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Cohen to be Sentenced; Threat of Government Shutdown; Calls for New Election in North Carolina; Reality Check on Daniels Payment; Reunited with Daughter after 69 Years. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 12, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:30:09] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Today, Michael Cohen will learn how many years he'll spend in prison for violating campaign finance violations, tax evasion and lying to Congress. Michael Cohen implicated President Trump in some of his crimes. So how are Republicans responding to that news?

Joining us now to talk about this and more, we have Republican Senator John Kennedy. He is a member of the Judiciary Committee.

Good morning, senator.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R), LOUISIANA: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: When you read that in the sentencing memo that Michael Cohen said that he was coordinating with individual one, a.k.a. Donald Trump, and directed by Donald Trump to commit those campaign finance violations, was that game changer for you?

KENNEDY: Well, when I read -- when I read the filings by Mr. Mueller, I was -- I was looking primarily for evidence of illegal Russian collusion. I didn't see a lot of that.

In terms of the allegations about the campaign finance act violation, certainly the Campaign Finance Act is a serious statute and a violation of it is a serious thing. I've been asked if I think Mr. Mueller will prosecute on the basis of that, I don't. I think Mr. Mueller's a smart guy and a good prosecutor and I think he would have to base -- based on what I've seen, a large part of the prosecution on Mr. Cohen's credibility, which is doubtful at best. He would have to prove mens rea and intent and he'd have to somehow get around the John Edwards case. So, I doubt he'll prosecute.

CAMEROTA: Well, I hear you. I mean I understand what you're saying going down whether or not he'll be prosecuted. But since you think that a campaign finance violation is, as you said, a serious thing, what do you think the responsibility of Donald Trump should be?

KENNEDY: Well, somebody first has to file a claim or a charge, if you will, with the FEC, or Mr. Mueller would have to indict him. Most Campaign Finance Act violations are civil. To prove a felony, you've got to prove mens rea, or intent, and that's difficult to do. Now, the President has already said that for him it was a private

business transaction. You could choose to believe that or not but that --

CAMEROTA: Do you believe that?

KENNEDY: I have no way of assessing that, no.

CAMEROTA: I guess my question, senator, isn't so much about the procedural issues of whether or not this can be successfully tried, it's, do you think that hush money payments to a porn star and a Playboy playmate, who alleged that they had affairs with Donald Trump while he was married, do you think that that would have been relevant information for voters to have before they went to the polls?

KENNEDY: You know, Alisyn, I don't know. I mean if you're asking me, did the American people understand that President Trump was say a flamboyant player in politics, knew that he was, and that he had an unconventional style, I'd say no. I don't think folks in Washington give the American people enough credit. Folks in Washington think that they're the only smart ones in American and everybody has to look to them to figure it out. The American people figured all this out early.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KENNEDY: They knew -- they knew what they were getting with President Trump and they -- and they --

CAMEROTA: Yes, I guess, senator, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I guess that I -- what I'm asking is that is character still important to Republicans?

KENNEDY: Well, of course.

CAMEROTA: Because it -- and --

KENNEDY: Well, I think -- I hope it's important to Democrats too. It's very important.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, if the Republicans, for instance, when Orrin Hatch says, I don't care, but he cared a lot about Bill Clinton's philandering, that's what's the head scratcher.

KENNEDY: Well, I care. I mean that's -- Orrin can speak for himself. I care. I'll bet you, in his heart of hearts, President Trump regrets ever associating himself with Mr. Cohen. Maybe Mr. Cohen was a great lawyer and produced great results. I don't know. But he looks to me like, I don't know the man, I've watched him operate, it looks to me like he's a gangster.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, again, it's not the association with Mr. Cohen that I'm asking about, it's the one with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal and if that still matters.

KENNEDY: Well, yes, but I trust the American people to make up their own minds about it. You and I have talked about this before. I think part of the problem,

and both sides are guilty in Washington, D.C., is that people in Washington, D.C., think they're smarter and more virtuous than the rest of America. And I would prefer to - I trust the American people to make up their own minds.

[08:35:01] Now, some of them clearly don't like President Trump. Others do. I mean, you know, half of America says every day, give the guy a break, and the other half says, how did this happen? And -- but I trust the American people to make up their own mind. And we'll get another shot at it in two years.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Senator, I want to ask you about the moment in the Oval Office with Senator Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the president about the border wall funding.

So let me just play for you a moment of what happened yesterday.

KENNEDY: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.: We don't get what we want, one way or the other, whether it's through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government, absolutely.

SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: OK, fair enough. We disagree. We disagree.

TRUMP: And I am proud. And I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck.

I will take the mantel. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What's your reaction to what was said and how that played out?

KENNEDY: Well, my point of view, I think, is a little heterodox. It's - I didn't think it was a spectacle. I appreciated the transparency. I've been in meetings like that before. That meeting was pretty tame compared to some of the lively discussions we have. That would be the first point.

The second point is, look, I happen to think that walls work. I've seen them work in America, Israel, Bulgaria, Malaysia, but I don't think that's the issue here. I think the issue here is -- well, let me put it another way, I think we're going to have a shutdown.

CAMEROTA: You do?

KENNEDY: And I think - I think -- I do. And I think we're going to have shut down for two reasons. Number one, President Trump does not look to me like he was bluffing or is bluffing. And, number two, I don't think Speaker Pelosi is going to agree to anything because she's worried about her speakership.

CAMEROTA: And are you comfortable, if there's a shut down next Friday because - over this border wall funding?

KENNEDY: No, absolutely not. I mean I think the American people look to us up here to try to make things work.

CAMEROTA: And who gets blamed if there's a shutdown? Do you think that it's the president or Congress?

KENNEDY: I don't know. It's -- as far as I'm concerned, if it's shut down, it's a pox on all of our houses. I don't know politically who's going to win or lose this. I do know that to many people are pre- occupied with that - with the politics of it. We out to try to figure a way out of this.

I'm just saying, based on what I've seen, and I could be wrong, and I hope I am because a government shutdown would not serve the American people well. I don't think President Trump is bluffing. And I don't think Speaker Pelosi is going to give an inch because she wants to be speaker. And if I've learned anything up here, and I hate to say it, but most people in Washington care about their jobs first.

CAMEROTA: That is breaking news.

Senator John Kennedy, thank you very much for being with us on NEW DAY.

KENNEDY: Thanks, Alisyn. You bet.

CAMEROTA: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, growing calls for a new election in North Carolina as more allegations of fraud emerge. We're going to have a live report, next.

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[08:41:58] CAMEROTA: The Republican Party in North Carolina is calling for a new election for the ninth congressional district after new allegations of election fraud there.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is live in Raleigh, North Carolina, with more.

What's the latest, Ryan?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, for some time Democrats have said that a new election should take place in the ninth district. But yesterday it was Republicans who have moved as close as they ever have to that point. Dallas Woodhouse, their executive director, citing a new report that reveals that early vote totals were leaked ahead of Election Day, which would be in violation of North Carolina law. Now, that comes after a series of allegations against a political

operative in North Carolina, in Bladen County, who worked for the Republican candidate Mark Harris, who was running a vast absentee ballot collecting scheme, which is also in violation of North Carolina law.

And we had a new revelation about that yesterday. A man signing an affidavit, he is a Republican, his name is Kenneth Simmons (ph), where he said he personally saw McCray Dallas (ph), the man at the center of this conspiracy, with a stack of ballots in his hand prior to Election Day. That man, Kenneth Simmons, writing, I asked him why he had not turned them in. He stated that you don't do that until the last day because the opposition would know how many votes they had to make up. My concern was that these ballots were not going to be turned in. And that is something the state board of elections is investigating.

Republicans and Democrats may say they want a new election. It is the state board that has to make that final call. A public hearing is expected in the coming days. And that's when they'll decide if a new election will take place.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Ryan.

BERMAN: Yes, such an important story. And not over yet. Not even close.

So, less than a year ago the story broke about Michael Cohen paying off Stormy Daniels to buy her silence ahead of the 2016 election about her alleged affair with Donald Trump. In just hours, Cohen will be sentenced in a federal court. So how did we get here?

CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon has our hopefully PG "Reality Check."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, what you're about to witness is the life span of a lie. Specifically the long trek from hot denials about Stormy Daniels to this, the payments were a simple, private transaction and no big deal.

It all begins January 2018. "The Wall Street Journal" breaking the story that Michael Cohen had arranged to pay porn star Stormy Daniels $130,000 to shut up about Trump just weeks before the election. Cohen then called "The Journal's" reporting outlandish allegations against my client and a false narrative. The White House said that the question had been asked and answered.

One month later, Cohen admits that he, in fact, paid Daniels, that it was his money. He wasn't reimbursed at all. And he won't say whether Trump knew or not. The White House again tries to act like this is a non-story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I've had conversations with the president about this. There was no knowledge of any payments from the president and he's denied all of these allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Next, Daniels takes her story directly to "60 Minutes" and our own Anderson Cooper. Raj Shah repeats that Trump has denied Daniel's claims.

And then in early April, aboard Air Force One, Trump told reporters this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mr. President, did you know about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:45:01] AVLON: No.

So, three weeks later, Cohen's offices were raided and team Trump's story changes dramatically.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Michael would represent me like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal. He represented me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Remember, this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, up to that point, didn't exist in Trump land. Then in May, Trump's new attorney, Rudy Giuliani, shocked Sean Hannity by suddenly changing the official version of events.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: It's not campaign money. No campaign finance violation. So --

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: They funneled it through the law firm.

GIULIANI: Funneled it through a law firm and the president repaid it.

HANNITY: Oh, I didn't know that he did.

GIULIANI: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Oh, he did.

The next morning Trump tweets an uncharacteristic legalese, quote, Mr. Cohen, an attorney, received a monthly retainer. Money from the campaign played no role in this transaction. Then this August, Cohen pled guilty and told prosecutors everything.

He paid Stormy Daniels. He was reimbursed. Plus a healthy bonus. He did it to help Trump's campaign. He knew it was wrong and, most important, Donald Trump directed it.

Now, faced with the facts, Team Trump had been downplaying it now as nothing but a sideshow. Trump himself now calling the Stormy payment a, quote, simple, private transaction, which is an instant classic of understatement. Not a campaign expenditure and no big deal.

One thing is very clear, everything we heard out of the president and his associates about the Stormy Daniels payment was a lie. Not falsehoods, not misunderstandings, but straight up lies to the American people.

And plenty of folks might ask, who would do such a thing? Well, if you ask Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, someone not qualified to be president. Quote, committing crimes of moral turpitude goes to the heart of qualification for public office.

Unfortunately, that's Orrin Hatch in 1999 talking about Bill Clinton. And here today is what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R): The Democrats will do anything to hurt this president.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But this is not the Democrats. It's the Southern District of New York.

HATCH: I don't care. All I can say is he's doing a good job as president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: That kind of situational ethics is indeed a form of moral turpitude.

And that's your "Reality Check."

CAMEROTA: John, it's remarkable to retrace the steps. I'd forgotten about some of those, like the "Fox and Friends" moment. So, thank you so much.

BERMAN: No ambiguity in the president's words.

So one mother's Christmas wish comes true thanks to a DNA test. Just a stunning story almost 70 years in the making. That's next.

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[08:51:26] BERMAN: So this next story will blow your mind. With the help of a DNA test, a mother and daughter just met for the first time after nearly 70 years.

Look at this. On the left here is 88-year-old Genevieve Purinton. On the right is her daughter Connie.

And here's the thing, Genevieve was told that Connie had died at birth.

Joining us now are Connie Moultroup and her daughter Bonnie Chase. Genevieve couldn't be with us this morning. She's older and this conversation wouldn't work.

But, Connie, explain how this happened. Your mother, she had -- your biological mother had you when she was just 18. She was told you died at birth. You were put up for adoption. Explain.

CONNIE MOULTROUP, REUNITED WITH MOM AFTER 69 YEARS: Well, that's exactly what happened. I was put up for adoption. I was adopted by a family in southern California, and that's where I grew up.

And, I don't know, I just -- I just always -- I remembered being five years old and hoping that my biological mother would come through and rescue me.

BERMAN: And Genevieve never knew. Never knew you were alive at all.

MOULTROUP: Nope. Nope. And, actually, when I -- my cousin contacted her in a card and gave her my phone number. She thought it was a scam.

BERMAN: So, Bonnie, that's where you come in here because this was all made possible because you gave her what turned out to be the most consequential Christmas gift in the history of mankind, which is a DNA test.

MOULTROUP: Absolutely.

BERMAN: The ancestry.com DNA test, which led to what?

BONNIE CHASE, CONNIE'S DAUGHTER: It led to my mother's lifelong dream. And it also led to a ton of family in other places as well. After she was adopted, my mom had a really, really rough childhood. And so when she said she started fantasizing about finding her birth mother at about five years old, there were real reasons for why she was having those kinds of thoughts. And then for her to, you know, all these years later actually find her has been such an incredible miracle.

And, John, how am I ever going to beat that Christmas present?

BERMAN: No, I mean, it's astounding.

CHASE: I don't know if I ever can.

MOULTROUP: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean you gave her a mother she never knew she had, and you gave Genevieve, who you didn't even know, a daughter she literally thought was dead.

And, Connie, you met Genevieve for the first time just last Monday, for the first time. MOULTROUP: I know.

BERMAN: What was that like?

MOULTROUP: I know. That was -- OK, you're going to make me cry, aren't you?

CHASE: Yes, she's probably going to cry.

MOULTROUP: Oh, dear. So that was the most astounding event. My husband and I walked into the -- into the residential community where she lives, and I knew she used a walker and there was only one woman there with a walker. So I just -- as soon as she turned around, I was looking in the mirror. And I knew it was her. And ran over to her and just hugged her and started to cry.

BERMAN: And what did she say to you?

MOULTROUP: You're not dead!

CHASE: Yes.

BERMAN: Oh, imagine. I can't imagine getting a phone call being told that a daughter -- and we're not talking -- I mean 69 years, 69 years later, you thought your daughter was dead, getting that phone call that you're alive. And you plan to --

MOULTROUP: Yes.

[08:55:03] BERMAN: You spent four days with her and now she's going to be part of your life.

MOULTROUP: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We hit it off instantaneously. It was like -- and I don't even know how to describe it. It's -- it was just an instant connection. It was -- it was really astounding.

BERMAN: And, Bonnie, you know, what message do you want to send to the people watching about this? What did you learn from this in this new bond between your mother and grandmother?

CHASE: So I've never met my biological father, and so all our lives it's just been me and my mom until my kids were born. We haven't had any other blood family. And we've discovered -- she's got two half- sisters that are still alive on her biological father's side, and we're actually going down to meet them in a couple of weeks.

And what we've discovered through this whole process is that blood does seem to actually be thicker than water.

MOULTROUP: Yes.

CHASE: There are so many coincidental similarities that are -- that can't possibly be coincidental. My kids are incredibly musical, especially my daughter, and it turns out that runs in the family. And there's the sense -- the weird sense of humor that we have is -- like all of it is just -- it is all so connected. And the other message to me that's really important is that this is

really, to me, it's a story about the strength and resiliency of women who can come through really difficult times and then -- and, you know, separate and then come back together and still be a family, which is just really -- it's really special, really amazing.

BERMAN: Well, Bonnie, Connie, we are so happy for you that you now have this new relationship with a mother and a grandmother you didn't know you had. Have a wonderful holiday. You've really made our morning so much better today.

CHASE: Thank you, John.

MOULTROUP: Thank you.

BERMAN: Thanks so much.

MOULTROUP: Thank you.

CHASE: Have a great day.

BERMAN: You, too.

All right, there are wild developments happening in the United Kingdom this morning and new developments, Michael Cohen due to be sentenced very shortly. We're back after a quick break.

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