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Beto O'Rourke Running for President; Senate Votes to Block Trump's Emergency Declaration. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 14, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are back with the breaking news. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

So here you go. For the second time in two days now, you have Republicans rebuking this president, at least a dozen Republican senators joining their Democratic colleagues to vote to block the emergency declaration that the president issued to build a wall on the southern border, the defections based on the belief Trump's emergency oversteps a president's authority.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: I have got concerns about this legal framework. This is not about the president. This is not about my disagreement with or disapproval of the president or his approach to border security or his desire to build a barrier along our southern border.

I think all those things need to happen.

But this law, Mr. President, is wrong. It's not President Trump's fault. It's Congress'. We need to change it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So let's go back to our senior congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, who has been watching that vote there.

And so, all right, we thought maybe, maybe it could be 14 Republicans, but it landed with 12. Quite a rebuke.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right -- 59-41 was the final vote tally, short of the 67 needed to override a veto.

So that veto will be sustained. And just moments ago, Lindsey Graham talked to reporters and said that he spoke to the president, and the president, according to Lindsey Graham, said that the veto will be sustained. He said that Graham said to Trump that they want to find a way forward in October when they will have to deal with this fiscal fight again to try to look at ways to change the national emergency laws, which is what a number of Republicans were urging him to get behind, a possible change to future use of the national emergency. They were urging him to do that to avoid significant defections. The

president refused initially to get behind that, one reason why you saw a sizable number of Republicans today, 12, who announced that they voted against the president. Those 12 include people like Marco Rubio and Rob Portman, people who are up for reelection like Susan Collins, other moderates like Lisa Murkowski, but also Mitt Romney, Lamar Alexander, Roy Blunt, who's a member of the Republican leadership, and Rand Paul, the conservative, Mike Lee, another conservative, and the Kansas Republican Jerry Moran.

These Republicans not comfortable with the pitch that the White House was making behind the scenes, the president was making publicly, urging them to stick with him, worried about the precedent this would set. And so now, as a result, the president is faced with his first veto of his presidency.

That lead is going to a House vote in the coming days to try to override his veto. They are short of a veto override in the House as well. That ultimately means it will be up to the courts to decide whether or not the president has the legal authority to move forward with this emergency declaration, to essentially move money around to fund his border wall, but, Brooke, significant, bipartisan majorities in both chambers rebuking the president on this key issue that he's campaigned on so hard, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Manu, thank you. That's the latest on the hill.

Let's go down the road to the White House and get reaction there from our correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

And, Kaitlan, you have been reporting that this administration was preparing for this, they saw this -- the president saw this as a loyalty test.

What do you think that they're thinking?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, President Trump was paying very close attention to who was voting with him on this vote and who was voting against him. And that's why the White House had been engaged in this pressure campaign over the last week to try to limit the number of defections here.

Now, the White House officials are pretty realistic about this. They felt that there could be 10 people. That's what they were hoping, less than 10, fewer than 10 were going to vote against the president. But they were not picturing 12.

They did think maybe it could go up to 14, but they were right there in the middle with these 12 Republicans voting against the president. Now, you saw some people change their votes here. Thom Tillis is someone who implied heavily last week when he wrote that op-ed decrying the president's use of his power here, saying that he was going to vote against the president and vote yes to overturn this national emergency declaration, and then shortly before the vote, he announced he was going to be voting no and siding with President Trump.

Now, if you read this op-ed, he's essentially arguing that when conservatives complain about President Obama overstepping his authority, you couldn't just turn the tables just because a Republican is in the White House. But he did turn the tables because he did side with President Trump on this.

Now, what's worth noting here is that Thom Tillis is up for reelection, as his Cory Gardner, two people who the White House has been pressuring inn recent days to side with the president on this.

And, Brooke, we reported that the White House was telling them not only is this not a throwaway vote where you can just vote how you feel, the president is going to be paying very close attention. This is going to affect your standing with the White House. And if you're up for reelection, you could be primaried and we may play a role in that.

They were sending pretty thinly veiled threats to these senators, warning not to buck the president. But, Brooke, to be clear, these 12 Republicans did vote against Trump. That's not a good look for the White House. They don't want this narrative that the Republicans are bucking the president. And that's really what the narrative is going to be here on out.

BALDWIN: Yes, that list of 12 Republicans is exactly that.

[15:05:02]

Kaitlan, thank you with the White House.

Let's chat with some of my favorite ladies here, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Ana Navarro and CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

And so, Ana, to you first. You have seen the list of the 12 who have rebuked this president. Your biggest surprise?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I have to say bravo, bravo, bravo.

I think the -- look, Congress needs to remember it is a co-equal branches of government. It is an independent branch of government. It is not subservient to the executive, regardless of whether the president in there is a Republican or a Democrat, whether it is your team or the opposite team.

You should still have the same principles are the same convictions about the role that the legislative should play. And, yes, if you were against the Obama executive actions -- and practically every Republican was -- then have consistency.

BALDWIN: You have to be against...

NAVARRO: If you don't want to be called a hypocrite, if you don't want to be called a coward. But I will tell you, it does take a great deal of courage to go against Donald Trump. We saw what he did in 2018 with Republicans that were not loyal to him, whether it was Mia Love or Carlos Curbelo. Not only did he -- not only did he participate in beating them. He then danced on their political grave.

Hell, he was still dancing on John McCain's literal grave after he died because John McCain was not loyal to him. This guy's loyalty test is Italian-mafia style. So going against him has consequences.

BASH: Dana, what do you think?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I totally agree.

This is going to be a moment in -- a pivotal moment in the Trump presidency. Unclear if this is the first of many or if this is unique for all the reasons that Ana just laid out, because this is a real test of principle vs. party, of Constitution and consistency vs. party and loyalty to the president.

But, look, we have seen some big issues like sanctions against Russia, where the president was overwhelmingly pushed to one side by Republicans against his will. But this is about as close to his political heart as it gets, his border wall.

And for a dozen Republicans to say oh, no, no, no, Mr. President, this is not the way the Constitution is supposed to work, you're not supposed to say, OK, I'm going to sign this legislation that Congress agreed to in a bipartisan way, and then, never mind, I'm going to do this on an emergency basis.

The one thing that will be interesting to see is whether -- we will need to look forward on this -- whether the courts -- because, as Manu said, this is going to be all about the courts now -- will use the president's words against him, his words from the Rose Garden last month when he said, I could have taken my time and done this, which is -- could and would be and will be used by his opponents to prove that this is not the emergency that he says it is at the southern border.

BALDWIN: and , playing it forward, lands on the president's desk. Presumably, this is his first veto ever. You would need the -- correct my math -- two-thirds majority. So, 67, is that right, 67 votes, which they just wouldn't have.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: No, they wouldn't have. Based on what we just saw, they don't come close.

So it is a symbolic rebuke. It will force him to use his veto pen for the very first time. But, ultimately, it's not going to change in Congress. It is going to have to be the courts that will decide whether or not this really is constitutional.

(CROSSTALK) NAVARRO: For me, the fact that it is symbolic, I'm proud of these 12 even more, because, for symbolism, they are willing to suffer the consequences of going against Donald Trump.

And when we say going against Donald Trump has consequences, let's remember Mark Sanford, Jeff Flake, Carlos Curbelo, Mia Love. Look, Donald Trump prefers to have a Democrat hold a seat, whether in Congress or the Senate, then have a Republican who dares ever act or speak against him, as mildly as it might be and as symbolically as it might be.

He is pretty manic when it comes to loyalty tests. And, as we know, the guy can hold a grudge. And so he might not remember facts, but he remembers who crossed him, who was with him and who wasn't with him.

And so the fact that they did this, knowing that they were probably going to lose...

BALDWIN: That they were going to join the list on the little black book?

NAVARRO: I -- this is for me a glimmer of hope with the Republican Party.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Dana.

BASH: And you need not look any further than Thom Tillis, right, Ana?

NAVARRO: Right.

BASH: I mean, he was -- he was so worked up about this that he actually penned an op-ed for "The Washington Post" about it.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What changed?

BASH: Exactly what Ana said.

He's going to be up for reelection. And the threat of a primary was dangled in front of him, was put...

[15:10:05]

BALDWIN: But that was dangling over him when he wrote that op-ed in "The Post" a week ago.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: The difference was, was that Mike Lee was trying to work out a compromise.

BALDWIN: Right.

NAVARRO: Remember, they offered Donald Trump a life raft. They offered him a way out.

BALDWIN: They were saying, they don't do this again.

NAVARRO: Yes, just they were offering themselves a way out. Let's come up with some sort of fig leaf thing where we say, OK, we will let this one slide, but none from now on to any president.

And Donald Trump is so arrogant and so focused on the loyalty test that he said, no, and prefers this rebuke by 12 Republicans, so that then he can have the chits against them.

BALDWIN: So then what does Senator Graham, in listening to Manu's reporting, saying that he said the Trump we will find a way forward in October when we come up against this again?

What does that look like?

BASH: If I could answer that question, I would be I don't know what.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: I would have a crystal ball and the lottery number and all things in between.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: But the fact is, this isn't going away. And this is an issue that comes up every year. It is Congress that does have the power of the purse. They are going to have to appropriate money once again for Homeland Security, and the wall money will be controversial.

We saw the president's budget just this week asking for over $8 billion. It is going to be a point of contention. So how you get through that controversy and the very deep divide over that money, which, of course, is a symptom of the divide over the philosophy and the ideology, good luck with that.

NAVARRO: And that also depends on the timing of how long it takes this process to wind through the courts.

BASH: Yes.

NAVARRO: Remember that there's now something like 20 different states -- a coalition of 20 states led by Xavier Becerra, the A.G. of California -- confronting this and challenging the constitutionality of this.

Best thing that could happen to Republicans is for them to win in court and for them not to have to face this and the wrath of Santa Claus Trump, who keeps a list of who's been nice and who's been naughty.

BALDWIN: Naughty 12 Republicans, it sounds like, as of today.

Ana Navarro, Dana Bash, ladies, you're the best. Thank you. Coming up next, Beto O'Rourke launches his 2020 bid with a spread in

"Vanity Fair" and his first trip to Iowa, claiming he is the candidate who can unite the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: Running a campaign in the most democratic -- small D -- way possible, will you show up everywhere? And no one is taken for granted. No one is spoken for. No one is left behind. Everyone is important, regardless of your party affiliation or geography.

That's the way not only to campaign, not only to win the nomination, not only to win the general, but that's the way to govern, is with America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Plus, I will talk to the head of a pilots union who says they raised issues about the training of that Boeing MAX 8 months ago -- how he feels about the grounding of the planes right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:20]

BALDWIN: With exactly 600 days until the 2020 election, former Texas Congressman Beto O'Rourke is announcing his bid for the presidency. And he is already campaign in the first state to hold a presidential nomination contest, that, of course, being Iowa.

He is also receiving and responding to some criticism already from President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Your reaction to Beto O'Rourke's announcement today, Mr. President?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think he's got a lot of hand movement. I have never seen so much hand movement. I said, is he crazy, or is that just the way he acts?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: President Trump made fun of your hands today.

O'ROURKE: Oh, did he?

ZELENY: What do you have to say to that? Did you see that?

O'ROURKE: I have nothing to say to that.

I think people want us to rise above the pettiness, the smallness. They want us to be big, bold, ambitious for this country, and that's what I'm focused on. That's what I see here today in Burlington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, we're going to move away from the hand jokes.

With me now, Harry Enten, senior writer and analyst for CNN Politics.

And so, all right, so he's finally in, right?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: He's finally in. He's in. He's in.

BALDWIN: He's in. He's in.

Where -- but he's already been part of so much polling previous to today. Where does he stand?

ENTEN: Yes.

So if we look at our latest Iowa caucus poll that was conducted by the Selzer group, we see he's all the way down at 5 percent. He obviously has four people ahead of him. And that's a big difference from where we were just a few months ago, when he was actually in third place in double digits. So he's dropped down as the other candidates have gotten -- kind of gotten in.

And I think the real question, Brooke, is whether or not he's able to recover once he gets in the race.

BALDWIN: So now that he is, we will watch and see if his numbers improve.

Where do the other candidates stand?

ENTEN: Yes. So, I mean, if the other candidates right now, Sanders and Biden are ahead.

And I think one of the questions is how accurate or how predictive is the polling right now, right?

BALDWIN: Yes.

ENTEN: Is it going to be the case that Biden's lead will actually hold?

And if we look back over time, with 600 days to go, look, there are a lot of losers on this list, people who didn't actually win the nomination. Giuliani was up at this point. Clinton was up in this point in 2008. Scott Walker and Jeb Bush were both tied at this point in 2016. So I think that's a real indication that we still have a lot of time.

But one thing I will point out is ,if we look back over a longer kind of span, right?

BALDWIN: To Iowa. ENTEN: If you look back at these Iowa polls, right, you see that about half the people who were leading at this point since 1980 won the nomination, about half lost. And you might say, OK, a 50/50 split, that's not really good. But keep in mind, we have like 12 people running.

So if I could tell you with 50 percent certainty who might actually win, that's not actually a bad thing.

BALDWIN: Just the fact that Joe Biden was on the top of your list a second ago, and we still don't even know if he's getting in the race, I'm -- it's still just so stunning to me.

ENTEN: To me, Joe Biden has still a very high favorite rating with Democrats because they remember his time with Barack Obama.

I think it's a real question once he gets in whether or not he's able to maintain that momentum. Can he take a punch? We will have to wait and see.

BALDWIN: OK, Harry, thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you days.

BALDWIN: Six hundred days and counting.

[15:20:00]

Moments ago, CNN's Poppy Harlow asked Senator Amy Klobuchar what she thought of Beto O'Rourke's addition to an already crowded field of Democrats. And here's what the senator had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Beto O'Rourke has joined the race.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, welcome.

HARLOW: He just announced his candidacy. Did your lane just get a little more narrow?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I think that competition is good in our party.

I believe Barack Obama has been saying this to people.

HARLOW: He said that to you, right?

KLOBUCHAR: Having a number of strong -- he said it to me. He said it to others.

Having a number of strong candidates in an election and in a race is important. And then the voters are going to be able to evaluate it. And, of course, he's someone that comes, like I do, from the center of the country. I think it's important to have people that are running that are from different parts of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: O'Rourke just finished the second of three stops today in Iowa. He is telling "Vanity Fair" that he was -- quote -- "born to do this."

Annie Leibovitz snapping this very all-American photo.

So with me to talk all things Beto O'Rourke is Bakari Sellers, CNN commentator, former state representative for South Carolina.

Bakari, it is good to see you.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Border Patrol

BALDWIN: You saw the "Vanity Fair" spread.

What did you make of this, this rollout, shall we call it?

SELLERS: I mean, I think that the rollout does leave some things to be desired. Beto O'Rourke is a personality that is well known.

His race, along with Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams, IT set the country on fire. I just think that I'm born to do this is a pretty weird tag line and slogan. I know that he has more depth than that.

But one of the things that Beto is going to have to do as he runs, this isn't a city council race in El Paso. This isn't even running for the United States Senate against probably the most disliked United States senator in the history of the country in Ted Cruz, but he's going to have to prove that he can be presidential.

He can't be someone else. This whole ploy to attempt to make Beto O'Rourke the next coming of Barack Obama is going to fall flat on its face. And so people need to be able to learn who Beto is. And the next messiah, the next Barack Obama is not going to be the case. He's going to have to demonstrate some depth.

He is a robust challenger. And I'm excited that he's in the field. I look forward to the excitement he brings to the race. But I hope that excitement also has some policy depth.

BALDWIN: Before we get to that, I just want to follow up to your point about how he saying I was born to do this. And when you talk to critics or even some just not quite sure about what they think of Beto O'Rourke so far, they would say, gosh, to say that, it just sort of drips of white male privilege.

And to think if, say, a Kamala Harris, for example, were to say, I was born to do this, what do you think the reaction would be?

SELLERS: Well, I mean, I do think that there's certain elements that we have to look at, and this just isn't a Democratic flaw, but this is a flaw we have in the United States of America.

I think that Beto O'Rourke has some privilege that allows him to do things, and I think that many of the media are glowing and gloating in a way and urging him to run for president in a way that, say, Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum have not been goaded to run.

I think that the things he said in his rollout are not things that could be said by Amy Klobuchar, by Elizabeth Warren, by Tulsi Gabbard, by Kamala Harris. And the list goes on and on and on, and Kirsten Gillibrand.

And so I do think that all of us have to take a moment and check our privilege. With that being said, there is some element of Beto being a quintessential millennial. He is someone who represents a new generation.

BALDWIN: Gen X, technically, but yes.

SELLERS: I mean, we will take him, OK?

BALDWIN: As I think we're all Gen X'es. Are we all Gen X'es here? I think we're all Gen X'es.

SELLERS: I'm not. I'm a millennial guy.

BALDWIN: Oh, are you?

SELLERS: I am a millennial, I think, yes.

BALDWIN: OK.

SELLERS: So I thought he was one of us, but maybe he's not.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

SELLERS: Regardless, he does represent a fresh face in politics.

BALDWIN: So to the point, though, I just want to say, in his favor, when he was interviewed by "Vanity Fair," he did say this, talking about his vulnerabilities running as a white man.

He said: "The government at all levels is overly represented by white men. That's part of the problem. And I'm a white man. I think it's just so important that those who would compromise my team look like this country. If I were to win, my administration looks like this country. It is the only way I know to meet the challenge."

So that at least sounds like, sounds like a solid start.

SELLERS: No, that's a bold, bold pronouncement. In fact, if you juxtapose that against Bernie Sanders, it's drastic. It's night and day from some of the things that Senator Sanders has said.

I do believe that we have the most diverse field that we have had in the history of politics on either side. You have Julian Castro, you have Kamala Harris, you have Kirsten Gillibrand, you have the most women, the most minorities. You have Cory Booker. You have Beto O'Rourke. I do believe the Democratic Party will have a diverse ticket. I think

that means for all of those people who were having some Beto-Biden dreams, that may not be the case.

BALDWIN: Yet. We will see.

Bakari Sellers, 600 days to go. Anything is possible. Thank you.

SELLERS: It's only 600 days, Brooke, only 600 days.

BALDWIN: Only 600, not that anyone's counting right here.

[15:25:03]

Bakari, thank you.

SELLERS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Right now, the flight data recorders from the deadly Ethiopian Air crash are in France for analysis, this as all of the Boeing MAX 8 and MAX 9 jets remain grounded.

I will get reaction from the head of a pilots union about whether that was done quickly enough.

And we reported the Senate blocked the president's emergency declaration just a bit ago, with those 12 Republican senators voting against him. Well, his first response is one single, solitary word.

Have ever seen this from the president? One word, veto, via tweet, of course. It would be the first veto of his presidency.

Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro, who authored the resolution to terminate the declaration, is urging the House to hold a vote to override the aforementioned veto -- more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)