Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Trump On Backlash Over ABC's Foreign Dirt Question, I Meet And Talk To Foreign Governments Every Day; Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) South Carolina Says, It's A Mistake For Trump To Say He'd Accept Dirt; 24 Officers Injured After U.S. Marshals Kill Man In Memphis. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired June 13, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: -- and draws about 1.5 million visitors a year, that would scare me.

[10:00:05]

Top of the hour here, and it's a busy one. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. Poppy is off today.

This morning, exactly no one, I repeat, no one is suggesting or has ever suggested that the President of the United States should call the FBI every he has a call or meeting with a foreign government. No one has ever suggested any such thing. But that is how President Trump is trying to spin and misleadingly so to spin the outrage coming so far only from democrats over his admission in an ABC News interview that everyone can watch that he would consider accepting dirt from foreign interests on his political opponents in next year's election, exactly what Russia did in the 2016 election.

Listen to those comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: Your campaign this time around, if foreigners, if Russia, if China, if someone else offers you information on an opponent, should they accept it or should they call the FBI?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think maybe you do both. I think you might want to listen. I think there's nothing wrong with listening. If somebody called from a country, Norway, we have information on your opponent, oh, I think I'd want to hear it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You want that kind of interference in our elections?

TRUMP: It's not an interference. They have information. I think I'd take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We'll go right to Senator Lindsey Graham commenting on this. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): -- giving you anything of value, whether it'd be money or information on your opponent, the right answer is no. And I've been consistent about that. I think Christopher Wray's statement is the correct statement. And I'm hoping some of my democratic colleagues will take more seriously the fact that Christopher Steele was a foreign agent paid for by the Democratic Party to gather dirt on Trump, document unverified use to get a warrant. That's why I'm so upset about that.

Foreign influence in our elections is growing, not lessening. And we don't want to send a signal to encourage it. So that's why I think looking at the FISA process regarding the Steele dossier is important.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What are the implications of hearing the President of the United States saying it's okay to accept foreign -- dirt from about an opponent?

GRAHAM: Now, I think it's a mistake. I think it's a mistake of law. I don't want to send a signal to encourage this. And I hope my democrat colleagues will be equally offended by the fact that this actually did happen in 2016 where a foreign agent was paid for by a political party to gather opposition research. All those things are wrong.

RAJU: Should there be legislation to make it expressly outlawed in this country?

GRAHAM: I think it already is, I think. But I'm willing to make it clear if we need to.

REPORTER: The President also suggested that you guys, members of Congress, would do the exact same thing by accepting foreign information.

GRAHAM: Well, I can only speak for myself. I've never had a government come up to me and say, hey, I'd like to help you in your campaign. The answer is no. It's got to be no. I mean, the likelihood of foreign interference is grow, not lessening. And, again, you know, you've got a situation in 2016 that, you know, Don Jr. sat down and talked with somebody, representing themselves, to have information. And that was a mistake. Apparently, they didn't act on this. It's not a crime to have a meeting. It's a crime to receive the information. And, apparently, that didn't happen.

But what did happen, for sure, I know, is that Christopher Steele was hired by Fusion GPS, who was paid by the Democratic party, and his dossier was salacious and unverified to this day and used to get a warrant and maybe start a counterintelligence investigation.

So I want to look at all of it and I want us to come out of the 2016 election with some real bright lines that no party should be hiring foreign agents to look at their opponents. And we shouldn't be taking meetings.

RAJU: Has the president taken the wrong lessons from Russia interference in the 2016 elections?

GRAHAM: Well, I think the President's statement with the Polish Prime Minister was the right statement, that we need to really be clear here that we don't want parties to be hiring foreign agents and we don't want to have meetings with representatives of foreign governments trying to help one campaign over the other.

REPORTER: Have you spoken with the President about this in the past?

GRAHAM: Yes.

REPORTER: And what did he say?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Well, that is a first there, the first sitting republican lawmaker to answer for the President's comments, saying he would accept foreign help, foreign interference, in fact, in the U.S. elections. Senator Lindsey Graham saying, in simple terms, the answer should be no.

CNN's Sarah Westwood is at the White House there. Of course, you've covered this president for some time. Lindsey Graham, very close to the President, often -- most often comes out to support him, but breaking with the President here on this issue, and becoming, well, the first sitting republican lawmaker to do so.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Jim. Senator Graham is a national security hawk. And, really, what we are talking about is a national security issue, not only is it against election law to accept something of value, like opposition research from a foreign national.

[10:05:00]

But what the President is talking about really becomes an issue of election interference and of national security.

Senator Lindsey Graham joining a chorus of democrats who have been criticizing the President for his sort of remarkable admission that he would be open to accepting intelligence from a foreign national. The President said that he believes his own FBI Director is wrong when it comes to the FBI Director's prescription that if a foreign national does approach a candidate, that candidate should alert the FBI. Let's take a listen to what the President did actually say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Should he have gone to the FBI when he got that email?

TRUMP: Okay. Let's put yourself in a position. You are a congressman. Somebody comes up and says, hey, I have Information on your opponent. Do you call the FBI?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think, I mean, from what I'm going to do. TRUMP: I'll tell you what. I have seen a lot of things over in my life. I don't think in my whole life I've ever called the FBI, in my whole life. You don't call the FBI. You throw somebody out of your office. You do whatever you --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Al Gore got a stolen briefing book but he called the FBI.

TRUMP: Well, that's different, a stolen briefing. But this is somebody that said, we have information on your opponent. Oh, let me call the FBI. Give me a break. Life doesn't work that way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The FBI director says that's what should happen.

TRUMP: The FBI Director is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Now, the President seemingly tried to clean this up via Twitter this morning, saying he talks with all kinds of foreign leaders. He mentioned the Queen of England, the Prime Minister of Ireland, and they talk about everything. So he says, should I have call the FBI after every conversation that I have with a foreign national. Obviously, there's a huge distinction there between a conversation and an opposition research.

And the President also suggested that ABC News somehow edited his answer deceptively. But you saw for yourself what the President said just there. He has downplayed Russian interference in the 2016 election in the past, obviously, but the President here, Jim, confirming his opponents' fears that in the future he might be open to accepting opposition research by just saying it outright in that interview.

SCIUTTO: Well, he's also made up the editing comment before. You remember after the famous Helsinki moments, standing next to the Russian President, he said that the transcript got his comments wrong when it was very clear what the president said there. Call it up, you can see the video.

Sarah Westwood, thanks very much.

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham spoke out just moments ago saying it would be a mistake to take foreign help in election, foreign interference from the election. Manu Raju, you were speaking there to him. You asked him that question. It did strike me.

So this is notable because he's the first sitting republican lawmaker to call the President out on this. He did then go to this frequent talking point of saying the Steele dossier is the same. Of course, Steele is British, Britain is not a hostile foreign power that was then interfering in the election. Russia is different. But Tell us your reaction to his comments there and whether this is something the President will listen to.

RAJU: Yes. He was definitely trying to push back at what the President said, making it very clear that this is not the acceptable behavior. If someone were to come, a foreign government were to come and offer this kind of assistance, that you go to the FBI, he made it very clear, he agrees with what Christopher Wray said.

And when I asked if there should be legislation to make this -- to outlaw this kind of practice, he said, well, it's already on the books. But I'm willing to make it clearer on making sure that this is not appropriate or legal behavior, suggesting that it could be also criminal. Here's what he said just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: -- the President of the United States saying it's okay to accept foreign -- dirt from about an opponent?

GRAHAM: Now, I think it's a mistake. I think it's a mistake of law. I don't want to send a signal to encourage this. And I hope my democrat colleagues will be equally offended by the fact that this actually did happen in 2016 where a foreign agent was paid for by a political party to gather opposition research. All those things are wrong.

RAJU: Should there be legislation to make it expressly outlawed in this country?

GRAHAM: I think it already is, I think. But I'm willing to make it clear if we need to.

REPORTER: The President also suggested that you guys, members of Congress, would do the exact same thing by accepting foreign information.

GRAHAM: Well, I can only speak for myself. I've never had a government come up to me and say, hey, I'd like to help you in your campaign. The answer is no. It's got to be no. I mean, the likelihood of foreign interference is grow, not lessening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Senator Ernst, do you have any concerns about what the President said about potentially accepting foreign --

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I'm so sorry.

RAJU: So, hey --

SCIUTTO: If she hasn't seen what he said, she hasn't --

RAJU: Hey, Jim and Poppy. Senator Ernst, I'm trying to get reaction.

SCIUTTO: She hasn't read a newspaper or looked at her phone in the last 12 hours, so -- but Graham -- graham at least is sticking his neck out there.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. And Marsha Blackburn, who is also on this committee, a freshman from Tennessee, I just tried to ask her about the comments as well, the President's comment. She also said she is not familiar with those comments. I expect you may get some of that kind of reaction from republicans who certainly don't want to go after the President or -- maybe they haven't even though this has been dominating the news for the past 12 hours or so, as you said.

[10:10:05]

One other republican senator did offer pushback too. John Kennedy, the Louisiana Senator. He told me earlier that this is not -- if there is a foreign government coming and offering you this kind of information, you should go to the FBI.

So for -- I think you will start to see through the course of the day more and more republicans trying to break with the President, which is probably one reason why the President started to clean up those comments on Twitter this morning.

SCIUTTO: Well, and falsely clean up the comments, let's just say that. I mean, he was making a claim about what he said that's just frankly not true.

Manu Raju, great to have you. I know you're going to still be cornering republicans up there on the hill.

I'm joined by former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu, and from The New York Times, Congressional Correspondent Julie Hirschfeld Davis.

Shan, you're a lawyer. Is the law clear on this about accepting foreign help in the U.S. election campaign?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's crystal clear, Jim. I mean, Graham's statement that it's a, quote, mistake of law, it's not a mistake of law, it's illegal, and it's per se illegal. The situation originally with Don Jr. and Trump Tower is Mueller really laid out the requirements, and he could have been prosecuted, but they made a discretionary call. Don't want to go after the President of the United States' son. They didn't actually receive the information of value. But as to whether that fits the definition of the crime or not, that's textbook case, open-shut.

SCIUTTO: Julie, the President is doing now what he often does when he finds himself in a difficult moment. He's taking -- he's saying multiple contradictory things about the same thing. First, he said, actually, I was talking about just general conversations with foreign leaders, which, of course, he wasn't. You saw in the tape there, he's asked specifically about foreign help, dirt in a campaign.

Then he is saying that, well, the transcript got it right or ABC misedited it. And then he's saying, oh, but the democrats do this as well. I mean, all those things are contradictory here. Is that a satisfying message to his audience?

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Maybe to his audience, it is. I mean, I think in these instances and a lot of regards, he's just talking to his supporters and trying to give them something to hang on to as to why this is not an objectionable thing to say. I think it gets harder with a statement like this, A, because as you pointed out, it's all on tape, it's in an interview, everyone can watch it. And I would be shocked if anyone on Capitol Hill hasn't at this point, even if some of the republicans that Manu is talking to are saying that they haven't.

But I think part of the challenge for the President here is that, you know, this is a statement that it's going to be very difficult for even congressional republicans who are very supportive of him to defend. I think they're going to try to find, as you saw Lindsey Graham do just now, a way to make a distinction and to sort of throw the focus back on democrats and sort of this erroneous parallel between the Steele dossier and what the President seems to be talking about here.

But I think it's going to be difficult for republicans to answer this question. And I think we're going to see a lot of them try to avoid doing so. But, yes, in these situations, it's very common to see the President try to, A, throw it back at democrats, but, B, just tell people that they didn't actually hear what they heard.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's Orwellian, and we've seen it before.

Shan, we know that as part of the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in 2016 that the President's public comments became not just part of the investigation but were cited as some of the instances of investigative importance, including, for instance, the famous line in 2016, Russia, if you're listening, hack Hillary Clinton's emails.

I wonder just from an investigative perspective, a sitting president saying, hey, yes, I'm open to accepting foreign help. And, by the way, Jared Kushner said something similar in an interview a couple of weeks ago. Is that something that would, should be investigated on its own merits?

WU: I think it should be. And it really sends a very dangerous message to the world. And, really, when he's trying to talk to his supporters, it encourages a kind of lawlessness, really. He's saying, the only time that something is illegal is if I feel it is. And so that should be investigated.

And Congress really should take very clear action. It would seem like it would be a no brainer bipartisan to say let's enact the law right now that says you have to report those contacts. Make that mandatory ASAP.

SCIUTTO: Julie, you've covered this White House for some time, this administration. Is there anyone in the President's inner circle who would have his ear and tell him, you've got to definitively pull back on this?

DAVIS: I don't really think so. I mean, I think that there certainly may be people in the White House who privately will tell him to sort of back away from this, do not talk about it as much. But there's no one who can persuade him that, what Shan just said, is not, in fact, the case, that what really matters is what he thinks is an inappropriate or illegal and not what the law says or what, you know, have been the traditions of how the political process here works in the past.

And I think, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how -- what the reaction is on Capitol Hill and whether anyone on the Hill is able to persuade him that this is really an untenable position for them.

[10:15:01]

That has also not been the case in the past either. This is certainly something that has the potential to move the dial a bit, both for democrats and republicans.

SCIUTTO: And Graham is someone who has had the President's ear at times. We'll see if that makes a difference.

Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Shan Wu, thanks very much as always.

Breaking overnight, the Pentagon is now responding to a suspected attack on two oil tankers. Look at the damage there. Oil prices already jumping in response to this. It gets to concerns about supply, the world supply. We'll have the latest.

Plus, at least six arrests so far in the attempted murder of the Red Sox Legend, David "Big Papi" Ortiz. The seventh is still on the run, an update coming up from the Dominican Republic, where it took place.

And protesters in Memphis fill a neighborhood, throwing bricks and damaging police cars after U.S. marshals shoot and kill a man. At least two dozen police officers are injured. We're going to have the details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

SCIUTTO: At least two dozen police officers and two journalists recovering after being injured in clashes, sometimes violent ones, between police and protesters in Memphis. Crowds of people hit the streets, this after officers with the U.S. Marshals Service, not the local police there, shot and killed a man. Authorities have identified that man now as 20-year-old Brandon Webber.

Memphis Police not involved in that shooting, to be clear, but they were caught very much up in the tension. Police cars vandalized, some protesters throwing rocks at the officers, a lot of them injured this hour.

CNN Correspondent Martin Savidge has more details. Tell us the latest, not just on the injuries but on the state of tension in that neighborhood now following the shooting.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is North Memphis. This is an area called Frasier. And it's an area that's still this morning where emotions are very, very raw. This all began at 7:00 last night, local time, when, as you point out, U.S. Marshals were attempting to serve federal warrants on the 20-year-old suspect. He reportedly fled, got into a vehicle and then used that vehicle to apparently ram police cars and then, at one point, exited the vehicle, authorities say with a gun. And that's when he he was shot and killed.

In the immediate aftermath, there was a protest. People gathered on the street. And apparently amongst the protesters were some people who began picking up bricks and rocks and throwing them at police. That's how you had two dozen police officers that were injured. At least six of them injured seriously enough that they had to be taken to the hospital. And then you had two journalists as well.

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is now the organization that is basically doing the whole investigation here, TBI. This is looked upon as an officer-involved shooting here. And, initially, they'll be weighing heavily the statements by the officers that were involved.

What we don't know is what were the warrants for, in other words, what was this young man wanted for, and what kind of weapon did he have. The weapon is key here because authorities appear to be using this as justification for the fatal shooting in this case. And we haven't heard a description of what that weapon was.

And, understandable, people in the community are very upset what has played out, especially given the history and the debate across this country that continues about officer-involved shootings. Jim?

SCIUTTO: No question. Martin Savidge, thank very much.

The U.S. Military is in the Gulf of Oman right now, right next to the Persian Gulf, hours after two oil tankers attacked, severely damaged. Crude oil prices are up right now, worries about supply in that region. We're going to have more on that right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Good morning. All of us, when we take an oath of office, swear to protect the United States from enemies both foreign and domestic. The comments of President Trump yesterday were extraordinary even in a Trump world. We saw back in 2016 when then- candidate Trump basically invited Russia if they had any information to bring it into the campaign. Well, the Russians heeded his words and interfered in our electoral process in unprecedented ways.

Now, after the Mueller investigation, after our investigation, after the work of the Intelligence Community that made clear that Russia intervened in terms of weaponizing information, creating fake accounts in social media, trying to break into all 50 states' electoral systems, the fact that this president has so little moral compass or understanding of the need to protect our nation that he says he would still welcome information from Russia, China or any other potential adversary if it helps his political campaign is outrageous.

So a few weeks back, I introduced a legislation, the FIRE Act, that would require any presidential campaign if they were contacted our offered assistance from any foreign government or foreign entity, there would be an affirmative duty to report that to the FBI. Later today, I will go to the floor of the Senate and ask unanimous consent that this legislation be immediately brought up. I think it is absolutely essential that we send a message to our adversaries that intervening in our democratic process is against the law and not appropriate.

And my hope and prayer would be that someone in the White House would counsel Mr. Trump that he ought to recognize that foreign interference is beyond the pale in terms of honoring your obligation to protect and defend the United States.

RAJU: Senator, this morning, the President Tweeted that you should have contacted the FBI after being contacted by some hoaxter. What is he talking about?

[10:30:00]

WARNER: I don't have any idea. I think he's talking about actually something that happened with Mr. Schiff. But I would say this one.

END