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Trump May Publically Veto the Wall Emergency Rebuke; Ethiopian Pilot Knew Immediately of Trouble; Rocket Attack in Israel Likely Mistake. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired March 15, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: First on those numbers there. In the Senate and the House, very unlikely you get to the numbers, the two-thirds necessary to override, is that right?

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "REUTERS": Yes, that's right. And that's the most important thing we're really looking for is the fact that this is not going to override his veto. So the White House isn't concerned about that.

But it is a rebuke and it's a major rebuke from members of his own party. And some people will read that as maybe the division is starting to show within the Republican Party in terms of wanting to stand up to this president.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask a question, though, and I wonder, is there an alternate read that the president wanted this veto, right, because he rejected a Republican plan to try to OK this emergency declaration but outlaw future ones. I wonder if, from his perspective politically, it may be that he likes the positioning of me against the Washington establishment.

MASON: Sure. Well, he can use it. Whether he wanted it or not, he can certainly use it. And he no doubt will when he goes out on the campaign trail, when he starts doing rallies again. He can talk about the fact that, look, I've done everything I could to get this wall. I shut the government down when I needed to. That's what he would say. He will veto this -- will veto this resolution, including against people of his own party to stand up for what he believes in.

SCIUTTO: So, as you mentioned, this question as to whether this is part -- I don't want to say a wave, but of a new trend among Republicans being willing to split with a very popular president among Republicans.

MASON: Sure.

SCIUTTO: You had a vote earlier this week going against the administration on the U.S. -- (INAUDIBLE) war in Yemen. You have a push to hold Saudi Arabia accountable for the murder of Khashoggi in a way that the administration has not, a push among Republicans. Does the White House fear that it's facing a newly -- I don't know if intransigent is too strong a word, but a Republican Party that's willing to challenge him? MASON: I'm not -- I don't get the sense that they fear anything. I

think that they feel very confident going into the 2020 election. If anything, they think that Republicans who stray will suffer in that election as well.

SCIUTTO: And they threatened them, did they not?

MASON: And they're saying so. Yes, exactly. And so I don't see a lot of fear here, but there is risk and there is risk politically if that wave, if it is a wave, continues.

SCIUTTO: Well, there's risk for folks in red states, right, to find the president.

MASON: Sure.

SCIUTTO: But there are risks for others who are -- who are up for re- election. Tillis among them. Cory Gardener in Colorado actually an interesting no vote on this resolution and he's up for re-election in a state where it could be difficult.

MASON: Yes, he's venerable. That's my home state.

SCIUTTO: OK.

MASON: And there are people already out there trying -- getting already to try to beat him on the Democratic side.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you just, on a separate topic, the president gave really a rather unsettling statement to "Breitbart" last night, one of the many friendly outlets that he often gives interviews to. Just a quote here, you know the left plays a tough game. It's very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don't play it tougher. OK? I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump. I have the tough people but they don't play it tough until they goes to a certain point and then it would be very bad, bad.

I know on our air last night Kellyanne Conway was disputing that this was in any way a reference to possible violence by Trump supporters. Do you think that's a fair argument?

MASON: You know, it's up to the White House and it's up to the president to say what that means. But he's certainly dancing around or giving a nod to the fact that his supporters could be violent. And that's not the only time he's done it.

SCIUTTO: Right.

MASON: He's done it --

SCIUTTO: Remind us when he has done that elsewhere.

MASON: During the campaign he referenced Second Amendment people could stop a president Hillary Clinton from installing liberal judges.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MASON: He's made other references to -- to violence. And it's -- you know, the White House will say that's not a call to violence. Some people might call that plausible deniability. The question is, how to his supporters interpret it.

SCIUTTO: So it would be an easy one today to say, trust me, that's not what I was saying. We haven't heard that.

MASON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Jeff Mason, thanks very much.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, up next, how Minnesota senator and 2020 presidential hopeful Amy Klobuchar says she's trying to stem the opioid crisis and put a check on big tech. And why she interestingly calls Republican Senator Chuck Grassley a maverick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What, senator, should the American people expect you and Senator Grassley to do together to actually get signed into law?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They should expect that these bills, which is really just legislation to take on pharma and say you don't own Washington and start doing something about this, even beyond opioids, for the high cost of prescription drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We'll watch.

Also, a new four-part CNN original series explores President Nixon's rise, fall, comeback and political destruction, "Tricky Dick," the series featuring never before seen footage. It premiers this Sunday night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:54] HARLOW: All right, happening now, Senator Amy Klobuchar speaking at the Human Rights Campaign's Equality Convention in Washington, D.C. Of course she is also a 2020 presidential hopeful. I sat down with the Minnesota senator yesterday for an exclusive wide ranging interview because she's known to reach across the aisle and even in a divided Congress to do that and has found plenty of Republicans to join her when it comes to taking on big pharma and trying to reign in big tech. In fact, she calls Republican Senator Chuck Grassley a maverick.

Here's part of our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Fed Chair Jerome Powell said this past week that the opioid crisis has essentially created a lost generation, especially of young men in this country, who are, in his words, not taking part in the economic life of the country in a meaningful way because they're addicted to drugs or they're in jail.

Do you think Congress truly understands how severe this crisis is and are enough lawmakers willing to actually work together to do something that really curbs it?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they understand now. I think early on I remember when I started working on this because we are starting to see deaths in our state and we also have a number of very good treatment centers. So they had come to me and told me, including Hazelton Betty Ford, about what was going on. So I joined forces with Rob Portman, the Republican from Ohio, and Sheldon Whitehouse, and at the time Kelly Ayotte. And we got together and put this bill forward for a blueprint. And I remember some of the other senators kind of patting us on the head saying, oh, yes.

[09:40:32] HARLOW: Really?

KLOBUCHAR: Because people didn't understand how bad it was and how quickly addicted people were to opioids and that it was actually legal prescriptions that a lot of them were addicted to.

HARLOW: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: And that's how we started. And from then I'd say there is a much bigger realization, not just for opioids, but all drugs and that we need to approach these -- I always used to say as a prosecutor, we wanted to be efficient like a business, but we're not a business in one important way, we don't like to see repeat customers.

HARLOW: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: And the way you stop repeat customers in the criminal justice system is by making sure people get treatment.

HARLOW: You have a Republican champion in terms of big pharma and big pharma (ph) reform and that's Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley. You said of big pharma companies, think they that they own Washington. He and you are really on the same page on a lot of this stuff, which might be surprising to a lot of the American public. What senator should the American public expect you and Senator Grassley to do together to actually get signed into law?

KLOBUCHAR: They should expect that these bills, which is really just legislation to take on pharma and say you don't own Washington and start doing something about this, even beyond opioids, for the high cost of prescription drugs. And Chuck Grassley's a bit of a maverick. He's now chair of the finance committee. So he should be in a place to bring these bills up. Because one argument is they're costing our country a ton of money. The fact that these prescription drugs, four of the top ten selling drugs have gone up over 100 percent in just ten years. Insulin in 20 years went from something like $17 a vile to over $130 a vile. For a simple drug that's been around for nearly a century.

HARLOW: You have said, senator, that these issues with big pharma have been neglected under any administration for the last 20 years. So clearly that includes the Obama administration. What did the Obama administration not do on this front that they should have done?

KLOBUCHAR: I would have liked to see this be part of the Affordable Care Act. But it wasn't, in part because they were working with the pharmaceutical companies on the premiums issue, they were working with them on getting support for the Affordable Care Act because they knew that pharma could stop that bill in its tracks.

HARLOW: So a missed opportunity?

KLOBUCHAR: I see it as a missed opportunity. But now we must move forward. And that's why I think both parties have been guilty of not bringing these up. But there's one party in charge right now, and that's the Republican Party. So I want to see them bring these bills up for a vote.

HARLOW: On the Senate side.

KLOBUCHAR: And I think we could pass them.

HARLOW: You said in your announcement speech in Minnesota, way too many politicians have their heads stuck in the sand when it comes to the digital revolution.

Have big tech and social media companies taken advantage of a Congress that just doesn't really seem to get it? We saw those hearings.

KLOBUCHAR: Two things going on. One, just like with pharmaceuticals where they have two lobbyists for every member of Congress, tech also has been showing their muscle and has been really dominating the decisions.

HARLOW: But that's legal. I mean having those lobbyists is legal. So does Congress need to get it?

KLOBUCHAR: It's legal, but they basically have told the public and told Congress, oh, don't worry, this is complicated and we have everyone's backs.

HARLOW: Have the big tech companies taken advantage of many in Congress who don't seem to get it?

KLOBUCHAR: I think that -- I wouldn't -- taking advantage makes it sound like there's not a two-way street. I think there are members of Congress that had their eyes closed because they didn't want to deal with this. And I also think there was tech that was singing the song that they all like the tune of because they didn't know their own song.

And their own song is that this is a very messy area. There's no privacy legislation in place. And now we're having hearings where the tech companies are saying, oh, this isn't fair. States are doing their own bills. Well, the only reason states are doing their own bills is because nothing happened in Washington. So this is the time to act and pass things.

HARLOW: You want to tax big tech. KLOBUCHAR: Uh-huh.

HARLOW: How would you do that? And will you get enough Republican support to add an additional tax on corporations?

KLOBUCHAR: It could easily happen because you do see some Republicans that are speaking out against some of these practices that tech has in place. And my idea is, if they're going to be using people's data in large quantities and they're using it or they're selling it or they're --

HARLOW: Which they do.

KLOBUCHAR: Right. Then the public isn't getting anything about for it. So, number one, you should be able to opt out and not have your data used if you don't want it. That's a bill we have -- a bipartisan bill. Then, if you data is used, there should be a tax, not on the consumer, but on tech. Then that money can come back to our cyber security because our government is not prepared for attacks on our national security, on business, on our election systems or on individual consumers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:45:19] HARLOW: Interesting ideas. We'll see if they get traction.

Next hour, does Senator Klobuchar think that the praise that she's getting from Republicans in the Senate will help or hurt her in this Democratic primary?

Plus, Jim, how would she run against President Trump? We dive into that.

SCIUTTO: That's a key question.

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, new, disturbing details about the final minutes of that deadly Ethiopian Airlines flight.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:09] HARLOW: All right, the captain of that doomed Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 knew he was in trouble almost immediately after takeoff.

SCIUTTO: Yes, just disturbing to hear. According to "The New York Times," the pilot asked in a panicked voice for permission to return to the airport just three minutes into the flight because the plane was speeding up abnormally. A short time later, it crashed, killing all 157 people on board.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is outside Paris. And, Oren, really the key question here, right, is comparing the circumstances of this crash to the Lion Air crash to see if it's a problem with the plane.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that's part of what investigators have to go on here to see what the similarities are between that crash, the Lion Air crash from back in October, and this Ethiopian Airlines 302 crash from just a few days ago, to see if there's something that can be gleaned from the similarities and the differences between those crashes.

Part of that question will be answered right here behind me at BEA. This is the French aviation investigators. They have the black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder, that will give the best insight into not only the condition of the plane, but what was going through the pilot's mind and what were they talking about in this very short crash that happened just five minutes after takeoff.

We've learned some of that answer from "The New York Times." Just three minutes after takeoff in a panicky voice, the pilot radioed back to air traffic control, break, break, request back to home. And then, moments later, request vector for landing, in a panicky voice, giving you an idea of the chaos and the tension inside the cockpit itself.

Meanwhile, controllers had already realized something was wrong from the oscillations in altitude. Just moments after takeoff when a plane should be in a smooth climb to altitude, the plane was, instead, going up and down a few hundred feet at a time according to "The New York Times." A sure sign that something was wrong inside of the plane as they cleared and diverted two other craft to give Ethiopian Airlines 302 as much room as possible, as much leeway as possible to try to get safely back for landing.

Just a couple of minutes later, five minutes after takeoff, Ethiopian Airlines 302 crashed killing all onboard.

The investigation, again, focusing now here behind me. One of the key questions, in what condition are those black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder. If they have suffered damage, it might be different to pull the information -- that crucial information in the investigation to try to learn not only what was happening in the cockpit, but what was happening in the plane. That will be key for investigators here. The NTSB, the U.S. investigators, have sent a team here to insist (ph) as the investigation here continues to find out crucially what happened onboard Flight 302.

Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, and can it be helpful in the future once these planes are back up and running?

Oren Liebermann, we appreciate you being there in Paris, where they're looking at all of this. Thank you.

Of course, this morning, we are also following the breaking news in New Zealand, where 49 people were killed inside two different mosques during Friday prayer. Now one man has been charged with their murder, and we have the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:13] SCIUTTO: Overseas now.

The Israeli defense forces say that rocket launchers from Gaza towards Tel Aviv may have been a mistake. That according to Israeli media now.

HARLOW: Of course, those rockets landed in an open area overnight. No one, luckily, was killed. But in response, Israel launched attacks striking nearly 100 Hamas military targets in Gaza.

Our international correspondent Melissa Bell is on the Israel/Gaza border.

Look, the fact that this may have all been launched by something that was --

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I can, thank you.

HARLOW: Was arrantly done, a mistake, is shocking.

What do you know?

BELL: That's right, Poppy. But the fact that that mistake, what might have been the launching of rockets by lower-level operatives within Hamas and therefore not authorized by the leadership of the Gaza Strip, did led to this very sharp escalation. We really hadn't seen anything like it since 2014. And those images of Israel's response, we waited to see what it was. The question had not been whether but when and how big the response would be.

And when you look at those very dramatic pictures, you can see it was, in the end, 100 Hamas targets that were hit overnight, including things like an underground rocket factory, a logistics center, that kind of thing. We're hearing, though, that there were no casualties on the Gaza side. And that, no doubt, is crucial in explaining why -- how calm has been restored to this border area almost as suddenly as it was broken last night. And I think the explanation to that is that neither side particularly we're sensing, wanted to see that sort of escalation.

On the Israeli side, bear in mind, Poppy, that we're only three weeks away from a decisive election. And we're hearing from inside Gaza that overnight the Egyptian delegation that's there on the ground was very active in trying to calm the minds of everyone on that side. We did see some rocket fire returned, but for the time being it does seem that calm has been effectively restored. The factions inside saying that they are willing to see that calm restored as long as Israel is willing to do the same.

Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Melissa Bell, great to have you there on the Gaza border. Thanks very much.

HARLOW: All right, good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

[09:59:32] A difficult morning. In just a few hours, a man accused in just a breathtaking act of terror on two mosques in New Zealand is due before a judge in Christchurch to face murder charges, multiple murder charges. At least 49 people are dead, dozens more are wounded after long minutes of methodical, premeditated gunfire, first at the Al Noor mosque during Friday prayers, then at the Linwood mosque about three miles away from there. The gunman also wielded a video camera and streamed live his massacres on social media. Hours earlier he is believed to have posted a hate-filled manifesto.

END