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Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn's Sentencing Delayed by Judge in Court Session; Michael Flynn Admits in Court FBI Did Not Entrap Him. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 19, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who knew it could happen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, December 19th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn is off, Erica Hill joins me this morning. Great to have you here.

ERICA HILL: Nice to be with you.

BERMAN: It's getting so close to Christmas I can smell the eggnog. Maybe that's --

HILL: I don't know what you're talking about. There is nothing in here but tea.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: All right, this morning, if you are looking for former national security Michael Flynn, you are likely to find him within 50 miles of Washington. That's because a judge ordered him to surrender his passport and stay close to D.C. and keep cooperating with the federal government prosecutors, investigators until March. That is when he will be sentenced for lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia. This is not at all what he expected, really what anyone expected, when Flynn entered the federal court to be sentenced initially yesterday. The judge not only postponed the sentencing, he also lashed out at Flynn, expressing disgust and disdain, and he debunked made up claims by the White House that Flynn was somehow entrapped.

HILL: All of this as a partial government shutdown looms midnight, Friday, as you're look at the clock there. Senate Republicans we know are now drafting a short-term spending bill to keep the government funded through February 8th. If that passes, of course, it does kick the can down the road. That means the fight over the funding for the president's border wall will fall into the new year and, of course, the new Congress in 2019.

All of this as overnight something that is rare, to put it mildly, these days in Washington, bipartisanship in Congress, the criminal justice reform bill designed to reduce the population of the nation's federal prisons passing easily in the Senate. It is expected to clear the House. The president has said he will sign it. It could be on his desk by the end of the week.

Let's bring in CNN political analyst David Gregory, former U.S. attorney and former assistant director of the FBI's Office of Congressional Affairs Greg Brower, and CNN political commentator Errol Louis. I think, John, you really set it up perfectly. This is not when we were watching everything unfold with Michael Flynn yesterday, especially because there were no cameras in the courtroom, this is not the way anybody expected it to go yesterday, Errol. And it was remarkable the updates we were getting, and then the final update at the end of the day in terms of where we stand and how clearly the judge felt about Michael Flynn, what had been said by him and his attorneys, and where they were now in his courtroom.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, this was obviously a scenario that the White House and perhaps Flynn's team expected to play out, which was that he got this very beneficial description of his cooperation by the Justice Department and then he was going to get his six months, as low of a sentence as he could get, and then come outside and say, well, it's minor, I was entrapped, to sort of distort the story for public relations purposes, and the judge just wasn't having any of it. He wanted him to allocute fully and extensively and in a detailed manner say exactly what he did.

I think also, this was a warning I think to the White House and the political staff in particular is that this judge reacted the way a lot of Americans will when they understand fully what happened, that this person was lying to FBI agents in the West Wing of the White House, somebody who could not possibly claim that he didn't know it was important to tell the truth when the FBI comes knocking. It's, I think, going to be something that, although the spin effort is understandable from the White House's point of view, it simply hasn't worked. They're going to have to try something else.

BERMAN: And to be clear, the judge, Judge Sullivan knows what was redacted, knows what we don't know, what Michael Flynn has been cooperating and what he's owning up to in terms of his plea deal with the Mueller team.

Greg, what does this mean, if the judge was sending the message that Errol was just talking about there, what does this mean going forward with the Mueller investigation and all these other cases currently under the spotlight?

GREG BROWER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I think this can be seen most likely as a one-off. Judge Sullivan clearly was unhappy with two things yesterday. One was Flynn's underlying conduct. The judge at one point accusing Flynn of having sold out his country. So that clearly had him bothered.

The other thing I think was Flynn's last minute filing in which he attempted in a sort of bizarre way to blame his troubles on the FBI and gratuitously drop the names of McCabe and Strzok totally unnecessarily in the pleadings. That also didn't sit well with the judge and with the special counsel's office.

And so I think this is a one-off. It should not adversely affect the special counsel's office at getting witnesses to cooperate and working out deals with them going forward.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's significant that we have now seen two instances of the federal judiciary really lambasting the White House for their statements.

[08:05:02] And here you had the judge specifically debunking the idea that has been advanced by the president, none other than the president and his spokeswoman, to say that Flynn was ambushed by the FBI. Ridiculous on its face, and made all the more ridiculous by the fact that almost like a child he had to go into court and say yes, I know it was illegal to do that. I was aware of that the whole time.

And let's remember Chief Justice Roberts who just several weeks ago pushed back hard in a very rare move against the president going after federal judges by saying there is not Trump judges or Obama judges, that we're all independent judges.

So I think this is a significant moment, on top of the fact that it bears repeating how outrageous it is that you had Michael Flynn, despite his decorated background, operating as a foreign agent as a national security adviser, and begs the question in the larger scheme what was he up to? What about these contacts with Turkey, of course, but also being paid by Russia to give a speech and make an appearance for RT Television? What was he up to? That's part of the overall puzzle the special counsel's investigation that we don't know the result of.

BERMAN: Just one point, Judge Sullivan did end up having to apologize for saying Michael Flynn was working for a foreign agent while he was the president's national security adviser. He certainly was as he was advising in the transitioning candidate Trump, he was absolutely doing that for Turkey. But the judge made the distinction between the White House work.

GREGORY: I should as well. Thanks.

HILL: This is a remarkable distinction, though, too, and as you have just pointed out, David, we have all of this adding up, we have all of these facts adding up. And we have Michael Flynn in court who was forced to say, no, this is not entrapment. No, none of these things happened, he and his attorney. And yet after all of this happens and all of this plays out in court, you still have Sarah Sanders and the White House just not giving up on this idea of what they believe to be true. And just for folks who haven't heard it, I think you do need to hear it. Just take a listen.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flynn said that he knew that it was illegal to lie to the FBI and he was ready to accept responsibility. This all before agreeing to a delay in sentencing. Given that, are you in a position now or would you like to revisit your comments earlier today that the FBI ambushed Flynn?

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No. We still firmly believe -- we don't have any reason to want to walk that back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: We don't want to walk it back. We firmly believe it. We don't care that the words came out of his mouth that said, no, this was not it at all. Errol, spin, as you point out, you expect this to be spun by the White House, obviously. That's not spin. This is once again from this White House a blatant disregard for the facts.

LOUIS: That's right. There is such a thing as FBI agents catching you on your way out the gym at 6:00 in the morning and you're sort of a little bit dazed and you start talking with them and you talk yourself into trouble. It happens all the time. This is the FBI coming to the White House while the national security adviser is sitting there.

HILL: And they said he seemed relaxed. Flynn seemed relaxed in talking to them. He seemed comfortable, remember.

LOUIS: Yes, of course he would. And listen, the White House, Sarah Sanders in this very unfortunate position has made professional choices that she's going to have to live with, to simply say whatever it is her audience of one requires her to say. But in the end I think the media is going to have to put out there like, look, here's what actually happened and here is what the White House is saying, and let people decide for themselves why there's such a big gap between the two.

BERMAN: What's interesting, and Greg, I know you say this is a one- off, but this does have a bit of an impact, and it may be symbolic on a bigger level to the point that David was making here, is that the facts are not beginning to co constrain the spin from the White House. If you overlay what Sarah Sanders and the president have been saying in public and you were to put it inside the courtroom yesterday, Judge Sullivan basically said no, that if you said that in here to me today you would be going to jail. And if you think about what that means going forward, look at the Trump Foundation, for instance, today. All of a sudden, now, they have to give up the foundation. All the proceeds are being given away. They're being told, the Trumps, that they can't sit on cherry boards in New York state. It's because of the facts that are part of this case.

BROWER: Yes. No doubt, for all of those reasons, this is a very significant development. And finally, finally for those of us who spent a big part of our careers in DOJ and in courtrooms, we finally saw a judge finally take to task those who have tried to distort what has happened here.

Someone said earlier that the White House's response was understandable. I would have to disagree with that. I do not understand, and I can tell you that there are a lot of people at DOJ and the FBI right now who do not understand the White House's response yesterday. I have to say, I wonder about the lawyers at both the White House and DOJ, the political appointees, and what they're thinking as they see the White House criticize their word that everyone from the judge to the government to the defendant himself have agreed what was not inappropriate. What are they thinking today as they hear these criticisms?

[08:10:16] GREGORY: But I think to their credit in the Justice Department from former attorney general Sessions to Rod Rosenstein, they have now bowed to the president's pressure, and they have allowed this process to move forward understandably and professionally. That doesn't mean that there were some mistakes that were made in the investigation and the president may have a reason to be frustrated with aspects of it. But look, he fired Flynn for lying to his V.P. presumably because Pence said you can't have this guy lying to him. It makes me look horrible. You've got to get right of him. And he did. And yet, they're going to say he was ambushed by the FBI?

It obviously makes no sense. And I think what's unfortunate about the decision that Sarah Sanders has made -- she's not there under duress. She could leave at any time. If she's going to do these things at the behest of President Trump, that is on her. And I agree with Joe Lockhart who served in that position as press secretary for Bill Clinton. The rest of the world has to know that when the White House spokesperson says something, it's true. And I have covered a lot of these people who are under a lot of pressure who don't deliberately say something that isn't true. It's just wrong.

BROWER: If I could just reiterate that, and I agree with David. We have to remember that every decision that is being made as part of the Mueller investigation is being carried out and/or approved by Trump's own appointees, whether it's Rod Rosenstein at DOJ approving and supervising the Mueller investigation, or it's Chris Wray at the FBI whose agents are actually doing the work for the Mueller, these are Trump appointees making these decisions. And so to see the White House and the president criticize them in this way really is bizarre.

BERMAN: All right, Greg, David, Errol, thank you very much. Great to have you here with us this week.

So the clock is ticking, but there is reason for optimism as Capitol Hill tries to prevent a shutdown. Can a deal get down by the end of the week? We're going to be joined by a Republican House member to get the inside scoop on the negotiations next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:58] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Senate Republicans are drafting a short term deal to prevent a government shut down after the White House seemed to budge on demands for border wall funding.

Joining us now is a Republican from Illinois and a member of the House Foreign Affairs and Energy and Commerce Committees, Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Yes, you bet. BERMAN: The breaking news: Kellyanne Conway, advisor to the president, moments ago said of the idea of this continuing resolution, keeping the government open until February, she said the president would take a look at that certainly.

That doesn't seem to be build the wall or shut down anymore. Does it look to you as if the White House is caving?

KINZINGER: No, I don't think it's caving. I think it's understanding that shutdowns are stupid. If we shut down now, you shut down over the holidays -- you know, I have been here eight years, and every year, we played this Christmas game where it's like, we stay over Christmas when you don't get work done, and then we punt into January. It is nothing new.

But that will allow them, the new House to come in, which is really the dynamic at play right now and it will allow the president, Pelosi and Schumer and the majority leader to figure out where to go from here for the long term.

BERMAN: This is the worst Christmas game, by the way. I know a lot of board games that the family can play.

KINZINGER: It's an evil Christmas game.

BERMAN: You do acknowledge, though, that it means pushing this down the road. Let me read you something else the president said or Sara Sanders said about this yesterday.

The president asked every one of his cabinet secretaries to look for funding that can be used to protect our borders and give the president to ability to fulfill his constitutional obligation to protect the American people by having a secure border.

She's basically saying they will look for funding for the wall elsewhere in the government. First off, I'm not sure how appropriations in government funding work. Actually, I know it is not how it works.

Secondly, that's not Mexico. That's not Mexico paying for the wall, is it?

KINZINGER: No. I mean, you know, the president will make the point about the new NAFTA. I'm not sure how that all works out in terms of that. But, no, I don't think there was any reality that Mexico was going to write a check.

But I am for border security. I think it's important thing to do. I think it needs to be appropriated by Congress to do.

The president ran on it. He won on it. So I think it will be right to give it to him.

Here's where I go from there. Let's secure the border but fix the broader immigration system. You know, we sit back and the left doesn't want to give us the wall. We don't want to give them their thing because we won't get the wall and nothing gets done.

It's gone on for half a decade or longer for the bigger issue. Let's fix it all for once. Maybe it's too simplistic for me to say it. Let's fix it all because more issues coming along in the future.

BERMAN: It's not too simplistic, but there have been deals in place that Congress could get through when they had the opportunity. It is hard to imagine when the next time would be different.

If I can, I want to ask about -- so you are saying you don't think there will be a shut down at this point?

KINZINGER: No, I don't think so.

BERMAN: All right.

KINZINGER: Especially a shutdown over Christmas would be kind of dumb.

BERMAN: All right. On Michael Flynn yesterday inside that courtroom, the judge said he had discussed and disdain for the fact that Michael Flynn lied to the FBI, lied inside the White House to the FBI and also had criticism for his work as a foreign agent during the campaign and during the transition.

Let me ask you as an Air Force major. Do you have disgust and disdain that this retired general would lie to the FBI?

KINZINGER: Yes, absolutely. There is some questions in terms of the process and should they have gone through the counsel of the executive branch. That's all well and good to have that discussion.

But, Mike Flynn, I mean, it's clear -- did he serve his country? Yeah. But he did the fact that he was lobbying for Turkey, among other things. There is a picture of him sitting by Vladimir Putin at a fundraiser dinner. That doesn't take away the fact that you still have to continue to represent the best interest of your country, unless you are going to go be a lobbyist for a foreign government, which is legal in our country, but you have to register and be clear who you are lobbying on behalf of.

So, I respect General Flynn's service in the past, but that doesn't exonerate him from when he turned against this country or did something not in the interest of the U.S. government.

[08:20:03] BERMAN: And just to be clear, both Michael Flynn and his lawyer, and it's clear the judge inside that courtroom, felt that Michael Flynn was not trapped. Michael Flynn was asked outright were you trapped by the FBI. His answer was no.

I want to ask you a question about an issue that's very important to you, and I think should be very important to all Americans. And in the case of (INAUDIBLE) an American citizen seemed to die in a Syrian prison, likely executed.

KINZINGER: Yes. BERMAN: This is something that just came to light. What do you think

the United States has to do about it?

KINZINGER: Well, (INAUDIBLE) was missing for a few years and we found out about a month ago she was tortured to death by Bashar al-Assad. An American citizen, the went to help the people of Syria, tortured to death. As terrible as the Khashoggi situation is, the administration needs to be very clear we know this happened. Calling out Syria for it, finding out when other Americans are in custody. This is a message not just for the evil Syrian government but also a government that would take American hostages.

If we know of any other Americans in the custody of Syria and we have an opportunity to spring them loose, we ought to do it. If we don't, we need to be clear about the fact that as Americans we never accept a country like Syria illegally imprisoning our people and torturing them.

BERMAN: Have you had any response for the administration yet or your concerns about it?

KINZINGER: I actually have one coming this week. I have a meeting coming this week about this. I am pleased with their response. I don't blame anybody for it. I don't blame the past administration, or this administration for it. I just think we need answers for what happened and we need to fix that going forward.

BERMAN: You blame Syria for this and the regime still in place as we sit here and heading into 2019.

KINZINGER: Half a million dead Syrians, 50,000 chemical weapons, torturing Americans to death, that's a big problem.

BERMAN: All right. You are heading into another determine in Congress. I couldn't help but notice that after the midterms, "The New York Times" did an article about returning members to Congress saying there are some Republicans in t minority that may be discouraged about being in the minority. Others are sick of answering questions about president Trump. And it puts you in that category and suggested that maybe you wouldn't want to seek re-election because of all of this.

Do you want to respond?

KINZINGER: Yes, I intend to seek reelection, but you can't commit to seeking re-election before you are sworn in to your next term. I think that's being dishonest to your district.

So, we'll always look and say, OK, is it appropriate for me to run again? I fully intend to. Yes, there can be discouraging times in the minority, of course. I've never served in it.

Yes, and every tweet, every comment isn't all fun to have to respond to. So, that part is accurate. The not running again part is not accurate.

BERMAN: Do you believe the Republican is the party and specifically the White House has learned any lesson from the midterm elections?

KINZINGER: I think that remains to be seen. I think we need an honest accounting to figure out where we had losses, and areas where we did well. You know, districts where we were strong, and figure out where we have losses. The suburbs in Illinois, for instance, why that happened.

If we just pretend that didn't happen, it is going to be a lost opportunity. I think we need to look back and say whether you win big and lose big, you have to say why was the result what it was and how can we learn from it.

BERMAN: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Republican of Illinois, have a merry Christmas, and I hope you can play many more fun games than the evil shutdown game.

KINZINGER: I agree. Take care.

BERMAN: Now available in stores. Thanks.

Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The House impeached President Bill Clinton 20 years ago today. What was it like inside the White House on that day? We're going to speak with those who were there. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:45] BERMAN: Twenty years ago today, Bill Clinton became the second president in U.S. history to be impeached, leaving people around the world speechless.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president impeached by the House of Representatives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On this vote, the ayes are 228, the nays are 206. Article One is adapted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the wake of an unprecedented vote against an elected president, Mr. Clinton vows to continue doing the work of the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Clinton has been impeached. The House of Representatives today approved two of the four articles of impeachment, accusing him of perjury and obstruction of justice. The issue goes to the United States Senate for a possible trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Not that it matters, but I was sitting right next to Charlie Gibson, right next to the right of him when he said that 20 years ago.

"The New York Times" says Clinton impeached, he faces Senate trial, second in history, vows to do knob until term's last hour. So what was it like inside the White House? Joining us now, President

Clinton's press secretary at the time, Joe Lockhart, and a reporter on the front lines, Ron Fournier, who covered Clinton for the "Associated Press" from his time in Arkansas all the way from 2001. I learned more watching Ron report over the years than anyone else.

So, thank you both for being here.

So, Joe, to you. First of all, a little history here, your first day on the job as White House press secretary was when Henry Hide opened impeachment hearings for Bill Clinton in October. So, that's a heck of a way to start a job.

JOE LOCKHART. FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It is a heck of a way. I mean, I had been in the White House, so I was well versed on the Starr investigation and all that, but it is a big jump to stand up at the podium on that particular day. There was no easing into the job, as you might say.

BERMAN: And, Ron, your history is you covered Clinton for a long time. But in terms of the path of impeachment, you were in the Roosevelt Room when Bill Clinton faithfully said I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky. When you were there at that moment, you had a clarion thought which was --

RON FOURNIER, COVERED PRESIDENT CLINTON FOR THE AP, 1988-2001: Two thoughts. He's lying and his presidency is over. I covered him long enough. I just knew he wasn't telling the truth.

And I thought -- I mean, I was shaken. I walked back to our booth in the back of the filing center there literally shaken.