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Trump Announces FBI and Justice Department to Probe Jussie Smollett; White House Official Confirms No Fresh Proposal to Replace Obamacare; New Quinnipiac Poll has Biden Leading the Democratic Pack; Senator Amy Klobuchar Announces "Trillion-Dollar" Infrastructure Plan; Jerry Nadler: Barr Won't Commit to Releasing Full Mueller Report; U.S. 4th Quarter GDP in Line with Expectations; Adam Schiff Wants Mueller to Testify Before Congress. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 28, 2019 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] BERMAN: We could have an exclusive interview with the Powerball winner Jim Sensenbrenner tomorrow here on NEW DAY.

CAMEROTA: I like this. Fact-free.

OK, meanwhile, "NEWSROOM" with Jim Sciutto is going to start right now.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A good Thursday morning to you. It is opening day for baseball. Poppy has the week off.

This morning President Trump announcing the FBI and the Justice Department will review the prosecutor's decision to drop all 16 charges against the actor Jussie Smollett. He's calling the situation outrageous and embarrassing.

The "Empire" actor was accused of staging an assault on himself. And Chicago's top officials still maintain that those charges, those allegations were a hoax. Adding to the confusion about this entire case, the state attorney for Cook County, Kim Foxx, who recused herself, said that she believes her office could have proven that Smollett was guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM FOXX, COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: The court has not found him guilty. But based on the facts and the evidence that was presented in the charging decision made by this office, this office believe that they could prove him guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN correspondent Ryan Young is following all these new developments. And it has -- it's confusing for me, it has to be confusing for folks at home. Everybody involved, the prosecutors, the cops, et cetera, say well, they believe he's guilty and yet the charges were dropped.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And that's the big story here because everybody seems sort of unsatisfied with the way this ended. And really you're seeing everyone sort of take out their frustrations very publicly. The only thing that didn't happen publicly in this case is why the charges were dropped.

That sort of happened in secret. We were told about that emergency hearing on Tuesday. We all rushed down to court and then Jussie Smollett gave that statement which didn't seem to satisfy many people in the public in terms of how we arrived to the situation.

Jim, first of all, a lot of this has developed during your hour of the show. So let's take people back to January. This is when we found out that according to a police report that Jussie Smollett said he was walking back from a Subway when he was attacked by two men. He said that they put a noose around his neck, that they punched him, they screamed racial and homophobic slurs at him and then they also said, this is MAGA country, and that sort of made everybody sort of paid more attention to this case.

Twelve detectives worked around the clock on this to try to figure out exactly what happened. And then almost a month later, so many shoes started to drop here. We found that detectives had circled two men who they thought were involved in this case. They started giving police information after they were sweated in a box for about 47 hours. Detectives were talking to them. They started telling police all the information that they needed to hear in terms of they believed that Jussie Smollett set this whole thing up.

They went before a grand jury. That grand jury helped them get to that 16-count indictment. And then of course there was the push back, back and forth between Jussie Smollett and the police department because Jussie Smollett and his team actually said in court they wanted cameras there so everyone could see that he's innocent. And then they haven't even stopped at this point. Just about a half hour ago one of his attorneys talked about this case and what's going on so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TINA GLANDIAN, JUSSIE SMOLLETT'S ATTORNEY: We have nothing to be concerned about because there was nothing on our end to request this, to do anything improper. And to my knowledge nothing improper was done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So this is what we do know, Jim. From the very beginning, though, we didn't believe that Jussie Smollett would go to jail. You're talking about a first-time offender. You're talking about someone who's been upstanding in the community. A lot of people here believed in Jussie Smollett. But the police department for its part always felt like it had the information and a strong case.

And we started hearing yesterday from sources that the FBI could take a look at this. And we weren't at the point where we could get to reporting it. And now you have Trump sort of confirming it for all of us. Let's not also forget that about a month before all this happened

there was a letter sent to the "Empire" set. They're still in investigating that portion of this as well. So this might not all go away and shoes continue to drop.

One other thing here, the case was sealed after the charges were dropped. So many people paying attention to that portion of it. We do know today at 9:30 there's going to be a court case. We could get some more information a little later on, Jim. Got to hold on for this one.

SCIUTTO: Ryan Young, thank you for following this case. We'll bring -- let's bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

So, Joey, you'll sometimes see the feds get involved.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

SCIUTTO: In a crime where there aren't charges locally, you know, more serious crimes like a cop shooting or something, and you get into, like, civil rights violators or something like that. So how unusual would it be for the feds to get involved in a case like this?

JACKSON: Very. So everything about this is unusual. So from a federal involvement perspective, the federal government certainly has a role as it relates. You heard Ryan Young speaking about apparent letter that Jussie Smollett has alleged to have sent to himself. Now that's federal because you put it into the stream of interstate commerce, you it into the mail. That's where the federal role is.

Now in terms of the sealing of this, I think if anybody is going to get it, the media may not, pursuant to the hearing they're having, I think the federal government will in their investigation.

[09:05:05] Now that's where their role is. In terms of investigating the legitimacy or propriety of how this went down on the local charges, I don't see a role. The state is -- you know, look. This is separation of powers. The federal government does what it does. States do what they do.

Let's talk about, for a minute, Jim, if we could, what the state did here. I think a lot of people are upset because of the lack of transparency. If you want to cut a deal with Jussie Smollett because you believe he's a first-time offender, he's a person who's done significant things for the community, you think this is appropriate disposition, then do that, by all means do it. but don't disguise it in the manner in which you did and, you know, really suggesting and otherwise dismissing the charges.

Just come out and say, look, we believe that this disposition is appropriate. He's a first-time, you know, offender, so to speak. We've resolved it. We're going to forfeit his bail. We're going to have him do community service. And we feel that based upon his past community involvement it's good.

SCIUTTO: And that kind of thing happens all the time.

JACKSON: It does.

SCIUTTO: Right? The local prosecutors make judgments and say listen, it's a crime, we believe it's a crime. But when you look at the broader response to crimes like this often folks don't go to jail for it, right?

JACKSON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: They do that across the board.

JACKSON: Yes. But there's one caveat here and I'll say it this way. What -- you normally do. We being defense attorneys, we march in prior to indictment. Before a case gets indicted, once the case gets indicted it's in a world of its own. You want a deal, you come in before that, we can speak about diversion, we can speak about alternative sentencing, and we can speak about anything.

Once you go into the grand jury you marshal the police, you marshal the witnesses. Generally it's a done deal. Not to suggest that the case is not otherwise resolved but it generally is not resolved in the manner in which it was resolved here. And that's the problem.

SCIUTTO: OK. So feds get involved now. They can only look at the letter because it involved using the mail system.

JACKSON: Right.

SCIUTTO: Charges likely there. How often is something like that charged?

JACKSON: I mean, certainly, you know, look, the federal government has a role here as it relates to that. And certainly they could pursue independent of what the state does. Any charges related to using the mail for fraudulent means or fraudulent purposes. That's completely within their jurisdiction. If they want to do that, that's their prerogative. But again to the investigating the internal doings and nuances of the office, it becomes a problem.

I think that there could have been and should have been more transparency. And then to suggest that well, there's 40,000 felony so we want to resolve it in that way. I agree. But if there are 40,000 felonies, why do you take this felony to the grand jury to begin with? Work it out in the beginning, tell the public this is what we believe to be appropriate disposition. Don't be cryptic about it and don't have to be pushed about it to finally say we think we could have proved the case.

SCIUTTO: OK.

JACKSON: But we feel we should have resolved it that way.

SCIUTTO: So in the midst of this, you have these brothers who are Smollett's alleged accomplices here.

JACKSON: Right.

SCIUTTO: They haven't spoken to the public yet.

JACKSON: Right.

SCIUTTO: They may very well speak to the public, tell their side of the story. I mean, you're looking at very embarrassing circumstances for the prosecutors there because this is not going to go away.

JACKSON: I think it will not. And look, they already testified apparently in front of the grand jury. They've told their story in front of the grand jury, they being the two brothers you just referenced. And they having told that story certainly free to be interviewed about what the specifics and dynamics of what they had to say and what their involvement was, what his role, Jussie Smollett's role was, what they actually did, how they conjured up the story. So we'll -- I do believe -- be hearing from them moving forward.

SCIUTTO: All right. Joey Jackson, I know you'll stay on top of it. Always good to have you on.

JACKSON: Thanks. Pleasure.

SCIUTTO: To the White House now where we now know the president overruled some of his own cabinet secretaries in deciding to push for the total elimination of Obamacare and did so with no alternative on hand. Aides say they expect to send a, quote, "fresh healthcare plan" to Congress sometime this year.

But what will that look like? CNN's Boris Sanchez joins me now with that.

Boris, it seems extremely unlikely, particularly with the divided Congress that they could pass a healthcare overhaul particularly in an election year. Does the president have a plan here? Are you hearing from the White House, the broad outlines of what their proposal to replace Obamacare would be?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Not yet, Jim. In fact, Marc Short, the chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, essentially told CNN the White House would be coming up with a plan that they hoped to get to Congress within the next year. But inside the White House sources say that there really is no plan. It's sort of being figured out as we speak.

It is surprising that the president would make this a priority and some Republican members of the House have privately expressed surprise to CNN that the president would try to elevate this considering as you said the Democratic majority in the House would likely torpedo any effort to repeal and replace Obamacare. After all, as you know, that's a big part of the reason they won in the midterm elections last year.

Still the president is fixated on this. You'll recall he was bashing Senator John McCain just last week for his vote against the slim repeal of Obamacare. So it's something he's still very much focused on. It's a campaign promise that this administration has now failed on twice. And so the president wants to focus on it going into 2020. And even if it fails yet again, he could go back to his supporters and effectively say, look, we battled on this and Democrats have blocked us.

[09:10:06] Still, details on what would be different in a plan this time around are to be figured out -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, that's a position, Trump argument, is it not, to say we battled on it, Democrats stood in the way. He said that for the wall, for this question how voters respond.

Boris Sanchez --

SANCHEZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: At the White House, thanks very much.

I want to bring in Jackie Alemany. She's anchor of "The Washington Post's" "Power Up."

Jackie, good to have you on this morning. The president has now repeatedly said the push to outlaw Obamacare will lead to Republicans becoming, in his words, the party of healthcare. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to be the party of great healthcare. And the Democrats have let you down. They've really let you down. The Republican Party will soon be known as the party of healthcare.

They're going to have great healthcare. The Republican Party will be the party of great healthcare. We're going to have preexisting conditions absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Does the party, does the president have any plan to back up the president's claim?

JACKIE ALEMANY, ANCHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST'S "POWER UP": They certainly have plans. You know, wishful thinking, at least. But at the moment we haven't heard of any actual legitimate proposals. You know, we've seen with this president time and time again when it comes to appealing to a sense of trying to fulfill campaign promises that always wins out over other advisers, you know, advocating otherwise.

So you have the president go up on the Hill. And he is right in saying that healthcare is going to be a big priority for voters in 2020. It's something that pushed Democrats over the finish line in the midterms. However, most lawmakers, Senator Brown, for example, I talked with him yesterday, said that the caucus was completely surprised that the White House is bringing this issue to the forefront. So the White House is saying that they now plan to bring a plan forward over the next year. But those details remain largely absent.

You know, that's not to say that there aren't senators who are excited about the opportunity to try to put a plan forward. But there is a credibility problem that Republicans only stand for repeal and not replace at the moment.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. You mentioned how this issue of healthcare worked for Democrats in 2018. I mean, the numbers, more than 40 percent of voters said healthcare was the top issue for them. And polls show -- if we could put this up on the screen -- that among those voters, 75 percent back Democrats. Just 23 percent for Republicans of those who listed healthcare as their number one issue.

Do Republicans really want to make healthcare in a political sense a defining issue for 2020? Because it was a losing issue for them in 2018.

ALEMANY: That's exactly right. And that is something that they're going to grapple with. And I think, you know, the reality right now is the parts of Obamacare that are left which are protections for preexisting conditions. No caps on coverage. And allowing adults under the age of 26 to get coverage on their parents' plan. Those are the most popular parts of Obamacare and those are the parts that Democrats are defending.

And so when you have Republicans unable to say as they -- as many of them were during the 2018 midterms that they can't ensure protections for preexisting conditions. That's not a popular stance. You know, Joni Ernst actually admitted in a luncheon a few weeks ago that the reason why the two Republican incumbents were unseated by two young Democrats was because they -- those Democrats hammered away on preexisting conditions that they were going to protect them.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALEMANY: And it's especially popular amongst female voters which the president already struggles with.

SCIUTTO: Understood. It's going to be an interesting fight. And that fight even inside the Republican Party, it seems.

Jackie Alemany, thanks very much.

ALEMANY: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: A new poll but not a new face. Biden, the top choice with Democrats, despite a slew of fresh 2020 candidates. Does it all come down to who voters think can take on and beat President Trump? Plus, top House Democrat Jerry Nadler says Attorney General William Barr will not commit to releasing the full Mueller report. Is this fight about to get uglier? Where will it lead?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00] JIM SCIUTTO, HOST, NEWSROOM: Even before officially throwing his hat into the ring, former Vice President Joe Biden is already out in front in the 2020 Democratic race. A Quinnipiac poll released just hours ago shows Biden now with a 10-point lead there, Bernie Sanders in second.

Joining me now to discuss these numbers, all of the latest of the 2020 race is fast approaching. CNN senior political writer and analyst Harry Enten and CNN political reporter Rebecca Buck. Rebecca, if I could begin with you, he's still kind of sitting on the ramparts of the castle as hamlet here, Joe Biden. But his advisors seem to be saying he's going to get in and soon. What's our latest reporting? How soon and is that -- is that a 100 percent?

REBECCA BUCK, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Jim. Our latest reporting, mostly from our great colleagues Jeff Cellini(ph) and Alex Steins(ph) is that the hamlet act is really sort of over for Joe Biden. And he's pretty well decided that he is going to jump into this race.

And so the question now is just of timing and how to do that roll out. For Joe Biden, there's a lot of pressure when it comes to the roll out because expectations are so high about his candidacy as the polling reflects, he's a frontrunner to start this race.

And so he needs to come out with a bang and what his team is looking at is lining up endorsements for their launch, raising a bunch of money from the very beginning, basically showing that they are a show of strength to show that they are really the frontrunner in this race.

And so in terms of timing, we're looking at sometime in April, maybe mid to late April, it's the latest estimates we're getting from our reporting. Some Democrats wonder is that too late? That's sort of an unanswered question, but the big question for Joe Biden, can he make a strong first impression to show that he really is in the driver seat in this race.

[09:20:00] SCIUTTO: OK, Harry Enten, let's look at the numbers again, you have another poll that shows Biden well ahead of the pack there, 29 percent, I think 19 for Bernie Sanders, and then all these other new faces and including Kamala Harris who had a great start to her campaign well behind. How much of this is straight up name recognition?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER & ANALYST: I mean, some of it, certainly, yes, right? But we should also point out that Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, especially Joe Biden are well liked by Democratic voters, right? You could have all the name ID in the world, but if you're not well liked, then forget it, it doesn't matter.

So I think, you know, it ultimately comes down to, is the opening day for Joe Biden the best day of his campaign or is he able to offer a message to Democratic voters that doesn't just remind them of the Obama years, but as a candidate who could perhaps take on Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: OK, and the other thing that jumps out again on this list of Democratic candidates is that the three leaders are white men, and particularly in a year where you hear a lot of push among the Democratic base for a woman, for a person of color, is this surprising, is this locked in?

ENTEN: I think it is somewhat surprising, more than that, the two leaders are over the age of 75, and we know from the polling that Democrats don't necessarily want to nominate someone over the age of 75. I will point out that the people right now in fourth and fifth, Kamala Harris and Mayor Pete are people who are a gay American and an African-American woman.

So there's perhaps, you know, we'll see what happens when these candidates get better known. Harris and Mayor Pete are not particularly well known at this time.

SCIUTTO: OK, Rebecca Buck, another candidate trying to distinguish herself from the field, the Senator Amy Klobuchar in revealing this trillion-dollar infrastructure plan, infrastructure priority for both parties, priority for a lot of Americans here. Really, an attempt to show -- I suppose to bring it back to the issues for her campaign.

BUCK: Absolutely. I mean, Amy Klobuchar is running basically on competence, on pragmatism, on this promise that she would be able to work across the aisle to actually get things done in Washington. Sort of this mid-western ethos that she's bringing to the race.

And she -- and her team believes as well as many Democrats, that, that sort of message can play very well in a place like Iowa, for example where this race is going to start for Democrats. And could also potentially stack up very well against Donald Trump.

I mean, someone like Amy Klobuchar is very low drama with the exception of the reporting about her staff. And so, that's just competence really. You could really go back to Jimmy Carter in 1976 who had a very similar message in that crowded race.

That's what Amy Klobuchar is trying to accomplish with these sorts of policy proposals. But really, these policy proposals are sort of beating around the bush. Because the defining question of this Democratic primary is ultimately going to be electability versus Donald Trump. That is the question ultimately that Democratic voters are asking.

SCIUTTO: Yes, they put that at the top of the list. Final question before we go, it is baseball opening day, I'm sitting next to a fellow Mets fan here and apologies to the other 330 million people in the country. Your prediction for the World Series?

ENTEN: Oh --

SCIUTTO: Do the Mets have any chance in hell?

ENTEN: Oh, I think the Mets do have a chance --

SCIUTTO: OK --

ENTEN: The prediction for the World Series is the Astros taking on the Dodgers. So we've seen that match-up before. And then the other thing I would point out for the Mets, I think they're going to make the playoffs. I looked at a lot of these different projection systems and most of them say they won 85, 86, 87 games, win the Wildcard. There's one that actually suggests they win a division. So the Mets have a real shot here, I will say that much --

SCIUTTO: Fantastic, and apologies to everybody else in the world for even asking that question. Now, also to you, Rebecca , I know that you're a Nats fan.

ENTEN: We're all baseball fans --

SCIUTTO: Our sympathies --

BUCK: That's right, go Nats --

SCIUTTO: The top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee says the report everybody wants to see might not be made public after all. That would mean, you and I can't see it. So how will he fight the Attorney General to get the Mueller report released?

And we are just moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street, new numbers out there this morning show that the GDP in the fourth quarter is in line with expectations with growth for the year expected to be just under 3 percent, near President Trump's target.

[09:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: When the Attorney General gave Congress his four-page summary of Robert Mueller's final report on the Russia probe. House Democrats set a deadline next Tuesday to see the report for themselves along with the evidence behind it.

Now the chairman of the Judiciary Committee says that Bill Barr will not be meeting that deadline and that they may not see the full report ever, which means you wouldn't. CNN's Kara Scannell joins me now. How long then if they're not going to meet the deadline, is there any new deadline?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, there isn't a new deadline that's set, but our Manu Raju spoke with the House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler yesterday, and Nadler revealed that he had spoken to Barr on Wednesday for the first time since Bill Barr; the Attorney General handed his four-page summary of Robert Mueller's report over to Congress on Sunday.

And during that phone call, Nadler could not get Bill Barr to commit to releasing the full Mueller report, and said that he would find that to be unacceptable. Let's hear what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I am most concerned that when I asked whether the -- we could commit that the American people and the Congress would see the entire unredacted report and the underlying evidence, he would not make a commitment on that, and that is not acceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: And Jim, so Nadler saying there that it is unacceptable for that. But we're also learning from him that Bill Barr said that he would not give the White House a sneak preview of the report before he sent it to Congress. So DOJ lawyers working with some staff from Mueller's team are continuing to go through the report, scrubbing it for classified information, any material that might be related to the grand jury criminal proceedings.

So as of now, there is no deadline, but the Democrats seemed to acknowledge that Barr is not going to meet the April 2nd one, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Now, Adam Schiff; the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he says that he wants Mueller to testify so that members can ask him how he came to those conclusions. Does that happen?

[09:30:00]