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Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) Discusses Pompeo Briefing On Iranian Threat, Impeachment And Don McGahn's No-Show; Trump Continues To Attack Biden Against Advisers' Advice; Beto O'Rourke Will Try To Recapture Momentum At Tonight's CNN Town Hall; Nationwide Protests Erupt Over Abortion Bans Across U.S.; Fox News Host Privately Encouraged Trump To Pardon U.S. War Criminals; Mueller Team Hesitant About Special Counsel Testifying Publicly Before Lawmakers. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 21, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: And therefore, they've ramped up, in my opinion, they've ramped up this military action to provide even more pressure on Iran. The problem is --

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So you think it's justified?

GARAMENDI: No, I don't. I think it's extremely dangerous. Things happen. We could wind up with a Tonkin Gulf situation, in which there's a real or accidental incident of some sort or another. All of that would bring me to, wait a minute, what are we doing here.

And there's another question here. Yes, the military has the right and the obligation to defend itself. At the same time, there's no authorization to go to war with Iran. And that is a real concern that many of us have, that the administration is looking for an excuse. I do not want to live with another Vietnam, another gulf of --

BALDWIN: Gulf of Tonkin.

GARAMENDI: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. Which actually led to the war, which is actually precisely --

GARAMENDI: Yes.

BALDWIN: -- not that reference. But the Foreign Minister Zarif referenced an inadvertent military conflict with our reporter --

GARAMENDI: Exactly.

BALDWIN: -- in that interview.

Here's my question. Within this briefing, was Secretary Pompeo challenged on his rhetoric or the rhetoric of the administration within this briefing by members of Congress such as yourself?

GARAMENDI: Well, I did not have the opportunity to challenge him but, yes, he was challenged. He was challenged on the build-up and the necessity for it, and also on the question of, do you have authority to go to war with Iran. And frankly, his answer was extraordinarily vague.

BALDWIN: The U.S., as you well know, has sent this carrier strike group and this bomber task force into the gulf.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

BALDWIN: Plus, it has also designated Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist organization and, yet, President Trump just said this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have no indication that anything has happened or will happen. But if it does, it will be met obviously with great force. We'll have no choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: No indication anything has happened. So why, Congressman, do you think the president has made this such a big deal?

GARAMENDI: Well, as I said, I think it has everything to do with maximum force, maximum pressure on Iran.

BALDWIN: For the JCPOA.

GARAMENDI: Well, to try to bring Iran back to the negotiating table to negotiate beyond the JCPOA. Keep in mind the JCPOA was working. It was in effect and working. Iran was abiding by the requirements of that.

Now Iran was engaged in other activities, no doubt about it. They were continuing to support Hezbollah and other -- and the Houthis in Yemen. That is not news. That is been going on for, well, 20 years or 30 years in the case of Hezbollah, with regard to Yemen for the last 10 to 15 years. So there's nothing -- it is not new.

It is dangerous. There's no need, in my mind, for the carrier force to be there.

BALDWIN: OK.

GARAMENDI: We do have some 70,000 personnel in the area. including 7500 in Iraq. Perfectly capable of handling the Syria ISIS situation. They certainly could handle whatever situation there might be now.

BALDWIN: I want to move on, Congressman, Garamendi --

GARAMENDI: Sure.

BALDWIN: -- to impeachment of this president. I know that you want these congressional investigations to go.

GARAMENDI: Right. BALDWIN: And you want them to go on unimpeded.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

BALDWIN: But the White House continues to stonewall at every turn, including today's no-show by Don McGahn, right, defying the subpoena. Have you changed your mind?

GARAMENDI: Not really. What I have changed my mind is that the president is the loser here. He lost in court this last week. That is an -- or yesterday actually. This is a very important loss for him. It sets the stage for the documents, his tax returns and other information to be available.

The bottom line of this is whether it is an impeachment hearing or a series of hearings prior to a question of impeachment, either way, the Congress has an obligation, has constitutional authority, and we have all of the power to call before us the people that are involved in the Mueller report, in the issue of the 2016 election, and in the 10 issues of obstruction.

I am convinced that once those hearings are underway, we will find a path that will do one of two ways, impeachment or no. Odds on, we may be headed for an impeachment once those hearings begin. Because the facts, if shown as laid out in the Mueller report, prove out in public, I think the American people will say we can't have a president that is engaged in obstructing justice.

BALDWIN: OK.

Congressman John Garamendi, thank you, sir.

GARAMENDI: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: President Trump, meantime, just can't seem to help himself when it comes to attacking Democratic presidential candidate, Joe Biden. Even his own advisers are telling him not to do it. We will play the new attack in this key state.

[14:35:03] Plus, we are learning more about the president's plan for a new round of pardons, including who may be giving him advice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We're getting in some new poll numbers showing Joe Biden continuing to dominate as a frontrunner here. The Quinnipiac University poll showing Joe Biden favored now by 35 percent of Democrats. And Bernie Sanders follows by 16 percent and followed by Elizabeth Warren at 13 percent, and so on and so forth.

[14:40:05] This is as President Trump is ramping up his re-election bid at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. And he's making it crystal clear that he considers Pennsylvania native, Joe Biden, a threat to take the state in 2020. The president telling supporters that he's got to win Pennsylvania in 2020. Trump narrowly won Pennsylvania in 2016. But recent polling shows him trailing Biden in a head-to-head match-up.

Joe Biden was born in Scranton but his family moved out of the state when he was 11. Trump seizing on Biden's childhood move to cast him as a deserter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Don't forget, Biden deserted you. He's not in Pennsylvania. I guess he was born here but he left you folks. He left you for another state.

(LAUGHTER)

Remember that, please. I meant to say that. This guy talks about, I know Scranton, well, I know the places better. He left you for another state and he didn't take care of you. Because he didn't take of your jobs.

(SHOUTING)

TRUMP: He let other countries come in and rip off America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: David Chalian is with me, our CNN political director, live in Des Moines ahead of the big town hall, which we'll get to in a second.

But, first, David, the new poll numbers, when you see Biden up at 35 percent, he is -- two headlines for me. He's sort of smoking his competition at this stage and, number two, Elizabeth Warren is rising.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICS DIRECTOR: Yes. So this looks remarkably similar to Quinnipiac poll of a month ago. So you're right about those two headlines, Brooke. It wasn't just an announcement bump for Biden. He is extending that well into -- beyond the one-month point of his candidacy and still staying a frontrunner.

Elizabeth Warren, I think last month, in this poll, was at 12 and now at 13. So Biden formidable frontrunner.

And what is also clear is there's a clear top-five right now. Right? Those folks above 5 percent, Sanders, Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, joining Biden in that category.

And you said, at this stage, it is just always important to caution, this is where things stand at the moment. We've got 258 days to go before the Iowa caucus.

BALDWIN: We need to remind everyone of that each and every day.

What about the insult that the president leveled at Pennsylvania's favorite son last night calling him a deserter? If you want to say deserted Pennsylvania because his parents made him move at age 11 deserted? CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, it makes no sense on the facts. I mean I

don't think there's any real chance that people are going to think that somehow Joe Biden turned his back on his home state when his parents --

BALDWIN: At the ripe age of 11.

CHALIAN: -- moved out of the state when he was 11. Yes, exactly. So I don't think that will hold.

But that is not what Donald Trump is doing it for, right? He's trying in every way possible to frame Joe Biden as an unacceptable choice to the very voters that Trump was able to win away from Obama, if you will, from the Democrats.

As you know, Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin, these are the states that delivered Donald Trump to the Oval Office. And he and his team are keenly aware that he doesn't have an advantage in those states right now. And so that is the path for re-election to him. Which is why you've seen him in Pennsylvania a ton.

And they are aware right now that Joe Biden is ahead in Pennsylvania. And Donald Trump is not waiting to start and build this frame to make him an unacceptable choice.

BALDWIN: Which one could argue is actually elevating Joe Biden because this is the president of the United States leveling -- elevating him in that sense.

So Biden is at the top of the heap. And you mentioned the focus on the top five at the moment. And so you are there in Des Moines, ahead of this huge town hall tonight for a man who wishes he were in the top five, who had crazy buzz back in time, Beto O'Rourke. Is this make- or-break for him?

CHALIAN: It is not make-or-break. And we have plenty of time. And I have little doubt that Beto O'Rourke will be able to sort of get a hearing from Democratic caucus-goers in this state in Iowa as he continues to campaign around.

But I do think it is a really important moment for him because he was in that top tier and he has slipped. And so he has since sort of professionalized his operation, hired some key staffers. He himself is boning up more on policy and trying to do sort of less jumping on counters and more trying to present himself as a potential president.

And being on the national stage in front of a big CNN national audience tonight, taking voters' questions, is a key component to that reboot he's trying to do to capture the energy that existed when he got in.

[14:45:03] BALDWIN: We'll be tuned in.

David Chalian, thank you so much.

And to all of you watching, please tune in tonight to watch former congressman and Democratic presidential hopeful, Beto O'Rourke, tonight. Dana Bash will moderate. It is live in Des Moines. They'll be taking questions from Iowa voters this evening at 10:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

We are learning more about President Trump's plan for a new round of pardons. He's said to be considering pardons for U.S. military members accused of murder and other crimes. And now we know who may have given him this idea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:02] BALDWIN: There are abortion rights protests underway right now across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By body, my choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By body, my choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: More than 50 organizations are marching in these stop-the- bans rallies. They're and aimed at halting this wave of anti-abortion laws sweeping state legislatures. Several states have already passed the most restrictive anti-abortion laws since the passage of Roe v. Wade and several more state bills are pending.

Dianne Gallagher is our CNN national correspondent there in Atlanta where some of the protesters concluded.

And I know you spoke with the women and men. Why were they out today?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, I could tell you, you're very familiar with the Atlanta area, and they were out on a day where it is more than 90 degrees and it was hot. There were hundreds of people who covered the mall in front of the Georgia state capitol. And they said it was to let people know and their lawmakers know that they're angry and they're scared.

In speaking to them, I talked to children, we talked to elderly men and women, people of all genders, and this wasn't in direct retaliation for the law passed here in Georgia about a week and a half ago, that so-called heartbeat law. It was for what has been happening in states across the nation.

As you mentioned, about half a dozen of the restrictive abortion laws have already passed in some of the states. Twice that many are bills that are going through legislature right now. And while they're aware, none of them are enforceable at this moment, they know that they want this, authors of the bills, to go to the courts. The goal is to get to a Supreme Court.

Well, the organizers and the protesters said it is not just up to the courts. They want them to know that they'll remember this and take this to the ballot box as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACI FOX, PRESIDENT & CEO, PLANNED PARENTHOOD SOUTHEAST: But if these politicians think that abortion, that is safe and legal abortion won't be front and center on the ballot next fall, they just aren't paying attention because we'll come for their seats. Women are running and activating like you saw like never before and we'll be holding them all accountable next fall in the voting booth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And, Brooke, I could tell you it seems at least the Democrats who want to be president in 2020 are taking notice. About half a dozen of them showed up at the protest in D.C. The rest of them have almost all tweeted their support at this point for these stop-the-ban protests.

BALDWIN: Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for that, in Atlanta.

Want to get you back to our breaking news. It has been this mystery but we now know why the Special Counsel Robert Mueller hasn't yet testified before Congress. We have that reporting out today.

And when Secretary Ben Carson appears before Congress, it is always interesting. And today was no exception. We will play the bizarre moments coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:13] BALDWIN: CNN has learned that a Fox News host encouraged President Trump to consider pardons for some military members accused of war crimes. A person familiar with the conversation said that weekend co-host, Pete Hegseth, privately encouraged Trump on the matter. He has discussed on air the cases of two U.S. servicemembers accused of murder, former Navy SEAL, Eddie Gallagher and Army Major Matt Goldstein.

Listen to how the host described him on his show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: First of all, I can't stand that headline, "accused of war crimes." These are men who went into the most dangerous places on earth with a job to defend us and made tough calls on a moment's notice. They are not war criminals. They're warriors who have been accused of certain things that are under review.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oliver Darcy is the man with the scoop. He's our CNN senior media reporter.

And so this is your reporting. What else do you know? OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: It seems, Brooke, every time

I'm on we're talking about another instance where FOX News and the White House have merged and they're effectively one. And this is the case today.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DARCY: So I'm being told that, someone familiar with the conversations, that Pete Hegseth has been privately encouraging the president behind the scenes to pardon several servicemen accused of war crimes, and very serious war crimes, too. So one of them for instance is accused of stabbing to death a captive prisoner after he was -- not dangerous but the person stabbed that individual to death.

Very serious crimes. They're making their way through the judicial system. But Pete Hegseth, who is a "Fox and Friends" weekly co-host, has been

encouraging Trump to issue the pardons.

And from our own reporting, our colleagues at the Pentagon, we know that there seems to be something going on behind the scenes, possibly leading up to a Memorial Day or around Memorial Day pardons being issued for those people.

BALDWIN: OK.

Oliver Darcy, thank you so much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: All right, we continue on. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

He's the breaking news we're following across the state of Oklahoma. Multiple water rescues have been happening all day after massive flooding erupted following the string of monster tornados overnight and early into the morning. This storm has dumped up to six inches of rain in some areas and forecasters are warning more tornados are possible. We'll take you to Oklahoma, live, in just a little bit.

Other breaking developments now regarding Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Sources tell CNN his team is hesitant about giving public testimony. Ever since he finished his report in late March, there has been this growing call for Robert Mueller to testify before the House Judiciary Committee.

Evan Perez is our senior justice correspondent. He's been keeping tabs on this.

[15:00:04] So what is the story from team Mueller? Why would he not want to testify?