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White House Braces for Turmoil; House Dems Launch Investigations; Trump Claims Credit for Gas Prices; Trump Fires Back at Romney; Reid Calls Trump Amoral. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 2, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:32:24] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, 2019 could be another year of legal turmoil for President Trump and his inner circle. Almost every aspect of the president's political and business life are currently under investigation, including his campaign, his transition, his inauguration and his presidency. The president tweeted his message for the new year, quote, just calm down and enjoy the ride.

Joining us now is CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, who always enjoys the ride.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: And is calm.

CAMEROTA: And is extremely calm, actually.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He's so calm this morning.

TOOBIN: Happy New Year.

CAMEROTA: OK, Happy New Year to you.

TOOBIN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What's happening? We've lost the -- track of what Robert Mueller is doing. What are you keeping an eye on right now for this month?

TOOBIN: Well, I think certainly one issue that needs to be resolved is, there's obviously been a very intensive grand jury investigation of Roger Stone, people around Roger Stone and the issue of the relationship, if any, between WikiLeaks and the Trump campaign. Whether there are going to be indictments of Stone or anyone else is something that will certainly be resolved, I think, in the first quarter of 2019.

BERMAN: I know we don't know for sure is always the answer with Robert Mueller.

TOOBIN: But we're on cable news, so we speculate.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And John also lives, I must tell you, in a constant state of anticipation of a report being released at any moment.

BERMAN: I -- it's not the report being released.

TOOBIN: It's the indictment.

BERMAN: I was convinced in December that it was going to be a busy month. And I think we can all agree it was.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

TOOBIN: It was. It was a very busy month.

BERMAN: He's our chief legal analyst and he's agreeing with me that it was a very busy month.

TOOBIN: It was.

CAMEROTA: I think I heard that.

TOOBIN: We'll go out on a limb and say that.

BERMAN: I don't -- I don't have a feeling for what January will be like because there is this report that's hanging out there that will come at some point.

TOOBIN: It will come at some point. But, remember, I mean, the logistics of this get very complicated. Mueller is obliged to file a report to his supervisor in the Justice Department, who is, at the moment, Mr. Whitaker, the acting attorney general, not Rod Rosenstein anymore. But it may well be William Barr who may be confirmed as attorney general relatively soon.

That person will then have the decision of what to do with the report. Whether to turn it over to Congress. Whether to make it public. And the White House may object to disclosure of some or all of that report.

CAMEROTA: And probably would.

TOOBIN: I would guess, based on everything we've seen from how this White House has dealt with Mueller, that they will object to disclosure on the grounds that certain material is covered by executive privilege and that Mueller has no right to release it publically.

[08:35:05] BERMAN: You bring up a good point. A lot of this drama will be quite public, too. You bring up the William Barr, the confirmation hearing. That will be televised. He will be asked 100 different ways about what he will allow in the Mueller investigation, what he wants to see. You know, what he would not (ph) do.

TOOBIN: And -- and whether and under what circumstances he would fire Mueller --

BERMAN: Right.

TOOBIN: Which -- which remains -- which remains an issue. And -- and that will certainly be a big part of his confirmation hearings.

CAMEROTA: Who is Sam Patten? Hold on. We -- I'm going to answer my question --

TOOBIN: Answer your question.

CAMEROTA: With a full screen. He's a lobbyist tied to Paul Manafort. He's cooperating with the special counsel. He has admitted to illegally obtaining Trump inauguration tickets for Ukrainian oligarchs and a Russian. He failed to register as a foreign lobbyist for Ukrainian opposition.

Here is my real question to you, the significance of this guy and why we're watching him closely?

TOOBIN: Well, he was about to be sentenced at the end of last year, and the special counsel's office filed a document that said, don't sentence him yet, he's cooperating. That had not previously been known, that he was an important cooperator.

What does he know? Who was he dealing with? Again, we don't know for sure. But the fact that Patten is -- perhaps a much more major figure than we had previously realized is significant. And again, it is part of the nexus, the relationship, between the people affiliated with Trump, Paul Manafort, the inaugural committee, the Trump campaign, and people affiliated with Russia, in this case the Russian allied government of Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: It is interesting to me. This is, in some ways, is like the final half season of "Game of Thrones" when all the secrets will be revealed eventually. This should happen over the next six months. And part of it will be the Senate confirmation hearing of Barr will be discussed openly. Part of it's going to be Democrats taking control of the House, and there will be hearings all of a sudden very soon that these committees will hold.

TOOBIN: Enormously important. I mean Intelligence Committee, Judiciary Committee, Oversight Committee, Ways and Means Committee, which can get tax returns, including that of the president. That is going to change this game completely.

Just give you one example. You know who is definitely going to be testifying in public at some point in 2019, Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen, the president's former personal lawyer and fixer, who will be able to be asked anything. It's not like it's going to be a courtroom setting. Congressional committees don't have rules of evidence. So Democrats will bring Michael Cohen in and talk to him about absolutely everything he knows. And that conversation will be in front of the whole country. That's just one part.

I just wrote a piece in "The New Yorker" about Adam Schiff, who will be chairman of the Intelligence Committee. He is going to be obtaining financial records from Deutsche Bank, where the president had been doing a lot of the Trump Organization business, a company that had been also involved in Russian money laundering. That just gives you a small taste of what that side of the investigations will be like. CAMEROTA: Michael Cohen's will be really fascinating. You know, and Michael Cohen's guilty plea, as you know, that executive one was named as someone who facilitated the hush money payments. Who is executive one?

TOOBIN: Well, we --

CAMEROTA: He'll be asked. And Michael Cohen will answer --

TOOBIN: I think we all know executive one was -- is and was Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Well, not individual one. I mean executive -- isn't that a different person? Isn't -- couldn't executive --

TOOBIN: Oh, individual one.

CAMEROTA: Individual one.

TOOBIN: Oh -- oh.

CAMEROTA: Couldn't executive one be Don Junior, be Jared Kushner, be anybody? I mean, you know, anybody.

TOOBIN: Right. Right. Right you are. I -- you -- as usual you are on top of this.

CAMEROTA: As usual I teach you about the law. Thank you, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: Individual one is a different person from executive one.

CAMEROTA: You know --

TOOBIN: You are anchor one.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

TOOBIN: John, anchor like two and a half.

CAMEROTA: Ouch.

BERMAN: If that. If that. But thank you for the promotion.

TOOBIN: Yes.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much for being with us.

TOOBIN: Happy New Year.

BERMAN: Again, I think the bottom line is here, the stuff behind closed doors is stopping soon. Pretty soon we're going to see a lot of this.

CAMEROTA: If you say so.

TOOBIN: That's what we wait on. BERMAN: I do say so. I do say so.

CAMEROTA: I know you say so. I know that.

BERMAN: President Trump used to claim credit for the stock market. Now, after Wall Street's worst year in a decade, the president is touting low gas prices. Can he take credit for that? We'll discuss, next.

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[08:43:06] BERMAN: New year, lower gas prices. The national average for gas is now the lowest since 2017, and the president is taking credit for it.

Our chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with more.

Does he deserve credit?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's risky because it could turn on him here, but he didn't learn his lessons from the stock market so he's now talking about gas.

Good news on gas prices, at least to start the new year, folks. According to AAA, the national average, $2.25 a gallon. The lowest since 2017. And look at this, residents in these 13 states now enjoy gas prices below $2 a gallon.

So I guess it's no surprise that the president has shifted from stocks to gas. The president tweeted about gas prices twice on New Year's Day. Gas prices are low and expected to go down this year. This would be good.

And this, do you think it's just luck that gas prices are so low and falling? Low gas prices are like another tax cut.

Well, gas is falling because U.S. crude oil prices have cratered, you guys, and in the year, down nearly 25 percent. In part on worries about slowing global growth and lots and lots of supply. But that could change. OPEC and its allies agreed earlier in December to remove 1.2 million barrels a day from world oil supply. If they stick to it, it could drive crude oil prices back up and gas prices with it.

Now, the relief for drivers comes amid a lot of concern among investors. In 2018, the S&P 500 fell 6.2 percent. Wow, the Dow is 3,500 points below its October high and down 5.6 percent last year. The Nasdaq fell 4 percent. Guys, the worst year for stocks since 2008.

And on this first new trading day of 2019, John, I've been hearing you saying what a great year this has been so far. Early indications reflect more selling, so you can take that.

BERMAN: So you're fact checking me --

ROMANS: Alisyn. I'm fact checking -- BERMAN: My 2019 be a great year. You're saying, no, it's not. All right, I appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: It's not all about the stock market.

BERMAN: Thanks, Romans.

ROMANS: OK, you're right.

CAMEROTA: All right, thank you very much.

[08:44:52] So, Mitt Romney and President Trump are feuding this morning. And in just a few hours, the president and congressional leaders will meet in the Situation Room. We'll get "The Bottom Line" on all of it for you, next.

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BERMAN: Republican Senator-elect Mitt Romney went after the president in a blisters op-ed overnight. He said the president has not risen to the mantle of the office.

Just moments ago, President Trump fired back saying, in part, would much prefer that Mitt focus on border security and so many other things where he can be helpful. I won big and he didn't.

Let's get "The Bottom Line" with CNN political director David Chalian.

Happy New Year to you.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Happy New Year.

BERMAN: And what a 2019 it is already.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BERMAN: We have this very public, new renewed feud between the 2012 nominee and the 2016 nominee playing out before our very eyes. What do you see there, David?

CHALIAN: Yes, I think one of the big questions about Mitt Romney, John, sort of at this moment in his career, as he's about to, tomorrow, become a United States senator after being the head of the party as you mentioned in 2012, was he going to be sort of using this role to be part of a Republican resistance to Donald Trump in some way or was he going to sort of put his head down and just move along here?

This op-ed seems to suggest he is willing to take the president on, specifically on this issue of character. So perhaps he will play a little bit more of a role like the late John McCain or a Jeff Flake or a Bob Corker. But, of course, even though three guys, for the most part, voted with the president's policies. And Romney makes clear in the op-ed that he supports a lot of the president's policies. But he is going to call him out on these character issues.

[08:50:05] I think what you are getting here, and now I think the question that hangs over him is, are -- is Mitt Romney holding out an option here in a potential 2020 challenge to Donald Trump if he continues to have a downward spiral the way he did as Romney cites in December?

You know, one of the things in the op-ed, guys, that Romney says is, he cites Nikki Haley as a really positive thing the president did in his first term appointing her to the U.N. Well, Nikki Haley's already endorsed Donald Trump's 2020 re-election effort. Will Mitt Romney do the same?

CAMEROTA: You know, I first heard that 2020 speculation about Mitt Romney, the first place I heard it and I like slapped my forehead because it was such a searingly great insight, was an hour and a half ago from John Berman. And he now wants credit for planting that seed in the national consciousness. And you deserve it.

BERMAN: I don't want credit for it. You were just scoffing at me. You -- when David says it, you're like, oh, of course, that's brilliant.

CAMEROTA: Kind of like, wow.

BERMAN: When I say it, you're like, oh, come on, not again.

CAMEROTA: Pretty much.

OK, so, David, do you think that there's something different about Mitt Romney, his name recognition, his statue, that he'll be more effective than Bob Corker and Jeff Flake were?

CHALIAN: Well, certainly I think he could potentially be more effective than those two guys because of exactly what you cite. But, again, my question is, does this get backed up in some way? I mean Romney makes clear, Alisyn, that he's not going to comment on every tweet, he's not going to comment on everything that the president says, but he will take it upon himself to hold him accountable when it comes to this issue of character. I'm curious to see, how does that play out in practical terms? But, yes, there is the potential for someone of his stature to perhaps lead a segment of his party on Capitol Hill in a different direction than they've been going.

BERMAN: We'll see how it plays out starting at 4:00 p.m. today Eastern Time when Mitt Romney appears with Jake Tapper on "THE LEAD" for his first interview since this op-ed. And I'll be curious to see what he says publically.

In the meantime, David, I think we're seeing something fascinating play out before our eyes today as we are now on January 2nd, which is season three of the Trump show as produced by President Trump in seclusion in the White House over the last few days. We just learned he's going to hold a cabinet meeting at noon today. I bet you cameras are allowed inside. I bet you he's going to wants us to see what he has to say there. I imagine it's been planned.

We also learned that he's having congressional leaders over to the White House for a meeting in the Situation Room to deal perhaps in a way to end this border -- this border controversy and the shutdown. This is interesting today. He is making this very public. It seems

like a bit of a show.

CHALIAN: Yes, we haven't seen him in some six days. He clearly wants to, now that the holiday season is behind us and the shutdown is still ongoing, to control that narrative in some way and get out ahead of it. You -- because we all remember he said he was going to own the shutdown. And indeed Nancy Pelosi has made clear her first act as speaker, which she's likely to become tomorrow, is to pass funding bills that the Senate Republicans already agreed to, again, putting the sort of ball back in the president's court here.

You -- I do wonder how much theater is going on today, John. I mean bringing down the congressional leaders to get a briefing on homeland security, this isn't an issue they're unfamiliar with. I am sure these congressional leaders are well aware. But the president somehow wants to put on display this notion that he's going to give them information that can convince them that his $5 billion request for the wall shall get through. Democrats are just not budging on that.

CAMEROTA: But why not? I mean now that the president is calling it a fence, a wall thing, in his -- one of his most recent tweets he called it a wall thing, slats, why can't they agree? They had, as you know, David, they have agreed to much more than $5 billion in the past for border security. Why don't they just all agree that they're going to call it whatever they want to call it and shore up that thing on the border for $5 billion?

CHALIAN: Yes, I mean, it certainly seems that that is where the compromise lives, right, is to do more broader border security than just the president has wished for, $5 billion for a wall. He, as you noted, and his administration are changing their language. The Democrats are not adverse to broader border security. So perhaps what you're describing, Alisyn, is where the compromise lives.

Of course I'd also think the compromise lives in the number. It will be somewhere between perhaps that $1.3 billion and -- that the Democrats had offered, and the $5 billion that the president's requesting.

BERMAN: All right, David, also in "The New York Times" magazine today, a really interesting interview. Mark Leibovich, who only does interesting interviews and pieces, spoke to Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader, former Democratic leader in the Senate. Harry Reid is very ill. This piece makes clear that he has months, if not weeks, left to live, suffering -- battling cancer. Harry Reid's a fighter, a boxer, so I wouldn't -- I wouldn't take anyone's word for it that it's just weeks or months at this point. But Harry Reid talks quite a bit about President Trump.

Let's throw up on the screen some of the things that Harry Reid said. Trump is an interesting person. He is not immoral but is amoral. Amoral is when you shoot someone in the head, it doesn't make a difference. No conscious.

[08:55:06] Look, we knew Harry Reid was no fan of President Trump's. These are pretty strong words, though.

CHALIAN: They are strong words. And, you're right, John, it's not surprising that Harry Reid would criticize Donald Trump and it's not surprising, if you have followed Harry Reid's career, that he does so with pretty spectacular language. I mean he's got a bit of a silver tongue for this stuff and has used it over the years.

But that doesn't mean that we should get used to this. I do think what the extraordinary nature of these comments for somebody who served as the leader of the United States Senate and had been there for a very long time, worked with presidents of both parties, should come out and say these words as part of his last public act I think reinforces just that we are living in such different, extraordinary times and that we should not get used to them as anything close to normal.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, he clearly feels untethered because of his situation to speak whatever is on his mind. In our waning seconds, he says, I think he is, without question, the worst president we've ever had. We've had some bad ones and that's not even a close second to him. He'll lie. He'll cheat. You can't reason with him.

BERMAN: David Chalian, thank you so much for ushering in this new year with us.

CHALIAN: Happy New Year, guys.

BERMAN: Hope to see you much more in 2019, which is already the best year ever.

CAMEROTA: It is fantastic.

BERMAN: We have some new developments in the feud between Mitt Romney and the president of the United States.

Also, we're learning new information about what the president will do today with this meeting with congressional leaders. Stick around.

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