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NEWS STREAM
Another Mass Shooting In The City Of Utrecht In The Central Netherlands; Christchurch Massacre On Friday Death Toll Now Stands At 50. Aired: 8-9a ET
Aired March 18, 2019 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, HOST, NEWS STREAM: Hello and welcome to this special edition of "News Stream." I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch.
MAX FOSTER, ANCHOR, CNN: I'm Max Foster in London with breaking news on the latest on the recent mosque attack from Kristie Lu Stout in just a
moment. We begin with this news out of the Netherlands, another mass shooting, this one in the city of Utrecht in the central Netherlands.
Atika Shubert following the story for us from Berlin -- Atika?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: That's right, Max. What we know from police is that it appears a gunman opened fire inside a tram injuring
multiple people. We're hearing reports of at least one person dead, but police have not been able to confirm that to us yet. We are waiting for a
press conference to get under way any minute now.
Most important, the shooter appears to still be at large. According to the National Terrorism Coordination Body, they said the perpetrator is a
fugitive and quote, "The shooting in Utrecht has all the characteristic of a terrorist attack for the time being." They raised the level of alert to
the highest level, level 5, and put extra security around vital areas, transportation and stopped the trams in this area, but also, they have
upped security in mosques around the area. Certainly, an indication of the security fears in the area.
We are still again waiting for word from the police. We do hope to have a press conference coming in soon, if we get any more word about who the
shooter is and what his motive might -- the motive of the shooter might have been, we will get back to you, Max.
FOSTER: We're also hearing from the military police saying the increasing security at airports. I guess, that's an automatic response when you have
got a fugitive on the run, but what does it indicate to you?
SHUBERT: Absolutely. I think it is an automatic response and I think you know, given that there have been a number of attacks like this in the
region, let's not forget what happened in Brussels and Paris, several years ago for example, that a number of places have been prepared for situations
like this.
They do have certain drills they go through and putting in extra security around airports and vital transportation and security links is crucial at
times like this. So I'm not surprised that they have done that. But the fact that the perpetrator is still on the run, appears to be at large, that
is most concerning at this point. We don't have any indication from police yet that they know where the shooter is or what his motivation might be.
So this is the most critical information that we're still waiting to get from police.
FOSTER: Well, Richard Quest is in Utrecht for us. And Richard, the threat level locally has been increased to critical, the highest level.
RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR, CNN: Yes, indeed. Behind me is the relevant tram that we're talking about and it's believed that behind that tarpaulin you
see there is believed to be a body. A briefing - it looks like it's about to take place by the local police.
The whole area has now been, as you would imagine, Max, well and truly cordoned off. In fact, they have cordoned it off all the way up to the
highway from Amsterdam which was where we were coming from and it took some getting through.
The area has been put pretty much under lockdown. There's nobody about obviously except a very heavy police presence. Exactly what happened of
course is yet to be determined. You've obviously been reporting what the Prime Minister has been saying. But at the moment, I will just step out of
the way, so you get a clearer and better idea what took place.
That this is tram where the shooting is believed to have taken place. It was on its way to the center of Utrecht. There is another tram off to my
right, but that's not, we believe relevant as such. We believe that was just parked in the local station.
The tarpaulin, which we can now see, is we believe, according to those who were here before me, is actually shielding what is a body. But so far, we
know no further details than that.
There are helicopters constantly flying overhead, and the police presence gets ever greater by the minute.
[08:05:10]
FOSTER: How would you describe Utrecht? A student city? Very popular with tourists as well, so a sort of area where these trams would be busy
during the day?
QUEST: Well, first, you have to remember that the tram is an integral part of the transportation system in places like Utrecht and Amsterdam. Utrecht
is about 30, 35, 40 kilometers from Amsterdam. It took us the best part of just what? Thirty five to forty minutes after we got the call to come over
here. It is industrial. It is student. It does not have, if you like, the glamor of Amsterdam, but it is -- it is more than just a dormitory town
to Amsterdam, but it has its own charm, many would say.
Now what happened here and why this incident would happen here, pretty much why it would happen anywhere, but is there a specific reason why this tram
was targeted in this way on this day, no, we have no idea at this point.
As I say, there is just a sort of a police briefing going on to the side of me, which we will get more details from in just a moment.
FOSTER: We'll let you get to that. Richard, thank you very much, indeed. Kristie, we will follow updates of course, as they come into the show.
LU STOUT: Yes, a horrific outburst of violence there in Europe, security being increased at airports, as well as mosques. Police continue to give
us the updates.
Now here in Christchurch, it's past 1:00 a.m. in the morning, it's a new week here. Citizens, they are still struggling to come to terms with the
deadliest terror attack in the country's modern history. It took place just three days ago during Friday prayers.
The staggering death toll now stands at 50. Fifty others were wounded. 33 in total remain in hospitals, 31 here in Christchurch, two in Auckland.
Makeshift memorials have sprung up around the mosques and various site around the city, including the site where I am right now, the Botanic
Gardens of Christchurch.
You see flowers, hand written cards, notes, works of art, paper chains, chalk drawings with messages of hope and love. Police say that it was a
single gunman who carried out the horrific attack on two mosques on Friday. Some 250 detectives and specialists have been working on the investigation.
This is the largest staff that New Zealand Police has ever deployed.
Meanwhile, the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern says that the government has agreed quote, "In principle to toughen gun laws in the wake of the mass
shooting."
Now, CNN's Ivan Watson joins me now with the very latest. Let's bring him on. And Ivan, another day here, another day of mourning, of grief, of
determination to change gun laws and of the people in Christchurch communing and consoling the families of the victims and that has been
really remarkable to see.
IVAN WATSON, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: It truly has. And Kristie, what we're seeing is that this tiny minority in New Zealand, about
1% of the population is Muslim, which was so savagely targeted in this terrorist attack. We're seeing that they are truly being embraced from the
highest levels of government all the way down to children, ordinary people. I even saw a very drunk man stumbling from a bar just hug a Muslim man he
saw on the street late at night.
It is an embrace of a minority and a sign of the health of a democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
WATSON (voice over): A hymn for healing. Harmonies performed in Maori to honor the 50 men, women and children killed last Friday in the deadliest
terror attack in New Zealand's modern history. A declaration from New Zealanders, "This is not who we are."
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern promised details of new gun laws within 10 days and a broader investigation into the background of the alleged
attacker, 28-year-old Brendon Tarrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER, NEW ZEALAND: The purpose of this inquiry is to look at what all relevant agencies knew or could or should have known
about the individual and his activities, including his access to weapons and whether they could have been in a position to prevent the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice over): It's now known that Tarrant bought several guns at this store near Christchurch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID TIPPLE, GUN CITY OWNER: I've informed police that Gun City sold the alleged gunman four A category firearms and ammunition. Four Gun City
sales to this individual followed, police verified, online, mail order process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice over): New Zealand's top police officer saying it's believed the alleged attacker did not have help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BUSH, NEW ZEALAND POLICE COMMISSIONER: I want to definitely state that we believe that there was only one attacker responsible for this
horrendous event. There were two scenes, as you know.
[08:10:09]
BUSH: And again, I would like to state that we believe absolutely there was only one attacker responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice over): In Tarrant's native Australia, police searched a family home and his grandmother spoke of their shock.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIE FITZGERALD, SUSPECT'S GRANDMOTHER: We're all gob smacked. We don't know what to think. The media is saying he's planned it for a long time,
so he's obviously not of sound mind, I don't think.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WATSON: The authorities here, Kristie are clearly struggling with this scale of the violence and the death here because they have had to push up
their deadlines for when they hope to release the bodies of the victims to the anguished families, one. In the hospital, up the road here, they've
had to postpone scheduled surgeries as they struggle to keep at least nine people in critical care alive, many have undergone multiple surgeries. And
finally, the police, they call this the biggest investigation they have ever had in this country.
LU STOUT: And we've got to think about the victims' families because they have been waiting so long to be reunited with the remains of their loved
ones. It has been a very delicate and painstaking process to return the remains to them so they can farewell and to prepare the remains for a
Muslim burial. How is that coming along?
WATSON: Well, slower than I think that they would like. But the chief coroner has said they don't want to have any mix-ups in this process of
victim identification. The police have come out with Islamic leaders explaining why this is taking a while with the Islamic leaders then
explaining why their burial process is so important and according to tradition, you are supposed to wash and shroud the body and then bury it as
soon as possible, within 24 hours, within hours of passing and that simply isn't happening just yet.
They have teams working around the clock trying to identify all of the victims here. Again, this has been the single deadliest terror attack in
this country's history and it has never had to deal with a loss of life on this scale before due to an act of political violence.
LU STOUT: So much agony for the people of Christchurch, especially for the families of the victims. Ivan Watson, thank you so much for your
reporting. Now, we're going to focus on the gun reform issue here in New Zealand because now, the country, in the wake of that deadly attack is
facing a defining moment when it comes to gun control.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is vowing changes within the next 10 days, but in a country -- and this is a country with a strong hunting tradition,
many people here own guns, it may be easier said than done. This is the very shop in Christchurch that sold the alleged terrorist Category A
weapons. The Managing Director of the shop, it's called Gun City, said they found nothing unusual about the suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIPPLE: I informed the police that Gun City sold the alleged gunman four A Category firearms and ammunition. Four Gun City sales to this individual
followed -- police verified online mail order process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Right now, New Zealand's gun laws are considered more relaxed than most western countries outside of thes United States. While gun
owners need a license, they are not required to register their guns. They must be over 16 and pass a police background check. It is estimated that
New Zealand has about 1.2 million guns for a nation of close to five million people. Do the math, that's a lot of guns out here.
Now, joining me now is someone who argues at the gaps in New Zealand's laws are what allowed the alleged killer to obtain some of those weapons.
Philip Alpers is an associate professor at the University of Sydney School of Public Health. He is also the founder of gunpolicy.org and he joins us
now. Philip, thank you for joining us. Let's talk and dig into that issue of loopholes because the suspect, we know is an Australian national, was
able to come here to New Zealand, purchase four firearms from Gun City legally, modify the weapons and carry out this atrocious act of mass
terror. How was he able to do this?
PHILIP ALPERS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: He was able to do it because, although New Zealand has world
standard gun laws in many ways, it has large loopholes, gaps in the law, and those were built in by special interests groups who fought and kicked
and screamed every time anybody tried to change the law over a period of four inquiries, 26 years, absolutely no progress was made or very little
progress was made.
And when laws were changed, they were built deliberately with large gaps and loopholes in them at the insistence of the gun lobby for their own
personal convenience.
[08:15:10]
LU STOUT: The Prime Minister of New Zealand one day after the terror attack took place pledged that gun laws will change. On Sunday, she met
with her Cabinet. They said that they have agreed to changes in gun laws, quote, "in principle." We are expecting to hear details in the next 10
days.
What is needed to happen to make sure any gun reform is effective in the wake of what happened on Friday?
ALPERS: All of the previous inquiries have gone close or right up to the point of the Australian gun laws. They've all suggested that we should
have taken the options that were offered to us in 1996. A New Zealand Minister of the Crown was in the room when Australia decided to make those
changes. It was the Australasian Police Minister's Council and so it included the New Zealand -- representative of the New Zealand Police and
New Zealand Police Minister, but New Zealand chose not to join that club, not to join the eight Australian jurisdictions who all decided to
completely ban the semi-automatic long guns, center fire long guns, that is, shotguns and rifles and to destroy them.
So Australia went ahead and destroyed 700,000 guns. In the end, they destroyed a million guns here in Australia. That's the equivalent of
destroying 19 million guns in the United States. It was about 30% of the national stock of firearms. But New Zealand stepped out of that agreement,
didn't feel it was necessary and said that -- the Minister actually said that the New Zealand laws were stringent enough to prevent another mass
shooting.
Unfortunately, those loopholes and that Minister were -- that Minister was very much mistaken. Those loopholes are directly responsible for what
happened in Christchurch.
LU STOUT: Got it. In regards to gun reform, Australia can serve as a model to New Zealand. Does New Zealand have the opportunity right now to
serve as a model for the world? Because instead of just offering thoughts and prayers, the Prime Minister of New Zealand has offered action. She has
pledged action as she is taking action on gun reform. Could what happens here next have ripple effects in other governments around the world?
ALPERS: Perhaps. I heard the announcement today and as a New Zealander myself, I was very proud to hear the steeliness in the voice of our Prime
Minister, Jacinda Ardern, and she sounds absolutely determined to do something about this. Her party, her Cabinet, her caucus are all behind
her and she has the power to do it.
She could do it very, very quickly because of the unicameral system in New Zealand. And she could easily bring New Zealand up to the same level of
gun control as Australia. Whether she is going to be able to do that or not is very much in the air.
Ten days is a long time. We don't know what the proposals are. They deliberately haven't been shared with the public. They could be a
mishmash. They could be worse than nothing. And we just -- and they could be -- they could surprise everybody and be extraordinary. We don't know.
LU STOUT: Yes, that's right, we need to dig into the details when they come out within the next 10 days. Philip Alpers of gunpolicy.org, thank
you so much, sir, for joining me and take care.
Now, the New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has made a big impact. You heard Philip just say that he was impressed by her steeliness in the
way she was describing action on gun reform. She has only served a short time as Prime Minister of New Zealand and now, she is trying to offer both
strength and comfort to her nation in her toughest challenge yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LU STOUT (voice over): Jacinda Ardern burst onto the international political scene in 2017 becoming New Zealand's youngest Prime Minister in
150 years. She emerged as a symbol for progressive politics, pushing the envelope time and again.
Thirty seven at the time, she became only the second leader in the world to give birth while in office.
Ardern now faces her toughest challenge -- the worst massacre in the island nation's modern history. At least 50 people killed and 50 wounded in a
terror attack at two different mosques in Christchurch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: What I can say is that it is clear that this is one of New Zealand's darkest days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT (voice over): On the day of the attack, Ardern was quick to tell the country that New Zealand will never become the center for harboring
hatred.
[08:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: For those of you who are watching at home tonight and questioning how this could have happened here. We, New Zealand, we were not a target
because we are a safe harbor for those who hate. We were not chosen for this act of violence because we condone racism, because we are an enclave
for extremism. We were chosen for the very facts that we are none of these things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT (voice over): She made the promise to change the nation's gun laws in the aftermath of this horrific attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change. There have been attempts to change our laws in 2005, 2012 and after an
inquiry in 2017. Now is the time for change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT (voice over): After speaking to the nation, the Prime Minister joined mourners in Wellington to console families in grief. She later laid
a wreath at a mosque. Ardern flew to Christchurch on Saturday to meet with the victims, families and Muslim leaders, looking sorrowful wearing a black
dress and black head scarf out of respect, Ardern showed full support to the Muslim community in Christchurch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: This is not New Zealand. They are only part of the incident and actions that we have seen over the past 24 to 36 hours that is New Zealand.
This is the support that you are seeing now, but nothing that led up to it is who we are or is who this city is.
This act of terror was brought to our shores and rained down upon us here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT (voice over): While perhaps this nightmare will never be over for dozens of families who lost loved ones, Prime Minister Ardern's promise to
make changes to gun laws is perhaps one thing that would give a mourning nation some degree of hope.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LU STOUT: Now, you're watching "News Stream" coming to you live from Christchurch. It's just over 1:00 a.m. in the morning here. We will have
the latest from the shooting in Utrecht in the Netherlands coming up. Our coverage of the terror attack here in New Zealand continues as well.
In fact, just ahead, what are social media companies doing and what more should they do to stop the spread of violence and hate?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
LU STOUT: Hello, I'm Kristie Lu Stout on Christchurch, New Zealand.
FOSTER: Hello, I'm Max Foster in London. We want to get you the very latest now in the mass shooting in Netherlands. A suspect opened fire
inside a tram wounding seven people and possibly killing one. Police are still trying to locate the suspect. Michael Darmanin is a Managing
Director at Utrecht Central newspaper. He lives not far from where the shooting happened, joining us via Skype as well.
When was the first you became aware of this?
[15:25:08]
MICHAEL DARMANIN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, UTRECHT CENTRAL NEWSPAPER (via Skype): Thanks for having me on, Mr. Foster. Yes, I was just driving back home,
you know, away from my girlfriend's house. My home is not so far away from the scene indeed.
The first thing I noticed, yes, one of the roads were blocked off so I had to take another route to get home. The next thing I knew, I was stuck at a
traffic light near my home and one ambulance wanted to pass us, all the cars, so we let them through. I thought, okay, so there must be like some
kind of car accident somewhere not so far away.
Next thing I knew, there were three or four ambulances and I thought, okay, so this must be something more serious. I suspected some kind of more
serious scene. I went home to do my research, like, okay, what's this about and apparently, there was at least one person lost in the tram, at
the singlet who stood up in the tram or probably entered the tram, I am not sure, did a lot of shooting in there. There's been indeed a few wounded.
I am not sure about any fatalities at this moment. Yes, it's pretty shocking upsetting scene.
FOSTER: Okay, Michael, thank you for joining us in that area around Utrecht, currently. Kristie, the highest level of threat because the
suspect is on the run. So a horrible time for everyone living in that area.
LU STOUT: Yes, horrible time, very situation, we appreciate all of the updates, Max. Now, here in Christchurch, the 28-year-old suspect in the
terror attack here that took place on Friday says he does not want a lawyer. He wants to represent himself in court in April. That's according
to the attorney temporarily assigned to him.
Over the weekend, police raided the homes of the suspect's sister and his mother. Now, police reportedly seized computer files, photos and
communications between the suspect and his family. His grandmother says the family is shocked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FITZGERALD: It's only since he traveled overseas I think that that boy has changed completely from the boy we knew. It's just so much for everything
take in that somebody in our family would do anything like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: The Prime Minister of New Zealand is urging all social media companies to take responsibility for how their platforms are being used to
spread messages of hate. A part of Friday's terror attack at two mosques was livestreamed on Facebook. It spread quickly on Facebook, Twitter and
elsewhere and other platforms as well.
Facebook says it removed 1.5 million videos of the attack in the first 24 hours, but the Prime Minister says tech companies, they need to do better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: We have certainly raised our areas of concern around the spreading of messages and videos and so on and we will continue to do so.
They have sent their condolences for New Zealand. They have indicated that they are working very proactively on the sharing of videos and content in
the aftermath. They have acknowledged some of the systems that they have already around what they deem hate speech. My view is there is more that
can and should be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: So what more should social media firms be doing to counter radicalization? Our politics and tech reporter Donie O'Sullivan joins us
from New York. Donie, thank you for joining us. The metrics are astounding. Facebook says that it took down 1.5 million copies of the live
stream of the video of the attack. It also said that it prevented 1.2 million reposts of it. Why would so many people want to repost this
hateful and graphic video?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, POLITICS AND TECHNOLOGY REPORTER, CNN: Yes, I mean, the numbers truly are staggering and I think it points to why terrorists and
suspects like this turn to social media platforms. The suspect in last week's attack streamed live on Facebook for about 17 minutes. And so it
really shows you once something is up online especially when the platforms don't catch it, in this case, Facebook didn't catch it until New Zealand
police told them about it that once it's up online, it's there forever.
1.5 million copies of this were uploaded to Facebook. The company said it caught all but 300,000 of those before they actually got posted to the
platform. But they haven't told us how many people watched or interacted with all those copies of the video.
So I think this just really points to the power of these platforms and the importance that they get it right, that they catch these things as they're
happening.
LU STOUT: Yes, they have to get it right. Jacinda Arden earlier on Sunday said that social media companies, there is a lot more work that needs to be
done here for social responsibility.
[08:30:04]
LU STOUT: And what I don't understand, Donie, is these companies like Facebook, they've got the money, they've got the technology, they have the
army of human moderators and yet this still happens. Why?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, I mean, we've heard from Zuckerberg and we've heard from, you know, Facebook executives over the past year or two that they've
supposedly hired 30,000 human moderators and are investing millions of dollars into artificial intelligence to catch stuff like this. Obviously,
it didn't seem to work this week.
A lot of folks are pointing to how the platforms you know, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter came together to tackle the trash of ISIS, the
radicalization of people through their social media platforms when it came to ISIS and that the platforms were generally, after a slow start praised
for their work on this because they, you know, had a sort of no tolerance policy. As soon as somebody was praising ISIS, they got taken down and
permanently banned from the platform.
A lot of experts are now saying, "Well, why can't they do that with white supremacy? Why can't they sort of tackle white supremacy, the way they
tackled ISIS?" The problem, of course with this is that there's a lot more dog whistles involved. It's a little bit more nuanced and sometimes, you
have actually elected representatives who are sort of engaging in these dog whistles.
So it's a greater challenge than ISIS, but something that's worth considering.
LU STOUT: Yes, what happened here in Christchurch on Friday has generated this huge global debate about hate speech, about social media
responsibility, and yet it is Monday morning here in Christchurch, and we have get to hear from the CEO of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg to make a public
statement about what happened with that live stream. Donie O'Sullivan. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate your reporting. Take care.
You're watching "News Stream" and still to come, we're going to have more on the breaking news coming out of the Netherlands, and also, we're going
to be speaking with one Muslim New Zealander who says growing up, he experiences flashes of bigotry and racism, but he never thought that hate
would turn deadly. His story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
LU STOUT: Welcome back to this special edition of "News Stream." I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch.
FOSTER: I am Max Foster in London wanting to get you the latest on the mass shooting in the Netherlands, a suspect opening fire inside a tram,
wounding several people and possibly killing one.
Police are still trying to locate the suspect. Richard Quest is live in Utrecht and that's the tram, right?
QUEST: Yes, that is the tram. I've just been talking to one of the police spokesman here who's been describing what it is that happened.
[08:35:02]
QUEST: It's believed that right about 10:45 this morning, local time that a shooter -- now, they're talking about a shooter, but they're also
suggesting that there may have been one or two. They don't know whether there's more than one, but opened fire on the tram.
We don't know -- they won't confirm casualties, although the people here say that behind the tarpaulin, there is a person who has been fatally
wounded in this. Similarly, about nine minutes or so, 10 minutes away from where I, am there is an area in Utrecht that is now under heavy police
presence as they believe.
But again, Max, I asked the police spokesman whether or not they were describing it as terrorism or terrorists that he says not yet, he said, but
there is some confusion about that because others are. The Dutch Prime Minister, for instance, has said that he's certainly very concerned about
what's been happening and the police in the local area in Utrecht has gone to level five, which is critical.
FOSTER: And they are saying they are searching for the shooter with all possible means. So what sort of atmospheres -- what sort of atmosphere is
there in Utrecht right now?
QUEST: Where we are, it's a very strange atmosphere because one can imagine the amount of activity by the authorities as they search and one
can imagine the concern of local residents as they know that this is the lockdown that's underway in this part. But of course here itself, it is
just very quiet. Nothing is moving. There is a petrol station over there that is closed.
Obviously, there's nobody coming out of any of the offices or the houses here because it is under lockdown, and some of the places have been
evacuated. So that -- it's sort of quite literally, the scene of the crime, but the activity is now elsewhere as they attempt to catch the
person or persons who did it.
It is important to say this, they're not sure whether it's one or more than that. They do keep saying that to us. But we have no evidence to believe
that it is multiple shooters.
FOSTER: We're seeing a new video, Richard, of the police search in Utrecht, you can't see it. But the whole area, it's been locked down with
lots of police making their way around, looking for this shooter, a frightening situation.
We also understand, Richard, that surveillance has been increased at airports across the country, not necessarily more personnel, but they're
looking at, you know, who is moving through the airports more than they would usually. I mean, how would you interpret that kind of increase in
security?
QUEST: Oh, well, that makes perfect sense. Think about where we are. Think about -- and apologies if it's very noisy, the wind and the rain is
starting to get up. You know, Amsterdam, Utrecht, the Netherlands crossroads, the reports obviously just up the road in Rotterdam where
somebody could flee from the train stations, there are connections from here to Rotterdam, light railways, obviously network railways coming
through here.
So the Netherlands is very much a crossroads in this northern part of Europe or western part of Europe. And to that extent, they will be very
concerned that either by road, rail or sea that it would be possible for the person to flee and escape, which is why they're putting so much effort
into ensuring a lockdown of the area and that only increases to some extent, the fear and the concern that naturally is from the people who are
living around here.
FOSTER: So much concern currently off the back of New Zealand and other related incidents over the weekend. What sort of conversations are people
having there today? They must be reading into all sorts of scenarios.
QUEST: Right. You have to put this into the context of the history of the sort of incidents. There have been numerous of these sort of incidents in
the past, most famously when one of the Dutch politicians was murdered in an anti-Muslim attack or revenge attack, and you have to put it into that
wider context of what happened, this extremely tolerant society that is now experiencing various issues related to immigration, but where they are
constantly reminding everybody that there is this level of tolerance within the country.
Now there's a high immigration population that has felt the effects in the past of racism and has been attacked and it's gone both ways to some extent
in terms of the accusations, but now with what's happened in New Zealand and what's happened elsewhere, there is a new urgency ...
[08:40:10]
QUEST: ... if you're like from the authorities to ensure the peace and stability which is the hallmark of the Netherlands is maintained, which is
why this particular incident will be seen as so serious and will be causing such concern.
FOSTER: Okay, Richard in Utrecht. Back with you as you have more updates, so Kristie, a frightening situation for the people of Utrecht, but also you
know, checks being stepped up across the country right now until that suspect is located.
LU STOUT: Yes, Max, and a lot of concern here in New Zealand about what has happened there in Utrecht. Is this a copycat attack at this moment?
We don't know, but we are working on getting concrete details and reporting and of course the investigation. Max, thank you.
New Zealand has been taking a stand against hate in the wake of the massacre, the anti-Muslim massacre that took place on Friday believed to
have been inspired by anti-Muslim anti-immigrant patriot.
I've been speaking with people in Christchurch who are paying their respects to the lives lost in this terror attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALIMA STEWART, UNCLE DIED IN THE ATTACK: We would like to see that this won't happen again in New Zealand to any one of us. And that's what we are
asking Prime Minister to make sure that this won't happen and take some strong action.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be strong, and that's one of the messages here and what a lovely message to send out to all our family, families who have lost
a family member.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First song that I played was the New Zealand National Anthem. And the reason why we chose to sing that song is because it is a
song that unites all of us. There are different people from different cultures, different ethnicities, different creeds, different backgrounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Mohamed Hassan is a journalist from TRT World who is also a local New Zealander joins us now and Mohammad, thank you so much for
joining us and my sympathies to you, everyone in the community here about what happened on Friday, an utterly horrific outburst of violence.
You are New Zealander. You are a member of a very small community here of Muslims in New Zealand. How have you been processing the hate and what
happened since then?
MOHAMED HASSAN, JOURNALIST, TRT WORLD: Well, to be honest, Kristie, I was actually not even here when the event happened. I was over in Turkey and
for the first few hours, it was difficult to even process that this was something that happened and over the weekend, and making my way here and
coming today and spending time with both relatives that have lost family members, but also the volunteers that have come down to help out, a lot of
it is still very difficult to understand.
We still have a lot of difficulty grasping the enormity of what happened on Friday afternoon.
LU STOUT: Yes, Islamophobia, xenophobia -- this is stuff you've encountered before growing up in New Zealand, but the type of white
nationalist hatred that can fester and transform into terrorism, did that ever cross your mind that that would happen here?
HASSAN: I mean, I would be lying to you if I say that it didn't cross my mind. And I think most people within the Muslim community here, but in
Muslim communities across the world would say that this is something that was -- while not surprising, of course, devastatingly shocking at the scale
and the spectacle of what happened on Friday.
A lot of us have had to face a lot of racism and a lot of xenophobia, but also we've been warning about the rise of far right rhetoric, by the rise
of white nationalist rhetoric, about the alt-right and a lot of this kind of stuff that's been festering on online communities but we've also been
seeing it and a lot of the way politics has been changing specifically across Europe and parts of the U.S. as well, especially in Australia, just
over the ditch.
We've kind of been seeing this coming, although we never expected it to hit the way that it did. And certainly not here, New Zealand.
LU STOUT: How do you respond to casual Islamophobia and casual xenophobia? Because this is important, because casual expressions of this could happen
in person or online, and it can take root and to turn potentially into terrorists. How do you respond to it?
HASSAN: I mean, I think there is a difference between casual racism and/or casual Islamophobia, which nearly every single Muslim would say they've
experienced at some point in time that whether that's job discrimination, whether that's somebody saying and yelling a word at you on the streets,
but there are also manifestations of that that turned violent.
And so we've had women here in our community wearing the hijab who've been attacked on buses, who've been yelled at, who had -- certainly in
Australia, there's been several cases of women having their hijabs pulled off or attacked physically in the streets. And this is a scale and it's a
slippery slope. And what happens when a society doesn't address these problems, doesn't address the root causes of this kind of hatred is
unfortunately what we saw on Friday.
[08:45:01]
LU STOUT: Is what happened here a wakeup call for the world? Now the suspect, a white man, Australian, 28 years old, no criminal prior record at
all. And yet he was very active online and these hate groups and 8chan and elsewhere, publishing this multi-hundred page manifesto and all of that, is
this a wakeup call that we need to dig around and see these areas or dark corners to be able to find out where these threats are?
HASSAN: Absolutely. And I would say it's a wakeup call that has come far too late. Over the last two years, we've seen the way this kind of online
activity has manifested itself on the ground.
We saw the Charlottesville marches where, you know, literal neo-Nazis were carrying torches and talking about white supremacy. These are groups that
originated online. And we're seeing the same trends happening all across the world where groups come together and they form right wing anti-
immigrant, anti-Muslim rallies, and then manifest that onto the streets.
We saw back in 2011 the Anders Breivik attack which echoes very similarly with what happened on Friday, a white male attacker with anti-immigrant
sentiments who publishes a manifesto online and claims to be some sort of representative for a large group of people and carries out this senseless
mass murder on a large group.
If we hadn't woken up by now, what happened on Friday should certainly be the wakeup call that all of us need.
LU STOUT: Absolutely, and it was not just only a sickening mass murder, it was an act of terror, it was an act of hate that targeted Muslims as they
were kneeling during Friday prayer, absolutely atrocious. Mohamed Hassan, thank you so much for joining me and please take care.
HASSAN: Thank you.
LU STOUT: Now, you're watching "News Stream" and we'll be back with more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
FOSTER: Welcome back to this special edition of "News Stream" and I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Christchurch.
FOSTER: I am Max Foster in London and getting you more on the mass shooting in the Netherlands, a suspect opening fire inside a tram wounding
several people possibly killing one. Police is still trying to locate the suspect. Richard Quest is live in Utrecht -- Richard.
QUEST: Yes, Max. In the last few moments, excuse me, I'm just going to stand away, you can see the tram that 10:45, a shooter opened fire on the
passengers inside. We believe, although the police haven't confirmed that one person has been killed and it might be in between the two trains.
Just a short moment ago, we were seeing pictures -- sorry, we were seeing various police experts in full hazmat suits walking around trying to
determine exactly what the situation is. Other than that, there is an eerie quiet in this particular area. It's as if sort of whatever has --
was going to happen has happened. We believe that the focus of attention now is just a couple of miles away where a district house has been
searched, sorry, has been surrounded as we're waiting for further information about it.
Obviously, helicopters police activity, but it does appear that anybody who was injured or anybody involved that's been on the tram has since left.
FOSTER: Okay, Richard, thank you very much indeed, so the threat level at its highest, Kristie, also the suspects still on the run, frightening
situation. One person may have died in this attack. We'll be back in just a moment.
[08:50:05]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
FOSTER: We want to get you an update on the breaking news. There now to the central Netherlands, a manhunt is underway there after a gunman open
fire inside a tram in the city of Utrecht. Police say several people have been injured and one person may have died.
Dutch counterterrorism has raised the threat level to critical. Securities being stepped up around mosques and stations in nearby Rotterdam, and the
Dutch Military Police have boosted security measures at airports, a frightening situation, but we're going to bring your updates when we have
them. For now, back to Kristie.
LU STOUT: All right, a 25-year-old woman is one of five Indian nationals confirmed killed in Friday's terror attack in Christchurch. Her dream was
to live and work in New Zealand with her husband and help support family back home. CNN's Alexandra Field has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CORRESPONDENT, CNN (voice over): They were newlyweds from India who decided to call New Zealand home, Ansi Alibava and Abdul Nazer.
It was her dream so he shared it with her until it was cut short.
"No one would expect something like this would happen here," he says. On Friday at Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch, Ansi sat with the women, Abdul
was with the men.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL NAZER, WIFE DIED IN THE ATTACK: Then one person broken the glass, then I ran away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FIELD (voice over): When the gunfire stopped, he says, "She was dead. I saw her lying on the road." Ansi had run from the mosque in her socks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAZER (Through a translator): She loves to travel. Reading and watching English movies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FIELD (voice over): A few weeks ago, Ansi finished her courses here at Lincoln University, where a vigil was held for those killed in Friday's
attack with a Masters in Agricultural Business Management, she hoped to get a good job so they could support they're struggling families in India.
Abdul stocked shelves. Ansi worked part time while completing her degree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TALI AO, CLASSMATE OF SHOOTING VICTIM: She was my best friend. She was a very lively person and she really loves her husband and her husband really
loves her. It was an arranged marriage. So I can see them rediscovering each other and they really like each other. Yes, I can see the love that
they have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FIELD (voice over): The 25 year old is one of at least five Indian nationals killed in New Zealand's largest mass shooting. Abdul is staying
with friends while he waits to be able to take her body back to India.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RENJU GEORGE, FRIEND OF SHOOTING VICTIM: They used to live in my house when they first came to New Zealand so he didn't want to sleep in the room
where they were sleeping before. He keep crying in the night. He keep waking up every two or three minutes and just looking for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:55:06]
FIELD (voice over): On top of his grief, Abdul has heavy burdens. Ansi took out tens of thousands of dollars in loans to fund her education. A
Give A Little Page online now aims to help him pay down her debt. It was her student visa that allowed them to come to New Zealand. But he hopes to
be able to stay where he says their memories are to live the life they planned, to hold on to the dreams they shared. Alexandra Field, CNN,
Christchurch.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LU STOUT: And I would like to end the broadcast with just a thought about the victims. There are 50 people dead as a result of this horrific terror
attack, 31 people in the hospital in Christchurch including a four-year-old girl fighting for her life right now.
This is a terror attack that has deeply shaken the community here in Christchurch and yet, they have chosen to respond to terror, not with fear
or with anger but with outpourings of love and affection as you see with these makeshift memorials and vigils that appear across the city including
here the Botanic Gardens with messages like, "We are one." "They are us." Or a red banner over there saying that, "We are together united with our
Muslim brothers and sisters." "Kia kaha," a Maori saying for "be strong." This is how New Zealand is choosing to respond to terror.
I am Kristie Lu Stout. You're watching "News Stream." More CNN after the break.
[09:00:00]
END