain when they were in power but now, Republicans in Wisconsin and Michigan are trying to strip power from incoming Democratic leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTERS: Whose house? Our house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:48:54] ROMANS: The former mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg, has a message for Democrats. Now that you've won the House, do something. Bloomberg spent more than $110 million to help Democrats take control of the House in the midterm elections.

He spoke exclusively to CNN Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: Now, this new Congress has to do something. If they just sit back and do the same thing that the people they just ousted did then I'm not going to be happy, and I've told Nancy Pelosi that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: Bloomberg also had harsh words for President Trump, contrasting him with the late Bush 41.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOMBERG: The current president doesn't seem to have any feeling of sacrifice for the good of the country and maybe that's one of the real differences. It's how you deport -- it's not policy, it's how you deport yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: Bloomberg is considering a run for president in 2020. He was in Iowa promoting his new documentary on climate change. He says he won't decide on a 2020 run until early next year.

Pardon me -- not sure what that loud disruption here was in the studio.

ROMANS: It sounds like a light just popped -- all right. BRIGGS: Yes.

ROMANS: Republicans in the swing states of Michigan and Wisconsin under fire for trying to strip away the power of incoming Democratic leaders.

[05:50:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTERS: Whose house? Our house. Whose house? Our house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: In Wisconsin, Republicans are conducting an extraordinary session designed to limit the powers of incoming Democratic Gov. Tony Evers and Attorney General Josh Kaul. They're trying to require legislative approval for decisions traditionally made by the governor and attorney general, including the promise to withdraw the state from a federal lawsuit against Obamacare.

BRIGGS: Republicans defending the power grab even though the issue was never raised when they won statewide offices.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN VOS (R), SPEAKER, WISCONSIN STATE ASSEMBLY: The number one priority for us is to make sure that we restore the balance of powers between the two coequal branches of government.

SEN. SCOTT FITZGERALD (R), WISCONSIN SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I'm concerned. I think that a governor like Evers --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

FITZGERALD: -- is going to bring a liberal agenda to Wisconsin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey -- hey, hey, hey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: Republicans in Michigan also using a lame duck session to rewrite the rules. They could step in to defend a law allowing religious groups to refuse to place children up for adoption with same-sex couples.

Incoming Democratic attorney general Dana Nessel has suggested she might not back that law in court.

ROMANS: All right.

The Treasury Department releasing a proposal for overhauling the U.S. Postal Service and it stopped short of full privatization, the idea the White House floated over the summer. President Trump ordered this report in April after he repeatedly attacked the U.S. Postal Service deal with Amazon. Back in December, the president tweeted the deal was quote, "making Amazon richer and the post office dumber and poorer."

The Treasury-led task force found little appetite for fully privatizing the agency. That would have undermined its current mission to serve rural America.

The report did conclude, though, that the post office should act more like a private business in some ways, like having the authority to charge market-based prices for both mail and package items.

Currently, the agency is limited in how quickly it can raise rates. The public goes -- just outraged if you raise rates too quickly.

BRIGGS: Sure.

ROMANS: So (INAUDIBLE).

BRIGGS: Or cut days of service --

ROMANS: Yes.

BRIGGS: -- either one.

All right. Ahead, a little man with a big heart will host the Oscars in 2019. We'll tell you who.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:56:31] BRIGGS: Drivers in Uber Lyft will soon get a minimum wage hike in New York City. On Tuesday, the city's' Taxi and Limousine Commission voted on a minimum pay formula to protect drivers from being underpaid by these companies.

Under the new policy, drivers will earn a minimum take-home wage of $17.22 per hour. It's a first for the U.S. ride-hail industry and could mean rides in New York will cost more. The move will go into effect in 30 days.

ROMANS: "The New York Times" reports ex-CBS chief Leslie Moonves destroyed evidence and interfered with an investigation into sexual misconduct allegations. A draft report from lawyers hired by CBS says Moonves was evasive and deliberately lied.

The report is said to allege multiple acts of non-consensual sexual misconduct in and outside of the workplace. If that proves true it could cost Moonves a $120 million payout.

Moonves has denied more than a dozen accusations of sexual misconduct.

BRIGGS: Salmonella concerns are expanding an already massive beef recall. JBS Tolleson is recalling more than 5.1 million pounds of raw beef, pushing the total recall to more than 12 million pounds. The recalled beef was produced and packaged between July 26th and September seventh, and distributed nationwide.

The outbreak of salmonella has sickened nearly 250 people in 25 states. For more on the recall go to cnn.com.

ROMANS: All right.

It's a longtime dream come true for comedian Kevin Hart. He's been chosen to host the 2019 Academy Awards. He succeeds Jimmy Kimmel, who hosted the last two Oscar ceremonies.

Hart hosted the BET Awards in 2011 and the 2012 MTV Video Music Awards.

He says in an Instagram post that he was blown away by the opportunity, adding, "Now it's time to rise to the occasion."

The 91st Oscars will air February 24th.

BRIGGS: Princeton's all-male a cappella group has dropped the classic "Little Mermaid" song, "Kiss the Girl" from its act over concerns about consent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCETON A CAPPELLA GROUP: Singing "Kiss the Girl."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIGGS: The Princeton Tigertones cut the song because some students complained not only about the lyrics. It don't take a word, not a single word. Go on and kiss the girl -- sorry.

But the performance, itself, also includes picking a man and a woman from the audience and encouraging them to kiss.

The group's president says they'll come up with a performance that is enjoyable and comfortable for everyone.

It's also about mermaids who talk under the water. I know we're rethinking all of the Disney --

ROMANS: I know.

BRIGGS: -- princess movies, but can't we just enjoy them?

ROMANS: Kissing a girl without consent -- yes, I know.

All right, thanks for joining us. I'm Christine Romans.

BRIGGS: I'm Dave Briggs. "NEW DAY" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Flynn provided information that is allowing Mueller to make a criminal case against someone.

REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: There is no suggestion that Michael Flynn had anything to do with collusion. I think it's good news for President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump is sending the signal -- shut up and I'll pardon you. Mueller is sending the signal -- cooperate and you might get to go home.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: This is conduct that none of us in America would approve of.

JAMES MATTIS, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We do not have a smoking gun.

GRAHAM: There's not a smoking gun, there's a smoking saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, December fifth, 6:00 here in Washington.

And we do begin with breaking news for you. A highly-anticipated court filing by special counsel --