Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

U.N. Investigator: Saudi Crown Prince Should Be Investigated; Four Charged With Causing Crash Of Plane; U.S. Navy: Mine Used in Tanker Attack Bears "Striking Resemblance" to Iranian Mine; NXIVM Leader Found Guilty of Sex Crimes. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired June 20, 2019 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[01:00:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everybody! Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM. Ahead this hour, new gruesome details of how journalists Jamal Khashoggi was killed. His body cut into pieces, stuffed into plastic bags, a special U.N. officials report says the evidence points to the involvement of the Saudi Crown Prince.

And both rebuffed by Trump, put together down in Pyongyang, but China and North Korea, the leaders sending a message they're all neighbors. They not -- they're not just neighbors, they're allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The people who brought down the dictator Omar Bashir are not about to go silently into the night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And CNN's reporting from inside Sudan as the military tries to violently crackdown on the growing protest.

Well, the allegation is old but the findings are new. A six-month- long U.N. investigation says the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi was a deliberate, premeditated execution and Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince should be investigated for it. And new details revealed the extent of the brutality of this hit job on a high-profile critic of the crown prince.

Here's one example. A comment from the forensics doctor who would dismember Khashoggi's body. Joints will be separated. It's not a problem. The body is heavy. If we take plastic bags and cut it into pieces, it will be finished. More details now from CNN's Nic Robertson.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The Special Rapporteurs report brings a new level of clarity, a new expansion if you will of the timeline of the things that were happening before Jamal Khashoggi was murdered sort of give credence to the premeditation that she says was involved in this extrajudicial killing. And she goes on to say that she believes that Crown Prince Mohammed

bin Salman does bear responsibility. And under international law it is her assessment that he you know, should be investigated for these crimes that these actions were carried out by state officials and therefore the members, the leading members of the state have a legal responsibility here.

But she said the most moving part or the most chilling part if you will was the fear that she felt was communicated in some of the conversations that she was hearing about Jamal Khashoggi as part of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AGNES CALLAMARD, SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON EXTRAJUDICIAL EXECUTIONS, UNITED NATIONS: So I was able to listen to some 45 minutes of tape not all of which are about the execution of Mr. Khashoggi. What those seven, ten minutes highlight. First, the increasing fear experienced by Mr. Khashoggi from the moment he enters and start realizing that something very bad is going to happen to the end.

So the fear is something that stays with me. Second is the fact that there is no attempt on the part of the individuals in the room to either resuscitate him or to do anything that will be -- that could demonstrate that his killing was accidental. As you know, the authorities -- the Saudis authorities have said, no they didn't intend. It was an accident.

There is nothing in the recording that indicate an accident. If there was an accident or accidental killing, you would expect people to you know, too say, my gosh something is happening. What do we do? Try to -- try to resuscitate him. Try to do this, try to do that. There is nothing of that nature.

So what the recording indicates is rather something fairly planned, not easy, but something that goes as probably it was planned and prepared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Well, the Saudi Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Adel al-Jubeir has come back at this report very hard. It's very clear the Saudi Arabia believes that its position is strong on this, that they are pushing back. He says that the Special Rapporteur lacks credibility and that they push back on this notion that the Crown Prince, that the leadership in Saudi Arabia is -- should somehow be investigated for this.

And he goes on to say that this is an effort to try to take the jurisdiction away from Saudi Arabia. This is something they've been very clear about that they believe they have jurisdiction to try the people that they say are responsible. 11 people have been put on trial so far and the Special Rapporteur now names them.

We know that two of those who face the death penalty are the man who became known as Dr. Bonesaw, Dr. Tubaigy, the forensic doctor, and also the leader of the team, the so-called hit team that went to Istanbul and went to the consulate there and led the group that killed Jamal Khashoggi. Those two both facing the death penalty.

What appears to be the case, however, the reality is that this report while it gives a comprehensive assessment, it doesn't appear to be set to move the dial despite the fact that it calls for the trial in Saudi Arabia to be ended, that despite the fact that it calls for its investigation of the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, despite the fact that it calls for sanctions to be replayed -- to be placed on the Crown Prince, it doesn't seem to be moving the dial in terms of changing the current situation and bringing about an international prosecution of those she feels responsible. NIC Robertson CNN London.

[01:05:41] VAUSE: To North Korea now. Chinese President Xi Jinping arrived a short time ago for talks with Kim Jong-un. It's been 14 years since the Chinese president traveled to North Korea. This state visit is intended to reaffirm Beijing's traditional role as North Korea's closest ally. CNN's Paula Hancocks with us again this hour from Seoul in South Korea.

So Paula, into the days of Chairman Mao, the China and North Korea relationship was described as being as close as lips and teeth. Not quite lips and teeth in recent years that right now it seems both countries has their own reasons for a closer relationship and the common factor here is Donald Trump.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it. Yes, John. It's true both have something to gain by this summit and both have a message to send not just to Donald Trump but also to the rest of the world.

Now this meeting, this summit of Xi Jinping going to Pyongyang is according to many people very overdue. It has been 15 months since North Korean leader Kim Jong-un invited him when he first went over to China. He accepted the invitation. But there have been four meetings between these two leaders since. All of them have been in China.

So certainly there's a sense that this is long overdue and the timing is interesting. It comes just a week before Xi Jinping goes to the G- 20 in Japan. He is expected to meet with the U.S. president Donald Trump. And of course, they have the backdrop of a very bitter trade dispute. It's a way of Xi Jinping reminding Washington and the world that he is pivotal when it comes to this North Korean issue and when it comes to what Kim Jong-un can gain from this. I mean, it's a -- it's a propaganda coup.

The fact that you have the leader of China for the first time in 14 years coming to Pyongyang, it is an official endorsement of Kim Jong- un's regime, of Kim Jong-un's North Korea, of the policies that he has in place.

And you also have that op-ed that that Xi Jinping wrote on the front page of the North Korean state-run newspaper Rodong Sinmun, very unusual in itself saying that he did support Kim Jong-un in his policies specifying he supported his economic policies rather than his nuclear ones. So certainly it's a very powerful tool domestically for Kim Jong-un to have as well.

VAUSE: Paula, Thank you. Paula Hancocks live for us in Seoul. I appreciate it. Four suspects have been named in a Dutch-led investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 five years after the plane crashed in Eastern Ukraine killing all 298 passengers and crew.

It's not clear whether the three Russians Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinsky, and Oleg Pulatov along with the Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko will ever appear in court. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Dutch police and prosecutors have a long time unveiled slowly this forensic case they have about what exactly brought MH-17 out of the sky back in July 2014. And they have today named four individuals who they say were essentially part of this murder plot so to speak.

They don't say these men were in fact involved in pushing the button that brought the plane down but they were the chain of commands so to speak between Moscow, the Russian Federation, where this quite advanced anti-aircraft missile, the BUK originated from that helped bring it into Eastern Ukraine and ultimately be used in this particular incident,

They named them as Igor Girkin. He's a well-known separatist figure from their Donetsk People's Republic, the separatist movement as they like to call themselves. Sergey Dubinsky, Oleg Pulatov and Leonid Kharchenko. And Mr. Kharchenko is the only one of those who's not a Russian, who's thought to be in Russia at the moment. He a Ukrainian, still thought to be in separatist-controlled Eastern Ukraine.

Now, that's key because Russia doesn't extract its own citizens so it's highly unlikely these three will, in fact, find themselves in the secure court facility in March of next year when this trial finally gets underway.

Police and prosecutors were relatively apologetic when they couldn't provide all the details as to how they'd come to this particular conclusion saying that has to be laid out in front of a judge. But they did appeal to Russian officials to conduct interviews for them and for further witnesses to come forward and try and give them more details about what precisely happened.

In fact, Ukrainian authorities say there they will try and arrest Mr. Kharchenko who still thought to be in Eastern Ukraine. But it's tingly enough, the prosecutors also played a number of tapped phone calls from that time, one between a senior Kremlin aide talking to a senior member of the separatist movement promising essentially the military reinforcements were on their way.

They wanted better missiles basically and the BUK anti-aircraft missile is exactly that. Really the Dutch here trying to lay the blame towards the Russian state itself but also saying they still have to get the evidence together to work out who precisely press the button on that particularly ugly day in July 2014. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN London.

[01:10:33] VAUSE: And so this is where we are in 2019. A U.N. investigation all but accuses the Saudi Crown Prince of ordering a barbaric hit job on a high-profile critic living in self-imposed exile and three former Russian officials and a Ukrainian acting on orders from Moscow during Russia's proxy war with Ukraine are charged with the mass murder of almost 300 innocent people.

All of this brings new weight to old allegations and what will be the consequences for these two high-fiving pals. Hello MBS and Putin, be made to account for their crimes which are as brazen as they are egregious.

When it comes to international bad behavior, there is no greatest serial offender than North Korea. The rogue regime violates U.N. sanctions daily. And according to one think tank, over the past year, its nuclear stockpile has increased from as many as 20 warheads to 30 and the price paid for such defiance, a state visit to North Korea from the President of China promising a grand plan and closer relations than ever.

To help us understand how all this is happening we're joined now by CNN National Security Analyst and Washington Post Columnist Josh Rogin. Hey Josh, good to have you with us.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Great to be here.

VAUSE: OK, to be fair, it's never been easy to hold autocrats and dictators accountable, units for crimes against humanity. But it seems in the past there was at least an effort or at least a common held belief of what is right and what is wrong. You know, there's this growing mountain of evidence and regardless of who the violator may be, it's like you know, they were hit with a wet piece of lettuce.

ROGIN: Well, I think there's one really good reason why this attempt -- these attempts to enforce international laws customs and norms have fallen off in recent years and that's because of the change of government the change of minister here in Washington where I sit. The Trump administration and President Trump himself have repeatedly insisted that the United States is not going to get out of the human rights enforcement business.

They've preached sovereignty and they've cozied up to dictators and defended monarchies especially the Saudi monarchy and also made outreach to the Russian government. And this is part of a calculation not only by President Trump but also many of his senior officials that advocacy on behalf of human rights enforcement of international law, international norms, and international customs is no longer the business of the United States government.

So while you have all these international bodies who've been trained for all of these decades on the idea, the American -- originally American idea I would argue, that the international system can hold international crimes accountable. Right now the biggest and for serve that the United States is asleep at the wheel.

VAUSE: Yes. I want you to listen to the chief prosecutor in the MH17 investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED WESTERBEKE, DUTCH PROSECUTOR: We now have the information have the proof that the Russian Federation is involved in this tragedy, in this crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Here's the response from Moscow. The Foreign Ministry issuing a statement which claims absolutely unfounded accusations are being made against the Russian side aimed at discrediting the Russian Federation in the eyes of the international community.

And here's Donald Trump when he was a presidential candidate in 2015.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's despicable, it's horrible, but they deny it totally, and they don't even say what was it, where it came from, nobody really knows. And I'm sure reports are going to be done. Maybe someday we'll find out. But right now Russia is totally denying it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, the pattern is pretty clear. A credible accusation with evidence, unsubstantiated denial with a little bit of what about- ism. And Donald Trump comes in to muddy the waters at the end.

ROGIN: Yes. It's very clear that President Trump is either uninformed or uninterested in holding Russia accountable for this crime or Saudi Arabia accountable for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi or any other number of things that traditionally the U.S. president would want to have a say on and would want to weigh in on.

There's also something else going on. Russian, and Saudi, and Chinese, and other authoritarian regimes have stepped up their information campaigns, have stepped up their propaganda campaigns and have stepped up their interference campaigns in the media environments of free and open societies.

And to the point of that is not to convince us that their line is true. Of course we know Russia has troops in Eastern Ukraine. We know that they're linked to this a crime and they -- we've always known that. The idea is to muddy the water. And the fact that the President of the United States is helping them muddy the waters is unfortunate at the very least.

VAUSE: OK. And again, the other -- you know, the other big story here is the U.N. investigation into the hit job on Jamal Khashoggi. Here's the U.N. official who oversaw that. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[01:15:09] CALLAMARD: The killing of Mr. Khashoggi was a stint killing, that the killing -- and the circumstances of the killing meant that a number of other violations took place, including violations of international law, for which the state of Saudi Arabia is responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And here is the pushback from the Saudis, tweeting, the report of the rapporteur contains clear contradictions and baseless allegations challenging her credibility.

And again, here is the U.S. President to run interference in the statement from November last year, he says, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And they have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran.

You know, and this pattern just repeats itself over and over again. Ultimately, though, what is the price here? That, you know, for the president of the United States, for the United States, I guess, you know, for the world community, when you have, you know, the most powerful country in the world, covering for murderous dictators?

ROGIN: Well, Jamal Khashoggi, as you know, was a colleague of mine at the Washington Post. And ever since he was brutally murdered in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, we have all been trying to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

And today, we learned a lot of new facts about that. We learned, according to this report, that the murder was premeditated. It wasn't decided on the spot. That it was planned, and that it was authorized, that there was an extensive cover-up and extensive destruction of evidence.

And all of this reinforces the idea, although, not the proof, but the strong contention that the Saudi regime led by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, was actively involved and that, in fact, Mohammed bin Salman was aware and approved of this murder, OK?

And the fact that the Trump administration has no intention of following those facts where they lead, standing up for the principle of let's just figure out what happened and hold those who are responsible, accountable, sent a chilling effect.

All dissidents, all human rights leaders, all journalists, frankly, who are working in oppressive, risky, dangerous conditions to bring true information, to speak truth to power and to comfort the afflicted, that it has a cascading effect around the world and undermines America's credibility when it does seek to wag a finger on human rights in places like Iran, Venezuela and North Korea.

So, overall, it's a tragedy for Jamal Khashoggi's family, for journalists, and for the reputation of the United States, abroad.

VAUSE: You know, let's just finish up with North Korea, because we heard more than a year of this illusionary diplomacy breakthroughs that Donald Trump keeps talking about, which is essentially for domestic political consumption. And reality is, he has produced nothing of substance.

But, in fact, what we are seeing now his visit to Pyongyang, a state visit, it's proof that, you know, once the U.S. president engaged with the North, they talked about this great progress being made in denuclearization.

That gave license to China and to others to back off from those international sanctions, the maximum pressure campaign which was, in fact, having some success, and now, that's gone. It really seems to be game-set match, North Korea.

ROGIN: I would say it's not over yet. My sources tell me that the fact that President Xi and Kim Jong-un are meeting, is seen as an indication inside the U.S., a government that Kim may be preparing to return to talks, that's not to say that those talks are going to be fruitful.

Also, there's an understanding inside the U.S. government that maximum pressure is not happening through the Chinese and Russian lack enforcement, but they are enforcing somewhat, and there's -- it can always get worse. So, there are a lot of things at play here, right now.

Most of all, we are waiting to see if Kim Jong-un is going to come back to the table, and if so, if he's going to have a different offer than he had at the failed summit in Hanoi.

If that doesn't happen, or if a third summit happens and fails, at that point, I think we can say that the game is over and the United States will have to consider other options. And all of those options have severe risks, including the risk of a war with North Korea.

VAUSE: Yes. You know, the world has changed so much in the last couple of years. It's hard to keep up with, you know, where we're at, at the moment. But, in many places, it's not good. Josh Rogin --

ROGIN: Not at all.

VAUSE: Appreciate it.

ROGIN: Anytime.

VAUSE: Next up on CNN NEWSROOM, the race to number 10 seems to be playing out just as expected, Boris Johnson holding onto his frontrunner status, so what comes next, after this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have beaten, threatened to be raped, being called sluts, this is too much.

VAUSE: And a look at those protests in Sudan, as more and more women stand up to the country's military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) VAUSE: Now, to escalating tensions between the U.S. and Iran in the Gulf of Oman, U.S. Navy says a mine, allegedly used in an attack on a Japanese oil tanker, has a striking resemblance to mines on display during military parades in Tehran.

The Iranians deny any involvement and blamed the U.S. And an Iranian admiral, though, has spoken out, warning the U.S., it's time to back down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADMIRAL HABIBOLLAH SAYYARI, DEPUTY COORDINATOR, ARMED FORCES OF IRAN (through translator): If we would be afraid of their military equipment, we would not be here anymore. All the greatness they ascribed to themselves is worth nothing to us, because a nation that believes in martyrdom cannot be enslaved.

We don't want war with anyone, but this is our region and others should not be in it. This region's natural resources and all its benefits are ours. What are others doing in this region?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Those comments come just a day or so, after the U.S. announced it's deploying 1,000 more troops to the Middle East. That is raising concerns of potential military confrontation with Tehran.

It's down to four now, in the race to replace Theresa May as U.K. prime minister. Conservative MPs gave the frontrunner, Boris Johnson, another victory in a third ballot. Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove and Sajid Javid also made it through, while Rory Stewart was knocked down.

The field will be whittled down again to two, on Thursday. Then, Conservative members will have their final say with the results declared by the end of July.

Well, India is enduring one of the longest heat waves in its history. And along with that heat, there is severe drought as well, and has left a parched landscape, nationwide. The soaring temperatures are blamed for 126 deaths in the city of Chennai, after 5 million people are dealing with a shortage of water.

The city's four reservoirs are nearly dry. And this is what one lake, a major water source for the city look like, back in 2018. Take a look now at what looks like at the present point in time, this, in just one year. By some estimates, 21 major Indian cities will run out of ground water by 2020, just next year.

The self-help company NXIVM has been found guilty of sex trafficking, racketeering and a host of other crimes. Prosecutors say Keith Raniere pressured women to have sex with him, blackmailed them, and branded them with his initials. CNN's Jean Casarez has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For six weeks, jurors have been given a glimpse into the world of the cult-like group, NXIVM, hearing graphic testimony from women who say they were manipulated and coerced into sex with a man now on trial in New York Federal court. NXIVM founder, 58-year-old Keith Raniere, was the lone defendant on trial, after his co-defendants engaged in plea deals.

[01:25:07] He was charged with seven counts, including racketeering and sex trafficking. He pleaded not guilty to all counts and did not testify in his own defense. His attorney said he denies any wrongdoing and argued his relationships were consensual.

KEITH RANIERE, FOUNDER, NXIVM: I'm an interesting person, I'm a controversial person --

CASAREZ: NXIVM was an Albany, New York-based company that sold pricey classes, claiming to help students improve their lives and achieve success. Students in the classes were encouraged to move to the Albany area. They formed a community around Raniere, who was known as Vanguard, and pretended to live a monk-like existence.

Prosecutors said only a small group within the community knew that Raniere was allegedly having sex with dozens of women, some of whom were coerced into having sexual relationships with him. In 2015, Raniere formed a secret group within NXIVM, called DOS. DOS was pitched as being a woman's mentorship group, but in reality, Raniere was not mentoring anyone, prosecutors said.

The group was made up of women who were masters and slaves. Testimony in court revealed they were sworn to secrecy about the group, by giving what they called, collateral, damaging pictures and information about their lives that could be released publicly, if they spoke out against NXIVM.

The women were coerced into being branded by their masters, prosecutors said, but they had no idea they were actually being scarred with Raniere's own initials. Raniere was heard discussing the branding ceremonies in audio, played in court.

TEXT: And the person should ask to be branded, should say, please brand me it would be an honor. And they should probably say that before they're held down, so it doesn't seem like they're being coerced.

CASAREZ: Raniere was originally charged with five other women, all high-ranking members of NXIVM. But each of the women entered guilty pleas before the trial started.

Co-defendants include Smallville actress, Allison Mack, who pleaded guilty to racketeering and racketeering conspiracy charges, and Seagram's liquor heiress, Clare Bronfman, who pleaded guilty to fraudulent use of identification, visa fraud and harboring an undocumented immigrant.

Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) VAUSE: Well, he swore an oath to uphold the U.S. constitution, so why is Donald Trump hinting he might not honor the 22nd Amendment? That's next on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:30:07] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

I'm John Vause with the headlines this hour.

A U.N. investigation says there is sufficient, credible evidence that the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has responsibility for Jamal Khashoggi's murder and should be investigated. But the report does not draw any conclusions about the Prince's guilt or innocence. Saudi officials call the report nothing new.

Five years after Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine, international investigators have announced three Russians and one Ukrainian will be charged with murder. The flight was on its way to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it was shot out of the sky killing all 298 on board.

China's Xi Jinping making a rare visit to North Korea, the first by a Chinese president in 14 years. Analysts believe this trip could give Xi leverage in trade talks with the U.S. president when they meet at next week's G-20 summit in Japan.

U.S. House Democrats are threatening the former White House communications director Hope Hicks with legal action. She was called to testify Wednesday before the Judiciary Committee which is investigating obstruction of justice by President Trump. Administration lawyers though kept her from answering any questions about her time at the White House claiming she is covered by absolute immunity.

Hicks denied knowing about hush money payments during the campaign to silence allegations of extramarital affairs by Donald Trump.

Well, the Trump administration seems to have no problem ignoring the congressional role in executive oversight. Subpoenas are also ignored, warnings of contempt charges mean little, and now there are growing concerns the President may simply ignore the results of the 2020 vote if it's close and doesn't go his way.

On Tuesday, he launched his official reelection bid in Florida. And amid all the old grievances from 2016, this one statement seemed to stand out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This election is not merely a verdict on the amazing progress we've made, it's a verdict on the un-American conduct of those who try to undermine our great democracy and undermine you. This election is a verdict on whether we want to live in a country where the people who lose an election refuse to concede and spend the next two years trying to shred our constitution and rip your country apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Well, will he stay or will he go? For more on that we're joined now by Siraj Hashmi, commentary writer at the "Washington Examiner". Siraj -- good to see you.

SIRAJ HASHMI, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Good to see you too -- John.

VAUSE: Ok. We just heard from the President at his reelection launch in Florida on Tuesday. And a few days earlier, the conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan seemed quite prescient. He wrote this. "Trump is deliberately undermining public confidence and the integrity of the electoral process. He will do anything, we have to understand, to protect his psychic attachment to his own self-interest. He will not leave his office if he narrowly loses in 2020. He will fight and rally his supporters to fight with him. He's not Nixon, he's Erdogan," as in in Turkey's President Erdogan. When since becoming president, has Trump conceded anything?"

And this is a White House which time and time again has continued to, you know, defy not just the law but tradition and process and challenge procedure. You know, why is it unlikely that Trump won't dispute the vote count and call it rigged and refuse to leave?

HASHMI: The one thing about Donald Trump is that his ego usually comes first. And I just say that as someone who is trying to play it, you know, fair when it comes to covering President Trump.

I will say though that it's a little bit interesting and kind of ridiculous that we're talking about whether Trump will leave office should he lose in 2020. It's sort of putting the cart before the horse because Democrats, they pretty much had it in the bag in 2016 and then Donald Trump came through and just took it away from them.

So Democrats have to focus first on winning and then they could decide whether Donald Trump is going to leave office. But I feel like he will honor the tradition of the peaceful transfer of power because he does at least in some ways value the traditions and parts of the office of the presidency that will allow him to do that. I think it's probably a safe bet that he would leave office if he lost.

I think one of the reasons why it's out there is because of the President's own words. Like this tweet, complaining about the "New York Times" and the "Washington Post" over the weekend. He included a rhetorical question about the people asking him to stay longer and by the people I think he really means his supporters.

And there's also the President's former lawyer Michael Cohen who also raised concerns over a peaceful transfer of power. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Given my experience working for Mr. Trump I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. And this is why I agreed to appear before you today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:35:02] VAUSE: Most presidents live in a bubble, this one lives in a hermetically-sealed flask, you know. And so, you know, you said he will leave and honor the traditions if he thinks he's lost. But you know, in his world where there's only cheering supporters, you know, if he loses the election. And he believes that it was rigged because of all these showing (ph) supporters and because that's how his world view is. He could genuinely believe that the results were rigged and stay put?

HASHMI: There's a certain -- there's definitely a possibility that he will. And it's probably a strong likelihood that he would question the results of the election. Whether he wins or loses and he did it in 2016. And he trotted out this number that there was somewhere between 3 million to 5 million undocumented immigrants who voted in the election and he said pretty much they all voted for Hillary Clinton. They certainly didn't vote for Trump and that was the claim. But of course, it's kind of really difficult to fact check that.

But if we are looking here at this, it would take some convincing I'm sure to try to get Trump to stand down in terms of saying some of these things about not leaving office or staying longer when he's not supposed to.

But I think what we have to remember here is that for Trump there's almost an exit strategy or just strategy for everything that makes him look out like the good guy. And when it comes to leaving office should he lose in 2020, if he goes down defiantly, at least -- at the very least the supporters will say at least he went down swinging.

VAUSE: You know, you raise this issue about, you know, Donald Trump and the administration questioning the results of 2016. That went on for quite some time.

Here Sarah Sanders the White House spokesperson here raising the issue and casting some doubt on the vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President still strongly feels that there was a large amount of voter fraud and attempted to do a thorough review of it. But a lot of the states didn't want to cooperate and participate.

We certainly know that there were a large number of instances reported but we can't be sure exactly how much because, we were unable to conduct the full review that the President wanted because a number of states did not want to cooperate and refused to participate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, there were investigations and all came out, you know, eventually that you know, there wasn't really any vote fraud which happened. But you know, was this a genuine investigation? Or was this just part of Donald Trump's ego because he lost the popular vote which seems to be, you know, sort of the popular thesis out there?

HASHMI: It could be. I mean the thing is, with respect to this idea of putting out this narrative that there was a massive voter fraud and it went against him and not his opponent because he lost the popular vote by about thee million votes. I mean that could be something that he just wants to do because of his ego.

Obviously I can't get into the mind of Donald Trump and say whether he defensively did something or told his press people to do something. Because he wanted to basically make them stroke his ego.

I will say this though, and this is just something that I've seen on both sides is that this idea of, you know, making sure that they're doing investigations just to say they've done them and then getting push back from say states that didn't want to participate in this voter fraud investigation, is really just a way of trying to say because it's inconclusive and because people didn't want to participate or work with the White House it's sort of solidifies Trump's power and sort of makes him a victim in the eyes of his supporters.

VAUSE: One issue though, you know, the authority of congressional oversight of the executive is contained with in Article One of the constitution. It's not explicit but it is implied. Also written in the constitution is the 22nd Amendment, so this is long term.

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice." And again, you know, if Donald Trump wins a second term, and we're looking at the end of that second term if the President and his Republican allies in Congress are willing to ignore Article One why wouldn't they feel free to ignore the 22nd Amendment as well?

HASHMI: That's a good question. I think there have been running jokes on the Internet that Trump would basically tear up the constitution and be President forever. The Republicans have had this too when Obama was president that he would, you know, basically tear up the constitution as well and basically be president forever.

That seems to be the general worry about -- from the opposition regardless of who is president because they simply just don't want that person to be in power for more than two terms let alone more than one turn or in the case of Trump at all.

So it's just one of those things where I don't think Republicans -- he might see a few Republicans get on board with saying hey Trump should be president forever. But it will only be like a few handful there. There are going to be many Republicans who respect the rule of law, respect the constitution in addition to the Democrats who would basically say no to that.

VAUSE: Yes. Look, this -- all these issues are like well, that wouldn't happen, it couldn't possibly happen and what we've seen sort of you know -- well, these things have kind of happened as time has passed. And you know, what was considered you know, almost impossible or outrage just is now almost like the normal.

[01:50:08] But Siraj -- we'll leave it there. Thanks so much. Good to see you.

HASHMI: Thank you -- John.

VAUSE: Always a bit of a laugh when there's a little argy-bargy breaking out of the ballpark. Not so funny though when it's the parents throwing the haymakers in front of the kids like this base- brawl in Colorado.

A seven-year-old boy stood by and watched as the adults set a really bad example. All apparently started when one parent objected to a call by the umpire. The umpire being a 13-year-old.

Police say there were injuries and a few citations with disorderly conduct. And they're now looking for the man in the (INAUDIBLE) shorts, right there.

Hey parents -- it's time to grow up.

Still to come, a bleak warning to a young girl sold into slavery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person told me (INAUDIBLE) will never come back for you. Your parents sold you. You're going to stay here forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Ahead in our "Freedom Project", an update of how things have changed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Well, Sudan has seen an ongoing widespread violence since longtime dictator President Omar al-Bashir was ousted from power. Protesters want the military council which took over from Bashir to be replaced by a civilian government. And they continue demonstrations even in the face of a violent crackdown by the military.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is there. He filed this report but it comes with a warning. His report contains some graphic images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Chanting "civilian, civilian" the protestors come out at night, demanding an end to rule by the transitional military council which on the 3rd of June dispatched soldiers to break up a long running city outside army headquarters (INAUDIBLE).

This noisy march through the dusty streets of Omdurman (ph), Khartoum's sister city, is an act of courage and defiance. (on camera): The people who brought down the old dictator Omar al-

Bashir are not about to go silently into the night. But there is a new would-be dictator lying in wait for them.

[01:45:05] (voice over): Much has changed in Sudan since al-Bashir stepped down, but much remains the same.

In Khartoum the government organize rally of village leaders, musicians were the warm up act with the main attraction. General Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo known here simply as Hemedti, is number two in the ruling military council. He commands the Rapid Support Forces, the men who broke up the city.

Hemedti rose to prominence as a leader of the Janjaweed, regime-backed tribal fighters during the war, the International Criminal Court describe it as genocide in Darfur more than a decade ago.

On this occasion however, speaking to a receptive audience, he stressed security and stability, favored themes in the Arab world by the guardians of the old order. Mu'mun Ahamd is trying to overthrow that order.

"I saw more than 60 people either injured or killed," he recalls from the day Hemedti's troops attacked the sit-in.

Video he shot on his phone that day shows just how intense the (INAUDIBLE) was. A bullet hit the hand holding his phone, another smashed into his leg.

Doctor Sulima Sharif (ph) runs a trauma center, and says she knows at least seven women raped by soldiers on June 3rd. Other women protestors were abused as they fled.

DR. SULIMA SHARIF, AHFAD TRAUMA CENTER: They had been beaten, threatened to be raped, been called sluts -- this is too much.

WEDEMAN: The military council denies any rapes took place.

Ja'afar Hassan is the leader of the Forces for Freedom and Change, the coalition fighting for civilian rule.

"The military council is trying to abort the revolution," he warns. "We won't allow that to happen because this is revolution of the people."

People who against the odds refused to be silenced.

Ben Wedeman, CNN -- Khartoum.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Back in 2011, we told you the story of a young girl in Taiwan sold into slavery. She spent 15 years waiting day and night for her family in southern California. The story showed how modern day slavery crosses international borders and extends into affluent neighborhoods. And as Martin Savidge reports her life has changed dramatically in the past eight years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It a typical day for Shari Ho (ph), at home caring for a group of children. Ho runs a licensed day care center in Orange County, California.

SHARI HO: That's what I like to do. I play with them and have fun with them.

SAVIDGE: Play is an important part of the day perhaps because her own childhood was spent working as a slave.

HO: The person told me your mom (ph) will never come back for you. Your parents sold you. You're going to stay here forever.

SAVIDGE: Ho says desperate poverty in her native Taiwan in 1990 forced her parents to sell her for about $300. She was seven years old.

For more than 15 years Ho worked for a wealthy family , first in Taiwan, then later when her captors moved to the U.S. In that time, she says she was subjected to daily mental and physical abuse. Cleaning, cooking and caring for the family. Sleeping on the floor. eating the family's discarded leftovers in a corner of the kitchen.

Ho says once when she was accused of stealing a sip of tea, a woman in the home dragged her by her hair to the bathroom where she put a toilet brush into the child's mouth and twisted.

And 2005 at the age of 23 Ho summoned the courage to escape. A woman who worked near the family store noticed something wasn't right. She encouraged her to call her if she ever needed help. Ho did and they coordinated the time to meet in front of the house where she ran in his waiting car.

[01:50:04] Special agent Mark Spiedel (ph) of Homeland Security Investigations worked closely with Ho in the days that follow.

MARK SPIEDEL, HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS: When I first met Shari she was very fragile, very frightened and concerned, scared. As she has mentioned she wasn't sure who to trust because this had gone on for so many years. I knew that we had to handle her, you know, in a very delicate manner.

SAVIDGE: No criminal charges were brought against the family. But Ho has settled a civil lawsuit with them.

When CNN first reported her story in 2011, Ho was just learning how to ride a bike, read and use money -- every day skills she had never been taught living as a slave. Her one wish back then to find her mother.

SAVIDGE: You want to find her?

HO: Yes.

SAVIDGE: And what would you say when you found her?

HO: If I find her I say Mom, I love you so much. I just want to find you.

SAVIDGE: The CNN story sparked a media storm in Taiwan and its foreign minister helped Ho locate her family. This was the moment mother and daughter waited 20 years for.

HO: I feel hurt, confused and at first she told me I'm sorry and that everything happened to you. But I just told her that everything has passed. It's more important that I'm free, I'm happy and I'm able to see you and I can see you and see the family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there any part of this that maybe was scary to talk about?

SAVIDGE: With co-author Melody Fox (ph) Shari has written a book about her life called, "My name is Also Freedom". She hopes sales of the book will help her reach even higher. Expanding her day care center to include help for other survivors of human trafficking.

HO: I had a large dreams for my center. I want to help other survivors too to be able to go work. I just want to help other people.

SAVIDGE: A dream she works every day for, in hopes the next generation won't endure what had to those many years before.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: And the U.S. State Department will release its annual trafficking in person's report just a few hours from now. And to monitor and combat human trafficking, we'll have live coverage starting at 9:00 in the morning Washington time, not in the evening on Thursday. In Hong Kong, you can watch that right here on CNN.

Up next though on CNN NEWSROM, the (INAUDIBLE) numbers, the heartbreaking story and what it says about some of the countries -- one of the richest countries in the world. The plight of people who are forced to flee when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: More than 70 million people worldwide have left everything behind to escape war, persecution or terror. More than half of them are children. That's one in every 108 people on the planet forcibly displaced. Thursday is World Refugee Day, a moment to focus on a global problem which is only getting worse.

Here's CNN's Arwa Damon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Whether we label them as refugees, the internally displaced, asylum seekers or migrants, the number of people on the move is at a tragic new all-time high.

The world's forcibly displaced population, people torn from their homes has doubled in the last 20 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They caught him. They killed him.

DAMON: There are those whose homelands have betrayed them, whether it's war, violence, hunger or overwhelming poverty. The bitter and forceful emotions are shared. So too is the desperation and determination united by a common goal -- to get anywhere safer, anywhere better, no matter the cost, to just simply be able to live.

From Syria, which has the highest number of displaced to newer conflicts like Venezuela, the flood of despondent souls has touched in some way just about every continent. And yet in this twisted world, more borders are closing. Wealthy nations are shirking their moral and financial responsibilities. It is local host communities who are often showing the most generosity. According to UNHCR, 85 percent of the world's displaced people are being hosted in developing countries. In other words, not wealthy, not economically stable, not equipped.

Rich countries have significantly dropped resettlement places in the last few years according to Amnesty International, and in the words of the U.N.'s high commissioner Filippo Grandi quote, "The institution of asylum, one of the most ancient and shared gestures of solidarity in the history of humankind has been compromised and the language of politics is increasingly ruthless." But that has not quelled the floods of people literally walking, crossing seas and deserts.

Even as the numbers of those who need to be shown compassion, not cruelty are at record highs, the money just isn't there. The U.N. and its humanitarian partners emergency appeal is barely half funded.

Across continents, people are penned-up like animals, humiliated, abandoned. Others turned into political pawns. This will not end until the injustices that force them to flee are resolved. It will not end until we reclaim our collective humanity. And those who have the power to (INAUDIBLE) others pain find the morality to do it.

Arwa Damon, CNN -- Istanbul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Well for more on this displacement crisis please go to CNN.com. There you'll find more about the people who are forced to flee, their stories, where they come from where they go, those helping them and those turning them away. All at CNN.com.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause.

Stay with us.

The News continues. Up next -- Rosemary Church. Stay with us.

[01:57:48] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)