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Theresa May Faces No-Confidence Vote After Brexit Defeat; Effects of Shutdown More Negative on Economy Than First Expected; Barr Says Public May Not Get to See Mueller Report. Aired 7-7:30ET

Aired January 16, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't want this deal. What deal will work for them?

[07:00:06] ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

This morning, two of the world's most important democracies are experiencing political chaos. Here in the U.S., the longest shutdown in American history goes into day 26. And White House economists now believe the shutdown will be twice as bad for the economy as originally projected. As a result, the White House is ordering tens of thousands of federal workers back to work without pay.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: So a government shutdown here and government turmoil there. In the United Kingdom, they are staring at unprecedented uncertainty.

The prime minister, Theresa May, is fighting for her political life a day after suffering the worst parliamentary defeat in decades over her Brexit deal. We have live pictures right now of Parliament. We are waiting to hear from the British prime minister ahead of a no- confidence vote. This will be one those question sessions where she will face withering questions and criticisms from members on both sides there.

Joining us now to understand what we will see and what just happened, CNN chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, there are really two big questions here: what just happened and what will happen? The first one is a heck of a lot easier to answer than the second. So just put this in perspective. How big of a political defeat was this for Theresa May?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It was very, very big for her personally, and it was very, very big for a bill and a deal on the most consequential issue to face Britain in decades and decades. And as you've already said, it was the biggest government defeat in nearly 100 years.

But here's the incredible thing. In any other country or any other democracy, if you lost such a massive and consequential vote, you would either be run out of town or you would resign.

But in this case, she is not saying she's going to resign. She will not step down. She says she's going to continue. And it is believed that she might and is most likely to win this vote of no confidence. Why?

Because her own party and a group of Northern Irish MPs, who give her a majority in Parliament, don't want to see the opposition Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn, win an election. So if that holds, she's likely to win.

But what will happen next --

BERMAN: Yes.

AMANPOUR: -- is the most important question. We have no idea what's going to happen over Brexit. And that is a big, big deal right now.

BERMAN: Well, when you say no idea what will happen over Brexit, let's listen in. In fact, the British prime minister, Theresa May, beginning to speak right now.

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The whole House will join me in condemning the appalling attack in Nairobi and in sending my thoughts and prayers to all those who have lost loved ones. Our high commissioner has confirmed one British fatality, and we're providing consular assistance to British nationals affected by the attack.

We stand in solidarity with the government and people of Kenya and will continue to offer our support to meet the challenge, the security and stability that is posed by terrorism in the region.

Mr. Speaker, this morning I have meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

JOHN BERCOW, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS: Charlie Elphicke.

CHARLIE ELPHICKE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I join with the prime minister in her strong condemnation of terror?

And you will know, Mr. Speaker, and the prime minister will know that I first sought election to this House because I believed in more jobs, lower taxes, a stronger economy, more investment in the public service on which we all rely.

And does she agree that, since 2010, Conservative governments have delivered time and again for the British people. And the biggest threat to that has sat on the opposition front bench with a leader whose policies would mean less jobs, higher taxes, a weaker economy, and less investment in our public services?

MAY: My -- my honorable friend is absolutely right. What have we seen under the Conservatives in government? We've seen 3.4 million more jobs. That's more people earning an income, earning a wage, able to provide for their families. We've seen more children in good and outstanding schools. More money

into our national health service.

What would put that in danger? A government led by the right honorable gentlemen. More borrowing, more taxes, more spending, fewer jobs.

BERCOW: Jeremy Corbyn.

JEREMY CORBYN, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT/LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

May I start by connecting the record? Last night, I suggested this was the largest government defeat since the 1920s. I would not wish to be accused of misleading the House. Because I've since been informed that it is, in fact, the largest ever defeat for a government in the history of our democracy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Resign.

[07:05:04] CORBYN: So, Mr. Speaker, shortly after the prime minister made her point of order last night, her spokesperson suggested that government had ruled out any form of customs union with the European Union as part of her reaching-out exercise. Can the prime minister confirm that's the case?

MAY: I say to the right honorable gentleman that the exercise that I indicated last night is, as I said, about listening to the views of the House, about wanting to understand the views of Parliamentarians so that we can identify what could command the support of this House and deliver on the referendum.

And what the government wants to do is, first of all, to ensure that we deliver on the result of the referendum. That's leaving the European Union. And we want to do it in a way that ensures we respect the votes of those who voted to leave in that referendum.

That means ending free movement. It means getting a fairer deal for farmers and fishermen. It means opening up new opportunities to trade with the rest of the world, and it means keep going ties with our neighbors in Europe.

BERCOW: Jeremy Corbyn.

CORBYN: Mrs. Speaker, my question was about the customs union. The prime minister seems to be in denial about that, just as much as she's in denial about the decision made by the House last night.

I understand the business secretary told business leaders on a conference call last night, we can't have no deal for all the reasons you've set out. Can the prime minister now reassure the House, businesses and the country and confirm that is, indeed, the government's position, that we can't have no deal?

MAY: I think the point that the business secretary is making and that he has made previously is that, if you don't want to have no deal, you have to ensure that you have a deal.

Now, I will give this -- I will give this to -- I will -- I will say this to the right honorable gentleman. There are actually two ways of avoiding no deal. The first is to agree a deal. And the second would be to revoke Article 50.

Now that would mean staying in the European Union, failing to respect the result of the referendum, and that is -- and that is something that this government will not do.

BERCOW: Jeremy Corbyn.

CORBYN: The prime minister has --

BERMAN: You've been watching the British Parliament right now. British Prime Minister Theresa May facing a vote of no confidence in a little bit. What we just saw there, support from Conservatives, which Christiane Amanpour was noting she likely will not be voted out today. Her government will not fall.

But the bigger question: what happens with Brexit? And the two polar sides are no deal -- no deal to exit the European Union -- or perhaps another referendum. But we don't know which way it's going to go, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: We don't. As you heard, she kept saying there, "My deal or the highway." Basically, this is the best deal. And I've just spoken to the vice chairman of the European Commission, and he says, "We are not reopening this negotiation. So don't look at us from London and hope that we're going to save you in this regard." He said it's up to the British people to decide what they want.

So what a no-deal means, it's a default option. If there is no actual deal voted on, Britain will crash out with a cliff edge, as they call it, just fall off the cliff with nothing in place. I mean, there are some things in place to keep planes flying and the like. However, in all the big issues, there will no deal.

And so we -- it really is uncharted territory. We don't know. And the Bank of England and other economists have said that will significantly hurt the economy.

So I guess the best way to put it is you can see what's happening in the United States over the wall and the shutdown and the political game of chicken there. Well, here it's over a different kind of wall, as somebody said earlier today. It's the English Channel, the wall that separates, the watery wall, Europe from Great Britain. And there's a political game of chicken happening here, as well.

And this is what's got to be unlocked if there's going to be a sensible future that's more rational than just crashing out with no clear plan for the future.

BERMAN: One of the things I've been wondering: who is watching this, this uncertainty in the United Kingdom, and I do like the comparison between what's happening in the United States, as well? But who's watching this and smiling? Who exactly is this good for right now? And I think the answer is Vladimir Putin.

AMANPOUR: Well, perhaps outside you're right. He's -- and anything that can destroy the institutions of democracy, absolutely.

But inside, it's members of her own party, the hardliners, who already took a gamble and took their own leadership vote of no confidence and lost; and they're still acting as if they won. They're running around saying, "We're not going to do this. We're not going to do that. We're going to crash out without no -- a deal, and we're just going to be fine."

And that, you can see, is who she is still trying to appease. She doesn't get that she won that vote. She's still trying to appease her very hardline vote.

[07:10:02] And she keeps talking about democratic rights, but only of the small majority that voted for Brexit. And I think that's what's beginning to rattle the country.

BERMAN: Very interesting to see a good day for people who like drama, a bad day for people who want answers.

Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it -- Alisyn.

AMANPOUR: Thank you, John.

CAMEROTA: John, back here at home, no solution yet for the government shutdown. The White House now conceding it is having damage, more than expected, in fact, on the economy. We explore that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAMEROTA: The White House says the partial government shutdown is causing greater damage to the economy than originally estimated. So will these new bad numbers break the impasse?

Joining us now are Jeffrey Toobin. He is CNN's chief legal analyst. Kirsten Powers, she's a "USA Today" columnist. And Scott Jennings. He's a very special assistant to President George W. Bush.

Great to see all of you.

Kirsten, this is the classic catch-22? I mean, it's just the classic catch-22. You know, Democrats say, "We're not going to negotiate until you open government."

Donald Trump says, "I'm not going to open government until you give me money for the wall." So I don't know who's going to blink?

[07:15:04] KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, yes, I think the one thing that should be avoided is the idea that this is sort of a both sides thing, which I do see some people saying. And I'm sure Scott's probably going to say, as well.

But the thing we have to remember is that the president made a campaign promise, and the campaign promise was that he would build this wall and that Mexico would pay for it. And now the government has been shut down under -- I guess, Republicans are saying that the Democrats won't negotiate. But the fact is there's really no negotiating to be done, because the president is basically saying, "Give me the wall or the government stays closed." That's not really a negotiation.

So when you're president and you make a campaign promise, you, if you want it to be fulfilled, you need to negotiate for that. And this is a nonstarter for Democrats. So it would be a little bit like, if a Democrat -- a Democratic president shut down the government, because it said to Republicans, "I want to ban all assault weapons. Either agree with me or I'll shut down the government."

Most people would recognize that that's kind of a nonstarter. That's not really a negotiation for Republicans. And so that is what Donald Trump has done.

And if the Democrats give in on this, then in the future, every time he wants something, he's going to shut down the government. So I think that they have to -- you know, if you're looking at it from their perspective, they're going to have to hold strong; and they have the polls on their side.

BERMAN: What's new this morning is that the White House team of economists now, their own economists are saying this shutdown is doing twice the damage that they projected. Half a point on GDP already.

What's new this morning is the Coast Guard commandant is sending out a letter to all the people in the Coast Guard saying, "Today you will not be receiving your regularly-scheduled mid-month paycheck. To the best of my knowledge this marks the first time in our nation's history that service members in a U.S. armed force have not been paid during a lapse in government appropriations."

More and more people not being paid, Scott. More and more damage to the economy. How much longer can these politicians let this go on?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they have to send it at some point, and I think the more real people who find real daily impact, the more likely it is the shutdown will come to an end.

I saw some suggestions that this would all come to an end in about 15 minutes, say, if the TSA agents shut down all the airports in America by not showing up for work. Daily impact, I think, would hasten the end of this.

I do disagree with Kirsten. It does take a presidential signature and a congressional vote to fund the government. The president has a position. The Democrats have a position. It would behoove both sides to get in the room.

I do think the president has moved to some degree on some of the things he wants. Pelosi, by the way, has said she will not negotiate over the wall now or after they open the government. So her position is no negotiation, period. I think the White House, frankly, is stunned that they won't negotiate over this. I continue to believe that a game-changing idea is needed to change

the dynamics here. If you want to get a legislative fix, you have to give the Democrats something they want. They say they want a fix for the DREAMers. The president has to bless this deal. If he would just say or tweet, "I would sign a DACA-for-the-wall deal, I think the Senate Republicans would put it on the floor immediately." Until that dynamic changes, though, or until daily impact really starts to affect millions and millions of people, we appear to be in a stalemate.

BERMAN: Just to be clear, he's refused that deal a year ago, and he refused it recently, as well.

CAMEROTA: So Jeffrey, I mean, with the damage to the U.S. economy, that's something that gets President Trump's attention. Is that the game changer today?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so because, remember, who -- who started this shutdown? What started the shutdown was Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh saying we have to shut down the government or -- or, you know, we're going to abandon the president.

And the president sort of overnight vetoed a deal that had been agreed to by Vice President Pence and the entire Republican -- all the Republicans in the Senate. And he said, "We're not doing a deal."

And, you know, I don't think Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham have a, you know, long-term perspective on, you know, what's good for the country. They're all about what's good for their viewers and their constituency; and that's who the president has geared his entire presidency towards. You know, fulfilling the FOX -- you know, fulfilling the FOX News base.

So, you know, I wish I could come to you and say, "I think I see a way out of this," but I just really don't.

BERMAN: Meanwhile, again, people aren't getting paid, and the economy suffers. We're not going to solve it right here. It's going to have to be the politicians in Washington who do it, so let's see what they do.

TOOBIN: But it's our responsibility, Berman. We have to solve it right here.

CAMEROTA: We tried. We tried last week. We tried. We came up with a solution between all of us, and somehow it didn't take.

BERMAN: Look, when Toobin shows up on time, that's a victory --

CAMEROTA: That's helpful.

BERMAN: -- in and of itself. In and of itself. We don't ask any more than that.

[06:20:00] Let's shift gears to William Barr here, if we can. Because yesterday at this hearing, this man who has been attorney general already answered all these questions and, to an extent, I think, reassured some Democratic concerns, Kirsten, that he's not going to file Robert Mueller. He's going to let the Mueller investigation continue until its end.

Is that enough for Democrats?

POWERS: Well, I don't -- I don't know, I guess, is the short answer. But it also doesn't really matter, because it's -- unless he -- the president loses his Republicans, he's going to get confirmed. So that's -- that's not an issue.

But I do think that he obviously did a very good performance. He's a very polished person. He's a very experienced person, but there is this disconnect between the things that he has said previously and the things he's saying there. So I would say it's an excellent performance. I don't know if it's reflective of what he really believes.

It's not so much about whether he's going to fire Mueller, I think. It's just that -- I don't find -- I just don't find his explanations for past things that he's done, like writing a 19-page memo which he's now sort of passing off as like, "Oh, this was just me, like, you know, like dorm room kind of B.S.-ing stuff." And it's like, it's a 19-page lawyer memo sent to the president's lawyers. So I think it has -- holds a little more weight than that, and it's not totally consistent with the things he was saying.

He also was quoted in 2017 in "The New York Times" saying there was more evidence for investigating the Iranian One deal than so-called collusion or that -- the "so-called collusion" was actually in a text that's now been released. Uranium One is a right-wing conspiracy theory.

It's -- so to put that in the same category as what we now have seen in terms of coming out in this investigation, I think is concerning.

CAMEROTA: And then on the flip side, Scott, he said nice things about Robert Mueller, about their nice relationship, about how much he respects Robert Mueller, about how they will always be friends before this report, after this report.

And it just made me wonder, if the president was watching his confirmation hearing, he may be reconsidering, actually, his support of Bill Barr, because Bill Barr said it's not a witch hunt. And, I don't know, what did you think about how he acquitted himself?

JENNINGS: I thought he answered all the questions just as you would want someone for attorney general to answer them. He said all the right things about Mueller. He said all the right things about the investigation.

The one area where I think he's going to have to face political and public reality is whether or not they're going to release, ultimately, a Mueller report to the public.

I understand there may be some top-secret information or some illegal stuff that has to be redacted. But if this government does not issue a full accounting of the last two years and all the millions of dollars we've spent trying to get to the bottom of this Russia issue, people are going to go crazy out there. Republicans and Democrats.

And whether you believe Trump has been unfairly persecuted or whether you believe he ought to be flog-marched out of the White House and thrown in a jail cell today, you deserve to see the full report, and you have to be prepared to accept everything that's in it, whether it confirms all your biases or not.

So the idea that we would restrict information from the American people after all this time and money and energy spent, to me, that's just not possible and will -- the public won't accept it.

BERMAN: Let's play what he said on this. It's S-50 here. This is how William Barr explains how he will serve as a kind of a filter for the Mueller report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARR: Well, under the current rules, that report is supposed to be confidential. The attorney general, as I understand the rules, would report to Congress about the conclusion of the investigation. And I believe there may be discretion there about what the attorney general can put in that report.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Berman: So, Jeffrey, what we will see, what won't we see beyond JUST what William Barr thinks we shouldn't show?

TOOBIN: Look, you know, I was impressed by Barr yesterday. I mean, this was obviously a very serious, intelligent, experienced person who, you know, reflected a sense of integrity that we have not seen from a lot of Bush appointees. And I think the issue of firing Mueller is just simply off the table. That's not going to happen.

But as for the report, I found Barr's answer mysterious. I found that last answer mysterious.

I don't read the regulation the way he was. He didn't seem all that familiar with it, but the idea that there is sort of a separate report coming from the attorney general about the Mueller report, which seemed to be what he was saying, is -- and I think Scott is right, is a nonstarter.

The idea that this -- he will somehow sanitize and summarize Mueller's report and people will find that acceptable is just something that I think is -- you just can't happen.

Now, how that evolves once he turns in -- once he takes over is a different question. Also, you know, we don't know what kind of report Mueller is going to file. He has a lot of discretion, as well. So I remain somewhat mystified by what the status is of -- of any report, but I don't think Mueller is going anywhere. I think that's clear.

[07:25:26] CAMEROTA: All right. Kirsten, Scott, Jeffrey, thank you very much for all of your takes.

Now to this story. She was kidnapped and held captive, and now she wants to share her story to help Jayme Closs. You'll remember the survivor of the House of Horrors in Cleveland. She's going to join us with how she has attempted to heal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:29:42] CAMEROTA: We're learning more shocking details about the kidnapping and escape of 13-year-old Jayme Closs. This morning she is safe with extended family. Police say the suspect confessed to killing her parents and holding her captive for nearly three months.

Joining us now is Lily Rose Lee, formerly known as Michelle Knight. She was one of three women imprisoned in a house of horrors in Cleveland for more than a decade. Lily is the author of the new book, "Life After Darkness."