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CNN NEWSROOM

Netanyahu Vows to Annex West Bank Settlements; Trump Calls U.S. asylum Policy a Scam; Ilhan Omar Singled out at Jewish Republican Event; Violent Clashes Continue in Libya near Tripoli; Suspicious Fires Burn Down Black Louisiana Churches; Rwanda Observes 25 Years since Genocide; Auburn Basketball Players in Shock after Semifinal Loss. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired April 7, 2019 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): President Trump announcing his loyalty for Israel ahead of a critical election for Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. We'll take you live to Jerusalem in just a moment.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): In Mexico with an influx of migrants at their own border, some are considering an approach that echoes Donald Trump's.

ALLEN (voice-over): Also this hour, one of the bloodiest chapters in human history. It's 25 years since the Rwanda genocide. We hear from a survivor who only talks about forgiveness.

HOWELL (voice-over): Live from CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. We want to welcome our viewers here and around the world. I'm George Howell.

ALLEN (voice-over): I'm Natalie Allen. NEWSROOM starts right now.

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ALLEN: Israel's election is just two days away and prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu looking for support at home and abroad. And he's getting it from President Trump, who could be key.

The White House has already recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital and Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. Now Mr. Netanyahu's going a step more. He's pledging to annex West Bank settlements if he's re-elected.

HOWELL: This comes as the prime minister faces his biggest political challenge in years. Polls show he's in a tight race with his former military chief of staff, Benny Gantz.

President Trump weighed in on Saturday and touted his support for Israel, also trying to paint Democrats as anti-Semitic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Democrats have allowed anti-Semitism to take root in their party and in their country. They have allowed that. They have allowed that. House Democrats recently blocked legislation to confront the anti-Semitic movement to boycott and sanction Israel. Nobody could believe it, right?

Nobody. You couldn't believe it. Republicans believe that we must never ignore the vile poison of anti-Semitism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: President Trump pointing the finger at Democrats for anti- Semitism. Let's go to Michael Holmes covering the election.

President Trump before standing staunchly in support of Israel. But Mr. Netanyahu has taken a move to gain support that has angered Palestinians in the 48 hours before the election.

What can you tell us?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is interesting. Donald Trump and his unbridled support for Israel undoubtedly makes him a popular figure in Israel. That relationship between Benjamin Netanyahu and President Trump has been an electoral plus for Netanyahu, being seen with President Trump weeks ago.

The president recognizing Israel's sovereignty over the Golan Heights, something not recognized by the broader international community. You have the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, moving of the embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv. It's a huge deal here.

When it comes to the settlements and what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say obviously infuriating the Palestinians, let's listen to part of what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say on that.

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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL (voice-over): In my opinion, each block of the Israeli area is under Israeli control. We, the Israeli government, have responsibility of these areas. I won't move these blocks to the Palestinian Authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes, Natalie, it's certainly a big move. Benjamin Netanyahu was on record in the last election, saying there wouldn't be a Palestinian state on his watch. In many ways, no surprise.

But the Palestinians, the existence of those settlements, would prevent any contiguous, workable Palestinian state. So it will be a controversial calling in the last 48 hours leading up to the vote itself.

U.S. support for any such declaration, were Netanyahu to win and do that regarding the settlements, U.S. support for that would absolutely be critical, given the international communities' view of settlement which is that they are illegal, something that Israel disputes.

ALLEN: Mr. Netanyahu making sure he is victorious on Tuesday, taking that final step.

What about Netanyahu fatigue?

Is that something that he has to be concerned with?

He has certainly been leading Israel for some time.

HOLMES: Yes, 13 years as prime minister; if he wins this election, by mid-year he'll be the longest serving --

[05:05:00]

HOLMES: -- prime minister ever. It's interesting, he has faced corruption allegations and scandals for a long time now and he's proved to be his usual master of deflection, kind of Houdini like in his ability to shrug it all off.

He's waiting for a hearing after the election to see if he'll be indicted by the attorney general over breach of trust and bribery and fraudulent intent and things like that. He has used those allegations to rally his base. He borrowed the phrase "witch hunt" from Donald Trump.

What is interesting in terms of the fatigue angle, with Benny Gantz, his main opposition in the Blue and White Party, he says, yes, it's time for Netanyahu to go. He's only interested in himself. He's been pushing the fatigue angle. But at the moment the polls make it look like, in a head-to-head sense, too close to call. The polls open Tuesday.

ALLEN: One to watch closely. Michael Holmes covering it for us.

Thanks, Michael.

HOWELL: Natalie, to your point, the U.S. president portrays himself as the best friend Israel has ever had in the White House.

ALLEN: Yes, he basically said as much on Saturday to a crowd of Jewish supporters in Las Vegas. CNN's Boris Sanchez was there.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump spent a good deal of his speech to the Republican Jewish coalition on Saturday talking about Israel. Trump touting his record talking about recognizing the sovereignty over the Golan Heights, moving the American embassy to Jerusalem and also about his Jewish son-in-law, Jared Kushner, saying if Jared couldn't get Middle East peace, then no one can.

Trump also spent a portion of his speech attacking Democrats, going after representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar and at one point bashing the former administration and President Barack Obama over the Iran nuclear deal. But a large part of the speech was dedicated to immigration. Listen

to what he said about asylum seekers trying to enter the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The asylum program is a scam. Some of the roughest people you've ever seen, people that look like they should be fighting for the UFC. They read a little page given by lawyers that are all over the place. They tell them what to say. You look at this guy, you say, wow. That's a tough cookie. I am very fearful for my life. I am very worried that I will be accosted if I am sent back home. No, no. He'll do the accosting.

Asylum, oh, give him asylum. He's afraid. He's afraid. We don't love the fact that he's got tattoos on his face. That's not a good sign. We don't love the fact that he's carrying the flag of Honduras or Guatemala or El Salvador only to say he's petrified to be in his country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He also talked about shutting down the border with Mexico even though he backpedaled on that earlier in the week and said he could enact 25 percent tariffs on auto parts moving through Mexico into the United States.

Lastly the president talked about health care. Remember this week President Trump and his surrogates talked about potentially proposing to Congress another way to repeal and replace ObamaCare following two previous failed attempts. President Trump at one point relented during the week, suggesting he would have to wait until after the 2020 election to pursue that goal.

Keep in mind, the House Democrats are in the majority there so it would be nearly impossible for the president to pass a repeal and replace of ObamaCare with the way that things stand now -- Boris Sanchez, CNN, traveling with the president in Las Vegas, Nevada.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL: Let's bring in Scott Lucas at the University of Birmingham, also the founder and editor of "EA WorldView," joining this hour from Birmingham, England.

Scott, good to have you.

SCOTT LUCAS, UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM: Good morning, George.

HOWELL: Good day to you. We just heard Mr. Trump on stage in Nevada talking about immigration. The way he is setting it up, putting so much focus on it, Scott, it does seem like he's preparing for 2020 and this will be, again, as we saw in 2016, a major talking point.

LUCAS: Yes, George. I mean, let's be clear here, that there are two issues here that are going to be among the Trump election issues. One of them is going to be anti-immigration, bashing of immigrants.

And the second will be accusing Democrats of being -- trying to take over the United States with anti-Semitism.

Let me be very frank with you, George. I am disturbed by the hypocrisy of this. I am disturbed by the fact that --

[05:10:00]

LUCAS: -- it was Donald Trump in 2015, who called the Republican Jewish coalition, who he spoke to yesterday, accused them of trying to control their own candidates. In 2016, in his campaign, Donald Trump and his advisers, Jewish leaders say that they used anti-Semitic imagery, six-point Stars of David on $100 bills; claims that George Soros, the Jewish financier, was trying to take over the United States by Hillary Clinton.

Then in 2017, Donald Trump excused white supremacists in Charlottesville who shouted anti-Semitism slogans.

Now you have the same president who says, oh, it's the Democrats who are anti-Semitic. One other thing, George, remember that Jews have historically been condemned for trying to invade countries. Here is Donald Trump using most of his speech yesterday saying that it is immigrants trying to invade the United States, that Jews have been called animals in the past, who called migrants, women and children as well as men, animals several months ago. Donald Trump did.

That's why I'm find it disturbing about the way that these issues, which we should all deal with, are being turned into election sound bites by a man who may not be as honest as he appears to be at rallies.

HOWELL: The backdrop in Nevada can't be lost on the fact that there is a major election playing out in Israel this week as well. Mr. Trump talking about that nation, his controversial decisions there, his son-in-law's approach towards Middle East peace.

How much of this was telegraphing his support in Benjamin Netanyahu and voters who will have to decide?

LUCAS: I don't think it's as much support for Netanyahu personally, George. The administration are great friends with Netanyahu personally as well as politically. But Donald Trump said he did expect a close election between Netanyahu and his rival, Benny Gantz.

I think it's more the superficial idea that Trump and his advisers are friends of Israel whereas his opponents, the Democrats, why, they are not.

Let's be clear, all of us respect and support Israel's people but that is different from asking questions about Israeli foreign policy; for example, Israel taking territory from Syria, the Golan Heights. Now Benjamin Netanyahu saying we will take territory from the Palestinian West Bank. Those are the issues that deserve to be discussed as well as the fact that there is no Trump administration peace plan. Jared Kushner does not have a plan after more than two years in office. But by just simply saying, I love Israel, Donald Trump hopes to keep attention away from the issues and trying to use that superficial call to get Jews to vote for him in 2020.

HOWELL: Typically Jewish voters in the U.S. side with Democrats so the president here trying to narrow the gap, to gain support for Republicans. We'll see how it plays out in the election, of course.

We also heard from the former U.S. president, Barack Obama, warning of a danger in progressives becoming too rigid in seeking ideological purity in their positions, essentially tearing down candidates who don't support far left views.

You've had an opinion on this before. You say don't be too concerned about the Left becoming too far left.

What do you think of the former president's opinion on this topic?

LUCAS: I think it's a very sensible thing. If you fall into the trap of simply portraying someone as a moderate or as a leftist, you play into Donald Trump's hands, who are going to talk about the extremist Democrats.

What unites a lot of us, whether or not we're Republican or Democrats, is serious issues of climate change, issues of education, health care, American foreign policy and simply decency in politics.

And simply labeling someone as left or centrist, whether you're doing that as a Republican or Democrat, that's evading those issues. That's where we need to keep our focus in 2020.

HOWELL: Scott Lucas, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

LUCAS: Thank you, George.

ALLEN: On a related topic, U.S. authorities say they have arrested a New York man for threatening to kill House Democrat Ilhan Omar. She's only one of two Muslim women ever elected to Congress. In a phone call the suspect allegedly threatened to kill her because of her faith. Omar has drawn criticism for comments about ties between pro- Israel lobbyists and U.S. lawmakers.

Despite the alleged death, President Trump mocked her on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And a special thanks to Representative Omar of Minnesota -- oh. Oh. Oh, I forgot, she doesn't like Israel. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, no she doesn't like Israel, does she?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[05:15:00] HOWELL: The Council on American Immigration has responded to the arrest, and suggests rhetoric from President Trump might be driving these kinds of threats.

It writes, "The rising threat of Islamophobia and white supremacy must be taken seriously. We are thankful that law enforcement tracked this individual down before he could act on his hatred for Muslims."

ALLEN: Coming up here, the world is calling for an end to the violence in Libya but so far the competing factions haven't heeded the calls for peace. We will have a live report from London coming up here.

HOWELL: Plus, massive floods take down entire towns in Western Iran. We have the latest on weather conditions there. Stay with us.

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HOWELL: In Sudan, anti-government protesters are calling for the president to step down after three decades in power. Opposition activists say Omar al-Bashir is guilty of war crimes. Demonstrators reached the presidential compound on Saturday and are camped out there to make their demands known.

ALLEN: Meantime, the government is cracking down on the demonstrations. State media reports a man died during Saturday's protests. Pro-democracy groups say dozens have died since these protests began. We'll keep watching it.

Now we look at Libya; clashes between competing factions have reportedly intensified there.

HOWELL: We're getting reports that the U.N.-backed government has launched airstrikes near Tripoli. They're targeting rival forces led by renegade general Khalifa Haftar from the east.

ALLEN: Meantime, the international community continues to demand an end to the fighting. Foreign ministers from G7 nations have urged all sides to support U.N.-led talks.

HOWELL: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has the story.

As the situation on the ground seems very ominous, what are you hearing now?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Well, despite those international calls for de-escalation, George, things are absolutely heating up on the ground there. No signs that things are slowing down as these two fighting factions, the internationally recognized government of Tripoli, and Haftar's troops on the outskirts of the city, are facing off, there is no sign of it slowing down. Now there are claims and counter claims as to what is happening. For

General Haftar's part, they say they have taken key portions south of Tripoli. The government of national accord is --

[05:20:00]

ABDELAZIZ: -- disputing that, saying they have repelled a lot of Haftar's forces and that he is on the back foot. What's clear is that the rhetoric is ramping up. Take a listen to what the prime minister said just yesterday to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAYEZ AL-SARRAJ, U.N.-BACKED LIBYAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We've extended our hand to peace but the attack that took place from the forces of Haftar and his declaration of war on cities and our capital and his declaration of coup d'etat to the presidential council will be met with strength and power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: The prime minister there, portraying this feeling of betrayal from Haftar. They had met in Abu Dhabi in February and had agreed with U.N. mediators in the room that general elections were the way forward.

Now we're seeing this escalation on the ground, which was a surprise to everyone, including those in Tripoli, including the U.N. secretary- general Antonio Guterres, who happened to be in Tripoli at the time and was forced to do shuttle diplomacy, which obviously failed.

We do have new information this hour; U.S. troops, a contingent of them supporting AFRICOM on the ground, have been relocated due to the security on the ground. Another reminder of just how dangerous this is.

HOWELL: Salma Abdelaziz, we'll stay in touch with you. Thank you.

ALLEN: Now we turn to Iran, which is threatening to classify the United States military as a terrorist organization. It's pushback because the Trump administration is expected to designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard corps as a terror group as early as next week.

The U.S. and Iran both accuse each other's armies of killing innocent people.

HOWELL: And Iran's supreme leader is demanding Iraq to demand American troops leave that area as soon as possible. Ayatollah Khamenei spoke to Iraq's prime minister on Saturday and said the U.S. does not support democracy there.

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[05:25:00] ALLEN: Stunning admissions by the British prime minister as she stares down the very real possibility of a no deal Brexit next Friday. Theresa May has now acknowledged publicly she needs the Labour Party's support to avoid crashing out of the E.U. April 12th. Such a move would have been unthinkable a short time ago.

HOWELL: Indeed. It's still unclear whether European leaders in Brussels will grant more time. France is getting impatient and wants the U.K. to get on with it. Its foreign minister says Europe can't keep waiting for London to make up its mind.

Like the United States, Mexico is trying to figure out how to handle an influx of migrants. Some think the answer may be to copy a person up to the north. We'll follow that.

ALLEN: Also, three churches consumed by fire under what officials call suspicious circumstances in Louisiana. We'll have the story for you.

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HOWELL: Welcome back to viewers here in the United States and around the world. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Atlanta. I'm George Howell.

ALLEN: I'm Natalie Allen. If you're just joining us, here are the top stories.

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HOWELL: The U.S. president called America's asylum program a scam in a speech on Saturday. He alleges that lawyers coached "tough people" to get through the process. That's what he says.

ALLEN: He compared those men to mixed martial artists, who he said looked like they're fighting for the UFC. But there are some migrants who are happy just where they are now, in Mexico. And our Paula Newton has their story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was once part of the caravan but Maya Lopez Garcia says she now thanks God and Mexico for letting her stay right here.

"We're fine here," she says. "That's why we're not thinking of going to the United States. We'll stay here."

Granted a temporary visa, Maya makes a living making tortillas. She says she escaped poverty and violence in Guatemala and is now counting on Mexico for her future. Tens of thousands would like to join her. Mexico's borders, both the north and south, are overwhelmed with migrants, mostly from Central America, who've already been waiting months just for a chance at a new life in the United States.

"So if we end up with a chance to stay here in Mexico, we'll take it," says Carlos Gomez from Honduras, "and work hard to make a living."

And this is where things are starting to get complicated for new Mexican president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. He had promised a more humanitarian policy for migrants and that's being challenged now, not just by President Trump but more Mexicans, too.

Even people like Aaron Mendez, who helps run a migrant shelter near the Texas border.

"I think one of the solutions is to change the immigration strategy," he says, "which now lets in all the undocumented migrants."

That echoes the thoughts of so-called Mexican Trumpistas, who may not even like Trump but believe he has a point when it comes to immigration.

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NEWTON (voice-over): On a popular national radio station, Radio Formula, the head of the migration agency was put on the spot this week about how Mexico will cope with all the new migrants. He admitted his government is granting fewer humanitarian visas. Tere Vale is a Radio Formula journalist and host, she's says it is obvious the migrant influx is unsustainable.

TERE VALE, RADIO FORMULA HOST (through translator): Now we see something like never before in Mexico, a president who is very docile when facing pressure from the United States. Mexico is between the sword and the wall.

NEWTON (voice-over): And President Trump claims his ultimatums are the reason Mexico is now apprehending more migrants on its southern border. Mexican government counters that it has a long-term plan.

LUZ MARIA DE LA MORA, MEXICAN UNDERSECRETARY FOR FOREIGN TRADE: So Mexico is being put under a lot of pressure from both ends. We're being squeezed, exactly. And I think it's -- I mean, it's unfair to say that we are not trying to part of the solution, because I think that this administration has done a lot of the things that can be done to help this humanitarian crisis.

NEWTON (voice-over): Mexico says it plans to make history of the caravans, with economic development in Southern Mexico and Central America. To do it, though, it will need much help and patience, not just from the Trump administration but Mexicans themselves -- Paula Newton, CNN, Mexico City.

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ALLEN: We turn now to Louisiana. Three black churches have burned down in what officials call suspicious circumstances.

HOWELL: No injuries, no deaths were caused by these fires. These fires occurring within 10 days in the same rural area. The FBI is helping local authorities to investigate. Our Kaylee Hartung has this report.

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KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All three of these churches burned in the middle of the night, so, thankfully, no one was injured. But there are more similarities than just the timing of these three churches burning to the ground in the last 10 days.

It's led authorities to believe it's more than a coincidence. Each of these three churches in Louisiana, very active in their community over more than the last 100 years. Each of these church buildings, they were located on or near rural highways in the area.

Authorities have not yet been able to say that they can conclusively --

[05:35:00]

HARTUNG: -- connect all three fires but they say they found suspicious elements at each that they say will be thoroughly probed.

The state fire marshal in Louisiana cautioning, any arson investigation can take months because you're dealing with a very complicated and unconventional crime scene. All of your evidence has burned. In the case of each of these three climate change, not much more than rubble remains. So investigators have a lot of work ahead of them.

That being said, the sheriff in this area says he hears the communities' pleas for this crime to be solved. And he says some progress has been made.

Given that we're talking about three churches with African American congregation, it has been recognized this could be racially motivated but authorities have not yet come to that conclusion.

And the pastors for these churches are saying they don't want to inject race unnecessarily into the conversation. One reverend says he doesn't know who is doing this and he doesn't know why but he doesn't want to be the one responsible for injecting race into this conversation.

Meantime, all three churches finding alternate locations for their Sunday services. One reverend, Harry Richard, saying this is the message he wants his congregation to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRY RICHARD, PASTOR, GREATER UNION BAPTIST CHURCH: God's grace is undeserved merit. I know we don't deserve this but He gives us something better than this. And that's undeserved grace. I thank God for grace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARTUNG: Authorities say they're allocating more manpower, authorizing overtime to ensure people in this community are safe and protected when they go to church this Sunday -- Kaylee Hartung, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Twenty-five years after the bloodshed, the world remembers the horror of the Rwanda genocide; 800,000 killed by their neighbors. We will speak with a survivor and we'll learn her message of forgiveness for the world when we come back.

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HOWELL: Welcome back.

In Rwanda, a grim anniversary. The nation is coming together to remember the genocide of 1994. Rwandans and international leaders just took part in a wreath-laying and lighting of a commemorative flame. They'll also participate in a march and a vigil.

Twenty-five years ago Hutu extremists targeted ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutus in a deadly rampage; 800,000 people were killed. The tensions between the groups had been brewing for a long time before the genocide. These attacks over 100 days ended with millions for both sides in a refugee camp.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the light, the light of remembrance, the light of --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL (voice-over): Many countries, including the United States, did little to nothing to end the bloodshed there. Then the U.S. president Bill Clinton had said he had regrets for not taking action.

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BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wish I had intervened in Rwanda and I have spent the rest of my life and will spend the rest of my life trying to make it up to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: There are people in Rwanda who prove that hope can rise above the ashes of genocide. One organization is doing just that. It's called Agahozo Shalom Youth Village, which means The Place Where Tears Are Dried.

it's a system of foster homes that builds families for children who have lost their parents and parents who have lost their children. One foster mother who suffered her own trauma during the genocide explains why it's given her new life and new purpose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMERITHE MUKARUSAGARA, FOSTER MOTHER (through translator): Raising children like these, who don't know or have their mothers or fathers, you help them until they call you their mom. Then they've become adults. It makes me so proud.

I have more than 10 children that bring me joy when they call me their mom. It's a big contribution I give and I thank this village, which gave me this work of raising children who don't have parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: There were 95,000 orphans left in this genocide. Joining us now is author Immaculee Ilibagiza. She wrote the book entitled, "Left to Tell: Discovering God amidst the Rwandan Holocaust." She joins us live from New York.

And it's a pleasure to have you with us, Immaculee. Thank you so much.

IMMACULEE ILIBAGIZA, AUTHOR AND GENOCIDE SURVIVOR: Thank you so much.

ALLEN: We'll talk about your story and how you survived because it is remarkable. You lived through it, though. It took your family 25 years to go. I hope it feels like it's been a long time now.

What are your thoughts on this day of remembrance?

ILIBAGIZA: You know, my thought is that, you know, it feels actually like it was yesterday. I still remember, when in the morning, my brother told me, they have started killing people. The day we were separated like was yesterday.

(INAUDIBLE) I am grateful that finally we are in a good place in Rwanda. I am grateful that there is progress, survival and healing. The country is doing great (INAUDIBLE).

I just want to tell the survivors, please, especially, they are suffering, especially remembering on a day like this. But be strong. (INAUDIBLE) not in the end we all die but be helpful and be happy and love everyone.

ALLEN: That's a wonderful message and you've spent your life spreading that message. You describe the terror you lived with every second as like dying alive. You were crouched in a small bathroom with six other women for three months. And the people that were threatening you were right outside the door. Yes, you described it as like dying alive.

When you look back on that, can you even explain what it was like to live through that?

And here are pictures of when you and these women went back to that bathroom for a news story and talked about your ordeal.

ILIBAGIZA: Yes, thank you. It's true, it was like a thousand needles going through your body, living those three months with those ladies. And we didn't speak. It was painful. But when I think back, the pain has become less.

But I go to visit the bathroom. Sometimes when I'm there, I can't believe that was a place. I can't believe this is where we spent three months, eight of us.

But (INAUDIBLE) in many different ways.

ALLEN: When you walked out of that bathroom, you weighed 65 pounds and, since then, you came face to face with the man who killed your mother, your father, your brothers. And you forgave him.

Was that hard to do?

ILIBAGIZA: What was hard to forgive was to understand forgiveness.

[05:45:00]

ILIBAGIZA: During those three months I prayed from morning to night and I came to realize that my anger was too much. It was hurting me. I can feel my body burning just (INAUDIBLE) I had.

And I remember (INAUDIBLE) just praying to God, help me, help me to forgive. Finally I realized that you don't compete with evil. You cannot because (INAUDIBLE) bad you want to do as bad as they are doing.

But I came to a place of peace, of forgiveness, not a place of negativity, to think, let me go out and that's OK. But I can still protect myself, not myself -- not make myself a victim. But (INAUDIBLE) the anger.

And (INAUDIBLE). When I met the man it was not hard to forgive him because my heart had understood that the heroes we celebrate, people like Gandhi, Mandela, those are the people who are strong, who have seen suffering, who have known injustice.

And no matter what they go through, they stand up for peace, for truth, for justice. Those are the people finally that became my heroes. So when I met the man, I can really see that.

You didn't know what you were doing. You have hatred so you have to express it to other people, including us. So I really understood that I needed to attend to my warnings and cry for my family and pray for them, not be attached to the person who have (INAUDIBLE) there -- (CROSSTALK)

ALLEN: That's a beautiful reflection.

ILIBAGIZA: Thank you.

ALLEN: I like what you say about you can't compete with evil. So here we are, 25 years later; Rwanda is a different country today.

How do you feel when you go back there?

ILIBAGIZA: Oh, I feel so proud. I feel so happy. You know, when I go to Rwanda, I think, I live in United States now. But when I go back I take groups to visit. So when they see it, when they say, did it happen here?

Because naturally, people in Rwanda, like in the world, they are good. They are good at heart. So this evil that happened to us, I am so glad that it's not anymore.

ALLEN: All right, we thank you so much, Immaculee, for joining us. And I did post your story on Facebook so I hope people will watch it because it's really remarkable what you survived and lived through and how you're living your life today. Thank you so much for joining us. We wish you all the best.

HOWELL: So much grace, given what she has been through.

ALLEN: Absolutely. She's remarkable.

HOWELL: As the world remembers the horrific killings, survivors of the genocide have been sharing their stories.

ALLEN: One man says he found peace after marrying the daughter of the man who killed his family. Here's the couple reflecting on their remarkable story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN GIRANEZA, SURVIVOR (through translator): I prayed for a wife to come and help me, because I was crippled. But the woman I found was the woman whose father had killed my family. I approached her but didn't know whether she would accept me.

MAILEJANNE UWIMANA, SURVIVOR (through translator): When we got married, everyone was angry at us. Both our families would not speak to us but they would come to check if I was alive. They wanted to see if I was fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: Wow. Just amazing.

ALLEN: It is.

HOWELL: Incredible stories. We'll be right back after this. (MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:50:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ALLEN: An incredible, controversial, maddening -- I was watching from a sport bar, couldn't believe it -- to a March Madness college basketball game in the U.S. state of Minnesota.

HOWELL: Fans of one university went from ecstasy to misery in just seconds. Our sports correspondent, Andy Scholes, is following it all from Minneapolis -- Andy.

ALLEN: Hi, there, Andy.

How about --

(CROSSTALK)

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Guys, you've got to feel so bad for Auburn this morning. I mean, let me set the scene. They were down in this game. Went on a huge 12-0 run in the final minutes to take the lead. But then a no call by the officials and, in a controversial --

[05:55:00]

SCHOLES: -- call in the final seconds -- I was standing right by the students, many of them started crying when they ended up losing the game. And I caught up with some of those students as they were leaving and they felt cheated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so upset. Auburn basketball has come so far this year. It's so phenomenal to see it come this far and to see it and this way it's just awful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to (INAUDIBLE). I don't like it, not one bit. But --

SCHOLES: (INAUDIBLE) you were cheated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit. A little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disappointment. I mean, every step of the way, we fought and fought and fought. But to have it take away like that in the last second is just ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I think sometimes you got to let the players decide and it wasn't our night. We came out; we played our hearts and then we had to do but it just didn't, you know, (INAUDIBLE) to ourselves. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That call...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: There was no controversy in the (INAUDIBLE) game. (INAUDIBLE) the second half after senior Matt Money for the Red Raiders got hot and he scored (INAUDIBLE) 22 (INAUDIBLE) to win 61-51 and this is the biggest win in Texas Tech's history.

The only team sports title they ever won was women's basketball. That was way back in 1993 and the students near campus in Lubbock, a little too excited about this one. A few fires were set. A car was flipped over. Police had to come out in riot gear to disperse the crowd that had gathered outside of campus.

Guys, I actually lived in Lubbock for three years, coverage Texas Tech athletics. And I'll tell you what, the fans there craving a championship. A little too excited about the win on Saturday night.

ALLEN: Yes. Having fun down there in Lubbock. All right, Andy, thanks so much.

HOWELL: Thanks, Andy.

ALLEN: Thank you for watching. I'm Natalie Allen.

HOWELL: And I'm George Howell. The news continues here on CNN after the break.