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Dems Defy Trump, Step Up Investigations; Scandals Engulf Virginia's Top Three Democratic Officials. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 7, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: The American people have a right to know that their president is acting on their behalf.

[05:59:31] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's called presidential harassment, and it's unfortunate. He's just a political hack.

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We can't allow the administration to stonewall us. We came in and we mean business.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're having a moment of reckoning. This is doing to be really painful to both parties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democratic Party has to be able to speak with moral clarity on all these issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is not whether these people can't move on from their past. The question is whether or not they should be in a position of public trust.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, February 7, 6 a.m. here in New York.

Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow, star of stage and screen, joins me now.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: Host of a big CNN town hall next week with Howard Schultz.

HARLOW: No pressure.

BERMAN: That's a big deal.

HARLOW: Tuesday night. Thank you. It's going to be interesting. Look, he hasn't declared a run for president, but he's got everyone up in arms about it. We're going to ask him the questions, and mainly, the audience is going to ask those questions.

BERMAN: He's the one thinking about running, just to be clear, not you. Yet.

HARLOW: That is correct.

BERMAN: New this morning, the president has a red line, and Democrats are not just crushing it, they are jumping on it, stomping on it and dancing on it. That special kind of dance that involves subpoena power.

House Democrats just announced they're launching a brand-new investigation into President Trump's finances and links to Russia. According to the House Intelligence chairman Adam Schiff, they're looking into whether any foreign actor has financial leverage over the president, his family, his business, or his associates.

Way back in July of 2017, the president acknowledged to "The New York Times" that looking at his money would be crossing a red line. So, yes, it's happening, and yes, the president's not happy about it, calling it presidential harassment.

HARLOW: That's how he sees it. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has made it very clear that Democrats will not be intimidated by the president's, quote, "all-out threat" to drop investigations.

This as the battle between the president and the Democrats comes to a head. In just hours, House Democrats will hold hearings into the president's tax returns. Tax returns. And take the administration's policy on of separating families at the border with Mexico.

Also, sources are telling us this morning that acting attorney general Matthew Whitaker right now is undergoing significant preparation ahead of his scheduled testimony. That is tomorrow morning.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, Jennifer Rogers, former federal prosecutor for the Southern District of New York; Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor, as well; and John Avlon, a CNN senior political analyst.

And John, I do want to start with the politics here, because let me read down what this investigation entails, as stated by the House Intelligence Committee. "The scope and scale of Russian intervention in 2016, the extent of any links and/or coordination between Russians and Trump associates, whether foreign actors have sought to hold leverage over Trump; and whether anyone has sought to obstruct any relevant investigation."

It seems to me this is quite broad, intentionally broad, and would I be wrong to think it is so broad, because it wants to send a message to the president?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is a message. This is a two-by-four congressional accountability to President Trump, the likes of which he has never faced before. And unlike the Mueller probe, he doesn't have any even possible claim

that he can constrain it, because it's under his auspices. This is a check and balance. This is from Congress. Democrats now in there.

And the fact they're going at the finances is one of the real differentiators. There's been talk there may be an investigation, but this is saying, "There is no red line, Mr. President. We're looking to see if you may be compromised by foreign actors via the money trail." Follow the money, that's what they're doing. It's a big deal.

HARLOW: A two by four.

AVLON: Two by four.

HARLOW: Laura Coates, broad, as Berman puts it and he's right, in legal cases, there's an issue of overly broad, right? But you can't be overly broad here if it's Congress, and the Democrats are in power in the House and they have the power to check the president, right?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's true. And what they've essentially done is taken all the SDNY filings and what's going on there and probably the New York state attorney general's office, as well, combined it with what they know about the Mueller collusion probe, including what he has already farmed out to Virginia and other places. And they've said, that's a great starting point.

And they recognize that one of the reasons that Mueller's probe has been attacked is because it has been the size of its mandate. It's always being claimed it's outside of its scope. So they've dealt with this issue and said, "We'll roll it all into one, and we'll do one thing."

And of course, people have been waiting for a very long time. The Mueller probe has been the parallel investigation, except the congressional probe has been stalled waiting in deference to the Mueller probe.

Now that we know there's indications either that it's wrapping up or that it's been forming out and putting things on autopilot, Congress is stepping up as Democrats at this point in the lead and saying, "We're going to combine them, and we're going to do what the citizens would like us to do, our constituents, as well as what we are not finding out in the Mueller probe. We'll take it on ourselves."

Jennifer, you think there is a risk, though, and the Democrats need to stay focused here. That list that I read before, I'm not sure that's terribly focused.

JENNIFER ROGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, it's huge. I really do think that they need to keep their eye on the ball here. One, because there are just so many things, and you can't go deep into it. So they're going to have to pick and choose.

But secondly, I really do hope that they leave to the law enforcement professionals those things that are currently under criminal investigation. So SDNY, EDNY, the other U.S. attorney's office can handle those criminal probes.

Congress should do, I think, what they're good at: oversight. Delving into what happened with the family separations, delving into these conflicts of interests with the cabinet and with Trump that are never going to be the subject of criminal probes.

[06:05:10] HARLOW: So do you mean, for example, when it comes to finances, the Emoluments Clause?

ROGERS: I mean -- I mean more the conflicts of interest. This notion of whether U.S. policy is being set based on not is what in the best interests of the country but what is in the best interest of Trump and his pocketbook and the Kushner business.

HARLOW: Like the Saudi arms deal, for example.

ROGERS: Exactly. And those are things that are not going to be quid pro quo cases. So they're not going to be criminal. Those are the things that I think Congress really should focus on.

AVLON: And Congress has the unique power in the House Ways and Means Committee to eventually get and release Trump's taxes. And that's going to be -- that's why they're moving down that road today. And that's something that's really a unique power and something they campaigned on, and this is happening.

BERMAN: And it's code.

AVLON: It's going to get contested, but it's going forward.

BERMAN: It's in the -- it's in the U.S. Code.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: This is written law which gives the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee the ability to go in --

HARLOW: Democrat.

BERMAN: -- yes, taxes. That chair is now Richie Neal from Massachusetts, and he's going to go after that, Laura. And he's holding hearings today. What the chairman is doing is trying to create a predicate to explain why he wants them.

Legally speaking, I'm not even sure he needs to do that. He can just do it if he wants to, but he's trying to create a public regard here. Does the administration and the president and the White House and maybe his personal lawyers, do they have a way to keep this from happening?

COATES: Well, the idea of the finances and the tax returns being a part of an investigation, I think it's safe to say that the Mueller team probably already has access to it through the grand jury subpoena power they already have. We don't know that they actually have, but they probably already do. I think what the lawyers should probably be trying to focus on on

behalf of Trump is figuring out why the president has set this red line and anticipating that they may actually lose that battle, and having that be a public document and be available to Congress.

The reason about the entire shift probe and the commensurate -- I mean, the corresponding investigation now into his taxes is all answering the question why? Why has there seemed to have been a trend of this administration that they happen to be marionettes of foreign nations or at least outwardly in public are appearing to be so?

And so the idea of trying to shut down a congressional probe into whether or not the president of the United States is beholden to a foreign entry is going to be a very uphill battle for a personal attorney to try to combat.

Now the Office of the White House Counsel may have a larger role here in trying to ensure, in the long run, that the office of the presidency, not simply the incumbent, will have certain protections about what is made public. And that may be the uphill battle. But not the private attorneys.

HARLOW: And, by the way, this request, right, through Neal leading this committee, will have to go through the treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin --

BERMAN: Yes.

HARLOW: -- who we know is with the president.

BERMAN: You don't think -- you don't think he's going to rush down to the file cabinet, pull out the tax returns and run them over?

HARLOW: I'm not sure of that one. So it does have to go through him. There is a process here. But yes, these three entities that could request the tax returns up until, you know, the election, were headed by Republicans and now Neal has, as a Democrat.

Can we just listen to Adam Schiff responding to -- the president calls this harassment. Here's how Adam Schiff, the chair of the Intel Committee, here's how he sees it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIFF: The American people have a right to know, indeed have a need to know that their president is acting on their behalf and not for some pecuniary or other reason. That pertains to any credible allegations of leverage by the Russians or the Saudis or anyone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Mr. Avlon.

AVLON: Russians, Saudis, follow the money. You know, Schiff there echoing almost the American people have a right to know whether the president's a crook. This shows, I mean, how serious this is. And, again, just on -- going

back to the taxes for one second, remember, this is all against the backdrop of the fact that almost every president we've had previously has released their taxes. So normally, this is not necessary. And this could be difficult, not impossible, difficult to claim executive privilege around this because of those precedents.

So -- but Schiff coming in, and he's really focused on the money. And that is -- that is much broader and that may be where the real vulnerabilities lie, as you say. You say why did Trump draw the red line there? Why is this such a point of specific sensitivity? We'll find out. And the American people do have a right to know.

BERMAN; It's so interesting, too. You say in this case what the committee should be doing is to look beyond the areas where the Mueller investigation or maybe SDNY.

Another thing committees do that they don't do with SDNY or Mueller, is they can ask public questions. They can hold public hearings. They can air this dirty laundry if they want to in their own way. I'm very curious who they will try to sit down there and question.

ROGERS: Yes, I am, too. You know, we'll have to wait and see. I think they're going to be digging into first on the one side the finances. So they'll be talking to, they'll be looking at the documents and probably wanting to talk again to people like Alan Weisselberg, you know, the CFO of the Trump Organization.

People who know about the money. And, you know, Don Jr. and Eric Trump are two people, obviously, who are in the know on that, too.

On the other side of the House, they're going to be wanting to think about these conflicts so they'll be wanting to kind of study the administration's actions, talk to people in the administration who are responsible for decision making and see whether those two things are linked.

[06:10:08] BERMAN: Just one more thing, and before we even get there, the first thing the Intelligence Committee did yesterday was voted to release all the transcripts --

HARLOW: Right.

BERMAN: -- from last term's hearings to the Mueller investigation. Is that symbolic or does that have real implications?

Because the Mueller team, my understanding, was they knew what was said behind closed doors. They had seen maybe not the official transcripts, but the unofficial transcripts. And where they wanted and needed the official transcript for official legal action, they went and got it. But the Roger Stone thing, they went and got that.

Do we have any reason to believe they feel the need to go and get other transcripts?

ROGERS: Yes, that's what's so interesting here, because you do feel like, you know, Roger Stone, they obtained the transcript. They charged him with false statements. If they were going to charge, say, Don Jr., for example, you would have thought they would have just gone ahead and made that official request.

Now, maybe there was some reason they felt that they couldn't, and they do still plan to charge him or someone else with these false statements. But it does kind of give me pause that they were able to do it in one circumstance and if they were going to charge, you think they would have just done it.

AVLON: It really also highlights there's a new sheriff in town. You know, under Devin Nunes, the House Intelligence Committee really was not performing oversight. It was really working hand in glove with the White House. In some cases, you know, famous midnight runs to get on the same page with regarding stories that later fell apart.

So this really is Democrats saying, "We're here now. This is going to be a real investigation. Checks and balances, full-court press." And it happens just 48 hours, less than 48 hours after Donald Trump said, "You can't have legislation with investigation."

HARLOW: Right.

AVLON: Well --

HARLOW: You can.

AVLON: You can.

HARLOW: Laura Coates, put a button on it for us. The president says this is, in his words, "presidential harassment."

I am interested, if there is any line legally as to how much the American public has the right to see in terms of a president's tax returns, for example. I mean, does he and his legal team have any claim to privacy here?

COATES: The president has claims of privacy when it relates to things of privileged communications. But of course, it has to be privileged in the accepts that he was already the president of the United States.

HARLOW: OK.

COATES: And he was conferring with his cabinet members.

We're not here with a tax return. That happened before he was the president of the United States. He has a very odd claim about privilege.

Now, every citizen of the United States does have certain privacy rights. This isn't one of them.

BERMAN: It's clear to me that, again, the U.S. code allows the Ways and Means chair to go get it. What's not clear to me is that it allows him or her to release it publicly.

HARLOW: That's important.

BERMAN: I'm not quite sure the mechanism for that. Maybe that's something where the White House --

HARLOW: But never ever leaks.

BERMAN: There are no leaks ever.

All right. Jennifer, Laura, John, thank you very much.

What is going on?

HARLOW: In Virginia?

BERMAN: In Virginia.

Political crisis engulfing now the top three statewide office holders, all Democrats, in that state. What happens if they all get pushed out? What does this mean about politics and politicians and their past? And what does this mean for the Democratic Party that wants to hold people to a higher standard? Live report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:50] BERMAN: All right. What is going on in Virginia there? A full-scale political crisis. The state's top three lawmakers now facing separate scandals, although they're all interconnected, and maybe they will be forced from their jobs.

If all three Democrats did step down, it would be a Republican who would become the next governor.

Jason Carroll is live at the Richmond state house with the very latest -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, one resident put it to me this way. He said you wake up in the state of Virginia and wonder what's going to happen next.

You've got the governor. You've got lieutenant-governor. You've got the state attorney general all involved in scandal. And folks here wondering if they'll survive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): Growing turmoil engulfing Virginia's political leadership, with the state's top three officials, all Democrats, confronting separate controversies. Attorney General Mark Herring admitting to wearing black face at a college party in 1980 amid the firestorm over this racist picture on Governor Ralph Northam's medical school yearbook page.

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM (D), VIRGINIA: I was appalled that they showed up on my Facebook page. But I believed then and now that I am not either of the people in that photo. CARROLL: Herring writing in a statement, "Some friends suggested we

attend a party dressed like rappers we listened to, and because we did not have an appreciation for the experiences and perspectives of others, we dressed up and put on wigs and brown makeup," adding, "The shame of that moment has haunted me for decades."

Hours after Herring's revelation, Vanessa Tyson coming forward publicly for the first time, accusing the state's lieutenant governor, Justin Fairfax, of sexual assault. Tyson writing in a statement that she met Fairfax at the 2004 Democratic convention and went with him to his hotel room, where she says they began kissing before, "Mr. Fairfax put his hand behind my neck and forcefully pushed my head towards his crouch." Tyson insisting, "I did not want to engage in oral sex with Mr. Fairfax, and I never gave any form of consent."

LT. GOV. JUSTIN FAIRFAX (D), VIRGINIA: You think it's any coincidence on the eve of potentially my being elevated. That's when this uncorroborated smear comes out.

CARROLL: Fairfax has fiercely denied the accusations, releasing a new statement Wednesday, reading, "Dr. Tyson should be treated with respect, but I cannot agree to a description of events that simply is not true."

A source close to Tyson's legal team telling CNN that she told Democratic Congressman Bobby Scott about the incident over a year ago. Aides to Scott confirming the conversation, but noting, "The congressman did not learn the full scope of the allegation until yesterday."

Meanwhile, "The Washington Post" editorial board this morning is calling for Governor Northam's resignation, writing that he can no longer effectively serve the people of Virginia who elected him.

But Northam showing no signs of stepping down, hiring a crisis management team and meeting privately with prominent leaders to strategize his path forward. The political crisis is sending shockwaves through his state's leadership.

[06:20:05] SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: I'm shocked, disappointed. I'm still processing it.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VIRGINIA: If you look for any silver lining, it's that Virginians are saying clearly and loudly that behaviors are unacceptable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: So moving forward, if all three Democrats were to step down, the next person in line would be Kirk Cox. He is the state House speaker. He is a Republican, and he has already called for the resignation of the governor -- Poppy, John.

HARLOW: All right. A lot there, Jason. Thank you for being there and for bringing us that reporting this morning. Let's discuss it. Jackie Kucinich, Washington bureau chief for "The

Daily Beast"; Toluse Olorunnipa, the White House correspondent of "The Washington Post"; and John Avlon.

Good morning, everyone. Toluse, to you. You know, there is all of the specifics about what's going on in Virginia and then the national implications for the party, right? And your read this morning is the Democrats are now learning the perils of zero tolerance.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": That's exactly right. The Democrats that have that zero tolerance policy that they use towards people who are accused of, whether it's a sexual misconduct or racist incidents. They talked about it in discussing President Trump in his history.

Now they're realizing that, in order to maintain a certain level of credibility, they have to keep that zero tolerance policy when these allegations affect other Democrats.

And they're finding how difficult that might be, now that it's ensnared the top three Democrats in Virginia, and it's made it very difficult for them to explain their past positions on things like Brett Kavanaugh, the Supreme Court justice who many Democrats called for to resign or to step aside during his nomination when the -- when various allegations came out against him.

And trying to figure out whether or not they should take that same standard to the lieutenant governor, now that there's a detailed account of alleged sexual misconduct on his behalf back in 2004.

So Democrats stand the risk of being seen as hypocrites if they don't keep that same standard, and it's a very difficult standard to keep because neither party has a monopoly on racism or sexual misconduct. And it's because difficult for a number of top Democrats to figure out how to maneuver in this environment without calling for the resignation of all top three Democrats in Virginia.

BERMAN: Sure. And Jackie, when you do look at this, though, and this has been going on now five days. People said at the beginning, how can Ralph Northam survive. And then how can Justin Fairfax survive. And they can say the same thing about the attorney general.

Well, there is a template. I mean, there's a very good template for this now. And it may be that the Democrats might put those high standards off to the side a little bit and learn the lesson the Republicans learned in some cases. You just wait this out. You just wait it out. It's happened before.

You know, the Supreme Court, you know, Brett Kavanaugh is on the Supreme Court. Donald Trump is president of the United States. Sometimes if you just wait out these scandals, politics prevails.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, right. But I think in Virginia, they're looking forward to this next election where Democrats actually were poised. They were hoping to take over the state house, which is sort of the last frontier in state politics where they hadn't taken over.

Let's not forget: the speaker of the House there, who is a Republican, is only speaker of the House, because a delegate drew his name out of a bowl because he and it was -- the Democrat were separated by one vote. So it's only by chance that he is the top of the state House to begin with.

So they're not only looking at these top three. This is about Virginia Democrats' future in that state.

BERMAN: And redirecting, by the way.

HARLOW: And redistricting.

BERMAN: Let me show you the headline of "The New York Post" here. Again, this is New York. They have no hesitance to go after Virginia.

"Virginia is for losers" is what they are saying at this point, John. John, if you look at this nationally, again, what will the Democrats do nationally? I actually don't think there's a dilemma. As far as I can tell, almost all national Democrats have called for Northam to resign.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: Almost all national Democrats, now that they've been pushed on Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax, they say that Vanessa Tyson, Professor Tyson, we should hear her story. They want to learn more. They haven't called on him to resign yet.

But no one's defending the lieutenant governor at this point. They'll all call for this to end, and they'll just leave it up to Virginia to make their own decision.

AVLON: That's right. And look, Democrats have really come back to power in Virginia in recent years. And this kind of full-court press of real scandal, self-inflicted scandals by the top of the ticket, is a real setback.

I think you're right to say is the new standard the Trump standard? The Kavanaugh standard, wait it out. Can Northam do that?

And against it all, I mean, look, you've got two black-face scandals in 2019. And from Megyn Kelly, this keeps resurfacing, it's evidence that conservatives like to say which politics is downstream from culture.

There obviously is something odd happening, and it's obviously laden with the history of Virginia that black face keeps popping up in these college experiences. The A.G. trying to get out ahead of it.

But it's an opportunity to examine a certain sickness in our society. And to try to come to terms with it, however belatedly. But also to say, look, you know, neither party has a monopoly on virtue or vices, Toluse said. [06:25:10] And the idea that, you know, that this is a particularly

Democratic problem doesn't hold any water at all. There's been a neo- confederate strain that Republicans are playing footsie with for quite some time. So when are we going to apply equal standards and as we resuscitate these old political ghosts?

HARLOW: I hear that, Toluse, complicating things. And really troubling this morning to learn is that a congressman -- that the congressman was told and his staff acknowledges -- and there are e- mails about the allegations of, you know, sexual assault and misconduct by Dr. Tyson, her allegations a year ago.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. One of the defenses that the lieutenant governor has put out there is that this is only coming out now that he's about to potentially be elevated to the governor position.

But this allegation was actually circulated more than a year ago, not only to the congressman but to some reporters. And it's clear that this is not just something that's coming out only because he's potentially about to be elevated.

So that sort of strikes at one of the defenses that the lieutenant governor has tried to use.

HARLOW: But just also the responsibility of this member of Congress and his team.

OLORUNNIPA: That's exactly right. And we see his team trying to clean it up now saying that he wasn't aware of the full scope of the allegations.

But there is a certain responsibility, and we saw the same situation with Senator Dianne Feinstein with the Kavanaugh hearings of what do you do when one of your constituents or one of your citizens has an allegation that may potentially affect someone in power? Do you keep it quiet? Do you go public? Do you call for an investigation? I think there's going to be some scrutiny on this congressman about how he handled that and whether he took the right steps.

This is now an on the record accusation with not contemporaneous corroboration, but corroboration before the current political crisis here, if she did go forward, if Dr. Tyson went to Bobby Scott, the congressman there, a year ago before this issue all came to a head. That really is interesting there.

And, Jackie, again, if Democrats were to hold themselves to the standard that they laid out before, there isn't much question about what they would do. They have set the precedent with Al Franken at first, and how they questioned Brett Kavanaugh at first. I mean, they have set that bar high, national Democrats have.

KUCINICH: Yes.

BERMAN: I do think the question is what is Virginia going to do about it? I do think perhaps Ralph Northam's in a better position today, ironically, than he might have been two days ago, because his attorney general did the same -- his attorney general, who called for him to resign.

HARLOW: Did the same thing.

BERMAN: Turns out did the same thing.

KUCINICH: Well, so on -- on Northam, it seems like "The Washington Post" is drawing the distinction in that editorial that Northam initially said that he wasn't in the photo -- or was in the photo and then he wasn't in the photo. And his changing story is as much a part of that resignation demand as his actual acts.

Talking about Lieutenant Governor Fairfax, it is -- it has been -- the silence has been deafening from national Democrats. Also it's putting to the test the activist class, who were very vocal during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings. Most of them have been very quiet as these allegations -- as they've surfaced.

And then yesterday, when you had that agonizing account of what allegedly happened in that hotel room in Boston from the woman who was accusing Fairfax. So it really is putting them in a tough position.

And they're going to have to come forward and say something, particularly someone like Gillibrand, who was very vocal when it came to Al Franken and some of these other -- and some of these other issues over the last year.

HARLOW: But you'll remember with her there's a lot of reporting on big donor Democrats pulling away from her after she did that.

KUCINICH: That's right.

HARLOW: So you wonder now that she's running, you know, will it change things?

All right. Everyone, thank you very, very much. We'll stay on this. Republican congressman sparking anger, fury at a House hearing on gun violence. We'll tell you what he did next.

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