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British Government to Hold Vote of Confidence in Prime Minister Theresa May; Michael Cohen Facing Sentencing for Convictions on Nine Counts Including Lying to Congress. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 12, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: -- diplomatic editor Nic Robertson. He's live at 10 Downing Street in London with all of the breaking details. What now, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Five hours from now, they will begin that secret ballot where Theresa May's conservatives MPs will cast their vote, are they confident in her, are they not confident in her. She needs 158 votes to win. She needs more than that to convince everyone that she is capable, really, of carrying on. But I think, knowing Theresa May, if she gets just 158, then she will continue as prime minister. She's been prime minister now for two and a half years. Her sole job, pretty much, has been delivering the Brexit deal for Britain. She says she's got the best deal possible that delivers on what people wanted, one of those big things was on immigration.

One of the toughest points is the border with Northern Ireland. And she was asked today in that raucous debate in the House of Commons by the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbin, when is Parliament going to get to have the vote that was supposed to happen yesterday on the deal that she got with the EU? This was her answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'll tell members on the other side when we've had a meaningful vote. We had it in the referendum on 2016.

(APPLAUSE)

MAY: And if he wants a meaningful date, I'll give him one -- 29th of March, 2019, when we leave the European Union.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So what she didn't actually do was give a date for that vote. It must happen, the vote, that meaningful vote on the terms of the Brexit deal that Theresa May has been able to secure so far, it must happen before the 21st of January. But she didn't put a precise date on it. But what did, Jeremy Corbin, the leader of the opposition, not do as well that he could do? And that would be call a vote of no confidence in the government. There is a lot of expectation on him in the coming days that if Theresa May's party doesn't bring her down, the opposition might try to bring the government down. This is far from over. John and Alisyn?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Far from over, high drama. Nic Robertson for us outside 10 Downing Street, I have to say, I'm a big fan of U.S. democracy and the way we do things. But if there was one thing that I would take from the U.K., it's not the royals. It's the House of Commons there and that question and answer session the prime minister faced.

CAMEROTA: That was very lively. It was really -- I hope you all watched it. It was great TV. It was captivating, but does it accomplish -- does it get more accomplished, all of the yelling and jeering and everything?

BERMAN: If feels good. It feels good to yell and grunt. There was a lot of that.

CAMEROTA: Agreed. There was a lot of jeering.

In just hours President Trump's long-time personal attorney and fixer will be sentenced in a federal court in New York. Cohen pleaded guilty to eight counts, including a campaign finance violation that for the first time ties a federal crime directly to the president. CNN's Kara Scannell is live outside the courthouse in lower Manhattan with more. What do we expect, Kara?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Alisyn, it was exactly nine months ago that Michael Cohen's office, hotel room, and apartment was raided by the FBI. He went from being the ultimate loyalist to President Trump to now one of potentially the most dangerous witnesses. Just a few hours from now he will be sentenced on the nine criminal charges he has pleaded guilty to, eight from the summer, including campaign finance violations, tax fraud, making false statements to banks, and then the new charge that he pled guilty to just two weeks ago, lying to Congress.

Cohen will appear before the judge. He'll have an opportunity to address him. We're expecting that he will make the case that he is a good person, that he's trying to cooperate and make amends and make things right. But it will ultimately be up to the judge. And Cohen will be the first person in Trump's inner circle to really face serious prison time. Under the sentencing guidelines he faces between 51 and 63 months. That's roughly four to five years. His lawyers are going to be arguing for leniency, for a departure from that. But the U.S. attorney's office here, which has implicated President Trump in the campaign finance violations that Michael Cohen has pleaded guilty to, they are saying that he committed serious crimes driven by greed and that he should not have much departure from this sentence and that he should face some serious jailtime, Alisyn.

BERMAN: Kara Scannell for us outside the courthouse. Needless to say, we're watching this very, very closely. Thanks so much for that.

Joining us now, CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and CNN political analysts Jonathan Martin and Josh Green. And Josh, I want to start with you here, because the sentencing is one more step in this daily path in the Russia investigation, broadly speaking. To an extent it's a foregone conclusion. We largely believe that Michael Cohen will get substantial jailtime. But you still believe that this is important to watch. It sends an important message.

JOSHUA GREEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I do. We have been moving toward this day for months now, and on some level, everybody knows that Cohen is going to jail. But the fact, I think, that someone in the president's inner circle is going to go to jail for crimes, including crimes that he alleges were committed at the direction of the president of the United States I think is going to make this real to a lot of people watching at home, to drive home the story in a way it hasn't been before.

[08:05:15] CAMEROTA: Jonathan, I, too, find this to be a remarkable day. Just the down fall of Michael Cohen, whose original sin, it seems, was his undying loyalty to Donald Trump. And I keep coming back to the reporting that shows that he, himself, can't believe that he is about to go to jail and leave his children and wife for years because of something he says -- well, also the taxi business and his tax evasion, and something that was directed by Donald Trump.

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think Josh makes a really good point that the image of being sent to prison really does bring this home for a lot of casual consumers of the news who haven't been engaged in every twist and turn of this story. And I think it's hard for the president to completely detach himself from Michael Cohen.

Folks know this at home if they follow politics really closely, but Trump didn't have a big circle. He was not a typical CEO who had a board of directors and a kind of a battalion of aides. He kind of ran a family business with a handful of people that he trusted and kibitzed with, and Cohen was central.

I can recall, guys, covering Donald Trump in 2011 coming to a conservative conference, CPAC, to speak when he was doing one of his then quadrennial flirtations with running for president. And the guy who brought him there was Michael Cohen. And the guy who was doing his press afterwards was Cohen. I got the proof of that because he sent me a blistering e-mail that I hadn't taken the Trump speech seriously enough in 2011. So he was not just a lawyer, not just a fixer. He was a lot more than that. He was an aide-de-camp. He was a flak. He played a lot of roles for the president for many years.

BERMAN: I had the same text messages on my phone, Jonathan, saying we're not taking it seriously enough in 2011.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Berman, can I make one more point about Michael Cohen? We have not seen the last of him. I have been talking to members of Congress this week. He is going to be a witness in several different Congressional committees doing investigations of various parts of the president's campaign and administration. So he is going to be, in many respects, a star witness. He has said he's not going to object to testifying. So the story that he told prosecutors about this campaign contribution, as it's now been determined to be with Stormy Daniels, with Karen McDougal, those are going to be told in public on television. So we are not done with Michael Cohen at all. CAMEROTA: In fact Jeffrey, Kara Scannell just broke some news in her

report moments ago where she said that a ninth charge has been added for the sentencing of Michael Cohen, that is the lying to Congress. So there had been eight charges for which he would be sentenced, but now the ninth one has been lumped in. Do you think that that changes the prison time calculation significantly in any way?

TOOBIN: What's peculiar about this situation -- many things are peculiar -- is that the special counsel, who was responsible for bringing the ninth charge, the Mueller office, they think Michael Cohen has done a great job of cooperating. They actually have praise for him. It's the southern district that brought the original case that thinks he has not been candid. So I doubt it will add to his jailtime. But it's certainly not good to be convicted of nine charges in addition to eight.

BERMAN: It is not good.

TOOBIN: More is not better.

BERMAN: One of the few things where more is not better, Jeffrey.

And, Josh, as the president is watching this today, as we know that he will. He is playing close attention to this. He did this interview with Reuters last night where he claims he won't be impeached because he's done nothing wrong, because he's done a good job as president. How do you see this weighing on him or impacting him these days, this week?

GREEN: Well, look, we know any time the Mueller investigation takes another step toward Trump, it rattles him. It unnerves him. I think he can feel the noose tightening. The image, and these images are going to be everywhere on television today -- the image of his chief fixer being sentenced to prison I think has to resonate in a way that at least going by past experience is going to upset and unnerve the president. The first place I would look for a reaction is probably on Twitter. Another thing the president likes to do is change the subject or start a new fight. We may have seen the beginning of this yesterday in that amazing Oval Office meeting with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. But the real answer is we don't know. We have to wait and see how he reacts.

[08:10:04] CAMEROTA: And J. Mart, what about the way Republicans in Congress thus far have been reacting to the revelation in the sentencing memo that for the first time does tie President Trump to these crimes by saying that prosecutors believe that Michael Cohen did these hush money payments at the direction of candidate Donald Trump? And as we have been playing all week thus far, Republicans have given it a big whoop.

MARTIN: Right. I think they are largely inured to every twist and turn of this drama. I think that if there is not an outcry from a large segment of their voters that they're basically just going to buy time, ignore the question, sidestep the question, or minimize the question. That's been the precedent now for going on two years, three, if you include the campaign. And I'm not sure when that will change.

And to me, the only possible change in that is if there is something in the Mueller report that is more explosive that they can't totally ignore. But, look, as we saw yesterday, guys, there is a new operation here. And they can sidestep the questions all they want, but there is now going to be a Democratic majority in the House that's going to hold the president accountable in a way that the House GOP did not.

BERMAN: No. And there will be that new dynamic there to be sure. But I do think the significance is the fact that the Republicans aren't shaken or they haven't been shaken by this is huge, and we can't miss that this week, Josh. And it may be one of the most significant developments this week, that barring something much bigger than this, Josh, Republicans aren't going to budge.

GREEN: No. And we have seen that not just on Mueller, but we have seen it on immigration and the caravan and the government shutdown. You've heard a few meek protests, I would call them, from Republican leaders. Mitch McConnell said yesterday he was hoping for a Christmas miracle and that Trump wouldn't follow through on his threats to proudly shut down the government.

But by and large there really hasn't been any change in Republican behavior that I can detect coming out of the midterm elections. And you heard at the press conference yesterday, the press avail with Schumer and Pelosi, Trump still bragging about holding on to the Senate and expanding Republican margins there.

So I think the reaction from Republicans by and large flows from the Trump. They are mimicking Donald Trump and have decided collectively I think that they are not change their behavior despite having been more or less wiped out, at least in the House and in governors races, on November 6th.

CAMEROTA: Right, but they get cover, I think, Jeffrey, because in the sentencing memo it says that this is what Michael Cohen claims, so they are able to paint him a liar. But as you have pointed out, as many people have pointed out, no doubt prosecutors have more. And if that other corroborating evidence would come forward, who knows if Republicans have to change their tune.

TOOBIN: Not likely. How many times have we said, oh, this is going to change things? He insulted a gold star family. He said terrible things about John McCain. His terrible remarks in Charlottesville. And we all said, oh, this is what's going to change Donald Trump's support. Nothing ever changes it. Now, it's not majority. It is not even close to a majority. But his support has remained rock solid throughout his presidency, throughout his campaign, and that's how he's running his presidency. And --

CAMEROTA: Yes, I know. I just meant with lawmakers. I didn't mean with his base, obviously.

TOOBIN: But the lawmakers respond to the voters, their voters, the Republican voters. And they're not moving as far as I can tell. BERMAN: Gentlemen, thank you all for being with us this day. I

really appreciate it.

So we were talking about the president's raucous Oval Office meeting with Democratic leaders. It was good television, frankly. Was there a winner in this, a winner besides Mike Pence?

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Joining us Anthony Scaramucci, renowned Mike Pence expert. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:28] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A new threat from President Trump that he is willing to shut down the government over getting funding for his border wall.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: The one thing I think we can agree on is we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute, and you want to shut it down. You keep talking about it.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The last time, Chuck, you shut it down.

SCHUMER: No, no, no. Twenty times.

TRUMP: And then you opened it very quickly. And I don't want to do what you did. But, Chuck --

SCHUMER: Twenty times you have called for I would shut down the government if I don't get my wall. None of us have said --

TRUMP: You want to know something? OK, you want to put that in mine.

SCHUMER: You've said it. You've said it.

TRUMP: I'll take it. You know what I'll say? Yes. If we don't get what we want, one way or the other, whether it's through you, through the military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government.

SCHUMER: OK, fair enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now is Anthony Scaramucci, former White House communications director under President Trump.

Thank you so much for being with us.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, John. Great to be here.

BERMAN: So, we all watched that yesterday.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, I saw it.

BERMAN: What did President Trump get out of it?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean, the first thing is it is interesting. There are two New Yorkers that used to really like each other and now unfortunately they're anchored to two political parties. So, I would love to see these guys de-anchor a little bit and go back to being the friends that they were five or eight years ago and see if they could meet in the middle somewhere and get a negotiation done.

So, I'm hopeful of that --

BERMAN: That is the opposite of what we saw yesterday.

SCARAMUCCI: No, I --

BERMAN: They may have entered closer than they left.

SCARAMUCCI: I understand that. So, what ends up happening is the lights and cameras are on and now, you both have different constituencies. And so, you're both leaning on each constituency.

But what's interesting that the president, he said that during the immigration thing. He said it during the wall. He said he's willing to take the blame. Put the blame on me. The buck stops with me.

And, so, you know, you are probably not going to like me saying this, but we've got to figure out ways to tighten up and protect ourselves at the border, primarily because it is very good for working class families and it's very good for getting wages up, and I would rather protect the people that are in the country legitimately and legally and help them with their wages.

One last point, the African-American unemployment number and Hispanic number is at historic lows. It's a strong economy. Plus, what the president has done at the --

BERMAN: Border security isn't necessarily the wall, though, which is the argument that people make. Democrats say they're willing to fund border security and increase funding for border security.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes.

BERMAN: They say no wall. So, that's the issue here. The president said he's willing to shut down the government over the wall.

How does that convince one more person that's not in the president's base?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean, I don't necessarily know if it convinces one more person, but it's a political symbolic thing for the president. [08:20:04] BERMAN: Symbolic, symbolic.

SCARAMUCCI: Let me finish. It's symbolic for the Democrats as well. They are hoping they will beat him on the wall. They'll, quote- unquote, say that they're strong on the border without the wall.

The wall has become this political totem. If the president gets the wall, he's won. If the Democrats don't get the wall, they have won.

But the truth of the matter is, let's get the American people win. So, at the end of the day, they did vote him in. It was one of the cornerstones of his campaign. He's a guy that has said repeatedly at all of his rallies promises made, promises kept. He wants to keep the promise on the wall.

You may disagree with the wall. You can ask me my opinion of the wall. I'll give you my opinion.

BERMAN: Which is?

SCARAMUCCI: My opinion is that he got elected, OK, and that was one of the big cornerstone principles. Barack Obama got elected to create universal health care.

BERMAN: What is your opinion of the wall?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, my opinion of the wall is it is not clear to me we need it everywhere, but I do believe there are certain areas of the borders we need it. I'm good friends with Tommy, Tommy Homan, and I think he would say the same thing as me, that you need it in certain areas of the border.

BERMAN: Was that meeting yesterday --did it do anything to bring the president closer to getting that wall?

SCARAMUCCI: No. I think that there was too much television theatrics.

BERMAN: At his choice. He let the cameras in. He let him stay.

SCARAMUCCI: OK. But, you know, I'm not on trial, right? You're asking prosecutorial questions.

What I'm saying is, is that I'm not in love with that TV dynamic between Senator Schumer's, potential Speaker Pelosi and the president. I'm not in love with that dynamic because, you know, it's going to cause that level of theatrics, that revel of poor body language.

I mean, I think Senator Schumer looked uncomfortable to me because of his body language. The president doesn't look uncomfortable to me ever.

BERMAN: He looked comfortable to you and Nancy Pelosi was lecturing on how the House works? He looked comfortable?

SCARAMUCCI: He looked irritated. BERMAN: That's different --

SCARAMUCCI: But here is the thing, OK, get it behind closed doors. If you can't get it done in front of the television camera, let's get it behind closed doors. But just the way Barack Obama ran on universal health care and, quote/unquote, what is known as Obamacare, and Barack Obama said I want to own Obamacare, let's get the president the wall. That's what he ran on.

BERMAN: All right. Speaking about being comfortable, you care to give me Mike Pence's thought bubble the vice president of the United States, when he was sitting in that room? What was he think something?

SCARAMUCCI: Look, I mean, here's the thing, OK, I think the vice president has done a great job, OK? What do you want him to do? You want him to cut in in front of the president? It's the president's show.

And I think Mike Pence has been a super loyal guy, done a great job. He's pushed the president's agenda. You know, I'd like to see more people in the White House be like Mike Pence in the following way: push the president's agenda.

He's the one that got elected. It's not you. It's not the establishment Republicans. Push the president's agenda and have the president's back.

BERMAN: Do you think he liked being right there?

SCARAMUCCI: No, I think he was uncomfortable. I don't think -- you want to tell you something? I don't think any of them really liked it. It didn't seem like any of them liked it.

So I would say the vice president, I can't read your mind, sir, but you were probably a little uncomfortable. I think the president seemed irritated and Speaker Pelosi, designee, and Chuck Schumer, didn't look too happy either.

BERMAN: Michael Cohen --

SCARAMUCCI: I'm very happy sitting here. I'm sitting here with you and it is almost Christmas. So, I'm very happy.

BERMAN: I spread holiday cheer. It is my job.

Michael Cohen is going to be sentenced today and very likely faces significant jail time. What is your reaction to that? How -- do you feel for Michael Cohen?

SCARAMUCCI: I do. I'm saddened for Michael Cohen. You have to remember something, OK, I was friends with Michael Cohen, and I think of myself as a friend of the president.

I met both of them here in New York. We worked closely together on the Romney campaign together, and I worked with Michael on the fund- raising side of the Trump campaign and also after the president was re-elected, he was part of the finance committee for the Republican Party, and I like Michael. I consider Michael a friend.

So, here's the dilemma, OK? And I think down deep, you know, the president is probably mad at me for saying this, but that's OK, because, you know, I get people mad at me all the time.

I think down deep, I think the president probably is upset with Michael. He's upset with the way Michael probably handled certain things. But I also think, you know, there is a soft spot in the president's heart saying, wow, he knows Michael's wife. He knows Michael's kids.

Even if your friend did something wrong -- hand he did plead guilty to something, so I'm sure he did something wrong, you don't like seeing your friends go to jail.

BERMAN: When you see the 16 people, you know, connected to Russia, connection to the president, met with Russians, when you see convictions and the sentencing one after the other, do you ever look at this and think you got out lucky? That 10 days was enough to be in this administration?

SCARAMUCCI: First of all, I was there for 11. Don't say 10, John. It hurts my feelings.

And secondarily, I like the president. I have always liked the president. And so, I didn't like the way I was fired. I made that clear, so we don't need to talk about it.

[08:25:01] But I stayed loyal to his agenda and I stayed loyal to him as a person and frankly to the administration. But I'm very happy to get my life back because not to talk about personal things, but I was close to getting a divorce and I was able to patch it up with my wife.

Coincidentally, I ran into some of the White House staff at the Trump International Hotel last Friday night. It was very good to see them, but I'm also very happy I got my wife and family back. So, it is one of those things.

But I'm not going to break my loyalty to the president because I got fired. I think that would be stupid.

BERMAN: OK. Anthony Scaramucci, great to have you with us.

SCARAMUCCI: You will come visit the wall when we get the wall built? You and I will go down to the wall.

BERMAN: You just told me you don't think it's necessary, but I appreciate it.

SCARAMUCCI: Parts of it I think is very necessary. Probably not all over the place. I think the president has gotten around to that, that there is an adaptive thing that gets done there. But by and large, he needs it.

BERMAN: We will see. Anthony Scaramucci, thanks very much.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here.

BERMAN: Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hard wrap, Anthony. Hard wrap.

Meanwhile, do Republicans support President Trump's threat to shut down the government over border wall funding? We talk to a Republican senator, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Today, Michael Cohen will learn how many years he will spend in prison for violating campaign finance violations, tax evasion and lying to Congress.